Morning Reads — Thursday, November 6, 2014

On this date in 1977, 39 people were killed when an earthen dam burst, sending a wall of water through the campus of Toccoa Falls Bible College in Georgia.


Jimmy Carter

Sweet Tea

Fresh out. 

Liberty Drum


  1. caroline says:

    I don’t see how the GOP governs. Are they going to sit down and work with Obama and then look at the people who voted for them and say sorry chumps we were lying to you about Obama or are they just going to do far right legislation that is going to be unpopular with the majority of Americans and just keep pumping it through the house and senate and having Obama veto it and drive up his approval rating because he’s keeping the crazy at bay?

    There were some real nut cases elected on Tuesday–people who think the UN is going to be flying black helicopters in the country and all kinds of nonsense.

    • androidguybill says:


      One thing that ideologues on both sides – the far left and the far right – have in common is this utter conviction that everyone except for “the crazies” agrees with them.

      Reality: 30%-35% of the population is liberal. 30%-35% of the population is conservative. The rest is in the middle.

      So no, they are not going to “sit down and work with Obama” to enact an agenda that is antithetical to both their own beliefs AND the beliefs of the people who voted for them. Any more than the Democrats who were elected in 2006 were inclined to “sit down and work with Bush.”

      Any legislation that they pass will be tempered by a Senate that still has not only enough Democrats to filibuster but a large number of liberal to moderate Republicans, so it will only be “far right” to the people who belong to your 30-35%. To the other 60%-65%, whatever actually gets through Congress will strike most people as imperfect but reasonable and the best that we are going to get under the circumstances, and Obama will only hurt the cause of the Democratic Party in 2016 by vetoing everything.

      You have to step out of the narrow issues that pass for pressing national crises in outlets like the Village Voice, the New Yorker, the Atlantic or and look at the bigger picture here: the economy is a total mess and the national debt is too. Those issues are the reasons why Republicans won even in progressive, diverse states like Colorado and Massachusetts two nights ago. Anything to deal with those issues that can pass a Senate where Bernie Sanders (who says that his goal is to lead our government towards the Scandinavian socialist model) is a member will be acceptable to the 65% of Americans that are to the right of you, and Obama will only hurt his own cause by vetoing it.

      • caroline says:

        Actually that is not what I saw in this election. The GOP has given Hillary a plethora of stuff to make fun of the GOP with. Joni Ernst with the Agenda 21 crackpottery etc. etc. David Perdue saying that only 2000 women weren’t paid the same as men. Well, that’s apparently not important to voters in GA but it is something she can use to define the GOP with. GOP candidates supporting crazy personhood even though it was massively voted down at the polls.

        I think it depends on what comes up from the house and senate as to whether he vetoes anything and if he signs anything wouldn’t that be seen as going along with Obama? And the shooting has already begun the minute Mitch said he was going to work with Obama. If the GOP is going to repeat what the house has done for four years then they are going to get booted in 2016 too.

        I think you are reading too much into a midterm election and you are advocating for GOP overreach. I don’t remember the Dems overreaching in 2006. The big accomplishment that i recall was taking the war funding and putting it in the budget instead of passing all those stupid supplemental bills that Bush was doing.

        And in Colorado the senate candidate pretended he wasn’t conservative. Most of them seemed to be running from conservative stances in their advertising etc. but had far right support on their website.

      • caroline says:

        I hate to tell you but I don’t read Salon, The New Yorker the Atlantic nor the Village Voice. I think you need to get off the talk radio and get out there and look at the issues that the average American is concerned about. People are concerned about the economy but what is the GOP proposing to do about it? They just said it was bad with no solutions or a repeat of Bush Economics. Pulling out the veto pen didn’t hurt Bill Clinton when the GOP passed radical stuff and Obama has nothing to lose at this point. Obama messed up from the beginning by trying to work with the GOP instead of using the Bill Clinton model of breaking their backs and then sitting down with them.

        • androidguybill says:

          Thank you Caroline for exhibiting exactly what I am talking about. Again, 65% of the country is to the right of you.

          • caroline says:

            I think you are out of touch with what the center is. And this is a huge problem for the GOP. And it has been a huge problem for the GOP. I live in Cherokee County so I deal with conservatives all the time. They think Obama should be impeached. They don’t believe that he’s even an American citizen. Is Cherokee County that far out of the mainstream of the GOP? Even look at issue polling which is really a better indication of anything.

          • caroline says:

            72% disapproval rate for the GOP. You are reading way too much into a midterm but it’s what I expected the GOP to do. It seems to be the trend.

          • drjay says:

            that may kinda be true in a vacuum, but according to your own numbers about a third of those are only a little to the right of her, and the gop will scare them and send them running right back into the arms of the other side if they roll with the crazy train in january and start impeaching people and shutting down the gov’t and such…

            • caroline says:

              You don’t assume that the 1/3 middle is with you in a midterm election unless you have the issue polls to back you up.

              According to the approval ratings for the GOP they need to move about 20 points to the left to get to the center on legislation. Will it happen? I guess we will see.

              Remember Newt thought he had a huge mandate too back in ’94 and he ended up helping Bill Clinton get reelected with the stuff he did.

              • androidguybill says:

                “According to the approval ratings for the GOP they need to move about 20 points to the left to get to the center on legislation.”

                And how far to the right do the Democrats have to go?

      • Andrew C. Pope says:

        agb & caroline

        Factors in favor of a right-leaning-but-still-kinda-moderate Senate
        1) McConnell is an institutionalist at heart. He’s someone who cares deeply about the image and integrity of the United States Senate, and I don’t think he’s going to do anything that risks making the organ look disreputable. If the House tilts at windmills by voting to repeal Obamacare, that’s fine, the House is expected to do dumb things.

        2) McConnell understands the political realities. Republicans have considerably more seats up in 2016. There are way more Republican-held battlegrounds (FL, IL, IA, WI, OH, PA, NC, NH) than Democrats (CO, NV). Additionally, you’ve got the potential for open races in four Republican held states (AZ, IN, KY, FL) depending on who retires (McCain and Coats) or runs for President (Paul and Rubio). If the Senate overreaches, these seats become a little less safe for their incumbents and risks of putting states like GA, SD, AR, and AK in play. So, I don’t think you’ll see McConnell challenging the President with legislation that would turn off the majority of general election voters.

        3) McConnell knows his caucus. Obama alluded to this in yesterday’s presser. McConnell has always been straightforward with him about what he can deliver and has never failed to deliver what’s been promised. McConnell has a very detailed knowledge of who will support which compromises, where people’s lines are, and what must be in a bill in order to get passage. If there’s anyone with the skill to line up the Republican votes necessary to pass needed legislation on immigration, healthcare reform, tax reform, etc. it’s going to be Mitch McConnell. On top of that, the lone advantage of not having a supermajority in this Congress is that, when compromise comes, he’ll be able to siphon Democratic votes to cover for inevitable loss of support from Cruz/Paul/etc.

        Factors in favor of a woah-these-guys-are-really-out-there Senate
        1) There are some really crazy people in there now. The rhetoric we’ve been hearing from Cruz, Paul, Moran, DeMint, Scott, Lee, and Rubio (although he’s become more moderate when it comes to immigration reform) sounds like something coming from the House. Add in three new very conservative Senators in Ernst, Perdue & Tillis, and you have considerably less room to work with when making compromises with President Obama. Cruz, Paul, and Rubio will all be preparing for what appears to be a bruising Republican primary campaign and will be trying to out-conservative one another in an effort to gain pole position. Ordinarily, I don’t think this would be a problem, but a) McConnell owes a huge debt to Rand Paul for pulling him through that KY race and b) Cruz has proven the only issue he cares about is Ted Cruz Awareness.

        2) President Obama has no motivation to cave. This is a Republican party that has spent 6 years refusing to work with the President on any issue, why shouldn’t he engage in the same behavior? He’s not up for re-election, he already has his legacy-building piece of legislation, still has the bully pulpit, and his favorables are still way better than those of Congress… the President can politically afford to veto to his heart’s content. Obama’s behavior isn’t going to taint Clinton, she’s far enough removed from him politically that people outside of Hannity and Limbaugh aren’t going to conflate the two. It will only hurt Democrats on the whole if Obama is vetoing bipartisan compromises or bills that aren’t blatant partisan dreck (examples: repealing/defunding/neutering Obamacare, McConnell’s promised personhood bill).

        • caroline says:

          Thank you for the reasoned response. Unless it’s a presidential election in my opinion you just don’t make a lot of assumptions that you have the majority of Americans with you. I have seen both parties make this mistake in the past though most recently it has been the GOP since they seem to win most mid terms these days.

          And I agree with what you are saying and I expect mostly gridlock too. See the article below I linked to and it talks about the elephant in the room being how long can McConnell keep the Cruz faction in line. It seems to be anybody’s guess at this point and Cruz apparently doesn’t care if he blows up the GOP’s chances in 2016 or not it would seem.

          • androidguybill says:

            “though most recently it has been the GOP since they seem to win most mid terms these days”

            The Democrats won the midterms in 1998 (which was huge) and 2006 (ditto). The GOP only won the midterms in 2002 because of September 11th. The Democrats also won the midterms in 1986, which pretty much ended the Reagan agenda. So … your recollection is what you desire it to be rather than what it actually is.

            • caroline says:

              Well, the GOP has held the house most of the time since 1994 and that is what I was thinking about. I do not remember the 1986 election so why would I mention that one? 1998 might have been huge but the GOP sure didn’t listen to what the voters were telling them.

  2. blakeage80 says:

    The article about the Charlanta left out the good part of becoming a megalopolis. It means less kudzu.

    • Andrew C. Pope says:

      I’d rather have a mountain of kudzu than another freaking strip mall. Keep this suburban sprawl away from my beloved Athens. It’s bad enough they built that new shopping center out on Epps Bridge.

      • blakeage80 says:

        The early stages of megalopolizing are painful. We will probably have to look at half filled strip malls for several more decades until they all become dialysis clinics and the like. When I think to the times I’ve traveled/lived in larger European cities, I think how miserable it would be to be surrounded by concrete all the time. Maybe we should start a movement to paint all shopping strips forest green or something. Also, whoever designed the Epps Bridge parking lot should be flogged.

    • androidguybill says:

      After vociferously denying that you read the sources that I cited, you listed a link from Andrew Romano, senior writer for the left-liberal advocacy journalism site “The Daily Beast.”

      Interesting thing: the guy is a feminist and also wrote for the LA Weekly, which is the Los Angeles counterpart to the Village Voice.

      Caroline, you are not what you claim to be.

      • caroline says:

        I have no idea who Andrew Romano is. And you didn’t say anything about reading yahoo. You were talking about other publications which I don’t read and since I don’t read Huffington Post I had no idea who he was. You’re not making a case against the article nor the facts contained in the article.

        • androidguybill says:

          I read his “facts.” They are not dissimilar from what is commonly written in the (center-left) mainstream media or in the further left opinion and advocacy media. What you seem to not be aware of is that only 35% of the country is pining for a Democratic president and a Democratic congress to enact a Democratic agenda. Which, of course, is my whole point.

          • caroline says:

            No, you’re making a big assumption not based on what is going on with the country. And you’re making a very big case for the GOP overreaching not based on issues or anything other than the GOP ran on Obama sucks. They are now talking about crafting an agenda AFTER an election. Seems crazy to me. Despite your complaints about Mr. Romano you’re doing a great job of making his case for him.

  3. androidguybill says:

    @caroline and drjay:

    It is funny. Because the mainstream media is center-left and the opinion media is further left (albeit not radical left) everyone who is left of center only talks about how the right scares centrist/moderate/independent voters. The idea that the middle finds the left, the Democrats, to be just as scary escapes them. Even when they do deal with it, they chalk it up to the middle being simply sexist, racist, fearful or otherwise unreconstructed and unenlightened.

    You see “They think Obama should be impeached” but are not even questioning whether the (for example) Ferguson flyer turned the race from being a slight GOP lean to a very solid 8 point victory. Did that flyer deeply offend some white voters? Did it even frustrate more traditionally-minded blacks and cause them to stay home? Another example in Colorado: the Democrats were planning on Hispanic voters to help them win that Senate race. But the candidate, Mark Udall, tried to make that race entirely about abortion. Guess what? Lots of Hispanic voters are pro-life, lots more are very conflicted about that issue and would rather not be reminded of it. So, Colorado did not get anywhere near the Hispanic turnout that they needed and Udall lost narrowly. This is not only my opinion. A major Democratic contributor warned Udall that he needed to focus on other issues than abortion:

    Again, thinking that all the nuts and extremists are on the other side is a clear indicator that your own views diverge from the mainstream. Like I said on another thread yesterday, Jody Hice is fine so long as the other side gets to have Barbara Boxer (and Boxer is a SENATOR, not merely a congressman). I should go ahead and add Bernie Sanders (again a SENATOR not a congressman) who is an independent because he regards the Democrats to be too conservative.

    • Andrew C. Pope says:

      You’re conflating Boxer/Sanders with Hice again. The issue with Hice isn’t his far-right policy positions (there are plenty of members of the House that align with him on those issues) its the fact he’s said openly homophobic, sexist, bigoted things and appears to show little remorse for them.

      As “out there” as Boxer and Sanders may be, none of them have claimed one of the world’s largest religions isn’t actually a religion and therefore shouldn’t have First Amendment protections. Neither of them have accused gays of having a shadow agenda to convert children to homosexuality. Neither of them have said women need their husband’s permission to run for office.

      You can say Sanders is crazy because he thinks the Scandinavians are a good model for governmental policies (having spent some time in Scandinavia, I can see his argument). But you can’t say that Sanders is a bigot. That’s the difference between him and Hice and that is why Hice is decidedly not “fine.”

      • androidguybill says:

        @Andrew C. Pope:

        Boxer and Sanders have said plenty of things that as are offensive to conservatives as Hice has that are offensive to you. The difference is that the people who take offense to the pronouncements of Boxer and Sanders get labeled bigots, extremists, misogynists etc.

        Liberals rarely see their own side as offensive. That is why, Talking Points Memo, the New York Times etc. all released opeds in support of that disgraceful Ferguson flyer (one example of many).

        • caroline says:

          The problem isn’t that Boxer is offensive to conservatives. The problem is people like Hice are offensive to almost everybody except apparently Republicans in GA.

          • androidguybill says:

            Again, you make my point. “The problem isn’t that Boxer is offensive to conservatives. The problem is that Hice is offensive to everyone but Republicans!”

            • caroline says:

              Well, isn’t that the truth? Put Jody Hice front and center in the house of representatives and see what the reaction is. I’m willing to bet that the only people that will think he’s great is the far right. His statements about women and everybody are so out of the mainstream. You apparently don’t even realize what is mainstream in this country. You don’t realize that Georgia is far right and you are looking at everything from the Georgia perspective not the national perspective.

    • caroline says:

      Well all I can say is I never heard of the ferguson flyer. Read the article I linked to. The GOP needs to triangulate and do a sister souljah on the tea party. Overall the GOP got the same percentage of the white vote they always get but this time they got more AA votes and Hispanic votes and Aisan votes which was enough to make the difference on Tuesday. Also voters were older which always seems to help the GOP. Udall’s problem was that he did just focus on the personhood thing but Gardner triangulated too running away from the right.

    • drjay says:

      the places i’m seeing “impeach obama” are on the threads of people i am friends with on fb. i think there are plenty of loons on the left i assure, and their going too far and frankly the presidents borderline incompetence pushed the mushy middle to the right this week, my fear is they will be pushed right back if all we get from the new majority is a bunch of craptastic investigations of every dept in the administration, and impeachment articles and gov’t shutdowns instead of some reasoned and reasonable legislation and reform that make the prez look like the ass if he doesn’t go along…i voted straight gop except for the libertarians running for psc…i want the gop to succeed, i fear they may embarass me, again…

      • caroline says:

        Well, I understood that one of the main things they planned was 1990’s era scandal mongering. We’ll see if that one pans out.

        But if the GOP proves they can’t govern over the next few months they are going to get the boot.

  4. Chamblee says:

    Jodi Hice won with 66% of the vote. The real question is, did he win with 66.6% of the vote? These are the questions we need to dive in to.

    Oh, and when Agenda 21 comes to pass, who will we elect as the 2nd Vice President?!

  5. caroline says:

    D approval 39% so they need to go 11 pts to the right GOP needs to go 28 points to the left so using those numbers the GOP needs to really compromise a lot more to get to the center.

  6. Jon Lester says:

    Rep. Andy Harris is clearly not part of the Liberty Caucus, and it would appear he doesn’t go to Union Station much, where you see so many winos camped out, but that link does touch on something I thought of yesterday; wouldn’t it be something of a hassle to always be looking out for federal LEO’s in DC? I guess the only real change will be that you won’t have to worry so much about smoking it at home or a trusted friend’s place.

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