No Woods Endorsement From Karen Handel; “Disappointing”

July 21, 2014 23:06 pm

by Charlie · 28 comments

Facebook is running ads from Richard Woods this evening claiming an endorsement from Karen Handel.  I was contacted by Karen this evening who indicates the ads are unauthorized and that there is no endorsement.  She has since posted the following on Facebook:

A quick message to my FB friends — while I did vote for Richard Woods for state school superintendent, I did NOT make a formal endorsement nor did I authorize the ad or the use of my photo. This is all very disappointing.

Candidates love to bend the truth at the 11th hour to get elected. In the age of the internet, there’s no reason to allow this to become an advantage. I look forward to canceling out Karen’s vote tomorrow when I vote for Mike Buck.  I hope you’ll consider joining me.

{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }

Ken July 21, 2014 at 11:33 pm

Sorry, Charlie. I already voted for Richard Woods and if I had not, then I would still do so tomorrow. While I wish this had not happened, I’ve known Richard for several years and I do not question his commitment to local control of schools or his conservative credentials.

The positions of Richard Woods and Mike Buck are far apart in important areas and I find myself agreeing with Richard in every one of those areas,

ryanhawk July 22, 2014 at 8:42 am

I don’t know Richard Woods though I’ve met him a number of times since he first started running for office. He seemed like a good guy — a lovable loser as it were — the first time I met him. He’s a little different this time around — more “polished” and playing to win. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

BJ Van Gundy July 22, 2014 at 9:48 am

This race is such a “Who cares?” race as both of these guys are establishment educrats that are more interested in protecting the status quo than truly fixing what it wrong with education in Georgia.

I’m against Common Core as well… but the fact is, Georgia ranked in the high 40s in education before CC, ranks in the high 40s with CC, and will rank in the high 40s after CC… Unless guys like this figure out that this is about improving the education of children and NOT about protecting the education establishment and bad teachers through tenure.

Neither of these guys is worth a warm bucket of spit when it comes to School Choice. I shall hold my nose and vote for the DOE outsider, Richard Woods.

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 11:50 am

Bj,

You should know that the ranking is very misleading….The suburban schools are actually ranked very high nationally especially in the northern part of metro Atlanta. I thought you were from the Collins Hill area, and you know they have one of the best high schools in the state.

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/GA/schools/0255000959/school.aspx

I would hope you would not be part of the crowd making politics out of education….I do think Charter Schools have a place and need ( you past association ie bias) …..but using a broad brush does not help the situation.

BJ Van Gundy July 22, 2014 at 12:19 pm

First of all I do not live in the Collins Hill area. I live in Peachtree Corners. Yes. I’m very satisfied with MY children’s schools. Not the issue. I’m not so selfish as to be content with MY schools being great and others being pathetic.

I have no idea what you are saying in your “making politics out of education” comment. Seriously. I don’t know what that means.

Lastly, I don’t know what “broad brush” I used.

Here’s a broad brush for you though: ALL schools should offer the same product. They don’t. The education establishment hides behind the truly racist position that bad schools are bad because they have bad students that aren’t teachable and that it can’t be blamed on the teachers. Hogwash. Studies have proven otherwise.

Here: http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news-impact/2013/01/study-teacher-performance-tied-to-student-achievement/

and Here: http://obs.rc.fas.harvard.edu/chetty/value_added.html

The biggest problem we have in public schools can best be tied to tenure. Private schools fire 9.6% of teachers annually for PERFORMANCE. Public schools fire 0.25% of teachers annually for PERFORMANCE.

This statistic begs the question: Do public schools simply hire better teachers from the outset or are public schools keeping bad teachers?

I think we both know the answer. The problem is that if those bad teachers were at MY children’s schools, with parents that are paying attention and participating in the education system, the bad teachers would be run out.

The education system, in order to avoid such controversy as parents not liking these bad teachers teaching their children put those teachers in schools where the parents aren’t paying as close attention or are unable to assess whether a teacher is providing a quality education to their child, i.e. lower income single parents struggling with maintaining a household, low education parents (who also tend to be lower income) and/or parents who simply are bad themselves.

The combination of bad or poorly equipped parents and bad teachers is a recipe for disaster and is what we have been doing in this country for the last 50 or so years.

It is this simple (and naive): One should not be in a situation of shopping for a home because of the school that your child will attend. It should be a function of proximity to employment and/or the environment that you wish to live in.

Unfortunately, even a school system like Gwinnett’s has 15 or 20 schools that I wouldn’t want my child going to. Not because of the demographics or economic situation around the school… but because of the poor skills of the teachers at that school to begin with.

I’m sick and tired of teacher worship. Just as their are bad employees in EVERY business and industry (OK. Maybe QuikTrip and Chik-Fil-A are exceptions) there are bad employees in the education industry.

Here’s a school digger for you:

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/GA/schools/0255001110/school.aspx

Same county. And don’t throw at me that because these children eat for free that that is the reason that the school is so poorly performing. Eating Free does NOT equal poor performance. It is an excuse for writing off these kids as unable to learn because they are low income. I GUARANTEE that if those exact same kids were put at Simpson elementary in the Simpson Elementary Culture of success they’d do significantly better… even given parents that are challenged (or simply bad). It’s because of the teachers that are at Simpson. They fight to keep a child from failing.

The teachers at schools like Rockbridge and Gwinnett County School Board simply use the excuse of “Free or reduced lunch” for a system that is failing the students…

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 2:37 pm

Bj,

…. Private schools fire 9.6% of teachers annually for PERFORMANCE. Public schools fire 0.25% of teachers annually for PERFORMANCE……

As someone who has used private and public schools…..a few facts you leave out. A good private school charges about 12k for elementary, 16k middle school and 20k for high school not including extras like lunch, donations…….as you know…More than we spend in public schools.

Good private schools only take the top 20% as you know….which is easier to find teachers for….like in the public schools…..Which is why most AP programs in north metro Atlanta perform as well as private schools when comparing the same aptitude students. One could argue public schools do better on dollar per dollar basis with the top 20% aptitude for 4 year college students….

In schools that under perform beyond social issues we have eliminated many vocational opportunities and instead went for a one size fit all No Child Left Behind 4 year college or out mentality, which by any measure made the problem worse…. Even in performing schools the same students are being left behind. BTW top private schools do not deal with the vocational kids who are trapped via ill thought out policy.

Finally, the biggest factor in education is that wealthier students do not fall behind like poor students in the summer via lack of stimulation of the brain. As a big player in the “Charter School” movement I would think you would know this? The most successful charter school in low incomes areas is a concept the teaches longer days 5.5 days a week and goes year round. But hey I am into facts not the politics…….

FACTS:

…Research has shown that students’ skills and knowledge often deteriorate during the summer months, with low-income students facing the largest losses…

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1120.html

…….2. MORE TIME If we want students to learn more we need to give them more time to learn, so we have a longer school day and a longer school year. In some districts, our students are getting 20% more instructional time than the local district schools…….

http://www.classyawards.org/exchange/how-a-charter-school-is-closing-the-achievement-gap/

BJ Van Gundy July 22, 2014 at 3:02 pm

John,

I remember why I don’t like engaging you. I too am into facts. I’m just not so rude as to be constantly insulting to you with suggesting that you don’t know things simply because something was left out… Your suggestion that I didn’t know about summer stimulation is put in a way that suggests that I’m somehow stupid for not mentioning it.

I gave plenty of facts. Not politics. Please describe how I was doing politics not facts in my tome above. Quit simply throwing out nastiness as a debating tactic and this could be interesting.

However. I know you can’t do that so I will stand by ALL of my comments above.

I will pick apart part of what you wrote above though. Factually. Not insultingly.

You start to address the issue of 9.6% of Private Teachers being fired… and then swerve into the fact that they tend to be able to hire teachers more easily and somehow that is related? I don’t even know what that has to do with 9.6% of them get fired vs. 0.25% of Public school teachers getting fired annually.

I would suggest two things (Stay on topic if you can and show how I’m wrong about these):

1) that because Private schools can hire more easily they are picking more of the cream of the crop and should have a lower firing rate than public schools.
2) that the fact that public schools are keeping bad teachers is a bad thing

Or were you really suggesting that the poor public schools HAVE to keep the bad teachers because they have a hard time hiring good teachers and that is somehow justification for screwing our children with a bad education?

As I said. Your argument tactics of ignoring what is said by your opponent and then bringing up completely new information and acting as though your opponent is stupid is a tactic of one who has a weak argument.

It is like if I said that I don’t like Big Macs and you then said “but McDonalds sells ice cream, BJ… or didn’t you know that?”

I’m done. I made my position known. Call me names. Continue with your going in circles conversational techniques. And have a nice day.

TheEiger July 22, 2014 at 3:12 pm
John Konop July 22, 2014 at 3:16 pm
TheEiger July 22, 2014 at 3:17 pm

Monty Python can describe a conversation with John better than me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

BJ Van Gundy July 22, 2014 at 3:20 pm

Yup! That’s him!

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 3:32 pm

Sorry if facts matter….If you want we could spew back and forth what we feel about the issue? Not a real positive solution based way of using time……

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 3:42 pm

The Eiger,

The truth is I am not blinded by politics like you and BJ at times…I realize when you get frustrated because I will not play the cheerleading game of politics…The sad part about you is at times when you are not playing the game you make very good points….but trust me, many of us see when you are just part of the machine….BJ, on the other hand I have only seen make talking points for his political gain….Not saying he is not smart enough to have a real objective voice just never saw it…Do not kid yourself….take all the swipes you guys want….most see the bs….

TheEiger July 22, 2014 at 3:47 pm

I know… John. You are.. better… than… all of us. I hope ……..that one day I can be as……… all knowing as… you.

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 3:50 pm

Never said I was better….but your last few comments demonstrate what is wrong with politics and why so many do not vote….you have taken all personal shots at me….nothing about the facts I posted…people see it and get it…

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 3:30 pm

BJ,

….You start to address the issue of 9.6% of Private Teachers being fired… and then swerve into the fact that they tend to be able to hire teachers more easily and somehow that is related? I don’t even know what that has to do with 9.6% of them get fired vs. 0.25% of Public school teachers getting fired annually….

1) In fairness, especially the fact you come from the banking industry….one would know that you have to compare like groups….If you compare AP public school teachers with private school teachers you would see similar turn over rate. I did not think I had to spell it our for you….Sorry for assuming…..

….Or were you really suggesting that the poor public schools HAVE to keep the bad teachers because they have a hard time hiring good teachers and that is somehow justification for screwing our children with a bad education?..

2) No I never said that…..I thought it was fairly clear I was referring to the social ills of low income areas and lack of vocational educational opportunities…Once again sorry for assuming you would get the point.

……..As I said. Your argument tactics of ignoring what is said by your opponent and then bringing up completely new information and acting as though your opponent is stupid is a tactic of one who has a weak argument….

3) I was trying to get to the real drivers of the problem not talking point politics….Sorry for assuming you would get the point….

……I’m done. I made my position known. Call me names. Continue with your going in circles conversational techniques. And have a nice day..

4) I never called you any names merely pointed out facts you even agree with…I am sorry if by me pointing out facts I upset you. If I ever see you in public at place with alcohol I will buy you a drink…That way the conversation will be more relaxing for you…..:)

TheEiger July 22, 2014 at 3:39 pm

Do they still teach grammar at both private and public schools? Just wondering. Everyone slips and uses the wrong their or there, but the constant use of the ellipsis makes it very hard to read what you post.

“An ellipsis [ … ] proves to be a handy device when you’re quoting material and you want to omit some words. The ellipsis consists of three evenly spaced dots (periods) with spaces between the ellipsis and surrounding letters or other marks.”

Let’s take the sentence, “The ceremony honored twelve brilliant athletes from the Caribbean who were visiting the U.S.” and leave out “from the Caribbean who were”:

The ceremony honored twelve brilliant athletes … visiting the U.S.

If the omission comes after the end of a sentence, the ellipsis will be placed after the period, making a total of four dots. … See how that works? Notice that there is no space between the period and the last character of the sentence.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/ellipsis.htm

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 3:45 pm

The Eiger,

As I told many publically on this blog numerous times, I am dyslexic….take your cheap shots….It does not change the facts…In business we say it is what it is….BTW it only shows your true colors….

BJ Van Gundy July 22, 2014 at 4:21 pm

I think I’ll just start responding to everything you say by saying that you obviously didn’t get what I was talking about…. It’s what you do. Guess that is acceptable to you as a debating tactic.

And I’ll raise you an “I know you are but what am I?” just for kicks.

Yeesh.

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 4:39 pm

BJ,

Cut the BS…the real tactic is you got caught spewing bs….Be a man….

BJ Van Gundy July 22, 2014 at 5:02 pm

Please provide what BS I spewed. NOTHING was BS. You in NO WAY showed ANYTHING I said to be untrue.

You cut the BS John. I really don’t get you. If I said the sky was Blue you would say it was gray… because it happens to be today.

However. I will be happy to answer if you can do this. Put what I said in quotes… and then you say “That’s BS”. At least I would know what it is you think is BS.

Otherwise this entire discussion REALLY DOES resemble the Monty Python skit that was posted earlier.

John Konop July 22, 2014 at 5:15 pm

You said:

…….. Georgia ranked in the high 40s in education before CC, ranks in the high 40s with CC, and will rank in the high 40s after CC……….

I said:

This was miss leading depending on where you live……

You said:

Yes. I’m very satisfied with MY children’s schools…….

HUH?

You Said:

…..You start to address the issue of 9.6% of Private Teachers being fired… and then swerve into the fact that they tend to be able to hire teachers more easily and somehow that is related? I don’t even know what that has to do with 9.6% of them get fired vs. 0.25% of Public school teachers getting fired annually….

I Said:

Once again miss leading if you compare AP public school teachers to high level private school teachers…. Once again you either agree or avoiding the facts….

I could go on and on….I get it you are big time advocate for Charter Schools it is public knowledge….All I am saying is make your point without spinning facts….I happen to support charter schools in failing districts….but the broad brush approach does a disservice to all involved. Comments like yours imply the sky is falling all over….The part that is most bizarre is good public schools are a major factor in real-estate value…Most people largest investment in their home….As a former banker you should be especially sensitive to broad brushing….

Ken July 22, 2014 at 9:57 am

Charlie,

You may want to check the statement about ads being bought. While the person working Richard Woods’s FB page did create a slide stating that Karen voted for Richard (and it did include her picture), Richard has told me no ads were bought. I’m not seeking to minimize the use of a person’s image without their permission (and Richard is accepting full responsibility for the actions), but it’s equally wrong to state that advertising was bought. That implies the candidate’s approval and that was not the case.

I’m sure Richard would be glad to clarify and amplify exactly what happened if you’re interested in contacting him.

drjay July 22, 2014 at 11:18 am

interesting divide–she states she voted for him, but did not endorse him…not to over parse, but if a public figure publicly states she voted for someone…how much control does said figure have of that info once it’s been made public…

BJ Van Gundy July 22, 2014 at 5:43 pm

No reply space…

Don’t need much….

All I have in reply is “Pathetic”.

georgiateacher July 22, 2014 at 6:35 pm

Hello Mr. Van Gundy,
Have you ever taught before in a public school? I agree with you on several points that you have made in previous posts (There are also a few I agree with the other fellow on)…I’ll say this, I’ve taught for a long, long time and feel that the teaching profession has been “deprofessionalized” drastically since my first year of teaching. Since then a number of teachers have entered the profession that are far from fit to teach BUT the vast majority are good at their job and have been hamstrung by the system (and are on survival mode out of self-preservation…I assure you that if a principal wants to sack you, they can and will regardless if it a private or public setting). If money was no object, I would suggest that you take a month and teach in a public school. I think that you will find that the overwhelming majority of your colleagues are top-notch (Call me optimistic…I think that this is true from the lowest performing schools to the top). I wish I had the answers to all of education’s problems…I’ve been damn fortunate to teach good kids and have the backing of the community. All I ask of you is to consider that so-called bad teachers are a tiny fraction of what is wrong with public education. On a lighter note, I would be glad to buy the first round if it would help bury the hatchet with you and Mr. Konop.
Best Regards,
J. W. Wilson
8th grade Georgia History teacher
Elkins Pointe Middle School
Roswell, Georgia

Mensa Dropout July 23, 2014 at 8:10 am

Mr. Wilson,
From what I have garnered over the years, most people loathe the idea of teaching because they find it too difficult; however, they are the first ones to disparage our pay, our work ethic, and our abilities.

John Konop July 23, 2014 at 8:51 am

Thank you for being a teacher…..my wife was a special Ed teacher….and you are right…that I was on the harsh side with my comments toward BJ….but I find it rather insulting on his beat up the teachers first with miss leading facts…..rather than deal with the issue….as far drinks I owe you one or two for your service…:) you have a very thankless job…..