Today’s Courier Herald Column:
Governor Nathan Deal pulled the plug Wednesday on efforts to move the state’s various regional referendums to fund localized lists of transportation projects. While the bill would have affected all votes statewide, the bill was designed to spur participation in the Atlanta region. The 10 county area contains roughly half the state’s population and a gridlocked transportation infrastructure. It also casts the future of North Georgia’s transportation future in doubt, a region which has lacked a coherent growth plan since Governor Purdue killed the northern Arc to fulfill one of his earliest campaign promises.
Local polling suggests that the proposal may have as little as 30% support in the Atlanta region, though most were taken prior to developing the targeted projects list or before the Metro Atlanta Chamber of Commerce has initiated an expected campaign to promote the benefits of infrastructure improvements to both the region and the state as a whole.
Opponents, however, have wasted no time in launching opposition to an extra one percent sales tax, with Georgia’s TEA Party Patriots and Atlanta TEA Party leaders mobilizing efforts to persuade legislators to block the measure. A compromise was reached on moving the TSPLOSTs to November 2012 by the Governor agreeing to push for all other future local referendums to be held on the November general election date as opposed to either special elections or summer primaries with thin participation. While Senate leaders signed on to the compromise, House Speaker David Ralston indicated his members feared that stepped on the concept of local control, and that they would need more time to reflect on the issue.
They now have plenty of time, as the bill has been suspended from further consideration. Legislators will now try to finish their work on passing new Congressional district maps by Saturday, and then adjourn until January.
What’s next for the transportation referendums is less than certain. While each region throughout the state will still have campaigns, many expected to pass, the focus of the legislation was to find a way to direct additional transportation funds into the Atlanta region. Atlanta exists because of transportation infrastructure. First because it was “Terminus” at the junction of railroads. Then came a mayor with the foresight to build a major airport. The Interstate highway system criss-crossed I-75, 85, and 20, sealing Atlanta’s roll as the way to move people and product throughout the Southeastern US and beyond. Atlanta is an international city and the capitol of the south because of logistics and superior infrastructure. Yet the infrastructure is no longer superior, and the logistics of moving people or product through Atlanta during anything approximating rush hour makes one question the meaning of the word “rush”.
The TSPLOST plan pre-dated the Deal and Reed Administrations, yet both have adopted it as their own and have invested their political capital toward advancing it to fruition. The rebuke of the attempt to move the referendum dates is a rare misfire in the pair’s usually seamless execution of their joint efforts. Both will no doubt spend time between now and January planning for adjustments to ease the concerns of those in opposition, and try to find a calculus that gets them to a vote with 51% of the region willing to increase their own taxes.
Among their options:
1) Divide the Atlanta region. Of the 10 Counties, Fulton and DeKalb already pay 1% for local transit in the form of MARTA. To placate these residents’ justifiable concerns that they’re being asked to pay again for infrastructure they already paid for, the project list is weighted more to transit than to roads. While this may be able to sell to a strong plurality if not outright majority in Cobb and Gwinnett, it will not likely sway voters in the more distant suburbs like Fayette and Cherokee, who are strongly against. The revenue generated from the 5 distant counties is not worth the decidedly no votes they will generate, and the Atlanta region should be redefined to the five core metro counties.
2) Re-allocate existing funds. Those who feel “taxed enough already” will want to see existing resources exhausted before agreeing to give government more money. Currently 1% of the value of motor fuels in Georgia are directed to the general fund instead of the DOT. These funds could be phased in to transit projects for regions who pass these taxes, as a form of a bigger carrot. The bill already has a small stick for regions who fail to pass the measures.
3) Start Over. As mentioned above, this wasn’t Deal or Reed’s plan, but both understand the critical nature of developing a coherent transportation plan for Atlanta and the state to continue to grow. One should ask if the measures are of this critical importance, why aren’t those who are elected to lead making the tough decisions instead of the voters? A failing referendum doesn’t just send everyone back to the drawing board, it sends them back with a public mandate of “no”, hindering the chances of a successful Plan B. Rather than risk Georgia’s economic future to a half-hearted plan based on a referendum, leaders may find it better to invest their capital in a plan with their names and finger prints on it.
The legislature will be back in January, ready to reconsider Atlanta and Georgia’s transportation needs. All parties should come to the table prepared with their best solutions. If not, Georgia is likely to lose another decade of falling behind on the infrastructure that allowed us to become great.
{ 72 comments }
Sign me up in the “start over” category. The only thing in it that I liked — requiring matching funds (10%/30%/50%)– is considered a stick. I see it as a co-pay that ensures locals have some skin in the game and make better decisions about allocating resources.
The Georgia GOP needs to put much more pressure on our Congressional Reps to stop skimming 40% from our federal gas tax collections. Send it back in a block grant and let’s target the real problem — congestion in Atlanta — rather than collect more taxes to build things like new interstate off ramps in the middle of nowhere. The same is true for the state gas tax that is being diverted. It should go to relieve congestion in a very targeted way.
I know voters hate it and don’t understand it, but we need to pay for additional road capacity with user fees and congestion pricing. Variable pricing with toll lanes make perfect sense. Tying user fees and congestion pricing to additional capacity seems like the best way to make a meaningful impact to me.
lol, 22bons, more tolls for Atlanta? That would go over like a lead balloon in the Metro area.
I know, I know. That’s why I don’t live there and won’t drive in before 10 or after 2.
A blatant error undermines your arguments. The minimum return of motor fuel taxes is approximately 90%. Georgia indeed is at or near the minimum, so that translates to 10%, one-quarter of your 40%.
@davebearse You clearly know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to be honest. There are two diversions of federal gas taxes. The first is a diversion from funding interstate highways to other uses. This is the diversion I address. The second, and smaller, diversion is from one state to other states. This is the diversion you address.
AJC’s Rachel Tobin reports:
http://www.ajc.com/business/amtrak-ponders-its-place-1145957.html
“By early next year, the federally-run passenger rail service expects to have a preferred site for a new terminal. An Amtrak official said candidates include Atlantic Station, and three MARTA stations: Lenox, Brookhaven and Doraville. ”
Advocates for the shuttered GM plant in Doraville recognize that putting AMTRAK at that location would create a Transportation Mall, similar to downtown Philly. Imagine ample parking, non-downtown Atlanta location to catch AMTRAK.
Another “Atlantic Station” type retail project at the GM plant will hurt Perminter Mall, kill the near-dead Greenbrier, and create an unneeded product. I hope DeKalb does whatever it takes to get AMTRAK at the GM Plant.
For all you non-public transit types, I hear MARTA is about to paint all their rail cars to look like a GON sticker before TSPLOST. You heard it on PP first.
Lexus lanes have failed in California. If republicans want to build roads for the rich off of people that have already paid for them good luck.
To stop the insiders from profiting off of DOT roads as have many a ga elected officials and DOT Board Chairman would be a could first start. As this is why we get the roads we get.
Yes we needed a northern arch, but Perdue planners going thru major golf residential developments with plenty of lawyers living in them was so stupid.
Yep, lexus lanes failed miserably in California as the state of CA had to pay the private company it “partenered” with hundreds-of-millions of dollars to get out of a contract that forbid the state from making improvements to any parallel or alternative routes that motorists could use to avoid the private toll road, which few, if any, California motorists used in a fiasco that became a major public relations disaster for the state of California.
And whatdoyaknow? It looks like the State of Georgia, in all of its infinite knowledge and wisdom, is hellbent on making the same exact mistake by committing hundreds-of-millions of taxpayer dollars to a contract with a private company that will restrict and possibly outright forbid improvements from being made to parallel and alternate routes in the area of the HOT (High Occupancy Tolled)/ “Lexus Lanes” that the state has been openly admitting will not make even enough money to cover the cost of the lanes’ construction, not to mention their operation and the amount of “profit” that the private company expects to make off of them.
To GDOT and the state of Georgia, building high-priced “managed” toll lanes that very few are likely to pay to use at anytime of day, not just rush hour, is the panacea to solving ALL of our traffic problems.
Forget commuter rail, forget just paying much less to build conventional HOV lanes, forget getting much more bang for taxpayers’ bucks in improving our horridly inadequate and long-neglected surface road network, high-priced “Lexus Lanes” aimed at the very wealthy few, who are not even themselves very likely to pay over $1.00-a-mile to use them, are the magic bullet to all of the Atlanta Region’s gridlock woes.
So basically, taxpayers are going to pay close to or possibly more than $1 BILLION dollars for the idiots in state government to build miles of lanes that we can all sit and watch be empty while we continue to be stuck in gridlock on Interstates 75, 85 and 575 and that’s just for starters. That’s so GENIUS! Why didn’t I think of that sooner? Let’s solve gridlock by adding empty lanes to crowded freeways that no one will want to pay to use and then let’s expect nice big hefty profits from an item that will make virtually no profit because no one is paying to use it…BRILLIANT!
Even better, lets take an HOV lane on I-85 that was in heavy use and restrict it so that all of the traffic that was using it now has to use the other already heavily gridlocked lanes thereby creating more gridlock on the highway. It’s the GDOT/State of Georgia solution to solving gridlock by creating even more gridlock…I bet that the geniuses at GDOT are probably sitting around GDOT headquarters smoking cigars and patting themselves on the back for coming up with such an ingenious solution to such a critical problem.
One “genius” even had the courage to basic state that him and all of the other geniuses at GDOT had worked very, very hard to come up with this very costly copycat solution that will likely make your daily commute even worse (Hey, if the BANKRUPT state of CALIFORNIA does it and fails miserably, then it must be worth trying here in Georgia, right?) and implied that we should be very thankful and appreciative that they are pulling these misguided cost-prohibitive ideas out of their a** (because anyone with common sense can easily tell that these horrific ideas that the brainiac down at GDOT are “working so hard” at trying to bring into a miserable reality sure didn’t come from anyone’s brains).
I also doubt that as many rich people in Georgia will pay over a dollar-per-mile to use those lanes as the state is hoping.
As for the Northern Arc, it is a road that works in concept as there are quite a few major North American cities that have built and are in the process of building second outer loops and bypasses, but the only difference in Georgia is that there are very, very wealthy and politically-influential people who live directly in and close to the path of both the first closer-in proposed path and the more recent second farther-out proposed path of the road.
The second more recent farther out proposed path is worse because it runs through even more valuable, even more pristine heavily-wooded hilly and mountainous land that makes for great potential residential real estate.
A proposed Northern Arc in any form or incarnation is D.O.A. with the general public and, ESPECIALLY, the wealthy conservative homeowners and landowners of the area of the Golden Crescent that the road is proposed to run through who are very influential in Georgia politics because everyone knows that the entire purpose of the road is for developers to continue to line their pockets while continuing to haphazardly degrade the nearest landscape with the same type of cheap, poorly planned and thought-out commercial and residential development that has dramatically changed once-pleasant exurban communities like Cobb and, ESPECIALLY, Gwinnett for the worse by turning them both into something that looks like an overcrowded nightmarish Los Angeles-style inner-suburban cesspool that is brimming with illegals, ruthless international drug gangs, increasing violent crime and low-income housing.
I don’t have anything personal against people of limited means as most of them are hardworking people just trying to scrape by and eke out a modest living for themselves and their families, but if I live in a nice, peaceful, quiet exurban community far-removed the ills of urban inner-city and now, inner-suburban, Atlanta, I want it to stay that way because I spent alot of money to move and live far away from that chaos and I don’t want it coming to meet and surround me as it has done to longtime residents in Cobb and Gwinnett and as it did in earlier years in North Fulton, Clayton and DeKalb (I know that this might be shocking to those who have recently moved here, but believe it or not, Sandy Springs, Clayton County and much of DeKalb County use to be nice suburban communities at one time while Cobb and Gwinnett were the “sticks”).
I don’t blame the residents of outer counties one-bit for not wanting to see what would likely become another 285 change their communities into an urban cesspool so that some already-wealthy ruthless developers can line their pockets at everyone else’s great expense, both financially and quality-of-life wise and for GDOT, the state and the land spectulatorial powers-that-be to take what is obviously the same proposal and (very poorly, clumsily and idiotically) try to “reinvent” it under what is basically the same name and concept doesn’t inspire much, if any, confidence in our state leadership on transportation or much anything else.
How many seemingly-invincible long-ruling political parties have to be kicked out of power and thrown out of the Gold Dome headfirst before it finally kicks in that the Northern Arc is a political non-starter?
BTW, for those that doubt public transport is an important option for corporate decision makers:
“Ventyx’s headquarters won’t move far. They are currently located just northeast of 285 and 75.
The company’s move to Dunwoody was spurred by the need for a high quality corporate location with access to multiple transportation options, better access to its current and futures workforce, and easily accessible amenities, the city said.”
Courtesy Mr. Peter Cox Dunwoody PATCH:
http://dunwoody.patch.com/articles/it-company-to-bring-headquarters-and-jobs-to-dunwoody
Any numbers on Fulton/DeKalb/Clayton’s portion of Hartsfield funding? How bout a special airport user fee to those in the “outer counties” who are so opposed to any transit improvements in the metro area?
This north Fulton guy told me once he thinks he ought to have to pay $8 to take Marta from his hood to the airport. And he’d like it b/c it’s still cheaper than parking.
So set up a turnstile at the Airport Marta station — everybody who’s clearly a suit has to pay $8 to get in or out of the airport.
Problem solved! Yall are welcome.
Other metro areas (San Francisco’s BART for instance) have a system whereby you pay by the distance. No reason Atlanta couldn’t implement the same system.
No other reason except blatant incompetence and even total ignorance at the state, regional and local levels. Base fares start at $3.00 one-way in Toronto and rush hour fares on the DC Metro heavy rail and bus as much as $5.00 one-way. Fares on commuter rail trains around the U.S. range from a minimum of $7-$11 one-way in Chicago to as much as $25 one-way in New York.
Transit is also funded with parking fees and traffic fines in many cities, including in San Francisco.
There seems to be an ill-informed, misguided and incorrect mindset in the Atlanta Region that transit fares can only be and have to be artificially low to accomodate the homeless and very low income while the rest of the cost of providing the service can only be funded through very heavy public subsidies raised through increased and much higher taxes, which is NOT the case.
Adequately-priced higher fares and user fees play a key role in funding transit upgrades.
Is anyone else concerned that moving the date of the referendum came down not to the actual merits of the move but the fact that the Black Caucus was upset over redistricting and the Tea Party wanted a Splost sacred cow thrown upon the alter?
Seriously, if these two groups are driving the train, we are all screwed.
BTW- Option 1 is an Excellent idea. I also like Option 2.
Sure the Democratic caucus is upset over redistricting, but you’re mistaken about the caucus concerning the vote note being changed.
Georgia is governed by 30% of its in either House, the 30% being the number constituting a majority of GOP in either House. Measures aren’t allowed to the floor unless approved by a majority of the GOP caucus.
“Measures aren’t allowed to the floor unless approved by a majority of the GOP caucus.”
That is a rule of the Senate Republicans. The House, usually, does not abide by it. I see the tea party with more influence in the Senate because of Chip Rogers. The impression I get from the House is they are not as influenced because the tea partiers in House have less influence inside their caucus.
An appreciated bit of information concerning the House, UpHere. Would you provide a couple of examples of bills that came to a House floor vote where a GOP majority voted against the bill?
Yeah, folks like you have done such a great job with everything. That just means that the insider crooks are still in charge of doing stupid stuff that lines their pockets.
Excellent options
Hard to get behind something when you either are not getting or have no idea what you will be getting for your bucks. Trust me is a negative position in politics.
There is some credence to the argument that 100 percent of projected TSPLOST revenues should stay in the county they’re collected.
There is also some credence to the argument that 100 percent of TSPLOST revenues should go to badly-needed road upgrades while the one percent of the gas tax that currently goes to the general fund should be redirected to become base funding for regional transit improvements, sans present-day MARTA.
Again, the 1% of the gas tax that now goes to the general fund should be redirected to become a BASE level of funding for regional transit improvement, NOT the only source of funding as the rest of funding of any and every transit system should be made up with USER FEES in the form of adequately higher-priced fares, OPTIONAL TAXES in the form of donations obtained through fundraising drives and variable donations on state tax returns and SIN TAXES on sales of liquor, cigarettes and adult entertainment. With these potential revenue streams ALONE, there is more than enough money to fund a viable transit system that appeals to Georgians of ALL socioeconomic classes and NOT just mobs of unsupervised juvenile delinquents and the homeless.
Should even 3% of the 4% general sales tax levied on motor fuels should be dedicated to transportation, when 0% of the general sales tax levied on lumber is reserved for the wood products industry?
Absofreakinlutely, it should, seeing as how critically important and crucially vital transportation is to this area’s existence. This isn’t just about an individual driver’s morning and evening rush hour commute, this is about commerce and quality-of-life.
If the wood industry doesn’t get any of the general sales tax it won’t be harmed, but if the transportation network doesn’t get any of the general sales tax, then not only might we not be able to get to and from work on certain days, but the wood that people in the wood industry need to make a living and other products that other industries depend to make money for themselves and the tax revenues that contribute to the services we receive are slowed down and halted because it can’t get to market, etc.
Roads don’t only move commuters, but they also move goods and services and are a crucial link between in the process and connection between production and market. Clogged roads slow down that process and slow down the amount of money that is and has to be made to prosper and survive.
If we can’t get paid because of gridlocked roads, then we can’t pay our taxes (property, sales, income) and our services and our overall quality-of-life suffers when it takes a service longer to be administered or goods longer to get to market to be sold.
I didn’t articulate the thought behind the comment. I didn’t mean to suggesting spending less on transportation. The comment should have meant to suggest much higher motor fuel taxes. Channeling all of the the basic sales tax portion of the gas tax is subsidizing transportation at the expense of wood for instance. Subsidies increase demand.
I don’t disagree with raising fuel taxes, somewhat (but not, too high), to finance much-needed transportation improvements, but I also realize that in this volatile political and economic environment, substantial tax increases just are not going to happen in the foreseeable future, especially in a state as conservative as Georgia where there are massive trust issues with the political leadership.
Transportation advocates for better roads and, ESPECIALLY, better transit, have got to realize that sitting around waiting for a conservative state legislature to substantially raise taxes, or raise taxes in even the slightest amount, is a non-solution especially in this environment where factions like the Tea Party are, very understandably, intensely pressuring conservative leadership to cut and restrict the size of a government (from federal to local) that threatens to bankrupt the republic and plunge us into some kind of post-apocalyptic world like something out of Mad Max.
We have got to be very considerate of the current financial and political circumstances when pushing for these solutions, all of which come at a substantial cost in an environment where everyone is understandably very anxious about their collective and personal finances and advocating for higher taxes on gas when many people are struggling with just simply paying for gas at the current sales tax rates sounds very insensitive to what people are going through and struggling with which is why raising gas taxes substantially, even though Georgia’s may be amongst the lowest in the nation, is an idea that I sometimes tend to shy away form personally.
Hey, I depend heavily on my vehicle to perform my job so I know firsthand what it’s like to eaten alive by high and increasing gas prices.
Another thing is that the current TSPLOST proposal is severely “unfocused”, to say the least, as it attempts to fund everything from air traffic control towers at regional airports to light rail expansions of a failing model in the present-day MARTA.
This approach of funding all modes of “transportation”, even those that are obviously unrelated to providing traffic relief to gridlocked Metro Atlantans, just seems to lend itself to the placement of porkbarrel-like projects on the list and a token approach to dealing with both badly-needed road and transit upgrades.
Projects unable to be completed and operational quickly like the Beltline, the proposed light rail between the MARTA Arts Center Station and Cumberland Mall in Cobb and proposed the light rail project between the Doraville MARTA Station and the Gwinnett Center have no place on the list when there are so many badly-needed road upgrades that could be completed and provide congestion relief quicly and easily within the 10-year life span of the tax.
Shorter version: More roads, MARTA only serves zombies
Shortest version: The 20% of voters who identify as a tea party activist publish their transportation plan and the other 80% of us tap out.
Wait, the Tea Party *has* a transportation plan?
The Tea Party has a magic wand….watch….poof…see there the traffic situation is good to go for the next 40 years as we fade into oblivion. GO CHARLOTTE!!!
Yeah the plan is to stop idiots and crooks like you from wasting our tax money. i can see why you prefer to be little such a action since you are one of the crooks and/or idiots.
Even Shorter: The 3% who ride Marta cry when 97% who don’t ride it fail to increase Marta Subsidy.
I am a suburbanite. I only use MARTA maybe once or twice a year. The interstate system around Atlanta is just too convenient for me, traffic or not. It would take me twice as long to get from point A to point B with MARTA and I like the freedom of having my SUV. If the House, Senate, Governor or GDOT could figure out how to get me out of my car in a convenient manner, I might be more of an advocate for transit. Nothing in the T-SPLOST plan would even come close to that.
The interstate system to convenient for me, too….when the roads are dry and in the wee hours of the morning far removed from rush hour.
Sorry, but my job requires that I do ALOT of driving all over Metro Atlanta and North Georgia and I’ve just been stuck in traffic on Atlanta-area freeways way TOO MANY times to extole the virtues of the convenience of the interstate system, not to mention the inadequate surface road network and the nearly non-existent transit system.
You are very much correct about there being nothing in the T-SPLOST plan to help get us out of our cars in a convenient manner, but with there being so many badly-needed improvements to our roads, especially on our surface roads, there should probably be a focus on improving the roads first as we can get the biggest bang for our buck the quickest and help to keep people and commerce moving immediately.
We can deal with transit in the comprehensive way that it needs to be dealt with on a larger scale and much more thoughtfully later, but as we are almost literally choking to death on congestion and gridlock RIGHT NOW, we need to keep in mind that the roads are of just are must of a critical importance NOW as transit is to our future.
Personally, I’d think an outer loop would be the best use of the TSPLOST dollars. If the T-SPLOST was to pay for an outer loop, I might actually vote for it. Let all the 18 wheelers with no business in town avoid Atlanta altogether. As it is, there’s absolutely no way I can vote for the T-SPLOST.
yea, let Cherokee County see that a new interstate would be built there. They have the biggest case of NIMBY I have ever seen.
I don’t disagree with you at all as there are quite a few major cities that have recently built or are building second outer loops and bypasses, Houston (Loop 8/Sam Houston TOLLWAY), Chicago (I-355/Veterans Memorial TOLLWAY), Dallas (TX 161/President George Bush Turnpike (TOLLED and partially completed)), Toronto (Hwy 407/Express TOLL Route), Miami (Florida’s Turnpike (TOLL)) and even transit-heavy Washington DC (Maryland 200/Intercounty Connector TOLL Road). Notice that all of these roads are TOLLED roads and that the cities they bypass are as diverse as more heavily auto-dependent Sunbelt cities in Texas to transit-heavy Snowbelt cities in Toronto, Chicago and Washington. Yes, even transit-heavy cities build new expressways (with tolls) because not everyone will or can ride the trains and buses to work and other destinations, no matter how much transit service is overwhelmingly available (it’s called being MULTImodal, a lesson that mobility-challenged Atlanta would do well to learn, QUICKLY).
The only problems with the Outer Loop concept in the Atlanta Region is that any proposed northern alignment of the road (the erstwhile and now dead Northern Arc proposal) would run through what is still some very valuable existing and potential residential real estate, despite the economic downturn and real estate crisis. It was these wealthy, well-connected and politically-influential landowners, who possess some very valuable real estate nestled amongst densely-wooded foothills and low mountain ranges of the extreme Southern Blue Ridge and Appalachian Mountains, who effectively killed the first Northern Arc (and resulting entire Outer Loop) proposal in the early 2000′s and would quickly kill any new Northern Arc proposal and effectively the careers of any politician and possibly the reign of the entire political party they belong to.
Members of the current ruling Republican Party very much remember what happened to a what was then a seemingly invincible ruling Democrat Party when they backed the Northern Arc proposal early in the century and they don’t want the same thing to happen to them for backing an extremely unpopular TOLL road that runs through the areas of some of their most ardently Conservative GOP backers in scenic and pristine areas of North Georgia. I think that it’s safe to assume that any Outer Loop proposal, especially one with a “Northern Arc” is extremely toxic and effectively radioactive to a GOP-controlled state government looking to stay in power for as long as possible and not let happen to them what happened to the long-ruling Democrats.
To the ruling Georgia GOP, an Outer Loop, ESPECIALLY one with a “Northern Arc” is a surefire way to improbably lose control of state government and hand control right back to the Dems who had their boots pressed down hard on the collective necks of Georgia Republicans for close to 140 years.
It is the political implausability and utter political impossibility of an Outer Loop that makes investment in our existing roadway and rail infrastructure and the development of a well thought-out regional commuter rail network all the more critically important.
Also, not as many 18-wheelers might bypass and avoid Atlanta as you think as Atlanta is the destination of much of that massive amount of truck traffic out on the roads as a major industrial and very major trucking, distribution and logistics center in the Eastern U.S.
Yep, I’ve been on the 407 in Toronto. If I’m not mistaken, isn’t that a privately run toll road as well? The road was in great condition and very easy to get on and off. And from what I remember reading about it, it seems like they have cameras posted that capture license plates that use the road so that those who don’t have a transponder can just be sent a bill for their usage… pretty nifty.
As for the 18 wheelers, I’ve got a friend who drives one for a living. How much trucking and logistics is inside 285 vs outside 285? Instead of this friend being able to go back West on I-20 from the terminal at Thornton Rd at I-20 to an outer loop to then hit I-75 or I-85, they have to continue towards Atlanta to then hit 285 to get to I-75 or I-85. I’ve heard several complaints about the I-285 at I-20 interchange. Truckers absolutely hate it.
I can assure you that truckers aren’t the only ones that really hate the I-285 @ I-20 West interchange (and the I-285 @ 20 East one isn’t really that much of a bargain either) as I don’t think that it’s too much of a stretch to say that interchange is pretty much universally hated by anyone who has to travel through there during daylight and, ESPECIALLY, during morning and evening rush hours.
Speaking of attempting to bring the outer loop concept to Atlanta, a few months ago, officials in Paulding County, which straddles Hwy 278-6 in West Metro Atlanta, had come up with their very own proposal to resurrect the west and south portions of the Outer Perimeter Loop from I-75 north near Cartersville to I-75 south near Griffin.
Paulding County officials openly stated from the jump that they were pushing this newest Outer Perimeter/Bypass proposal purely as an economic development project so that they could lure more industry by having a direct expressway connection to I-75 at both ends of the Atlanta Region as not once did the idea of relieving congestion on I-285 even come up during the discussion and therein lies the rub.
I give Paulding County officials credit for being completely open and honest about their intent for their proposal being purely for the purpose of economic development in their county, it’s just that any Outer Perimeter/Loop or even bypass proposals will never gain any traction because the proposed road will always be perceived by North Georgians as being a road that is purely for the benefit of wealthy land developers to get even richer while creating more of the overdevelopment and sprawl that many Metro Atlantans and North Georgians understandably perceive to be degrading their collective quality-of-life.
No other county along the route proposed by Paulding County officials showed even a remote interest in moving the proposal forward and, of course, most factions in state government consider the concept of an Outer Perimeter to be politically radioactive.
Seeing as though the idea of any type of road expansion seems to inspire very intense anger from the loud progressives on the left and as though the idea of any type of transit expansion seems to inspire very intense anger from the loud conservatives on the right, I can see why the Atlanta Region finds itself in the precarious traffic situation that it is in at present.
One of the major problems with transportation in this town is that MARTA seems as if it’s purposely mismanaged so as only to appeal to the 3% of commuters with little or no funds and NOT the 97% of commuters who have a few more dollars in their pockets to finance a better system on their own without subsidies from all taxpayers.
It’s like they only want a system that appeals to the homeless and very low income while expecting the rest of the working taxpaying public to pay for a system with such shortcomings.
I agree MARTA should focus more on winning those that have choices.
I’m just saying that we need a different transportation model and that it needs to be much better well thought-out and not some rushed into half-a**ed token funding model that shortchanges everything from roads to rail to bus just because some fat, happy, lazy legislators don’t want to use their brains to do something useful (like their jobs that they were elected to do) and are looking to shut everybody up.
There are several comments here on increasing road capacity instead of light rail, and one on the silly ramp projects all over the state. I believe the Atlanta metro is still under a rule from the Feds preventing road expansion until a solution to air pollution is in place. I’m pretty sure that’s why GA DOT did all those ramp “improvements”…..”use it or lose it” as applied to federal money coming into the state. So the only solution would be light rail, not bigger roads.
The idea of “one size fits all” for the entire metro is misguided. I live in Fayette, and as mentioned we are opposed because we don’t want to pay for light rail in Cobb or Gwinnett. That’s why I would support Option #1.
I think that you are correct, I think that there are still federally-imposed restrictions on the amount of federal funds that Metro Atlanta can receive to build roads, it’s just that those restrictions have been in place for so long now, that nearly everyone has forgotten about them as they are virtually never mentioned in this recent conversation about the proposed transportation tax and needed improvements.
To my knowledge, the restrictions on roadbuilding only apply to federal funds being used to build Atlanta Region roads, there are no restrictions on the Atlanta Region being able to raise its own roadbuilding funds and paying for improvements on its own without the help of the feds.
The light rail proposals in Gwinnett and, especially, the light rail project in Cobb, does almost nothing to relieve congestion on either a local scale in those areas, or on a regional scale. Those two proposed light rail projects are nothing more than special interest projects meant to connect convention centers in Gwinnett and Cobb with the convention area in Downtown Atlanta. Basically, the projects are on the list for TSPLOST funding to benefit interests aligned directly with the area convention industry and the local Chambers of Commerce.
The proposed light rail extensions off of or at the end of the two MARTA lines also do nothing more than take the current failing MARTA transportation (and governance and funding) model and expand on it to include a couple of light rail lines that almost completely useless in alleviating both local and regional congestion, something that extended commuter rail lines might serve to do much better than these two special interest pet project light rail lines.
If we are going to fund and operate transit the wrong way then we might as well NOT waste the money to fund it at all!
Sure, I would like to have a transportation system that is much more multimodal, but if I can get some badly-needed investments in road improvements I will take them. Texas, Florida and, to a slightly lesser extent, North Carolina may invest substantially more than Georgia in transit, but they also invest tons more in their road networks than Georgia.
In Georgia, and in Metro Atlanta in particular, even the mere suggestion of widening a badly gridlocked road seems to inspire the ire of so-called “progressives” who think that taxes should be raised across-the-board at the state level to subsidize the expansion of a clearly failing local transit model (MARTA and the like) in which fares are kept artificially low so that the homeless and very low income will be able to easily ride the trains and buses before any road should even be thought of being widened or improved.
The only problem is that taxes will likely NEVER be raised by a state government controlled by low-tax, supposedly limited government conservatives and that the homeless and the very low income don’t make up the majority of commuters on traffic clogged roads because if they did, MARTA would be bursting at the seams with riders and the roads would be empty, but unfortunately for misguided MARTA advocates, we don’t live in a third-world country (yet, at least for now).
Since Atlanta is already the Socialist Mecca of the South:
Ban MARTA Buses, trains and all Auto’s ITP… Allow only bikes and rickshaws.
There, I solved Atlanta’s transportation…. and unemployment problem in one swell swoop.
In some areas in Atlanta, there’s a good chance your ‘shaw will actually be driven by a guy named Rick.
NO NEW TAXES!!!
Solve the problem BEFORE asking us to pay for it.
My idea may be ridiculus, but at least it cost taxpayers nothing and has a real solution attached…. other than “we need more money to spend on something even though we don’t know what it is yet…. or if it’ll solve anything.
Don’t give them any ideas. They already heavily restrict automobile traffic in places like Central London (England, not Kentucky).
Clearly the best option given the political realities is for everyone to start over on this and put whatever comes out of it on the General Election ballot in November 2012. Additionally, all future SPLOST referendums should be held on General Elections in November.
There are too many people who do not support the regional concept behind the TSPLOST for various reasons that the current plan is likely to be turned down by most voters statewide.
The Governor and Mayor Reed should push legislators to scrap the current plan and start over come January on the entire transportation plan and its funding.
If the TSPLOST fails,
Can I expect the Tea Party to come out in support of raising the gas tax? This seems to fall better in line with their claim that the outlying counties shouldn’t be subsidizing MARTA since they never use it.
How about tolls? Will the Tea Party advocate for toll booths charging people $5 to cross 285?
The fact remains that Georgia is the 4th fastest growing state with the 4th LOWEST investment in infrastructure. At some point, people are begin relocating elsewhere. Denver, Phoenix, Charlotte, other cities across the country that have decided to invest in infrastructure that isn’t the “JUST ADD MORE LANES!!!!” concept that has treated Atlanta oh so well over the past 30 years.
I fully agree that Georgia needs to TONS MORE invest in its infrastructure, but there is a wild misperception that Georgia has overinvested in roads, particularly adding more lanes because of the “Freeing the Freeways” project back in the 1980′s and the addition of HOV (High Occupancy Vehicle) lanes in the early and 90′s.
I can see where people might misperceive that GDOT just dealt with our traffic problems by adding more lanes to the freeways, but when you take a closer look at that massive project you discover that despite the big freeway widening project in the 80′s and into the 90′s, Georgia hasn’t done invested very much in surface arterial roads on the road side in addition to not investing in alternative modes like rail and bus, just take a trip to Florida or Texas to see what I’m talking about and you will see the difference in the greater amount of 4-7 lane surface roads (with sidewalks, bike lanes and crosswalks) versus the amount we have in Georgia.
What’s the point of having those wider freeways if your surface arteries are mostly two-lane and the traffic can’t exit off of the freeway because the road and the extended network that the traffic is trying to exit onto can’t handle the cars?
“The fact remains that Georgia is the 4th fastest growing state with the 4th LOWEST investment in infrastructure.”
Very true, but those competitors you cited in CO, AZ and NC as well as in FL and TX also invest much more heavily in their road networks in addition to investing more in transit as opposed to Georgia which in comparision has invested virtually nothing in neither in the years since the Olympics. If Georgia makes the fourth lowest investment in overall infrastructure it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that it isn’t investing as much as it should be in its road network, either, especially in the Atlanta Region which grew by THREE MILLION! people in the 20-year period between 1988 and 2008 (basically, the Atlanta Region added the ENTIRE population of the Denver Region in those years, but hasn’t added the across-the-board infrastructure to support them in either roads, rails or water).
“At some point, people are begin relocating elsewhere.”
People will still relocate here (have you seen the some of the places up north and out west that they’re relocating from?), it’s just that the highest-paying jobs to support them may not and after awhile, will not.
I say that Atlanta will still grow because of the places that directly feed and heavily contribute to the explosive growth that Atlanta has seen over the last three decades or so, places like the overcrowded, high cost-of-living Northeast Corridor in which probably the overwhelming majority of our relocatees and transplants come from. Michigan, which is in a pretty down-and-out state right now and is experiencing massive population declines almost to the extent that Georgia has been experiencing massive population increases (the state is about to fall out of the Top 10 in population because so many people are leaving the state) also “sends” alot of relocatees to Georgia, many of whom move here because of the almost unimaginable desperation of the economic and/or social situation there.
Metro Atlanta will continue to get new relocatees, we just may not get the ones with college educations who can contribute a little more to the property, income and sales tax bases than the lower-income ones who are moving here out of sheer desperation, but lower income people still buy things too, which means the region will continue to be an attractive market because of the larger population and recent explosive growth.
The recent population growth which has pole-vaulted Atlanta into the Top 10in size is the reason why this region continues to be an attractive relocation and takeover target for so many large banks and corporations from other regions of the U.S. and the globe. Look no further than Wells Fargo Bank, Chase Bank, Fifth-Third Bank, PNC Bank, BB&T Bank, Southwest Airlines, Publix Grocery Stores and QuikTrip Gas Stations as recent examples of large companies that have recently found a way to get into the Atlanta market after desperately wanting and trying for many years.
The Tea Party-GOP base position is pretty simple. Fulton and DeKalb paying twice as much as everyone else for regional transportation, three times as much as everyone else combined for transit, and ten times as much as Tea Party strongholds like Cherokee County, is a transportation handout to Fulton and DeKalb slackers.
The math is pretty easy, even for graduates of Georgia’s K-12 system.
Fulton and DeKalb’s 1% MARTA and 1% T-SPLOST equal 2%, every one else 1% for regional transportation.
T-SPLOST is 50-50% transit-roads. (Before anyone points out it’s 55-45, note that the 15% being returned to counties for use at their own discretion is likely to be tilted toward roads.) Fulton and DeKalb 1% MARTA and 0.5% T-SPLOST transit equal 1.5%, everyone else collectively 0.5% T-SPLOST transit.
Now examine the T-SPLOST as it concerns Cherokee County, an easy choice because Cherokee County has only a few large T-SPLOST road projects totaling $200,000,000. Then consider that the T-SPLOST will return about $60,000,000 to Cherokee County, and that will be very heavily tilted toward roads. (The $60M is a back of the napkin figure but a reasonable order of magnitude.) The first result is that the T-SPLOST will return about three-quarters of the Cherokee County T-SPLOST contribution wholly within the County.
(Not fair you say, Cherokee isn’t getting all they paid in? The $260,000,000 in Cherokee County road improvements won’t much benefit anyone but those that live in Cherokee County. How many people from metro Atlanta that don’t live in Cherokee County travel in Cherokee County on any given day? Almost no one. Meanwhile half of the people that reside in Cherokee County and are employed travel outside of Cherokee County to their employment.)
The second result is that one-half (50-50 transit-roads split) of the one-quarter of 1% Cherokee County T-SPLOST funds that aren’t returned to Cherokee County will go to regional transit, one-half or one-quarter is one-eighth of 1%. Fulton and DeKalb paying 1.5% for transit are paying more than 10 times more. Sure Fulton and DeKalb should pay much more, but the factor of 10 illustrates the ridiculousness of the Tea Pary and its control of the Georgia GOP.
Fulton and DeKalb voters will be voting no on the T-SPLOST too. A yes vote simply empowers the Tea Party panderes that control the Georgia GOP.
And Dave explains exactly why I will be voting No. Despite the other nonsense being used to justify No votes. Thank you Dave.
I am having trouble with your math. If $60M is 15%, then 100% is $400M. 260M/400M is 65%. (and it is actually 197M allocated to Cherokee, not 200M – which makes it 64.25%). That is quite a difference from “three-quarters”.
I am not opposed to helping with regional transportation needs. I have always worked outside of the county. And most of my neighbors do too. I am actually surprised the numbers come out this good for us.
Let’s not play fast and loose with the numbers. If this thing is to have any chance at all of passing we need to have a fair, honest, and open discussion about the numbers, and then let the voters decide. The voters are not stupid, but they will certainly vote “no” if they think they are not getting all of the facts or are being lied to.
TSPLOST is only a piece of the transportation funds. The idea is that there is some benefit for the tax dollars extracted and not a gross imbalance in the improvements.
By your math of course Cherokee is accounting less for transit, their benefit is minimal. There are some other transit monies for Cherokee you missed. No idea what TSPLOST has in transit-road plans for Fulton-DeKalb, you didn’t disclose if they had 1% TSPLOST coming back or ?
No idea how the TP does the math but if all goes as promised in TSPLOST Cherokee will probably come within range of a wash, we hope. Cherokee is getting one road – 140 & one dangerous bridge reworked.
That work should have been done years ago with traditional fundings. We are told that to get the above long past due work (and other projects now removed) “fast-tracked” we should vote for the 1%.
If TSPLOST passes all projects in 10 counties go back in for repriortizing. Cherokee has not been getting their return on the taxes paid and there is no confidence we will. So your position is – “vote for it & if it passes, we’ll see what you get” – easy to say in this climate of rail & for the ITP mob.
Personally, I’ve always favored increasing the fuel tax as it changes behavior. But something is strange in fuel prices as the distributors/retailers are already collecting a significant premium over higher tax states like Florida.
So cough up a list (forcasting TSPLOST passing) of ALL projects in the time frames w/ TSPLOST & traditional monies. If it is close to a wash, it is a great “yea” argument leaving the “nays” to those that won’t budge from a position of a mismanaged DOT.
TBD (trust us) is not solid ground to vote yea.
I live in Henry. I work in Fayette. I only come into Atlanta to fly out. Option #1 sounds best, after TSPLOST is defeated.
How’s that Eagles Landing exchange working for ya? All those extra lanes have really helped haven’t they?
If he works in Fayette, I doubt he is taking 75.
But, I will say they have helped tremedously. I don’t sit on 75 in the afternoon anymore.
Then we must be traveling at different times.
The nice new Hudson Bridge/Eagle’s Landing bridge over I75 is right handy for going to WalMart. I just look down at I75 and wonder why anybody drives/parks on it.
They drive (and park) on it because they have no choice because it’s not like they have the option of getting on a commuter train on a day that they not feel like battling traffic on an I-75 that is clearly undersized and overcapacity.
Believe it or not, that section of I-75 at Hudson Bridge, a few miles south of the I-675 junction is similar to a major freeway junction in Orange County, California where the I-5 Santa Ana Freeway and the I-405 San Diego Freeway come together south of Los Angeles. Just like I-75 continues into Downtown Atlanta, the I-5 continues into Downtown L.A. and just like 675 splits off to connect with 285 and direct traffic around the center of the city, the I-405 is kind of a bypass around the center of L.A., only around the Westside of the city. A few years ago Caltrans (the CA dept of transportation) widened that junction to over 20 lanes (10 in each direction) to deal with the traffic at that important junction south of L.A. Just like GDOT, Caltrans has done alot of things wrong in recent years, but that was not one of them as traffic flows through there much more freely now.
Now I’m not saying that I-75 should be widened to that many lanes (20) south of the junction with I-675, but both of those roads (75 and 675) need to be widened substantially as just as I-5 is on the West Coast, I-75 is a very, very major highway through the Eastern third of the U.S. and that section of I-75 in particular (also via I-16) carries a very heavy amount of truck cargo traffic to and from the Port of Savannah which has grown into one of the world’s major seaports, not to mention the frequent vacation and resort traffic to and from Florida. It wouldn’t hurt if there were a viable commuter/interurban rail option connecting Downtown Atlanta with Middle Georgia along BOTH Norfolk Southern rail lines (via Griffin and Jackson) south of the city, either.
What would work even better is improving the HEAVY rail out of Georgia Ports, and decreasing the truck traffic on all interstates. Unfortunately TSPLOST in metro Atlanta opted for light rail north of I-20. That is a loss for everybody except Fulton, Dekalb, and Cobb.
There are plans on the table to do just that, improve the freight rail connection between the Port of Savannah and at least Atlanta and beyond to upgrade the corridor to handle higher speed trains, but those are long-term proposals that will take many years to plan and implement.
Acknowledging that we depend heavily on the interstates and will continue to for sometime into the foreseeable future by making roadway upgrades that can be completed quicker is the best way to go right now when talking about alleviating congestion and allowing people and commerce to better move on what is a very important and heavily utilized route south out of Atlanta.
You gotta remember that Atlanta is a major destination for truck traffic and is also a major trucking, distribution and logistics center in Eastern North America, so very heavy truck traffic will always be something that Atlanta motorists will likely always have to deal with when driving on area interstates.
Those TSPLOST-funded light rail proposals north of I-20 didn’t really sound like winners for taxpayers and commuters in Gwinnett, either.
The proposed light rail line between the Arts Center MARTA station and Cumberland Mall is being heavily derided by Cobb taxpayers because it is “planned” to only run one mile into Cobb County while many local heavily used and gridlocked roadways badly in need of even the slightest most minimal improvements would continue to go untouched and the CSX and Georgia Northeastern Railroad lines that are the sites of two proposed potentially heavily used commuter rail lines that could alleviate Interstates 75 and 575 northwest out of Atlanta would be ignored.
Likewise, the proposed light rail line connecting the Doraville MARTA station and the Gwinnett Civic Center complex is an expensive special interest pet project that does little to alleviate gridlocked traffic within the clogged I-85 Northeast Metro corridor and needlessly ignores existing rail corridors on which two heavily used and popular commuter rail lines can be implemented much quicker and at much less cost on the existing Norfolk Southern rail line that connects Atlanta to Norcross, Duluth, Suwanee, Buford, Flowery Branch, Gainesville, Toccoa, Clemson University and Greenville-Spartanburg, SC and on the CSX rail line on which the long-touted proposed “Brain Train” commuter rail line is proposed to connect Downtown Atlanta with Georgia State, Georgia Tech, Emory, Georgia Gwinnett College and UGA in Athens.
Joe, I support public participation in railroad improvements that serve Georgia Ports (as well as other railroad infrastructure investment) when the public investment produces a good return on that investment. Rail system improvments aren’t likely much going to significantly decrease truck traffic on Georgia interstates though. They would be beneficial in diverting some through traffic (where Georgia motor fuel taxes are subsidizing industry in other states as explained below), and attracting the new business of a growing Georgia economy.
The threshold of railroad improvements required to divert significant Atlanta area originating or terminating port traffic from truck to rail is high. It would be difficult to develop improvements that would improve railroad service and economics for trips less than 300-350 miles (the approximate maximum length day truck trip that includes a couple of hours picking up a load and getting out of the port) to divert Atlanta port traffic to rail. The economics aspect also includes overcoming general road users 20% capital cost subsidy to the trucking industry for road infrastructure capital investment, and the fact that public capital investment isn’t required to earn a market rate return on capital investment.
The 20% is a ballpark figure (range being a little less than 10% to nearly 50% depending on details) of the difference between motor carriers motor fuel taxes and motor carriers pavement and bridge capital costs. The 6% is a common benchmark rate of return for government investment in infrastructure (and the reason why privately funded transportation infrastructure is limited to cherry-picking).
For those that are interested, nearly one-fifth of the Savannah port traffic moves by rail. (My guess is that less than 10% of metro Atlanta international container to or from Savannah moves by rail, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s closer to 5%.) About 95% of the international container traffic to or from Georgia moves through the Savannah port (which ought to be a wake up statistic concerning the need to deepen the Savannah port channel).
Mayor Reed should be pressing Cobb to reduce the MARTA $856 million in Cobb’s TSPLOST list and add back the road projects. Otherwise, Atlanta will lose their TSPLOST projects due to Cobb “no” votes.
Who needs a T-SPLOST if every region or nearly every region in the state enacts the T-SPLOST, and a large majority of metro Atlanta projects are road projects ? In that case we’d be much, much better served by a motor fuel tax increase. It’s high school level economics.
Cut the entire $856 Million project.
Throw back in Windy Hill and 75,
and give the rest to Red Line Extension up to Holcomb Bridge, which started off at an estimated $1 Billion but was cut to like $35 Million or something (which won’t do a damn thing)
That $856.5 million estimate to build the Cumberland-Arts Center MARTA Station light rail line is a “conservative” low-end number that will likely exceed $1 billion after construction starts and we can into the usual cost overruns, delays, “unforeseen problems”, etc.
The $856.5 million to build the light rail line that would only run one mile into Cobb to Cumberland Mall comes OUT OF Cobb County’s take of $1.1 billion that will get from the TSPLOST over the ten-year life of the tax.
The cost to make improvements to the Windy Hill interchange on 75 would still be only a fraction of the billion dollars what it would cost to build the light rail line that the county would only see one mile of for many years and would leave several hundred million dollars for the county to make transportation improvements as they see fit.
Some residents have floated the idea of using that money to build a light rail line that would run east along I-285 to the Perimeter Center/Dunwoody area since that area is the destination for much of the traffic that backs up off of I-285 eastbound back onto I-75 southbound for several miles every morning of each workday and because of many Cobb residents’ trepidation about having a rail transit line with a direct connection with the much-maligned MARTA run into their county for fear that it will bring the type of crime and urban decay that is prevalent on Atlanta’s Westside.
The best use of Cobb County’s $1.1 billion take of the TSPLOST funds would probably be to make ALL of the necessary road improvements that are possible to make with the money on everything from the 75 @ Windy Hill interchange to upgrades of the Hwy 41 @ Windy Hill intersection, upgrades that might include the construction of a new interchange at the troubled intersection, to widening Windy Hill to 6-7 lanes between Austell Road and I-75, to widening Hwy 41/Cobb Parkway to 6-7 lanes from the Cumberland Blvd/Windy Ridge Pkwy intersection north all the way through Cobb County to the Cedarcrest Rd intersection near the Bartow County line, to the widening of the East-West Connector and Barrett Parkway to 6 lanes from Atlanta Rd through the commercial area over to Macedonia Rd near Powder Springs, not to mention the critically-needed widening of the still four-lane I-575 north to Canton (in a project that would also be funded with Cherokee County TSPLOST funds) and targeted upgrades to the I-75 corridor (like widening 75 where needed and the addition of extra exit only and auxiliary lanes along the Cobb County portion of the road while keeping in mind that we’ve likely reached the point where the road can’t be widened too much more south of the 75-575 junction because of the existing residential and commercial development).
After and ONLY after making ALL of the very necessary road upgrades, Cobb should then take any remaining portion of the TSPLOST funds and apply them towards the implementation of long-distance commuter rail service on the EXISTING rail lines that run through the county like the CSX rail line that runs through many established historic downtowns through the heart of Cobb and parallels gridlocked major roads in I-75 and Hwy 41 connecting Chattanooga with Downtown Atlanta.
Commuter rail service also needs to be urgently implemented on the Georgia Northeastern Railroad line that branches off from the CSX line above Marietta and runs into the North Georgia Mountains paralleling the often-gridlocked and currently undersized and overcapacity four-lane I-575 corridor and its economically developmental GA 515 exurban and rural extension north of the metro area.
A light rail connection running east along 285 to between Cumberland and Dunwoody would make alot more sense if there was a regional commuter rail line to feed into on the Cobb side. Fulton County could use its share of the TSPLOST funds to build an extension of the MARTA North Line if it wanted which probably would not be as good of a use of those funds as the implementation of express bus service or bus rapid transit in the Georgia 400 corridor north out of the North Springs MARTA Station would be, especially since there are two ramps that run right into and right out of the North Springs MARTA right onto and off of 400. Bus rapid transit could come online much quicker and at much less cost than an extension of MARTA North heavy line which would cost AT LEAST 10-15 times more than express commuter bus service and would only run six more miles up the crowded GA 400 corridor, tops.
Implementation of commuter rail service on the existing CSX and GNRR rail lines in the 75-575 corridor as well as on the two existing Norfolk Southern rail lines that run along the south end of the county and parallel two rush hour-troubled roads in I-20 and Hwy 278-6 along WITH road upgrades will help to alleviate much of the county’s worrisome traffic problems and bring a higher-quality rail transit service to suburban and exurban Northwest Metro Atlanta that will spark true economic development and be much more difficult for the urban criminal element to take advantage of because of much higher fares on commuter rail that can range from anywhere between $7-$25 one-way, which isn’t nearly as easily for petty juvenile thugs and stick-up kids to come up with as the $2.00 fare to ride the present-day MARTA is.
Heavy freight traffic on the CSXT line between Cartersville and Atlanta, and an alignment that won’t support speeds over 50mph (an absolute minimum 60mph, and preferably 70mph maximum is needed because of time lost to station stops) means new commuter service on that line would be both costly and slow. (Including stations and equipment, Cartersville service would approach $1B.) The NS line between Austell is without question the heaviest freight traffic line in Georgia, and perhaps the southeast. The use of the GNNR for commuter service is a practically a non-starter, as it wouldn’t even support 40mph speeds.
Keep-in-mind that any future commuter rail lines will open in sections and not all at once as the first part of the CSX line to become operational to commuter rail would likely be no farther out than Acworth to help provide some relief to the absolute worst most congested section of I-75 between Wade Green Rd and I-285.
Same with the Georgia Northeastern Railroad line which would likely become operational for commuter train service only as far north as Canton in the beginning as you could open up the section of the line that would be the most popular in the beginning and then expand outwards on that popularity.
Also keep-in-mind that freight rail and commuter rail trains frequently share the same rail corridors and even the same tracks in cities that have existing and established commuter rail service and heavy Amtrak train service, you just have to schedule the passenger trains around the freight trains which is not as difficult as you think as other major cities with heavy passenger rail service and heavy freight train service have been coordinating regional commuter trains, Amtrak and freight trains for over a century.
The coordination of VERY heavy, EXTREMELY high-frequency freight rail and passenger rail service in and around the VERY major railroad hub of Chicago is an example that immediately comes to mind of how easily freight trains and passenger trains can be coordinated around each other on the same tracks as in addition to very heavy, high-frequency commuter rail service, Chicago is also a major hub for Amtrak train service. Chicago is a PRIME example of a city that has Amtrak train service alone than Atlanta could ever imagine.
Even in the event that Georgia doesn’t get around to implementing commuter rail service anytime soon, it might help if we invested a little more in our road network as well as even transit heavy cities like Chicago, Toronto and Washington DC invest alot more in their road networks than even auto-overdependent Atlanta which, in comparison, has invested virtually nothing in both roads and transit for the better part of 20 years now while the population has shot up by nearly three million people in than time which is like adding the ENTIRE metro population of a Denver or Seattle (which are pretty large cities in their own right) to a metro area that already has close to three million (the Atlanta Region had 2.9 million in 1990 and has 5.8 million in 2011) and still trying to suffice with the same infrastructure you had when you had HALF the population.
As far as paying for the construction, implementation and continued operation of the heavy commuter rail service, you could take out bonds to immediately start paying for the needed upgrades of the CSX and GNRR rail lines and could start paying back the bonds with adequately-priced fares on heavy commuter bus service that could precede the commuter rail service while the lines were under reconstruction and you could payback the bonds in full with adequately-priced fares on the commuter rail service after it was up and running (as commuter rail fares start at $7 in Chicago and run as high $25 outside New York, which is worth it with the traffic and the sky-high cost of parking in those cities).
Also, the CSX freight rail line in question that parallels I-75 northwest out of Atlanta is the one that is frequently mentioned as being targeted for the implementation of high-speed rail between Atlanta and Chattanooga, so one would have to assume that track would see some substantial upgrades in the form of modification of curves and double-tracking throughout to support more frequent train service and higher speeds in at least the next half-century or so.
We keep talking about transit and rail upgrades, but what about potential road upgrades?
Dallas, one of Atlanta’s main economic competitors, in addition to now having more miles of rail transit track than Atlanta, also has more toll roads (six) than Metro Atlanta (one) and transit-dependent Washington DC, to which Atlanta is frequently compared to because of some socioeconomic and demographic similarities, is seeing its (in)famous circumferential highway, the I-495 Capital Beltway being widened from eight lanes to no fewer than twelve lanes around its entire length through both Virginia and Maryland with the addition of two HOT (High Occupancy Toll) lanes in each direction.
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