Not All Immigrants Displeased With HB87

Somehow this slipped into today’s AJC article about the looming apocalypse caused by the Illegal Immigration Reform And Enforcement Act of 2011. I suspect Dora Palanco is not the only legal immigrant who feels this way.

Arizona experienced an exodus of immigrants after it enacted a similar law last year. An estimated 100,000 Hispanics, mostly Mexicans, left the state between January and November of last year, partly because of Arizona’s law, according to a report released last year by BBVA Research, which based its findings on U.S. census data.

Dora Polanco has been witnessing a similar exodus from her perch in the ticket booth just off Buford Highway at the El Expreso bus stop in Chamblee. She said some of the Hispanic immigrants who approach her counter are leaving Georgia on buses to New York City, where mass transit is more plentiful.

A native of Costa Rica, Polanco sympathizes with the plight of the immigrants, particularly the ones who tell her they are fearful of returning to Mexico amid the drug violence there. But she is also irritated with people who enter the United States illegally and take advantage of taxpayer-funded resources here, including hospitals. She said she and her husband are both U.S. citizens who work hard and pay their taxes.

“That’s not right when you pay taxes and the others don’t,” said Polanco, who lives in Snellville. “I don’t want this country to be poor like my country.”

31 comments

  1. griftdrift says:

    Also from the article,

    “Businesses that cater to the region’s Hispanic residents say the new law has sown fear among immigrants, scaring away their customers and employees. A grocery store chain that serves Hispanic immigrants says the new law has led to sharp cuts in sales at some of its locations, forcing it to consider closing one of its spots.”

    How’s that government interfering in the market working for ya, Buzz?

      • griftdrift says:

        Wow Buzz. Really? You come up with the opinion of someone near a bus stop, I come up with an actual affect on a real business and your response is to say well, it also will curb illegal behavior? So a one solution fits all, both legal and illegal? Do you really think that’s a conservative argument?

        • If illegal aliens leave Georgia then businesses who sell stuff to them will be impacted. However, the taxpayers who have been providing services to those illegals will be better off which is what Mrs. Palanco is saying.

          You seem to be saying that our attempt to deal with illegal aliens is an unwarranted intrusion into the marketplace. I completely disagree.

        • griftdrift says:

          You’re causing a grocery story to close! How in the name of all that is holy in the sacred writs of Adam Smith is that not interfering with the market?!?! Are you saying that a merchant should be checking citizenship status before they sell someone a pack of crackers?

          One size fits all solutions. Very conservative.

          • Re-read what I said grift. You’re putting words in my mouth.

            Are you saying we should continue to allow employers to hire illegal aliens with no consequence whatsoever? Isn’t that a distortion of the market by allowing those who don’t take advantage of the lack of enforcement of federal law to gain an unfair advantage over their competitors?

          • griftdrift says:

            And now you are setting up a straw man against my putting words in your mouth.

            The problem is your law is affecting both illegal and LEGAL immigrants because of the tremendous overreach on verifying citizenship not only through employment but the possibility of it happening in a traffic stop. And it is effecting businesses who have nothing to do with whether another business hires illegal immigrants. See the grocery store.

            Does illegal immigrants distort the market? Absolutely. Does that mean the only solution is to try to remove them from the market with collateral damage to the rest of the market? Absolutely not.

            There is another solution but lord knows you can’t even mention it in your circles. Lessen regulation. Streamline a guest worker program. Make access to the available labor pool easier, not more difficult. Let me say it again. Lessen regulation.

            Instead you are going for doubling down on regulation. And that’s what it is. Requiring employers to navigate the maze that is the current resident alien process is no less a regulation on the market than requiring a coal processor to install an air scrubber on a smoke stack.

            • I have no problem with a properly run guest worker program. In fact it was part of HB87.

              The Feds have the H2A visa for agriculture workers but farmers I’ve talked to don’t use it because of the crazy rules that come with it. Since the Feds won’t ease those rules, let the States manage a guest worker program.

              Employers already are required by federal law to check the eligibility of potential employees using the I-9 form. However, it’s so easy to obtain phony documents the form is useless. E-verify is an easier and better solution in my opinion.

              • sunkawakan says:

                What business does Georgia have creating a guest worker program at all? None. And Buzz, Utah’s law attempting to do the same has been stopped, and will likely never see the light of day.

                Granted that the feds aren’t doing their job on immigration, but the sheer arrogance of state legislators who think they’re now international negotiators who should be able to create guest worker programs that have impact on the entire nation (and perhaps the world) absolutely floors me.

                Next you’ll be declaring war.

                • Please provide some backup to your comment that “Utah’s law attempting to do the same has been stopped, and will likely never see the light of day.” I can’t see where that is the case.

                  It’s not arrogance to seek a solution to this problem. The State of Georgia would not seek to become “international negotiators” but rather we’d say: if you’re a foreign national want to work here in Georgia, meet these requirements and we’ll give you a work permit. Of course federal work permits would be acceptable but in the absence of such a permit you could get a State one.

                  • sunkawakan says:

                    Buzz, from what I understand, the guest worker program in Utah won’t kick in until 2013. Eric Holder is on record saying that if Utah doesn’t come into line, the DOJ will sue. In addition, Sen. Mike Lee has said “No” loudly, as any program would require the approval of Congress.

                    I reject your argument that Georgia won’t become international negotiators. Let’s say Georgia agrees to a program with one country, but doesn’t realize that the federal government disapproves, or another state, or even another foreign country objects. It WOULD happen, and you could literally jeopardize international relations for the United States. Do YOU think that Georgians need or want that responsibility?

                    And it is arrogant for Georgia to assume powers that absolutely don’t belong to them. You screech from your platforms in the Georgia General Assembly that almost everything is federal over-reach. Now you want to take what is certainly the one issue that even SCOTUS agrees is a federal one.

                    If I were the state, I’d be hammering on our Congressman with ball peen hammers to get something done at the federal level. That IS their job.

                • I know farmers have used H2A in the past. They don’t use it anymore. It fails in many areas.

                  Did you know there is a minimum wage that goes with H2A?

                  Did you know it’s over $8 per hour?

                  Did you know it prevents farmers from paying for results instead of hours worked?

                  Did you know farmers must pay transportation to and from Mexico, even if the worker stays for one day and wants to go home?

                  Do you know it brings even more federal regulations?

                  Yeah. There are problems with H2A.

    • OleDirtyBarrister says:

      Yeah, we really should just let the black market in labor exist and let the public pay the tab for all the externalities that go with it. It really is just a myth that illegal aliens affect prevailing wages and impose a lot of burdens on schools, courts, medical facilities, and they all actually file tax returns and pay taxes. There are no shell companies set up as artifices to serve as contractors and Form 1099 scams behind which the individual alien workers hide without withholdings and unpaid taxes.

      Illegal aliens are really our friends and we should allow all of them to come here and stay so that they can do for our country what they have already done to their own country of origin.

      • You forgot to mention that it’s just a stereotype that the Mexican national government is full of corruption and that people dealing with them have to fork over money to grease the skids.

  2. ricstewart says:

    I wonder if Ms. Palanco is aware that E-Verify’s error rate is 20 times higher for legal immigrants than it is for natives.
    That being said, she makes nice points and I understand her sentiments. I just think there are more proactive ways of alleviating the problems associated with illegal immigration.

    On a semi-related note, as I’ve said before, we DESPERATELY need facts in this discussion. Georgia should commission a study on the tax contributions vs. costs of undocumented immigrants on our state budgets. Other states have done similar studies. It was extremely irresponsible for state legislators to pass this bill without 1) a fiscal note and 2) knowing whether or not undocumented immigrants are net consumers or contributors of state budgets in Georgia.

    Buzz, would you consider introducing legislation that would commission such a study?

    • It’s very difficult to study the economic impact of illegal aliens because of the “illegal” thing. You have to get people to admit they are here illegally which they don’t want to do unless they are protesting in front of the Capitol.

      There are various groups out there making estimates but I’m not sure we can use those numbers to draw any accurate conclusions from them.

  3. ZazaPachulia says:

    Buzz, you forget that immigrants pay taxes, too–regardless of legal status.

    http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/unauthorized-immigrants-pay-taxes-too

    And whenever you deliberately take active workers and consumers out of a marketplace, that marketplace will suffer. It’s simple economics.

    This whole mess is a perfect example of the politician’s logical fallacy:
    1. We must do something about this problem!
    2. Here’s something!
    3. Therefore, we must do this!

    Of course, there were other ulterior motives at stake here, like getting a certain Guvnah reelected by fulfilling a campaign promise… and getting a fast-rising ambitious GOPer some statewide name recognition (Matt Ramsey–who I used to like… so it goes)

    Oh, and the man on the street reporting is another fallacy–the journalist’s fallacy of ‘two-sided’ reporting.

    • OK so the link you provided says Georgia’s illegal aliens paid $456,321,456 in personal, property, and income taxes in 2010.

      These guys say illegal aliens cost Georgia tax payers $2.4 billion in education and medical costs in 2010.

      As I mentioned above, these are both estimates and due to the nature of this problem it’s very difficult to get an accurate picture of the financial impact.

      • griftdrift says:

        So could we at least pretend we’re going to try to figure how much crap is in the flaming paper bag before we rush to stomp on it?

    • OleDirtyBarrister says:

      Zaza:

      You accuse others of believing in prattle and then you proceed to spread it yourself. You have no evidence that many, most and certainly not all illegal aliens pay taxes. In fact, it is quite easy for them to get around it. All that is required is for a new LLC to be set up, the LLC serves as the masonry [insert whatever else] contractor, the LLC passes e-verify, the LLC gets 50 illegal aliens and issues a Form 1099 to whatever name [lots of Julio Chavez’s out there] and the pay check is issued every week or two to the “contractor” with no withholdings. The LLC files no tax return and is abandoned, and the “contractor” aliens file no returns and transfer the money back to their hellhole of origin. When the job ends or work dries up in that location, they move on to the next place and repeat the cycle.

      It would take a fool to believe that anyone who breaks the civil and criminal law to come here illegally is going to start doing other things by the book, like paying taxes. Even if they use a false SSN and there are some withholdings for FICA and OASDI, they still lie about dependents and exemptions and can have virtually no money held for income taxes. Then they simply choose not to file a tax return.

      • griftdrift says:

        You do realize there are more taxes than just income taxes. I figured you would since most “conservatives” spout off about them endlessly.

        • OleDirtyBarrister says:

          Of course I do, because most libtards continuously spout off about their enthusiasm for raising them on everyone else. But personal income taxes are the major source of govt funding at the federal level and are also very important at the state level, and the allusion to other taxes does not change anything or make the burden of illegals any less onerous.

          Having an advanced education and experience paying them has taught me a lot about them, which is why I specifically referenced multiple taxes in my post, like OASDI/FICA. They are capable of and do get around most of them, and working as “contractors” so that 1099’s issued in phony names is one of the most popular. About the only taxes that they can’t avoid is sales tax and tax on gasoline, but they can limit the amount paid by sending their money abroad and piling a whole bunch of aliens in one van for travel.

      • benevolus says:

        Why are you so obsessed with the poor people who came here to do hard work and you completely ignore the people who break multiple laws by hiring them? Shouldn’t we spend at least a little attention on the lawbreaking contractors who employ illegal labor for no other purpose but to make a greater profit than the law abiding competitor?

    • If half of illegal aliens pay federal income taxes, how many pay the proper amount?

      If a person is already here illegally, would they suddenly follow the law when it comes to listing the correct number of dependents? I think not. I believe in most cases they are effectively paying 7.65% and that’s all. Most legal citizens and residents would be thrilled with that tax rate.

      A workers program that is realistic and workable is needed and I don’t mind if that means the states have different regulations, then so be it. This doesn’t mean that the federal government doesn’t oversee the program, but a program written by pro-union officials who have no idea how an agricultural economy works isn’t the answer.

  4. saltycracker says:

    Strange coincidences:
    An interesting occurence in the schools where illegal children are routinely transferring, frequently absent, english challenged and have above the norm of problems, the recession and coming law is seeing their numbers drop (withdrawal/disappearance). There is also some influx of private school kids (tough times).

    Georgia performance standards tests are improving. Some teachers attribute these improvements to the demographic shift and some to a better educational system in Georgia. Your choice. Well in Atlanta, they might already have the answers……..

  5. Rick Day says:

    So….Mrs Planco is an immigrant, huh? From Costa Rica?

    And you are surprised a non-Mexican had criticism of Mexicans?

    Is your point “See! Even Mexican [looking] people don’t care for illegals! See how she perfectly mouths our sound bytes!”

    Except…Costa Ricans look more like blackfolk than brownfolk.

    And we all know how blackfolk feel about brownfolk in general.

    This proves nothing other than the propaganda machine is peculating along, keeping everyone divided, placid and controlled.

    • I see you’re broadening your experiences by insulting Costa Ricans now. Try learning more about them than you know about native Georgians. That’ll take about thirty seconds on Wikipedia – for most people.

      This proves nothing other than the propaganda machine is peculating along, keeping everyone divided, placid and controlled.

      And you’re a great unifying force? Um, okay. At least you’re entertaining.

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