Kool-Aid Has a Bad Aftertaste

I’ve been a Karen Handel supporter since August 2009. The frontpagers fell under scrutiny for our allegiance to her campaign. But, let’s face it, we get dirt/muck/grime/slime/you name it on EVERY candidate via the tipline on a daily basis. So, Karen was the only one we were comfortable with. I told several of my friends that I’d support whoever the Republican nominee was as long as it wasn’t Ox or McBerry (yeah right). Needless to say I was disappointed that Karen lost to Deal, but I was a man of my word and backed Deal; yes, I drank the Kool-Aid. But, given the ethics complaints against Deal, the investigation, etc. I couldn’t help but think that something was bound to come out sooner or later. Well, this massive weight of debt was EXACTLY what I was afraid of as a Republican voter in Georgia. I’m not about to paint Deal as a victim. Financing a dying business seems stupid bare minimum, and unthinkable maximum. I am now asking myself the question: “Do we want a candidate managing the finances of our state when he can’t manage his own finances?”.

The Kool-Aid is leaving a sour aftertaste in my mouth and I’m not sure how long this “Republican” voter can stomach it.

85 comments

  1. Chris says:

    Glad to see you value your dignity, self respect and soul more than partisan power.

    It might be time to start blogging here again.

  2. AubieTurtle says:

    Tyler, come on over to non-partisan world. You’ll find that you have to make excuses and go through mental gymnastics to rationalize supporting particular candidates much less frequently.

    You can still be a conservative. We have people from a wide variety of ideologies here. You just can’t blindly pledge support to a particular party and expect to be taken seriously.

    Seriously, your brain will ache a whole lot less over here and you can spend your team sport energy on deserving athletes instead of a bunch of pols.

  3. Pine Knot says:

    Nathan Deal like many Georgians and many other Americans go to great lengths to help their family. I think that many Georgians will commend Nathan for taking a chance in a private situation for his family. He will jumpstart the lives of Georgians as well. That business that he was not involved in failed, and after he makes Georgia a better state, I’m sure business will fail from time to time, even though they had a better chance and environment to operate in.

    • Hank Reardan says:

      You do not risk you entire life savings on one child. I own a sheet metal shop in Atlanta and when the time comes I will help my children in any way possible but I will not put the rest of my family at risk. He also has other children and a wife to think of, but maybe it was really his business and she was fronting for him and that is way he took all the risk.

  4. rightofcenter says:

    Tyler,
    I’m sorry but I think you are bordering on telling a big lie on this one. I’ve gone back and looked at your posts since the runoff, and if you drank the kool-aid as you claim, it was a very watered down version. I found one post that could possibly be construed as pro-Deal (if it was graded on a very generous curve). Everything else was negative to neutral. As the old saying goes, “With friends like this……”

  5. 5thGenerationGOP says:

    You know, when my son moved across the country to look for a job before finishing college in order to be with his girlfriend, and asked me to co-sign on an apartment leave before he found a job, my response was “fat chance, I’m not that dumb.” I wired him enough cash to eat and buy gas while job hunting, but that’s it.

    To invest millions in a sporting goods store with no track record does not show common sense. If he is that dumb with his own money, he will be dumb in running the state government.

    Laying aside partisan preferences, we just can’t afford for Deal to run the state even deeper in the ditch than it is already.

    • Great analogy! Was this sporting goods store the one on GA 400 that now sits empty and has a log cabin type look / design? If so, I’ve been there before and wasn’t real impressed. To find out he invested a couple million in this venture… I just can’t see it as a good investment. There’s something to be said for businesses starting small and growing into a larger operation. To invest millions in this type of venture and risking that it will become a booming success? Doesn’t seem like too smart of a move to me.

      • Lady Thinker says:

        The one around 400 north at or near 136? It isn’t a good location in my opinion if that is the one you are talking about. Didn’t that one go out of business two plus years ago? If that is the one, how did he keep the information on such a low profile for so long?

  6. fishtail says:

    Nathan Deal was a partner in the failed business venture, not just a poor sap for helping out his daughter and son-in-law. His handlers are attempting to put the best spin possible on his business activities, but he was in the deal to make money. For those of you who know how to look up on-line superior court clerk deed records, go to Habersham County Deed Book 839 pages 641-49 and see the transaction details. Nathan and his wife, not his daughter or son-in-law, borrowed $2.4 million on 2-1-2008 for land and building that’s now valued at $725,000.Their bank payment was $15,000 a month and they had a rental agreement with the business to pay rent. The business was in the middle of nowhere and sold high-dollar outdoors equipment, clothing, and hunting/fishing supplies. For example, they offered a fancy fly rod and reel for $4,000. I doubt they sold many. Folks in NE Georgia shop at WalMart for these type items. The rich dandies that occassionally come through on their way to Highlands just didn’t spend enough dough there. And we want this guy to lead our State out of the Great Recession? Get Real, say NO to Deal.

    • rightofcenter says:

      fishtail,
      Gee, you’re really grasping at straws. Just a few weeks ago, you were predicting indictments and people coming out of the woodwork to publicly accuse Deal of strong arming the state in rental deals. Now, you are apoplectic that a business deal went sour and that somehow renders him completely unqualified to be governor. Wait – maybe it was the state that was supposed to be paying rent on the building – yea, that’s it! And Bart Graham exposed this crime against the taxpayers of Georgia!

  7. GeorgiaConservative says:

    This statement coming from one of Tom Graves’ biggest supporters… ‘“Do we want a candidate managing the finances of our state when he can’t manage his own finances?”’

    Wow.

  8. When will people figure out that you Republicans can’t run anything — be it a sporting goods store, the state of Georgia, Halliburton — without a huge amount of corporate welfare.

    Leave running the public trust to the grown-ups guys — I know the voters of Georgia will in seven weeks.

  9. GAOTPC says:

    What was Deal thinking? You NEVER make loans to friends or family!! Especially in a sinking economy, DUH! Don’t try to play “victim” Mr. Deal – it was a dumb decision. Dumb decisions should not be rewarded by handing him a $20 billion state budget! YIKES!

    Where’s Karen Handel (or even Eric Johnson) when you need them?! Gosh, it seems like the GAGOP should have done something to highlight these problems…it seems like everyday our top candidate gets worse and worse.

      • Lady Thinker says:

        Don’t get jealous that Karen has accomplished more with her non-college degree than many have with their college degree. Karen accomplished more as a female politician and rose higher to crack the glass ceiling than any other female has in this state. She may be down for the moment, but she isn’t out. She will be governor but unfortunately, she will have a bigger mess to clean up that will take more than the eight years she can give.

  10. DoubleDawg3 says:

    Wait, wait, wait… is this “Tyler” “Tyler Burgess”…the very same Tyler Burgess who had ZERO problem endorsing Congressman Tom Graves who not only had a debt, but actually has a JUDGMENT against him? If so, what a hypocrite – quite crying b/c Karen Handel lost.

    I don’t mean for that to reflect poorly on Cong. Graves – Tom’s angreat guy and was easily the best choice for the 9th District, and is already showing that he’s going to be a fantastic Representative. Very glad he won. What I’m pointing out is that Graves’ situation was worse than Deal’s, because it was actually into collection stage – yet, you all of a sudden have a problem with supporting Nathan Deal b/c he owes a debt (not that he’s defaulted on a debt, or is behind on payments of a debt, just because he owes a bank money).

    Seriously man, don’t judge one person by a different standard than you have another.

  11. DoubleDawg3 says:

    But for the $700,000 cabin he has in the mountains of Habersham County…I’m sure he wouldn’t have a problem with moving there if and when his Hall Co. home sells.

    Hey, maybe he should just go ahead and move there, so all the detractors can’t use the excuse that Deal & Cagle are both from Hall Co. against both of them.

  12. NonPartisanGA says:

    It’s too late for buyer’s remorse folks. In spite of overwhelming clues about Deal’s issues and poor judgement, many chose him over Karen Handel. This was predicted and ignored by Deal advocates. I agree with Tyler “Do we want a candidate managing the finances of our state when he can’t manage his own finances?”. So what’s the plan now Dealites?

    • Lady Thinker says:

      The deal plan is to see how he can get out of debt on the backs of the taxpayers who can barely provide clothing, shelter, and food because of deal type decisions in every level of goverment. Deal is not the solution, he is the curse.

    • Ramblinwreck says:

      Too late? Absolutely! I have an almost overwhelming urge to scream “I TOLD YOU SO” but I’ll pass. This man spend nearly a generation in Congress without much regard to abiding by his oath to uphold and defend the Constitution but somehow people thought he’d be different if we could only make him Governor. I hate this for the Deal family but character counts and we had plenty of signs that he was not the best candidate for this office. I also learned that lesson after supporting him early on.

      The most valuable lessons are the ones hardest learned.

  13. Tyler,

    You are a douche bag. Whoever gave you front page posting privileges is an even bigger douche bag. I have never seen a bigger bunch of wussies in my life than most of the posters in this thread.

    You are so bitter that Deal beat your gal that you have lost all sense of fairness and decency. As for you Dumasscrats and Libertards, keep dreaming of a Barnes win or a Mond’s 10% percent final vote. Ain’t gonna happen. You can ignore the ambulance chasing failed governor’s questionable businesses and relationships all you want, but November 3rd, your governor will be Nathan Deal. Deal with it.

    • Tyler says:

      Name-calling…how original. I’ll wear your labels proudly.

      “Fairness and decency” would be calling it like I see it and that’s exactly what I did. How am I supposed to go on defending someone who has had ethics complaints against them, made unsound financial decisions, and has abused an office of power for financial gain (a lot of good it did him)?

      • DoubleDawg3 says:

        Tyler, again, why wasn’t it an issue for you with Graves & Rogers? That’s all I’m asking – both great guys, great Republicans / Conservative leaders…just like Nathan Deal.

        I’m glad that a problematic loan hasn’t changed your opinion of Chip or Tom, but why has it Nathan? I can promise you this – I know all 3 of these men and they’ve all got the skills that we need in Republicans and in elected officials. Don’t let an AJC hit piece scare you down the wrong path…if Deal files bankruptcy, or tries to skimp out on the loan, THEN you have a good reason to jump ship, but as it is, he’s worth as much as he owes, he’ll be able to cover the debt when it comes time to, and with the Governor’s salary and his Congressional pension, he’ll have a very good income (albeit, not as good as Roy Barnes $600 billable hour income).

        • B Balz says:

          Let us not forget Roy collected a high dollar fee to sue the City of Dunwoody…Bygones, good times.

          Continuing to post nettling commentary about the man who probably will be our next Governor reads as durable ‘sour grapes.’ We wait, with collective baited breathe, to hear the sage words of our high flying fisherman friend….Oh the drama!

          Y’all picked a primary candidate that was not the then-current (Ox) poll leader. Took guts and I like that. You ran contrary to the pack, because you believed the front runner was ultimately unelectable. Good stuff.

          But your candidate lost, for a wide variety of reasons. To me the most obvious is the current legislative majority did not want her and that translated to votes against her.

          Georgia faces important pragmatic and political decisions. Last year, Speaker Ralston showed tremendous skill, vision, and ability to work with the team. The ‘great game’ is a team sport, and a successful team must have a strong leader.

          In 41 days Georgians will decide on a leader. Both men are strong leaders, one has the team behind him and the other does not. It is that plain and simple.

          • bowersville says:

            While it’s true that the current legislative body was against her and that translated to votes against her it’s also true that Handel lost by what? 2500 votes? So it’s quite apparent that at least half, some 300,000 voters were not satisfied with the direction the team was taking us.

            Roy Barnes has not made the mistake Handel made. He’s not painting everyone with a wide brush. He has actually put out an ethics proposal instead of condemning the whole body. This year the team will not propose an ethics plan for obvious reasons, at least not before the election. The electorate will decide if the team effort is taking the state in the right or wrong direction.

            As for having the team behind him, it doesn’t matter. If the direction is right in the eyes of the voters, Barnes has demonstrated quite effectively that he possesses the legislative skills to pass his agenda. He earned the name King Roy for a reason.

            Let’s be quite gut level honest for a moment. Had the recent news articles that came out been about Roy Barnes poor business practices instead of Deals, the election would be over today. Deal is in this thing because he has a R beside his name. Barnes will lose because of the D beside his name. No more, no less.

            • B Balz says:

              Bowersville, that is true, we are a majority Red state in a year with a distinct anti-Dem sentiment.

              I wonder what the number crunchers would predict if all the ‘city mice’ and soft R’s came out to vote?

              Would that be enough to swing this to Roy?

              • bowersville says:

                I don’t think so, not today anyway. Too much anti-D sentiment. Too much linkage to Obama.

                But I have to ask myself, why would the DGA be pouring $1.5 million into Barnes’ hands. There has to be something encouraging them besides what we know now.

                  • bowersville says:

                    I don’t disagree, I just don’t agree based on what I know today.

                    This thing is going to play out and if what we have seen is an indicator, Barnes hasn’t missed a beat and bad news on Deal continues to dominate the news cycle.

        • “… (albeit, not as good as Roy Barnes $600 billable hour income)…”

          I do like how most Republican’s shots at Barnes have just a sprinkling of class warfare in them. But let’s not let principle stand in the way of winning, right?

          • DoubleDawg3 says:

            Not intended as a “shot” at Roy Barnes, just a statement of fact. The man makes good money in his law practice because he: 1) is a great trial attorney, and 2) is a former Governor.

            I don’t fault him at all for the money he’s able to make in his law practice, heck, if you go through the scrutiny of being Governor, you ought to be able to cash in afterwards.

            I was simply stating that if Deal were desperate for money, he’d do what Roy’s been doing for the past 8 years – make a nice buck at the private law practice gig.

            • “I was simply stating that if Deal were desperate for money, he’d do what Roy’s been doing for the past 8 years – make a nice buck at the private law practice gig.”

              You mean to say that should Deal become Governor, he would become a trial lawyer (just like he’s been criticizing Roy Barnes for being and just like he once was) after he left office? 🙂

      • GeorgiaConservative says:

        “How am I supposed to go on defending someone who has had ethics complaints against them, made unsound financial decisions…”

        Well you did a good job at defending your bud Tom Graves when he was accused of FRAUD.

  14. You, Icarus, et al are sore losers. Plain and simple. You sit there and give Roy a pass for his shady dealings and fain outrage at Deal. Get use to this Tyler, you’ll hear it a lot starting November 3rd, “Governor Deal, Governor Deal, Governor Deal, Governor Deal, Governor Deal, Governor Deal.”

  15. DoubleDawg3 says:

    I just don’t get the “outrage” here…is Deal suppossed to be sitting on $2-3 million cash just because he’s running for Governor? As it is, assuming EVERYTHING in the AJC piece is true (I’m sure we’re missing some favorable facts to Deal) – then Deal is 1) current on his loan, 2) has no judgment against him, and 3) has significant enough assets that he CAN & WILL cover the loan which he signed for when it comes due in Feb. 2011. Does the AJC article say – “Nathan Deal can’t pay this loan back” …NO, it says, if and when he sales other assets, he’ll have the money to pay it back but will be “effectively” insolvent (I’m guessing they don’t have access to every dollar that Deal has, however).

    If he’s got the assets to cover it, then has no other debts, and has a pretty nice pension from being in Congress (plus his business income), what is the concern? He seems perfectly content to retire to the cabin he owns in Habersham Co. after his public service ends — why is his situation any different than the majority of Georgians? Quick Answer – it’s NOT. The AJC just wants you to believe it is.

    • Progressive Dem says:

      I’ll tell you “what is the concern”. A 68 year-old man has blown his (and his wife’s) life savings on a sporting goods business in the middle of nowhere. It’s a pretty poor display of judgement, financially and otherwise. It would not be at all surprising if it doesn’t cause incredible strains on the relationships in his family. No, he isn’t out on the street, but just because he has a federal government pension and government healthcare for life, it doesn’t mean it is ok to blow $4 million.

      His situation is much different than the majority of Georgians. Few Georgians have millions in the kind of assets that would allow them to invest in this kind of business regardless if it was “for the children.” While many people are losing their homes, they are losing them to forclosure and they are not in their late 60’s. It’s really pretty stupid management of his personal finances. That may be the common denominator to other Georgians who are upside down in real estate, but that is hardly a qualifier for governor.

  16. DoubleDawg3 says:

    One last follow up, given Congress’ inaction, thus far, on extending the Estate Tax cuts that Bush ushered in, is being 68 and not having a large taxable estate really a bad thing? I think Nathan Deal will be just fine with the Congressional pension & Governor’s salary come next Jan (which would be what, $275,000+ per year in salary – not to mention his business income), so I wouldn’t worry about him being broke anytime soon.

  17. rightofcenter says:

    DoubleDawg,
    Let me explain the “outrage”. This blog has about a dozen Deal haters who delight in painting him in the worst possible light (you can see the same posts, sometimes verbatim, on the AJC political blogs). Earlier, the posts were all about his “ethics problems” – including a lot of predictions that he would be indicted soon. When that tactic didn’t seem to work (at least according to the polls), they resorted to disparaging the intelligence of the Georgia electorate. Now, like starving dogs going after a biscuit, they are latching onto this latest AJC revelation (never mind the hypocrisy that is ably pointed out above in reference to Graves). When this, too, fails to move the dial, they will once again curse Georgians for their stupidity. Don’t worry – the AJC will dig up something else that it can distort in a couple of weeks – and we’ll get to do it all again.

    • DoubleDawg3 says:

      Nice summary. I just found it really amusing tonight that Tyler was so hacked off with Deal, given his past support of other candidates (which past support I was happy with and agreed with ENTIRELY — b/c the economy is a big pile of crap right now, so a great leader shouldn’t be disqualified over a legitimate business issue).

      What really, honestly, gripes me is the fact that I spend a lot of my time supporting the GA Republican party (in local/state involvement, money, direct campaign work, etc.) and we’ve got “Republican leaders” on this site who are trying to convince themselves and others that 4-8 years of Roy Barnes is better than Nathan Deal? It’s complete BS. If you’re still feeling that Handel, or EJ, or Ox were better candidates – that’s fine, but realize it’s not happening, that boat has sailed.

      I’ll commend Buzz – he’s the true “team player” in this whole PP operation. He’ll make a great legislator…maybe Nathan Deal will make him an Asst. Floor Leader? haha.

  18. DoubleDawg3 says:

    Speaking of elected officials and their financial status…I’d invite all of you to do a quick Google search of “America’s Poorest Presidents” – you’ll see the likes of Harry Truman, Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Jefferson are routinely found.

    Hum, those guys were real scumbags and terrible leaders, huh?

  19. fishtail says:

    A couple years ago Congressman Jack Kingston, at the urging of a couple more Republican colleagues, asked Mike Bowers for some advice about the various business activities of Nathan Deal. Kingston et al. were concerned about Deal’s frequent absenses from Washington and the nature of his business dealings. Perhaps Jack Kingston can shed a little light on this info if he bothers to read PP.

      • fishtail says:

        This info comes from an attorney in Atlanta who knows Bowers and talks with him frequently, not from any Kingston contact.

        • DoubleDawg3 says:

          Considering how whole heartedly Kingston endorsed Deal after EJ (his close personal friend) was out of the race…yeah, I’m sure it was terrible & sinister.

          I love the “concerned about frequent absences” from Washington…hum, sounds so “mysterious”. But, you’ve got to hate those silly little “facts” that get in the way of a good rumor.

          Now, lets throw this most recent session of Congress out, since he was campaigning in GA, lets go back to the 110th Congress (’07-’08) where Deal missed a whopping 4.7% of votes…heck, he made 6 more votes than the MINORITY WHIP (Roy Blunt) – isn’t the Whip kind of supposed to be at most votes? Deal’s was one of the better percentages in the 110th and in the 109th (he missed 5.9% in the 109th).

          Just because the guy flew home every weekend to be with his family and church family, and didn’t stick around DC to wine & dine with lobbyists, doesn’t mean he was up to bad things.

  20. Doug Grammer says:

    Tyler,

    I think you are a great guy most of the time. However, in this case, I’m going to ask if you would like a little wine with your whine. Nathan Deal will be able to pay back the loans win or lose. Entrepreneur is French for risk taker. Not all businesses succeed. Even if he did declare bankruptcy, which I don’t think will happen, he will be in the same company of men like Donald Trump and Sam Walton (Sam’s, Wal-mart). Are you going to state that these men are bad business men as well?

    Even if it wasn’t a 100% business decision, and it may have been, he was supporting a member of his family. Not every Georgian can do so on that large a level, but many family members support each other even if it doesn’t make 100% perfect business sense. I think this may get him more votes than it will cost him.

    And I am still waiting on you to take down all those remaining Karen Handel signs that you put up in NW Georgia. I didn’t put them up and I shouldn’t have to clean up after you. If I did, that means I’d be treating you like a little kid who doesn’t get their way and cries when their candidate doesn’t win.

    • fishtail says:

      You may wish to keep the Handel signs up, as she might very well be the GOP candidate in November if Nathan Deal keeps imploding.

      • Doug Grammer says:

        If Nathan Deal passed away, and that’s the only way I see him not being ready to be Gov., I’d have a say on who the nominee would be.

        If your candidate loses, take the signs down that you put up. Your community will thank you for it.

    • Oh for crying out loud! Nathan Deal as Donald Trump or Sam Walton?!?!? Your delusion is absolutely mind bending. What do you think separates folks who take risk and win and folks who take risk and wind up owing $4million while they’re trying to run for Goveror? It ain’t dumb luck

        • Doug Grammer says:

          Did I say he was a Trump or a Walton? No, but I mentioned two people who had declared bankruptcy who are still widely considered good businessmen. If I am making you mad just by mentioning them, I guess it was the right thing to say.

          • That’s the only thing he has in common with those two men, so I don’t understand the comparison. That would be like me showing up to a job interview and saying, “I’m near-sighted just like Bill Gates” and expecting them to believe I was a genius and hire me on the spot.

            • Doug Grammer says:

              He doesn’t have that much in common with them now. He hasn’t declared Bankruptcy yet and probably won’t.

      • AubieTurtle says:

        The Karen crew were comparing her to Bill Gates during the primary so why not let the Deal loyalist have their turn at making absurd comparisons? It’s only fair.

    • Tyler says:

      Doug,

      My problem with Deal is his ethics, always has been. The fact is that he used his office to maintain a state program with his salvage business. This recent news brings to light why he did it, to help keep his finances afloat. Any way you slice this cake, it’s wrong.

      If any of the “news scoops” I’m getting via private email come to fruition, this isn’t all that’s out there on Deal. So brace yourself just in case. I’m not openly campaigning for anybody right now except Austin Scott (110% committed to his campaign).

      Also, I’ve picked up every Karen sign I’ve seen and was told that my signs were already taken up. If you saw signs I put up, the correct thing would be to call me via cell (which you have) and tell me which ones need to be picked up rather than try and contact me about it on a public blog. I view you as a friend, but the real “childish” act is not calling me first.

      • Doug Grammer says:

        Your second sentence has the word fact as the second word as it relates to something that is not a fact. The program was not maintained. You may allege that the purpose of the third meeting was to maintain it, but the depositions, the report, and even the testimony of Graham all mention that Congressman Deal’s focus was on safety.

        If you want to buy into everything that you read (and even read more into them that what is there), that’s your right. I usually reserve judgment until more facts are in.

        I have seen plenty of signs from other candidates that are still up: Smith, Cates, Hawkins, and more. However, the campaign supporters (who I usually do not know) who put the signs up for those candidates aren’t actively campaigning against the nominee. I shouldn’t have to call you to let you know where the signs are that you put up. Most of them are gone, but if you want me to call you when I see one, I will.

  21. Progressive Dem says:

    “Another day older and deeper in debt”
    Is this quote from Tennesse Ernie Ford, or Nathan Deal?

    In another “oversight” Nathan Deal has said today that his debts are greater than reported in the (“liberal”) AJC. He and his business partner in the salvage yard owe another $2.85 million. Somehow the former Congressman failed to report this in his previous financial disclosure to the State Ethics Committee.

    Ho.Humm. What’s another million or so. Is that $700,000 Habersham County “cabin” in danger, now?

    These are not the actions of a fiscal conservative. These are bad business decisions. These aren’t even good parenting skills. This is bad judgement and sloppy management.

    Galloway has the story.
    http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/09/16/nathan-deal-acknowledges-more-debt-but-says-he-wont-release-more-financial-data/

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