Quote of the Day

“America started with a concept of limited government, designed to protect and improve the life, liberty and property of citizens, and has ended with a concept of unlimited government, capable of restricting our life, liberty and property in the name of protecting us from ourselves. America started with a concept of residual individual sovereignty, designed to respect the autonomy and equality of citizens, and has ended with a concept of limited liberty, presumptively unavailable and parsed out reluctantly by an all-powerful sovereign. America started with a concept of federalism, designed to better protect individual liberty, and has ended with a concept of nationalism, exercised vigorously to stifle controversial liberties recognized by the state. We have done all of this, experienced these foundational changes, without the benefit of a constitutional amendment. We have allowed mere legislative majorities, often motivated by morality, passion, and prejudice, to take away our most precious liberties. We should be ashamed.” – Elizabeth Price Foley, author of Liberty for All

This is one of my favorite quotes.

Consider this an open thread.

53 comments

    • Jason says:

      What she is saying is that we are not the America that our Founding Fathers envisioned. Constitutionally protected liberties have been under attack from all sides and put up for a majority vote, turning us from a republic to a democracy.

      • travis fain says:

        She says it ended. Says it three times right there in those paragraphs.

        Maybe I need to read the whole book for a list of the “precious liberties” I’ve lost, but sitting here tonight in Garner, N.C., I feel pretty free.

        • Jason says:

          The vision of America that our Founding Fathers saw has ended. That’s what she is saying. Free speech has come under attack in the form of campaign finance law, the Fourth Amendment has come under attack through wiretapping programs and the PATRIOT Act, the Fifth Amendment has come under attack via Kelo-style takings, an expanded Commerce Clause where the government can force you to purchase health insurance, etc.

          It’s not whether Travis Fain feels free. It’s the fact that what is supposed to protect us has been systematically taken apart.

          • Mike Stucka says:

            The Founding Fathers who passed the Alien and Sedition Acts, and whom required health insurance?

            Or maybe you want to move on to other revolutionary times, as when Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, told states they didn’t have a right to leave, and drastically recast property rights?

            Or later, with the Comstock laws and Jim Crow?

            (Note: I’m not arguing any of those are good or bad, just that these things tend to be somewhat cyclical, and we often ignore, forget about or don’t learn our history.)

            Hi, Travis.

              • ZazaPachulia says:

                “I’m well aware of those points in our history, but last 80 years have been especially bad.”

                Compared to what exactly?
                I seem to remember the end of Jim Crow and a series of landmark supreme court decisions over the last 80 years, granting all of us the rights outlined in the Constitution… (Gideon v. Waignwright, Brown v. BoE, Topeka, Mapp v. Ohio, Miranda v. Arizona, Tinker v. Des Moines, Brandenburg v. Ohio…. etc.)

                The last 80 years is worse than what previous 80 year stretch in U.S. history? And before answering that question, pretend for a moment that you’re not a white male.

                  • ZazaPachulia says:

                    Again, what 80 year period in America outside of 1930-2010 has been better as far as rights and liberties are concerned?

                    I ain’t saying that things are perfect, but I would not compare the last 80 years to other periods as “especially bad.”

                    I contend that the last 80 years have been better for civil rights and liberties in America than any other 8 decade period in the country’s history. It’s pretty hard to argue that point, since all of the other 8 decade epochs failed to deal with civil rights… most refused women’s right to vote and the first 80 years included the institution of slavery… So just be careful with your exaggerations…

  1. Progressive Dem says:

    What? No post on Ken Mehlman coming out of the closet? What will all the gay bashing Republicans do? He is going to support gay marriage, too. How could a gay person run the GOP and the president’s re-election campaign? I’m shocked. He sure as hell couldn’t have been qualified to run Handel or Deal’s campaign.

    • ZazaPachulia says:

      notice the crickets? Too bad folks like Lynn Cheney and Mehlman can’t get a seat at the policy table today.

      • Erick's Mortal Enemy says:

        I’m not talking about truth. Let’s discuss the words “elitism,” “narcissism,” and while we’re at it “the people’s role in government.”

        Or how about the idea that the vote matters more than the dollar?

        I’m not talking about the sad realities of politics– I know them, but I do not accept them, nor do I condone them. Cagle, however, does.

        • polisavvy says:

          You are singing to the choir. I agree with you. Too bad there are too many narcissistic elitists telling us what our role IS in government instead of listening to what we’d like THEIR role to be in government.

          • Erick's Mortal Enemy says:

            I know I am. You tend to be one of the more rational of folks here. I just wonder what some of our more…radical…friends have to say about this quoteski.

            • polisavvy says:

              I have no idea what some of them will think; but, I bet we’ll find out soon enough, won’t we? Thanks for thinking I’m rational — my husband might disagree! LOL!!

            • LoyaltyIsMyHonor says:

              Calling people you disagree with “narcissistic elitists” makes one a “rational folk”?

              • polisavvy says:

                Come on Loyalty. You see these people all the time. You know as well as anyone else that some are narcissistic elitists (or have that mentality). That’s why some behave in the manner in which they behave. It doesn’t make me not rational because I feel that way. After all, it’s my opinion. I’m not saying it right and I’m not saying your opinion is wrong; but, think about it. You know exactly what I’m talking about.

              • Erick's Mortal Enemy says:

                I only called him that because of the clip. His general behavior lends itself more towards “corrupt” and “liar.” And “beej.”

  2. LoyaltyIsMyHonor says:

    Oh yes, let’s go back to what our Founding Fathers had wanted: Slavery, only white male land owners should have the right to vote, counting black people as 3/5th of a person, steam rolling American Indians out of the way….etc.

      • LoyaltyIsMyHonor says:

        What did I write that was incorrect or a lie? Without a doubt, our founding fathers were honorable men, but we can’t make blanket statements like, “let’s go back to what our founding fathers intended” or “Let’s go back to what the Constitution was originally intended” and ignore the bad.

        “America started with a concept of residual individual sovereignty, designed to respect the autonomy and equality of citizens,”

        How can you read that sentence and not *eyeroll*?

        • seenbetrdayz, Ph.D. says:

          Since being a white male probably automatically invalidates anything I have to say on the issues of the founders, maybe this video will help:

          The opening statements are fairly eloquent, and Morgan Freeman is not an idiot by any means. He seems to have a better understanding that our history contains ideas worth building on, and some worth tossing out. Of course, there will always be people who want to throw babies out with bathwater.

  3. ieee says:

    Given what the vast majority of “people” living in the U.S. want these days, her book should have been titled “Liberty for All (except SEX OFFENDERS)”. The majority in this country today will go for just about any P.O.S., moronic idea that anyone throws in front of them as long as it punishes/harasses people who are listed on a SEX OFFENDER Registry. I expect that applies to the majority of the readers here at Peach Pundit as well. But, make no mistake, those people are not Americans. If you are one of them, you are a disgrace and you should renounce your citizenship.

    Here is just a small, small example of what those “people” like:

    a) Georgia passed a law to force Registered people out of homes that they own – because they suddenly decided the homes were “too close” to a park, swimming pool, or whatever.

    b) Some counties in Florida have made it illegal for a Registered person to go to any beach on the ocean. And yet they still have the nerve to force those people to pay taxes like they have some sort of obligation to society.

    c) Illinois recently passed a law that requires a Registered person to notify the criminal government if he/she is going to travel away from his/her residence for more than 3 days. Of course, the Registered person must provide the criminals with an itinerary (“show me your papers!!”). A whole sh*tload of similarly moronic laws were passed at the same time by one of the foremost criminal governments that can’t even pay the bills it already has.

    d) Georgia passed a law that required Registered people to provide the criminal governments with access to their e-mail accounts. A huge majority of people loved this law. The very owner of Peach Pundit evidently thought this was an acceptable law. A lot of the people said the law was just “common sense”. Of course, people with sense realize that those people really don’t have much sense.

    The SEX OFFENDER witch hunt is just another episode in this country’s long history of doing fairly heinous things to the hated minority of the moment. The people who support these laws today are the same types of people who not so long ago would have been so hatefully offended that coloreds were trying to share their water fountains.

    My family has a very long and wide history of serving the U.S. When I was in college, I did a lot of preparatory work to serve in a military branch. I guess I’m thankful that I never took that route. One thing I know for sure is that this country is not the country I grew up loving or would EVER think about serving. I don’t expect that to change in my lifetime.

    • Erick's Mortal Enemy says:

      Yeah, good luck finding sympathetic ears here. If you molest a child, frankly I think that some of these laws are letting you off too easy.

      • polisavvy says:

        Yup! I agree with you on this, too. You should have all sorts of rights taken away from you if you harm a child PERIOD. This type of thing shouldn’t even be up for discussion. You play, you pay.

        • ZazaPachulia says:

          I completely agree with the molestation comments. But there is a sliding scale with that sort of thing. An 18 year old male who has consensual relations with a 15 year old female and is convicted of statutory rape (and placed on the sex offender list) is a lot different than the adult male who molests pre-pubescent children… However, the two are treated the same once they’ve served their time — at least when it comes to the sex offender registry.

          • LoyaltyIsMyHonor says:

            Agreed. The people who can’t make that distinction had bought into the Keene/Richardson/Christian Right Disinformation Machine. Which explains why the legislature had to very quietly amend the Sex Offender law last session.

          • polisavvy says:

            Perhaps I should have been clearer. I feel like you do about the whole 18 and 15 year old thing. I’m more concerned about the molestation of children. I don’t consider a 18 or 15 year old children when it comes to them having sex. A 15 year old knows what sex is all about and more times than not agrees to be a party to the sex. It’s consensual in most cases. They should not be in a list. There is a difference between consensual sex and forced sex. If an 18 year old rapes a 15 year old then it’s a whole new ball game (no pun intended).

            • Erick's Mortal Enemy says:

              Yeah I can agree with that. I mean there is absolutely a difference between a high school couple and a 45-year-old balding man named Fred assaulting a 9 year old.

        • ieee says:

          All kinds of rights, huh? Including just random, miscellaneous rights that have nothing to do with public safety or the big lie of “protecting children”? Because that is what many of these SEX OFFENDER laws are all about. Anyone with an objective mind can easily see that a huge number of these laws are just to harass/punish people and make ignorant, uninformed, hateful people feel better.

          So, I take it that you think the examples that I gave are the “sorts of rights” that should be taken away. And at any time that any criminal government feels like it? Not when a person is sentenced, but later, at any time, on a whim, for the rest of a person’s life. That makes you …. not …. an …. American.

          But hey, if it makes people feel better, who cares how big our Nanny governments are? They should be “protecting” us from these SEX OFFENDERS in every possible way they can dream up, everywhere, all the time. Forget supervising our own children. I just wish people like you would step up, not complain about paying taxes, and pay and pay and pay. I’m tired of paying far, far more than my fair share.

      • ieee says:

        I could not possibly care less about “sympathetic ears” or sympathy in any way. What I would like is for the majority of people to stop acting like complete, idiotic, immoral morons. The people who did something to end up on a Registry were legally punished for whatever it is they did. And contrary to constant, lying propaganda campaigns, the punishment is almost always quite severe and sufficient.
        Is the problem only if someone “molests a child”, as you said? Is it okay to not worry about Registering someone who lives across the street from a school, gets mad about students cutting across his yard, and then takes a shovel, bashes one in the face with it, and then proceeds to nearly beat him to death? Is that okay? Is it okay that we Register people who have exposed themselves to women but we don’t even talk about Registering the shovel beaters?
        How about masked people who break into their neighbors’ homes in the middle of the night, beat the families, and hold them at gunpoint while they rob them? Oh yeah, since we don’t care about adults as much, add this – they beat the precious children and point guns at them as well. Is it okay not to Register those people? Because they aren’t dangerous? Contrast that to your hated child molester who really might try to groom your child for eventual sexual abuse but literally ALL you have to do to stop it is educate and supervise your child. Literally. Yeah, I guess you’re right, that does sound so much more dangerous.
        SEX OFFENDER laws, and especially, especially, all the idiotically useless tag-along laws that they have enabled (e.g. Banishment) are immoral. I can go into great detail about why that is, but I expect that many of the good, self-righteous people who support these laws don’t really care much about morality. What people should care about is that the laws are counterproductive. Think about that objectively for a bit. Experts don’t support these laws. Politicians and similar people do.
        The laws are also anti-American. Good Americans care about things like that despite how much they like harming the minorities that the laws target.

    • Lady Thinker says:

      “Liberty for All (except SEX OFFENDERS)”

      Tell that garbage to the under thirteen crowd who have been victimized by adult men who can’t relate to women their own age.

      • ieee says:

        I realize you probably have very great difficulty thinking about this objectively. That doesn’t excuse anyone from supporting the criminal governments that have passed these laws. The people who are Registered are on the moral high road today. The people who support these laws are not.

        All kinds of people hurt all kinds of people in various ways. There is no reason at all to single out “SEX OFFENDERS” for stupid post-sentence harassment/punishment (and there are many, many reasons not to).

        • Lady Thinker says:

          I don’t have” a very great difficulty thinking about this objectively” because I have dealt with the ten-year-olds and older who were raped by adult men caring more about their depraved, disgusting, and selfish pleasures than the innocence of the girls they raped. There is nothing normal about craving children for sexual gratification.

          And then there are the offenders that raped and murdered two seven-year old girls that I helped prosecute. So no, I don’t have “a very great difficulty thinking about this objectively” because if I were queen for a day, you and others like you would be dead and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

          • ieee says:

            “… because if I were queen for a day, you and others like you would be dead and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.”

            Now there’s the “person” I guessed you were. You don’t know a damn thing about me. You’re an idiot. Whether you know it or not, you are not capable of thinking of this, or I would guess much else, objectively.

            Experts don’t support these laws. People like you do. The laws are counterproductive but people like you care more about harassing people than what the laws accomplish.

            Why don’t you try not speaking to me and then you’ll waste no more of your brilliant time? Go prosecute people and believe you are making this country a better place.

            • Lady Thinker says:

              Once you admit you are a pedophile I know that you prefer children as sex objects and that you are narcissistic in nature, caring more about your depravity than the rights of innocent children. You still their life and plunge them into a depression and despair that knows no bounds.

              Do I know your real name and other particulars? No I don’t and with an IQ of 143, I am no idiot, a person defined as having a low IQ. You are a criminal using excuses to justify what you do and you strive to present yourself as a social victim of a horrendous crime that you want society to support.

              So I will waste my brilliant time making sure that you and people like you, have as few rights as legally possible for the rest of your miserable and disgusting life. I do believe there are far more people in my court that you could ever get in yours.

              • Lady Thinker says:

                Should be you “steal” their life. And for further clarification, I am making the world a better place for those of us who follow the law and a worst place for pedophile criminals like you.

              • ieee says:

                Why would you waste your time responding to me?

                You are an idiot. You lied “You are a criminal using excuses to justify what you do and you strive to present yourself as a social victim of a horrendous crime that you want society to support.”

                You said, “what you do”. I don’t “do” anything so that makes you a liar. I did something a very long time ago and that is it, no matter how much you are compelled to fantasize a different reality. Further, I have never excused what I did. Stating something to the contrary makes you a liar. Further, I don’t want “society to support” any crime, let alone a “horrendous” one. Stating that I do makes you a liar.

                Liar, I don’t support pedophilia. I have never molested a child and never will. I expect that you are more likely to do so than I.

                I was molested and victimized as a child, and yet, there is nothing wrong with me. That did not “steal my life”. I did not suffer very long because of it (since you are mentally challenged, let me emphasize that I am not stating whether or not other people have). And as much as you and others apparently like it when people use that as an excuse to abuse others, I’ve never done that.

                You can try and do whatever you like to help make sure that I have as “few rights as legally possible”. You and the other scumbags have done a pathetic job and I GUARANTEE that you will do no better. Despite millions of your kind, I have done better and better over the past decade. I could hardly pray for a better life. You people really are great motivation. You can dream that my life is “miserable and disgusting” but that does nothing to change reality.

                You are part of the huge Nanny government machine that cannot possibly get enough money. You and your kind live off the backs of other people. I am going to continue to help do everything reasonable to take as much money and resources away from the criminal governments as possible. If I reach my goal, 95% of you will be looking for a real job.

                In the mean time, your precious retroactive SEX OFFENDER laws will continue to provide negligible benefits at huge cost. I am around children all the time only because of those laws and wonderful people like you. Doing that is a bit of a burden, but the correct, moral response to the tyranny of the majority is to tell them where to shove it.

                • Lady Thinker says:

                  You must be Ray McBerry because your reasoning is very much like his. Everything is everybody else’s fault and everybody but you is a liar and/or an idiot. Maybe you should get therapy for your anger and your special “problem” Ray. I just hope you never get to teach again.

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