103 comments

    • Pine Knot says:

      That is why the Libertarian Party is never going amount to anything, anytime, any place. All they do is help out ObamaCrats. Thanks for the contribution Libertarians. I was privately contemplating voting Libertarian if Karen won, but I decided against it even if she won. JK and anyone else on the live chat of the primary run off could tell you that, even when Karen looked as if she was going to win. I was saying all this when the numbers looked bad for Deal in counties he should have won big in…until Gwinnett came in……….

    • Doug Grammer says:

      Let me get this straight…your guy basically calls the GOP candidate a Nazi, and the head of the Georgia LP party’s response is to call the GOP candidate more names, and blame him and the GOP for his actions?

      I have asked “John who?,” because Monds has no name recognition. He has about $1,000 cash on hand the last time I looked, he has no job, and has lost at running for office twice already. No one can tell me what he’s done to qualify himself to run for Governor. Having an education helps, but there are plenty of people in Georgia with an education. The same goes with helping out with 501-C3‘s.

      All that being said, I’ve never called Mr. Monds a Nazi or any other name. I think your guy hit his pot stash before it’s legal, and I think you may have joined him. You are now heading into less than 5% territory. Keep up the good work.

      • macho says:

        The Libertarians have had some interesting and thought provoking candidates running for Governor and Senate over the last few elections; John Monds isn’t one of them.

  1. macho says:

    I get so sick of the race card being dropped on this issue. One group wants some border security and immigration enforcement the other group doesn’t. Wanting immigration enforcement is not so crazy, since most civilized countries don’t allow illegal immigrants to stay within their borders indefinitely.

    It can’t just be a legitimate disagreement over immigration policy, it has to be racism. Whenever I speak with a bleeding heart on this issue, it always ends up being an emotional argument. Seems to always go something like this:

    Do you think we should have an immigration policy and laws enforcing the policy?

    Yes

    What about the immigrants who are disobeying our laws and are living here without permission; should they be sent back?

    No, that would be impossible

    What about people in other countries, who are paying money, and waiting months (sometimes years), to legally enter our country – should they be put ahead of those we give amnesty to?

    (never get any rational response on this one)

    So you want strong laws, but you don’t want them to be enforced?

    You’re a racist.

    • macho says:

      I know many libertarians believe in wide-open borders, which might be possible in a non-welfare state. But in our country, with endless government welfare programs from education and food to subsidized healthcare, open borders are an impossibility.

    • Rick Day says:

      *shrugs* it is what it is… profiling by skin color is the default for White America™

      Those of you who are slaves to your Deal who you support: why don’t you spend some time with people in Ellijay, or Blairsville or Tifton. This group of white afraid voters is the base of the GOP. To deny that race is a MAJOR dynamic in this debate is to further erode your “superior” moral position.

      It is far easier to admit one is against some abstract as ‘illegal immigration’ than it is to admit that the Arizona Law (the subject matter) does not tickle the fancy of most WhiteFolk™ who would love to have a law that prevents The BrownFolk™ from living next door.

      Comparing Deal to Nazis; Not a fair comparison, I’ll admit. At least the skinheads in LA are open about their racism, unlike..well…you know The Deal™ & Co.

      • BoogDoc7 says:

        YES!

        We win!

        Seriously. If you can’t see past the racist argument, you won’t ever move forward on race in this country.

        Do you come from that part of the left which is unable to see that a conservative viewpoint can come from something OTHER than race…like the Rule of Law or national defense?

  2. I Am Jacks Post says:

    The things people will say to try to move from the “also running are . . .” category all the way to a healthy 3% . . .

    It’s worth noting that the head of the Libertarian ticket is a senior NAACP official. The NAACP that ran the James Byrd TV spots. Yeah, that NAACP.

  3. bowersville says:

    Someone should have warned the Libertarian operations director that there is alternative apparel and different transportation modes available than tin foil hats and black helicopters.

      • bowersville says:

        I didn’t open the door for such a sarcastic remark, the Libertarian Director of Operations did.

        Deal and the Neo-Nazis have something in common and Libertarians want to be taken seriously?

        Deer meet headlight.

  4. Gary Cooper says:

    Seriously? That is your response to our preference to border enforcement? And you wonder why no one takes the Libertarian Party seriously.

    Poor Monds, this will ensure he gets no more than 3% of the vote.

    • Rick Day says:

      LOL

      LOL

      If you think that someone is going to change their voting habit because of some small story in some backwater county by a GOP Operative posing as a “journalist”, then have I got a Deal™ for you!

    • macho says:

      It’s all about the free market – sovereignty is simply an impediment to matching a worldwide labor force to the worldwide job openings.

  5. saltycracker says:

    Might want to revisit those polls and slide a few libertarian %’s over….
    Even Boortz will have to run for cover…….

  6. Harry says:

    Uh, At least NathanD and RoyB have some sanity. I can’t begin to imagine what this state would look like under the Monds Libertines.

    • Rick Day says:

      Change you would probably like, but Monds would be assassinated after he dismantled the lobby fueled Spoils System. You know..the one you blindly support?

      I’d vote for NOTA before I voted for Deal or Barnes. If Monds is the NOTA option currently denied by the Voting Commission then he is what he is.

  7. bowersville says:

    Godwin’s law: “As a usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”

    Tradition has held that the one making the comparison to Hitler or the Nazi’s has lost the argument and the argument is over.

    There are only two choices for votes in the election on this issue. The R or the D.

    This comparison of Nazi came from the Libertarian director of operations. The Libertarian is out.

    Oh, by the way if you believe the border should be controlled, by extension the Libertarian operations director believes you are a Nazi too.

    • Lady Thinker says:

      My uncle was captured and tortured by the Germans when his plane was shot down during World War II. He still has a number branded into his arm that at age 85, is still visible. He gave the Air Force 20+ years of his life and has never fully recovered from event. He was freed a month later when American troops came to his aid.

      I can’t stand the thought of Steal Deal being governor, however, I say all this to explain why throwing around the Nazi word is a sore subject with me.

      • My grandparents were from a small town in eastern Poland. They immigrated before WII. When the Nazis arrived, they killed off most of the town either through executions or sending the people to concentration camps. My grandparents never heard from any of the family again after the war was over.

        • Lady Thinker says:

          I am so sorry you had to go through that. I just don’t get mass murder at any time, especially with what goes on with the cruelties of war.

  8. Jeff says:

    I resigned from the LP-Ga ExComm more than a month ago, and I am FAR from a friend of Brett Bittner, but how is this in any way different from the GOP trying to tie StormFront around Ron Paul’s neck, as evidenced on this very blog?

    Also note that Brett did NOT call Nathan Deal a Nazi (though he most certainly IS a racist), he simply said Nathan Deal and the Neo-Nazis had something in common.

    This post is simply Erick Erickson and the GOP seeing that John Monds stands a real chance at hitting that 20% mark and getting LP-Georgia full equal ballot access.

    What are you so afraid of, GAGOP, that you rig the game in your favor? It couldn’t be because you nominate corrupt racist birthers as your own Governor candidate, could it?

        • Doug Grammer says:

          Sen. Johnson is a credible, qualified candidate who could have been elected Gov. next year. Monds is a possible excuse for a run off. End of his story. The ONLY reason Monds got so many votes last time he ran was that the Dems did not field a PSC candidate and the Dems didn’t want to vote for a GOP candidate.

          Monds is not a “has been,” he is a “never will be.” Reminds me of the LP in Georgia.

            • Doug Grammer says:

              I say that because he took the time to serve in the legislature. That’s something your candidate hasn’t even bothered to try before he wants to run the state.

              Sen. Johnson made enough friends and allies to put forth a credible campaign for the GOP nomination, via fundraising and vote getting. Other than run for office, what has Monds ever done for Georgia?

          • jm says:

            I met Monds opponent, Doug Everett, in that PSC race, and I asked him why a Republican, who generally favor deregulation, would want to be on a commission that regulates utilities. His answer was pretty intelligent – he believes in a free market that regulates itself, but utilities were monopolies, not a free market, and thus needed regulation. He also, surprisingly, was not in favor of the deregulation of the gas utilities a few years back. Plus, he said, I don’t have a Democratic opponent, and you don’t want the other guy (Monds) – he just wants to deregulate everything.

    • macho says:

      I think the LP would have a better chance of growing their Party, if they found someone who was remotely qualified to be Governor. I get the picture with Monds, that at the last LP convention, he drew the short straw.

      • Jeff says:

        See my comment below. In the last decade, John Monds has recieved more votes than Sonny Perdue did in 2002, and was only less than 200K votes under Perdue’s 2006 numbers (and roughly 200K ABOVE Mark Taylor’s numbers that year).

        John Monds, even while NOT running for Governor, has managed to pull similar numbers as to what Governor candidates get on the General Election ballot. Clearly, the voters of Georgia think at least SOMETHING positive about the guy.

            • Doug Grammer says:

              I thought “vote for me, I’m better than the alternative,” couldn’t be preached by a member of the LP?

              • Jeff says:

                Particularly when it comes to our Governor candidate, so long as the GOP insists on being a tyrant with ballot access laws, I will take votes anyway I can ethically get them.

                Contrast that with the GOP’s “legal” standard and the Dems’ “any” standard… 😉

        • macho says:

          It’s disingenuous to mention Monds vote total in his PSC race without mentioning the fact that there was no Democratic opposition. It’s actually a really bad showing, when you take into account that Monds would have had the votes from two Parties – Democrat and Libertarian.

          I think when the LP points to Monds’ showing in the PSC race, without mentioning the main reason, it’s indicative of their lack of faith in his individual abilities.

    • Doug Grammer says:

      “the GOP trying to tie StormFront around Ron Paul’s neck, as evidenced on this very blog?”

      Dr. Jay, a candidate for Pooler city councilman (or even E. E.) = the Georgia GOP? Seriously?

  9. John Konop says:

    The problem is political parties use words as weapons to win elections rather than have a rational debate on how to solve problems.

    For example:

    Any expert well tell you for Medicare to survive we must have rationing yet this is called death panels by the GOP

    The Democrats we tell you the GOP wants to steal the benefit yet the average person pays in 1 dollar and gets 3 dollars of benefit ie Medicare

    I could go on and on from the major issues we face from jobs, immigration……..and the majority of the debate is irrational talking points on both sides used to motivate a base. And until the American people demand more from office holders and reject Fox news/MSNBC talk show ratting driven news shows we will keep kicking the can down the road putting the problems on our kids. And the road is getting to a point that many of you are starting to feel what your kids will deal with in the future.

  10. bowersville says:

    [The Libertarian Director of Operations] simply said Nathan Deal and the Neo-Nazis had something in common.

    Can’t you see the absurdity of that linkage?

    David Koresh and the Branch Davidians share something in common with Baptist, Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc. The Holy Bible.

    With that Libertarian’s absurd way of thinking Christians share something in common with cults. Illogical method of linkage.

    According to the Libertarian Director of Operation’s reasoning ability Roy Barnes and Nathan Deal share something in common with Neo-Nazis. People with common sense will decide otherwise.

      • bowersville says:

        Erick and Ron Paul are not running for Governor of Georgia. Deflection tactics are what they are…..deflection tactics and I’m not taking the bait.

          • bowersville says:

            I think Roy Barnes is in a better position to take Republicans to task on that issue. The voters will decide if the terms corrupt and racist are accurate, a shade of gray or not.

            The only way out of this for Libertarians is to throw this cat under the bus and quickly to maintain any hope of credibility and objectivity on any subject.

            • Jeff says:

              The “Party of Tolerance” that once again nominated a white male is in a better position to take the GOP to task for its racism than the Party that was the first one to ever put an African American on the General Election ballot for Governor?

              • macho says:

                You guys would be a lot more credible if your African American candidate brought some credibility from a political, business, legal or academic perspective.

                Since your now claiming the “first ever black dude” award, I gather it’s something that was strategically discussed at LP meetings. Just putting a guy on the ballot because he’s black doesn’t help your cause.

                • Jeff says:

                  I had only been a member of the Party for a couple of months when John announced his candidacy, and didn’t actually meet the guy until a month after he announced. So I wasn’t one who anyone consulted about running for the LP-Ga Governor nod. But I can tell you that getting more votes than any member of the Libertarian Party ever has, anywhere in the Country, sends a pretty strong message – and John did that less than 6 months before announcing his Governor campaign. More than 1 million people have voted for John Monds already – which was less than 200K votes less than Perdue got in his re-election bid in 2006, and MORE votes than Perdue got in his initial Governor bid in in 2002.

                  But no, that couldn’t have anything to do with why LP-Georgia would choose to nominate him for Governor in 2010, could it? It HAD to be because the LP wanted to go in the history books as the first Party to put an African American on the General Election ballot for Governor, right? (note heavy sarcasm on this paragraph)

                  • Doug Grammer says:

                    Your points are even weaker than your candidate. You motto should be, “Vote Monds, he needs a job.” You into some mind alerting substances if you think Monds will see North of 1,000,000 votes in 2010.

                  • macho says:

                    You do realize that there was no Democrat candidate in the race he received all his PSC votes. It was during Obama’s election. So what do you think all those Obama supporters were going to do – vote Republican or Libertarian. I hope you haven’t sold the national Libertarian party this bill of goods.

              • bowersville says:

                “The ‘Party of Tolerance’ that once again nominated a white male” and voters are supposed to use that as an analogy for what?

            • macho says:

              The problem for the LP of GA, is this is the first time their Party has even received a blip of publicity and they have no idea what to do.

    • Rick Day says:

      Bowersville, do you not realize how much truth is in the very words you purport to mock?

      I’ll add that Koresh and Christians in political power have even more in common than the Book of Myths: they want to control us all with their interpretation of the Book of Myths.

      Christianity is a cult.

      Your post is so Strawman it sings for a Brain.

  11. Steve says:

    I haven’t been active in the Georgia LP since mid-2008, and I don’t think I’ve ever met Brett Bittner. With that grain of salt, a few thoughts pop into mind:

    (1) This is calculated “fake outrage”. The guy posts a link in his Facebook status, pointing out that Deal shares a common political position with some bad people. From there it’s been spun up into being that all Republicans on this blog are Nazis, and Jason Shepherd is campaigning on it as a personal attack directed at his great-grandparents or something. Come ON. I don’t see Monds getting anywhere near 20%… but given how tight the Deal-vs-Barnes numbers were in the most recent poll, methinks the spin doctors are concerned about losing an extra 2 or 3 percent that might make the difference. Otherwise, why would we even be talking about this? Consider the source of this post and his own Facebook/Twitter habits, Captain Goat-****ing Child Molester.

    (2) Sorry Danny, but the response thus far has been really lame. I actually agree with Doug Grammer, which is never a good sign! I don’t shy away from the race card entirely, as racial profiling certainly is at the center of the Arizona law. But as soon as you throw around the word “Nazi” in an argument, you’ve already lost that argument. Again, I don’t know this Brett guy… but if you’re going to be a public face for a party, you have to remember what eyes are upon you and not shoot half-cocked.

    (3) I’m wondering why the Operations Director would even be a regular at the blog to which he linked. Two or three years ago, one of the leading Libertarian-oriented blogs was Third Party Watch… which was owned and operated by southern Libertarians. After the Bob Barr nomination, that other blog was launched specifically as a protest against Third Party Watch… by bloggers who believed that the party was being taken over by southern Libertarians, who are really Republicans in disguise. Heh, no matter who you are, the LP always seems to be “[The Other Major Party] in disguise”…

    • I think my response was adequate for some of the same reasons you just stated:

      1. One of our directors made a tongue in cheek comment on his PERSONAL Face Book page Don’t worry, GA GOP… @VoteDeal is in good company. http://bit.ly/dqNI4v and that’s all it took to generate this over the top “fake outrage”. Which, by my statement above, is most likely the tip of the iceberg of “over the top outrages” to come as the Libertarian Party candidates continue to cut into the GA Dems and GA GOP self perceived “entitlement” of support.

      2. I find it funny that it is Erick E, and not our operations director, that refers to Nathan as a racist Nazi… all our guy said was that his position was the same as one of the groups in the article… so again, pretty funny that the assumption was automatic for the gop sycophants, that it wasn’t the opposition group (correctly assumed, I’m sure, but just saying… exposing another possible chink in the crooked Deal’s armor).

      3. Last thing… I’m not going waste more of my time fighting/arguing/justifying with the R for R and D for D supporters every time they can come up with some over the top “outrage” to try to hold on to their power. Most likely, I’ll let them and their self gratifying, ego-inflating comments go on without my input… you know, like over at redstate.com and dailykos.com. Here, at PP, I’ll chime in when there’s a more substantial issue being discussed.

      “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. –Mohandas Gandhi”

    • Beanie says:

      Wow. That’s a pretty damning quote, in the context of what Erick is saying in his post here. Good catch.

  12. AubieTurtle says:

    Libertarians by nature aren’t all that great at getting along with each other so it’s amusing to see them circle the wagons and act just as blindly partisan as the Democrats and Republicans when one of their own says something exceedingly stupid (that doesn’t involve typical libertarian ideology). But at least it was just words and not bricks of bribe money in the freezer or sleeping with lobbyists in exchange for votes.

    If I were in the Deal camp though, I’d just let this one go. Libertarians are like RC Cola… Coke or Pepsi even acknowledging their existence legitimizes it to the public. Monds didn’t say anything and he’s the one running for office. The more the incident is talked about, the more people are given something to be curious about and end up reading up on Monds and the Libertarians. Even if only a small percentage of them like what they see, it could make the difference come election day.

      • Beanie says:

        Having no job is quickly becoming the way to related to more and more Georgians, so you might want to reconsider that disqualification.

      • Chris says:

        Last I checked, Nathan Deal is unemployed too. Had to flee congress before the Committee on Standards and Ethics took a look into his side businesses.

        • Doug Grammer says:

          Congressman Deal at least had a job. He was in Congress 17 years. He had the side business a tad longer than that. How many years is he supposed to stay still while they look at him? He has more important things to do, like becoming our next Governor.

          • Jeff says:

            Doug:

            So you (and via you, as 9th District Chair, the GOP) don’t consider home school teacher a ‘job’?

            Good to know that you think you know best when it comes to education. I tend to think the parent and teacher knows best. In John’s case, he is BOTH.

            • Doug Grammer says:

              Who signs his paychecks?

              Seriously, I have friends that were home schooled, so I don’t have a big problem with that aspect, but I think the voters should know his employment status, don’t you?

              BTW, all of my comments are my own and not the Ninth’s unless otherwise noted. I don’t post on here in official capacity very often. Maybe once every six months. When I do, I’ll use my title.

    • KingWulfgar says:

      I really don’t know what “circling the wagons” you’re talking about. There are only two places I’ve even seen this mentioned: here and the circle of GOPers that surround the OP.

      It’s a non-issue. Also, if you want to manufacture outrage, what Erickson said in the interview linked above is worse than this. Brett Bittner didn’t even use the term Nazi–Paulding County blogger Tom Milanese did.

      • Wulfgar,

        You are correct. Bittner didn’t use the term NAZI. The term he used was “http://bit.ly/dqNI4v”. Oh by the way, if you click on Bittner’s “term”, you get the following headline – “Nazis Hold Rally Against Illegal Immigration in Los Angeles”.

        Poor libertarians. They never envisioned the day when someone would actually throw rocks back at them.

        • KingWulfgar says:

          Tom, I’ll just give you a few highlights from my comments on facebook to another “interested party.”

          There’s nothing to talk about other than to blow it out of proportion. Brett didn’t call Nathan Deal or the GA GOP Nazis–he just pointed out that a white supremacist group agrees with them on border policy. It’s a non-issue.

          But, by all means, let’s keep talking about something that doesn’t matter instead of, you know, the economy, job loss, high taxes, lack of a water plan, that sort of thing. You must be really worried about that 3% Libertarian vote this election, buddy.

    • Hank Reardan says:

      Just keep spelling our name right :).
      And you have to love the headline If I was a democrat I would love seeing this headline. If I was Deals campaign manager I would not want my candidates name that close to the word NAZI because of people that are here for a few seconds my not read the content

  13. Red Phillips says:

    Paulding Pundit, I am a conservative, and I intend to vote straight ticket Libertarian in the general. I would vote straight ticket Constitution Party if I could, but unfortunately the CP isn’t on the ballot. Voting is not always about agreeing with everything a candidate or party stands for. There is such a thing as strategic voting. A vote for the GOP nominee is an endorsement of what they are doing. The person receiving your vote doesn’t know whether or not you were holding your nose when you cast it. Your vote counts the same whether you cast it reluctantly or enthusiastically. A vote for a third party is an unambiguous repudiation of the major parties. I wouldn’t vote for a Green Party candidate because that would be a repudiation from the left, which is not the directional signal I want to send. But a vote for the LP candidate is essentially a vote to repudiate the GOP from the right. (We could have a long philosophical discussion about where libertarianism actually falls on a left/right political spectrum, but a vote for the LP is generally perceived as from the right whether that is philosophically accurate or not.)

    I think the idea of open borders is insane, but I could vote for an open borders LP candidate precisely because I know he isn’t going to win. I would have a much harder time voting for an open borders LP candidate if I thought he could win. But the run-off system in Georgia gives us even more reason to cast a strategic protest vote. If the third party candidate forces a run-off, you can always vote for the GOP nominee then.

    (For the record, while I think open borders are crazy, I very much agree with my libertarian friends on foreign policy, and maintain that non-interventionism is the authentic conservative position. That internationalist militaristic interventionism came to be associated with conservatism is a historical anomaly. A humble, non-meddlesome foreign policy that puts our own interests first is what arises from an authentic conservative mindset, not Jacobin global crusading.)

    • Note that not all libertarians are pro-open borders. I’m one that falls into that category. I believe that borders serve a purpose and that there should be certain paths to immigration / citizenship within a country. I think you’ll find that the LP is somewhat split on that issue. I don’t know what Monds’ stance is on it, but as someone else said… we don’t border Mexico.

      • griftdrift says:

        Yes. Modern libertarians are known to get quite squishy on what used to be core libertarian issues. But lord knows, don’t let a public school buy a poor kid a free lunch. Lord no!

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