I have a question

For me ethics is one of my top issues. I believe Nathan Deal is ethically challenged. You will not change my opinion on that fact. Deal’s ethical issues trump the issues of taxes, ZBB, and educational choice.

So my question is: how is Roy Barnes that bad? I don’t recall Georgia being that horrible a place in 1998-2003. Yes, the 2000 redistricting was a clusterf—. But how much of that was Roy Barnes, and how much was the Democrat controlled General Assembly?

So here is your chance. Tell me why I need to support Deal.

(off topic comments will be deleted)

70 comments

  1. GabrielSterling says:

    On redistricting that was 100% Roy and his guy Bobby Kahn. Also, they managed to drain the rainy day fund down to only $20 million when Sonny came in. Those are two off the top of my head. Redistricting alone is a reason enough to stop Roy.

      • LoyaltyIsMyHonor says:

        zero, zilch, zippo, nada….

        The truth is that the national economy began to tank midway through his term. All the Grover Nordquist wanna-be’s in the world weren’t going to isolate GA from that.

  2. Blog Goliard says:

    Thank you for asking this question, Chris.

    I would also welcome responses that specify exactly what Nathan Deal promises to do that would be better, and why we should trust him to be willing and able to follow through on the promise to do it.

    This is an honest question. I truly want to know what you see in the guy–apart from the “R” after his name, and the endorsements he’s collected from fellow politicians–and what you’re looking forward to him doing.

    • I see jobs. Mr. Deal would create a more favorable business climate (by reducing corporate income taxes and exempting new business startups from corporate taxes) which would help with job growth statewide.

  3. Provocateur says:

    Well…one thing is that since Perdue has been in, there have been a LOT of good Republicans appointed to a lot of this state’s boards and commissions.

    So, if Roy gets in, all appointments will get back to being FOR (Friends of Roy), and the various honorable Republican-types will not be replaced by similar-minded political minds.

  4. LoyaltyIsMyHonor says:

    I would have answered sooner, but the site is soooooo sloooooow 😉

    You should really be posing this question to legislators who served during Barnes’s term. He and his staff were well-known for heavy-handedness, arrogance, and “my way or the highway.” Essentially, if you were a Democratic legislator, who didn’t support one of Barnes’s policies, then he, Booby Khan, or one of their lackeys would let you know that they would be recruiting someone to challenge you in the next primary.

    A good person to ask might be Tim Golden, although I have no knowledge that he was ever directly threatened, just that he’d give you an honest assessment.

    That all said, I really didn’t have any issues with Barnes’s initiatives except that some of them were handled very poorly. God knows we need the Northern Arc, but all the NIMBYs, and Perdue’s pandering, killed that idea.

    As for redistricting? Give me a break, if the tables were turned, the R’s would have done the exact same thing. One only needs to look at the quick redrawing of Brian Kemp’s brother-in-laws district a few years back for clear proof.

    • ACCmoderate says:

      LIMH,

      Is Roy’s heavy handedness any different from the heavy-handedness we saw from Glenn Richardson and Casey Cagle? While Sonny may have been more abivalent, Republican leadership in the statehouse certainly was not. I’m sure Preston Smith would have a lot to say about the “my way or the highway” attitude of Georgia GOP leadership.

      • DoubleDawg3 says:

        I’m sure Preston Smith made his little speech to use as his campaign platform – too bad he slept with two 20 year olds a few years earlier which kind of ended that.

        Honestly, you want to know what it was about Barnes – it was that his “heavy-handedness” wasn’t just at the expense of other legislators, it was at the expense of the citizens of the State of Georgia. He basically looked the citizens and educators of this state in the face and said, “Yeah, I’m going to change this…like it or not” on any number of matters. It was hubris then and it’ll be the same in 2011 if he wins.

        Chris, as for Deal – why is his ONE issue that important? Literally, he has ONE major negative – and that one wouldn’t have been nearly as big as it is now if he’d just sent his business partner to meet with Cagle & Graham instead of him or his COS the same thing would have been achieved. Do any of you really think he HAD to have that $100K in income to live off of each year? NO – I’m sure if it had become an issue in his duties as a Congressman he would have ended it then – but it wasn’t. If I’ve got a business, which I’ve never had any issues with or questions over, why wouldn’t I continue doing the same thing year after year?

        • DoubleDawg3 says:

          What Barnes did was basically the same thing as what Pelosi, Reid and Obama have done thus far – shoved things that the majority of the American public doesn’t want down their throat, b/c “they” think it’s best for them in the long run. Exact same thing.

      • LoyaltyIsMyHonor says:

        I certainly agree with you, and my response wasn’t meant to give the Republican’s a free a pass; I was simply trying to stay on topic.

        Although Ralston seems to be much more amenable. And Cagle is too much of an empty suit to ever be considered arrogant.

  5. drjay says:

    hello chris, the flag!!! do you not remember the flag, economy, taxes, jobs, whatever, do you really want to risk our flag being changed again by some scalawagging sympathizer!!!

  6. GabrielSterling says:

    On redistricting the GOP has a much better record than the Dems under Barnes. I mean Barnes and his allies were found to have violated the Constitution by the Courts with their bid for increasing power. They used the +/-5% guideline, which is there to help communities interest together, to systematically pack GOP districts and minimize population in Dem Districts. They tore communities apart.

    Fortunately their overreach backfired. The current legislative map tries to keep counties whole and the biggest deviation I believe is only 1% or so. Also, we got rid of those bizarre multi-member districts. How is it fair to have one community having two (or even 3) members looking out for them and others only one?

    • On redistricting the GOP has a much better record than the Dems under Barnes.

      What are you basing that on? Unless I’m missing something, the GOP has no record at all. The Dems controlled the Gold Dome the last time we redrew Congressional districts… the 8 years of GOP control has thus far fallen in between census periods.

      • ACCmoderate says:

        The GOP was in power when the DoJ made Georgia re-draw its Congressional districts. That’s how John Barrow found himself living in Savannah instead of Athens.

  7. So here is your chance. Tell me why I need to support Deal?

    You Don’t have to!

    Seriously, this concept of Party over principles and/or Party over the individual is why I left the GOP.

    I fully support those in both the GOP and DNC that attempt to change their party from within to advance civil liberty and fiscal liberty… but uniting behind hot air or bad individual candidates for the “sake of the party” is where I drew the line…. The ballot in November will not just have three boxes with R, D and L… it will have lists of individuals. And just like I said before the primary, please vote for the candidate that most closely matches you and don’t just go on their rhetoric if they have a record opposite of it. And as far as ethics… well, that’s a deal killer… (ha, really, pun wasn’t intended)

    I’m sure I’ll have more to say on the subject in the future, but I’ll leave it here for now.

    • NoTeabagging says:

      Daniel, I second the motion of not
      uniting behind hot air or bad individual candidates for the “sake of the party” (R,D,L,G whatever)

  8. concernedvoter says:

    If you are a Liberal or Progressive I can not give you a reason, however if you are a conservative or moderate – How about Georgia stands to gain 2 more U.S. House seats, if Barnes is elected he will fight for districts that will more likely elect those who will vote with B.O. for socialism and Deal will fight for districts that will more likely elect individuals who will vote for FREEDOM. I wouldn’t mind a person with a D beside their name if they would vote for what is good for our Constitutional Republic.

    • ACCmoderate says:

      Yeah and that socialist Obamer won’t even show us his birth certificate.

      Seriously dude, come up with a response less laden with catchphrases and more focused on ideas.

  9. eschristian says:

    I am looking at 3rd parties to vote for in this race.

    So my choices are: dem and an ex-dem OR a 3rd party

    Being the ex-dem with all his ethical problems & possibly could get indicted between now the election will most likely not win why would I go against my principles and vote for him? Why because he has an (R) behind his name? Sorry GOP – you always have a tendency to screw things up & yet again it’s screwed up!!!

  10. Erick's Mortal Enemy says:

    I was never a big Roy fan, but let’s be honest here….Governor Deal? I mean the man has more ethics violations than . Is that really who we need to be leading the state. A certifiably corrupt politician?

    • Provocateur says:

      Allegations of ethical violations. Nothing proven yet. Nothing reviewed by an official law interpretation body.

      Ever heard of due process? Look it up sometime. It’s what separates this country from the old USSR.

  11. ZazaPachulia says:

    redistricting alone is not a good reason to choose a corrupt former congressman with ethical issues to lead the state.

    As has been pointed out in other threads, very little separates Deal and Barnes other than geography. When much of Georgia started voting Republican, one of these two good-old-boy lawyers happened to live in a district where demographic shifts kept the Dems in control. The other did not — and he switched parties to keep his political career alive.

    It’s going to take a lot more than the redistricting argument to make me vote for Deal.

    • bowersville says:

      “the redistricting argument” is an argument that will bear no fruit in the general election. It’s inside baseball and I don’t see how the so-called squishy middle will understand it or care. The King Roy label won’t stick either. That label was earned by Barnes and Kahn inside the Gold Dome playing inside baseball with legislators.

      If anything the King Roy label will be seen as not so bad of a thing compared to the last 3-4 years.

      IMHO, the public is looking for a different direction out of the doldrums.

      Perdue ran against the incumbent Barnes 8 years ago. Deal is not. Deal needs to focus on why voters need Deal to become Governor.

  12. ZazaPachulia says:

    Plus, I think it would be nice to see how Georgia functions when the Governor’s mansion and the General Assmebly aren’t controlled by the same party (for once)

    • Chris says:

      I will admit, that was a good ad. For 8 years ago. Sadly, all the problems under Roy are still with us. Lousy schools, bad traffic, loss of jobs.

      • racinwithrex says:

        I had to laugh when I seen this ad. Kinda like always blaming Bush for all the problems nationwide and talking about change… HHHMMM wonder where all this comes from? The score is 30-Love… Your serve!

      • ACCmoderate says:

        So Obama can’t blame Bush for his problems. But Sonny can blame Barnes for all of his?

        Something don’t smell right.

  13. Joshua Morris says:

    I’m certainly no close friend of the former congressman, but I’ve been around him, watched him, listened to him, and learned from him. I’m not convinced by any of the ‘may have’ ethics allegations against him.

    I personally have been most impressed by the speeches I have heard him deliver. One sticks out most in my mind from a district convention in April 2008, in which he clearly delineated the issue of Rights as outlined in the Constitution and the limitations on the power of government detailed in the Bill of Rights. He clearly defined the presidential politics of that year as just another version of ‘American Idol’, and his lip quivered as he read accounts of POW torture and raw American courage from McCain’s autobiography.

    Deal is a principled, thinking conservative. Barnes is a ‘government-can-solve-all-your-problems’ progressive liberal. I choose to support the conservative, Nathan Deal–no question.

    • Harry says:

      I appreciate your comment. I believe you are a principled person although I don’t always agree with you. I may end up voting for Deal; but to me honesty is criterion number one even though I’m no angel myself…on the other hand, I’m not taking a politician’s salary while using influence to get a super-lucrative no-bid state contract, which as I understand is still in effect (correct me if I’m wrong).

      Right now I’m thinking I’d rather let the other side’s corrupt politician a win and hope that the GAGOP over the next 4 years works to reform internally, and in the meantime maybe elect some more independent-minded state representatives and senators. Keep in mind that with a GOP-controlled legislature King Roy will not have a free hand, and in fact the inter-party conflict may yield some positive results.

      • John Konop says:

        Haryy,

        Very good point!

        ….Keep in mind that with a GOP-controlled legislature King Roy will not have a free hand, and in fact the inter-party conflict may yield some positive results…..

      • Doug Grammer says:

        Harry,

        You asked to be corrected if you were wrong. Congressman Deal has not engaged in that type of business since August 2009 after the Georgia Revenue Service wanted to take focus off the rebuilt cars being safe and not just ran through a chop shop and checking the VIN numbers. The vehicle inspection program goes back 20 years in Georgia. The companies that started out at test or pilot stations began with no contract.

    • NoTeabagging says:

      I think Deal is a “What’s in it for me while I’m in office” politician and Roy is a “What’s in it for me when I’m out of office” politician.

  14. TPNoGa says:

    This may be a stupid question, but…..does the 50%+1 rule apply to the November election? If King Roy doesn’t meet the 50%+1 due to Libertarian votes, would there be a runoff? I would think so, but want to make sure.

    If so, I very well may vote Libertarian in the general.

  15. Doug Grammer says:

    The November election won’t be decided today. Therefore, we don’t have to announce all the reasons to vote one way or another in one day. Congressman Deal’s jobs plan “Real Prosperity” would boost Georgia’s tax competitiveness with other states from 29th in the nation to 16th Deal’s job’s plan can be found here:

    http://www.nathandeal.org/images/RealProsperity.pdf

    • ACCmoderate says:

      “Fuel growth in biotech and medical device industry”

      I agree with this point, especially with the new health sciences program coming the the University of Georgia alongside the new MCG campus in Athens. With the growth of those programs and the presence of the CDC in Atlanta, Georgia has a real chance to be THE leader in biotech and medical engineering. Lets hope that his opposition to stem-cell research doesn’t scare off the biotech companies that would otherwise look to Georgia as a destination to set up shop.

      I agree with a lot of what Deal is saying throughout the document. But I have serious doubts about the viability of increased tax cuts when we’re already having serious trouble with the budget as is. Next session, we’re going to be met with declining revenues and the need to cut even more spending than we already have.

      While tax cuts MAY entice businesses to relocate to Georgia, they won’t stay long when we’ve cut services so drastically in an attempt to make up for those tax cuts that the state of Georgia unable to help businesses succeed.

    • racinwithrex says:

      Georgia is currently the only state among our immediate neighbors in the southeast which tax the
      inventory of a business. This tax hits retailers particularly hard and also encourages businesses
      to house their retail inventory outside of the state. As the next governor, Nathan Deal will work to
      eliminate this regressive tax to allow businesses to grow absent this additional burden and layer of
      taxation by allowing local governments to elect to extend current Freeport exemptions to more goods,
      regardless of who holds the inventory or the destination to which it is shipped. Lost revenue would
      quickly be offset through additional revenue from the sale of goods and would help to pave the way for
      new jobs in Georgia.
      dealforgovernor.

      This one I gotta see for myself…… One thing to say it… Another to do it….

      • racinwithrex says:

        Oh and I did notice the “WE” in your post…. lol…lol..lol…

        The November election won’t be decided today. Therefore, we don’t have to announce all the reasons to vote one way or another in one day.

        I’m sure glad that Deal has you on his side…..

        • Doug Grammer says:

          I will use “we” from now on. You are the only one laughing, so I guess it’s funny for you. Congressman Deal is the nominee of my party. Between the two of us, you supported an candidate on July 20 that got 15%. I didn’t openly endorse anyone, but I accurately predicted that Sen. Mullis would win without a run off. He got about 70% of the vote. I think Congressman Deal will be happy with my support and efforts.

  16. ACCmoderate says:

    Chris, it’s quite simple:

    Roy Barnes hates the Constitution. We all know that our Constitution was cooed into the ear of George Washington by our Sweet Lord Baby Jesus. So, by extention, he hates our Sweet Lord Baby Jesus.

    Roy Barnes took away our right to look like ignorant and racist pricks when he changed the flag.

    Roy Barnes dared to challenge teachers to actually do their jobs. If’n our teachers don’t want to educate our kids, they shouldn’t have to.

    Then, as if he hadn’t spit on America enough, he decided to drop kick our Sweet Lord Baby Jesus by supporting an outer perimeter that would’ve alleviated traffic on I-285 (a road that was never intended to be used as a heavilly trafficked bypass) by allowing more trucks to get where they needed to go without having to pass through Atlanta.

    I don’t care about solving transportation issues. Its my God-given right to sit in traffic for 2 hours each morning and 2 hours each night. If Sweet Lord Baby Jesus and his band of angels wanted us to use trains, they would’ve built more of ’em when the built the pyramids.

    I don’t care about the enviroment. God made the environment before he made oil, smoke, smog, and my sweet new Ford F-650. He obviously must care about those things more than the enviroment.

    The Sweet Lord Baby Jesus and his sidekick George Washington appeared to me in a dream and told me that Nathan Deal was the right choice to protect us from all the gay abortion doctors that want to sneak over the border and rip up the Constitution.

    I love the Constitution. I love it so much that I haven’t read it beyond the preamble. I feel its best to maintain a grade school knowledge of a document I believe in so steadfastly.

    • Blog Goliard says:

      But if it’s all you’ve got, it’s far better than nothing.

      Which is why it’s so hard to get legislative support, on either side of the aisle, for redistricting reform along the lines of the Iowa model.

      • griftdrift says:

        Pretty maps.

        Georgia Congressional Delegation in 2003 under Roy Barnes

        R – 8, D – 5

        Georgia Congressional Delegation in 2007 after Republicans took control and re-apportioned again

        R – 7, D – 6

        Dang that Roy Barnes! How could anyone tolerate that meglomaniac and his relentless march to put Democrats back in power through re-apportionment! Will the Republicans ever not be unfairly persecuted?>

        • Doug Grammer says:

          Grift,

          You’ve made my point. The lines were last changed in 2005. The fact is that they were drawn dividing communities of interest apart in a hope to keep control. The fact the GOP lost a seat when they were drawn fairly should be a testament that the GOP legislature was putting the interests ahead of the people ahead of the interest of the party.

          • griftdrift says:

            I’m sure that was the only reason. Just like I’m sure the GOP will do it’s best to make sure its a 1-1 split when we add two more in 2012.

            • Doug Grammer says:

              I think they will draw maps that don’t split cities, counties or precincts, and will try to keep communities of interests to together. (all of the coast in 1 district & try to keep the mountain areas together, but population may force some splits.) I don’t know if we will get 1 or 2 new congressional districts, but other than the voting rights act, I think they will let chips fall where they may.

      • Blog Goliard says:

        I happen to have been reading some journal articles on redistricting lately, and there seem to be a number of scholars who find the effect of partisan gerrymanders to be greatly overstated.

        I’m sure that ‘Goldwater Conservative’ would be quick to point out that this isn’t a very good journal; and that even if it were, neither you nor I have the credentials that would allow us to make any more sense out of the articles than your average monkey. But take a gander here anyway:

        The Forum
        Volume 8 / Issue 2 (July 2010)
        http://www.bepress.com/forum/vol8/iss2/

        Theodore Arrington reviews the literature on reapportionment, to underline research needs for an intelligent next round (http://www.bepress.com/forum/vol8/iss2/art7/), while Nicholas Seabrook suggests that the momentousness of this particular outcome may be overstated (http://www.bepress.com/forum/vol8/iss2/art8/).

        (Also, more seriously, I’m not sure if it lets you through to the full articles for free if you’re not coming to it from a University network as I am. If that’s a problem for you, and you’re interested in these articles, just give me a shout.)

    • Chris says:

      Me neither. Doug’s link up there was interesting, but Deal accomplished nothing as a legislator. I find it hard to believe that he’ll have the where-with-all to steer that plan through the Ga General Assembly to get it passed.

      That said, I can find no reason to support Barnes either. And the voting libertarian just encourages the short-bus kids to keep nominating people who aren’t even remotely qualified.

      • Doug Grammer says:

        Chris

        If you take into account the number of legislators that endorsed Congressman Deal, I think you’ll find he will have the numbers to pass most things he supports.

  17. Mama_grizzly says:

    What are you Deal puppets g oing to do if he is indicted? Deal is corrupt. He may or may not have broken the law but he sure was unethical. If we keep voting for the lesser of the evils, nothing will change. The good ole boys will keep winning because they spoon feed us the li ne that you must vote for our candidate because the alternative is worse. They will throw the Barnes Boogie Man in this election to keep us from straying. As long as we keep voting the way they want, nothing will change..

    Not me. I relish the thought of Gov. Barnes..

    • B Balz says:

      WE have a bit of time before things get hot in this race, prolly until late September. Some are calling it an “October surprise” and I will guess that is when the so-called other shoe is going to drop.

      Rumoring and veiled references to all sorts of things unsavory float about. If these allegations are let out in October, and the cities all turn out their votes, we may get a Roy Deux.

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