Handel Calls For Dan Becker and Melanie Crozier’s Resignation From GRTL; Asks Deal To Join Her (UPDATED)

UPDATE: WSB TV interviews Handel, Deal, and Crozier here.

Crozier doesn’t seem to think that she properly articulated her point? That Sarah Palins’s baby, who was not created by rape, incest, threatened the life of the mother, nor was a part of invitro fertilization would be allowed to be aborted by Karen Handel, who is pro-life by National Right To Life standards?

She and Becker have lost all credibility on this issue. They’ve endorsed Deal who voted for abortion funding. They’ve endorsed McBerry who is a child predator. And they are making up false assertions about Karen Handel. They should resign.

From A Press Release:

Repulsive Attack Invoking Governor Palin’s Son “Last Straw” for Group’s “Attack Execs”

Karen Handel today called on opponent Nathan Deal to join her in demanding the resignation of two top Georgia Right to Life executives in the wake of a second incident of disgusting and hateful comments – this time using the son of former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin in their continued attacks against Governor Palin and her endorsement of Handel.

In a news story in Politico this week, GRTL PAC Executive Director Melanie Crozier attacked Palin’s endorsement of Handel and went so far as to say that “[Palin] has a son with Down’s Syndrome, and under Karen Handel’s laws, Handel would have felt like it was ok to go in and abort that child.”

“This is a cruel and revolting lie and shows just how low GRTL leaders are willing to go for a political attack,” Handel said. “I am deeply offended, and I can only imagine how offensive these callous remarks are to Governor Palin and her family – and to all Georgians.”

Handel, who is pro-life, does not and has never held any belief that could remotely be construed as supporting the act Crozier describes.
“My little sister was born with a rare, life-threatening medical condition – one that few, if any, babies at that time had ever survived. It took miraculous, experimental neonatal care to save her and years of surgeries to ensure her the best that life can offer,” Handel said. “My parents knew that she would likely be born with a health issue that she would likely not survive, but they chose life. In doing so, they gave me a sister whom I love more than I could ever express – a wonderful young woman who has enriched my life beyond measure. GRTL’s assertions that I would ever support what they claim are outrageous, untrue, and way, way over the line.”

This is the second time a GRTL leader has stepped over the line in personal attacks against Karen. In June, the group’s President, Dan Becker, called her “barren” and “infertile” because Karen and husband Steve were unsuccessful in their decade-long attempt to have children.
“What this group’s leaders are doing is morally wrong. Their comments and their attacks are offensive and cruel. More importantly, these two individuals are setting back the pro-life cause that I so firmly support,” Handel said today. “I ask Nathan Deal to join me in calling for Becker and Crozier to resign or be removed from the board of GRTL, so that this organization can be honorable once again.”

209 comments

  1. ACCmoderate says:

    I don’t agree with GRTL or their latest attack, but I can’t help but get the feeling that Ms. Handel is only “outraged” because its politically expidient for her to be.

    • Icarus says:

      I’m pretty sure if you’re lectured for almost an hour by someone for “not accepting God’s will” for being “barren and infertile”, then publicly taken to task in the press for the same; then the outrage doesn’t have to be manufactured.

      • polisavvy says:

        Could GRTL have been more low rent than that? Hideous thing to say about Sarah’s child and Karen’s infertility issues. Low rent, indeed.

        • In The Arena says:

          Note to Karen Handel:

          You are running against Nathan Deal. Not Dan Becker. Your petty feud with GRTL is taking away from the constructive debate that you and Nathan Deal need to be having. Is this your official strategy, a sideways plan to avoid exposing your lack of understanding of real issues?

          There is a 9th district debate saturday. Its in Dalton. Are you going to show up, or are you going to hide in Alpharetta and spin out irrelevent press releases? You need to say bring it on to a real debate. McBerry is gone now, and so is your excuse to avoid debates. See you there.

          • Lady Thinker says:

            As Icarus said, GRTL supports Deal, who voted for abortion funding, making Deal pro-choice, not pro-life AND they supported the child toucher McBerry, yet they don’t support Karen. Whatever is going on with GRTL, it is against Karen, it’s personal, and they will support anyone going against their beliefs in order to hurt Karen in any way possible.

      • Ambernappe says:

        Probably best to consider the source as not worthy of a response other than to correct his spelling and syntax.

    • Lawful Money says:

      My limited exposure to Mr. Becker and the GRTL suggests that they are ostentatious, disingenuous bores – clinging to slogans and attempting to claim ownership of a cause they have literally NO intention of winning….while the murder rages on.

      And, these quotes & behaviour attributed to them, if accurate, are far below the bar of civil discourse even in a rancid political campaign….

      However, ACCmoderate is right – and this is the M.O. of the Empty Podium, who now has only a few weeks to deflect, neutralize, evade, and flee any challenge to the only things about her that really may be barren and infertile: her platform, her record, her spine, her defense of liberty & the Constitution, her integrity, and her ability to inspire & lead a free, sovereign, and independent State in this Union.

      This Jerry Springer moment, mixed in with some windbag endorsements should effectively allow the Empty Podium to spread more circular claptrap for a few weeks playing victim at the expense of non-entities like Becker & Crozier – while she attempts to seduce poor Nathan into a de facto endorsement of his opponent by playing the part of Beavis to her Butthead…

      What diversionary ploy does she have planned for Roy, one wonders?

      Seems a lot like the 2008 Presidential election – when the absolute worst candidate in the history of the Republican Party…was somehow chosen to run against a Marxist at a time when America had just begun its Greatest Depression…and pathetic shills refused to challenge anything worthwhile and meaningful about either of them…

      In this replay, the very worst candidate will permit the Return of Roy. But don’t worry – those who stand behind the Empty Podium now will get everything they hoped for even if it’s not quite what they deserve: they will get their own platform in the person of Roy Barnes, every bit as much as they have gotten their own platform in Songbird McCain’s partner – Barry Soetoro.

      • Bugs Dooley says:

        You had me there until I realized you were merely trying to lubricate propaganda with a conciliatory ‘Well, obviously GRTL are idiots, but . . .’
        Yes, we’ve all read Rules for Radicals, moving on . . .

      • Ambernappe says:

        Lawful Money,
        Insidious – you lapsed (or segued, if you prefer) into a rant, however, what are you for ? Not the Marxist, who? And that would require more specific comments regarding why Mrs. Handel does not represent the ideas and aspirations of voting Georgians.

        You may have noticed my reference to “voting” Georgians.

        One news service today reported that “social service” (welfare) agencies are serving more citizens, which probably means more votes for the Democrat party. Why would that be?

    • Ambernappe says:

      ACCModerate,
      This is not the only thread on which you have expressed the term “politically expEdient” re: the outrage of Karen Handel concerning GRTL. Try to find some new information. Or try to explain why Karen Handel should NOT feel outrage.

  2. wmo says:

    I’m just glad Georgia’s gonna get some positive attention from the national press now… [snark]

  3. macho says:

    I think this group lost credibility on the pro-life issue a long time ago. It’s nothing more than a political group, forming alliances with politicians (no matter how corrupt or perverted they are) and trying to stir up controversy for fundraising.

    It’s no longer about pro-life versus pro-abortion, it’s about political relevance and the need for Dan Becker to start looking for a real job if he doesn’t generate some money.

      • CobbGOPer says:

        My friend used to work for National Right to Life in DC (which classifies Karen Handel as “Pro Life” by the way), and she even said that they think the Georgia chapter is a little “whacko” (her word) at NRTL. It seems to me Karen should be emphasizing that she’s pro-life according to NRTL.

        But yes, even the national pro-lifers think that GRTL is fringe.

  4. “[Palin] has a son with Down’s Syndrome, and under Karen Handel’s laws, Handel would have felt like it was ok to go in and abort that child.”

    My personal belief is that this should be a decision for the parents and a case where abortion should be legal. Sure, they can put the child up for adoption, but how much demand is there to adopt a child with down’s syndrome? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I doubt most prospective parents want to get into that sort of a situation.

    Now, to the issue at hand… this becomes a strike against Handel for me. She could have simply called out GRTL for being mean spirited and rude. Instead she also chose to call it a lie and that she disagrees with the assertion that abortion should be illegal even in these cases. She just keeps making it harder and harder for me to vote for her…

    • errm.. make that “and that she disagrees with the assertion that abortion should be legal for these types of cases.” …or something like that. I think my brain is fried for the day…

      • ACCmoderate says:

        Handels message is basically: “Ignore everything I’ve said before this campaign for govenrnor. I was just trying to pander for votes back then.”

        If she was willing to pander for votes a few years ago, whats to say that she isn’t just saying things to get elected this time around?

        • Rick Day says:

          How is that different from any other career politician? Why don’t you just complain she does not take in as much oxygen as Deal, because her lungs are smaller?

          Do better.

  5. zigmaster says:

    Karen’s an idiot for bringing the pro-life issue into the run-off. It worked when she needed 30% in the general but will back-fire now.

    • CobbGOPer says:

      She didn’t bring the issue to the runoff, Nathan Deal and GRTL did. You can’t expect her not to defend herself.

      • Lady Thinker says:

        Exactly and it is hard to shake off very painful and hurtful things said in a public forum about private issues. Deal mailed out one of his mailers in which he bashed Karen on abortion issues while funding abortions.

  6. Vote Nathan Deal says:

    Karen is grasping at straws on this one. She is spinning the statement and making it an attack from GRTL on Palin. Karen if you want to make these statements do it in a debate moderated by Sarah Palin.

    • I have a feeling that some time before August 10th, Sarah Palin is going to get tired of reading about this runoff and have a serious talk with the staffer that ill-advisedly talked her into endorsing “Sonny-In-A-Skirt”.

      • Ambernappe says:

        Anyone here unfamiliar with the “bully” problem that many of our children and granchildren are facing? Wonder why the increase in reported incidents? Just read these remarkable rants from “socially acceptable adults”. They are not acceptable to me. Thus the lack of morals, discretion, and discernment not developed in children raised in day-care and suffering deficient nurturing have come to fruition before our eyes.
        Wonder why the increase in junior bullies.

    • Romegaguy says:

      I have a feeling that August 11 you will be talking about how stupid Georgia Republicans are for nominating Karen for Governor

  7. fishtail says:

    Meanwhile, Roy Barnes is out campaigning on the real issues of the economy, education, transportation, water, etc….

  8. John Konop says:

    I have never talked to Karen about this issue but as I said before the election I did talk to several woman and or husbands. I heard a very consistent theme that this line of attack helped Karen because of the very nasty personal nature of it. I will remind people before the election after my very non-scientific poll I thought Karen would get into the 30’s via the last attacks before this.

    On so many levels GRTL has crossed the line with many people in this election cycle. Insulting Karen and other people for using IVF for creating life is way over the line. On a personal level my wife and I struggled to have our second child even though we never used the procedure any person with even a limited heart should be sensitive to the very personal nature of having children.

    I am in shock that GRTL could sink to a even lower level with this attack. I supported many causes parental notification, better counseling, donated money to help pay for cost related to having the babies…. But this group has become a hate group bottom line! It is very sad because I do think they were a positive force at one time in helping with not using abortion as a birth control method.

    It is time for everyone to say enough is enough and demand the resignation of Dan Becker and Melanie Crozier . Show some class Nathan deal!

    • Vote Nathan Deal says:

      Konop, don’t be a puppet! You want to call some folks and raise a stink on this issue go ahead. Nathan Deal has class you on the other hand do not.

        • Vote Nathan Deal says:

          Puppets repeat the puppet master. Your quote, “It is time for everyone to say enough is enough and demand the resignation of Dan Becker and Melanie Crozier.” Where have I heard that before? The reason I said what I said is you usually are not a puppet. No reason to start now. Support who you want just don’t be a puppet. On the issue of class, grow up and have a little respect. Again I do not care who you support but Nathan Deal deserves more respect than you trying to tell him to have some class. Karen is spinning the statement and you know it. GRTL is not saying anything wrong toward Sarah Palin. They happen to disagree with Karen. They have a right to disagree it is called the first amendment. You also have the right to think and say what you want. I just assumed you were more adult than using the “class” argument.

      • Bugs Dooley says:

        I’m a woman, I was undecided going in to the final week (originally liked Scott), and yes, I was pushed to vote Handel by the ugliness of the Deal/Ox ads. Konop is absolutely right; women tend to empathize with female victims, so you turn off 50% of the population with a negative attack that may have been tolerated if leveled against a male opponent. Call it a double standard or whatever, it’s about time we had one go our way for a change

          • polisavvy says:

            You seem to know a lot about a lot. What is the story with the Susan B. Anthony group and Handel? Any idea? Thanks in advance.

              • B Balz says:

                [Read Comment] Bucky Plyler July 22, 2010 at 4:04 pm

                The Susan B. Anthony List & GRTL are very similar in life issues. Explore for yourself: sba-list.org

                • Ambernappe says:

                  You err in one important feature – Susan B Anthony and National Right to Life are closely attuned. National considers GeorgiaRTL on the fringe. There has been no policy statement regarding Karen Handel. I do support SBA financially and receive almost daily updates.

      • Progressive Dem says:

        “don’t be a puppet!”

        This is from someone who calls himself, “Vote Nathan Deal”. Now that’s funny.

        • Vote Nathan Deal says:

          I changed my name to “Vote Nathan Deal” so people will know where I stand. A puppet would tell everyone to vote for Nathan Deal no matter what. My priority is that you vote, I personally care more about the fact that you vote than who you vote for. But you probably can’t understand that.

          Konop, your statement, “I will pray you, GRTL and Nathan Deal will see that you are promoting hate.” Really shows your ability to converse with logic.

      • Holly says:

        Let’s call it like it is, shall we? Your screen name is Vote Nathan Deal, and I’ve never seen you comment before. Certainly, you don’t have the history with this site that John does. He’s voiced his opinion on countless issues on this site over several years. Further, his opinions do not adhere to one particular candidate or even one particular party.

        This is not merely a case of the pot calling the kettle black. It’s a case of the cast iron pot calling the porcelain kettle black. It doesn’t work, sorry.

      • Ambernappe says:

        I will not ask your definition of “class”, but more than one (me) conservative Republican in Georgia is able to compete with Representative Deal on ANY level. I would never put my grandchildren in the position of garnering votes for me – just another way to deprive them of their innocence.

  9. Bucky Plyler says:

    What Deal needs to do is sit down with GRTL & educate himself on all the issues of life since Ms. Handel wants to fight this fight. He may also want to find out why the Susan B. Anthony group would not endorse her as well. Then, Ms. Palin might want to give them a call & find out their position as well instead of having it filtered thru Handel.

    I think those meetings would be very enlightening. Bring It On would become a bipolar slogan !

  10. MSBassSinger says:

    I would have chosen a different approach than Becker and Crozier, certainly one less offensive, but even if GRTL is not your cup of tea, the Susan B. Anthony list will not endorse Handel, either.

    I oppose Handel for other reasons in addition to those. From what I can see, she is a big-spending, big-government Rockefeller Republican who has not been as forthcoming as she should have been on her education and her support of the gay agenda. My problem is more with the evasiveness than with the issues on which she was evasive.

    While Deal is not the perfect candidate, on the issues that matter to me, he is the better choice. From what I can see, Deal is more likely to cut spending and improve government overall than Handel. I am not impressed by a far left organization ranking Deal as #15 on their list of crooks.

    If you Handel supporters have reasoned arguments otherwise, I am open to them.

    • Jimbo says:

      CREW may be a “far left organization,” but as I keep telling people who mention that:
      1. The list that they published with Deal in it had 8 DEMOCRATS, compared to 7 Republicans.
      2. The fact that Deal made MOST CORRUPT, rather than simply corrupt, is significant.
      3. I am sure that if you looked extensively into the backgrounds of every Congressman, who would find some sort of illegal/unethical activity. The fact that Deal made MOST CORRUPT out of 435 Congressman and approximately 200 Republicans is also significant.

  11. John Konop says:

    MSBassSinger,

    In all due respect I am lost with your logic, Karen Handel cut expenses while running her agency, Nathan Deal on the other hand supported most of the pork that got us into this financial mess. Please help me understand you logic based on Deal voting record vs. Karen who cut cost?

    Do I really need to name all the bills from Medicare part D, No Child Left Behind……that Nathan Deal voted for that took us from a surplus to massive red ink?

  12. janna says:

    Isn’t GRTL a private organization? What business does a government official or wannabe official have inserting her opinion on membership?

    I have always thought Palin spent a lot of time being offended and outraged and it seems Handel is going to follow her lead on that. It makes them appeal shrill and out of touch with the real issues. As a woman, I find it embarrassing and off-putting. (it also reeks of sucking up to her endorser) She should have just left it alone.

    • “Isn’t GRTL a private organization? What business does a government official or wannabe official have inserting her opinion on membership?”

      I think she’s inserting her personal opinion here, in which case she has just as much right to criticize it as you or I do. If she were talking about mandating through law that they be fired or step down then it might be a different issue. She’s free to criticize them as much as she wants though.

    • Bugs Dooley says:

      The problem is that GRTL, while a private organization, is trying to hold themselves up as an authority on which candidates are really pro-life. If they are making desperate, distasteful, and above all, false, attacks, then Handel must call them out publicly so that they either change their ways (i.e. fire the leadership) or be thoroughly discredited

      • GRTL is pro-life and opposed to exceptions. Karen Handel is for exceptions. It’s as simple as that. GRTL is “holding themselves up,” they’re just stating who is pro-life and who is partial-life.

        • Bugs Dooley says:

          I think if you surveyed people who consider themselves ‘pro-life” they would not endorse the extremist view GRTL holds. Why else in a Republican primary could they only get 75% (dropping down to 60% in my county) to go along with a hardline definition of life starting at conception in the July 20 strawpoll? And that is just a cowardly, anonymous yes to a primary strawpoll question!

    • macho says:

      Seems they can dish it out, but can’t take it. If they are going to insert themselves into the race, which they have a 1st Amendment right to do so, they have to expect the criticism will go both ways.

      I’m not a huge Palin fan, but she was treated in a very degrading manner that was not bestowed upon the male candidates.

  13. ACCmoderate says:

    Note to GARTL: If you want to outlaw abortion, I hope that you’re ready to line-up on more taxes to fund welfare, public education, and programs like SCHIP.

    • janna says:

      One Saturday a year local anti-abortion folks line one of the busiest roads in town. They hold signs, pass out literature, and lecture folks. At the end of the day they pack up, go out to eat dinner and congratulate themselves on all the hard work they did to help stop abortion. Then they forget all about till the next year.

      • Bucky Plyler says:

        No, they are silent at those events, praying for the state & nation while holding those signs. They work in crisis pregnancy centers, adopt kids, lobby gov’t officals, & vote.

        • janna says:

          Call me jaded Bucky..but I live in a small town and I know the people I see out there. At least here, the vast majority of them aren’t doing anything. To those that do, my hat is off to them with great respect.

          Oh, and they aren’t silent! I can assure you of that.

        • Rick Day says:

          but states and nations are secular in nature, isn’t it going to be more effective to just pray for the dead babbys?

          Oh, forgot. Prayer is ineffective for anything except making one feel like ‘they have done something for the babbys’.

      • ACCmoderate says:

        100 bucks says that if the “pro-life” crowd successfully outlawed abortion, they’d vote against measures that could help those children advance out of poverty and achieve something. Especially if those children happen to be minorities.

  14. ACCmoderate says:

    Can someone please explain to me the logic behind “supporting the sanctity of human life” yet also supporting the death penalty (like Ms. Handel and Mr. Deal both do)?

      • ACCmoderate says:

        I’m pro-choice because I feel that there are better routes to preventing abortion than placing a draconian ban on them and moving abortions into back alleyways.

        I would never personally persue an abortion, nor would I openly encourage any one who solicits my advice on the subject. However, its not my place to tell woman what she should do with her body and with her life.

        As far as capital punishment is concerned, I’m not in favor of the death penalty. I maintain this position despite the fact that one of my close friends was murdered. No punishment is ever going to bring a victim back. Taking another life as “justice” only creates more emotional hurt and pain as the offender’s family now has to cope with the loss of their son/daughter/brother/sister/etc. etc. etc.

    • polisavvy says:

      My logic probably won’t matter to you, but here goes. Some consider abortion the “murder” of a fetus, an innocent. Some consider the death penalty as the “murder” of a person who has usually committed murder as punishment for the act they committed, the guilty. Death of an innocent or death of the guilty. To me there is a huge difference and aren’t really comparable. Of course, that’s just my opinion.

      • ACCmoderate says:

        I respect the opinion… and your logic. I just don’t get the idea of wanting to promote the sanctity of human life while promoting the taking of human life (regardless of whether that life had committed a crime). If all human life is sacred, shouldn’t we be trying to protect it in all its forms?

        • ACCmoderate says:

          And shouldn’t God be the one doling out such a serious punishment as the taking of someone’s life?

          • Tinkerhell says:

            He does but not in this fallen, material world. If someone murders another then that is between that person and God to be settled when the offender leaves this world. God doesn’t do the “retributive strike” thing these days. Old Testament.
            However God has put us in charge of this world and under the authority of government (in it’s various forms) and crimes have punishments.

            I’m ok with capital punishment of some crimes. I’m not a fan of abortion in most circumstances.

        • polisavvy says:

          Sorry, but that wasn’t my opinion. I was trying to explain to you why some people feel the way they do about abortion and the death penalty (at least the people I have asked). I’m afraid to voice my opinion about either — I might have to turn in my membership card.

            • polisavvy says:

              Okay, you brought it out of me — I think it’s a woman’s choice (the day men have babies, they can decide what to do with pregnancies)(and I don’t include the freaky pregnancies), and I believe in the death penalty.

              • B Balz says:

                It takes a lot more for a woman make this sort of admission than for a man to give his opinion.

                I respect you for sharing that very personal opinion, and you have my respect polisavvy.

                • polisavvy says:

                  Thanks, B Balz. I have always felt that way. I remember what some of my friends went through (prior to ’73) having illegal abortions in the back of doctor’s offices and the complications they developed. At that point, I knew that something had to give to where women could have a choice and still be safe in the process. I know that that goes against the grain of most republican women (and definitely republican men), but it’s my choice and it’s how I feel.

                    • polisavvy says:

                      Think about what some of them go through when they are born to someone who resents them or doesn’t love them, or who doesn’t care for them properly, or who abuses them, or who allow others to abuse them. There are some things worse than death. That’s just how I feel about it. You feel the way you want and I won’t criticize, and I’d appreciate the same.

                    • B Balz says:

                      A small diameter tube at the speed of sound?

                      Dear Lord, please forgive me for my intemperate remarks on Peach Pundit today.

                    • polisavvy says:

                      That’s true, though, B Balz. If abortions are done long prior to viability, it’s just as you said. I am not a proponent for abortion as a form of birth control (I had a friend who worked at an abortion clinic in Atlanta and she said that about every three months the same woman came back for an abortion and the government paid for it). I am for it in cases of rape, incest, health of the mother, and for those who absolutely don’t want a child (birth control is not 100%). I never want the pre-1973 days ever again in this country, EVER. I have a friend who had a backroom abortion, she almost died, and was never able to have any children. That should never happen here again.

      • Jimbo says:

        I read that 138 people since 1973 have been released from death row with proof that they were innocent. To me, that is 138 people TOO MANY.
        It is easy to say “Well, that’s ONLY 138 people,” or “murderers deserve to pay for their crimes and we can risk letting them go,” but these are callous, uncaring ways to defend a pro-death penalty viewpoint.
        If pro-lifers believe that ALL life is sacred, shouldn’t that include the lives of those that we can’t prove are guilty?

        • B Balz says:

          Overzealous prosecutors
          + a person with a rap sheet 17 pages long
          + does something stupid, which goes terribly awry
          ____________________________________
          = Death Penalty.

          Great post Jimbo. 1 is 1 too many.

    • macho says:

      Sure, one life is completely innocent with a blank slate and loads of potential. The other life has murdered innocent victims and is considered a threat to society.

  15. KariDee says:

    @accmoderate…….ever heard of “an eye for an eye”…..How can you respect the santity of life of someone who is a murderer? A fetus is an innocent life that should be protected. Theres the difference.

    • ACCmoderate says:

      A murderer is still a human being… regardless of his action.

      Interesting that “eye for an eye” was an idea thought up by a bunch of men.

      Meanwhile, my God, the one of love and compassion, speaks of forgiveness.

      • polisavvy says:

        ACCmoderate, while I believe that God forgives, I believe that he does not forgive all. Some things are unforgivable.

        • ACCmoderate says:

          I think some things are unforgivable by human beings, I believe that God is always willing to forgive the repentant heart.

          After having lived through that situation, I can’t support the death penalty. Like I said earlier, the execution of the accused doesn’t bring the victim back to life. It saddens me to see perfectly nice folks delight in the pain of another. It saddens me to see hurt and pain brought upon the innocent family of the accused because of the selfish action of one person. It’s not justice.

          Life in prison without parole gives an individual time to think about what he/she’s done… maybe they’ll even repent and find God. If they don’t feel sorry for their sins after their time on Earth is through, then that’s between them and God.

          • polisavvy says:

            Well, to take the words of an old judge in Alabama, “not a one who’s been put to death has ever committed another crime.” If it were used more often, and those on death row were not allowed to stay there for years and years, it could actually be a deterrent. I’m just saying . . .

            To me, when they make peace (if they do) before their death, that’s when it’s between them and God. God decides if it’s hell or heaven.

        • B Balz says:

          Oh Boy!

          Let’s start, as Mr. Grammer once suggested to me, on where we agree: Most everyone has to agree that abortion is an abomination. Let’s agree that killing another human being, intentionally, is also wrong.

          I choose that word carefully, it is against virtually any moral constraint to engage in an elective abortion.

          I won’t quibble, it is wrong in virtually every case, including, as horrible as it may seem, to elect abortion in the case of rape or incest. If the abortion is a medical decision, and not elective, that is another matter.

          The question is:

          Is it more wrong to have grown women die as a result of an illegal abortion? Given that abortion may be slowed, as the census figures show, but still numbers in the many hundred of thousands, what is more wrong?

          That is where we will all disagree, but history, our history, shows us grown women died when it was illegal. To me, that is more wrong.

          It is an ethical constraint, there is no right or wrong from an absolute stance. It is unknowable. And abortion ought not be a governmental decision. Zero Federal or local dollars to support or not support abortion, but stay out of it.

          More easily, if the death penalty could be linked to an actual reduction in crime, would it ever be right? Fiscal conservatives should know it costs more to prosecute a death case.

          “Thou shall not kill” does not have an asterisk in either case. The death penalty is more clearly wrong, to me.

          Abortion is wrong, and I believe that it is more wrong to go back to where it did not work before.

        • Jimbo says:

          1 John 1:9 (New International Version)

          9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

  16. Matthew A says:

    Why would GRTL issue such a statement? It comes across as personal and mean spirited. Not the sort of thing that will win hearts and minds. There are far better ways to support Deal than this.

  17. NoTeabagging says:

    I asked at least one candidate, Jeff Chapman, for his specific stance on abortion. His staffer would not commit to a firm answer. Unfortunately, I had to believe he was a hardliner with GRTL, and accepted all their ‘You got knocked up, you gotta deliver it’ stance with his GRTL endorsement. At one debate all the candidates said they believed in GRTL when asked about receiving their endorsement. I could not support these candidates. I am pro-life, but with limits on my right to impose that decision on others without allowing for individual circumstances. GRTL does a great disservice to pro life advocacy and those using IVF responsibly.

  18. God also commands governments to dole out punish upon those who are proven guilty (For he (the one in authority) is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Romans 13:4). As a minister, I have to voice my opinion on this topic.

    The government acts as the hand of God. William Newell covers this well in his commentary on the book of Romans – http://uprisingcog.blogspot.com/2009/12/romans-13-and-capital-punishment.html (Link to Newell’s comments)

    Sorry this may be a shameless plug but I covered this in a post. Murder is a crime and the accepted punishment in our society (in many cases) is death. The innocent children, however, do not have this protection or a voice unless we speak up for them. I am not advocating putting mothers to death for having abortions ;). I just want our society to embrace a better view of life.

    I am tired of religious sounding groups who only have one topic to tout. As a relative told me the other day, GRTL is happy to scream “Thou shall not murder” and lie to get their point across.

    I have spoken to Mrs. Handel and thoroughly understand her stance – even if I have some disagreement with it. You see, I do not have to have a PAC tell me how to think – I pretty good at educating myself – though I have been known to puppet a few things, I do so because I did the research and agreed with a stance.

    If Deal and Handel are for capital punishment then they are acting in the will of the people and acting in the will of God. Hope that makes sense and I tried not to be preachy.

    • Jimbo says:

      “The government acts as the hand of God.”
      Sorry, minister, but I don’t believe that for a second, for the following reasons:
      1. Read “The Innocent Man” by John Grisham. His first nonfiction book details how the prosecutors were dead set for trying to execute a clearly innocent man.
      2. Hitler’s Nazi government
      3. US government 1600s-1865, for keeping slavery legal
      4. Middle Easter sharia law governments
      5. The Spanish and other inquisitions during the Middle Ages, which tried to eradicate Jews and Christians
      6. And, pretty much the entire history of government from the beginning of the earth until the present day. Even the “good” governments of today are good only in comparison to those of hundreds of years ago.

      • ACCmoderate says:

        Pastor, I’ve got to disagree with you.

        Governments are comprised of human beings. Humans, being just that, are not perfect and their decisions are not infallible. To argue that governments act as the “hand of God” would be that governments are infallible, which we know isn’t true.

        God has given us all free will. He’s given us all the choice to live righteously or to deviate from righteousness. As Christ instructed us… “let he who is without sin, throw the first stone.” Judgement does not come from men, but from the Lord. We can pass temporary judgement here on Earth.

        God gives us life. Only God should be allowed to take away life. Not man. Our government should never tell someone that their life is worthless.

        • I never meant to get into theological debate here but…

          I never said that people do not act contrary to the will of God. We are not perfect and the imperfect such as Hitler and Stalin and others of their kind have been removed from power. When authority acts contrary to God’s will, God acts in man to bring about changes – look at our own American Revolution and the necessity of of the Civil War (which was the only way the stubborn South would let go of the evils of slavery).

          Those who live under Sharia law live under oppression and face their guilt constantly because of the misery created by their futile attempts to act in God’s will. This is why “Third World” countries have seen greatness and now experience the devastating consequences born of the practices of Muslim authority. There will never be peace among nations who embrace this erroneous style of governing. God, slow to anger, will leave these countries to endure their suffering until they open their eyes to His righteousness.

          Micah shows how God works among men to try to perfect His will in their governing. Man had made a mockery of God’s justice and His wrath fell upon the entire nation. This is why His Spirit was given after Jesus return to heaven to help teach and instruct. But does man always listen?

          To ignore God’s use of man to bring about justice on earth (as imperfect as man is) is to ignore His commands throughout the Old Testament.

          With free will comes great responsibility. Acting in the name of God or as the hand of God does not mean we do not make mistakes. As a collective, we try to set up the best rules and laws necessary to reflect our moral understanding of God’s justice and mercy. Capital punishment is not condemned anywhere in the Bible. Fallacious abuse of God’s imparted authority, however, is – again, the Hitlers and Sharia laws and such are proof of man’s gross misunderstandings and outright rebellion against God’s design for governing.

          Romans 13 goes on to say that love does no harm – but not all are held subject to this love because they have yet to experience God’s forgiveness. They, instead, remain under the Law (see the Old Testament and Galatians). God’s judgment and His decisions on punishment were written clearly for those who choose to remain under the law whether they accept the Law or refuse to acknowledge it. Our justice system is meant to reflect the judgment already passed on mankind for their sins. For all fall short of God’s glory and that is punishable by death. Read Numbers 35:31 and 33 for a better take on God’s given rule for those who murder.

          Unfortunately not all of our Founding Fathers were Christians – they were deists who believed that God left us to fend for ourselves. This is where our history opens the door for punishments that includes death. Right or not, this was man’s understanding of God’s judgment interpreted from Old Testament rules and regulations established by God (read Exodus and Leviticus). We have yet to prove this thinking wrong or immoral – what’s good for the Bible is good for man including punishment (or so the thoughts go).

          As for the Jesus quote, that is a little out of context. The men who brought the sinful woman before Christ had the right under the Law to stone her to death. Their mission was not to challenge that right but to trap Jesus into making a bad decision. Christ countered their argument and said they were right – she should be stoned to death! But he was the only one left standing there who was without sin. He choose mercy because he wants us to understand the power of His love to cover sin and remove it and to forgive. Besides, where was the man caught in adultery? He was supposed to face the same punishment as the woman – death.

          Jesus also said he did not come to condemn nor to remove the law from mankind (“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” Matt 5:17 (NIV)). He came to help man live without the guilt that the law produces within us. The only way man can live this way is to repent and ask Christ to be their Lord and Savior.

          As for the death penalty, governments are justified in their actions. Does it mean it is wrong to put someone to death under the law? No. Does it mean it is wrong to allow someone who takes a life to live? No. Government is not a living entity – it is amoral. Man brings morality to it. When a governor acts in accordance of the will of those governed and an execution is carried out – the governor is acting in accordance to the authority given to them by God. They will not be held accountable for the laws established.

          God makes changes or removes entire governments when He cannot get through to them – prophets and ministers and others have been used as God’s heralds since the beginning of time. Noah was a herald and no one listen and the entire world was flooded.

          Shall I call God’s issuance of justice through government a farce? By no means. But when injustice happens as with the death of the innocent baby and the government does nothing to protect them – then I as a Christian must speak up.

          I again point you to the words of Newell who deals with the topic of capital punishment with much grace.

          God allows authority in the hands of man and gives us the free will to respond to His will. So when I say the government is the hand of God in justice it is. We choose how we will wield this power – with His justice and righteousness or in rebellion. I choose the former.

          I could go on and on but I am taking up a lot of space. Please forgive me for being preachy but I did not want you to misconstrue my meaning. Thank you for this constructive discussion! I like talking about these issues and you both have brought out insightful concerns.

          • ACCmoderate says:

            Pastor, I appreciate the long response. I would love to debate it in its entirety, but there was one paragraph that stood out and shocked me.

            1) “Those who live under Sharia law live under oppression and face their guilt constantly because of the misery created by their futile attempts to act in God’s will.”

            Those living under Sharia law aren’t living under oppression and misery, they’re living in accordance with their faith. If you flipped off Fox News and cracked open the Koran, you’d see that Islam worships the same God as you and me.

            There’s a cultural relativism at play here. The Middle East is a different culture than here in the US. Their attitudes toward faith and how it should be practiced are radically different than ours. Islam itself is much more demanding than many Christian faiths. That doesn’t make it illegitimate, it makes it unique.

            If they’re worshiping the same God in their own way, why are they failing to act in His will? Just because something doesn’t line up with your perceptions, doesn’t make it invalid. Have you ever thought that maybe they’re right and we’re wrong?

            2) “This is why “Third World” countries have seen greatness and now experience the devastating consequences born of the practices of Muslim authority.”

            Um, as someone with a background in international trade and development, I can assure you that there are an overwhelming number of Christian countries that make up the “third world.”

            But, I don’t want to get into semantics. Are Muslim countries among the poorest in the world? These citizens in Muslim countries aren’t poor because God has forsaken them, they’re poor because oil wealth has been concentrated in the aristocracy and not spread to every citizen (sound like capitalism to you?).

            3) “There will never be peace among nations who embrace this erroneous style of governing.”

            What makes their style of governing erroneous? Is it erroneous because it conflicts with YOUR view about how government should function? Like I mentioned earlier, there is a cultural relativism at play. If you’re relying on the argument that the consent of the governed is God’s infallible will, then why is the consent of those governed in Muslim countries less infallible?

            The people that live there, on the whole, just want to have a job, have a family, and practice their faith. For many Muslims, their faith is a central part of their lives 7 days a week… I don’t see anything wrong with that.

            4) “God, slow to anger, will leave these countries to endure their suffering until they open their eyes to His righteousness.”

            These people are worshiping God. Not blaspheming Him. Just because someone else’s lifestyle or mode of worship does not line up with yours does not mean it’s wrong. Again, I’m going to belabor this point, they worship the same God as us. They love the same God as us. This is their means of showing that love.

            God will never leave someone to suffer if they follow Him.

            I hope you see what I’m trying to say in this argument. Claiming that Islamic government is against the will of God makes you come across as ignorant.

  19. PegM says:

    Isn’t about time that we quit giving a tinker’s damn what GRTL has to say? I’m sick and tired of candidates beginning a stump speech stating “I’ve been endorsed by GRTL”. Quite frankly that turns me off because it’s usually completely irrelevant to the office they are seeking. These social issues are private and personal and should not be part of a political discourse. And, outside of the political junkies and GOP regulars, the majority of citizens have more open minded views on those life issues and spurn the GRTL party line.

    • Provocateur says:

      Sure. But, why does Karen Handel give a tinker’s damn about it by going so far as to compose an entire press release about a statement someone who isn’t running for office said?

  20. macho says:

    It’s a tough issue. I used to consider myself reluctantly pro-choice. But the day I saw my baby on a sonogram, my attitude instantly changed to pro-life. I looked at that little head, hands and feet and said, “That’s a baby.”

      • polisavvy says:

        I want you to understand something. I have two sons. I couldn’t imagine my life would be without them. They have made life worth living. Having said that, just because you, macho, and I feel that way, it doesn’t mean that others shouldn’t be able to have a choice. It’s not one I would ever have made. But, on the flip side, I shouldn’t force my decision on someone else and I certainly shouldn’t criticize them for making that very tough decision.

        • B Balz says:

          I paid for a GF”s abortion in college, and had an open adoption. I guess you could say, I am well versed on the topic, for a guy.

          • polisavvy says:

            It appears as though you are indeed well versed. Glad we shared this information, how about you?

            • B Balz says:

              Everyone has an opinion, some based on experience, others not so much. Did we accomplish anything?

              Both experiences were memorable, one in a horrible way, the other joyous.

              GRTL, the State, Dems or GOP did not factor into either.

              Most Georgians, gladly, have an opinion on moral issues. That is one reason why I love it here.

            • B Balz says:

              Everyone has an opinion, some based on experience, others not so much. Did we accomplish anything? Both experiences were memorable, one in a horrible way, the other joyous.

              GRTL, the State, Dems or GOP did not factor into either.

              Most Georgians, gladly, have an opinion on moral issues. That is one reason why I love it here.

                • macho says:

                  But of course, if it’s a human life, then you’re basically saying we should be more tolerant of people who believe in killing.

        • macho says:

          I know this is a complex issue and it took me a while to come around to pro-life. You have to look at it from the perspective of the person. If you look at it from the pro-choice perspective, the “I shouldn’t force my beliefs on someone else” argument makes perfect sense. But if you look at from the perspective of someone who believes that it’s a human being in there (which I do), you’re basically saying, “you might be against murder, and that’s perfectly okay, but why would your force that belief on someone else? It doesn’t mean someone else shouldn’t have murder as a choice.”

          • B Balz says:

            So macho, what about a set of cells, the very starting block of life? What is your view on using those cells in medically controlled, ethically governed research.

            To be clear, there are no little arms or legs or anything else resembling a baby. But it is the beginning of the life process, no doubt about that.

            The life process will be stopped, but millions may benefit. Would you take the cure?

            To date nothing has been cured by this research, yet the science behind is compelling. Opponents say, HOGWASH, it won’t work and you are killing babies. SEE ABOVE.

            BTW, currently those sets of cells are being thrown away, so the life process is stopped. Some say Doctors should be forced to limit the number of cell sets to eliminate the throwing away business.

            Others say that will hamper the purpose of having these sets of cells – Getting pregnant.

            This is kind of grey, macho. I am curious though, what do you think?

    • Provocateur says:

      Just out of curiosity, have you ever made a similar statement in regards to any left wing political entity….like, say People for the American Way…or anything like them?

      • Progressive Dem says:

        I had to look up that organization. I can’t remember them saying anything, or having any impact on a campaign in Georgia. Can you give me an example of a left wing organization in Georgia that is a ‘must have’ endorsement for a Democratic candidate? I’m having a hard time thinking of such an organization.

        The GOP candidate has to be highly rated by the NRA, GRTL and it used to be a requirement to have the good housekeeping seal of approval from the Christian Coalition. I’m not saying Democrats in Georgia don’t seek or want endorsements, but its not comparable to the GOP. If GOP candidate didn’t have a gold star from the NRA, his primary opponents would beat him/her to bloody pulp.

        More specifically to your question; sure I’ve blanched at some comments from left wing groups. And there is always somebody on Fox News, or talk radio or Peach Pundit calling them out.

  21. I suppose this is considered a politically crafty move by Handel’s campaign in that they’ve taken a ludicrous statement made by a relatively insignificant person and put it front and center before the runoff. Perhaps, Mrs. Handel’s campaign would be better advised to spend their time selling her position on abortion as conducive to that of most Georgians – rather than trying to pigeonhole Mr. Deal into denouncing one of his own supporters.

    I mean, really… how many votes does she think this will win her?

  22. EthicsEther says:

    And, the GRTL voice is about as charismatic as a train horn blast, they might soften their tone. But then, Karen Handel’s self interest screeching siren is even worse.

    If anyone should shut up it is Karen Handel, as she is the one who is involved in self interested goals. At least GRTL has a sincere following with a philosophic center that is authentic.

  23. TPNoGa says:

    Well, I am 100% pro-life and I support Karen Handel 100%! In fact, the GRTL made me mad enough to donate money to Karen, in a year I swore I wouldn’t give money to any politician.

    First of all, the GA governor has nothing to do with abortion. Unfortunately, it’s a federal issue as long as Roe v. Wade is upheld.

    Second, I am 100% sure Karen would support any reasonable law passed by the legislature.

    Third, Deal, IMHO, would not serve our state very well. He is not very statesman like. His calling people welfare queens or whatever he called them, plus the birther issue is not something we should tolerate in the GOP.

    Fourth, Deal is the poster child for Washington insider. He had some pretty non-conservative votes while in congress. Sorry, he can call himself the true conservative all he wants, but votes speak louder.

    Fifth, I really feel fiscal issues are the important issues facing GA, not abortion or gay marriage. On fiscal issues, I believe Karen is a lot more serious than Nathan. She seems to be putting forward a plan to save our finances, Nathan just keeps saying he’s “the only true conservative” line he’s been spouting.

    I have to be honest. I was a late-comer to the Handel party. I was a supporter of Austin Scott (I would still vote for him if he were running). I had issues with Karen’s lack of a college degree. But after learning of her life story, I was sold.

    On August 10th, I will proudly vote for Karen Handel for Governor. And I promise, I will never give one red cent to the GRTL.

    • TPNoGa says:

      I will add, that I am not one of these people who will scream that I would never vote for Deal in the general election, because I probably would vote for him over Barnes.

    • “..the GA governor has nothing to do with abortion..”

      False.

      Legislation involving abortion is introduced every year in the Georgia General Assembly (parental consent, informed consent, limitations on late-term abortions, etc.) and the governor is in the position to sign or veto the bills. More importantly, the governor can be a pro-life leader who pushes for such legislation to limit abortion, or a pro-life milquetoast who doesn’t take any position and might sign a bill if it passes but does nothing to help it pass, or who actual vetoes it. The governor can lead to protect the unborn, or try to pretend that only materialist concerns like roads & taxes matter.

      Also remember if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, the issue will revert to the states, and the governors will all become major players.

      • TPNoGa says:

        Om a purely “legal” basis, I believe that it would not be right to force women who were raped to carry to term. Also, life of the mother, how can you force a woman to carry to term if it will kill her.

        Additionally, if we do outlaw abortion, I think we shouldn’t send the women to prison, the prison terms should be reserved for the abortionist.

        That’s my definition of reasonable.

  24. Tyler says:

    Deal voted for this:

    http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=7893&can_id=26824

    HR 670
    -Authorizes $470 million in grants and contracts for family planning services – -Authorizes $25.5 million for informational and educational materials for family planning projects and programs
    -Authorizes $13.25 million in 1994 and 1995 for training grants and contracts to family planning projects and programs
    -Requires any entity that performs abortions and receives federal funds to certify that it complies with any State law requiring parental notification.

    How does he attack Handel on abortion with this vote he took as a Congressman?

    • Doctor Death says:

      Read the bill Tyler instead of taking these out of Context.

      “Vote to pass a bill that requires family planning projects receiving federal funding provide information concerning prenatal care and delivery, infant care, foster care, adoption and termination of pregnancy to individuals that request the information. Requires family planning projects that object to giving out such information on religious or moral grounds refer individuals to another service that will provide the information.”

      Many conservative Republicans supported this bill.

    • Lady Thinker says:

      Would this, could this be, the same Henry Waxman who posts here? I wonder if GRTL knew this when they backed Nathan Deal? Of course, Deal was a Democrat then.

      Abortion Counseling Bill

      Key Votes:
      HR 670

      Issues: Abortion Issues, Budget, Spending and Taxes, Reproductive Issues
      Date: 03/25/1993
      Sponsor: Rep. Waxman, Henry (D-CA)

      Roll no. 107

      Bill Passed
      (House)
      How members voted
      (273 – 149)

      Deal voted YES

  25. Provocateur says:

    “Requires any entity that performs abortions and receives federal funds to certify that it complies with any State law requiring parental notification.”

    Would you rather it be written as “Requires any entity that performs abortions and receives federal funds to ignore state laws on parental notification.”?

    This bill was in 1993…Deal was a Democrat then…he became a Republican in 1995, and he changed his mind on abortions. MOST people would applaud that “change of mind.”

    But…no, not here…not on Sock Puppet Theater.

  26. Provocateur says:

    GRTL Crozier dared to put actual names and faces to a philosophy that Handel actually holds…and you guys lose your cool.

    • Tyler says:

      I had a GRTL member tell me that if a candidate paid for or had an abortion, but was pro-life in their platform, they could still get their endorsement. GRTL is illegitimate. They have endorsed Deal who voted this way in the past and that should immediately rule him out.

      • Pine Knot says:

        Life begins at conception. Nathan Deal was the Co-Sponser of H.R.618 Right to Life Act.
        Deal is endorsed by Georgia Right to Life. He is rated 100% by National Right to Life and 0% by NARAL. He also earned a 93% rating from the Christian Coalition. Deal has an A rating from the National Rifle Association. Deal has an A rating from the National Rifle Association. Deal is rated 17% by the NEA. This indicates a voting record against the education establishment. Nathan has signed the Americans for Tax Reform’s pledge to not raise taxes. Nathan Deal is a conservative, and I agree with Eric Johnson, Sarah endorsed the most liberal Republican in the race.

        • Tyler says:

          Pine Knot,

          Georgia Right to Life has shot themselves in the foot with their endorsement of Deal and Ox. Deal may have Co-Sponsored the Right to Life Act, but this vote is directly contrary to that.

          Sorry, No Deal.

          • Pine Knot says:

            He has a 100% rating with National Right to Life. Any member of Congress, who has been in there for a while, no matter far to the left the are, or in Deal’s case, how strong of a Conservative they are, will have people on the left, and in Nathan’s case on the right, who will disagree with some of their votes. You can get a barometer of the political environment at the time by seeing who voted with them. In Nathan’s case, some of the votes we have been discussing have also been supported by Eric Cantor, John Kyl, Mitch McConnell, and other reliable Conservatives.

          • TPNoGa says:

            “Sorry, No Deal.” I want that on a sign I can put in my yard! Awesome!

            So, Deal voted to fund abortions. Nice. What a freaking hypocrite.

            • B Balz says:

              The matter is never on or off, black or white, and what I find amazing is how simplistic many seem to make it.

              The entire discussion leads me to believe that the views of a fairly closed minded bunch are arguing to run things.

              The GOP stands for more of what I do believe, than the simplistic, almost childlike commentary. Fiscal conservatism is the hot button. G’d, guns, gays, not so much.

              Stridency by the GOP on abortion and more importantly legitimate embryonic stem cell research will help give Roy a win.

              Some people play checkers, while others prefer chess. Checkers is easy and fun and you don’t have grey in checkers.

        • John Konop says:

          Pine Knot,

          Deal also got great rankings on votes that took from a surplus to massive red ink! I suggest people think for themselves not follow paid interest groups.

        • EBurkeDisciple says:

          I can love the ratings you quote for Deal but I also point to his tenure. He participated in the most Presidency for Republicans and he supported that massive government expansion with but a peep. There are ways to rate well without being a principled conservative. He is well connected – too well connected. The Republican power structure is only slightly better than the Dark Forces. I will not transplant that from DC to ATL.

  27. AthensRepublican says:

    Three more weeks of all this? Social issues are what’s on the mind of the remaining GOP candidates and Barnes is talking about the economy and jobs (even though he may be wrong). It seems neither Deal nor Handel deserve election to this office and I will have to hold my nose when I make a selection. I would like to see them in a debate if Ms. Handel will participate.

    • Pine Knot says:

      Deal will clean Handel’s clock in a debate. I can’t wait for a couple of debates. Not many people watch them I am afraid. The media covers them good, but I think that the liberal Atlanta media will give Handel a pass, given that she is one of them. Handel has no excuse not to debate now that Ray is out. I give her credit though. She found a good reason not be in the debates. IMO it helped her with some voters by “taking a stand” to Ray, but it hurt her by not debating, as the voters deserve to know how she stands. It’s all a wash.

      • AthensRepublican says:

        She does not have a reason now that McBerry is out. I really don’t know much about her opinions and was not able to hear them since she was not in any debates and I don’t make selections based on mailpieces, TV ads and what others say on PP. From what I have seen I am not impressed with how she handles herself under pressure and makes me doubt her ability to be an effective Governor. Though what I heard from Deal did not impress me. Apparently, jobs and the economy are not important to him only social issues.

  28. Doug Grammer says:

    If you recall, I called Dan Becker when he made his remarks almost two months ago. He explained the me that the words “barren” and “infertile” WERE NOT aimed at Sec. Handel, and in fact refer to a stated position on the GRTL website.

    http://www.grtl.org/positionstatements.asp

    INVITRO FERTILIZATION
    GRTL opposes invitro fertilization as a technology when it ignores rather than enhances respect for human life. Whereas we sympathize with infertile couples, we cannot ignore the fact that research and clinical trials for this procedure have involved the destruction of newly conceived human embryos in the laboratory.

    This was the reply from Becker of GRTL in early June, in a telephone interview with the AJC:

    “Someone’s desperate right to parenthood – because they’re infertile, they’re barren, whatever term you want to use – is an emotionally fraught subject that has our highest sympathy. But it should never be attempted to be addressed where a life is taken in the process.”

    Mr. Becker chimed in on PP, and further explained himself and apologized.

    http://www.peachpundit.com/2010/06/05/dan-becker-continues-to-embarass-himself-hurt-pro-life-cause/#comments

    “My comment was NEVER directed AT Mrs. Handel and my very real public apology for everyone who took it that way from Galloway’s article.”

    With all of that being said, the first thing I want to do was dismiss the propaganda that Mr. Becker attacked Sec. Handel personally.

    However, Melanie Crozier, IMO has distorted Sec. Handel’s position on right to life from what I have read. If Mrs.(?) Crozier has a survey response or other communication from Sec. Handel that states that Sec. Handel is in favor of allowing abortions in cases of down syndrome, then her remarks are right on the money. If she can’t produce something to back up her claims, I’ll join Sec. Handel in calling for her resignation. Calling for Mr. Becker’s resignation is not appropriate, IMO.

    Here’s the thing about Georgia Right to life. In case you haven’t noticed, they play hardball. They have ONE issue, and they don’t care if a candidate is robbing a bank while they fill out their right to life survey. If a candidate answers the questions they care about, in they way they care about, nothing else matters. I don’t always agree with the way they do things, but they have been effective for many years in raising their issue.

    I’m pro-life. I am not a fan of planned parenthood. I didn’t care when Sec. Handel voted to given them funds in 2003. If the funds were earmarked and going to happen already, then the Fulton County commission didn’t need to vote on it. It’s a weak excuse that doesn’t wash.

    My question, still unanswered, is was Fulton county required to give those funds to an organization and was Planned Parenthood the only organization that applied? If that’s the case, that’s a much more palatable context.

    I am not happy with Congressman Deal’s vote in 1993 on HR 670. I don’t presume to know if he changed his outlook on his own since then or if it was just that he switched parties and some of our philosophies have rubbed off on him. I am happier with his votes in this area since then.

    I consider both candidates pro-life. If that’s the primary runoff voter’s sole issue, I will let them decide on who they think is more pro-life.

    As far as how someone can be both pro-life and pro-death penalty, add one word: Innocent. If people are innocent, be it before they are out of the womb or accused of murder, don’t kill them. If there is absolute DNA evidence and a confession with no questions about it, then the death penalty maybe warranted in the most extreme cases. As far as only letting God take a life, we are here to do his will. God won’t keep people locked up, unless he does it through us. The same holds true with capital punishment.

    • The Federal Government designates where and for what purpose federal funds will be used. The Federal Government then distributes those federal funds to State and Local governments, with instructions as to where and how they are to be used. In this case, The Federal Government forwarded those funds that were specified to be given to Planned Parenthood and directed the Fulton County Board of Commissioners to distribute the funds. The Fulton County Board of Commissioners was directed to distribute those funds to Planned Parenthood for the purpose the Federal Government had already determined.

      Karen Handel, as Director of the Fulton County Board of Commissioners, and the other Commissioners of the Fulton County Board had no power to change what the Congress had debated and directed, the President had approved and for which the U. S. Treasury had issued the funds.

      She could have played politics but to what end – Congress would have found another way of getting the money to where they issued it.

      • EBurkeDisciple says:

        davidgraceblog askes to what end? To the end that her conscience was clear. She didn’t even make a statement of public disgust. Unless we send people to the capital that are willing to do what is right at any cost we will continue the slide into the dirt.

  29. ACCmoderate says:

    IF there’s one thing that I’ve learned about politics its this:

    When a candidate is “outraged” and asks fellow candidates to join him/her in their “outrage,” he/she is most likely faking said “outrage” to score political points.

    Did GRTL say something offensive… yes. The comment shouldn’t be offensive to Ms. Handel, it should be offensive to Ms. Palin. However, Karen won’t let this slip by without commenting on how angry she is and how Nathan Deal should be angry too.

    Save me the politics as usual Rosie.

  30. Scott65 says:

    Hmmmm…what would Sadie Fields do? Not this I bet. She at least had some political skills

  31. EBurkeDisciple says:

    The problem here is that we ended up with the two most known politicians – NOT even close to the two best. We are left with only SAD choices – again. Wake up. Both these candidates have a spotted history on the LIFE issue.

    I think I will ultimately agree that Handel is better than Deal but it will still take a ‘nose holding’ visit to the ballot box. Republicans didn’t do themselves any favors here.

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