Why Karen Handel will not be the GOP nominee

Karen Handel was never the Social Conservative choice for Governor. Her career wasn’t built on blaming illegal Mexicans for all the woes of a lazy and under-educated American workforce. As the chairwoman of a county that had one of the nation’s largest gay communities, she didn’t find some way to blame them for all the problems actually caused by discredited leftists policies pushed by race-warlords like Emma Darnell.

Karen was the choice for those of us who didn’t care if you were sexually attracted to Eve or Steve. She was the choice for those of us who think our problems are related to an entitled populace who believes that not only do they deserve free cake, but they should be able to eat as much of it as they want, get fat, and have someone else pay for their healthcare.

Karen is the only one in the GOP race who knows, as Roy Barnes said, you can’t bring jobs to Georgia when the rest of the country is laughing at us. And they aren’t just laughing over micro-chipped cooters. They’re laughing at Speakers who fake suicide attempts to get attention. They’re laughing at the Georgia First creeps who support state sovereignty so they can molest little girls. They’re laughing at the country bumpkins who care more about a flag that symbolizes oppression to 40% of the population, than a candidate’s policies. They laugh at us because we can’t buy beer on Sunday.

You can clearly see from Karen’s interview with Doug Richards that she didn’t give one flip about gay marriage or gay adoption. She was irritated that there were real issues to be discussed and Richards was waisting her time with this crap. But because once, several years ago, she tried to reach out to a group of Gay Republicans, her opponents pandered to the homophobes in the GOP to paint her as pro-gay. And because stupid stuff gets better ratings than substantive discussions of issues, the media lapped it all up.

Karen should be pushing an agenda of jobs, transportation, education and growth. Instead, because Georgians are a bunch of homophobes, she has to spend all her time trying to be more anti-gay than the walking indictment known as Ox, and the guy run out of congress on ethics violations.

In the process she has alienated those who would vote for her because she doesn’t care who you marry. The bigots were never going to vote for her anyway. They were gonna vote Deal and Ox. And if you’re a Deal or Ox supporters, you don’t care about a candidate’s ethics anyway, so she wouldn’t get their support in the Run-Off.

To win the Runoff, Karen had to show she was the one best qualified to Govern. And she still is the most qualified to govern. But because she’s spent the last few weeks on the defensive over issues that only matter to narrow-minded rednecks, she’s lost the support of the middle. And as anyone whose looked at a bell curve knows, the middle is bigger than the fringe.

Karen’s place was never on the far right. If it was, I wouldn’t have been supporting her since she began looking at this race. Instead of saying that Gays are people too, she’s joined with the rest of the religious nutters in saying their marriages aren’t legitimate and they can’t be good parents.

Most of you know I work in IT. Folks in IT tend to be pretty solutions oriented. Which product works best, has the lowest Total Cost of Ownership, delivers the features, and can deploy fastest. Outside politics, my associations and friendships are all people who inhabit the middle. I work hard to convince the middle they should support their own economic interests and vote Republican. Because at the end of the day, the Democrats do not support the individual spirit of freedom and innovation that made America great, and the Libertarians nominate which ever unqualified crackpot they can find to pay the filing fee.

The middle should be voting Republican. But thanks to Republicans who think the greatest issues facing the nation are two guys getting married, having to hear “press 2 for spanish”, and whether or not a terminal cancer patient must live in agony till his metabolism fully stops, the middle rejected you.

They rejected you in 2008 for Barack Obama. A do-nothing, know-nothing half term Senator.

And they will reject you again for Roy Barnes. And you know what. You deserve it.


  1. Provocateur says:

    Can I nominate this post to be the weirdest post I’ve seen in a long time? It is “weird” because it is written after a day of supposed “all good news” for Chris’s favorite candidate, Karen Handel.

    Sorry, Chris…not that you’re weird…but the post is just bizarre in terms of content and timing of the content.

  2. Skyler Akins says:

    This article is beautifully written, and says what we’ve all been thinking. You’re totally right about her not being the Social Conservative choice, and she has totally lost the center that she had wrapped up by joining in on the hatred of gay, tax paying Georgians. As a Democrat, I had admired Handel at one time, for being principled, and not joining in on the “gay people are after children” like Deal Said, and that gay pride is a “march of the infidels” like Oxendine did, but this interview she recently did stating that I as a gay person am not qualified to be a parent or entitled to any civil rights, makes me despise Handel, and lose any respect I ever had for her. She also lost several of my Republican-leaning friends that were going to vote for her because she was the moderate alternative to the bigoted, hateful group of the alpha males club.

  3. 1) Saying, “she tried to reach out to a group of Gay Republicans” is downplaying it. Do you need to write them a check in order to “reach out”? Couldn’t you just have a meeting with them?

    2) “Her career wasn’t built on blaming illegal Mexicans…” Yet being a big public supporter of voter photo ID (which does nothing to reduce absentee voter fraud, btw) has been one of her signature issues. Are you sure you understand who you were supporting initially, or were you projecting certain values onto her?

    3) “She was the choice for those of us who think our problems are related to an entitled populace who believes that not only do they deserve free cake, but they should be able to eat as much of it as they want, get fat, and have someone else pay for their healthcare.” Are you saying she is the only candidate opposed to Obama-care?

    4) “And she still is the most qualified to govern.” Like Gail Buckner said in 2006, Handel is a job hopper who stays in a position just long enough to land the next job. Ambition does not necessarily equal experience or qualifications. If you want to go on pure qualifications (which I don’t) Oxendine has run a large agency for a longer period of time than Handel. Heck, Roy Barnes has been governor! Her qualifications are fine but not overwhelming. We haven’t elected an SOS as governor since the 1800s.

    It sounds like you’re disappointed in the campaign of somebody who’s always been a political opportunist anyway. Handel is like Romney. When you’re in your liberal home (Mass., Fulton, whatever) you present yourself as moderate. When you run national or statewide, you present yourself as a conservative.

    I’m not sure you how you know what Handel has ever believed.

  4. Pine Knot says:

    Ok?? So you are calling the voters in the Georgia Republican Party, country bumpkins, homophobes , bigots, narrow-minded rednecks, and religious nutters. What you did not mention is that Karen Handel lied. BTW, the ethics probe could have been released at any time. Nathan pushed back his exit to campaign because of the very important healthcare vote. Also, Nathan has been much more competative in the polls since he left to campaign. Alot of these polls were conducted before Newt endorsed him, and after the lady from Alaska endorsed him. Newt is from Georgia. You do the math. Nathan will be in the runoff, and we need an honerable man like him to be our Governor.

    • GOPwits says:

      Deal is the furthest thing away from Honorable.

      Not only did he get rich thanks to a secret arrangement with the state for over 18 years, but he used his Congressional Office to try and maintain the relationship so that he’d have a guaranteed revenue stream.

      Furthermore, Deal is a bigot. He referred to a large segment of Georgia’s population as “ghetto grandmothers”. That’s pure offensive and then he turned around and blamed his opponents for his words and used the situation to raise money.

      Finally, it was Deal who launched one of the most negative, mean spirited campaigns ever, making false accusations against Handel left and right on the campaign trail.

      Deal is an old corrupt politician and Georgia doesn’t need anymore of those…

  5. AlliDoIsWin says:

    So basically what you are saying is when your candidate finally gets exposed for who and what she really is…quit

  6. Doug Deal says:

    Does this have something to do with that unsightly new “wibiya” bar at the bottom of the screen that looks like it is trying to steal our identities?

        • Baker says:

          Ha, I just checked that out. Awesome.

          Maybe they’re on a boat? Marooned on an island with only a laptop and a monkey? Maybe their plane crashed and they’re in a purgatory that still has internet access?

  7. Jane says:

    Most if not all, but one of the GOP candidates are fairly mainstream. Oxendine may be a whealer dealer, but he is part of the main stream, at least as much as Whealer Dealers like Barnes and Zell miller. Johnson is main stream, so is Deal. Yes, there are differences in style between most of these candidates, but on most issues they are fairly consistant. The exception is Handel who as a moderate will and choosen of Purdue will take the safe route rather than a conservative aproach to government. Since, I think there is no way in hell that the Dems will carry Georgia, we need to elect someone who is bolder and not give Purdue a third term.

    • GOPwits says:

      Handel is a life long Conservative Republican Jane…

      She’s the only one who has put forward a real plan to actually cut the size of government and lower the cost of government so that we can have lower taxes. That’s what real conservatives do…

      Both Deal and Johnson have played shell games with their “conservatism” in the past. Deal in Congress by supporting bloated budgets, runaway spending, and pork barrel earmarks. Deal was part of the crowd that, while yes, they cut taxes in Washington, they passed the buck down to the states and that’s where our man Johnson picks up.

      Being a true career politician and only doing things that LOOK conservative, Johnson and Company cut taxes on the state level to only see them increase on the local level. Seriously, have your property taxes gone up? How about the cost of college tuition? You can’t play games with people’s money and pass funny money tax cuts and call your self a conservative.

      Karen is the only person running who has the tenacity to actually implement the bold conservative agenda she has put forward.

      • Provocateur says:

        Handel is Perdue’s protege, and looked at how much he promised, and how little he delivered. I say “No Thank You” to extending the Perdue administration any amount of time more.

  8. I Am Jacks Post says:

    Poor Karen. Guess honesty really IS the best policy.

    “And she still is the most qualified to govern.”

    Umm, based on what, exactly?

    • redrock says:

      I was wondering the same thing. Handel supporters love to throw around baseless claims….

  9. Progressive Dem says:

    The social conservatives will have the same impact on the next presidential race. They will drive away the vast middle and ensure an Obama victory. They will drive away the youth vote, women, blacks, Hispanics, gays and Jews and large segments of the professional class for the reasons stated above. I understand voting for your pocketbook. I don’t understand voting for intolerance of people who are different than you are.

    • TPNoGa says:

      I am sorry, but they thought the same thing in 1980. Reagan was radical, no one will vote for him. How many states did Carter win? The GOP will win in 2010, and we stand at least a 50/50 chance of reclaiming the White House.

    • Monica says:

      Politically I don’t like you cause you’re a dem (please, reconsider :). But you’re exactly right, because of what you said I’m not registered as Rep (definitely not dem though). If they let go of this idiotic social agenda that is by the way completely not consistent with the Republican platform of economic and PERSONAL freedom from government, I would be registered Republican. If Deal or Oxendine are GOP candidates and Barnes on the Dem side, I will vote for John Monds the Libertarian.

  10. rebelrepublican says:

    WOW, what a well written piece! You hit the nail right on the head! YES, the Republican party IS made up of Homophobes..In Georgia, if you are not white, heterosexual, and a Protestant, you do not belong here….This IS an ass backwards state,,,,no alcohol on Sundays? Give me a freaking break…Repubs are for small business but they don’t want them to Open on Sunday because their “Pastor” or the religious zealots might object…They are so seedy here it is unbelievable. Imagine if a politician wanted to grant domestic benefits to gays??? lol they were burn his/her house down…put the white sheets away stop messing with your sister and welcome to the 21 st century

    • euda says:

      “rebel republican”…I must ask you why you have not moved to some other state that would not cause you so much anguish? It is a tad obvious that you have some dislike for the state of Georgia. Unfortunate the very adjectives that you put before her name are so blatantly a part of who you are that it is almost (not quite) humorous. Get lost.

  11. galiberal says:

    To be honest, Republicans have no one to blame but themselves for this. You guys spent 2004 demonizing gays and then spent 2006 demonizing illegal immigrants. Now elements within the Tea Party have taken up the fight against blacks.

    You guys are just feeling the aftershocks of exactly what you have created in the past 10 years – running on non-issues like Gay Marriage and Immigrants taking jobs instead of lowering the deficit and fixing the health care system.

    You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.

  12. analogkid says:

    Except for the “most qualified” part, Chris nailed it. Karen may be “Fulton’s Own,” but she has alienated the moderates this cycle, most of whom are located in Fulton in DeKalb.

  13. Doug Grammer says:

    Interesting post. Attacking the GOP to help win votes in a GOP primary is not the strategy I would have gone with. To be clear, I’m talking about Chris, not Sec. Handel.

    I think Sec. Handel would make a fine governor, but she’s not the only one in the GOP primary who would either. I understand persuasion. I also understand devotion. What some of the front page posters are lacking is objectivity. I don’t consider most bloggers the same way I think about at most/some journalists. Occasionally, there needs to be a breath of air and someone needs to at least try to look objective. Being fair, most front page posters are admitted to be in one camp or another and never claimed to be objective. This does make a few of us at least smile, if not laugh at PP. I keep telling myself after the primaries are over, it might get better.

    I don’t think Georgia is a laughing stock and I don’t care that much about not being able to buy beer on Sunday. Many states are having massive tax increases or increased debt and we are not. Yes, we have found fat to trim and I think there is still more to go. More people are moving here than leaving, so we are doing something right.

    Gov. Barnes won’t be a pushover if he’s the Dem nominee, but I think the state will get a new GOP governor, and maybe, just maybe all of the other statewide offices.

    • Progressive Dem says:

      Things aren’t going as well you might expect. Metro Atlanta has been the job engine for this state for the past 50 years. However, from 2000-2009, the core 10 counties lost 96,000 jobs! From 2006-2009 the 20 county Atlanta area lost 127,000 jobs. Only four metro areas lost more jobs than metro Atl in the recession (as % of total employment). Without jobs being created, migration to Georgia is the slowest since the 1950’s.

      Getting those jobs back won’t be easy. People are laughing at preachers who want guns in their churches, they are laughing at boat ramps being an economic development strategy. They are laughing at creationism being called science. They are shaking their heads at secessionists, nullifiers and birthers. They are not going to locate businesses in places with with terrible school performance, world class traffic congestion and an uncertain water supply.

      The GOP is focused on gays and immigration. Those are political diversions to solving the issues that count.

      • Doug Grammer says:

        I won’t deny Georgia has lost jobs. Unless you have been in a coma, every state has lost jobs. Every major GOP candidate has talked about jobs much more than they have talked about gays or immigration. Immigration is a problem and it affects jobs in Georgia, but you probably buy into “they are only doing jobs that we won’t do” crap. Once the primary and runoff are over, I doubt you will hear much more about sexuality from the GOP nominee.

        Have you seen the census results already? That last time I checked, we are getting another congressman and an outside chance at two. Georgia’s growing, but I guess the only way your candidate can win is if you keep telling everyone how bad Georgia is.

        • At times like these, I miss Lewis Grizzard. He used to respond to these Georgia bashers who for some reason continue to live here, with a good ole one liner that said it all: “Delta is ready when you are.”

          • Progressive Dem says:

            Don’t mistake an attack on ignornace and Republican government as an attack on Georgia.

      • mountainpass says:

        Progressive Dem said, “People are laughing at preachers who want guns in their churches,..”
        I just wanted to point out that only 6 states ban guns at places of worship and 5 others have some restrictions. The main problem I have with the church ban, is that the state is telling a church what it cannot do on chuch property. That is not freedom of religion.

        • Progressive Dem says:

          Can churches sell alcohol? Must they build to a fire code? Must they have minimum parking? Are they required to have indoor plumbing and electricity? We already place restrictions and regulate churches.

          Now, if you want to start worshiping guns as a religious symbol, that’s another story.

          • mountainpass says:

            Progressive Dem said, “Can churches sell alcohol? Must they build to a fire code? Must they have minimum parking? Are they required to have indoor plumbing and electricity? We already place restrictions and regulate churches.”

            Selling alcohol on Sunday isn’t allowed…keep up.
            Resrictions and regulations are not the same as an outright ban on a right (Supreme Court said as much in the McDonald vs. Chicago ruling thus making this case much stronger).

            • Progressive Dem says:

              Your initial argument was that banning firearms at a church was an infringment on “freedom of religion”. I am pointing out that government regulates churches in a variety of ways so long as the action is neutral regrarding religion. As long as guns are not a part of the relgion, government can regulate them without violating the first amendment.

              • mountainpass says:

                Your reasoning is why this case is being brought under both the 1st and 2nd amendment. Local codes are one thing we are talking about rights.

        • mountainpass says:

          Lady Thinker I have followed your postings for a long time and I’m interested in reading your posts. I haven’t always agreed with you but you seem to be at least open to logical thought. Right now the state is forcing churches to be unarmed. I have a problem with gun free zones, as these are where most mass shootings occur. Criminals don’t obey laws. Not to mention that this is a freedom of religion issue. Thirty-nine other states don’t ban firearms in church and this is a non-issue in them.

          • “I have a problem with gun free zones, as these are where most mass shootings occur.”

            I agree with your underlying sentiment that it should be the church’s decision whether or not to allow guns. However, this statement of yours kind of makes me think… when is the last time a mass shooting has occurred at a church? I can’t honestly think of the last time I’ve heard of anything like that.

            (On a separate note, is that same scenario at a catholic church a mass shooting at mass?)

            • mountainpass says:

              5 shot 1 dead. If someone in the congregation didn’t have a knife how many more would have been shot?

              “Boyd said Assam was the one who suggested the church beef up its security Sunday following the Arvada shooting, which it did. The pastor credited the security plan and the extra security for preventing further bloodshed.

              Boyd said there are 15 to 20 security people at the church. All are volunteers but the only ones armed are those who are licensed to carry weapons.

              The security guards are members of the church who are screened and not “mercenaries that we hire to walk around our campus to provide security,” Boyd said.”

              Ms. Assam, was a ccw holder working as a volunteer security guard(this is not allowed in Georgia churches).

            • mountainpass says:

              My reply has disappeared. It included links to news stories, maybe that is why.
              Anyway the New Life Church in Colorado Springs was at the center of what could have been a mass shooting had it not been allowed(by the state of Colorado) to have ccw holders be volunteer security. Ms. Jeanne Assam was one of stopped the gunman after he shot and killed 2. He had 1000 rounds of ammo on him.
              In a gun free zone, the First Baptist Church of Maryville in Illnois last year had a gunman come in during services and shot 5, killing 2 before the parishioners could stop him.

          • Lady Thinker says:


            I do like some of Progressive Dem’s comments but after talking to my son, who is certified in and teaches NRA courses, I have researched your posts and links that you provided.

            Then I researched church shootings and I have to admit that your comments make sense also. There have been numerous church shootings, mostly husbands shooting and killing their estranged wives.

            I personally carry a Beretta 92F with trillion sites and four fifteen round clips. I believe every law abiding citizen should be able to buy and carry any weapon they choose because as you have pointed out, shootings can occur anywhere, even church. Since the police can’t be everywhere, people need to be able to take care of themselves until and if the police arrive to favorably neutralize the problem.

    • Jeff says:


      Point blank: Beer/Alcohol on Sunday == more money in the bank for local/state govt.

      In a time of severe recession, we should at a bare minimum be seriously considering it as a valid option.

      Instead, the GOP General Assembly votes for (and the GOP Governor signs) tax increases on hospitals.

        • Anonymole says:

          Because after mowing the lawn on Sunday, an ice cold beer would be nice. For the other six days of the week, I would prefer to drink something else. I would buy beer on Sunday and Sunday alone.

          • Doug Grammer says:

            And how much of your personal consumption, along with others of similar preference will move the state budget from the tax dollars on those sale?

            Eventually you will have to wake up and realize that Sunday sales is not the biggest problem in Georgia. If fine with Sunday sales, but it’s not our most pressing issue. WAKE UP!

            • Anonymole says:

              The more important question is how many tax dollars is the state missing out on, because of consumers like myself? Can we really afford to skip out on those extra funds?

              WAKE UP! This is not our state’s most pressing issue, but it is a fiscally responsible idea whose time has long since come.

            • Provocateur says:

              Trouble is, everyone’s “most pressing issue” is someone else’s “that’s not an important issue” to count.

            • Eventually your candidates will have to wake up and realize that homosexual adoptions and marriage are not the biggest problems in Georgia. Eventually your candidates will have to wake up and realize the hypocrisy of saying they’re for freedom and responsibility yet limiting a particular industry from selling a product in retail stores (while allowing it’s sales in restaurants) due to religious peoples’ convictions. It’s not our most pressing issue. WAKE UP!

        • Buzzfan says:

          Just one example?…..there would be a marginal increase solely in the instances when one has a Sunday event and has understocked (or completely forgotten to stock) for it. Those incremental sales would obviously not be made on Monday, post-event. Somebody cue up Sonny’s ‘time management’ line.

          Sonny also used (the following GA session) the idea that ‘we just need a day off’. Well, logistically, it would make the most sense to make that day off Tuesday, since the national grocer associations and consumer groups all indicate that’s the ‘slowest’ day of the week for general grocery/consumables shopping. Go ahead and move that ‘day off’ to the day the least shopping is already being done. Makes the most sense from the standpoint of convenience. Pretty logical, imo. :-Þ

        • How about this? You realize that other states allow Sunday sales, correct? Do you think Georgia citizens will continue to drive across state borders on Sunday to purchase alcohol as they currently do, or do you think they’ll purchase it here in Georgia if it were legal? Sure, it’s a marginal increase, but there are lots of little things like this that add up.

          Add to that the people who do their grocery shopping primarily on Sunday and would randomly purchase a bottle of wine or case of beer or whatever and you have two examples.

      • Doug Grammer says:

        Did you also mean: Point blank: marijuana on Sunday == more money in the bank for local/state govt.


        Point blank: people paving their own roads on Sunday == more money in the bank for local/state govt.?

        But if you insist we talk about Sunday sales, how much do you think that will improve our budget? Illegals cost us over a billion a year. Do you think Sunday sales is really so important financially it needs to be in the same thread, let alone the same post, paragraph, or sentence?

        • Doug – since you brought it up, yes… legalizing marijuana would certainly put more money in the state’s coffers. People smoke it anyways. It’s legal in a variety of places already and has only been illegal for less than 100 years, yet has been around for thousands of years. I don’t smoke it but I don’t care if Joe Blow wants to sit on his couch and smoke a joint while drinking a beer and munching on cheetos and be lazy on Sunday afternoon. Why do you care so much that he should only be able to get drunk and not high?

          As for paving one’s own roads, you sure do keep harping on that subject… I take it you live on your own road and don’t want to pave it by yourself? I don’t think any of us realistically expect paving our own roads to ever happen. Libertarians do suggest toll roads (there’s even this newfangled technology called automatic toll collection so you don’t even have to stop at a toll booth) in some instances such as the HOT lanes that’s been a hot topic with the GA DOT lately.

          I don’t realistically expect Sunday sales to improve the Georgia budget by much at all… just a very small fraction. But I do expect it to allow the free market to operate… letting businesses decide whether or not to operate on Sunday. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean every store will sell alcohol on Sunday, just as Chick-Fil-A doesn’t open on Sunday. Nobody will force them to open… we’ll just be moving towards that limited government principle the GOP is supposed to stand for.

        • ACCmoderate says:

          Doug, there were some good responses there… no need to ruin it by throwing in a logical fallacy.

          Are Sunday sales a be-all, end-all solution to the state’s budget woes. No, and nobody says that Sunday sales are the only solution.

          Are Sunday sales the biggest issue facing the state? No, and nobody says that Sunday sales are the #1 issue.

          But… as a state shouldn’t be addressing the issue as part of a wide-ranging and multi-faceted solution to our budget problems? Moreover, who says you can only deal with one issue at a time? This is as easy as passing a bill allowing Sunday sales OR passing a bill that allows counties and municipalities to vote on the issue themselves.

          • Doug Grammer says:

            Marihuana is illegal. It’s a gateway drug. Meth did not exist 100 years ago, and the vast majority of people on meth went through marijuana first. It also lasts in a persons system for more than a few hours.

            I bring up paving roads because I find it a silly part of your platform, but I could bring up your approval of session rights or that taxes are voluntary. I live on a county road where my taxes pave it for me. Your party wants to change that and I disagree.

            Sunday sales are not in the top 100% of the problems in Georgia and I am getting annoyed by the rants on that instead of talking about h0w to create more jobs and grow our economy. Your party platform devotes two whole sentences on the economy, and three on session. Why is that?

            • Sunday sales are indeed in the top 100% of the problems in Georgia… just not in the top 10%. Just because religious people go to church on Sunday doesn’t mean that a particular type of product shouldn’t be sold on that one day. It’s legal the other six days of the week. Perhaps we should outlaw driving on Sundays too, eh? After all… driving is dangerous too. I’m sorry, but you’re just going to have to start walking and riding your horse to church on Sunday. Yeah, that would go over real well.

              I’d argue with you using the Georgia GOP’s platform, but it’s not currently on your website anywhere that I can find. So I’ll resort to the 2008 GOP platform…

              “Ensuring Equal Treatment for All” — shouldn’t that read “Ensuring Equal Treatment for All Heterosexuals” ??

              “Freedom of Speech and of the Press” — you need to add – “Unless You’re An Athiest, Agnostic, Muslim, Jew Or Anything Anti-Christian”

              “Internet Gambling – Millions of Americans suffer from problem or pathological gambling that can destroy families. We support the law prohibiting gambling over the Internet.”

              While I realize that the gambling issue is one that hits close to home with you I think it’s ridiculous to tell someone that they are not allowed to access internet gambling websites to gamble using the money that they earned themselves. Especially when they can go down to the local convenience store and buy rolls of lottery tickets. Yes… rolls. I’ve seen plenty of people purchase entire rolls of lottery tickets – $1, $2, $5, $10, $20 each didn’t matter. You’re right… internet gambling bad, lotto good.

              I also think it’s absolutely ridiculous that your party believes that it’s okay for a single mother or single father to adopt a child but not a homosexual couple.

              But as you say homosexual adoptions are not in the top 100% of the problems in Georgia… are you getting annoyed at the amount of time your Gubernatorial candidates are spending on that issue yet? They’ve devoted countless hours and dollars to preventing that and Sunday sales. Perhaps you need to spend less time on Peach Pundit and more time monitoring your own party’s business. 🙂

              • Doug Grammer says:


                I’ll answer each one of the issues you bring up if you will answer why your party is more concerned about secession than the economy.

                • Show me one post on LPGeorgia’s blog about secession. One. Just because it’s recognized in the platform doesn’t mean the Libertarian Party is more concerned about it. I’ll show you a Gubernatorial candidate of the GOP who is on the primary ballot who is more concerned about secession than the LP is though if you’d like. Hint: his name rhymes with Fay Prickfairy.

                  • Doug Grammer says:

                    Someone who qualified to say he ran won’t be our nominee, even if he does have 2,300 volunteers.

                    The platform outlines what your party stands for. Candidates come and go. Your platform chooses to talk more about secession than the economy. It’s a fact. I will talk about my party’s platform if you will talk about yours.

                    • This isn’t the first time he’s run for Governor either though. I’ll have to read through that section of the platform before I can comment on it. I believe I’m stuck in meetings for the next couple of hours or so at least unless things wrap up quicker than I’m expecting. So I’ll have to get back to you later about that.

                    • Okay, I’m back for a minute. I glanced at the platform real quick. There are 3 sentences under the heading Economy and 5 sentences under the heading Secession. However, I don’t believe the Secession paragraph specifically spells out a desire for Georgia to secede from the United States.

                      If you read the paragraph carefully I’m sure you can see that there are multiple meanings within there. Such as the right of a group of individuals who do not wish to be a part of the Republican or Democratic parties to “secede” to form their own party. An individual has the right to “secede” from his employer to find work elsewhere. And yes, while the platform acknowledges that there should be (now pay close attention here) a *right* to secede, that doesn’t mean that there is a *desire* to.

                      One thing you conveniently forgot when you said we talk more about secession in our platform than the economy… how do you explain the *entire page* for Section II – Economic Freedom? That to me sounds pretty darn “economy” related to me.

                    • Doug Grammer says:

                      Hi David,

                      I went out of town for the weekend and am now trying to catch up.

                      “No government at any level has the right to compel any individual or group of individuals to remain its subjects. Equally, no seceding person or group has any right to continued services or concessions from the seceded government beyond the retention of their own property. ”

                      Sounds almost verbatim the reasoning of the confederacy on why union soldiers had to leave Fort Sumpter or be fired upon.

                      Your platform has 4 sections: Individual Rights and Civil Order, Economic Freedom, Domestic Ills, and Omissions. It’s not like you have alot of other ways to organize things.

                      Secession is under part 3, social ills. While I would state it’s a social ill to even consider it, why isn’t it under civil order?

                      Under economic freedom, you sort of contradict yourselves. It‘s OK to start a union, and it‘s OK to ignore it?: “We support the right of free persons to voluntarily establish, associate in, or not associate in, labor unions. An employer should have the right to recognize, or refuse to recognize, a union as the collective bargaining agent of some, or all, of its employees. As such, we applaud the legislature for maintaining Georgia as a right to work state.”

                      Reading into them there are more silly ideas that the average person will laugh at, but I don‘t want to go into all of them today.

            • “Marihuana is illegal. It’s a gateway drug. Meth did not exist 100 years ago, and the vast majority of people on meth went through marijuana first.”

              By that same reasoning… alcohol is a gateway to drunk driving. Driving an automobile did not exist 150 years ago (or however long), and the vast majority of people who have been arrested for drunk driving drank alcohol first. I suppose we need to outlaw both alcohol and driving, correct?

              • Doug Grammer says:

                We do outlaw drink and driving when it’s done at the same time. Controlled substances, are…. controlled, I’m sorry all of the other members of your party won’t get their drugs. (No, I’m not.) Let me ask you this. If Marihuana were legal, what would be the next drug you would want to legalize?

                    • Lady Thinker says:

                      Thanks for setting me straight David. I now realize that both spellings are correct.

                      Also, I think this thread might have been written as a challange to Karen. She sure is soaring high in the polling now. I hope and pray it continues and she is in the runoff.

                      I realize Karen is not your candidate and I respect your right to choose another.

                    • Sure thing! Though it’s a shame that Icarus shut down the discussion. As he’s a moderator I respect his right to not want any more open discussion about it. I wouldn’t think too many people were coming to this thread anymore anyways besides Doug and I and maybe a few other regulars, so I didn’t see any harm in continuing the discussion. But whatever… doesn’t bother me…

                      Handel turned me off with the whole handling of the homosexual issue along with being against horse racing in Georgia. While I had mentioned that I wasn’t a supporter before, I also wasn’t completely against her either. I wasn’t supporting any candidate at that time. It was only within the last day or two that I finally made up my mind to support Johnson in the primary.

                • “We do outlaw drink and driving when it’s done at the same time. Controlled substances, are…. controlled, I’m sorry all of the other members of your party won’t get their drugs. (No, I’m not.)”

                  So why would smoking marijuana and driving be any different than drinking and driving? Turn it into a controlled substance that is taxed and quit throwing people into jail for “possession of less than 1 oz”. It’s just members of the LP that smoke marijuana. It’s Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, independents, etc. While I realize that neither you nor I smoke the stuff, I also know that if there wasn’t much of a demand for it it wouldn’t be such an issue.

                  ” Let me ask you this. If Marihuana were legal, what would be the next drug you would want to legalize?”

                  That’s a straw man argument. No different than arguing about the legalization of gay marriage and the GOP coming out and saying that next thing you know everyone’s going to want to legalize polygamy.

                  Let’s talk about this drug that isn’t much different from salvia divornum in that you can pick part of a plant, roll it up in a piece of paper and smoke it. (That is how it works right? I don’t think I’ve read anything about curing / drying or anything like that.) No processing, no chemicals, no additives. Let’s talk about this drug which when not grown for it’s THC content was something that even George Washington grew for the value of it’s fibers. Let’s talk about this plant that Thomas Jefferson grew for the value of it’s fibers. Let’s talk about the thousands of products that this plant is used to make and the jobs that it could create…

                  Rope, horse and other animal bedding, t-shirts, pants, sheets, hemp milk, oil, biodiesel, nutritional supplements (hemp seeds), concrete additives (hempcrete) to strengthen the concrete, paper, etc… need I go on?

                  Over 30 countries produce industrial hemp including Australia, Austria, Canada, China, Great Britain, France, Russia and Spain.

                  But if you feel safer with your straw man arguments, that’s fine too…

                  • “It’s just members of the LP that smoke marijuana.”

                    …really need an edit button. Should have been “It’s not just members of the LP that smoke marijuana.”

                    • Doug Grammer says:

                      So we would not see a cry for opium dens, and claims that opium dens have been around for 100’s of years, and that no one would smoke opium and drive?

                      It’s the same arguments for pot.

                    • According to the FBI, 49.8 percent of arrests in 2008 were marijuana related:


                      Drug abuse violations (table 29) shows that in that year there were 1,702,537 drug arrests. That means there were roughly 847,863 arrests that were marijuana related. If we assume that each of those arrests were an individual person that means roughly 0.25% of America was arrested that year on marijuana related charges. That sounds like a pretty high demand for that product right there. And that’s not even considering the number of people that smoke marijuana and aren’t even arrested. Imagine the tax savings from not having to expand jails and prisons. Imagine the tax income from taxing this plant instead.

                      I’m not saying there won’t be a demand for opium dens. I’m not saying people won’t smoke opium and drive any more than I’m saying people won’t smoke marijuana and drive or that people won’t drink and drive. I’m saying any form of intoxication and driving should still be illegal just as it is now. But what do you care about what someone does in their own home to relax that’s not much different and no more harmful than ciggarettes or alcohol?

                    • Doug Grammer says:

                      My question still stands: If Marihuana/marijanna were legal, what would be the next drug you would want to legalize?

                      Answers: NONE, or name of drug.

                    • “This threadjack ends now.”

                      Actually, we’re talking solutions to Georgia’s problems here. Lowest cost (not necessarily of ownership, fastest to deploy, etc. I guess we just got tired of discussing Karen Handel. Can we talk about her stance on marijuana and Sunday sales?

                    • Icarus says:

                      “I want marijuana to be legalized. Not because I care about stoners who want weed, but because I want them to have to find something else to talk about.”

                      Daniel Tosh

                      If you must continue the topic, take it to an open thread.

                    • Icarus – I looked up Daniel Tosh… you’re really quoting that guy on the marijuana issue? Wow.

                      Again – I’m not a stoner. But I would use more hemp if it was legal to grow. You know, the non-drug version of the same plant. Go smoke some hemp rope or a hemp t-shirt and let me know just how high you get…

                    • Icarus says:

                      Lighten up Francis.

                      Tosh is hysterical. He’ll be in Atlanta in October. I have my tickets.

                      As for the threadjack, it’s still a threadjack. If you don’t want to take the discussion to an open thread, then let it die.

                      Or, after the election is over, I’ll open up a thread for it.

                      But this thread already has too many comments to keep jumping mid-way thru so I can read about an issue that will probably never come to pass in GA.

          • Doug Grammer says:

            “session” should have been “secession,” twice…I don’t look over what my auto-completion typing puts out as much as I should.

        • Provocateur says:

          Doug, what is your objection to people have the liberty and FREEDOM to buy alcohol on a Sunday, EVEN if it did not result in a net gain of sales tax revenue?

          You appear to be just a mouthpiece for religious-right Republican policies, and not for liberty.

          • Doug Grammer says:

            If you paid attention, you will note that I am personally Ok with Sunday sales, I just don’t think it’s an important issue that will change peoples lives.

            You appear to be someone who doesn’t pay attention.

      • Chris says:


        Sunday Sales is not about more revenue to the state. It would be marginal at best.

        Sunday Sales is about being the laughing stock of the rest of the country. Its about be able to tell companies who want to relocate from high-tax jurisdictions that they can move here and not put up with narrow minded people using the police power of government to promote their 19th century belief system.

        • B Balz says:


          I cannot think of ONE company that I helped relocate to Georgia EVER mentioning our Blue Laws as a reason not to do business here.

          In Chicago you can buy hard liquor in a DRUG store 24/7.
          In NC and Alabama you have to goto State run ABC stores, many other States have Blue Laws that make buying the Devils Brew (Kidding) hard to do.

          Who cares? Not business.

          BTW, I like it that you cannot buy booze on Sunday. I think it is a gentle reminder to folks. I think more companies do as well.

          You don’t have to goto college to know what day it is, and on Sunday you don’t HAVE to buy booze.

          Chris, you are on a roll!

          • Provocateur says:

            ” I think it is a gentle reminder to folks”

            A gentle reminder of….what? That this state is still run by half-wits, whether they bear the “R” or a “D” beside their name?

          • “You don’t have to goto college to know what day it is, and on Sunday you don’t HAVE to buy booze.”

            You also don’t HAVE to go to church on Sunday. Let’s outlaw driving on Sundays too. You don’t HAVE to eat at restaurants. Let’s close them. You don’t HAVE to shop at Walmart. Lock those doors. You don’t HAVE to buy gas / diesel on Sundays. The stations are open on Saturday… you should have stocked up. Alcohol to many of us is just another product that sits on our shelf at home. If you don’t like alcohol, move to a dry county while the rest of us at least legalize it in our counties.

            • B Balz says:

              A gentle reminder that on one day a week the majority respects something bigger than their own reflection in the mirror. Why, on this small, yet inflammatory issue, does the minority feel they should prevail?

              Sunday sales is less important to me than being able to buy high gravity beers or wine from out of State specialty brewers or vintners.

              • Why aren’t you allowed to buy from out of state? I thought that law had been overturned? I’ve received several notifications from some of my favorite wineries (Arger Martucci & Peju for instance) saying they can ship to us now.


                “A gentle reminder that on one day a week the majority respects something bigger than their own reflection in the mirror. Why, on this small, yet inflammatory issue, does the minority feel they should prevail?”

                Why, back in the 1800’s, did slaves feel they had to prevail? After all, they were the minority, right? I am constantly reminded that the majority in this country respects something bigger than their reflection. The Christian majority has gone so far as to even change the Pledge of Allegiance to include the words “under God”. Our money has “In God We Trust” imprinted on it. Do Christians need to remind the non-believing population more than they already do that they believe in something that might not in fact even exist?

                The “minority” as you call it (though I believe over 50% of the state would support the legalization of Sunday sales) still has rights. You’re still apparently missing the key point here. A business should have a natural right to operate on any day they choose if they are allowed to operate on the other 6 days. Your (or other peoples’) belief in God, Allah, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. should not infringe upon those rights. 47 other states (from my understanding) have figured that out. Georgia still has a lesson to learn.

                • B Balz says:

                  Mr. Staples:

                  You have gone way over the line in terms of common decency. How dare you bring The Flying Spaghetti Monster into this discussion.

                  Have you no shame, man?

                  You may be correct on mail order beverages, but I thought the high grav stuff was still ‘nix-nay.’

                  Sunday sales is just not a battle I really choose to fight. I respect that some people feel strongly about the issue, though I do not, on both sides.

                  Basically, I am willing to concede my right to buy booze on Sunday as it is offensive to a good many. That’s just me.

                  Good point on a minority fighting for a just cause, but linking Sunday sales to Abolition is pretty extreme.

                  • Agreed, linking Sunday sales to abolition is extreme. But it was the first thing that came to mind in regards to a minority group that should have a certain set of rights that was denied by the majority.

                    As for the high-grav stuff (I’m assuming higher alcohol content?), I couldn’t tell ya’… I’m not a beer drinker. Liquors and wine only.

                    I don’t think there’s that many people that find Sunday sales offensive. I think it’s just the opposite. I think there’s really only a few people that find it offensive, but that those people are the most vocal from that crowd. I believe over 50% of Georgians would vote to legalize Sunday sales. Unfortunately we have a handful of legislators at the top who believe that it’s their moral obligation to prevent Georgians from voting on the issue. I’m really only asking that legislators allow local communities to decide for themselves whether Sunday sales should be legal.

                • B Balz says:

                  Actually, the “In G’d we trust” is a Judeo-Christian affirmation. If the inscription were to become “In Jesus we trust”, I’d call it a Christian affirmation and leave the Country.

          • analogkid says:


            Out of curiosity, what is Karen’s position on Sunday sales? Other than Ox and Chapman, I am unaware of the candidates’ opinions on this matter.

            • Chris says:

              I believe when I asked her or Steve, the response I got was that the issue was so far down the list of things the next Governor needed to address that she wasn’t going to go into it.

              • analogkid says:

                Interesting. In the WSB debate today, Galloway said it was the number one reader question he had received. Only Chapman and McBerry said they’d veto it if it passed the legislature.

                While sunday sales definitely is not the most pressing issue in Georgia, it is something people care about, so I think her unwillingness to take a position is a cop out.

  14. Baker says:

    You know that if Deal. Real. gets in the runoff with Mrs. Handel this kind of crap will only continue and probably get worse.

    • GOPwits says:

      Someone should help Deal ease into retirement with what’s left of his dignity.

      Georgia really doesn’t need a disgraced ethically challenged former Member of Congress with a history of bigoted remarks as the GOP nominee against Roy Barnes.

      While you can argue over the details, I’d submit that Nathan Deal would be more interested in protecting his other secret deals and those of his friends as opposed to doing what is truly best for Georgia.

      At least with Roy, you know his heart is truly in the right place.

      However, I would also say, that I feel confident that Handel will be in the runoff and emerge as the Republican nominee. Battle tested and ready for the fight against Roy.

  15. lcdawg says:

    Notwithstanding your premise that Karen may not win the runoff, I have some issues with some of arguements. I will refrain from spending the next couple hours disecting each line and simply ask; how is Karen the most qualified to govern. I am the first to admire how much she has accomplished; especially given the hurdles she had to clear to get where she is. However, place her resume next to all 3 of the other candidates and she probably comes in 4th as far with respect to qualifications to govern. Nathan has been in public service for 30+ years. He has served on the bench; served in the State Senate; and served in Congress for nearly 20 years. Eric has been in the State Senate for nearly 19 years; and despite whatever moral issues Ox may have, he has been the head of one of the states largest agencies for nearly 20 years. So, how exactly is she more qualified? While I am the first to admit that academic achievement alone does not qualify one for public office, such academic achievement in conjunction with the aforementioned public service experience furthers the seperation in qualifications.

    Lastly, you close by pointing to the President as an evidence that Georgia will turn to Roy in same manner. This is based on another false premise. The country throught the electoral college and the national popular vote may have turned towards the liberal option, but the state of Georgia did not. This state was carried by Gov Huckabee in the Republican primary and reluctantly chose Sen McCain over the liberal option you cited. Provided that we don’t select a Republican candidate for Governor that pushes Republican voters to vote for the Democratic candidate in the general election, a Republican will likely win the general election. In my humble opinion, only two of the current Republican candidates fit such description. Here’s to hoping that Deal or Johnson find a way to win this.

    • shadowmom0313 says:

      Will you please tell me what Nathan Deal did for Georgia when he was representing us? I don’t know of ONE thing. Please, please tell me. Except for being on the “10 most corrupt members of congress” list, and the ethics probe he dodged by resigning, what else did he do?

    • ACCmoderate says:

      Clinton: 43.47%
      Bush: 42.88%

      Dole: 47%
      Clinton: 45.8%

      Bush: 54.67%
      Gore: 43%

      Bush: 58%
      Kerry: 41.4%

      McCain: 52%
      Obama: 47%

      Aside from Bush’s blowout of Kerry, things are relatively close in this state. Its nowhere near being a swing state, but it’s not a lock for Republicans to win the governors race without support from independents. If the Republicans field a candidate that the “squishy middle” can’t get behind, then Roy could possibly win the election.

      If you want an indicator of the direction Georgia may be headed in, look at North Carolina. They’re a southern state that has experienced a boom in population as people moved to Charlotte and the research triangle for high-tech and banking jobs.

      Obama got most of his votes along the I-85 corridor in the metro areas that have experienced a huge boom in recent years. He got amazing turnout in Charlotte, Raleigh, and Durham… home to nearly 2/3 of the state’s population.

      As Atlanta and the metro area grow, the Democrats will have chances to make some gains. Think of it like a donut. The suburban areas like Cobb County will still be strongly Republican. But the donut hole (Atlanta itself) is going to be Democrat.

      I have a gut feeling that horrible commutes will likely start to concentrate people closer to the urban core of Atlanta where there is the availability of high-density housing as well as residential neighborhoods. This goes for incoming new residents as well as the people already fed up with sitting in traffic for two hours every morning.

      I don’t need to tell you that city-dwellers lean to the left and tend to support more public services like transportation.

      Also, keep in mind that places like Gwinnett County are now majority-minority (not good for a GOP that has a diversity problem).

      Again, Georgia isn’t a swing state. It’s a very red state. As Atlanta grows, so grow Democratic chances. I don’t think its a Republican lock in 2010 or 2012.

  16. Harry says:

    We all love the gays but that doesn’t mean we have to pander to their political agenda. We love drunks too, but that doesn’t mean we have to enable them by making booze even more available than it already is. Karen is a social and fiscal conservative. Either support her or don’t, but the last few days have confirmed that she is in fact a conservative. Doesn’t mean that anyone agrees with Karen or anybody 100% of the time, or expect 100% purity…but I’ll settle for 80%. I prefer her mainly because of her life story, but can support any except for the one with whom I just can’t get a feeling of trust and comfort.

  17. B Balz says:

    My Dad used to ask me if I was ‘busy’ when I was a kid, and believe me, it wasn’t a good thing.

    Chris, you have been very busy today….

  18. GOPwits says:

    Look, I will be honest, I was disappointed too that Handel joined in the attacks against gay people. Her own comments, or lack there of until recently, have made it all the more issue. It didn’t have to be this way though. I also thought it was rather unnecessary to attack gay people who have families or want to have a family.

    We all know gay people. Some of them are our friends. Some are even our family. I know quite a few who are happily raising a family – a very healthy loving family. What went from an educated discussion on issues has turned into a really nasty discussion about the levels of hate. I don’t like it when politicians somehow define a different level of citizenship or character assessment based on the sexual preference of a person. It seems wrong on many levels. Does that make me less of a conservative? I sure hope not. To me, it’s part of being a good Christian and trying to treat others as I would like to be treated. After all, Jesus did say hate the sin, love the sinner.

    I think the bigger problem is that our entire political system has fallen down to this type of politics. This is a perfect example of why good people do not step forward and run for political office. Most intelligent people don’t care who you are sleeping with in your bedroom – heck, that used to be what conservatives thought. Remember? The party of individual freedom and personal responsibility? Now the Republican Party is trending more toward a heavy handed mother may I nanny state mindset which is not good.

    I already cast my vote for Handel and would still do so if I hadn’t already and will still cast my vote for her in the run-off and in the General Election if she is the nominee.

    • GOPwits says:

      I should add that I will not support nor vote for Oxendine or Deal under any scenario. I think you have to stand on your principles. And personally, I think politicians who abuse their office for personal enrichment are just one of those things that, regardless of the party, should not be tolerated. I guess, under that principle, I cannot support Johnson either.

      We have to raise the bar at some level of what we tolerate as the public of these politicians, and personal enrichment and corruption needs to have a very well defined line.

      • biagio bruno says:

        wits, you have identified the elephant in the room. The entire republican party is tainted by ethics problems. And the good people involved suffer the most through guilt by association I’m sure Austin Scott is going to be hearing a lot about ethics.

        And that makes it really hard for conservative ideas get through to people, and the discussion of the important issues some have commented on just don’t get taken seriously. What can you say when a candidate says the right things, but has a history of using his office for personal gain? Oxendine’s policy plan is not bad — but no one ever mentions it because we’re all waiting for the next trip to the oscars or car crash.

        If Handel wins the nomination, it will also be a problem for her just because there will be an R next to her name, although she is the least tainted and actually has a pretty good record fighting corruption as a Fulton County Commissioner.

      • John Konop says:


        You might learn something about God if you read this.

        God Loves Sinners

        “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” —Romans 5:8

        I am saddened by the hatred that some professed “Christians” have for the unsaved. It is tragic. Yes, God hates sin and the wrath of God abides upon Christ-rejecters (John 3:36); but let us never stray from the great Biblical doctrine of God’s wondrous love for mankind, which allowed Christ to be nailed to the cross for our sins. John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Notice the words, “God so loved THE WORLD.” ……



  19. gopgal says:

    I’m confused. Will Karen not be the nominee or will she be the nominee but not beat Roy Barnes in November? When Chris went from using Karen’s first name to the pronoun you (as if this was an open letter to Handel), he lost me.

      • Biased says:

        Have a little hope, she’d win against Ox. Deal and EJ would be a little tougher, but Deal has his most corrupt politician label, while EJ lacks name recognition and raw charisma. She definitely will make it into the runoff, take some comfort in that.

  20. Tireless says:

    To those that are concerned over the perception of non-Georgians about our way of life in Georgia …. move to another state that shares your libtarded values.

    I really feel for the stupid drunks that can’t remember to buy enough beer on Saturday to get sloshed on Sunday. Oh the inhumanity of it all.

    Then there is the whining about Georgia not having enough gay adoption agencies and marriage counselors. Maybe you whiners should jump in your tricked out pink Prius, drive up to Massachusetts, get married, pick up a baby and move back to Virginia Highlands or midtown. You will find a very large community that shares your dreams and aspirations.

    Lastly, you can avoid all of those snake worshiping church goers by sleeping in on Sunday. By the lunch hour they should be off the streets. They normally spend Sunday afternoons sacrificing chickens on a grill while watching those vile NASCAR events on their rabbit-eared black and white TV’s.

    I hope this post provides a road map to happiness for those that moved to a conservative state and hate what they found. On the other hand you can google your own route to another part of the country that shares your lack of values.

    • John Konop says:


      We are facing MAJOR economic issues in our state. If your myopic few of religion takes over we will see the CDC go away with all the jobs related to one of the fastest growing industries.

      What I find most interesting about you guys is all the liberal spending and economic policies people like you support:

      1) You want government out of your life but still want Medicare and yell death panel when cuts are proposed

      2) You want laws that will destroy jobs even if it used to create life because you think a few eggs dying is murder.

      3) You want people to buy beer in another state on Sunday because it happens to be the day your religion honors Sabbath

      I could go on and on and it is your GOD given right to believe what you want. BUT PLEASE do not tell me you are a fiscal conservative that respects personal freedom. And if you fools get your way I hope you like the bread lines!

      • Chris says:

        John, I doubt folks like tireless will be given bread from the government. As we’ve seen before in history, when resources are scarce, the government gives them to its political supporters, not opponents.

        Tireless and his family will starve, and I frankly won’t shed a tear.

    • Goldwater Conservative says:

      Hey Tireless, Georgia isn’t your state anymore.

      More money is made and more tax revenue comes from Atlanta and the transplanted suburbs that your redneck country bumpkins.

      You remind me of why I can not stand “conservatives” and “republicans.” You praise America and its freedom but you seem to hate Americans and freedom.

      • Tireless says:

        LMFAO……based on your responses I can see why the repub primary is fielding two former libtards, one current libtard, one child molester, three folks under ethics investigations, one sissy that takes bribes to fly to the Oscars, one political hack that spent a decade fleecing the GA taxpayers for auto inspections, one lady that is unable to tell the truth about virtually anything, etc., etc.

        I also love your assumptions: I attend a church; I rely on government services to put bread on my table; I support spending any taxpayer dollars on socially conservative programs; I am dumb enough to be relying on medicare, social security or any other BS entitlement program in the future. It’s hysterical how you based those assumptions on my defense of Georgia’s conservative culture. If y’all are the face of the “New Republican Party”, Georgia is screwed.

        • ACCmoderate says:

          There are 10 people running in the GOP primary?

          I’m going to make another assumption… you can’t count. That or you used improper grammar and made your first paragraph misleading and confusing.

  21. Georgia Judge says:

    If we want to beat Roy we better hope its Johnson and Deal in the runoff.

    Would someone tell me what state in the Union is not in a fiscal crisis?Other states can laugh at us all they want but their citizens are coming here not vice-versa.

    • John Konop says:

      Now back to the real world! Georgia is running above the national average on people out of work. As I said you guys are not fiscal conservatives!

      Ga. jobless rate drops to 10% as discouraged workers give up search

      Georgia’s unemployment rate dropped slightly to 10 percent in June as thousands of discouraged workers gave up their search after months of failing to find jobs, the state labor department said Thursday.

      “Georgia’s job market is showing signs of renewed deterioration,” state Labor Commissioner Michael Thurmond said in a statement. “A sharp increase in the number of discouraged workers, rising long-term unemployment, increased new layoffs, and anemic job growth suggests that the fledgling economic recovery may be losing steam.”

      The decline in the unemployment rate from 10.1 percent in May occurred largely because Georgia’s labor force shrunk by 17,953 in June, as long-term unemployed workers lost hope for finding new jobs, the labor department said. This is the largest monthly decline since May 2001.

      The number of payroll jobs in June decreased two-tenths of a percentage point from May. And the number of jobs remains 1.3 percent less than in June 2009, the labor department said.
      In June, there were 230,000 long-term unemployed Georgians — those who have been out of work for 27 weeks or longer. This represents an increase of 117 percent from a year ago. The long-term unemployed now account for 49 percent of the 469,022 jobless workers in Georgia, the labor department said.

      A total of 64,794 laid-off workers filed initial claims for unemployment insurance benefits in June — an increase of 11.9 percent from May.

      This is the 33rd consecutive month Georgia’s jobless rate has exceeded the national unemployment rate, which is now 9.5 percent.


  22. Kellie says:

    WOW. I don’t read this site for months and decide to check in today and find Chris has written an article I totally agree with!

    I wanted Handel to be our next Gov because she wasn’t a right wing, pro-choice, anti-gay extremist but lately she has be trying to prove that she is. Why didn’t she just stand behind her past? If she had, it would have ended quickly.
    Karen Handel – you should have surrounded yourself with more women instead of men. You are trying too hard to be like all the men and that is not what we want! Being a woman set you apart. You should embrace that.

    • Provocateur says:

      Based on her statements over the past 2 months, I’d say Handel is pretty “anti-gay”…there’s no defense for her from that charge.

      • I Am Jacks Post says:

        “Karen Handel – you should have surrounded yourself with more women instead of men.”

        And she should’ve embraced honesty. That’d be a start.

    • GOPwits says:

      She should have just said, yeah, I paid money to attend one of their events – I paid money to attend a lot of groups events, but that doesn’t mean I support 100% of their positions…

      Then she should have just reminded everyone of Reagan’s old saying about someone agreeing with you 80% of the time is your ally…

      Alas, that is not what happened… Either way she’s weathering the storm fairly well and will be in the runoff and will win it… The other candidates have too much real ethical baggage to ever be trusted…

  23. birdfan says:

    I think Karen seems like a nice lady and it truly is remarkable how much momentum she has gained in the race, but I must disagree with Chris’ statement saying, “she still is the most qualified to govern”.

    I think the most qualified candidate is Eric Johnson. He has been a life long conservative that has demonstrated his leadership abilities in the Georgia Senate (as the Republican Minority Leader to the Senate President Pro Temp), as well as, in business with a successful architecture business. Eric is a small business owner and knows what it takes to create jobs.

    Once again, I think Karen is a nice lady and I thank her for serving a partial term as our Secretary of State. However, I want someone who has the ability to lead, the knowledge and understanding about how to improve Georgia, someone who has taken on Roy Barnes and won, someon who helped lead the GOP to the majority while Georgia was sending Roy home.

    We need a GOP Nominee that can help send Roy home again…Johnson has done that…and he will do it again…if GOP voters will support him

    • GOPwits says:

      One of the MANY problems with Johnson, and trust me there are many, beyond just ethics, is the fact that he chose the education issue to oppose Roy Barnes way back when.

      However, and here’s the catch, the education plan that Barnes worked to implement was pretty much carbon copy of the education plan that George W. Bush implemented in Texas.

      For political expediency, and for no other reason, Johnson opposed the plan. In fact, in 2001-02, Barnes was noted as one of the top three Governors in the entire country.

      I disagree with Barnes on more fundamental issues, but alas, I never doubt that his true best interests is in what he thinks is best for Georgia, whereas, I think Johnson, Deal, and Oxendine think more along the lines in what is in the best interests of their supporters and friends.

  24. KingWulfgar says:

    I don’t dislike Karen because she is a social conservative. I dislike Karen because she’s a lousy choice to run the state. The way she handled that interview with Doug Richards was just another example of it. She has used every state job she had as a jumping-off point for the next position and her response to a direct question about alternatives to public education was basically, “I’m a product of our public education system and I turned out fine. I think that’s where we need to focus our efforts.” Lame.

    If Karen Handel makes the top two and if she still loses, it’s because people like me feel both choices suck equally and we just don’t bother to care. The only variant is Oxendine. If it’s Handel/Oxendine, I might vote for Handel just to help keep Ox out. Maybe.

  25. TalmadgeGhost says:

    “But because she’s spent the last few weeks on the defensive over issues that only matter to narrow-minded rednecks, she’s lost the support of the middle. And as anyone whose looked at a bell curve knows, the middle is bigger than the fringe.”

    I said almost the same thing yesterday – she put herself out too far to tack back toward the middle when she really needs to and when she’s about the only GOP candidate that could.

    If the GOP leadership felt the same way you do Chris, I’d be a Republican.

    • Chris says:

      I believe the leadership does feel the same way we do Talmadge.

      The problem is, until you, and many others who think like we do, become Republicans, the narrow-minded rednecks in the fringe will continue to run the asylum.

      I believe everything the homophobic Christians[sic] say about Karen is 75% true. She may not be pro-gay agenda, but she also believes they are people who should get the same legal treatment as the rest of us.

      Because folks like you don’t vote R, don’t attend the R events, vote in the R straw polls, the fringe gets to define what R means. Political Consultants then look at what the likely R voters want, and tell their candidates to ignore what they believe and say what the likely voters want to get elected.

      • I Am Jacks Post says:

        Again, not an issue of “anti-gay,” “homophobe,” or whatever Kos buzzwords you elect to use. Forest from the trees. It’s an issue of integrity, and that’s not a “fringe” or “redneck” issue.

        Handel has a provable record of work on behalf of a particular political demo. She’s been lying about that work since 06. Her arguments are demonstrably false. It’s caught up with her.

        Chris, do you believe Matt Montgomery wrote Karen’s emails? Do you believe the check–the check she long denied ever writing–was for “sponsorship,” rather than membership?

        I don’t disagree that the actions of the ultra far right are often alarming. But that’s not the case, here–your horse has been caught fabricating history. End of story. Believe me, if Karen had lied about taxes or social security, the others would be pounding her about that too.

        Have at it, Konop.

  26. GaConservative23 says:

    I could not agree more. I am a fiscal Conservative who cares about the economy much more than social issues. I have no problem with Karen Handel actively courting the gay vote.

    That being said, she lost me the day she lied about it. Not only do I want a candidate who shares my beliefs, but I want one who is not afraid to stick to their convictions.

    • Biased says:

      Standing up for her beliefs will lose her votes in the runoff, but she might have gained some from moderate voters in the November election. Primaries focus so much on catering to the base members of their parties that they forget to acknowledge the swing voters who will put them in office. Ah well

      • Provocateur says:

        I don’t believe moderate voters like liars. And nothing will shine more clearly through than that check she wrote that someone has a copy of.

      • B Balz says:

        There is political expedience and there is honesty. Biased is right, she would have been better off honestly discussing the legitimate support of constituents. Now she alienates everyone.

        Political expedience recognizes there are relatively fewer folks that have an alternative lifestyle and vote GOP than there is everyone else. So who cares about Lincoln Logs, right? Wrong, gay folks and moderates cannot support her now.

        Honesty would be to articulate, with tact and charm, why one did what they did and let the chips fall where they may. This matter was mishandled from Day One.

        To me it speaks to how a person handles unexpected adversity. It has caused me to speak my mind on a candidate who I chose to remain quiet about. My silence was out of respect for those around here who felt that Ms. Handel was the only viable choice against Roy in November.

        She isn’t, she proved it, and I cannot remain quiet on this matter any longer.

        To be an effective FEMALE top executive she must employ a wide range of ‘people skills’, including, in order: charm, tact, honesty, force, brute force. The very last skill is rarely, if ever, needed. The Governor has to get ‘buy-in’ from powerful, entrenched, bureau chieftains (mostly male). Older men that may not be really keen on the alternative lifestyle, but more importantly, value honesty more.

        Charm and tact go a long way for a woman with older gentlemen. Those attributes will garner support from subordinates that actually control things, but honesty trumps.

        This is no Gov. Richards, who could tell an opponent to go to H*** and make them glad for the opportunity. So strike charm and tact (Evidenced by mishandling multiple press opportunities) and go to honesty.

        Draw your own conclusion. That leaves force. Common sense tells anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty that a younger woman trying to strong arm and older guy is going to fail on whatever initiative she undertakes.

        In my opinion Ms. Handle would be a terrible Governor, not because she has no college degree, not because she cannot handle the press, not because she ungraciously tossed former supporters aside.

        She would not be able to get the powerful men that control State government, in all branches and sides, whose support is mandatory to go along with her.

        And so, the greatest fear of those who backed Ms. Handel, a Dem win, is now a very real possibility. Not for lack of trying, your candidate let you down.

        • analogkid says:

          This is an excellent post BB. If I were in charge (which I’m clearly not), it would be promoted to the front page.

  27. rightofcenter says:

    It was the way Karen handled (clever, huh?) that made this a bigger issue than it should have been. By denying past comments, emails, and views rather than explaining them, she allowed Deal to very cleverly question her honesty while getting her former views exposed. He has basically said “I don’t have a problem with her positions, although I have different ones, I have a problem with her denying that she ever had them.” In other words, it becomes a political two-fer. She walked into it like a rookie and instead comes across as a panderer. Poorly played.

    • KingWulfgar says:

      Exactly. Too big of a mistake to forgive, IMO, and evidence that she’s not a good candidate for the highest elected office in GA.

  28. Buzzfan says:

    Am I the only one who….when watching the attack ads and their mentions of ‘gay adoption’ and ‘domestic partner benefits’…..thinks to myself….

    “I wonder how this script would have been worded if it was being delivered by J.B. Stoner back in the ’60s-’70s?”


    • Chris says:

      His penis, however small, gives him a pass with most of these folks.

      My issue with Handel is not so much that she lied (she is a politician after all), but that she pandered to a group that she had no business pandering to, and as a result turned her back on her natural constituency.

      • B Balz says:

        What a bizarre comment. When FULCO Commissioner the LGT community was a large part of her natural constituency, generally tolerated by the rest.

        With an inspired vision she could have turned this matter into a candid discussion on priorities instead of a very public GOP embarrassment.

        • Chris says:

          You’ve got it backwards.

          “she pandered to a group that she had no business pandering to”

          Said group were the homophobes, not the LGBT community.

          • griftdrift says:

            Chris, I was speaking of the mealy mouthed who keep saying “it’s not about homosexuality, it’s about her lying about a check!”

            Well there’s another candidate who famously said “it was rape in my mind”, despite a jury acquitting on that particular charge.

            To each his own to judge which is worse.

              • Chris says:

                B Balz. I’m not arguing which is worse, lying _or_ pandering.

                I’m say that lying _to_ pander is worse. Karen is not anti-gay. She’s been forced to lie about her positions because of the homophobic element in the GOP. It has failed because the homophobes don’t believe her, and those of us who don’t care about gay issues, see her as no better on the issue that Deal or Ox.

                • B Balz says:

                  “She’s been forced to lie about her positions…” No, thank you. Nobody should lie, being forced to lie admits and concedes a gross failure to manage a situation. A governor better be able to manage unexpected situations, some may involve life or death.

                  You are suggesting that those mean GOP homophobes sunk her battleship. I suggest that my next Governor should be smart enough to have anticipated the oppo would unearth the Log Cabin ‘revelation’. Would have a plan to acknowledge and defuse the situation, early on, all polished and charming. Puns are great diffusers…

                  IMHO, categorically and without grace, tossing off the LGBT constituency took a difficult position and made it unwinnable. Largely, LGBT’s and homophobes agree it is better to be represented than ignored.

                  We’ll see, as I mentioned so many times, Ms. Handel was never my first choice.

          • Provocateur says:

            So, she’s as big a panderer now as the Ox is? Wow. Hit me with a pink pillow. Several times.

            • Chris says:

              I don’t know if I’d go _that_ far.

              Ox is a pretty big panderer. Karen pandering on one issue doesn’t put her in the same league as Ox.

  29. John Konop says:


    The irony of embracing honesty in politics, the truth is the GOP is being held hostage by a good portion of the base that pushes myopic religious views down the throat of the rest of us. And in the long run this will be the death of the GOP.

    I voted for Karen Handel today, and like many I was disappointed in her not telling the close minded that loving and respecting all is what America is all about. But I am aware of the political realties of the base. And if Karen does become the nomination (the only hope of the GOP) she may loose pandering to the gay bashing hate everyone not like them crowd.

    Many of us in the business community will not support the elimination stem cell research the best job engine in metro Atlanta. And we will vote for Barnes or not vote at all if we are left with the other candidates in the GOP against capitalism.

    Chris I understand your point but we must deal with the reality of the situation. And you know at the end Karen will make rational business like decisions as Governor.

  30. EllaPatriot says:

    What I dont understand is why the “girl power” endorsements of Karen Handel…Governor Jan Brewer and Sarah Palin. They just went down in terms of respect for me. I dont know if it is “girl power” or the fact that Karen Handel has successfully pulled the cowhide over their eyes.

    Karen is a moderate at best — why all the love from conservative women? :::shaking head:::

  31. Glen Ross says:

    This post if disappointing from Chris. Fine, you don’t like Deal and Ox’s anti-gay rhetoric. But don’t blame others for Karen Handel’s lack of strength of character to stand behind her more moderate convictions. It’s not Ox’s, Deal’s, or anyone else’s fault she changes convictions as often as she changes offices.

    • John Konop says:

      Glen Ross,

      What is conservative about denying people the rights of personal liberty in their own home? Do you think Goldwater would be welcomed in the GOP today?

      The father of the Conservative Movement

      Barry Goldwater was the American politician most often credited for sparking the resurgence of the American conservative political movement

      He was criticized in 1964 as a radical reactionary, yet he energized a conservative grass roots movement which, sixteen years later, helped to nominate and elect Ronald Reagan. However, after 1981, the influence of the Christian Right on the Republican Party so conflicted with Goldwater’s libertarian views, that he openly voiced his opposition.
      In a 1994 interview with the Washington Post the retired Senator said, “When you say ‘radical right’ today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.” He said about Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority, “I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass,” in response to Falwell’s opposition to the nomination of Sandra Day O’Connor to the Supreme Court where Falwell said, “Every good Christian should be concerned.”

      • B Balz says:


        Good points all, and your conviction to cause, fealty to candidate is admirable. We’ll see how Wednesday looks, I shall not join you in pulling the handle.

        Frankly, I just listened to a good man explain to his reasons for committing strategic default. You know, bankruptcy so that you can rebuild your 401(k). This will insure that he will not become a financial liability to his kids.

        Tell me again about fiscal responsibility in lieu of the Great Recession and why we choose to make the voting decisions we do. As far as I can see, going for the Party that you have to make the fewest excuses for at dinner makes sense to me.

        Move on over Grift, I’m coming to the River.

  32. AthensRepublican says:

    Does anyone know why Karen Handel was not at the WSB- TV Republican Governor’s candidate debate today?

  33. Monica says:

    Awesome article, you need to put in those “share” options on the blog, it’s gonna be hard work to send it out to others, but I’ll do it!

    Very dark, hopefully, very wrong as well. She’s certainly going into the runoff, I’m more concerned with sexism than anything else.. The gay thing didn’t seem to weaken her at all, as a matter of fact, as much as homophobes had tried to call everyones attention to it, she’s only been gaining in the polls… Georgia does have a large gay community, and people are wrong by assuming they’re all democrats.

    What I didn’t like about Handel and this situation is that she went on an offensive and then obviously lied at some point about her involvement. You support a group like that, thank goodness, and more power to you – but OWN UP TO IT! You can’t support them and then when it’s inconvenient – deny it. That’s my only problem with her at this point. She needed to be a woman about it. Hate that in Georgia a support for diversity is actually a bad thing and candidates try to wiggle their way out it or cover it up during elections…

  34. Provocateur says:

    Orit Sklar just unveiled her gubernatorial colors on Facebook: She is for Eric Johnson.

    Wow. A conservative, female blogger is supporting Johnson. Bet she has a lot more influence than all of the Handel supporters on this blog.

    • B Balz says:

      I have seen some interesting indicators on this, prominent politicos that are usually out of sight are supporting EJ.

  35. kolt473 says:

    give Handel chance, no different than king Roy’s making GA work, when he’s strictly pro-union. He screwed the teachers, and we still haven’t forgotten his handling of the old flag.

  36. Mark it Zero says:

    She was irritated that there were real issues to be discussed and Richards was waisting her time with this crap.


    Really? You’re writing for the interwebs, my friend. Time to step it up and proofread.

  37. Gerald says:

    Yawn. You are a typical northeastern Republican who loves gays and abortions but hates black people. Please, move back to New York or California so you can be with Rudy Giuliani, Pete Wilson and the rest of your kind. We have enough problems of our own without people like you.

    What is so loathsome about people like you is that you accuse blacks of wanting handouts, but not the whites who live off Social Security, MediCare and pork. Even the “fiscally conservative” Tea Party movement says “hands off my Social Security and MediCare!” If I have to choose between a socially liberal racist and a socially conservative racist, I pick the latter because of the high abortion rates in the black community. Then again, the high abortion rates in the black community are probably the main reason why socially liberal racist Republicans are socially liberal in the first place. Abortion + gay marriage equals fewer black babies! Whoopee!

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