Tom Graves Had A Bad Day Yesterday

Two items of note, neither favorable to the Graves for Congress campaign:

1) News broke of the Bartow County Bank suing Tom Graves and his business partner, Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers, in an attempt to settle a debt for a loan on investment property. The bank is looking for $2.25 million, and is claiming that Graves was “insolvent” at the time of the loan, as well as that he conducted a “fraudulent transfer” of the property.

Graves, it should be noted, already had a legal action against that bank, and the suit from the bank and the serious sounding charges are routine in situations where there are past due loan balances. There is nothing routine, however, when a person shares the titles of both “candidate” and “defendant”. There’s no way to spin this as good news.

2) John Linder has apparently recorded a robo-call calling Graves a liar regarding his activities campaigning with Linder for the FairTax. This one is quite a bit more curious, as it appears to be from Left Field, and there is photographic evidence and agendas/programs demonstrating that Graves has traveled to and appeared at events beyond Georgia with Linder and folks like Herman Cain in support of the Fairtax.

My gut here is that this one is quite forgetable, and some investigation as to who pushed Linder’s buttons is in order. But there’s one quote from the robo-call that will linger: Linder claims to not know who Tom Graves is. Tom Graves is supported on these pages because he helped found the 216 Group, a bastion for conservatism in the Georgia State House. He also was involved in a very public stand against former House Speaker Glenn Richardson.

For Linder to claim he doesn’t know who Graves is demonstrates that Linder has been isolated in D.C., and doing nothing to help build or reinforce the conservative movement here in Georgia. There will be no blowback to the retiring Linder over this, but Rob Woodall, Linder’s chief of staff, is running on the record of the continuation of the Linder dynasty.

Linder has demonstrated with this weird call that he is out of touch with Georgia conservatives. He’s also provided a death blow to any chance of Rob Woodall getting elected to Congress. Woodall, by assoiciation, is now officially out of touch with Georgia conservative politics.

I’ll have more to say about this later today. I appreciate the other front pagers holding back until I could get back to my computer and post this. I make no apologies for backing Tom Graves on these pages. But I also understand the importance of us posting all the relevent news on a campaign. So, for those looking to take their shots, have at it.

265 comments

      • one n done says:

        I guess the bastions of fiscal conservatism (Club for Growth) made the right choice with the true fiscal conservative, Tom “not so hot of a business record” Graves. Oh, the irony. Perhaps the Club for Growth loses some of its clout as the fiscal conservatives…because last time i checked, borrowing $2.25 million without being able to pay it back and then committing fraud so as to not have to re-pay the loan is not fiscal conservatism…but i could have my definitions of conservative and liberal mixed up

        • hannah says:

          The Club for Growth are a clever bunch. Recognizing that their real interest, to protect the revenue stream of the moneyed class, is not likely to garner much popular support, they not only hide behind a generalization (what kind of growth?) but challenge the candidates most likely to support the agenda of their clients as being insufficiently conservative.
          Conservatives are about keeping the control of money in the hands of the financial class, people who accumulate money by capturing a trickle of interest from each transaction. The original funders of the Club for Growth, Jackson Stephens and his descendants are the same people who bankrolled the Bushes, Clinton, Clark, Huckabe and Romney. They are equal opportunity funders of “opportunists” — whoever’s most likely to do their bidding. If I remember correctly, Jackson Stephens was one of the prime movers of the Augusta National Golf Club. The interest in Georgia is not a happenstance.
          Fiscal conservatives are interested in keeping finance in the hands of the gentry and the gentry relies on heritage, family connections and speculation to stay wealthy. Buying a hotel with no money is an entirely consistent enterprise. Being irresponsible with other people’s money is how the rich stay rich.
          Who handles the money is the central conflict between conservatives and government BY the people. As long as government is in the hands of conservatives, it can handle all the money it wants; “rampant (rabble) populism” is what’s to be avoided, according to Judd Gregg, the retiring Senator from New Hampshire. Can’t have the people in control of the money. Heaven forbid that those who own it actually control it.

    • GOPGrassroots says:

      Just received word that Tom outraised Lee 3:1 on the last disclosure…~$150k to ~$50k.

      It looks like purely negative, personal attack campaigns aren’t attracting any new supporters to the angry guy from Gainesville.

      Judging from how the Hawkins-Bots on here are turning themselves blue in the face trying to shovel any “dirt” they can find on Tom out there…it is clear they see the only path to electing their democrat-turned-republican to Congress is to try and destroy Tom Graves. That’s the spirit to get this nation back on track! Geeze.

    • seekingtounderstand says:

      How sad for Georgia citizens who will once again have the choice of bad or worst politicans. Hawkins is the worst thing that could happen to GA. Tom Graves looks like a bad choice also.
      I live in Hall County, you do not want Hawkins as your rep.
      SAD, SAD day for Georgia.
      Republicans should have cleaned up their own party, as an independent its scary you have so many bad ones running for office.

  1. Joshua Morris says:

    So the author of the FairTax distances himself from Graves to back Hawkins, and Graves supporters now attack him? Linder is a giant among conservatives–he’s not out of touch with them.

    This is BIG, and I don’t expect it to hurt Woodall one bit.

    • I’m no Graves supporter.

      But if Linder can claim he didn’t know who Graves was, given Graves elevated status as a Georgia Conservative speaking at national events – and Linder spoke ten minutes after him at a FairTax event – then my conclusion is that Linder either has no control of the FairTax, he’s out of touch with reality, or he is a liar.

      You tell me which one is true. After the way you and others here have represented Hawkins on this blog, I wouldn’t vote for him or Graves.

        • Lady Thinker says:

          I still don’t know what each candidate plans to do for the citizens once they are elected.

          • ByteMe says:

            My bet: they both do exactly what the Republican “Leadership” in Congress tells them to do. Neither strikes me as all that independent.

      • Joshua Morris says:

        Keep in mind that the event was almost a year ago, and Linder said he didn’t know who Graves was at that time.

      • bobspolitics says:

        He was a giant. I used to respect and admire Linder. Now he nothing more than just a puppet of Hawkins.

  2. rebelyelp says:

    If I had to guess I would say that this bank is in trouble with the FDIC and is trying to call in loans that they promised to renew. The FDIC is probably making them do it to raise capital. This is happening everywhere right now.

    If that is what is going on you can blame Obama, Congress, and the FDIC for the stupid market to market rules that is causing an unprecedented contraction of credit in our economy.

      • Like the rest of the GOP establishment that has the big banks’ back, he probably favors the “mark up all of your assets to make profits look great when it’s bonus time, mark them down to 0 when it’s bailout time” valuation method.

      • rebelyelp says:

        A common sense market approach which doesn’t value tangible assets at fire sale prices. FASB is getting there but still has a long way to go. For real estate assets a discounted cash flow approach would be much more realistic than comparable sales.

        • John Konop says:

          Rebelyelp,

          The problem is if you use rental value and or income stream the values are even lower than the fire sale price many times. And you would also have to mark down current assets against the future lower rents via market conditions.

          The reason why many have not jumped back in is because most of us do not have a good-feel for the bottom. And we have banks holding and hopping values go up before time runs out. And people with money are holding for vulture deals because unless it is a steal why risk the cash.

          Welcome to the real world! Talk to anyone doing deals and I am sure you will hear similar opinions.

          • rebelyelp says:

            The recent “fire sale prices” for many real estate assets has been close to zero, sometimes less than zero if you count the environmental and tax liabilities. But these “vulture deals” are gone…. which you would know if you were actually doing deals, or even reading trade sources or general business publication like the Business Chronicle. A discounted cash flow valuation will result in much higher valuations than will comparable sales.

            • John Konop says:

              Rebelyelp,

              Not true at all. Most of the real-estate that is going cheap is abandon property with major issues. If you can show me all the great deals you are talking about, call me because I will buy all of it.

  3. Mozart says:

    “He’s also provided a death blow to any chance of Rob Woodall getting elected to Congress. Woodall, by assoiciation, is now officially out of touch with Georgia conservative politics.”

    Not that making sure a D.C. insider is not elected to Congress is a bad thing…

  4. MaryAnderson says:

    How many people have to sue Tom Graves for people to get the message! TOM GRAVES IS A CRIMINAL. I work too hard for this guy to spend my tax dollars paying for bad business deals. A person like this seeks public office for financial gain and abuses their power and influence to cover their crime.

  5. Progressive Dem says:

    Yesterday, Tom Graves had his pants pulled down and was spanked on Main Street. I think it was more than just “a bad day” for him.

    It’s humiliating for everyone, and more bad news for the Republican brand in Georgia. By all means blame a retiring Congressman, take retribution on his protege and eat some more of your own.

    Once again, here is the money shot: The bank is looking for $2.25 million, and is claiming that Graves was “insolvent” at the time of the loan, as well as that he conducted a “fraudulent transfer” of the property.

    • Mozart says:

      If the bank is claiming he was insolvent at the time of the loan, what does that say about the due diligence of the bank?

      • ByteMe says:

        You think having two legislators — one of whom has a lot of pull with state banking regulations — on the loan might have had something to do with allowing the loan? You think that maybe Graves lied during the loan process?

        I do. Another “conservative” shows his true colors.

  6. reaganrev4 says:

    How can anyone not know who Tom Graves is? He is after all the chosen one.
    And this robocall is in reference to Graves stump speech where he says “i am the only candidate in this race that has traveled the country preaching the fairtax with john linder, hermain caine, and Joe the Plumber”. I would assume Linder heard of this and would be a better judge of whether this is a lie or not. And as you heard in the robocall Linder said he spoke to Graves on the phone about this issue and still felt a statement was in order. So i dont know how you can spin that to anything but Linder didnt like what Tom said to him on the phone. Linder felt so strongly about this he involved himself in a race he never intended to because he then knew that Graves wasnt being truthful and using his name in doing so. And going to Missouri once is much different than “traveling the country” as Tom puts it.

    And Ic, it might be a stretch trying to get people to believe that FRAUDulent transfer of property is routine. Fraud is routine? Maybe amongst politicians in D.C. If you still can support and vote for Tom then you are voting for the status quo in Washington and deserve congressman like this. There is no way that FRAUDulent transfer of anything is ever routine, unless you are a crook…end of story…
    I do, however, commend you for doing the right thing and making a post on this for what its worth

  7. Looks like a good smear campaign at work. Probably will be as effective as the first one….

    Funny thing. Back in ’06 had an opportunity to go to DC with a group of Republican friends. We were there for a few days and met with quite a number of notable Republican people. The last day, myself and a friend went to Capitol Hill to knock on the doors of our Republican delegation. Was greeted warmly by Gingery, Price and Westmoreland. In fact, that invited us into their office. They were genuinely excited to see some Georgians. We even got a chance to meet the infamous Cynthia McKinney. Even she was elated to see some Georgians. She didn’t disappoint us. She was Cynthia McKinney, ever the conspiratorial although she was warm and gracious and invited us into her office too.

    When we made it to the congressman’s office this thread mentioned, we were taken back with the cold shoulder snide treatment of his staff. I’m a nobody, but the person I was with visiting wasn’t. We walked away with some great photos and memories to talk about for years. The one that stands out is the contrast with McKinney and Linder’s office…. One was one we laughed and scoffed at while the other was one we held in high regard…. Robo call away congressman. Certainly doesn’t hit high in my book.

  8. reaganrev4 says:

    FRAUDULENT transfer!…are you guys not wanting to understand what that means? Just because Graves says this is smear politics doesnt make it so, Hawkins did nothing to make Graves FRAUDULENTLY transfer funds. When i checked the story, Hawkins has nothing to do with this bank suing Graves for his FRAUDULENT transfer of funds…i feel like I’m on crazy pills…$2.25 MILLION! And you are trying to justify putting him in charge of a bigger purse in D.C?

    • If you read the pleading, they are alleging a fraudulent conveyance of title. Not a fraudulent transfer of funds.

      Even the AJC article says: “The bank also claims Graves initiated a “fraudulent transfer” of property in order to frustrate the bank’s efforts to pursue the debt.”

      You may be on crazy pills if you read that as fraudulent transfer of funds.

      • ByteMe says:

        Correct, it’s the transfer of assets that might have been used to repay the loan in an effort to defraud the bank of its potential claim on the assets.

        Not something done by accident.

        • You are absolutely right Byte. I’m not defending Graves or the bank here, but this is just a pleading and things are often more complicated than what is in a pleading. That’s why we have trials.

          One thing is for sure, no matter the outcome of this case – this is bad for Graves.

          • ByteMe says:

            I didn’t think you were defending him. I was just adding some clarifying text to what you wrote.

            Yes, this doesn’t look good if there’s a monster loan out there that he took and then claims he can’t pay off and then transferred assets to another entity he semi-controls to frustrate the bank from collecting on the loan. There’s really no good way to spin that. But some people here will certainly try.

            • 9thDistrict says:

              Exactly. As alluded to above, the Bartow County bank is now under a FDIC consent order. Due to the overwhelming declared bankruptcies in GA, this could likely be their next stop.

              So, what will happen, a larger bank will take on their deposits in a FDIC assisted transaction where the FDIC is now on the hook for their defaulted loans. Translation = increased taxes.

              Not to mention the administrative costs of legal proceedings in an effort to claim seniority over the purported collateral transfer.

              • hannah says:

                No, the FDIC is funded by the financial industry. If there is a temporary shortage of funds, they will borrow from the Treasury, just like Goldman Sachs, and pay it back. The reason the FDIC is resisted, as is the newly proposed regulator of investment banks, is because the regulation consists of a pot of money into which the regulated have to contribute funds, which are then unavailable for speculative investment (gambling). It’s the same issue that was in play in the Social Security privatization agenda — how to get more money into the hands of the financial class for them to play with and siphon off a stream of interest. The old fashioned way of “making money” is by somebody else “working” and the financial class (insurers, bankers, brokers, bond sellers) collecting their share as “interest.”
                The assumption behind the argument that the agents of government aren’t needed to “protect” the financial interests of the people is simply that the people, ideally, have neither money nor financial interests. All the people can count on is being allowed to use money, briefly and at a cost.
                Think of that: our money has been monetized. It’s like putting a charge on each use of a letter of the alphabet.

      • TBarilla says:

        Well Ronald, that makes more sense then. A “fraudulent transfer of assets” is surely not enough for people to drop their support. Glad you you clear that up.

        Gimme a break.

        • A fraudulent transfer of funds is essentially stealing. Like a scheme you see on TV to steal money from a bank via the computer system. That’s a criminal matter.

          This isn’t. That is the only point I was trying to make. You can have a piece of my Kit-Kat bar, but if I was in the ninth district I wouldn’t vote for Hawkins simply because of how his supporters on here have conducted themselves on this website. To be simply stating facts, and even indicate I’m not defending Graves, and to be responded to like this is an insult. Graves has problems. Hawkins supporters are smarmy trolls apparently.

    • rebelyelp says:

      You should check the story again, but it does not allege fraudulent transfer of FUNDS. It alleges that the transfer of land from one party to another was inappropriate. If the land in question was part of the security for the loan they might have a point. They might not, too. Depends on the facts which you and I don’t know. But feel free to ignorantly speculate….

  9. debbie0040 says:

    Linder is not a giant among conservatives. His claim to fame is the he supports the Fair Tax and he is not well thought of by many conservatives. It is pretty funny watching you Hawkins people, spin, spin , spin. You would put Clinton to shame.

    I have a far more favorible opinion of Westmoreland than I do Linder.

    • one n done says:

      Debbie,
      If he is not well thought of by conservatives as you claim then why did Graves think it so important to make him and integral part of every single one of his stump speeches? Would seem it would hurt his case if what you say is true?

      And spin spin spin? For a Graves supporter to say that of someone else is laughable. Everything out of Graves mouth is spin. Toting the Jobs bill that hasnt been signed as a bill that “is the shot to the arm Georgia businesses need” when in reality it wont do a single thing is spin. Graves saying he “helped lead the way in co-authoring the toughest immigration laws in Georgia” is complete spin. Unless there is a notation on the bill where it indicates who “helped co-author” something that i dont know about it would seem Graves runs on the assumption the average voter won’t verify these things because they dont know how. Graves campaigns on soundbites and that is how we have ended up with the congressman we have. They look slick, don’t go to in depth on anything because they know the average voter won’t do their research. Granted, if you ask any consultant he/she will tell you that is how you win a campaign. And that is also how we voters end up with the status quo

    • Cicero says:

      Lets see what Conservatives think of Linder:

      ACU rating for 2008: 100, Life: 95.67

      Club for Growth 2008-2009: 100%

      National Right to Life: 100%
      Ok, seems these conservative groups do think highly of Linder.

  10. debbie0040 says:

    I would also say the Linder just destroyed his Chief of Staff’s chances at election…

  11. ByteMe says:

    Are we going to have a new name for the followers who will stick with Graves through anything? Graves-bots seems not funny enough.

    Graves Diggers?

  12. AlanR says:

    Wasn’t it the Graves people who said Mike Evans was unelectable because he had a problem with a loan?

    And if Graves is in the motel business, why doesn’t he ever mention it outside of court filings? Nothing wrong with being in the motel business, yet it never appears anywhere in his campaign material.

  13. MaryAnderson says:

    That’s because he calls himself a developer. He is no developer. He runs motels. As an architect myself who is going back to school to get my MBA in order to become a developer, I find this very frustrating.

    • AlanR says:

      Do you know anything that he has developed? Serious question. I’ve been trying to figure out just what he does for a living for months — that’s why the motel seems so interesting. I don’t think he’s developed anything.

      With all the carrying on about Club for Growth and business just what has Tom Graves done to be called a businessman?

  14. sethweathers says:

    WOAH WOAH GUYS. Everyone seems to be jumping to conclusions. Linder said he didn’t know who Graves was at the Columbia, MO FairTax rally that they both spoke at. That was about a year ago.

    Let’s remember, Tom did not have near the name ID that he does today and was just another of the many state representatives at the state capitol. I don’t think its a requirement for Linder to know every single state rep in the state of Georgia for him to be representing the people of the 7th District in the US Congress.

    Graves has been stating that he “traveled the COUNTRY” with Linder speaking for the FairTax. Simply not true. Showing up at one event in MO that Linder was at and making that claim is simply a lie. You cannot forget that you didn’t happen to travel around the country with a Congressman.

    You may notice on Tom’s page ( http://gravesforcongress.org/pages/49/all-the-proof ) that he has removed the statement that he actually traveled “WITH LINDER” that was just put on the page yesterday. Why would he remove that? I don’t assume they realize people can take screen shots?

    Tom then posts ON his facebook page in response to someone: “but the facts are on our side. It’s just so sad that the Hawkins campaign would abuse a forgetful man like that.” To call Linder a “forgetful man” is disrespectful and also proves he doesn’t know John at all.

    OH, AND BY THE WAY, GRAVES DELETED THAT FROM HIS FACEBOOK ACCOUNT AS WELL. (Must have forgotten about screen shots again).

    I have not had a dog in this race. Everything I HAD seen from Tom for the most part, I liked. But this is really concerning. The facts are there that Graves did not travel around the country with Linder. It’s hardly a topic for debate nor did he travel ANYWHERE WITH Linder. I’m just baffled that they would make these statements. Makes no sense and he loses a lot of credibility.

    FACT: Graves did NOT travel the country speaking about the FairTax.

    FACT: Graves has never traveled ANYWHERE with Linder.

    If you choose to ignore that you are just blindly standing up for something that is simply not true. Graves doesn’t even attempt to claim that he’s been anywhere other than MO for the FairTax. Doesn’t sound like traveling the country to me.

    I’m tired of the BS.

    (looking forward to the bombs launched my way. :) keep in mind, everything I have said can be backed up with facts and up until now have never had a negative word to say about Tom.)

    • MaryAnderson says:

      Thank you for an excellent and intelligent point. There aren’t many of those here.

    • Bobby Butterworth says:

      Dude… Seth… looks like its there to me! Don’t be a pick-a-parter. If you go on a trip with someone, you don’t forget about it. If you do, you are then by definition “a forgetful man.” It is pretty disappointing that RounDtree would mislead Linder like this and get him to do a robo that doesn’t even make much sense. He contradicts himself in the message saying Graves wasn’t there and then saying when he was there he didn’t know who he was!

      This is what appears on Graves’ website:
      “NOT TRUE. Tom was in fact there, along with many other FairTax supporters. In fact Tom TRAVELED WITH John Linder, Herman Cain, and Neal Boortz!”
      http://gravesforcongress.org/pages/49/all-the-proof

      • one n done says:

        Re listen to the robo call bobby. He said Tom was there in MO but wasnt with him, and obviously wasnt duped because Linder had a conversation with Tom about it and THEN decided to do the robo call. Linder spoke directly to Tom about the issue and then decided enough was enough with the crook and he wanted to set the record straight. Yes, Tom was in MO, Linder was making thing point about him traveling around the country with Linder talking about the fair tax. Not true. Had he said “I spoke in MO with Linder, Caine, Boortz in 2009 on the FairTax” that would have been a true statement. But he didn’t and continued to mislead the voters by saying he “traveled around America with John Linder speaking about the FairTax”. Try and make it easier for yourself to sleep at night all you want but the fact of the matter is Linder spoke to Tom about this issue before he did anything and THEN felt obligated to set the record straight. Linder gave Tom the opportunity to do that on the phone but he obviously decided to keep lying, so he left Linder with no choice – I wouldnt want to be in a liars stump speech either

      • Mozart says:

        Frankly, I’m surprised Rountree didn’t get DA Porter or Sheriff Conway to sic on Tom Graves.

    • sethweathers says:

      @Bobby Butterworth – Now it’s getting really funny. I don’t think you guys are getting what a screen shot is? The Graves site said that he traveled “with Linder” then was removed. After my post here, it now says “In fact Tom TRAVELED WITH John Linder” and in bold text this time to make it very clear :)

      As I sit here and look at the three versions, I have to wonder why the Graves campaign can’t stick to one answer.

      And remember, I had no issue with Tom prior to all of this. All Tom had to say was “I overstated my involvement in speaking on behalf of the FairTax” and tell Linder the same when the two spoke. Instead the campaign is very busy adding statements, deleting statements, writing facebook comments, deleting facebook comments, deleting facebook users, blocking facebook users etc. Doesn’t seem like the man of the people to me…

      • dj says:

        Sethweathers,

        It’s hysterically funny…just think of all the people that buy into it???

      • appachtrail70 says:

        Tom never overstated his association with Linder. It is a fact that he travelled across the country with John, Neal, and Herman, to support the FairTax.

        Now show me these screen shots. I’m having a hard time following your post with out them.

        • sethweathers says:

          What about “all across the county with John Linder?” I think we all know what that means or implies and is simply dishonest.

          Thanks for the offer, but I’ll hold onto the screen shots for now – must be frustrating to try and cover up things and not know what I have or haven’t saved.

          By the way, did they take Tom’s car or John’s?

  15. Atticus Grinch says:

    Graves and Rogers have a company that borrows money from a Bank; they guarantee the loan; the company can’t pay the loan; they get sued. Their hire a big name Atlanta lawyer. Then, they blame the Bank — “its the Bank’s fault I can’t pay my debt.” Isn’t this the blame the victim mentality that the Graves-Rogers style Georgia GOP politicians hate? Don’t they hate it when someone does not take responsibility for their own actions? I guess its always different when you are the one in the hot seat. “See. my case has merit, I really was mistreated by the Bank” Graves and Rogers hate a lawyer (except when they need a lawyer to help them).

    • appachtrail70 says:

      Your forgetting the part where the bank improperly declared the loan in default after reneging on a promise to refinance it at more favorable terms. The bank failed to live up to a promise to convert it to an interest-only loan with a 2.5 percent interest rate.

    • hannah says:

      “personal responsibility” means that a single person, acting on his own hook, is responsible for any negative result. That’s a statement of fact. A person, acting in partnership or as part of a group, is entitled to blame someone else. That’s both a statement of fact and of approbation. Being able to blame someone else is a prime benefit of being submissive to a group.
      “personal responsibility” is a negative because it involves a need to admit being wrong or in error. And being wrong is the opposite of being right. The “religious right” is a group whose members are never wrong because they have submitted to a group that’s united by the belief in a deity. Not only are they right, but all blame for error is erased by being assigned to a deity who can do no wrong. So, even if an event seems to be a negative, it must be right because the deity ordered it.

  16. HankRearden says:

    You all need to be nice to Tom Graves. According to Icarus, Tom had a bad day yesterday.

    Tom believes in 5 things. They are his Conservative Test. You can go see it for yourself.

    http://www.gravesforcongress.org/pages/39/toms-5-way-conservative-test

    I would take special not of point 4 “Promotes personal responsibility.” You know he thinks we all need to take personal responsibility serious unless we make a contract with another person or entity to pay back money we borrow from others. I wonder if Tom cares that his backing out of paying the loan back will probably cost someone their job at that bank. I wonder how many people will loose significant funds in their retirement account if that bank goes under? I wonder how many people could have received loans they did not qualify for if their friend would have been Chip Rogers our faithful Majority Leader and member of Banking and Financial Institutions? I wonder lots of things?

    • one n done says:

      I do as well Hank. I wonder how someone can say they have principles of any kind and still support Tom “not so ethical” Graves. I can’t help but think about the Obama zombies when reading all this. No matter how many warning came out about Obama’s extreme left associations and leanings people still blindly followed him…and now look where we are.

      I guess the followers think he will have an epiphone like the rest of our congressman when they get to D.C. News flash: If you have to lie to get there, your gonna have to lie to stay there. I can’t imagine anything scarier, a politician in D.C. who had to lie to get there is backed by CFG’s deep pockets…the possibilities are endless for more fraudulent practices

  17. Jane says:

    I hear a lot of what sounds like buyers remorse. Even if Tom wins the special, he is dead meat in the regular primary a few weeks away.

  18. RoyalTenenbaum says:

    Here’s the real irony no one is commenting on:
    Graves and his ilk are some lawyer and lawsuit hatin’ jokers. So lets look at the “complicated questions of law and fact” presented here:
    1. He guaranteed the repayment of $2.25 million to Bartow County Bank;
    2. He can’t or won’t pay it back. So what does this bastion of tort reform and personal responsibility do? He hires a lawyer and sues the bank!!!!!!
    Haters of lawyers and “frivolous lawsuits”, they don’t get any more frivolous than that.

  19. dj says:

    Icarus,

    Also, why don’t we Linger a little Longer at Lake Oconee…why don’t you post something about that?

  20. debbie0040 says:

    You are hearing things if you think Graves supporters have changed their minds in any way.

    Hank, you remind me of Tommy S.

    • TBarilla says:

      That comment, 0040, sounds like a koolaide drinking cult follower. The same kind that followed Obama into the inferno.

      If you support this kind of candidate, with the facts as they are now shown, then I wonder how we will ever see reform in politics.

      • Mozart says:

        “Claims” in any legal pleadings are not necessarily “facts.” They are allegations, and allegations can be proven true or proven false. If proven true, then they become “facts.” If proven false, they signify that the plaintiff wasted a whole lot of money on a law firm.

  21. willow knows all says:

    My thoughts are that Tom is not as smooth as most politicians that live their lives cheating banks and us, the taxpayers. I, personally, know several politicians that have hidden property they own in corporate names with attorneys as their registered agents, renigged on their loans to banks , and filed bankruptcy personally.

    NOW, those are the smooth operators and I would imagine Lee knows of all of these tricks!!!! Mainly, because several of the people supporting him are doing this.

    • Jeremy Jones says:

      Putting assets in the name of a corporation is not an issue to me. The issue to me is if during the loan procurement, the assets were listed on a PFS, and, when it became apparent the loan would default THEN the assets were protected. If the bank made the loan with full knowledge of the assets being elsewhere, buyer beware.

      I have not kept up with the story, other than what is here. I look forward to learning more of it.

  22. dj says:

    Willow knows all,

    Politicians…you have to love them! Let’s get back to “Public Servant”…and we all know who that is!!!

  23. Mozart says:

    Who writes this for Monica Kaufmann to read? Chip Rogers is Senate Majority Leader not “Senate Minority Leader.”

    Darned illiterate media.

  24. dj says:

    Icarus,

    I’m serious about the Front Page Poster…I have concerns about your judgement, and I don’t want you to embarass Fayette County…we have a reputation to uphold! (LOL)

    • Hill Rat says:

      Yeah, come on, Icarus. Give dj front page posting privileges. What’s the worst that could happen?

  25. bobspolitics says:

    Ask your self this… Why is it that Lee Hawkins is attacking Tom on personal issues, playing gutter politics. Because Lee can not have a serious issue to issue debate. Why aren’t we talking about how to solve America’s problems. Instead were slinging mud. Come on Hawkins lets discuss the issues.

    • HankRearden says:

      Hey bobspolitics/Grave Digger, I think a great idea would be to have a real debate. Can someone set that up? And I mean a real debate where the 2 candidates go head to head and question each other.

    • ByteMe says:

      Ask yourself this: why is it that Graves Diggers were just earlier this week touting Graves’ business background and ridiculing Hawkins’ dentist background and now they’re not talking about that so much?

      Ask yourself this: what kind of business acumen do you think it takes to arrange for a $2.25 million loan and then default on it and hide your assets to keep the bank from collecting on the loan?

    • GeorgiaConservative says:

      When did Hawkins control the AJC, Gainesville Times, Accessnorthga.com and WSBTV? Gosh you folks are getting, well have always been, ridiculous!

        • GeorgiaConservative says:

          That makes sense. Hawkins staff and supporters coaxed Jim Galloway into posting it on the AJC and Lori Geary into doing a report.

          Wow. Personal respsonsibility?

          You guys don’t deny any wrong doing, your just mad that he got caught….

  26. PeachyGirl says:

    Love the idea of a real debate . . .

    Hmmmm, who would win that??? Doubt the Hawkins people would agree. I saw the guy speak at a forum once. OUCH!

  27. GOPGrassroots says:

    I remember a ton of debates when Lee’s consultants were telling him he was going to win it outright, Lee skipped them all.

    Now that he is lagging way behind, instead of getting out to talk with more voters, to try and convince them why he is better suited for Congress, he hides behind his continuous negative gutter politics.

    It is a real shame that he has stooped to this level.

    • GeorgiaConservative says:

      Justin Tomczak, why do you and your buddies aka Graves Diggers contend that Lee Hawkins controls media? Lee hasn’t even made a statement on your boy, Tom Graves, except that he hasn’t read the lawsuit. If Lee sued Tom Graves for 2.2 M then I would have raised eyebrows. Keep trying to spin it buddy.

      • willow knows all says:

        QUESTION, Georgia Conservative??

        Are you claiming that Lee knew nothing of this lawsuit until it broke on WSB?

        • one n done says:

          Hide behind gutter politics? You guys ignore the fact that Graves is business illiterate and only see the fact that the story hurt Graves as the actual problem. Hawkins didn’t make Graves do any of these sketchy things…do you really expect us to believe that Hawkins coaxed the Bartow Bank into trying to get their $2.25 million back? Someone else raised a good point…how many people had to loose their jobs as result of people doing things such as what Graves has been accused of?

          You Grave Diggers only see the fact that he got caught as the issue…please don’t bring the true conservatives down by continuing to claim you are one, your making us look worse than the other republican crooks in D.C already have. We don’t need to send another one…

          Oh ya, and I forgot to mention he is in the CFG’s pocket…even more comforting. And if you don’t think the CFG is going to expect something in return if they get him elected with half a million dollars you are kidding yourself

  28. Atticus Grinch says:

    about as sleazy as it gets ….

    http://www.ajc.com/news/9th-district-candidate-majority-537811.html

    I do find it interesting that Graves and Rogers owned and operated a flop house motel which probably catered to a large number of illegal aliens from south of the border who worked in the carpet mills and construction industry in Gordon County

    Further, from the article, I like how Rogers takes the “I sold it” defense so its not my problem. Problem is, although the place was sold, the loan wasn’t paid off .. he’s still on the guarantee. He is still very much involved in this.

    Just like Sgt. Schultz, Graves and Rogers know nothing. Wouldn’t Graves and Rogers demand more accountability from someone else, like a Democrat?

    Maybe Hawkins is just as bad. I don’t know anything about him and don’t live in the 9th. However, the duplicity and grandstanding hypocrisy of Graves and Rogers is breathtaking.

  29. Doug Grammer says:

    I may regret this, but I am going to weigh in on the subject of the law suit. I am not an attorney, but I am a mortgage broker and I have seen things like this before. Sen. Rogers claims that he is not responsible for the loan because he no longer owns interest in Tich is not a good reply. If Sen. Rogers signed a note with the bank guaranteeing the note, even if it was as part owner of Tich, then he has guaranteed the note. When he sold his portion of Tich, if he wanted to cover himself, he should have had all of Tich’s holders of liabilities, including Bartow Bank, agree to remove his name from all loans. I doubt he did that.

    There are some things I have seen posted that require more research. I have seen a claim that the bank backed out on a promise of converting the note to a 2.5% interest only note. Unless that is part of the original note that was signed by the bank, the bank is under no requirement to change the terms of the note.

    As far as the fraudulent conveyance of title goes, it’s somewhat questionable. I haven’t seen all of the details. Usually, a title company will issue title insurance to properly convey ownership and release or transfer of liens. If there was a title company involved, there may be some fault with them. Most title companies also use title insurance to protect owners from this very type of thing. A living trust is a good way to make sure that your property will be kept in your family without other people (not so close family members) coming after it. I don’t know if the motel was put up for collateral or not. If it was, and the bank was not consulted, Rep. Graves may have a problem. If it wasn’t collateral, then Rep. Graves just has a PR problem.

    The bank saying Rep. Graves is insolvent because his assets don’t meet his liabilities could be a problem for the bank. There are laws against releasing financial information about your clients, which I think still apply in a law suite. If nothing else, is the bank saying they loaned Tich more money that what the hotel is worth? If so, how smart does that make the bank look? Many hotels and apartments are judged on cash flow and occupancy rates. If those numbers presented to the bank weren’t accurate, that’s another problem.

    I’m not taking sides or making judgments. I am just pointing out a few things and my opinion (or someone else’s similar to mine) that should become available eventually. I don’t know all of the details and don’t have a final opinion on this yet.

    • AlanR says:

      Thanks. I appreciate your experience and insight. Is it possible some judgement proofing was going on and that Graves moved the land into the trust ahead of the problems? Maybe this would be legal and good business, but a little dishonest for the rest of us?

      Your comment about the valuation of the motel is interesting. Graves may have a really bad problem with his due diligence. He may not have known how to realisticly value the property when he bought it, or when he asked for the loan. Perhaps he was in over his head?

      Thanks.

      • Doug Grammer says:

        The valuation of property is usually done by an appraiser, and usually at the insistence of the lender. The lender has the right to look over the appraisal and “cut” the value if they think the appraisal has been stretched. The due diligence is more required by the lender than the borrowers. The bank makes loans as a matter of everyday business. Rep. Graves and Sen. Rogers do not.

        Looking over the complaint, I still haven’t seen where the hotel itself was collateral for the loan. If the property was transferred before legal action was initiated by the bank on calling the note, it becomes more of a lender said borrower said situation. I’m not a lawyer, but the bank it probably within it’s rights to cry foul if it appears Rep Graves it giving away assets and it looks as if he might be about to declare bankruptcy and state he doesn’t have the assets to satisfy the note. It’s a bit of legal posturing, IMO.

        • ByteMe says:

          You might be misreading what’s there.

          By reading both the claims and counter-claims you can get a good picture of what’s going on:

          – The LLCs they set up to own the property were technically insolvent, they fell behind on interest payments, the bank held out some carrots to get them to pony up the back interest — and they did — but the big carrot was the refinance agreement that’s in dispute now.

          – To refinance in this financial environment, you have to have enough assets to cover the new loan properly. That would take cash from somewhere and the LLCs were technical insolvent. Graves and Rogers didn’t like the terms and claim it’s the bank’s fault that they weren’t able to come to a refinance agreement.

          So the bank declared the loan in default and fell back on “personal guarantees” made by Rogers and Graves, which they admit they made. Personal guarantees are like unsecured loans or credit card debt. The bank has to go to court to get permission to seize assets to get their money back.

          Meanwhile, Graves “quit claimed” two pieces of property — not the hotel, which is likely owned by the LLCs — from his personal assets to a trust he and his family control. The assets were transferred with no money changing hands and Graves personally receiving no in-kind assets. This is the key to the fraud claim, since he was already having a problem with this loan at that point and was moving the asset to an entity that couldn’t be included in a personal financial dispute… and he did it without receiving anything related to the assets’ value. The bank is moving to invalidate that transfer so that it can seize the property to recover its losses.

          The thing about unsecured claims is that there’s no specific piece of property to cover it, so any owned assets could be seized if the court permits (within the confines of state law; for example, in Florida, you can’t seize someone’s primary residence, which is why OJ lives there).

          IANAL, of course, but that’s how I read what’s happening here based on the documents that have been filed in court.

          As everyone knows, I don’t have a dog in this hunt — I hate them all :) — but this situation as documented does look bad for Graves.

          • Doug Grammer says:

            I agree with the vast majority of what you said. My only difference is that if the bank said do “X” and we will offer a new note at “terms Y,” and the borrowers did “X,” and the bank did not offer “terms Y,” the bank has made an offer of contract and then broken said contract. If the bank said make your payments because it’s the right thing to do and it what you had agreed to do, that would be a different matter.

            • ByteMe says:

              That would be correct, but in the filings from both sides, no one is mentioning specific terms, just the generalized “refinance”. My guess is that no one made a specific offer, just the vague offer of “pay back interest and we’ll work out a refi agreement”, since no one is mentioning a specific offer and there’s no attached documentation related to one provided by Graves or Rogers.

              Eventually, it seems Rogers and Graves did not like — or couldn’t meet the capital requirements of — the refinance agreement provided by the bank and now want to blame it on the bank for not providing better terms.

              At least that’s how I’m reading between the lines. I’ll admit there are some facts not included in the filings, but omissions in court filings are sometimes as important as what’s included.

              • Doug Grammer says:

                Look at numbers 9 and 13 under relevant facts in the counter claim. Other than producing the actual e-mails right now, I think it sets up a good agreement that the bank didn’t do ‘Y.”

                • ByteMe says:

                  9 thru 15 are indeed relevant, inasmuch as it likely shows intent (provided they have any of this in writing, so the e-mails would be a good place to start).

                  However, the refi mentioned looks like nothing more than a 6 month bridge loan until they could get a real refi deal, since after May 2010, there still wouldn’t be enough money to pay off the loan, given that Graves and Rogers were paying the loan interest out of pocket during 2009.

                  16 is a definite curiosity. There’s more to that line item than meets the eye.

                  But that all goes to the actual loan and not the transfer, which is the basis of a part of the fraud claim. No other way to spin that one: it was a bad move on Graves’ part to turn a problem into a bigger problem.

    • Mozart says:

      You “doubt” he removed he was smart enough to remove his name from all of the loan documents? Really? Let’s wait for the facts, shall we?

      • Mozart says:

        Correction: You “doubt” Rogers was smart enough to remove his name from all of the loan documents? Really? Let’s wait for the facts, shall we?

        • Doug Grammer says:

          I meant no disrespect to Sen. Rogers. I agree we should see what the facts are before coming to a final conclusion. I am just saying that is a common mistake made by many people. Lenders rarely agree to take someone’s name off of a loan without good reason. A husband and wife may buy a car or a house. They may get divorced and the divorce decree may state that only one party will be responsible from now on, but unless the lender was involved in the case, both are still responsible for the note. The reason is that the lender used the income of both parties to decide on making the loan and they might not have granted to loan just upon the application of one party.

    • ByteMe says:

      The bank saying Rep. Graves is insolvent because his assets don’t meet his liabilities could be a problem for the bank. There are laws against releasing financial information about your clients, which I think still apply in a law suit

      If the financial information is germane to the lawsuit and the lawsuit’s filings are not closed by the judge, it’s an open records situation and not a problem for the bank. They just need to file the claims as part of the suit and then tell the media where to go find them.

      • Doug Grammer says:

        The non-payment of the loan is OK to state. Declaring Rep. Graves is insolvent could be a problem. It doesn’t matter if he is, they shouldn’t make that public. It doesn’t help their case and isn’t germane to it. Than again, I am not a lawyer.

        • ByteMe says:

          Part of the claim is that when Graves was making a personal guarantee on the promissory note he intentionally withheld knowledge that by taking on the guarantee of the note, he was technically insolvent — i.e., assets + income less than liabilities + payables — which makes his guarantee a fraud on the bank. That is most definitely a valid legal claim to make in this case.

          By making this claim, they’re probably looking to force Graves into bankruptcy proceedings, which then turns his finances over to a judge to use to pay off the bank. That’s just a guess, but it’s possible that’s where this is heading anyway if they get judgment to seize personal assets including the transferred land in question.

          • Doug Grammer says:

            If Rep. Graves withheld (or overstated) information such as income or assets on an application, then the bank has something to talk about. Lying on an application is certainly fraud, but it will be up to the lender to prove that Rep. Graves lied. Most lenders are requiring w-2’s and proof of income before making final loan decisions. They might have wanted to look at the hotel’s bank statements in this case. It’s part of the due diligence required on the lenders part.

            • ByteMe says:

              For a “personal guarantee” on that much money, the bank wants to see more than W-2’s. Assets, other accounts they control, trusts that might provide them funds, pensions, IRAs, the whole works. That’s why I think the supporting documentation for the original note will be interesting, since it’ll likely list his assets… including the ones that got transferred.

              It’s not about the hotel or its income, since those were part of the LLCs that were created. That part is likely already taken over by the bank. But assets aren’t worth what they used to be, so the bank wants the rest via the “personal guarantees” of Rogers and Graves.

              • AlanR says:

                Wow. You two put the media to complete shame. Thanks for taking the time to go over all this and explain it. I really appreciate you guys sorting it all out.

                • ByteMe says:

                  Some of what we both wrote is guesswork and opinion based on what we read and our own understanding of this type of situation… something the average reporter isn’t going to have experience with, so they can only report it, but not really do a good job interpreting or explaining it.

                  Don’t blame it on the media: they reported the story for us to discuss in the first place.

                  The other story GeorgiaConservative linked to about the motel in question is also interesting, because it described the new owner of the motel. How exactly did the interest in the motel change hands without the bank getting involved? What money changed hands and if the loans weren’t paid off, where did the money go?

                  • AlanR says:

                    It may be guesswork, but I’ve learned a lot. Your questions about the transfer of title and the resolution of the mortgage in question are key to this all.

                    I think there is another shoe, or mortgage, to fall next week. If Graves has lied about any of this, he’s done.

                    • ByteMe says:

                      It’s key only to why there’s a balance owed at all, but the part where Graves transferred personal assets to another entity under his control in order to hide them is the bigger fraud here.

                    • Doug Grammer says:

                      If they used the 2 million plus to buy the property, and the have since sold they property, why hasn’t the 2 million plus been paid back? Perhaps they are holding a private mortgage on the property. There are still many unasked and unanswered questions.

  30. willow knows all says:

    BTW, is Hawkins wife his first or second? If second, what happened to the first?

    • willow knows all says:

      Atticus

      Since you know so much about Hawkins and Graves, how about answering the above question. Also, dirty politics would be Graves bringing to life Hawkins sordid past, if my assumption is correct.

      I know my girl friends care more about commitment in relationships than financial deals.

      Waiting…

      • Atticus Grinch says:

        I know next to nothing about Hawkins. In fact, I am not in the district and I have not seen any of the media for the race other than what is on this site. I do not care for pious, self-righteous frauds, nor for politicians who have a carefully cultivated “public face” that is diametrically opposed to their “private face”. Graves may fall into that category or when all the facts of the lawsuit come out he may be nothing more than the victim of shady Bank practices. As for Hawkins, if he touts family values and has carried water for the religious right or if he has criticized others for their moral shortcomings while at the same time living a personal life that does not “walk the walk” then he would be a fraud too.

    • Doug Grammer says:

      Good link, but it’s all the court documents, SO FAR. Reading over them, if Rep. Graves and Sen. Rogers can produce the e-mails where the bank promised it would redo the note at better terms and they complied and they bank did not, this could be an easy win for Rep. Graves and Sen. Rogers. Telling the bank to produce the note is a good idea if the loan has been sold several times. In this case, I think it’s a delaying tactic, or a way not to admit that the payments were due. There are still many more questions than answers in this case. After deposition and discovery, we should have a better understanding. I predict a year to a year and a year and a half before that happens.

  31. willow knows all says:

    WHY IS EVERYONE AVOIDING MY QUESTION? MAYBE I NEED TO DO MY OWN SNOOPING. FIRST PLACE TO START WILL BE IN HALL COUNTY. MAYBE IT IS IN THE WATER THERE UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE MY ASSUMPTION WRONG??????

    • ByteMe says:

      We’re ignoring your question, because it’s a stupid one. Better that you didn’t know, huh?

    • Doug Grammer says:

      Willow,

      I don’t care if Sharon is wife number 1 or wife number 17. As far as I can tell, she’s a good woman. Go do your own research..

      • willow knows all says:

        I do know and I do care if he was a lobbyist and married and then suddenly divorced and marries a lobbyist. NO ASSUMPTION HERE.

        • ByteMe says:

          Then if that’s what you “care” about, you’re just a shallow troll who is unworthy of attention from anyone else here.

            • ByteMe says:

              That you think anything you write is making me “angry” is just further indication of your general cluelessness. You’re the one trying to make a shallow point about a candidate you don’t like and I’m calling you on how shallow you appear to be based on the points you seem to “care” about. That’s not “anger” you’re reading. It’s disdain.

                • willow knows all says:

                  Shallow?? Explain how my point or question is shallow.

                  Or better yet, answer my question instead of attacking me. Isn’t that what you claim Graves Diggers are doing?

                  Do you need me to repeat the question??

                • ByteMe says:

                  Yeah, bowers, you’re right, my bad to respond. Why engage a shallow troll? Pushing the “ignore” button.

  32. jenny says:

    Chip Rogers and Tom Graves were involved in a shady business deal? I don’t believe it. Next thing you know, someone will accuse them of being Acorn Lobbyists.

    They have great hair, they sound so believable, and they know how to call a massive tax increase a tax cut. Perfect, electable, Republicans if you ask me.

    • one n done says:

      Kind of like Obama! I keep finding so many parallels of the two. Except the great hair. And I think Obama has more dress shirts compared the one lucky blue shirt Graves has

    • Lawful Money says:

      Doug Grammer – Thank you for the very necessary qualifiers and tidbits of knowledge you’ve provided to help put some of this brew in perspective :-)

      Once again, however, this “jenny” person has further distilled this putrid brew ALMOST down to its rotting origin.

      In spite of the orgasmic thrill enjoyed by some when bantering about the spectacles of political influence, fraud, monetary malfeasance, and the public disgrace of others….including the MIS-definition & MIS-application of those to whom they wish to afford either respect or disdain – this story strikes me just a bit differently, and so I must bypass the temptation of those thrills & ask the rhetorical questions:

      Where did the really 2.25M come from anyway? Do Mr. Graves & Mr. Rogers really know? If they don’t know, why don’t they know? If they do know, why don’t they champion the audit & abolition of its source and help save us all from the enslavement they claim to be fighting when they constantly invoke the quotes of the Founders?

  33. one n done says:

    Can a Graves supporter tell me how they can support a guy that is so willing to be so loose with the truth? Are you not questioning everything he’s been telling you all along now? And to people who say this is gutter politics, I say this: POLITICS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH GRAVE FRAUDULENT TRANSFER OF PROPERTY AND HIS INSOLVENCY.
    the only thing politics had to do with it is that WSB cared to make a story about it because he is a public figure. If it were me the Bank were suing no one would have heard about it.
    And also this: If John Linder made a call praising Graves Debbie0040 would probably be singing his praises as a great conservative leader for the FairTax and so would the rest of the GraveDiggers. But he didnt, all because he called Tom to ask him about why he is mentioning him in his stump speech and Tom OBVIOUSLY answered with something that urged Linder to get involved. What do you all think he said to Linder? Apparently you all are so much smarter than all the 7th district voters that keep electing him

  34. willow knows all says:

    Don’t have to do research. Your answers confirmed what I thought. Why do you guys blast Casey and so willingly forgive Lee??

  35. jenny says:

    Um, one n done-
    I think you may be making a lot of presuppositions about candidate supporting populaces. Here’s how it works. You look at a picture of all potential candidates for a given office. You decide which one looks more like “your” guy. Then you go hear them all speak and decide which one sounds more like “your” guy. After those two hurdles, you look at campaign coffers and decide which is mostly likely to win making “your” guy even more appealing (though in some instances by equally brain dead people, having no money is actually a plus). After these foundational decisions have been made, you chose your candidate and cling to and defend him like a McDingleBerry through “thick” and “thin.” (Sorry if I made you lose your appetite with that analogy. Politics gets uncomfortably constipated with large unwieldy masses of undesirable candidates).

    So facts have no place here. Now, accusations on the other hand, are like throwing in a fresh new tennis ball to volley across the court with enthusiastic vigor keeping the fans cheering and the ticket sales going.

    • one n done says:

      So your own value system shouldn’t come into place when choosing “your” guy? I cannot vote in this race but the candidate who gets my support isn’t so hard and fast with the truth as Graves seems to be…because that leads me to wonder “what else is he stretching the truth on”? And I don’t want a guy in charge of my money that can’t even manage his own money…to the tune of $2.25 million. Luckily I don’t have that much money of my own for him to mismanage

    • Lawful Money says:

      Talk about shattering illusions….. :-)

      McDingledoughnuts aside jenny, if the facts have no place “here” – where do you suggest one go to find the place where facts rule?

      For that matter, where does a citizen/human/voter/American without much interest in “accusations”, who clings to and defends TRUTH through thick and thin, go to find their candidate after fulfilling your instructions for “how it works”?

    • Mozart says:

      Jenny,

      You’re not being fair to one n done. You’ve apparently had your own value system shattered and have become a cynical, jaded activist that is typical of the riff-raff that posts on PeachPundit.

      Let the young lad/lass continue to live in Fairyland…it’s all that is left of childhood innocence after finding out there is no Santy Claus or Easter Bunny. :-)

  36. jenny says:

    @Lawful Money

    LOL! Well, I wasn’t presenting anything worth pontificating over. I was just offering shallow sarcastic mumblings. But to be serious:

    The important thing is to hold these guys responsible on their legislative votes. HB 1055 for instance, is really damning, not to mention HB 982. At the end of the day, the person in office is only as relevant to liberty as his constituents force him to be. Most of these bozos ought to be embarrassed to show their face at church much less their local hardware store or diner–but that would be if we were doing our real job.

    Tom Graves has no business being a representative of the people for any elected office because he has perjured himself regarding his oath of office to uphold the federal Constitution and the state Constitution. He should be put on trial for impeachment by the House and removed by the Senate for the illegal legislative manipulations in HB 1055. But to be consistent, the House would have to impeach a lot more than 2/3rds their number, and the Senate would have to remove from office the same.

    :-)

  37. GOPwits says:

    I think there defense on this rings hollow. I certainly do not appreciate a sanctimonious politician preaching personal responsibility only to find out that he is scheming and dodging taking responsibility for his bad debt.

    Actions like that brought down the Republicans in Washington and we don’t need to be sending more of the same to continue the same old problems as ususal.

    If this is the new wave of leadership that Freedomworks and the Tea Parties are going to be pushing, than no thanks.

    • willow knows all says:

      HEY, it seems like to me the politicians that are getting thrown out and resigning from Washington are the ones that can’t keep their pants up, AKA Hawkins.

    • Lawful Money says:

      Respectfully GOPwits, I think you will find that the “new wave of leadership” is the very thing that itself created (NON)Freedomworks and the counterfeit “Tea Parties”.

      I’m speaking of the presumed “leadership” of these august pirate imitations, mind you, NOT the rank and file – who have been rather genuine in my experience. Although some of them may have not yet fully awakened to the subterfuge of Beck, Gingrich, Hannity, Romney, the Huckster, or O’Reilly yet – they are over their slumber & will hopefully not fall for the seductive escort back to the plantation……

      Therefore, despite some notable exceptions like Rand Paul who is likely working to re-engineer the real Tea Party back to its modern day origin in December 2007 during his father’s Presidential campaign, it should be no surprise they are infiltrated and top heavy with the same recycled hacks who have delivered the depression & moral bankruptcy we suffer with today.

      They are one and the same.

  38. jenny says:

    Mike Huckabee–I just started puking, and I haven’t even eaten yet. Never underestimate the amount of Messianic Statism that can be sold to Christian Evangelicals when properly packaged.

  39. debbie0040 says:

    The Linder robo call was an attempt to deceive voters and it is backfiring big time. It greatly harmed Linder’s crediblity. Great conservatives activists all over the ninth district are emailing friends asking them to vote for Tom. Bettye Chambers is very well respected in Hall County and statewide and she was the latest to email friends.

    FreedomWorks PAC and tea party activists endorsed and supported Rand Paul, they also worked to oust RINO Bob Bennett and other RINOs.

    Tea party win embarrasses GOP establishment
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_primary_day_after

    Tea Party Activists Defend Rand Paul Amid Civil Rights Controversy
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/21/tea-party-activists-defend-rand-paul-amid-civil-rights-controversy/

    Lee Hawkins bragged about attending “attending Vice President Biden and Gov. Purdue’s announcement of public/private stimulus development for northeast Georgia in Dawson County.” on his Twitter account. We want the type of elected official that we can count on to stand up to both the liberals and GOP leadership if they start going down the same path that they did uner W. Hawkins is not that person and Tom is.

      • debbie0040 says:

        He was helping promote attending an event that was hyping the Stimulus Money and what it was spent. Didn’t seem to care that the tax payers had been raped with that Stimulus Bill and that he should not help that bill get PR..

        • ByteMe says:

          Funny, I don’t feel raped. And I pay a lot of taxes.

          Oh, right, because the stimulus worked and business got back to normal faster than expected after a complete meltdown of the financial markets.

          Yeah, it’s a terrible thing to promote that.

          But, hey, “keep government hands off my medicare”, right? 😉

  40. one n done says:

    FRAUD…is that bad? Ya, we should definitely elect him to manage tax dollars…if he has more money to manage he’ll do it better? If you can still support Tom than you spit in the face of ethical behavior

  41. debbie0040 says:

    You know, you Hawkins people beating a dead horse yelling fraud in regard to Tom. Most voters are intelligent enought to know those are just filings or pleadings in a court action. Both sides go over board with accusations.. Quit insulting the intelligence of voters. Most voters look at the fact Senate Majority leader Chip Rogers was part of this lawsuit as well and owuld not be part of a shady deal. They also know Graves well enough to know he was not part of a shady deal either. The more you Hawkins people make a big deal of this, the more voters will be disgusted of the dirty campaigning that reminds voters of the bunch of turkeys in charge in D.C.

    Voters in the 9th strongly opposed the Stimulus Bill. The fact Hawkins attended an event whose purpose was to promote the stimulus bill does not sit well with voters in the 9th. Hawkins even bragged about attending the event with Gov. Perdue and VP Biden on his Twitter account. Voters will pay much more attention to that…

    • ByteMe says:

      You know, Debbie, you are trying to ignore inconvenient facts. Do check out the pleadings and see what Graves admits before claiming it’s just pleadings and not reality. You understand that court pleadings have to have a basis in fact, not just opinion like blogs, right?

      And I’ll bet you have absolutely no idea what “voters in the 9th” — other than your little group formed and fomented with anger — actually think. Especially those voters whose jobs were created with that little bit of public/private stimulus.

      As I’ve said, I have no dog in this hunt, but you are a die-hard supporter of Graves — a man who tried to fraudulently hide assets to keep from losing them to the bank because of his terrible business acumen — so your words trying to slam Hawkins are less than honest.

      • Romegaguy says:

        just like the voters were going to see through all of those attacks on Ralph Reed. Right debbie?

  42. debbie0040 says:

    We will see who is right one week from today now won’t we? When you guys slam Graves, you are also slamming Sen. Rogers…. I know many people in the 9th besides tea party activists. My hubby is from Forsyth County. Also, I have seen the emails that have gone out from activists in the 9th…

    Also, are you denying that Hawkins bragged about going to an event with Biden that the Obama Administration was using to promote the stimulus? Obviously, you approved of the stimulus bill.

    • ByteMe says:

      You are trying to damn by association. I — on the other hand — am very clear in the action that I believe to be fraudulent and Rogers had nothing to do with that action on the part of Graves. It was Graves’ action and his alone. The rest looks convoluted, but somehow the motel changed hands and the bank loan wasn’t paid off, and Rogers is also on the hook for that. Rogers — so far as the filings show — hasn’t tried to fraudulently hide assets from the bank like Graves did.

      I have no idea if Hawkins bragged about anything. I don’t stalk people via Twitter. I leave that to the lonely and bored.

      So you’re claiming the extent of your knowledge is people you know and not all the voters, right? Well, at least that’s a start to admitting you are not all-knowing about all voters in the 9th.

  43. Jane says:

    Bye vigorously defending Graves, the Pro-Graves forces are keeping his problems in the for front of the campaign. Without an all absolving response, Graves would be best served by letting the issue die. As for me, yes I do slow down to watch traffic accidents and political suicides.

  44. one n done says:

    Haha I just thought of something…and this is by no means an insult to the TEA party just please try and see the hilarity in this:
    Is Graves soooo Taxed Enough Already!! (TEA) that it has perhaps led him to feel like he’s also sooo In Debt Enough Already!! (DEA)? Thus he’s just gonna do whatever he can to just not pay it ($2.25M)? Just kind of funny given all this

  45. Rogers’ opponent is now calling for the Majority Leader to disclose all documents relating to the hotel deal — and suggesting the Ethics Commission may want to look into whether Rogers improperly reported his involvement in his state disclosure statements. If all of Chip’s sleezy deals come out — especially the ones out of Washington involving online gambling — he won’t be making that next big step to U.S. Congress he’s jonesing for.

    • debbie0040 says:

      They parse words in defense of the Linder phone call much like the way Clinton parsed words. ” I did not have sex with that woman”..

      • one n done says:

        debbie, this is not an attack, just a comment on how you will be remembered for your comments here when all is said and done.

        The fact of the matter is, Tom is shady, business illiterate, and with practices such as what he did with this $2.25M, private banks all over our nation are shutting down and losing jobs…simple as that. That isn’t even speculative…the Bank has not received the payment on the loan, Graves handed over ownership and the gentleman (use that term loosely, he runs a methamphetamine 6 that Tom used to run) and the loan has miraculously disappeared and still hasnt been settled, and then we find he had fraudulently transferred property to AVOID TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for his loan. He embodies everything the TEA party is supposed to despise.

        And I feel like im arguing with Eric Holder about this robo-call, Have you even heard it yet? Linder says that Tom was on the plane to MO with him, but he didnt invite him and didnt know why he was there, which led him to wonder why Tom would “parse” words and say he traveled the nation championing the FairTax with Linder. If you think going to MO and back is traveling the nation championing something (which every rational mind knows is what Graves was trying to get you to believe) than the Atlanta TEA party needs new leadership…especially if you can blindly continue to support Tom “not even close to being ethical” Graves.

        And further, is the Atlanta TEA party more important and filled with better people than the other TEA parties around GA, more specifically the 9th district? I ask because I dont see what the Atlanta TEA party has anything to do with this race and makes up for the fact no 9th district TEA parties have endorsed him, unless it thinks it has more clout than the other TEA parties in GA which I think would be against a fundamental tenant. And further, if you say so many tea party activists in the 9th support Graves why haven’t they done so? Im sure you have tried to use your ever so dictatorial ATL TEA party status to try and urge them to?

        Graves is the status quo i.e a crook…please people that can vote don’t punish the rest of the country by ignoring the writing on the wall. If this came out after Graves was in Congress it would be national news…don’t let the spin doctors fool you

  46. debbie0040 says:

    We will see how Linder’s chief of staff does in the primary. My guess is he won’t do too well.

    I keep seeing emails after emails from activists in the 9th in support of Tom. I think the Linder thing is having the reverse impact of what was expected.

    Also did you see Rep. Cantor’s endorsement of Tom?

    • Joshua Morris says:

      Big deal. Cantor’s chief strategist owns Creative Direct–the company that does Tom’s direct mail.

  47. debbie0040 says:

    Hawkins attended a rally for the Obama stimulus bill. His comments are below. In particular, “”Instead, government should be supporting projects like the North Georgia Network that provide the tools businesses need to keep employees employed and to expand their reach’

    He supports projects like the North Georgia Network that was paid for with sitmulus funds. Interestingly enough, Nathan Deal as attended and supported the projects.

    “State Sen. Lee Hawkins, R-Gainesville, who is seeking the congressional seat Deal will vacate in 2010, praised the North Georgia Network for “providing the infrastructure many businesses need to operate” and creating the possibility for new jobs in the district.

    “Government has no place in increasing bureaucracy in order to create jobs,” Hawkins said in a statement his campaign released Thursday. “Instead, government should be supporting projects like the North Georgia Network that provide the tools businesses need to keep employees employed and to expand their reach. Business should lead the private sector, not government.”

  48. one n done says:

    Debbie, please try and imagine how detrimental a blow this would be to the growing TEA party movement in this the most crucial election year of our lives:
    “This just in, the newest member of Congress and TEA party favorite, Tom Graves from the GA-9th has only been in Congress 2 weeks and is already on his way home to answer to insolvency and bank fraud charges from the Bartow County Bank for not repaying a $2.25M loan and attempting to transfer the property to a trust to keep the bank from collecting on the loan. The Oglethorpe in, known to most as the Methamphetamine 6, is a low budget extended stay motel that is under new management. You may be wondering how the deed changed hands without the loan being settled. These are details that will be discussed in the hearing this week with Congressman Tom Graves and Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers.”
    Not to mention how embarrassing to the 9th district for electing a crook – But then again Debbie, the American people have been very tolerant of behavior by elected officials like this in the past…especially the TEA party activists. I can see the Drudgereport headlines now. It should be great press for the republican party come this November, the most important mid-term elections of our lives

      • one n done says:

        Good one. A crook or someone that gets called a RINO on a blog…hardly comparable.
        If Hawkins wins:
        “Lee Hawkins pulls out a surprise come from behind victory against Tom Graves. Speculators believe it to be due to Graves’ shady business dealings with Senate Majority Leader Chip Rogers coming to light. Graves enjoyed a 12 point lead over Hawkins after the special election but once the TEA party favorite was sued for $2.25M for defaulting on a loan then transferring property into a trust so as to not have to repay the bank, his numbers plummeted. This win for Hawkins shows that Americans will not stand with the status quo any longer by electing crooks with shady business pasts.”
        So, either way this story will probably go national. I can only pray you haven’t aligedn the tea party so heavily with this crook that we don’t lose momentum. News flash Debbie: TEA partiers are anything but followers of a candidate no matter what. They want accountability on the part of their candidates and for them to show some personal responsibility. Both of which Tom has failed miserably at and it is baffling how you can’t see it. Good luck showing your face around meetings anymore when the Atlanta TEA party is a laughingstock for standing for everything the TEA party is SUPPOSED to stand against…crooks

        • debbie0040 says:

          Tom Graves is no crook and neither is Chip. Pretty desparate politics. You must know your guy is losing…

          Tea party activists do not support RINOs like Hawkins. Tea party activists do not support people that attend a rally for the stimulus bill that raped taxpayers….Obviously Hawkins supporters see no issue with that.

          • ByteMe says:

            Not a “crook” in the Nixonian sense, you mean? Just a fraud, which it appears you’re fine with. So be it.

            • one n done says:

              Ill give you Chip…sort of. But ya, Byte, she is clearly ignoring the main point of my post. The fact is the TEA party candidates are getting A LOT of national press when they win (Rand Paul). But when Rand Paul won he didnt have multi-million $ lawsuits pending. IF Graves wins this is going to be a national embarrassment on the 9th when they Nation finds out the 9th voters voted for this crook after they already knew his shady dealings. And further a reflection on the TEA party that this Debbie lady has aligned so closely with a FRAUD.

              And desperate politics? Has Tom told you that Hawkins made this all up? Hawkins had nothing to do with a single one of Tom’s shady business dealings and fraud, politics has nothing to do with it. Except for the fact that Tom is a politician and he should have been working his ass off to pay back this loan instead of trying to further his political career. Who does he really care about? What about people that had money saved in this bank? Tom obviously doesn’t care about them. Please respond like a rational human and not a kool-aid drinking Obama…I mean Graves supporter

      • Grave Diggers Rule says:

        Imagine the blow to your for profit company (ATL tea bag) if Lee Hawkins wins. The Tea Party needs no one to think they can control the group like an organization. They were doing just fine with out you.

  49. AlanR says:

    I checked the deeds for Gordon County. There has been no transfer of the Tich Hospitality warranty deed and no cancellation of the $2.25 security deed. There is also a later security deed for $55,000 that has no cancellation.

    It seems Graves and Rogers sold Tich Hospitality to someone, who took on the debt as well as the property. This is the only way they could say they don’t own it anymore without having a deed change hands. Who would pay money for a seedy motel with a really big debt?

    I think this is beginning to look like The Producers with Rogers as Max Bialystock and Graves as Leo Bloom. I certainly hope there is some sort of disclosure about what really happened before people in the district have to vote.

  50. AlanR says:

    If Doug Grammer or ByteMe are still around, I’d like to know if you guys can think of any other explanation.

    • ByteMe says:

      It sounds like the data you have is jiving with what we already knew and what we could infer. Sell/Divest their interest in the LLC but forget to pay the bank and assume the LLC would be the responsible party… but that’s not how loans with personal co-signers work and someone with business acumen — something that the GravesDiggers claim about Graves — should have known that.

      And then, of course, there’s the fraudulent transfer of Graves’ personal property that could have been used to satisfy the debt to an entity not covered by the loan….

      So far so good. Now we need to see the original loan docs to see if the personal property that was transferred was listed on the loan app as a personal asset for the sake of getting the loan.

      • dj says:

        Maybe Rogers should insist on the Ethics Investigation, that way his campaign funds could cover his attorney’s fees…

        • debbie0040 says:

          One n done , Atlanta Tea Party has members across the metro Atlanta area, including the Ninth District. In fact my in-laws live in Cumming.
          Also, tea party activists got involved in races out side their district with the Scott Brown race in Massachusetts, NY 23, Rubio in Florida and many other races. Guess you want to complain about that as well…

          The bottom line is I would have not gotten as involved as I am in defending Tom had the Hawkins campagin not run such a sleezy campaign and try to portray Hawkins as a good conservative and had his supporters attack the tea party..

          I believe the whole thing with the bank loan will end up backfiring. All the facts have not been in the press yet. More to come…

          Did you guys were Mike Pence endorsed Tom? Hawkins has the endorsement of Congressman Linder. Graves has the endorsement of Cong. Westmoreland, Cong. Eric Cantor and Cong. Mike Pence. I will take those three any day over a Linder endorsement.

          I think Linder is a good person but has listened to wrong advise from the wrong people and allowed himself to be used..

          • ByteMe says:

            I believe the whole thing with the bank loan will end up backfiring. All the facts have not been in the press yet.

            I’ll bet you said the same thing about Ralph Reed and the Indian Casinos.

            Based on what Tom has admitted so far in the filings and what the bank has included, Tom’s going to be found guilty of civil fraud if he doesn’t figure out a way to settle the case before more info is made public.

            • debbie0040 says:

              Was Ralph charged with a crime?

              I don’t believe Tom will be found guilty of anything. I don’t believe for a minute that Tom and Chip Rogers were involved with anything shady..I also don’t think all the facts have come out yet. Stay tuned to see..

              We just have a few more days to see if it did backfire…

              • ByteMe says:

                Did Ralph win? No? You think maybe voters didn’t need to see a conviction to know a charlatan when they see one?

                You’re just hoping the facts don’t come out before the runoff. That cheapens your “brand”.

                • debbie0040 says:

                  Au Contraire, I DO hope all the facts come out before the election and I mean all the facts…

                  • one n done says:

                    Conversation over…you are out of your mind. Sorry for personal attacks but I am in awe. It is voting like this that keeps putting crooks in Washington and then we are surprised when news breaks that they have done something unethical? You deserve what you get if you vote for this guy

                  • one n done says:

                    And the fact that you can “think the whole thing with the bank will backfire” is inherantly wrong thinking in itself. For something to backfire would mean that you either A: think Hawkins made this up or B: That Hawkins made Graves fraudulently transfer property and default on a MASSIVE loan.
                    You are thinking that Graves didn’t actually do anything its just all a party of some silly game and “its just politics” NOT THAT HE ACTUALLY DID IT. Thats the exact thinking and voting that got all these crooks on both sides of the aisle elected. You can just put me under the “anyone but Graves” voter section
                    For something to backfire, Hawkins would have to have done something and already be winning. You can’t go from losing to more losing so nothing can backfire, even if he were to be the one suing tom, which he isnt, The Bartow County Bank is.

              • AlanR says:

                All the facts are not out yet because Bialystock and Bloom won’t be open about the terms of the Tich Hospitality loan, and the terms of the sale of Tich Hospitality. If Bialystock and Bloom want to prove theyre caught in a smear by a greedy bank they should clear it up right away. They don’t need any cout orders or permissions to disclose.

                Debbie, if Ralph Reed were the candidate instead of Tom Graves, do you doubt he would be just as conservative in Congress? Would you be comfortable voting for Reed knowing how he created shell organizations and fake groups to attack conservates who wouldn’t support gambling legislation? Reed was never charged, but would you vote for him? Instead of Hawkins? Instead of Tarvin?

                • one n done says:

                  She’d prolly say she’d vote for Obama over Hawkins…she’s off Ralph Reeds stolen Indian Reservation if you ask me…who gave her the shovel to dig herself into this big of a Grave? Was it her politico slick candidate that has been lying to her?

                • debbie0040 says:

                  I like Tarvin and had Graves not been in the race, he would have got my support. I would never vote for Hawkins, though..

                  Just like I have said, all the facts have not come out on this yet…

                  • one n done says:

                    Has Ron Blagoyavich (sp.?) been convicted yet? No, but he is still crucified because this kind of news is sexy. Tom will be the same, if you cared about the TEA party movement and what the Republican party HAS to do this November you would be praying Tom loses.

                    Im not even a Hawkins supporter but I get enraged when I see BLIND support of candidates. You aren’t supposed to pick your guy at the beginning and stick with him no matter what, your opinions should change as you get to know candidates better…If it came out that Graves liked little boys you’d probably still support him. This kind of blind support of candidates no matter what you find out about him is how we ended up with OBAMA! (i.e. “God Damn America”, and his millions of other extremist leanings). Bottom line: Fraud like this from a TEA party candidate will hurt the momentum the TEA party has, whether you want to open your eyes or not Debs

    • Doug Grammer says:

      AlanR,

      Please feel free to contact me personally off PP. You may have done some digging that I can’t been able to do. Sorry for my almost two day absence. I went to Atlanta for the Con. Mike Pence event that was held by Fulton County GOP yesterday, spent the night, and had a very long work day today. Until I have more details, I don’t think I can shed any more light than what I have.

      As far as the business changing hands, it’s possible that there was some type of private unrecorded note where the new owner of Tich is making payments to Rep. Graves and Sen. Rogers.

      • ByteMe says:

        Even in the event that the business changed hands and there’s now an unrecorded note paying Graves and Rogers, that does not absolve either of them of the responsibility to pay off the bank loan that they personally guaranteed. That release has to come from the bank and it sure does sound like they aren’t interested in that happening on the Meth 6, does it?

        And Graves’ latest tactic of waiting several days and then wrapping himself in piousness tells me that there’s definitely more to this story that will turn out very badly for Graves. Con men distract with shell games and this feels very much like a shell game he’s playing to buy time until he gets elected.

  51. B Balz says:

    In time of our Nation’s most troubling of times, here is another ringer to put in the drivers seat. Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

    But he does have ‘lush black hair’ according to dainty Jim Galloway.

  52. one n done says:

    “I don’t believe for a minute that Tom and Chip Rogers were involved with anything shady” – Deb, you kill me!

    • B Balz says:

      @Debbie0040 I am not a pol op and would encourage you to see if y’all can get a 2.5% loan on $2MM+ from YOUR bank. See, it is not about guilty or innocent, to me, it is about the whiff of special favors, impropriety, that ANY GOP candidate has, at this time.

      After the Speaker-who-shall-not-be-named, the GOP is especially vulnerable to this sort of bad press.

      I have no horse in the race, it is not my District, it just looks bad.

      • ByteMe says:

        Looks worse when he tried to hide his assets to keep them from being seized to pay off the loan he personally guaranteed. That’s soooo OJ, y’know?

    • one n done says:

      Am i under the false impression that you don’t have to be a consultant/staff to post on this website? My mistake. Take your best shot Debbiedo…

  53. Atticus Grinch says:

    I have seen it all now:

    http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/rogers-graves-say-inn-540814.html

    So, after this story has been out there for about a week, Graves and Rogers have decided to take another spin on things: we were operating a Christian mission and providing a public service for the down-an-out. If you are a politician in a jam, it never hurts to get Jesus on your side, particularly when you are trolling for votes in the 9th District.

    While there may have been some church referrals and some low-income housing clients (for which I am sure they were adequately compensated by a federal government program that they would otherwise despise), I can assure you that the Oglethorpe Inn also housed its fair share of meth-heads, dope-head, sex offenders and illegal aliens from Mexico (they shouldn’t be here, but I will gladly take their money).

    Finally, I am still amazed by the hubris and gall that allows sophisticated businessmen to actually argue that they don’t owe the debt because they sold the Inn. Even setting aside the argument that the sale was an utter sham, does anyone believe if they sell their house they are automatically are relived of their duty to pay their mortgage. Graves and Rogers know that if the Inn were sold that either (1) the mortgage would have to be paid off in conjunction with the sale or (2) the mortgage would have to be assumed by the Buyer with a release of liability signed by the Bank. Neither occurred. This “I sold it so I don’t owe it” defense is ludicrous.

  54. Atticus Grinch says:

    From the Tom Graves Facebook Page:

    Facts vs. Attacks. Read the the AJC story below outlining the charitable missions that took place at the hotel Tom once owned. Since the facts don’t match his false, negative attacks, Lee Hawkins has now resorted to calling a minister and nonprofit agencies that help the less fortunate liars. Please forward to your friends.

    • Joshua Morris says:

      Really? So if he connects some church activities and a claim of “charitable” work done at the hotel, Graves thinks this makes it okay to not pay the mortgage and to make shady deals.

      Okay… got it.

      • one n done says:

        HAHA I’m pretty sure every scandal/fraud that has ever come out about a politician has taken the I’m Christian I do no wrong turn…didn’t Foley even try and use the Christian defense? He proves even more so to be the status quo…pathetic

        • B Balz says:

          Finding one’s way, through the Lord, leads to the path of redemption. It can also buy you votes.

          • Romegaguy says:

            I’m sure the massage parlors in Macon do some charitable work from time to time and maybe even help some ministers out, too

    • Joshua Morris says:

      Oooh, I especially like this part of the story:

      “Officials from the Gordon County school system and the Tallatoona Community Action Partnership said they have spent federal taxpayer funds on rent for needy families to stay at the inn. The partnership spent its federal stimulus funds on rent there this year, while the school system spent federal grant funds at the inn last fall, officials said.”

      That is SO conservative of Tom to accept federal stimulus funds and grant money as he did his charity and church work in the hotel he wouldn’t pay for. What an example to all of us.

        • Joshua Morris says:

          You really like telling people what they think these days, don’t you? I’m pretty good at expressing my concerns for myself, and you know what you said isn’t even close.

          • Icarus says:

            No, I like screwing with people who pull for the homeboy without any consistent logic.

            Worst campaign ever. (or at least this cycle. Lee didn’t claim he was coming to Dalton and bringing Hell with him, so there’s hope.)

            Hawkins has been on all sides on every issue this campaign. He was for stimulus funds before he was against them. He was for PAC money before he was getting beaten by it. He was the invincible “conservative republican” before he had to become the “everyone from Hall County can vote for me to save us from the western district hicks” candidate.

            Pick which Hawkins you want, he’s been all things to all people during this election.

            Except in first place.

            • Joshua Morris says:

              You know better than that, Ic. I’ve been debating this race on principle all along.

              I know Lee, and you obviously don’t. He’s a genuine conservative who tells the truth. He didn’t wait until his 7th year under the Dome to do something. He didn’t cave to pressure from moderates to get a bill passed so that he could have a misleading campaign line. He hasn’t built a campaign on his celebrity status among some groups whose leadership think they’re conservative but can be easily wooed with slick talk. He doesn’t have a shady business background.

              Lee is working hard for support in his hometown, as well as the rest of the district. You shouldn’t speak so disrespectfully of people in the western part of the district. No one in the Hawkins campaign has made characterizations like that. In fact, didn’t Tom come over and set up his first headquarters in Forsyth County? Isn’t he having his election night party at Big Canoe? Why not somewhere in his hometown? Does Tom feel the way you mentioned about the people in the west end of the district?

              Where’s your “consistent logic”?

      • ByteMe says:

        Joshua, I was also thinking about that and wondering if the GravesDiggers would mention how charitable he was to accept Federal stimulus money for his own personal project — a similar thing to the charge they like to accuse Hawkins of by being nearby when VP Biden came to provide stimulus funds to a local company.

        Hypocrites for not slamming Graves over it? Yup.

        Where’s Debbie to defend Graves’ PERSONAL acceptance of stimulus funds?

        On the other hand, you weren’t the right person to bring it up, because you are definitely a HawkinsHomer™. :)

  55. dj says:

    Atticus Grinch,

    Who would invest in a methouse 6…seriously….I know…Tom Graves…wait a minute…he’s very religious…it couldn’t be him…I am sure he had no idea who patronized the facility…or maybe he did…and wanted to distance himself from the debt…and the use…not necessiarilly in that order…or maybe in that order…

  56. GOPGrassroots says:

    You guys crack me up…shoveling all this mud will not earn Lee Hawkins one vote on Tuesday. The mud strategy failed miserably on 5/11th and it will be rejected again next week.

    Tom Graves is going to trounce Lee on Tuesday and you guys will have to find a new outlet for your rage at all things Graves and all things Conservative.

    Lighten up folks, this will all be over soon for you.

  57. one n done says:

    I’m pretty sure it is the AJC not the Hawkins campaign “slinging truth” so you might want to try censoring the press. Another blind follower…if he was getting sued and wasn’t running for congress who would Tom blame then? And imagine if Hawkins was a crook, which from what I’ve seen he isnt, don’t you think Tom would say something like “As a strong Christian I believe the truth on Mr. Hawkins should be told, I can’t believe he would be so irresponsible with other peoples Jobs and call himself a conservative by stealing from members of a bank who have their own saved money at stake”.

    GOPnotsoconservative, you may be right about Graves winning, that doesn’t make it right, it just means that every “progression” that the republican party was hoping to make in the November election will be negated when everyone finds out North Georgia is still electing the same ol’ crooks that keep getting sent to D.C. and that the Atlanta TEA party supported it. At least Tom can follow in Deal’s footsteps…as unethical of course

    • one n done says:

      *correction* that was directed at GOPgrassroots, i had scrolled down so far and figured that GOPconservative was everyones name on PP

      • debbie0040 says:

        Very interesting you claim the Hawkins campaign was not involved with mud slinging.

        Are you denying the facts in the following link?

        http://gravesforcongress.org/pages/51/there-you-go-again

        On April 23, 2010, a snooping Rick Farr made an open records request for documents related to Tom Graves’ businesses. Farr is a business associate of Hawkins’ advisor and largest contributor Tommy Sandoval who also ran Hawkins’ campaign for State Senate. Sandoval and his wife have contributed $16,532.00 to the Hawkins Congressional Campaign (as of 3/31/10 FEC Report).

    • debbie0040 says:

      One, Tom Graves is no crook. Are you also calling the Georgia Senate Majority Leader a crook? Atlanta Tea Party supported the strong conservative in the race that we felt had the best chance of winning. Tom has been involved with Atlanta Tea Party since 2-27-2009 and we did talk to our activists in the 9th and others before the endorsement was made. One or two people did not make the decision to endorse Tom. Did you actually think we would support Hawkins? I can tell you that had Tom not been in the race, Tarvin would more than likely received the endorsement.

      Thye bottom line the days are over when we support candidates because they are the lesser of the evils and have a R by their name. If you don’t give us a conservative to vote for, then you won’t get our vote. NY 23 proved that..

  58. Atticus Grinch says:

    I think that Graves and Rogers need to change lawyers and hire someone who will properly represent them. Although Simon Bloom is a well respected “Superlawyer” he has somehow over looked some keys defenses in this case, based upon the public statements of Graves and Rogers. I have read his answer and his counterclaim filed back against Bartow County Bank and NOT ONE TIME does he state that Graves and Rogers don’t owe the Bank because they have sold the business. Almost as bad, NOT ONE TIME does he state that Graves and Rogers don’t owe the Bank because they rented some rooms to a Church and some community organizations. Finally, NOT ONE TIME does he state that Graves and Rogers don’t owe the Bank because the Bank is under a FDIC Consent Order and obviously has some problems.

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