Return Of FairTax! Friday

For a while, we had a customary open thread on Fridays where we allowed an open thread to discuss the non-state issue of the FairTax! (I’m sure it comes as a surprise to supporters of John Oxendine, Maria Sheffield, and others that the FairTax! isn’t a state issue, but please don’t wake them while they’re sleepwalking. It may be dangerous.)

I’m bringing back the discussion today because the lead huckster Congressman who has been pushing the FairTax! book bill is retiring, and there is a multi-person battle on to be his replacement.

And frankly, I don’t see people talking about, or frankly interested in, this race. Sure, we get daily press releases telling us what perceived front runner Clay Cox had for breakfast. I promise we’ll print one when we deem it worthy of the usual scorn a post-worthy press release usually gets from the Peach Pundit community.

Rob Woodall, the 40 year old chief of staff of Linder has a credit for co-authorship of the 2nd FairTax! book, and has the backing of Neil Boortz and John Linder, but we’re not sure who else. Chuck Efstration made things interesting by jumping into the race from his position as Gwinnett GOP Chairman, presumably bringing somewhat of a grassroots network with him.

Other names on the ballot are Jeff Fincher, Ronnie Grist, Jody Hice, Tom Kirby, Tom Parrott, and Democrat Doug Heckman.

I spent a good bit of time at the early stages of the GA-9 race in that district trying to find out who the players were. But in doing so, I got a few trips to the Georgia mountains. I’m not real keen on spending any more time on Hwy 78 than I have to, so I’m turning to our Peach Pundit community for a primer on this race.

What are you hearing, who are these people who appear lesser known that the first three, and what are the compelling reasons to send any of them to Washington.

And if you don’t know the answers either, then consider this an OPEN THREAD:


  1. macho says:

    But it is a state issue. When the Ox becomes Governor he plans to call a Constitutional convention

  2. chamblee54 says:

    One of the good things about writing a blog is you can express yourself. You can write something longer than a few words. No one will interrupt you…a major problem in vocal conversation. And, once you have expressed yourself, you can move on to something else.
    Back when my blog was still on Blogspot, I wrote a piece about the fair tax. A certain loudmouth radio entertainer is still flogging this donkey, but some of us have moved on.

  3. BuckheadConservative says:

    I predict this open thread will get either 23 or 34 replies, depending on whether or not you understand basic math.

  4. B Balz says:

    Please indulge this blatant re-post from the last ‘open thread’ as it is both important and may have been easily overlooked. It was far down on the thread:

    “So the good folks over at Georgia BIO, in an effort to highlight a UGA achievement TWENTY years in the making are offering a gubernatorial forum for both the Dems and GOP — But there is only ONE GOP Governor hopeful who has made plans to attend:

    Rep. Nathan Deal!

    Georgia BIO asks that we gently remind those candidates who have not made plans to do so ASAP!!!

    Hat Tip to Mr. [email protected], whose articles are linked below.

    UGA declares “A seminal discovery in animal and human biology,” says Scott Angle, dean of the College of Agriculture and Environmental Sciences.

    The article, catchy title “13 hand crafted pigs”, calls attention to huge benefits to those with diabetes, Multiple Sclerosis, and many other diseases.

    Here is the scoop on the Kennesaw State University Forums:

    The jolt is back: Candidates for governor duck talk about science and jobs

    10:16 am May 10, 2010, by Jim Galloway

    Last month, Georgia Bio invited Democratic and Republican candidates for governor to a pair of forums, where they could express their views on science and economic development before an assembly of the state’s scientists, academics and CEOs of bioresearch companies.

    The consortium of research and business interests scheduled two dates at Kennesaw State University: May 20 for Democrats, and May 27 for Republicans.

    The stampede of candidates has been less than thunderous.

    On the Democratic side, only three have agreed to attend: Attorney General Thurbert Baker, who last week declared biotech to be an essential part of his jobs program; former National Guard commander David Poythress; and Ray City Mayor Carl Camon.

    House Democratic Leader DuBose Porter and former Gov. Roy Barnes have yet to commit, even though the KSU event is in Barnes’ backyard.

    Response from the GOP side has been even weaker. Only former congressman Nathan Deal has agreed to appear.

    Charlie Craig, president of Georgia Bio, says the state’s top technical brains want to know what the men and woman who would be governor think about education, health care reform, economic development and its connection to the life sciences.

    “Candidates who are not participating are telling us that these aren’t priorities for them,” Craig said.

    But don’t fool yourself. Especially on the Republican side, the reluctance is about the restrictions many of the candidates have advocated for such things as embryonic stem cell research – which researchers say has sent a chill down the spines of industry recruiters.

    THANK YOU JIM! As a pragmatic, well armed, GOP voter I appreciate both articles immensely.

    • B Balz says:

      ATLANTA (May 18, 2010) – Georgia Bio late Monday decided to cancel Democratic and Republican gubernatorial forums at Kennesaw State University based on a lack of interest among most of the primary candidates to attend and discuss life sciences related issues.

        • B Balz says:

          Sad, and I for one shall not forget this, regardless of who ends up living on West Paces Ferry…

          • Lady Thinker says:

            Yea but to be fair, you have to look at when the invitation was issued and whether it gave candidates time to book it on their calendars. Most candidates have every waking moment booked from now until July 20th and the booking probably go back to at least January.

                • malaea3 says:

                  The topics for discussion were the significance of life sciences economic development, importance of K-16 science education and the impact of federal health care reform in Georgia. The candidates were sent three questions in advance covering these topics. Georgia Bio has asked all the candidates to submit written answers to the questions by June 4, after which the questions and answers will be posted on Georgia Bio’s website

  5. John Konop says:

    One of many details the FT cult doesn’t not disclose, I wonder why?

    … But, according to the MONEY report, the book fails to make clear that, in order for pre-tax prices to fall so sharply, companies would also have to cut wages they pay.

    “Sure, you’d get to ‘keep 100 percent of your paycheck,’ as Boortz and Linder repeatedly write, but it would be a smaller paycheck,” MONEY senior editor Pat Regnier writes. “That’s kind of a big thing to leave out.”

    According to the report, Boortz denied that “The Fair Tax Book” intentionally overpromises, but admitted that the matter is confusing and that future printings will include a correction. ..

    • Dave Bearse says:

      And there’s the ever-popular assertion its revenue neutral while reduces taxes.

    • (just being devil’s advocate so don’t go all Keynesian on me)


      Would someone really notice a cut in pay equal to withholdings, SS and Medicare(both the employee and employer “contribution”) that would no longer be taken under the FT?

      • John Konop says:


        If you combine the increase in point of sale tax at 30% or higher the middle class would get killed. Also you have to factor in the decrease in property value with a 30% increase on loan payments. And it would kill retires who have been saving tax free via 401k…… And it would destroy the savings for college plans that would be taxed at a 30% rate if not hire on the dollar.

        Devil is always in the detail. As we have talked in the past I do think Charlie Harper idea of replacing Medicare/FICA tax with a national sales tax makes sense because it would not be at an outrageous high rate destroying sales and values. But a 30% rate or higher on the dollar would be shock wave to the system.

        • ByteMe says:

          Not to mention create a Greece-style black market for goods and services, further reducing government revenues to the point of destroying our military readiness.

          Fair Tax is anti-American.

        • John,

          Again I’m not advocating for the FT as written… it truly has some issues… my biggest one is with the pre-bate… and there are others. But for discussion purposes only:

          Any tax reform needs to be transitioned in to alleviate the “shock” factor. Personally, I don’t care what a sales tax system rate begins at as long as I keep 100% of what I earn and when I buy something it is 100% MINE!…. no future taxes or never lien-able unless used as collateral for a loan.

          That being said… after equilibrium(rate) is reach.. we’ll all know if the rate is too high by what Byte seems to be scared of, how big the “black market” grows. He seems to be more for protecting “governments interest”, I’m for the taxpayer/individual/producers. If government wants to “overprice” itself (by over spending on things that is not legitimate government) then people won’t “buy” it. That’s the beauty in a truly voluntary tax system… the power is in the peoples hands.

          • John Konop says:

            Daniel N. Adams,

            This is a similar debate we have about mandatory insurance. As I told my car got hit last year by a guy without insurance and it cost me money. That guy took away my rights. And had it not been illegal I would gotten nothing from this guy.

            The same is true about taxes if you cheat the system and gain from it you took away my rights if the system is short, which is one of the reasons I am big fan of user fees over taxes when it applies.

          • ByteMe says:

            DNA continues to be anti-American, acting like “the government” is not “us”.

            DNA: I’m for protecting our interests. Our interest in having a strong military, our interest in not having a large destitute class of elderly, our interest in making sure our education is the best in the world — we’re not now — and so on. Takes money to do that. You seem more interested in yourself. So be it. Feel free to buy an island and build your own utopia.

            • Agreed, Government can be “us.” But government is not “us” when they exercise illegitimate, “made up” rights that the collective of “I” “us” don’t have. I have no right to steal from one to give to another, no matter how noble the cause. When governments bestow upon themselves to do things like that, government is not “us.” Government becomes “they.” And that sir is about as American as one can get.
              When governments, created by the people, honor individual liberty the whole ship rises… (our island went from wilderness to superpower in less that 150 years under the principle and respect of individual liberty ) however, your un-American socialist utopia is a flawed logic and is sinking all of “us!” And that, ByteMe, is not in “our” interest.

              • ByteMe says:

                150 years ago, we weren’t the greatest most powerful nation on earth. We’re getting better at this.

                What you claim to be “illegitimate made up rights” is your problem. You can exist in that alternative universe along with the other 5% of you. I want us to get better at what the collective society has decided (before I was born) that we need our government to do for us. You want to tear it down and throw it all away and return to that great time 150 years ago when people didn’t have their own teeth after the age of 40… if they even lived to be 40. Good luck with that.

                • Well at least we understand one another… however, I never said I want us to return to 150 yeas ago… just maybe government; back to it’s size and interventionist scope.

                  We, the Freedom Liberty minded Americans, believe we are a Great Nation in spite of our government, not because of it!

                  You clearly either don’t understand the concept of rights or you choose to ignore them. Funny thing, I recently posted something similar to this on facebook:

                  1st Natural Law of Liberty: Rights can neither be created nor destroyed. They can only be protected or ignored.

                  • ByteMe says:

                    Children think in terms of their own rights. Adults think in terms of their responsibilities.

                    • Haha haha ha!

                      It’s funny how socialist see themselves as Robin Hood, when in fact they represent the tyrants and tax collectors…. and then they have the nerve to want to preach to us about being responsible…. Ha!

                      How many more countries do you socialist have to bankrupt before you’re satisfied and/or learn, your philosophy is flawed. It relies on producers being willing victims of your thievery and as Margaret Thatcher stated, “eventually you run out of other people’s money!”

                    • ByteMe says:

                      DNA: Sounds like you’re the one who views yourself as Robin Hood come to save everyone from that evil “socialism”.

                      You know that Robin’s a myth, right? And even in the myth, he was never allowed to be in charge of anything other than his “merry band of thieves”.

                    • “If any man’s money can be taken by a so-called government, without
                      his own personal consent, all his other rights are taken with it; for
                      with his money the government can, and will, hire soldiers to stand over
                      him, compel him to submit to its arbitrary will, and kill him if he

                      ~Lysander Spooner, famous abolitionist, excerpt from a letter to Grover Cleveland, 1886

                      National Income Tax– Enslaving Productive Americans since 1913

                    • ByteMe says:

                      So you want me to debate a guy who’s been dead 130 years now, huh? Seems like a fair fight. 🙂

  6. ZazaPachulia says:

    Since this is an open thread, can we go ahead and get about 50 more comments concerning the “Deal v. Handel Gay Rights Battle Royale”?

    Anybody know Otis Putnam’s stand on the Fair Tax?
    How about Eric Johnson’s? I’m guessing Johnson pays lip service to the concept, since he’s the candidate who has a proven track-record of championing ‘fuzzy math’ non-solutions to Georgia’s most pressing shortfalls (see: school vouchers)

  7. Progressive Dem says:

    The President has some good writers, but his timing for delivering a funny line is very good. This is just a few seconds, but funny.

  8. chamblee54 says:

    I have assembled three posts about the “fair tax” into one term paper post. It is illustrated by pictures from the GSU Library. This is the same source the Atlanta Time Machine uses. The pictures are more focused than the text.

  9. sethweathers says:

    @icarus – glad you pointed that out. i had just actually mentioned Rob being a co-author of the FT book on my facebook page yesterday. i think a lot of people will be very impressed when they hear Rob speak. the guy is incredibly informed on the issues and is an incredibly humble individual. i’ve known rob around 7 or 8 years and i can’t think of someone who would be better informed or a more ETHICAL representative in congress for the 7th district.

      • sethweathers says:

        based on your opinion of the FairTax? i see issues with every potential tax reform option but i also know, with any of its faults, we would all be a hell of a lot better of with the FairTax than our current system. And there are a LOT of american’s behind the FairTax

        • ByteMe says:

          Just because you can get a lot of people to agree with you doesn’t make it interesting. Heck, at the Tea Party gatherings, you could find people with signs saying “Get Government Hands Off My Medicare!” And how retarded is that?

          And, no, we would not — 100% N.O.T. — be better with the Fair Tax as described both in the book and in the not-quite-the-same-thing bill introduced by Rep Linder. You cannot suddenly decide to tax spending instead of income by flipping a switch X years out and not create a monstrous economic dislocation. It doesn’t work. And then once people figure out the actual tax rate that pays for current spending needs — instead of the permanent deficit levels accepted in the book and the bill — you’ll end up creating a huge black market which will then further starve our government for money, which puts our military preparedness and our seniors at risk. No thanks.

          Sell the book to someone who doesn’t understand the economy, politics, or math. I’m not buyin’.

          • Lady Thinker says:

            Thanks Byte for putting that into perspective for us not financially savvy folk.

  10. John Konop says:

    Deal is out fund raising with Mark Foley while GAY BASHING? I would love to hear from the Deal people why he was out raising money with a sexual predator?

    …..That Grand Old Partier, Republican Congressman John Sweeney (R-NY) formed a fundraising committee less than three weeks ago with sexual predator ex-Congressman Mark Foley (R-FL). The unfortunate name of their new Republican fundraising venture? It’s called PROM…..

    Mark Foley’s PROM Date With Cong. John Sweeney (R-NY)
    … Roll Call today has a report about a new joint fundraising committee created by ex-U.S. Rep. Mark Foley and a number of his former Republican congressional colleagues that goes by the (in light of recent events) unfortunate name of PROM – Physicians to Retain Our Majority…..

    …… the committee had an event last month, according to the NRCC Web site:
    Event: You are cordially invited to P.R.O.M. Night:
    You are cordially invited to P.R.O.M. Night: Physicians to Retain our Majority With Honorary Chairman of the Red Rooster Leadership PAC Nathan Deal……'s+PROM+Date+With+Cong.+John+Sweeney+(R-NY)/6937b5a6-2379-b458-bf6d-8cba7577bdea/prom-planning

    • Lady Thinker says:


      O.M.G! Does the Deal staffers know this? That Deal is mixing with a confirmed sexual predator?

      Also, regarding ReaganRepublican. Do you think he/she realizes that Deal was a Democrat during all eight years of Reagan’s presidency? If Deal stayed a Dem during that time and didn’t switch parties until it was politically feasible for him to do so, then does Reagan Republican realize his handle is inaccurate?

      I doubt Reagan Republican was alive in the eighties or if he/she was, they were surely too young to know what was going on or even vote.

      • Three Jack says:

        while i certainly do not support deal, it’s a bit of a stretch to say he is “out fundraising with mark foley”. especially since the event was held 4 years ago before foley resigned in disgrace.

        there are many current gaffes which are much more serious that deal should be addressing.

        • John Konop says:

          According to Roll Call it was done after Mark Foley was “outed” as a sexual predator.

          … Roll Call today has a report about a new joint fundraising committee created by ex-U.S. Rep. Mark Foley and a number of his former Republican congressional colleagues that goes by the (in light of recent events) unfortunate name of PROM – Physicians to Retain Our Majority…..

  11. Harry says:

    Fair tax has been put forth by certain RINO politicians and commentators to “prove” their conservative cred, when in reality they know it’s too complicated and politically impossible to implement.

    Flat tax, not fair tax is what’s needed.

      • Three Jack says:

        “too complicated”…hmmm you mean like a total overhaul of the medical system which just passed congress after less than a year of debate.

        if the left can pass that monstrosity, then by all means the gop should be pushing some form of major tax code overhaul. and if certain people can’t keep up because it’s “too complicated”, then stay out of the way.

  12. sethweathers says:

    @icarus btw, i think the race is pretty much getting defined as being Cox/Woodall as the front runners and i would place a large bet that it would be the two of them in the runoff

  13. DriveByDawg says:

    Cox = voted for bed “fee” but says he doesn’t vote for tax increases. Arrogant and clearly thinks he has this in the bag. 7th is still very rural and those nice suits, starched shirts and cuff links don’t play well around here.

    Woodall = really nice guy but he’s a carpetbagger. We in the 7th will not vote for someone who moves here to run (and brings the DC staff with him) thinking we should send him right back to DC simply because he was Linder’s CoS and out of loyalty to the FT movement.

    Jody Hice = radio personality and “strict constitutionalist.” Where have we heard that before? Even sounds like the “Berry” when he speaks.

    Tom Kirby = another really nice and personable guy. Speaks in language that appeals to regular folks. Like Woodall, talks a bit too much about the FairTax – needs to work on this but could be a dark horse.

    Efstration = Icky is right – comes with grassroots support and has laid down the gauntlet on things he will/won’t do. Only candidate who has also publically said he will not move to DC but rather commute as necessary. While many think he got in late – his name was certainly out there from the 1st day of Linder’s retirement announcement. Plus – has Erick’s endorsement which is good news/bad news depending on your views of Erick and his endorsements.

    Just saw Fincher, Grist and Parrott at a candidate forum last night for the first time so don’t have much to say about them except good luck.

    Predict runoff between Cox & Efstration. Efstration to DC.

    • TidePrideGA says:

      I’m in the 7th as well and I pretty much agree with DriveByDawg’s assessments and predictions, except that I disagree that Clay thinks he has this in the bag, much less clearly. Clay definitely knows he’s got a tough fight against Chuck. And, as TKrause points out, he voted against the bed tax, not for it.

      Personally, I’m still trying to decide who to support but I think the 7th will do well with either Clay or Chuck.

      • DriveByDawg says:

        Thanks Tide & TK for clarification on bed tax vote.

        Clay spent a whole lot of time going directly after Rob at the forum Thursday night. If he thinks he has competition from Chuck his game plan must be to either ignore him, or I suppose more likely, keep his powder dry and wait a little longer before moving on him.

        Another thing – no matter the general consensus of PP, the 7th is the center of the FT world. If you are a R and even give a hint that you either don’t support it or might be willing to find other methods of tax reform, you are in for a hard fight. Many FT’ers are single issue voters because they think it’s a cure for everything and will very likely bring world peace. They also have a lot of power in this district – don’t believe me – ask Saxby.

  14. Technocrat says:

    Hate to bring this up but does anyone know if our favorite ILLEGAL received HOPE FUNDS at Kennesaw [she graded HS with a 3.8] so feasable.

    Her transcript should be withheld [frozen] until she repays GA at minimum.
    Infact she owes out of state tuition just as any foreign student pays.

    • AubieTurtle says:

      This situation seems to be somewhat common place. The only difference is the illegal immigrant student and her allies are bold enough to make a public fuss about it. I’m not sure why we expect the rest of the world to respect the immigration laws in this country when it is obvious that we don’t respect them ourselves.

      Much like they did with dumping the mentally ill onto the city streets starting in the 80s, the left and the right both have really filthy hands on this issue. When they get together and cooperate, there is nothing they can’t destroy.

      • benevolus says:

        A public fuss? She is a human being. She is not a statistic or an abstract idea. She is a person.

        She was brought here when she was 10 years old. She is doing everything we would ask an immigrant to do to be a valuable and productive citizen, but she can’t be a citizen because of something her parents did.
        It would be a very cold world if the only things that ever mattered were the monetary cost of something and making sure we left no gray areas in our rules.

        • AubieTurtle says:

          Ten years old is old enough to know your parents are doing something wrong. And she isn’t ten any more. She has been an adult for years. She has made ZERO effort to correct her illegal situation. Instead she has driven WITHOUT a drivers license because she decided on her own that she has the required skill to drive. What if everyone decided to do that?

          She drove WITHOUT insurance, which increases the cost of insurance for everyone else. What if everyone, regardless of ability to pay for damage they cause, decided not to buy insurance.

          She willing lied on her college application and got a a lower tuition rate because she felt entitled to it. KSU has a finite amount of money and she willfully misdirected some of that to her own purposes while others who were entitled did without. So what if she now will pay out of state tuition… when someone is caught robbing a bank do we tell them all is ok as long as they put the money back?

          She is a person… a person who thinks she is above the law. Not just immigration law but every other law she picks and chooses if she should be required to abide by.

          Nope, don’t feel the slightest bit of sympathy for her. My parents are immigrants and they went through all of the trouble required to come here legally. If I drive without a license or insurance, I expect there to be consequences even if one of those consequences is that my other illegal activities (if there were any) are found out and I’m held accountable for them.

          She is a person. A criminal person. A high GPA from a Georgia high school doesn’t magically make that fact go away. Plenty of criminals are smart. Plenty of people in other countries who wish to come to this country and are doing so legally are smart. Smart is not some magical ‘ignore the law’ card.

          • benevolus says:

            The difficult question is not whether she did something wrong or not, but what is the appropriate response.

    • benevolus says:

      Interesting- Let her stay and pay off her debt, or throw her out and take the loss?

      • AubieTurtle says:

        Interesting- You get all high and mighty about her being a person not a number but then try to appeal to numbers to defend her staying. Project much?

        • benevolus says:

          It was a question posed to Technocrat, who seems preoccupied with how much she might owe them.

    • Icarus says:

      Actually, I think we retired “FairTax! Friday when we took up Bank Failure Friday, but we usually don’t get the press release about Georgia’s weekly bank failure until about 6pm Friday evenings, later if there are banks on the west coast also being liquidated.

  15. The Commissioner of Banking and Finance spoke at our Kiwanis Club meeting on Thursday. He pointed out that part of the reason we’ve had a lot of bank failures was Georgia’s banking laws. Up until the 1990s, if you were a bank and you wanted to expand to the next county over, you could not open just a branch, but you had to charter a completely new bank. For example, ABC bank in Cobb County, a state chartered bank, wanted to expand to Cherokee. They couldn’t just open a branch like the national banks could, rather they had to charter ABC Bank of Cherokee with a separate charter and board of directors. If they do this again in Paulding, Fulton and Forsyth, they have 5 locations of ABC Bank, but they are all considered separate banks.

    Now let’s say ABC bank goes under and although they were separate charters, the assets were shared because they had the same owners and investors and pulled risk like they were one big bank. However, on paper, it would look like 5 banks failed, not just one.

    • Lady Thinker says:

      Wow, that is one way to drive up costs for duplication of services while ignoring operational sunk costs.

      • AubieTurtle says:

        While it is common in the South (and certain exists ouside of the region), Georgia takes being provincial to an order of magnitude above everyone else. The mentioned banking laws are just another of many many examples of this.

    • John Konop says:

      Jason Shepherd,

      You are right the exposure is the ratio of loans and fix cost against reserves via dollars not locations. With that said if you loan people or a business money based on an asset value not on cash flow value than it is a hot potato business model.

      For instance:

      If a commercial building is generating a 50k a month in rent it is gambling in you loan more than what the income after expenses can generate to service the loan. That is why appraisal value based on sales means very little to me.

      The same is true for residential real-estate if you buy a 700k home and you cannot rent it for more than 3k if it all you are upside-down on book value.

      The lack of above discipline is why banks are in trouble.

    • AubieTurtle says:

      Has anyone seen a list of bank failures by state ranked by FDIC payout per capita? That would be a better measure of which states allowed the foxes to chow down in the chicken coop.

    • B Balz says:

      Interesting perspective Jason. Not disputing it either, and I have a different view…

      Credit unions, generally speaking, did not come close to suffering the magnitude of losses shown by commercial banks. The ‘chartering’ issue may account suggest a ‘force multiplier’ of bank failures, but the underlying issue is the way banks were underwriting real esate loans.

      Basically, you just heard a “Nixon-esque” defense of banks failing to properly underwrite risk. They failed miserably due to greed, legislated laxity, and an irrational exuberance.

    • Mad Dog says:


      I’ve read and re-read your post about one banking failure counting as five on paper.

      There is absolutely no truth in that.

      The FDIC does not count banking failures in that manner nor does the Georgia Department of Banking and Finance.

      Wanna argue that?

      • Mad Dog says:

        OCC Preemption Determination and Order, Docket NO. 03-17, page 63

        You ought to read through that Order to understand why Georgia Banks failed at such a high rate.

        Note the issues of parity with national banks. And the year 2003. Protections against balloon payments etc etc etc.

        All lost when an Indiana bank, National City Bank of Indiana initiated action with the OCC.

        Banks asked for it. They got it. Let them pay for it. No more excuses about something that might have been happening back in the 1980’s.

        Yes, I said 80’s/

  16. John Konop says:

    This is what we are facing on a state and federal level. And our problems are even larger when state healthcare pensions and Medicare hits within the next 10 years! To many want the cake without the price.

    Debt Crisis Casts Spotlight On Ireland’s Low Taxes

    NPR….But the economic collapse of the past few years — unemployment has gone from 4.5 percent to more than 13 percent — has exposed the downside of Ireland’s low-tax policies, and forced it to backtrack somewhat, he says.

    A Property Bust

    The government has depended heavily on consumption taxes, which are down sharply, as well as taxes on real estate transactions. Because of government policies that encouraged property development and a flood of foreign investment, the country experienced an infamous construction boom. As a result, money poured into government coffers, which it used to pay for infrastructure projects like school modernization and higher wages for public employees.
    “The unsustained property taxes that the government was taking was giving the government the false sense that this money is there to be spent, and we can actually take this money and there will be no end to it,” says Mark Fielding of the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association, a lobbying group for business.
    With the bust in the housing market, starting in 2007, property tax revenues slowed sharply, and Dublin began to amass a massive budget deficit. At the same time, the government decided to help prop up some of its bad banks, staggering under the weight of failed real estate deals.

    The government needed to borrow to cover its deficit. But after the collapse of Lehman Brothers in September 2008, the credit markets dried up, and heavily indebted countries like Ireland found it nearly impossible to borrow the money they needed.
    To cover its deficit, Ireland was forced to make sharp cuts in wages and programs — and to raise wage taxes by about 4 percent. The increases have been unpopular, but Fielding says the country had no choice.

    “Our tax base was way too small for the economy, and too many people weren’t paying taxes,” Fielding says. “And again, you’ll have the social do-gooders say, ‘Well, you can’t afford to be taxing these people.’ But the facts of the matter are that without a tax base, the economy just can’t run.”

    “What the government has not done is raise corporate taxes, O’Leary says…..


  17. Mad Dog says:


    Thank you for the kind email exchange. You opted NOT to answer here. And you didn’t give satifactory answer in email.

    So, I’m asking again. From your very own example, “[O]n paper, it would look like 5 banks failed, not just one.” Name one bank with multiple branches that was wrongly counted as multiple bank failures.

    And I’m answering for you.

    Zip. Zero. Nada.


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