Handel Refuses Future Appearances With McBerry After Today; Deal Responds By Throwing Perdue Under CREW’s Bus

May 1, 2010 16:11 pm

by Icarus · 338 comments

Just getting word that there was a somewhat of an eventful finish to today’s Governor forum held by the 6th District GOP. Karen Handel closed by saying that she would no longer accept debate invitation for panels which include Ray McBerry. Handel, who made her feelings toward McBerry publicly known earlier, said the GOP was a party of ethics and she did not feel it was appropriate to condone McBerry past actions by continuting to appear with him.

Deal, following in his closing remarks, reacted to Handel’s mention of ethics by charging that Handel only read what her staff told her, and noted that Governor Perdue had been labled a “worst Governor” by CREW, the same organization that labled him a corrupt Congressman. He then questioned how Handel could support Perdue after Crew’s allegation.

Given that Deal wasn’t mentioned by Handel at all during the close or in an earlier answer on ethics (I’m now told that Handel did mention Deal by name. I still think he’s too touchy on the subject), you’ve just got to think that Deal has a thin skin, guilty conscience, inability to stay on message, and/or is obsessed with Handel as he believes her to be the architect of the witch hunt that forced him to take a no-bid “arrangement” with the state and then have his chief of staff use his Congressional office to protect the cash flow.

I’ve been quite amazed at Deal’s ability to shoot himself in the foot throughout this campaign. Now bringing up ethics problems by a still popular Sonny Perdue that had previously gone unnoticed in the Georgia press is sure to make him many new friends. Genius I say, pure genius.

Meanwhile, the guy over in the corner smiling is Eric Johnson. He’s been content to let Handel and Scott rail against the unethical, and let Ox and Deal bleed to death over their ethics problems. With Austin Scott now running for Congress, Johnson now has the first tangible sign that he, in fact, is the beneficiary of the reduced number of contestants. Johnson won today’s straw poll, and we’ll give him his own post about that in a few.

Jim Galloway was the moderator of today’s event. Hopefully he’ll decide to share with us more details of the weird finale. Suffice it to say, things are starting to get interesting.

redrock May 1, 2010 at 4:21 pm

Why is McBerry still campaigning?

Is he hoping no one saw the handwritten letter he penned to the 17 year old girl he was stalking?

We saw it Ray – and once it marinades a little while you might lose some of your strong hold and slide back down to 2%.

Romegaguy May 1, 2010 at 5:56 pm

was he ever running for Governor?

Jim Bob May 1, 2010 at 9:44 pm

Icarus,

Your obsession with the Moderate Karen Handel is not going to get her elected. Nice try though….

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 10:42 pm

We know you secretly support her. (: >

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 10:54 pm

We know you secretly support her! (:>

Glen Ross May 4, 2010 at 10:29 am

No substance here, just trying to get this thread to over 300 comments. But out of respect for the moderators, I’ll say this: I don’t think this stunt will work.

B Balz May 1, 2010 at 4:26 pm

Meanwhile, the guy over in the corner smiling is King Rat

polisavvy May 3, 2010 at 1:39 pm

I believe you are correct, B Balz!

bowersville May 1, 2010 at 4:47 pm

It’s bad enough that the GaGOP has no mechanism in place to remove McBerry from the ballot.

Mark me clearly in the undecided category for Governor. That being said.

It’s clearly time that all candidates for Govenor boycott any event that requires them to be on the same stage as McBerry. The least that could be done is place the dunce McBerry in the corner on a stool.

Don’t give McBerry the courtesy of a microphone or stage. When he blows up, call the police.

macho May 1, 2010 at 5:25 pm

All of the other candidates are afraid of offending McBerry’s 1% of the GOP Primary votes. Since the case was never tried, McBerry’s actions fall somewhere on the spectrum between creepy and despicable. Regardless, I don’t want that dude in the Governor’s mansion. Between Halloween and Girl Scout Cookie day, Ray would be having a field day over there.

The other candidates need to join Karen in boycotting events that have McBerry, otherwise, GA will become the laughing stock of the nation.

I saw Chapman pulled the “innocent until proven guilty” defense of McBerry. I normally like Chapman, so I was surprised to see him defending McBerry. Jeff – he was suspended from teaching and had a restraining order against him. How much guilt do you need?

If I were the father of that girl, McBerry’s guilt would be permanently tattooed on his ass with my shoe imprint. But, I’m a father of a little girl, so I have a little different perspective than some. I don’t want my girl graduating Junior High and getting preyed on by a bunch of creepy male teachers.

Doug Deal May 1, 2010 at 5:45 pm

If that’s Chapman’s answer he certainly isn’t ready for prime time, maybe he a closet fan and denialist.

Isn’t it funny that McBerry’s interest in the Constitution wanes when he hits the 14th amendment, and 14 is the age at which he loses interest in females.

macho May 1, 2010 at 5:48 pm

LOL

Mozart May 1, 2010 at 5:53 pm

Sick, sick, sick, Doug. But, sick humor is a necessity for politics.

Tom May 6, 2010 at 6:06 am

It’s got to be something about the number 14 then. :)

Romegaguy May 1, 2010 at 5:57 pm

+14

ready2rumble May 1, 2010 at 4:50 pm

Handel said what needed to be said about Mcberry. Good for her. A number of people approached her after she got off stage, and thanked her for saying what she said about Mcberry.

I may have missed it, but I never heard Handel mention anything about Deal’s ethical challenges. I am shocked that Deal would attack our governor like he did.

Mozart May 1, 2010 at 5:15 pm

Just another case of pseudo-Republicans eating their young….

ConcernedGeorgian May 1, 2010 at 6:04 pm

Don’t get me wrong here; I believe that what McBerry did was wrong. But a lot of what is wrong with our party is the “movers and shakers” making the calls with no regard for the voters. Let the voters be McBerry’s judge; not Sue Everhart, the GA GOP, and certainly not Karen Handel.

macho May 1, 2010 at 6:14 pm

Ultimately the voters will be the Judge. But, it’s incumbent upon our leaders to set the appropriate example.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 5:26 pm

Besides, Karen is not McBerry’s judge. She just refuses to appear on the dais – or anywhere else – with him. Why should a decent person be required to lend tacit approval in such a situation ?

Jim Bob May 1, 2010 at 9:37 pm

R2R/Dan,

I would expect nothing less from you.

macho May 1, 2010 at 5:33 pm

Here is Johnson’s quote, stating that he’ll be happy to continue to be on the same stage as McBerry: http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/05/01/karen-handel-no-more-appearances-with-ray-mcberry/?cxntfid=blogs_political_insider_jim_galloway

Looks like Eric is going to give McBerry the same free pass he gave Richardson. It’s as if Johnson is head of the ethics investigation all over again. If you’re going to be a leader, you can’t be afraid of taking a stand.

I also think it’s a stark contrast that all the men have no problem hanging with McBerry, but that woman does. I wonder if McBerry started creeping around one of their daughters, if their attitudes might change.

Read this interview with the girl, who had the restraining order against McBerry. Try not to get the heebie jeebies when you read it.

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/04/29/parents-church-and-judge-told-future-gop-candidate-for-governor-leave-the-girl-alone/

Doug Deal May 1, 2010 at 5:39 pm

I am disappointed in Johnson. Grow a pair and show some leadership. Perhaps Karen is the only one acceptable left in the race.

ReaganRepublican May 1, 2010 at 11:14 pm

Karen has never been acceptable by real conservatives.

-Supported same-sex partners before she was against them
– Established an anti-life record before she decided to run statewide and became pro-life
– Has lived in Georgia less than the remaining candidates have been involved in the Georgia Republican Party
– Performs the same, canned speech pretty well until someone from the audience asks her a technical questions
– Will not raise the necessary fund to win the primary, much less take on Roy Barnes
– Has yet to complete a full 4-year term in office
– The same can be said about her college or technical school studies

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 11:22 pm

You post this garbage and never give facts or links even when we ask for them. Deal got what, 69 votes to Karen’s 130? Deal is obviously afraid of Karen and it shows with you guys posting this junk about Karen to divert attention from him. He has been “captured by the natives,” the special interest groups. And as I recall, he quit Congress, changed his mind a day or two later to go to Washington, then quit a second time, all within a month. Indecisive?

ReaganRepublican May 2, 2010 at 1:09 am

Why did GRTL refuse to endorse her when she ran for SOS?

Ask about her now infamous remaks made at a Fulton County Commission meeting?

AlanR May 2, 2010 at 11:59 am

staying in congress for the health care vote is a good thing. Remember everyone thought it could come down to one or two votes.

SFrazier May 3, 2010 at 5:34 pm

There is a lot more proof of her supporting the gay agenda, if you need it just ask. A buddy of mine even has a picture of her in a gay march:

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/freshloaf/2009/07/17/karen-handel-gay-marriage-and-some-bring-it-on-nonsense/

ByteMe May 3, 2010 at 5:38 pm

Better than politicians supporting the pro-hatred agenda that some religious people want.

SFrazier May 3, 2010 at 6:01 pm

Than why is she lying? Why does she not tell the truth about where she stands on the issue? If she changed her mind, why did it occur whe she ran for state wide office?

ByteMe May 3, 2010 at 6:33 pm

She’s elected to support her constituents. In Fulton County, that includes a significantly large gay population relative to the general population. In Georgia, less so and that’s the constituents she wants to serve now, so she’s giving them what they want now.

Jim Bob May 3, 2010 at 6:56 pm

A picture is worth a thousand words…..so post it…

benevolus May 3, 2010 at 7:22 pm

What is the “gay agenda”? Mandatory hot pants and tank tops?

John Konop May 2, 2010 at 7:44 am

ReaganRepublican,

We are facing real issues in our state and our country! It is gut, non-issue style politics that is played on both sides from people like you that is destroying our country.

Jim Bob May 2, 2010 at 8:16 am

RR,

Reminds me of a line from the movie A Few Good Men…”You can’t handle the truth”.

I disagree that explaining how somone is a Moderate and not prepared to be the Executive of the state is “destroying our country”.

Keep on defending that wall……

John Konop May 2, 2010 at 8:28 am

RR,

The irony of your post is Jesus is all about loving your neighbor and not judging people. The overriding theme of the BIBLE is the hypocrisy of people like you that claim to see the light while putting down others! You should read the Good Samaritan parable and revaluate your comments.

The parable goes;

One day an expert in religious law stood up to test Jesus by asking him this question: “Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus replied, “What does the law of Moses say? How do you read it?” The man answered, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.’ And, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” “Right!” Jesus told him. “Do this and you will live!” The man wanted to justify his actions, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Jesus then replied with a story:

“A Jewish man was travelling on a trip from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by bandits. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him up, and left him half dead beside the road. By chance a priest came along. But when he saw the man lying there, he crossed to the other side of the road and passed him by. A Levite walked over and looked at him lying there, but he also passed by on the other side. Then a despised Samaritan came along, and when he saw the man, he felt compassion for him. Going over to him, the Samaritan soothed his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. Then he put the man on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next day he handed the innkeeper two silver coins, telling him, ‘Take care of this man. If his bill runs higher than this, I’ll pay you the next time I’m here.’ “Now which of these three would you say was a neighbor to the man who was attacked by bandits?” Jesus asked. The man replied, “The one who showed him mercy.” Then Jesus said, “Yes, now go and do the same.

Jim Bob May 2, 2010 at 8:52 am

Maybe you should direct that to Icarus and the rest of posters (myself included) instead of calling out RR just because you don’t like what he is saying…

ReaganRepublican May 2, 2010 at 9:07 am

Christianity does not look at morality as relative like Karen and yourself. Christ was very divisive while on earth, as the bible and his life on earth gives us a very definitive code of morality. I love the sinner and that is why I will not lie to them about Gods definitive truths. We are all sinners, but through His blood and through faith alone we can be saved. Since it is Sunday, this is very appropriate. This is the only preaching that Handelistas will receive today.Off to church.

John Konop May 2, 2010 at 1:24 pm

RR,

You are upset at Karen for speaking out against a candidate that was dismissed from teaching at a school in which he had an inappropriate relationship with a minor? And than you GAY BASH in the name of Christianity! And you support Deal who was reprimanded from congress for unethical behavior. WOW!!!!

I grew up Jewish and I have one business that is run by a guy who grew up Muslim. I have done business deals with people regardless to sex, religion, race, sexual preference, political party…….And my biggest warning sign of not to do a deal is when someone uses religion as a tool rather than focusing on the deal. That is when I hold on to my wallet in fear it may disappear.

I am always very suspicious of the self-righteous that use religion as weapon! And unlike you I believe America is land of opportunity for all regardless to religious beliefs, race……

ReaganRepublican May 2, 2010 at 4:10 pm

No self righteousness here John, I know that at the foot of the cross we are all equal. And if someone wants to be gay, or not believe in God that is their choice I do not care. They should be free to tell me about their unbelief just like I should be free to tell them of my beliefs. Regardless, the bible gives us a specific moral code of what is right and wrong. That is my gauge, I really do not care if you choose something else, and that’s your free choice. You should not discriminate against me for not buying into your moral relativism. I bet you were overjoyed when the Pentagon disinvited Franklin Graham to the national day of prayer? Discrimination against Christians might help get out the vote in the pagan North East, but not in the South where we still have a Judeo-Christian definitive moral compass.
Why do you have to treat me like my name is Georgia GOP? lol

John Konop May 2, 2010 at 10:36 pm

RR,

You should read this, it may open up your eyes and heart!

….True religion is neither rules-based nor ritual-based. True religion is a relationship with God. Two things that all religions hold are that humanity is somehow separated from God and needs to be reconciled to Him. False religion seeks to solve this problem by observing rules and rituals. True religion solves the problem by recognizing that only God could rectify the separation, and that He has done so. True religion recognizes the following:

We have all sinned and are therefore separated from God (Romans 3:23).

If not rectified, the just penalty for sin is death and eternal separation from God after death (Romans 6:23).

God came to us in the Person of Jesus Christ and died in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve, and rose from the dead to demonstrate that His death was a sufficient sacrifice (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

If we receive Jesus as the Savior, trusting His death as the full payment for our sins, we are forgiven, saved, redeemed, reconciled, and justified with God (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9)…..

http://www.gotquestions.org/true-religion.html

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:08 pm

So, perhaps what you’re saying here, John, is that Karen Handel should demonstrate how much love she has for Ray McBerry as a fellow Christian, right?

ReaganRepublican May 2, 2010 at 12:45 pm

Perhaps Karen should do what the bible tells us to do. First she should take it up with Ray. If Ray is guilty and refusing to repent and drop out than she should get a brother in Christ and approach him again. If the result is the same than bring before all Christians.

Jeff May 2, 2010 at 2:42 pm

RR:

That is EXACTLY what Linda Pittman did with Ray before taking him to court and getting a restraining order on him.

And yet, here we are.

ReaganRepublican May 2, 2010 at 4:18 pm

All in all it is a very sad situation. McBerry has good honorable people working very hard for him. If it is true shame on him, if it is not than shame on his accusers for not allowing our legal system to do its job.

It is time he comes forward and explains things though?

Jeff May 2, 2010 at 4:28 pm

RR:

It was him “explaining things” that led to everything being uncovered.

John Konop May 2, 2010 at 2:28 pm

Mozart,

Pharisees would have been proud of you! You defend a teacher who had an affair with a minor, condone office holders manipulating the system for personal wealth and gay bash in the name of Christianity.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 4:06 pm

John,

You speak with false and forked tongue. You could be a court jester if you were just a little more clever.

Mayonnaise May 3, 2010 at 12:54 pm

“The overriding theme of the BIBLE is the hypocrisy of people like you” …….. not.

The over-riding theme of the Bible is that God provided a sacrifice for man’s sin. That sacrifice was his Son Jesus Christ.

benevolus May 3, 2010 at 1:00 pm

The over-riding theme of the Bible is that there is Good and there is Evil, and you should choose to do Good.

Icarus May 3, 2010 at 1:04 pm

In a thread that already has over 250 comments, I’m going to ask that we not start a debate about the real theme of the Bible.

If anyone really wants to debate that, please take it to an open thread.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 11:06 am

Good response but as you know the Deal camp posts the same old non-issue comments over and over. I keep asking for cite references and they never furnish them. I just need to learn to ignore them and not respond.

Were you at the debate Saturday? Melvin Everson was a hit as always, Max Wood was very concise and informative, Gerry Purcell was on a roll with great responses, and Brian Kemp did not show for his debate against Doug (I won’t even attempt to spell his last name). Someone in the audience held up a sign asking, “Where is Brian?”

There were lots of candidate signs and enthusiasm from those in attendance. It was really a fun debate.

Maurice Atkinson May 3, 2010 at 11:35 am

I don’t have a whole lot of problems with either one of them. But, saying Karen is not a conservative is nuts. Karen has been effective in both elected positions that she has held.

In the end, that’s what we are attempting to achieve, electing someone that will govern responsibly.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:04 pm

I don’t see where it was actually “Karen” who personally uttered these words to Jim Galloway…looks like Danny-Boy is doing all her thinking for her, with Galloway along for the ride as the unpaid media stoolie:

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/04/30/ray-mcberry-makes-karen-handel-very-uncomfortable/?cxntfid=blogs_political_insider_jim_galloway

Mayonnaise May 1, 2010 at 9:53 pm

Nice try (not so) Macho…… Here is what the link states:

Through an e-mail, Johnson campaign manager Ben Fry said this: “What Ray McBerry has been accused of doing is reprehensible and inexcusable. We would certainly support debate organizers choosing to exclude him from events. Eric is passionate about this state and his plans to put Georgia back to work and there is nobody that’s going to keep him from talking directly to the people of Georgia about his vision for the future.
If others want to use this as an excuse to duck debates and tough questions, that’s fine.”

So, it was not “Johnson’s quote” as you stated and it doesn’t come close to saying ” that he’ll be happy to continue to be on the same stage as McBerry”. Kind of dumb for you to post a bald-face lie, and then post a link that contradicts your lie.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:50 am

Nice touche, Mayo.

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:38 am

Like I said, he’s has no problem continuing to get up on stage with McBerry; and is perfectly happy to do so. How cowardly is it to say I’ve got a problem with what he did, but I’m still going to hang out with him as if nothing happened. I’m guessing if it were Johnson’s young daughter that McBerry stalked, that Eric wouldn’t be quite so obtuse about hanging with him.

Sometimes a real leader has to take a stand even if that means avoiding some debates with a child perv. The last thing we need is some pictures for Barnes of a child perv and Johnson or a child perv and the Ox, with big ol’ smiles on their faces.

This thing is playing out like the Richardson ethics investigation all over again. Same old excuses, don’t agree with the behavior but there is nothing I can do.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:12 am

My told me this morning that she hopes someone has the guts to be on the stage with McBerry to publicly condemn him every time he appears.

With Karen being too frightened, apparently, to do that, let’s hope a real man will be able to face the “fear of Ray.”

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:52 am

Err..should be: “My wife told me this morning that she hopes someone has the guts to be on the stage with McBerry to publicly condemn him every time he appears.”

Mayonnaise May 2, 2010 at 4:02 pm

Handel’s liberal propaganda = “has no problem”, “happy to do so”, “hang out with him”. Identify the boogie-man and then smear everyone else via “association”. Pathetic but great to see that the Handel folks now realize that Johnson is the guy to beat.

AlanR May 2, 2010 at 11:48 am

Thanks for the link. Missed this and its really crucial to the McBerry story.

ConcernedGeorgian May 1, 2010 at 5:36 pm

Deal does have a point. I have heard Handel give the same stump speech several times and every time she has notes typed out. It was nice to see Deal punch back. I just wish there would have been an exchange. I would like to see how quick the candidates are on their toes. Also, did Eric Johnson just beat her in a staw poll in Fulton County? Either her base died or she is losing support.

macho May 1, 2010 at 5:38 pm

I’ll tell you another thing. If you’re a Republican, you ought to be very happy that people like John Watson and Karen Handel have spoken out against McBerry; as it gives the party, and our reputation, a little cover. I understand the legalities, but there are a lot of people wondering how Ray Boyd gets turned away, but McBerry gets to qualify as a Republican.

If the party remained silent, it would be condoning that behavior.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:18 pm

Excellent point!

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:52 am

Those “lots of people” are people who do not understand things like “state laws” that are in place that govern the concept of “qualifying.” And, I’ll bet most of those people are not even registered voters.

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:41 am

As I said, “I understand the legalities.” It’s nice that we’ve got a few leaders, that have a little courage, willing to speak out on McBerry. It helps blunt the perception that the State GOP is tough on the oath but not so tough on perverts.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:17 am

Yeahhh, well, I’m trying to figure out exactly why John Watson, who used to be the Finance Director of the state GOP, would be declaring that the qualifying money from Ray McBerry should be “given” to the victim and the family. The state party cannot just give money to anyone without there being a campaign-related legal reason to do so. What he thinks, apparently, is that the party should violate state ethics laws.

By Watson declaring this, he’s putting the party into a political bind. Is Watson connected with the Handel campaign in any way right now? Something smells kinda funny here.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 5:50 pm

I was at the debate when McBerry looked at the moderator, Jim Galloway, and yelled that the liberal media has told so many lies about him. He did not deny or say the handwritten letter was a lie, he did not deny that a restraining order had been issued against him by a sitting judge, he did not deny having a relationship with a student, he did not deny he lost his teaching job for sleeping with his student, and he did not deny being kicked out of his church.

Yes the restraining order case was dropped because the victim did not appear in court, and she should have followed it through, but she said she was ashamed and humilated in addition to being afraid of being around him. I can understand her reasons even though I feel she should have pursued legal action against him anyway.

Regardless of the victim’s actions, there is enough evidence, with the major pieces being his handwritten letter and the probable cause the judge used to issue the court order, to conclude that McBerry took advantage of a student in his class. Some criminals do “get off” for a variety of reasons but that doesn’t make them innocent, however, our system is based on the innocent until proven guilty premise. I feel our system failed the teen-age victim and allowed McBerry to slip through the cracks.

I applaud Karen’s actions and issue a challange not only to the gubernatorial candidates, but to all Republican candidates to refuse t0 be at the same location with McBerry for debates. Karen is not two-faced and has the courage to do what all the other candidates have failed to do, attack the ethical problems within the GOP. We must use peer pressure to clean up our own mess so we can prove to the citizens we mean what we say when we ask for their vote, and that we will not tolerate the status quo.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:00 pm

As for Deal, he attacked Karen by saying she was Sonny’s Chief of Staff and that Sonny is one of the eleven worst governors. Karen hasn’t been his Chief of Staff for the past eight years. I have never asked her why she left the governor’s office but she can address that issue if she so chooses. I am basing my decision to vote for Karen to be our next governor on her private and public record, how she plans to turn Georgia around, and her courage.

It is obvious Deal feels threatened by Karen over some guilt he must be feeling and that is a good thing because he knows he is losing his grip by his own actions. Karen is clearly the better candidate and he knows it.

macho May 1, 2010 at 6:15 pm

Karen was never his Chief of Staff.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:19 pm

I was repeating what Deal said. Any idea why he said that?

macho May 1, 2010 at 6:24 pm

Who knows. If I were Deal, I wouldn’t be bringing CREW up anymore. Just when the issue seems to go away for Deal, he throws it back into the spotlight. It’s about as comical as McBerry, issuing his letter, denying all the creepy stuff that nobody had heard about.

Just a quick bit of advice for budding politicians, don’t put out any “some people have said I’m a child perv, but I’m really not one” letters.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:36 pm

I totally agree with you.

Mozart May 1, 2010 at 6:48 pm

She was his Deputy Chief of Staff…which mean she carried-out everything the Governor and the Chief of Staff decided.

And…by the way…wasn’t John Watson Perdue’s Chief of Staff?

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:50 pm

I’d have to research it to be sure but I think you are right.

ConcernedGeorgian May 1, 2010 at 6:18 pm

There you go again Republican Lady (if you really are a Lady) twisting words. I don’t remember Deal saying that Handel was Perdue’s Chief of Staff, I thought he referenced her being on Sonny’s staff. And he didn’t freely call Perdue one of the worst governor’s. I think he was just making the point that the liberal Crew who targeted him also targeted Perdue. If Karen is going to believe everything that George Soros says, then she needs attack her former boss like she has attacked Deal.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:19 pm

And why wouldn’t I be a Lady?

ConcernedGeorgian May 1, 2010 at 6:26 pm

Just wonder sometimes.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 11:20 am

I don’t worry what people think about me so wonder away. I care what I think about me.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 6:31 pm

CG –

You can let that rest –

Republican Lady is very much a lady – attractive and bright.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 7:39 pm

Thanks! A compliment from someone who is not one of my students!

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:38 pm

http://www.karenhandel.com/site/c.nmL0KhN0LxH/b.5155895/k.ED40/Biography.htm

Following his upset victory in 2002, Governor Sonny Perdue tapped Karen to serve as Deputy Chief of Staff where she oversaw operations in the Capitol, the Governor’s Mansion and served as a senior policy advisor.

This is what I think Deal was referring to but in his angry tirad, mis-stated.

We can agree to disagree.

ReaganRepublican May 1, 2010 at 11:24 pm

There is a lot of talk that Handel used her KPMG acquired skills to broker Perdue’s notorious shady deal with Fourth Quarter Properties . She then went back to the well and got a $10,000 donation from them as commissioner of Fulton County.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 11:29 pm

And the site you are quoting is where?

ReaganRepublican May 2, 2010 at 1:17 am

Denial, Karen will soon be irrelevant. She may be there already.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 10:02 am

Again, the site where you are getting your information? Put up or shut up.

ByteMe May 2, 2010 at 11:07 am

Same site that’s still touting the Michelle Obama “Whitey” tape….

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 11:14 am

Hey you!

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 6:40 pm

RR – I seriously doubt that the late President Reagan would have made such accusations without directly questioning the candidate. Didn’t you mention a Biblical admonition earlier regarding confronting a person first. If the answers are not satisfactory, then it would be your responsibility to file an ethics complaint.

Do you believe that Sonny Perdue is a Georgia native and UGA Veterinary graduate, businessman, and would delegate his personal financial dealings to a staff member of any rank ?

ReaganRepublican May 2, 2010 at 7:14 pm

I have questioned the candidate and I did not like the response. More importantly, the Democrats are on to it and they will not be as nice as me.

http://www.georgiademocrat.org/node/1388

She does not have the experience, skill, education, or ability to raise money to take Roy Barnes on.

SFrazier May 3, 2010 at 10:29 am

I have a whole paper trail of her dealings sent to me by a Democrat. She is a Hypocrite. They are ready for her and licking their chops.

Republican Lady May 3, 2010 at 1:29 pm

Not even worth responding to.

ready2rumble May 1, 2010 at 6:09 pm

I just looked about both of Crew’s lists. The only person that’s on either one is Deal. Deal is the one who used the power of his office to make himself richer. If he wasn’t guilty why did he run from congress?

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:20 pm

Good question!

ConcernedGeorgian May 1, 2010 at 6:23 pm

http://www.citizensforethics.org/taxonomy/term/2062.

“The eleven governors who did make this list are, in not particular order are:

• Gov. Haley Barbour (R-MS);
• Gov. Donald Carcieri (R-RI);
• Gov. Jim Gibbons (R-NV);
• Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA);
• Gov. David Paterson (D-NY);
• Gov. Sonny Perdue (R-GA);
• Gov. Rick Perry (R-TX);
• Gov. Bill Richardson (D-NM);
• Gov. Mike Rounds (R-SD);
• Gov. Mark Sanford (R-SC); and
• Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-CA)”

macho May 1, 2010 at 6:27 pm

It’s funny how they attempt to be non-partisan by adding two Democrats. Gee, Patterson was a tough one to add.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:44 pm

True, but I think what Karen is saying is the party has to clean up its own mess by boycotting or having some penalty for the members who cannot police themselves. It is really ashamed that nine Republicans are on that list and you are probably right in saying the posters were trying to be nonpartisan by including two Dems, but as you know, the real issue is ETHICS. And we all know that certain people in our party totally have none. The voters are listening, we have to take some level of responsibility if our party is to keep the citizens voting and not sitting at home on election day.

Mozart May 1, 2010 at 6:50 pm

If you “boycott” then the entire stage goew to McBerry…and he can claim that he scared-off his opponents. Better to actually show-up and challenge him every time on his morality.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:56 pm

I see your point and it is a good one.

Doug Deal May 1, 2010 at 7:28 pm

No organizer, especially one with a young daughter, wants to be alone in an empty room with McBerry and a the sound guy. If the only other viable candidate showed some leadership, they would invite McBerry at their peril.

bowersville May 1, 2010 at 8:31 pm

No it doesn’t..it leaves those in attendance to walk out or heckle him off the stage so NORMAL non perverts can debate.

bowersville May 1, 2010 at 8:32 pm

Doug, my reply was to Mozart

Doug Deal May 1, 2010 at 9:26 pm

No problem, but that is a good idea.

Maybe if organizers don’t ban him, perhaps people can shout “off the stage McPervy” until he leaves.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:20 am

Too bad the Handel campaign won’t be there to participate in such heckling if it were to occur…their “fearless” leader has decided to run away from the problem rather than demonstrate she’s as “tough”as a man.

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:47 am

I think the point is to put pressure on some of the organizers of the events to deny McBerry access. And don’t say the event organizers aren’t allowed to pick and choose candidates. If they don’t want to have a debate with the top candidates, which is done all the time, they can implement a simple rule, “This debate is open to all qualified GOP candidates for Governor, except if you’ve had a restraining order against you, or were ever suspended from you job, for stalking a child.”

Harry May 1, 2010 at 6:47 pm

Yeah, Richardson was almost as tough as Patterson to add to that list!!

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:49 pm

Were you at the debate today?

Harry May 1, 2010 at 6:53 pm

RL you are absolutely correct. It all comes down to ethics, and unfortunately certain members of the legislative as well as the executive (federal and state) have not exactly covered themselves in glory. That’s all.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 6:58 pm

I hope I didn’t come across as attacking you because I wasn’t. I am starting to meet some of the posters and I would like to meet you at some point.

Harry May 1, 2010 at 7:00 pm

Well let’s do lunch! I’m putting out signs for Karen tomorrow btw.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 7:04 pm

Where?

Harry May 1, 2010 at 7:13 pm

I’m meeting the Handel sign coordinator tomorrow at around 2 pm on I-85, L’ville-Suwanee Rd. or thereabouts. Call me, 678-793-7858 and we can all grab a cup if you have time!

Jim Bob May 1, 2010 at 9:42 pm

Reminds me of a country song….”Wasted Days and Wasted Nights”…..

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 10:43 pm

Meaning?????????????

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 10:54 pm

Meaning??????????????

AlanR May 2, 2010 at 12:12 pm

No, that’s not all. When an organization like CREW can smear someone like Deal and severely injure his chance to become governor, that’s an ethics problem but its not Deal’s. CREW’s exec director is a career democrat who worked for Schumer for years. The rest of the staff is drawn from the same talent pool. Look at the list of governor’s — who picked, CREW or DNC? Any republicans on that list up for election this year?

And as for the congressional investigators — they decided to release their report the day Deal announced he would resign. And if you read the report, you’ll get a whole new idea of what really happened.

The whole congressional ethics effort is an incumbency protection plan. Once Deal is out, they take their best shot to prove their doing something. How they can do this to deal while the likes of Rangel and Mollohan are still heading committees is beyond belief. If Deal were still a member of congress, no report would have ever been issued and the congressional ethics committee would go at its usual break neck pace until nobody cared anymore. Its all about whose in congress and has the most power. Ethics has nothing to do with it.

Its shameful what’s happening to Deal.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 7:17 pm

A question remains:

Is the business operated by Rep. Deal and his associate(s) paid $100. per auto by the State of Georgia and all others in the same business paid $50. per auto ? YES or NO

If YES, why?
And who negotiated the contract?
Is it a public record?

Did the Lieutenant Governor play a part?

If NO, then maybe Rep. Deal should receive apologies and be off the hook.

I

ByteMe May 2, 2010 at 8:21 pm

You missed at least one question:

Did members of his Congressional staff — at Deal’s direction — secure one or more meetings between Casey Cagel, then-Rep. Deal, and the bureaucrat in charge of the program? At this meeting, was the no-bid contract discussed or mentioned in any way?

ByteMe May 2, 2010 at 8:36 pm

Oh, and one more: Do Deal’s donors knowingly approve of spending gubernatorial campaign cash — instead of Deal’s own personal money — on defending Deal from the charges made to the Congressional Ethics Committee? How exactly does defending against an ethics investigation into his current job ethics amount to an expense against a future campaign for another position?

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 9:40 pm

Excellent questions!

KariDee May 3, 2010 at 10:03 am

Amber, I answered this question several blogs ago, and directed it at you. Please go back and read it.

KariDee May 3, 2010 at 10:05 am

And no, they are NOT paid by the state, they are paid by the individual getting their automobile inspected…….NOT BY THE STATE. The state pays them NOTHING. Actually paid them NOTHING for the 20+ years they had the contract.

KariDee May 2, 2010 at 9:25 am

CREW is irrelevant…….an intrest group…….Nancy Pelosi driven…….please people!!

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:54 am

Ready,

Did you miss Sonny Perdue’s name by accident of on purpose?

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 7:04 pm

Mine is already up.

Jane May 1, 2010 at 7:35 pm

Is Karen from the Big Tent wing of the party or is it McBerry who has the “Big Tent”?

Just a joke, I think McBerry is a Creep.

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 1, 2010 at 8:24 pm

I think McBerry is on record as saying he wont salute the American flag. That would be my problem with him and the reasons for it.

As far as the other thing, was he tried and convicted of anything?

Cause if he wasn’t Karen just shot herself in the foot.

bowersville May 1, 2010 at 8:41 pm

No Ludwig he wasn’t. From what I have read and maybe you should read it too, the religious beliefs of the parents and the underage girl convinced them to allow the church to handle McBerry instead of utilizing the courts.

I believe differently. I believe man’s laws are for those that ignore God’s law.

But this isn’t exactly a religiuos arguement about that innocent girl’s religion, it’s about McBerry taking a child’s innocence.

Now, if the GaGOP wants to entertain perverts, well just say it.

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 1, 2010 at 9:03 pm

Wouldn’t that be up to a DA and not the church? I mean this isn’t Saudi Arabia. Yet.

If he’s guilty, cut his ball off, hell cut his throat. But I have never heard of a church checkmating a grand jury.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 11:11 pm

One of the problems with Catholic Priests not going to jail for molesting kids was church members complaining to Rome and wanting to let the Church handle discipline. It has only been very recently that the Pope gave permission for victims to contact their local police jurisdictions. Priests were counseled and reassigned but some of them continued being pedophiles.

I have interviewed pedophiles and victims for more years than I care to admit and the theme is common – the molesters convince the victims it is their fault and if they tell, they (the victims) will be the ones in trouble. It can destroy innocent lives if they don’t get professional help. Some parents get help for their kids, some don’t out of shame, fear, and embarrassment. Pedophiles count on this type of behavior to give them a pass.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:59 am

RL, this did not appear to involve the “Catholic Church,” but a sect of the Protestant variety. Which indicates the Catholic Church isn’t the only brand of Christianity that likes to cover-up child molestation.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 10:14 am

Mozart,

You are correct, it did not inolve the Catholic Church. I used that example of a strong based belief system that has had more than its share of problems with molestation to explain why some people turn to the church for help with these issues rather than the court system. I am not anti-religious, however, the problem is widespread through probably all religions and I feel that asking for forgiveness does not address the problems the way the courts can. While forgiveness is a very important part of the healing process, it does not address keeping a molester away from potential victims, the criminal justice system does that.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 10:21 am

And one other point. The victims sometimes feel they don’t want to get the person in trouble because too many assume responsibility that belongs to the offender, not the offended. A major problem with the criminal justice system is the way an incident is dragged out over months or even years rather than days or weeks. When a victim is in that much emotional and possibly physical pain, it can be overwhelming to think past the next five minutes.

NorthGeorgiaGirl May 1, 2010 at 11:18 pm

It is my understanding that McBerry’s dad is an assistant district attorney in Henry County…so, can anyone guess why the DA didn’t pursue it???

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 11:25 pm

I didn’t know that!!!!!!! That could explain why he is still walking the streets. Thanks for the info.

Doug Deal May 2, 2010 at 12:02 am

A reporter needs to contact the Flint (Henry County) DA and ask him if his office intervened or if his employee, McBerry’s father, acted in any inappropriate way to help his son.

If the answer is yes, there needs to be a grand jury investigation.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:56 am

Ludwig,

Even if the DA wanted to prosecute, he cannot prosecute without a witness willing to testify. There’s something about this requirement in that that weird old document called the “Constitution.” Some stupid concept called “due process.”

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:52 am

He was suspended from his job and had a restraining order against him. Admits to supplying the girl with a cell phone and special , so they could have secret conversations. It’s asking a lot of a little girl to go to court, accompanied with all the publicity of having an affair with a married high school teacher. So don’t hide behind the “tried and convicted.”

If I were that girl’s father I’d probably be doing time for shooting McBerry in the ass.

gatormathis May 2, 2010 at 10:38 am

“If I were that girl’s father I’d probably be doing time for shooting McBerry in the ass.”

……..maybe that is why the berrynator is so enamored with his GeorgiaCarry org……he might have decided long ago it was better to just “be prepared”……lol….

Bull Moose May 1, 2010 at 8:47 pm

It makes perfect sense for someone to not want to be on the same stage as an accused child molester. I am proud that Karen Handel was once again the adult on stage and called it what it was, as well as other ethical wrong doing. Others should do likewise. As Governor, you do have a moral responsibility to set an example and Karen demonstrated that today.

I Am Jacks Post May 1, 2010 at 11:23 pm

This message brought to you by Karen Handel staffer, Bull Moose. Dude, at least leave a disclaimer or something.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:23 am

Who is Bull Moose on Karen’s campaign?

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 10:33 am

Bull Moose,

Are you a grass-roots supporter of Karen’s or are you on her campaign?

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 11:26 pm

Totally agree with you Bull Moose.

Jim Bob May 2, 2010 at 11:00 am

A cop out for not being able to debate and think on her feet.

I agree with an earlier post which basically stated “show up and chastise him everytime”.

Mayonnaise May 1, 2010 at 10:07 pm

What a bunch of gullible pundits. Karen could of easily chose not to show up today and issue a statement concerning why. Nope, she wanted to grandstand and milk it for as much as she could. Very interesting that she waited until the very end to do it. Also, take a look at her face when Deal hammered back at her. She was almost in tears. Barnes will eat her lunch! She’s nothing more than a one-trick pony – “vote for me, I’m a women”.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 10:40 pm

You have so much to learn in such a short time.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:28 am

RL, why wouldn’t a “real woman” be able to demonstrate she’s emotionally ready to to deal with this type of situation just like Eric Johnson’s campaign did:

What Ray McBerry has been accused of doing is reprehensible and inexcusable.

“We would certainly support debate organizers choosing to exclude him from events.

“Eric is passionate about this state and his plans to put Georgia back to work and there is nobody that’s going to keep him from talking directly to the people of Georgia about his vision for the future.

“If others want to use this as an excuse to duck debates and tough questions, that’s fine.”

Is the Handel campaign just going to cover their eyes, their ears, and duct tape their mouths shut to deal with this? That’s how they’re doing it with this strategy.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 10:45 am

Point taken, how would you advise her on this issue?

I don’t work for Karen so I’m not privy to her inner circle conversations and how her campaign staff are developing their strategy. I do support her by going to the debates to hear what she and other candidates have to say and by putting her sign in my yard.

I can see both sides of the issue about being with McBerry on stage and I feel her anger with the Republican Party basically saying, “As long as they sign the pledge so we can take their money, we are not going to tell them how to behave.”

The party has to restore the public’s faith and trust because if they see the party accepting McBerry, then the other candidates are guilty by association, and they all are tainted even if they disagree with the party’s stance on McBerry.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 11:08 am

Unfortunately, RL, while I see your point here regarding how the Republican Party should have some kinda rules to deal with this, the fact is that, unfortunately, they have no such rules in place. Without rules in place, then they cannot act as you wish them to be able to act. If they do, then they set themselves up to be successfully sued in court. Because “courts” have to interpret the law based on how the laws exist.

Also, as much of an emotional response as we all have about this, the fact is that Jeff Chapman is correct: McBerry is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That’s the society we have agreed to live in, as a “rule of law” based society. If you want to toss aside the rule of law in this case, where are you going to stop?

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 11:40 am

You make many good points and we can’t toss the legal concepts aside nor should we. I was addressing those who may not understand why the victim and her family chose to go through the church rather than the legal system.

One thing I have learned about pedophiles in my years of experience, research, and education, is there is never just one victim. Once McBerry and others of his ilk feel they have a pass on prosecution, they will re-offend. The sad part, is another future victim will have to go through the horror of being victimized. Hopefully though, it will be the type of victim whose family will go to the ends of the earth to prosecute the offender.

In McBerry’s case, when he does this again, and there is a strong statistical chance he will, it will be front page news. The Bible warns that wolves in sheep’s clothing are in the Church, he is an example of that wolf.

macho May 2, 2010 at 10:49 am

It will be an interesting contrast. All the men on stage with the creepy child perv, and the woman not there. At least Barnes will have some great “thumbs up” pictures of all the men on stage. Sometimes, you just have to draw a line. Kind of like inviting terrorists to the White House for a cup of coffee and a conversation.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 11:17 am

Ohhh…so, if someone happens to be in a picture with a scumbag, then that impugns that person’s character as “going along with what the scumbag did?”

I point you to Otter’s famous speech in Animal House:

Otter: “But you can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg – isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!” [hum along here to the tune of the Star-Spangled Banner]

So, macho, if there is one scumbag in any picture of any people anywhere, are all of the people in that picture….nay, all of AMERICA guilty of associating with the scumbag?

ready2rumble May 2, 2010 at 11:38 am

Mozart,
You leave out the part that this was is the quote that a staffer provided after Handel made her remarks. If Johnson was a real leader where were his comments or stance on McBerry before Handel took her stand.

Johnson has been and will always be week on ethics.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:01 pm

Ready,

And, where is that identical stance you have on Dan McGlagan’s speaking for Karen in this AJC blog:

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/04/30/ray-mcberry-makes-karen-handel-very-uncomfortable/?cxntfid=blogs_political_insider_jim_galloway

Tell me, did the Handel campaign call Jim Galloway and say “Hey, Jimmmm…we got something to say that will look good on your blog….”? Sure looks like it, Ready.

ready2rumble May 2, 2010 at 12:24 pm

Mozart,
Nice try. I’m not sure how the press works. But I bet that Galloway called all the campaigns looking for a comment on Friday. Only one campaign responded, it was Handel’s. Yes it was through a staffer.

On Saturday she did it herself.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:35 pm

Ready,

You “bet?” I don’t bet anything. Not when it comes to the AJC-WSBTV Conglomerate of Misinformation.

What was the exact question you surmise that Galloway asked “all the campaigns?”

Pine Knot May 1, 2010 at 11:12 pm

Good point. Another front page post by the one who loves to hammer Deal, and lift up the annointed one. Barnes will eat her lunch is right. Nathan Deal has shown that he is the best canidate in the general election for the last two months against Barnes.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 11:13 pm

I don’t recall her saying, “vote for me, I’m a women.” Was that in the first part of her speech, the middle, or the end?

Pine Knot May 1, 2010 at 11:20 pm

No she never said that, and I never said that she did, but we need to beat OX, and our ultimate goal should be to beat king roy. Deal has polled very consistently as the one who has the best chance to do that.

Republican Lady May 1, 2010 at 11:32 pm

You didn’t say it PK, Mayo did and the three of us will never agree. So we can agree to disagree.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 1:01 am

“Agree to disagree” sounds like a politically correct way to disagree.

B Balz May 3, 2010 at 1:52 pm

Actually, “agreeing to disagree” is a more pleasant way of saying, “Kiss my Mothers A**, and go straight to H**”

RL that quote precedes your time here, came from a Macon official having a bad day.

Republican Lady May 3, 2010 at 7:33 pm

Oops!

Jim Bob May 3, 2010 at 7:54 pm

I like it, though.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:30 am

RL, she inferred it several months ago when she painted the whole House with a broad paintbrush of them all being men who cheat on their spouses and engage in the type of unethical behavior that Glenn Richardson did.

Mayonnaise May 1, 2010 at 11:23 pm

All of the above.

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:54 am

It’s interesting that taking a stand on McBerry is considered grandstanding. Whatever excuse you got I suppose. I guess it would have been grandstanding to take a stand on Richardson as well.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:35 am

We’ll know if its grandstanding if Handel goes around the state stating that she was the only one who refuses to appear with McBerry. If she sticks it in a mailer or in a TV ad that “I’m the only one who couldn’t face down the pervert in forums”, you will know it is grandstanding. We will all know it is just a grandstanding ploy.

I’ll bet you that right now the Handel campaign is trying to get pictures taken with the victim and her family to show how “compassionate” Karen is. More like political animal…just like the Ox is.

macho May 2, 2010 at 10:51 am

I don’t have any problem with her pointing out that the other candidates had no problem hanging out with McBerry. I wonder where they would draw the line, would any of the other men accept girl scout cookies form him?

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 11:20 am

They’re not “hanging out” with him, macho. They are in a political debate and a political race. If you see them talking and laughing it up with him, then, yeah, maybe you got a point.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 7:43 pm

You misunderstood. Karen Handel is not into drama, contrivance, or public tears over the comments of an opponent.

Who would expect a Southern gentleman such as Roy Barnes to act any way other than with good manners during the campaign ?

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 2, 2010 at 6:56 am

I read an alleged letter he wrote to the girls family. Weird stuff. But some of you people are scary. We have a system in this country like it or not and “accused” doesn’t mean “convicted” whenever you find it politically expedient.

And that goes for someone like Handel that wants to carry the mantle of justice. She is demonstrating she can and will circumvent the constitutional process of justice in my opinion when I lay my personal opinion about McBerry aside.

And that is, I don’t like the guy.

If he is guilty after due process then he should go to jail and have a mud bog stomped in his ass, but it aint for Karen Handel to decide that at this point. We are looking for a Governor, not a Dictator.

She’s not making this state any safer with this. Looks like more ethics grandstanding. If you want to talk the talk and walk the walk about ethics, uphold due process . Even when it is hard.

benevolus May 2, 2010 at 9:14 am

There are lots of relationship crimes that go unpunished because there are no witnesses and often no physical evidence. But you say you have read the letter, so isn’t it clear he is admitting to something inappropriate? I don’t think there is any dispute that he met with her alone, the only question is what happened. But even just the meeting is inappropriate.

By the way, I feel the same about Carl Camon. He may or may not have done anything illegal, but there are too many student complaints about him to ignore. We should reject candidates for public office that have something like that on their record.

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 2, 2010 at 9:35 am

We should respect innocent until proven guilty. We know some slip though the cracks. Like OJ. But it is the only system we have.

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 2, 2010 at 9:36 am

BTW, it later worked with OJ

macho May 2, 2010 at 10:52 am

Not really. He still plays a lot of golf for a double murderer.

benevolus May 2, 2010 at 9:42 am

Ox is innocent.

ByteMe May 2, 2010 at 9:52 am

He is certainly “legally innocent” until proven “legally guilty”, but that doesn’t mean that he needs to be treated as “morally/ethically innocent”.

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:59 am

A good point. I wish people would quite trying to defend McBerry and agree that whether the teacher has sexual relations or not, a relationship that requires the teacher to furnish a secret cell phone and software to the teenager, is creepy no matter how you slice it. The guy should not be running for Governor.

benevolus May 2, 2010 at 10:10 am

That is the point I was trying to make Byte. (I think I am guilty of being overly succinct.)

If McBerry is “innocent”, then by whatever standard is being used, so is Ox, and presumably pretty much anyone else who hasn’t actually done some time.

There is a gray area between “innocent” and “free pass”. We can say “leave it up to the voters”, but the other candidates get to stake out their positions, and their choices will ultimately be left up to the voters.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 10:27 am

Benevolus,

You said it better than I did and thanks for doing that.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:37 am

I’m sorry, but have I missed something? Has Ox been accused of having a relationship with an under aged girl?

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 2, 2010 at 10:45 am

It does until he is proven guilty. What it means is that you don’t have to drink a beer with him. It is like I believe the Gators are morally and ethically wrong most of the time but they haven’t been convicted of anything like the Seminoles often are. And I don’t have to drink a beer with them .

ByteMe May 2, 2010 at 11:15 am

I forgive you for not knowing about the 100+ infractions they were found guilty of in 1984.

And, no, no one has to treat someone as being “morally/ethically innocent” when he admittedly did something seriously creepy with an under-aged girl (that forced him out of his chosen profession) just because the parents and child chose not to get the law involved.

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 2, 2010 at 8:17 pm

where is seriously creepy defined in law?

ByteMe May 2, 2010 at 8:23 pm

Didn’t say it was, did I? You keep trying to make this about “legal” and I’m sure every other person out here has a sufficiently developed moral compass to get that what McBerry did was wrong on so many levels that a legal verdict is not needed to render a moral verdict.

AlanR May 2, 2010 at 2:01 pm

Right. Its not a legal issue of guilt, its a political issue of character. Every candidate gets some scrutiny concerning character. Some more than others because the media often decides what to play up. In some cases, we get to judge for ourselves by looking at things like the letter.

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:55 am

He had a restraining order against him. Hopefully you don’t have a daughter.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:11 pm

I doubt you do, macho. You still write like you’re around…24 years old, I suspect, and employed by the Handel campaign as a propaganda blogger.

Georgia Judge May 2, 2010 at 8:43 am

McBerry is obviously a freak and having a daughter I would have handled it much differently,and there would have been no church officials needed(well maybe afterwards),but this grandstanding on Handel’s part.

There are two candiates that can beat Roy ,Johnson and Deal. Ox will make the runoff and one of these two need to beat him.

B Balz May 2, 2010 at 9:51 am

“…There are two candiates (sp) that can beat Roy ,Johnson and Deal. Ox will make the runoff and one of these two need to beat him….

WHAT??? No ‘pushback’ for making this assertion? Tyler and Ick must still be working off adverse effects of the roadshow, if any. (;>). BTW, I agree.

In the sound byte world voters respond to, being under the hot lights facing a seasoned political debate pugilist like Rep. Deal is going to be a challenge for all the nominees. Unless genteel Rep. Johnson may be able to win on “Jobs, jobs, jobs”, your scenario may come to fruition.

With Rep. Scott out of the gubernatorial race ~great sadness~ it ought to be pretty obvious that king roy is going to verbally spar with trial lawyer Rep. Deal.

The Governors race might end up like the Scopes trial, two learned and fiery Southern trial lawyers plying their craft, each a Pol heavyweight, with an engaged public hanging on every syllable.

kyleinatl May 2, 2010 at 10:07 am

I said it months ago, and I’m still sticking with it…only Deal can take Barnes on in a debate, the rest of the candidates are going to have their asses handed to them.

SouthGAConservative May 2, 2010 at 3:25 pm

I don’t see how Deal can beat Barnes. He won’t shut up about his own ethics issues and CREW and so on. It seems to me he will get up there against Barnes and shoot himself in the foot. Not to mention, he’s already gotten fired up easily at previous events which didn’t go over all that well, Barnes knows this and will easily push those buttons to shake Deal up.

macho May 2, 2010 at 9:56 am

I think the only two candidates who can beat Barnes are Handel and Johnson. Deal is toast over all the ethics stuff. Barnes will have a field day over it. Ox goes without saying.

KariDee May 4, 2010 at 12:05 pm

You think Barnes doesn’t have issues of his own?

ByteMe May 4, 2010 at 12:20 pm

Just with Republicans and flaggers. Teachers aren’t as P-O’ed at him now that Republicans tried to go after them this session.

B Balz May 4, 2010 at 12:41 pm

You are the first one I have seen to comment about the teachers and the last Session. Thought the same thing.

I gotta a feeling that this gov. race is going to be a doozie. A real political slug-fest for the Dems V. GOP this year.

Popcorn and M&M’s…

ByteMe May 4, 2010 at 12:46 pm

I think it’ll come down to which Republican wins the primary. The more damaged the Republican in relation to the “flexible ethics” meme, the closer this race is going to be in the Fall.

B Balz May 4, 2010 at 1:25 pm

No doubt the Dems will soon be ‘war gaming’ their messaging based on who wins the primary.

For example, if Ms. Handel wins the
primary, ethics may be less of a front-burner issue. Ms. Handel presents well on ethics.

For all the criticism Ms. Handel is getting about her position on ‘the man who has no shame and whose name I shall never type again’, voters I have spoken to view her position positively. At least she stood up and took a position. GOOD.

Unfortunately, she also stood up and painted the entire general assembly with the ‘glen-ugly-brush’

Damage: To Be Determined.

If the Ox or Rep. Deal wins the primary, we are going to see the ethics fireworks explode like a middle aged man involved in a …well, I digress.

Both gentlemen will protest any ethics breach and that scenario is probably a big plus for the Dems, regardless who prevails between them.

As others have shared with me, “Austin Scott for Congress” may shift the ‘below-the-gnat-line’ vote to ‘u-pick ‘em’ Rep(s). Chapman or Johnson. I don’t think Ms. Handel is gonna to carry down there for a variety of reasons. As well, the calculus may provide enough votes up here for it not to matter.

Ox’s is still the polling front runner, counting him out as the GOP nominee is not prudent. Last January, we postulated if Ox and King Roy are standing in November, it may not end well for the home team.

Too soon yet to know.

ByteMe May 4, 2010 at 1:40 pm

Chapman’s a non-factor and Johnson has the problem of having all those votes he’s made in the legislature, some of which might not have turned out so well. I think he’s still in the mix, but name ID isn’t high enough with only 2 months to go.

Yes, it’s too soon to know, especially since the big guns of negative ads haven’t really gotten aimed at the front-runners yet.

Popcorn. Definitely popcorn.

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 2, 2010 at 9:08 am

Judge I agree about the grandstanding by Handel but,we get more of the same old insider look the other way at corruption crap with Johnson. And Deal? Worse. Republicans better wake up.

I keep thinking God will take Ox out of the race. If his kid doesn’t shoot him first.

Game Fan May 2, 2010 at 10:23 am

So Karen “push the glass” Handel waits for the results of a paper ballot straw poll to distance herself from McBerry? And the outrage over “ghetto grandmothers” Deal is all but gone as the status quo can hardly contain their glee at Austin Scott withdrawing from the Governor’s race. Oh the irony.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 10:39 am

+25 points

Georgia Judge May 2, 2010 at 10:45 am

So Handel rushes out and makes this statement,but what does she do if infact McBerry is allowed to continue to participate at events?Will she really not show up at events?I mean lets be real here everyone would agree that the other candidates most likely have the same opinion of McBerry with the exception of Chapman and he is irrelevant anyway. Handel has put herself in a box if in fact the Party doesnt act ,which is probably what will happen for legal reasons.

macho May 2, 2010 at 11:07 am

She hasn’t put herself in any box. The future debate organizers have a choice of a bunch of dudes up on stage with a child perv or have the top candidates for Governor on stage without a child perv.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 11:52 am

You are right, the debate organizers decide on who to invite and the voters will be watching to see how the organizers handle the invitations. If enough of the listening audience don’t want to hear or see McBerry, then it won’t be financially feasible to invite him.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:14 pm

Did it cost money for anyone to attend the 6th District event? If not, your “financialy feasible” comment will have no bearing.

Personally, I want to see McBerry show-up and face people who will tell him to his face how shameful it is what he did.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 1:43 pm

Attendance was free. Lunch was not. Seemed fair to me.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 9:54 pm

Mozart,

The church had expenses, like paying the numerous police officers to provide security as well as the private security that was everywhere inside, and maybe some of the workers who were not volunteers as well as paying in advance for food that might or might not sell, in addition to the electrical expenses for air conditioning and having the lights on are the financial costs I was referring to in my “financially feasible” comments. I doubt all those people, especially the police officers, donated their time. I also doubt the food service provided its products for free.

girlygrrll May 2, 2010 at 11:07 am

Ray McBerry is a pervert. I will never again give him the time of day and am committed to letting Georgians know about his taste for children, when the issue comes up.
I am disgusted with the state GOP for allowing this pervert run as a Republican. This will not be forgotten.

gatormathis May 2, 2010 at 11:16 am

…..maybe we should call him …Ray …”wanna playy???”… McBerry……..

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 11:24 am

The state GOP is bound by law, Girly. Do you like living in a rule of law country or not?

macho May 2, 2010 at 12:08 pm

That State Party had to, by law, allow him on the ballot. I just wish more of the candidates would take a stand on McBerry. If the all boycott him, then the pressure will ratchet up. Instead, they are saying innocent until proven guilty or I don’t agree with what he did, but I sure as hell am not going to do anything about it.

I guess whatever it takes to not rock the boat, don’t want to give up a few McBerry voters in the runoff.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:19 pm

Once again, macho, you speak of nonsense. Apparently the Handel campaign is hurting for money so bad that the only way they can figure out how to make it appear as though they are better is to take the following steps:

1) Act like it is an ordeal to face McBerry, and tell people she will not participate in a debate.
2) Challenge others not to participate by implying they support Ray if they do show-up.
3) If no one shows-up to debate Ray, then no one but Ray gets a platform.

Great plan. So glad we have a “leader” like Karen Handel willing to take-on tough issues and tough circumstances by avoiding them.

ready2rumble May 2, 2010 at 12:31 pm

Mozart,
True leaders take a stand. There is only one person who took a stand on McBerry – Handel.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:41 pm

Ready,

So, “taking a stand” is running away nowadays? Good to know your perspective.

Jim Bob May 2, 2010 at 5:17 pm

Handel took a stand not to debate because she can’t hang with the rest of the folks on the stage. She can’t think fast enough on her feet, which is why she is bailing out.

If Georgia were to be so unfortunate that the electorate were so dazed and confuzed that they gave her the primary nod, then my guess is she will find something else to get out of the debates with Barnes.

Jim Bob May 2, 2010 at 5:18 pm

Kind of like she took a stand on domestic partners???

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 5:36 pm

Site?

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 5:50 pm

Site please?

macho May 2, 2010 at 12:57 pm

The idea is that if the lead candidates for Governor choose to boycott debates with McBerry, that the organizations will quit inviting McBerry.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 6:06 pm

You mean the “lead candidates” who are all leading Karen in the race?

Georgia Judge May 2, 2010 at 11:23 am

Macho,
She should have taken the approach of calling him out at each opportunity,instead of choosing this path.

And,btw one of those dudes will be your next Governor.

macho May 2, 2010 at 12:12 pm

Sometimes you have to draw a line. Perhaps she should have spoken out earlier, but I’m proud of her for taking a stand.

I mentioned the word “dude,” because of the unique contrast of having all the men join with McBerry on stage, and only the woman taking a stand against that sleeze bag. Don’t be so sure that one of those dudes will be the next Governor. I’m sure Barnes will place the photo of Johnson and McBerry, on stage together, right next to the Confederate flag photo of Johnson.

You watch, obviously Barnes isn’t going to mention too much about Handel now, because his campaign is most afraid of her, but if Johnson is the nominee, Barnes will be singing Handel’s praises on this move. Talking about how she was the only one who had the courage. He’ll make the analogy of McBerry to Johnson taking the pass on Richardson in ethics. I could go on and on, just like shooting fish in a barrel.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 12:23 pm

If Roy Barnes is dumb enough to open his mouth, anyone with half a brain can shut it by asking why he did not offer a “leadership view” of the issue? After all, Ray McBerry is running for Governor. Primary or not, a man like McBerry running for governor should cross all lines of political party stances as being wrong.

Macho, your logic just isn’t going to take hold.

macho May 2, 2010 at 12:54 pm

If I were Barnes, and McBerry was the GOP Nominee for Governor, I would refuse to be on stage with him.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 2:10 pm

Thank goodness this world is not dominated by people of such little backbone as you to be able to stand-up and call a spade a spade.

B Balz May 2, 2010 at 4:13 pm

I prefer calling a spade a shovel.

macho May 2, 2010 at 12:53 pm

Here are the facts that are not up for dispute.

1. McBerry gave the girl a cell phone, so they could have conversations without her parents’ knowledge.

2. McBerry was reprimanded for the relationship; by the state agency that regulates teachers.

3. McBerry had a restraining order against him, banning him from coming within a certain distance of the girl.

Because of the previous, undisputed facts, can we all agree on the following:

1. Whether or not the girl wanted to subject herself to the embarrassment of a court trial, shouldn’t be the sole standard by which we judge a candidate for Governor.

2. It’s creepy.

3. Ray just needs to take “Running for Governor” off of his bucket list.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 1:01 pm

Total agreement, macho. But, how does Karen make sure these points get across to Ray McBerry if she is not willing to face him everywhere he is on the stage? People are not going to remember why she doesn’t show-up. I think the old saying is ‘Out of sight, out of mind.”

macho May 2, 2010 at 2:58 pm

Look, I’m a Handel supporter, that part is probably obvious by now. Forgetting about whether the right thing to do is to attend debates with McBerry or boycott them, from a pure machiavellian, objective point-of-view, she’s going to get a lot of earned media out of this. If for some reason, there is a major debate, that still invited McBerry after her boycott, Handel will get more earned media for not attending, then she ever would from the debate itself.

I think it’s the right thing to do, but I also think it’s brilliant on her part.

Ludwig Von Beachbum May 2, 2010 at 3:01 pm

This is ridiculous, she shot herself in the foot. She could have got Ox’s kid to do it, but she did.

macho May 2, 2010 at 3:12 pm

To expound a little more about what I said. As far as rhetoric, there isn’t a whole lot of difference between the candidates. From a writers, and ability to sell newspapers, standpoint – that’s boring. The general public really has a very low tolerance for getting in-depth on the issues. Why do you think they argue about abortion and gay rights in races like SOS.

Now you’ve got a GOP Candidate, albeit minor candidate, running for Governor. He’s had some really strange and creepy stuff going on with a 16 year old girl, while he was married and a teacher at her school. That’s interesting. People can understand that. Is he a pervert or isn’t he a pervert. Now you have a candidate that decides to boycott him, that’s interesting as well. Easy to write about. Then you interview the other candidates: “What are the candidates reactions”, “Are they going to boycott him”, etc…

Just salacious enough to be interesting and simple enough to comprehend; the perfect story.

Jeff May 2, 2010 at 3:16 pm

Macho:

He was never a teacher at her school. He tried to get her to change schools to come to his school, but she would not – in part because about the time he did that is when her parents began to learn the full extent of the relationship.

macho May 2, 2010 at 3:26 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Still a salacious story.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 4:03 pm

And, macho gets yet another story flat wrong. They keep adding up.

macho May 2, 2010 at 4:12 pm

I don’t really think whether McBerry had the child as a student or not, really has any bearing as to the overall “sleazyness” of the situation.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 8:17 pm

Macho is not exactly “flat wrong”. He and his former wife were the youth counselors at her church. Has anyone mentioned the reason for the divorce from first wife after the “relationship” began ?

AlanR May 3, 2010 at 2:44 am

I hope not. I really, really hope not.

Can we get back to how much the state pays Deal for each car now?

Doug Grammer May 3, 2010 at 11:13 am

The technically correct answer is zero. The state didn’t pay anything. The consumers paid $100 per car. Did they do their job as consumers and check the other locations prices? I don’t know.

ByteMe May 3, 2010 at 11:41 am

Were they allowed to? My understanding is that the cars going there were wrecked, which makes it hard to get a second opinion on them.

Icarus May 3, 2010 at 11:55 am

As for the “consumers” checking prices, that’s a total smokescreen.

There were only four of these centers authorized in the state. None were near metro areas, and Deal’s was the only one even near Metro Atlanta.

The “consumer” could choose to have gone to somewhere near Statesboro instead of Gainesville, but that would hardly justify saving the $50.

The problem here Doug is that Deal benefitted from the state mandating an inspection, then restricting the number of inspection stations.

It was when the Dept of Revenue tried to expand the number of stations, change the program, and actually put Deal’s “don’t call it a contract, it’s just a wink-wink nod-nod agreement” arrangement in writing to conforming standards that he objected, and inappropriately used Congressional staff and resources to protect his state mandated monopoly.

Doug Grammer May 3, 2010 at 1:38 pm

Charlie,

It’s a minor point, but there were more than four stations across Georgia. Checks you facts when you are crucifying. It’s OK if you don’t like supply and demand. They were only mandated if you wanted to take a vehicle with a salvaged title back on the road. If the program was so bad, why did it go on for almost 20 years before CREW started to object to it? Congressman Deal objected when the new program only dealt with money and not with safety. He could have kept his “state mandated monopoly” business going under the new guidelines and made more money. It’s still up for debate that it was inappropriate for Congressman Deal to use his campaign staff to look into a situation that could help protect the safety of the drivers of Georgia’s rebuilt vehicles.

I know you wouldn’t leave a detail out that the OCE report DID NOT have a conclusion of guilty but did recommend further review on purpose. You wouldn’t twist things or miscontrue or make up facts on purpose, would you?

BTW, Recovery Services, hosted more than 2,800 inspections in 2008. Across the state, Georgia inspectors conducted more than 17,000 safety checks in 2008. That’s hardly one fourth.

ready2rumble May 2, 2010 at 1:15 pm

Mozart,
All the rest will been “known by the company they keep” – McBerry.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 1:22 pm

Ready,

Nice try. Not right, though. If Karen really feels the way you say she does, then she should opt out of the Governor’s race entirely since it was the “system” that allowed McBerry to become qualified for office, and therefore she should protest the entire system of “innocent until proven guilty”, right?

The GOP cannot throw him off the ballot. By Karen even remaining on the ballot means, by your logic, that she is perfectly willing to be associated with McBerry as a fellow Republican.

Jim Bob May 2, 2010 at 5:05 pm

Funny, Dan. Your gal ain’t got what it takes, which is the real reason she is bailing out of the debates.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 5:40 pm

Matter of opinion dear.

Republican Lady May 2, 2010 at 5:51 pm

Merely opinion.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 2:15 pm

I was there. I heard and saw the whole thing. (Well, to be 100% honest, I heard most of the comments by the Gov. candidates and all of their closing remarks.)

What I found interesting that the issue of ethics didn’t come up until the closing remarks. Sec. Handel was NOT the only candidate to mention ethics in closing remarks. They went from left to right, and I think, oddly enough, it was McBerry who mentioned the congressional ethics committee first. Sen. Johnson touched on it and then it was Sec. Handle’s turn.

She made two separate references to ethics. She made her statement on McBerry, and even though she didn’t call on him by name, it was obvious that she was laying into Congressman Deal. She used the word “report.”

Deal asked that if she put so much stock into a report started by a group funded by George Sorros, why wasn’t she speaking about a report that came out about Sonny Purdue this week by the same group? Was it because it might reflect on when she was working for him?

As for McBerry, I won’t go though all of the negative things about him. I don’t support any of them, and they’ve already been talked about. I find the fact that I have heard him personally say that he won’t salute the American flag just bizarre. I’ll just say that I trust the Republican primary voters of Georgia to figure put who will be the best Republican nominee for Governor.

A few questions that I haven’t seen asked yet: If Sec. Handle knew she was going to make her statement about not being on stage with McBerry at the end, why didn’t she just use her time on her first question to make the remark and then walk off? She may not have known she was going to make it and it maybe have been an emotional reaction, (as opposed to a political one.) If it was a political move, did she wait until the end to leave a lasting impression or to not allow any rebuttal? Congressman Deal spoke after her, so he got his chance to rebut.

macho May 2, 2010 at 3:02 pm

Doug-

I think it’s because she committed to McClearly and the 6th District folks. She was essentially putting future debates and rallies on notice about the McBerry situation, but knew how hard the 6th district folks had previously worked to put the debate together. They relied, in part, on her prior commitment.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 3:25 pm

That’s a good answer.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 3:24 pm

My apologies on misspelling Sec. Handel’s name twice. Spell check didn’t catch it.

B Balz May 2, 2010 at 4:17 pm

Regrets I could not make it. Iwas looking forward to the Dunwoody Police pulling my loud butt out, it being on TV, all with PP carrying the lead. But I digress.

Per Mr. Grammer, “…Deal asked that if she put so much stock into a report started by a group funded by George Sorros, why wasn’t she speaking about a report that came out about Sonny Purdue this week by the same group? Was it because it might reflect on when she was working for him?…”

That is pure pol genius on Rep. Deal’s part.

Y’all are kidding yourselves, voters see that.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 8:28 pm

What kind of genious does Rep. Deal reflect by continuing to refer to Mr. Soros, rather than the details of his business dealings compared other Georgians in the same business? His conversations would be much shorter.

KariDee May 4, 2010 at 12:15 pm

Ambernappe…….I am covinced at this point that you are ignorant……watch the news conference from WEEKS ago on Youtube or read what Doug Grammer has to say…… I am sick of answering your same questions over and over and over.

Lady Thinker May 4, 2010 at 11:26 pm

That is rude KariDee. Maybe you need a timeout to think about calling people names.

KariDee May 5, 2010 at 2:05 pm

I don’t recall calling anyone names……reread my post, or maybe you have the same problem as Ambernappe…..with the whole reading thing.

KariDee May 5, 2010 at 2:08 pm

If you are referring to me suggesting that Ambernappe is ignorant, I was making an observation…. something you railed on and on about several blogs ago……so you should know all about that.

Lady Thinker May 6, 2010 at 12:15 am

Ignore

Lady Thinker May 6, 2010 at 12:16 am

You have been placed in ignore.

ByteMe May 6, 2010 at 8:33 am

Isn’t that a great feature of the site? :)

polisavvy May 6, 2010 at 9:09 am

Some people are not worthy enough for engagement. :) (Present company excluded).

KariDee May 6, 2010 at 12:04 pm

I care?

Doug Grammer May 6, 2010 at 12:09 pm

Kari,

If you are going to debate on here, you need to do better that two word rhetorical questions.

Provocateur May 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm

Shorter, better.

polisavvy May 6, 2010 at 1:18 pm

I agree with you, Doug. Provocateur — in her case “less is more.”

KariDee May 6, 2010 at 2:30 pm

Sorry Doug. I could talk till I’m blue in the face to LT and Ambernappe, but it doesn’t seem to matter……I have answered the same question from Ambernappe at least three times. At this point a two word rhetorical question is all I can mussey up for either of the two of them…….or I could just use LTs infamous….whatever, which is only one word.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 5:19 pm

According to Game Fan, she waited until the results of the straw poll to decide to make her “Well! If that’s the way you’re all going to play, then I’m leaving and I’m not ever coming back! So there!” speech.

Miss T May 2, 2010 at 2:52 pm

The AJC article gives the straw poll results to the LaGrange Forum held by the LaGrange Patriots (A.K.A. The Tea Party). It was not surprising to me at all that McBerry won their straw poll. I am not saying this to make a dig at the Tea Party. I am saying that there is a strong move for state’s rights among that group and McBerry sings that from the roof tops. I was present for that debate and if I am totally honest, Johnson gave the best show. Karen Handel was a close second. The poll didn’t reflect that. Again, it is the audience that you are playing to and that is obvious since McBerry went back down to a whopping two votes in the last straw poll. Kuddos to Karen for taking a stand and shame on Eric Johnson for refusing to be a leader.

ready2rumble May 2, 2010 at 2:54 pm

The always neutral Doug Grammer. Interesting how you try to turn this into a gender issue – “was it an emotional reaction”.

Deal rebut? All he did was attack Sonny.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 3:01 pm

Emotion is not limited to gender, but it’s nice of you to try to spin it that way. I aslo notice you didn’t answer my questions. Congressman Deal didn’t attack Sonny, another nice spin, he pointed out that the report about him is just as useless as the one about Sonny. If others are going to put stock in one report, why aren’t they putting stock in the other?

macho May 2, 2010 at 3:03 pm

If I were Deal, I’d stop bringing up CREW.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 3:43 pm

He didn’t bring it up. Should he leave it out and say nothing when others bring it up? I wouldn’t if I were him.

B Balz May 2, 2010 at 4:18 pm

Don’t let folks egg you on, Doug.

SouthGAConservative May 2, 2010 at 3:37 pm

Ok, here’s the thing about the Johnson vs. Handel debate:
Neither reaction is a full win.

Handel took a stand but now she will arguably miss chances to meet with and see voters and very popular events like debates. Not to mention, this is a key time for such events. But, she does get to say she called him out and yes, it was what a lot of us are thinking.

Johnson did submit a letter, albeit afterwards, but he’s still going to have access to those voters and focus on them through his campaign, not stress about McBerry’s crap behavior. He can say he’s focused on jobs and Georgia especially since McBerry is a bottom tier candidate meant to take percentage points. (Which is another reason to push McBerry out so R’s can focus their spending on a general election and not have it diverted for a runoff!)

So, Handel misses opportunities/looks like a coward running off maybe. Johnson looks weak because he didn’t call him out but gets those opportunities with voters and possibly to call McBerry out onstage.

Like I said, neither was a full win.

But one more thing: Sonny took the stance in 06 to ignore McBerry because giving him attention gives him more credit as a candidate and brings him more media. I’m thinking Johnson and probably some of the other candidates are taking the same approach.

He’s nothing but a percentage stealer and no one wants to get his message out by handing him more media. So hopefully, something can happen and he can be fully kicked off the ballot, anything in between ignoring him and that, seems to give him attention. Though again, this is a big deal and what he did is terrible.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 3:39 pm

This is exactly what Sec. Handel said in her closing remarks:

http://sharing.theflip.com/session/5698dcc5cd648230086279bbdc7043c6/video/13385595

I’ll see if I can find more from the other campaigns.

Doug Grammer May 2, 2010 at 4:30 pm

I should be able to get video on Deal’s reply tomorrow.

Doug Grammer May 3, 2010 at 10:31 pm

I was promised the link and haven’t got it yet….

Doug Grammer May 4, 2010 at 10:43 am

I’ve been told the audio was bad and we won’t get it. If I have time, I’ll check with others who may have been filming.

Mozart May 2, 2010 at 5:24 pm

Thanks for the link, Doug. Approximately how many times did she state she was “serious” about being a “serious candidate” for a “serious job” with more “serious this and serious that”…? I lost track after 6 times.

Also, nice reading of the notes line by line that Danny-Boy wrote for her.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 8:39 pm

Seems to me that the courage of one’s convictions (Karen Handel’s) is an attribute greatly to be desired in a candidate who is expected to govern equitably for all the people.

Ambernappe May 2, 2010 at 5:13 pm

My memory may be failing me, but I “think” that I have asked before for your definitions of “conservative” and “moderate”. My observations from published material and talking to the candidate indicate a STRONG Republican candidate.

AlanR May 2, 2010 at 6:35 pm

I don’t care what they say about you Doug Grammer, you’re a good man. I’ll check for the link to Deal’s comments tomorrow. Thanks.

benevolus May 2, 2010 at 7:01 pm

He just gets a little emotional sometimes. :-)

Georgia Judge May 2, 2010 at 8:44 pm

This whole chain of comments is indicative of how much of a Grandstanding flop this move was,almost as big as accussing the entire legislature of being unethical sleaze bags.Everyone knows McBerry is a freak and isnt going to draw more than 3% if that ,yet Handel makes this great stand that if she is TRUE to her word leaves her out of the remaining debates.
That is a self constructed box that will be hard to get out of,not well thought out…….

ByteMe May 2, 2010 at 8:51 pm

I’d have to agree with that last part. She boxed herself in when no one else agreed to shun any debates with McBerry. Now she either gets limited press by not appearing at the debates OR she has to backtrack. Either way, she blew turned an opportunity into a mess.

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 6:25 pm

If any organizer of a forum of any worth chooses McBerry over Handel, it will be to their own determent.

The empty seat that says Handel will do nothing more than re-enforce the idea that the other “gentlemen” in this race seem okay with child molesters sharing the stage with them.

I would hope that any GOP voters that have a chance to go to these events will join me and shouting McBerry off the stage.

B Balz May 3, 2010 at 6:31 pm

I’ll be there!

Not as a member of a mob or a gang, but just as one person who is disgusted by this man’s gall.

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 6:37 pm

Your a good man B B, even when you aren’t!

Signs also work here. “McPervert Go Home!”

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 6:38 pm

Oh and also handing out the hand written letter he sent to one of his victims out front of the venue would help too.

Republican Lady May 3, 2010 at 7:41 pm

Both are great ideas Doug! You are my hero too.

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 7:42 pm

You are too kind.

Republican Lady May 3, 2010 at 7:40 pm

You are my new hero.

Progressive Dem May 2, 2010 at 10:24 pm

Has Handel violated her pledge to support the Republican Party of Georgia? She is stating that one of the GOP candidates is unacceptable, and she couldn’t support him.

Doug Grammer May 3, 2010 at 12:18 am

Progressive Dem,

No, she has not. She can support the Georgia Republican Party regardless of who is running. If Nancy Pelosi moved to Georgia, signed the oath and met all other requirements, we would have to let her run for Gov. as a Republican barring a law suit. (I think there would be a law suit.) There have been people on the ballot who ran as a Republican that I did not support.

There are many reasons not to accept candidates: Some GOP candidates could be Rino’s, some could be unqualified (in the traditional sense, not the legal one) and some could be just unlikable. However, when you remove personalities and get down to a few core basics, such as: promoting individual responsibility, rewarding and not punishing achievement, and understanding that the roll of government is to do what people cannot do well for themselves; supporting the GOP and the candidates who support it’s platform is still the best thing to do.

Lawful Money May 4, 2010 at 8:10 pm

Mr. Grammer,

This may be slightly off topic, but since you did volunteer a sample collection of standards (“core basics”) which any candidate of and for the GOP is presumed to represent & endorse as a condition of that candidacy:

Would you mind further clarifying what is meant by:

“understanding that the roll of government is to do what people cannot do well for themselves” ?

Thank you

ByteMe May 4, 2010 at 8:16 pm

The obvious is “build a road through the middle of town”.

Doug Grammer May 5, 2010 at 8:32 pm

I agree with that as well.

Doug Grammer May 5, 2010 at 8:30 pm

Not everyone can home-school, and not everyone can afford private school. There is a social contract the implies that it is in everyone’s best interest to have an educated workforce in society. Therefore, one roll of government that does what (most) people cannot do well for themselves as a whole is to provide an education from K through 12 grade. I am OK with using vouchers for school choice and letting parents send their children across county lines, if they think that is best for their child’s education. I think education requirements should be done on a state by state basis, and the federal government should have zero impact on that and the federal department of education should be pushed over by bulldozers. That does not mean that parents should not teach their children and there are some things, such as religion and sex, that should be covered by the parents first.

Is that enough of one example?

Lawful Money May 5, 2010 at 9:18 pm

Thanks Mr. Grammer,

That sounds like a good example to make the point it seems you were trying to make – and I say that, of course, since only you really do know the entirety of the point you were trying to make…..

Would you indulge me in a couple/few more questions, meant to focus both your original statement of “core values”, and on your reply?

RE: your original statements –

Is the “use of government to do what people cannot do well for themselves” (or some such similar doctrine) a specific platform item, part of a statement of principles, or an otherwise codified tenet to which either a member or candidate must pledge allegiance as a condition of Republican membership or qualifying in your county GOP or any Georgia GOP organization that you know of?

RE: your thoughtful response –

I suspect, and as you stated, that is just one example of how it is that you might justify the legitimate, lawful use of government “to do what people cannot do well for themselves” – but is there any limit to the examples which may be promoted using the same justification? If there are limits, where are THEY codified? If there are not, what or WHO determines either the limitation of those things to be promoted using the same justification – or the criteria to be used to evaluate whether something COULD BE….OR IS…being done for “people (which) they cannot do well for themselves”?

Thank you for your polite consideration and your valued opinion.

Doug Grammer May 5, 2010 at 10:32 pm

The simple answer is I help get people whose judgment I trust elected and I let them sort out the details.

As far as having things “codified,” there is an oath that can be required when someone runs for statewide office: “I do hereby swear or affirm my allegiance to the Republican Party.” Counties may require it as well, if they put it in their rules, which should be filed in every county with the county body that deals with elections. The actual national GOP platform is rather lengthy. You don’t have to agree with ever word to consider yourself a member of the GOP. You don’t even have to agree with every candidate who qualifies as a Republican. Legally speaking, citizens of Georgia are Democrats and Republicans only on the day(s) when they decide which primary election to vote in. That was decided by case law, where someone started to run as a member of one party, changed their mind, and qualified as a member of another party. The judge ruled that the (first) party couldn’t make him be a member of that party if he didn’t want to be. I’d guess about 30% of Georgians consider themselves Republicans and about 25% think they are Democrats. The vast majority of the rest consider themselves Independents. There maybe a 1000 to 2000 or so people elected to political office in both parties that might be considered members of the party for more than a day or two at a time.

As far as who is controlling what the role of government is in Georgia and what limits it may have, right now I’d say that’s decided by Gov. Perdue, Lt. Gov. Cagle, and Speaker Ralston, when they agree. Technically, it’s the majority of the members of the house and the senate, but the leaders of those bodies have a big voice in what happens.

Doug Grammer May 5, 2010 at 10:35 pm

I am getting tired. I missed a typo. “ever” should be “every.”

Lawful Money May 6, 2010 at 6:14 am

Thanks again,

If I’m understanding you correctly then:

1) The provision that a GOP member or candidate should or must agree with the doctrine that “the roll of government is to do what people cannot do well for themselves”, is NOT a mandatory one either codified in the Party bylaws or demanded as part of any oath or affirmation, as far as you know

2) The same provision is really more of an opinion or preference of YOURS (caps meant for emphasis only, not “shouting”) – something that YOU see as being a core value – and an opinion/preference which you acknowledge may not be held by many/any other GOP member or “official”.

3) The absence of holding such a belief/opinion/preference does not disqualify a GOP member.

4) There is no codified limitation on how one may either interpret or implement such a provision under the auspices of “legitimate” government action.

5) There is no codified (stated or enumerated) limitation or criteria by which that same provision which you (and perhaps some/many others) may be initiated, maintained, expanded, discontinued, enhanced or even abolished – other than the other personal opinions and preferences of certain individual Party members or those of certain members of elected office holders.

There may be more – but do those conclusions seem accurate so far?

Many thanks again.

Doug Grammer May 6, 2010 at 10:35 am

http://www.gop.com/2008platform/

I am paraphrasing things that can be found in the GOP platform. The exact same wording is not found there, but I think they fairly common among most Republicans.

I will agree that the absence of holding such a belief/opinion/preference does not disqualify a GOP member, as long as they are voting for Republicans.

As far as items 4 and 5 go, the platform is not a set of bills, but a basic set of philosophy planks to work from as a guiding principal. One does not have agree with everything in the platform. One could be against Puerto Rico ever becoming a state and still consider themselves a Republican.

I’ll give a few excerpts from the platform to back up my paraphrasing.

From the Chairmen’s Preamble: “Faith in the virtues of self-reliance, civic commitment, and concern for one another. Distrust of government’s interference in people’s lives. Dedication to a rule of law that both protects and preserves liberty. ”

From Reforming Government to Serve the People: “Republicans will uphold and defend our party’s core principles: Constrain the federal government to its legitimate constitutional functions. Let it empower people, while limiting its reach into their lives. Spend only what is necessary, and tax only to raise revenue for essential government functions. Unleash the power of enterprise, innovation, civic energy, and the American spirit – and never pretend that government is a substitute for family or community.”

from Empowering the States, Improving Public Services:

“The long term solution for many of Washington’s problems is structural. Congress must respect the limits imposed upon it by the Tenth Amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

“We look to the model of Republican welfare reform, which, since its enactment in 1996, has accomplished a major transfer of resources and responsibility from the federal government back to the states – with an accompanying improvement in the program itself. Applying that approach to other programs will steer Congress back into line with the Constitution, reversing both its intrusion into state matters and its neglect of its central duties. ”

“Additionally, as important as returning power to the states is returning power to the people. As the Declaration of Independence states, our rights are endowed to us by our Creator and are inalienable: rights to life, liberty, and property. Government does not confer these rights but is instituted by men to protect the rights that man already possesses. The Republican Party strongly affirms these rights and demands that government respect them.”

I think that’s enough on this thread. This is getting too close to what most would consider a thread jack and it’s rude. Please either e-mail me personally or find an open thread to continue this.

Mayonnaise May 3, 2010 at 12:05 am

As of today, Karen has appeared on stage with McBerry just as many times as the rest of the candidates. However, being the first to decide against future appearances gives her the right to accuse the rest of approving of McBerry’s behavior. Is that her game plan for crossing over the finish line? I guess the $500k has dwindling down pretty fast. In the meantime, the Johnson commercials, signs, and mail pieces continue to roll off the presses.

Mozart May 3, 2010 at 1:01 am

It all depends on whether the voters fall for the foolish implication. If the voters are THAT stupid to go along with her charade, then that will mean they’ve yet to learn how to use their supposed “right-wing minds” to figure out the best candidate.

Maurice Atkinson May 3, 2010 at 11:40 am

As for Karens statement on not sharing the podium with McBerry. GOOD FOR HER!

The Party should have sent him his money back and declined allowing him on the GOP ballot. Allegiance to the party doesn’t include messing around with children, no matter how long ago.

Mozart May 3, 2010 at 11:49 am

Fair enough. But, our party also doesn’t believe in the Democrat platform. Yet, if Handel was elected to be governor, she might have to talk to Obama. Oh, gasppp! Just appearing in a photo with Obama would mean she would be accepting of his agenda, would it not?

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 6:21 pm

You think child molestors are OK, we get it.

Mozart May 3, 2010 at 6:57 pm

Not sure if you can legally call Ray McBerry a “child molestor.” Is not that not a “legal definition” in Georgia law? He was never charged with that.

AND…you dodged the point I was making, Doug: Karen says she’s uncomfortable with being on stage with Ray McBerry. If she was elected governor, is she allowed to duck away from every possible encounter with someone who may not be a “nice person?”

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 7:02 pm

People confise child molesting with statatory rape.

Child molesting is :

sexual molestation – a term defining offenses in which an adult engages in non-penetrative activity with a minor for the purpose of sexual gratification; for example, exposing a minor to pornography or to the sexual acts of others.[86]

Mozart May 3, 2010 at 7:06 pm

Well then, Doug, I can safely state NO, I am not in favor of “child molestors.”

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 7:11 pm

Then perhaps you can act like it.

Mozart May 3, 2010 at 7:25 pm

Ohhh…do tell me how my response to Maurice Atkinson was in ANY way a statement of support for child molestors? Because that is what you stated, not me.

Republican Lady May 3, 2010 at 7:54 pm

Mozart,

That is not even remotely the same thing. People interact with people they don’t like on a daily basis, nice or not but McBerry is in a totally different category. And while you are correct in that a court of law never judged him guilty, the circumstantial and direct evidence is overwhelming. Did you not read his letter sent to the victim and her family which was in direct violation of the restraining order? McBerry and his pastor convinced them to do the “Christian” thing and work it out in the church. I am a Christian but you can bet your bippy that if my child had been the victim, you couldn’t get me to the DA’s office fast enough to prosecute. Pedophiles are extemely adept at working the victims and the judical system. I doubt she was his first victim and she sure won’t be his last, he will just be more careful next time.

Doug Deal May 3, 2010 at 8:02 pm

Don’t forget that McBerry’s father was the Chief ADA in Henry County. One wonders if he played any part in keeping his son out of the pokey and one wonders if so, did the DA know? Would you so willingly run to the DA’s office knowing his father might be handling the case?

The benefits to having a family member in positions of power in Georgia are numerous.

polisavvy May 3, 2010 at 8:46 pm

I have always wondered what role, if any, McBerry’s dad may have played in this whole debacle. And you are so true about the benefits to family members of those in power. I guess we will never know!

Jeff May 4, 2010 at 9:03 pm

RL:

Actually, the letter was sent days before the restraining order was issued. I really need to work up a timeline post – should be fairly revealing. (Most people seem to have a very warped timeline with these events, which is understandable given how the issue has come out in a very cyclic fashion.)

polisavvy May 5, 2010 at 9:26 am

Have you had an opportunity to ask the parents of the girl why they didn’t pursue the matter further. I am just wondering why they settled for a restraining order. Just curious if you already have this information. Thanks in advance.

Lady Thinker May 5, 2010 at 10:47 am

You are right, it is confusing because in the letter, he said he wanted to ask for their forgiveness before the Hearing. One has to wonder if it is the Hearing to have the Restraining Order issues or if it is six months later near the second Hearing.

John Konop May 3, 2010 at 6:42 pm

Mozart,

Seriously, as a parent I find your comment way out of line!

polisavvy May 3, 2010 at 6:51 pm

Agreed!

Mozart May 3, 2010 at 7:02 pm

John, isn’t it you that has cited more times on this blog phrases from Scripture about Jesus says this and Jesus says that, and how you are supposed to “hate the sin, but love the sinner?”

Don’t fabricate accusations to level against me. I made a valid point and Doug chose to take your oft-used tack and accuse me of being something unrelated to what I stated.

John Konop May 3, 2010 at 7:50 pm

Mozart,

For you to compare dealing with Obama relative to this situation demonstrates your lack of understanding the collateral damage involved in situation like this. We are not talking about a political issue, this is about abusing a minor and using your position of authority to pull it off. Are you a parent?

Mozart May 3, 2010 at 8:56 pm

I thought this was the thread of showering accolades on Karen Handel? That’s what Maurice was doing. I didn’t see where you blogged on the horrors of child molestation until just now.

I wish this party did have standards of some sort that would actually define what qualifies someone to be “qualified” for public office other than being able to plunk down money and sign an oath…why doesn’t the party change the oath?

We could make it a real oath whereby you swear to what you’ve never done, never will do, and then also swear allegiance to the platform.

1) I have never

ByteMe May 3, 2010 at 9:24 pm

Weirdly enough, they would have to change state law first.

Republican Lady May 3, 2010 at 7:43 pm

That is so totally not the same thing.

ByteMe May 4, 2010 at 9:58 pm

I thought it was a bad move. Maybe not.

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2010/05/04/karen-handel-gets-a-ray-mcberry-less-debate/

The Columbia County Young Republican Club will be hosting a gubernatorial debate on Saturday, May 8th at 4 p.m. It will be held at the Jabez Hardin Auditorium in the Columbia County Library. After the debate, there will be an opportunity for citizens to meet the candidates.

Invited candidates include former congressman Nathan Deal, former state senator Eric Johnson, Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine, former secretary of state Karen Handel and state Sen. Jeff Chapman.

Due to recent allegations, and the refusal by former secretary of state Handel to appear alongside Ray McBerry, we made the difficult decision to not include Mr. McBerry in this debate.

Provocateur May 5, 2010 at 1:23 am

Uh-oh. Now Handel has to show-up and debate.

Lady Thinker May 5, 2010 at 1:35 am

Awesome!

Doug Grammer May 5, 2010 at 9:52 am

Will the Columbia County YR’s get sued?

Provocateur May 5, 2010 at 4:04 pm

Will Handel now show-up is the bigger question?

GAPoliticsisfun May 5, 2010 at 8:46 am

The spin of Handel being afraid to show up for debates is very interesting. She has been to more debates than Oxendine.

For the debates that have posted online, she has always done very well. She may not have won them all, but nobody else has either.

gatormathis May 5, 2010 at 10:19 am

“The spin of Handel being afraid to show up for debates is very interesting. She has been to more debates than Oxendine.”

Karen probably mulls over things such as taxes, jobs, enviroment, staying calm, looking sincere, pantsuit/dress…etc..so on…

McBerry could be mulling over a daisy…….she luvs me…..she luvs me not……the press luvs me……..no they don’t………will the peoples luv me….no they won’t…..

All the rest of the blokes mulling over …..how the heck do we get this train back on the track and following normal political issues and debate…

…last but not least….Ray Boyd wondering….still can’t figure out what I did so bad………..

Provocateur May 5, 2010 at 4:03 pm

What’s “normal?”

gatormathis May 6, 2010 at 9:49 am

What’s “normal?”

…funny hoss, i was thinking the same thing as I penned that….lol…..

Lady Thinker May 6, 2010 at 12:18 am

I like your comments.

Comments on this entry are closed.