Marshall will vote against ObamaCare

That’s the word this afternoon:

Dem Rep Jim Marshall, a prominent Blue Dog who voted No last time but was believed to be open to backing the Senate bill, is now a definite No, his spokesperson confirms.

“Marshall is a no,” Marshall spokesperson Doug Moore tells our reporter, Ryan Derousseau.

Marshall is one of 39 Dems who voted No last time that reform proponents were hoping to flip to Yes, in order to make up ground and get to 216 votes. The confirmation that Marshall will vote No reduces that pool a bit.

I hear Rep. John Barrow is against it as well, but there is nothing concrete on that at this time.


  1. slyram says:

    Marshall is real; pointblank real and I salute him for being consistent. With that said, the White House, the Dem Team and the Black community should help him last. Of course, he doesn’t need help because he just helped himself and won reelection.

    If Michael Steele doesn’t know the name Jim Marshall, he should learn it because a quality Black GOP candidate could win this seat by connecting with the Black community in Macon, Covington, Warner Robins and Tifton. Will it happen? No, because they could put all the influential African American Republicans in Georgia and outside Atlanta in a Chevy Suburban at one time. Big Tent, Big Umbrella. Please.

    • Slyram,

      Any suggestions on increasing the number of minorities in the GOP would be appreciated. There is a lot of common ground on issues that I don’t think has been examined.

      • macho says:

        Good point Ken. I’ve always thought the GOP ought to be able bring blacks into the fold with the concept of school choice.

        • Jessica J says:

          The GOP has no idea how to attract black candidates or supporters to the party. I, for one, considered the GOP years ago. What changed my mind was being a part of a party that the likes of Rush and Hannity support. I would hear the rhetoric they would spew from their mouths and a lot of it was major racist and the GOP party leaders would act as if it was OK. I could never in good conscience support such losers. The Democratic Party lacks so much that I believe in but they are better than the hypocrites that have the big “R” beside their names.

          Black people will never as a whole support the GOP as long as you have idiots like those in FOX. As far as Michael Steele is concerned, he’s just a pawn being used by the Republican Party. He wouldn’t be in his position had Obama not won the election. The Republicans wanted to play is safe and let a black man attack another black man. That way, they won’t be perceived as racist every time they criticize President Obama. 99.9% of black people see through this and consider Steele as an “Uncle Tom” being controlled by the “massa”.

            • Jessica J says:

              Thanks David. I’ll check out and research the Libertarian Party. Especially on the state level, I really would like to vote for someone I really believe in without all the political drama that goes with being a part of a major party.

              • benevolus says:

                When you do Jessica, keep in mind that the Libertarians usually only tell you half of the story- how much money you will allegedly save. They don’t dwell on all the services that will no longer be available that you will have to organize yourself.

                LP is fine if you live out in the woods and don’t have to interact much with others. For those of us who live in communities, most of us have chosen to identify our needs and pool our resources to manage those needs. We may not do it perfectly, but it’s better than the libertarian utopias of Haiti or Somalia or any other place with little central organization.

              • seenbetrdayz says:

                I’m reminded of a bumper sticker I once saw:

                “Beware of libertarians. They may leave you alone.”

          • GOPGeorgia says:

            Jessica J,

            Please explain how the GOP can fire the FOX news staff. I’ve met Michael Steele about a half a dozen times. The first time, he was the sitting Lt. Gov. of Maryland. I didn’t think I had met a black man, I thought I met a strong conservative who was warm and sharp. His skin color didn’t mean as much to me as it seems to mean to you. When he ran for US Senate, the opposition threw Oreos at him.

            The GOP should gain support of black people not because we reach out to them just because they are black, but because we have ideas that work for everyone, regardless of color. Government that is closest to the people is best. Realizing that you can’t tax a nation into prosperity. That everyone, regardless of color is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We should win their support when they realize that we respect people for what’s inside (their skin), and not what’s on the outside.

            • Progressive Dem says:

              GOP Ga.,

              Answer me this: if “Government that is closest to the people is best” how come public school boards are not the most efficient and effective example of government services?

              • seenbetrdayz says:

                People get the government they deserve? If you don’t like your board members, vote ’em out.

                Can you vote out the head of the U.S. Department of Education?

                It has never been said, “Government that is closest to the people is PERFECT”. Just that it was ‘best’.

            • Jessica J says:

              Good Morning GOPGeorgia,

              I appreciate your comments. I never said that the Republican Party could fire the FOX News staff. I said they should start standing up to them when they start spewing hate in support of the Republican Party. As far as Michael Steele is concerned, I stand by what I said. He’s a pawn for the Republican Party. If John McCain had won the election, Steele WOULD NOT be head of the Republican Party. As far as the GOP gaining support of black people, well, the party themselves stated several years ago they would actively recruit African Americans ito their party. Saxby Chambliss is my Senator. I live in a majority African American part of town. Saxby has NEVER reached out to us. He has never even campaigned in my part of town. I have never so much as seen a campaign sign, received a robo call or nothing from him. Absolutely NOTHING. It’s because he knows he doesn’t need the African American vote to win re-election so he doesn’t serve us while he’s in office nor does he reach out to us when he’s running for re-election.

              Most black people that I talk to clearly state they have a problem with the GOP because they are perceived as racists. If the GOP truly wanted to reach out to the black community, they would work on dispelling this perception. Did you see the last Republican convention on TV? There was no outreach to any minority community. The convention floor was filled with white people and a few minorities here and there. So, while I do understand your statements, I respectfully feel differently. And I stand by my statement about the likes of Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and the rest. They spew hate and racism and black people don’t like people who don’t like us!

              • GOPGeorgia says:

                GM Jessica,

                If the GOP spent all day long repudiating everything that was said by everyone else that did not match up to the GOP platform, when would they find time to get their own message out? My suggestion is to watch what comes directly from the RNC and the Georgia GOP to decide what the GOP supports and what it doesn’t. There are plenty of people who identify themselves as a Republican who have access to a microphone, but that doesn’t mean that they are authorized by the GOP to speak for the GOP. Not everyone you named considers themselves a Republican. If you perceive them that way, that’s up to you.

                I don’t hold Tom Hanks as a representative of the Democratic party.

                If you have not received a robo call from Saxby, or other elected GOP candidates, part of the reason (probably) for that lies with you. Robo calls are expensive. They are sent to those who vote in the GOP primary consistently. They are not subdivided by race. If you aren’t voting GOP, you are not part of his target base that he wants to turn out.

                I disagree with you on Michael Steele. He’s a smart man, and the last Chairman wasn’t getting the job done as well as he should have. Chairman Steele’s resume was better and he was a better campaigner for the job. He wanted it and there were other “old white men” who wanted the job as well. The RNC voted for Steele. You are the one watching skin color closer than I am. It doesn’t matter to me if Steele is black or white, but you can’t say that the GOP doesn’t care about black people and at the same time complain when it elects one to the highest office of the party.

                If anyone thinks the GOP has improving to do, I recommend these steps. Vote Republican in the primaries consistently. You will start getting letters and robo calls that way. Attend your county party meetings on a regular basis and try to be heard and make a difference. When it is time for conventions next year, run for a spot as a delegate to the state convention and as an officer of the party. Do a good job. Help fund raise for your local GOP party and support it’s candidates. Maybe even run for office. In 2012, run for delegate to the RNC convention. You will be competing against people who have been working for the GOP their whole lives, and sometimes that’s 20 years or more. I have ran for delegate to the RNC convention twice and have not been sent as a delegate. As a rule, we reward individual effort, and don’t give out delegate slots based upon the color of skin. I wish you luck on making a difference in the GOP.

                  • GOPGeorgia says:

                    That’s fine Jessica. I just want you to understand that you won’t be getting robo calls or mail to turn out the base, until you become part of the base. When you think something needs work, the quickest way to fix it is to do it yourself. When you are ready, the door is open.

              • polisavvy says:

                If I could jump in this fray for a moment, I’d just like to say that Fox does nothing any worse than what I hear from Jack Cafferty on CNN or Olbermann, Maddow, Ratigan, and Matthews of MSNBC spew on a daily basis. You put them in a bag, shake it up, dump them out, and they all come out the same.

                  • polisavvy says:

                    I just think that spewing hateful rhetoric in anybody’s direction is a terrible thing regardless of color, creed, national origin, or sexual preference. That’s the point I was trying to make.

  2. polisavvy says:

    Since he’s my Representative (I didn’t vote for him) and I am opposed to the health care bill, I am glad he’s standing his ground. I don’t believe he’ll be the only Blue Dog Democrat who resists. Others will follow suit. Just my opinion.

  3. I’m not sure how prominent Jim Marshall is.

    Marshall holds zero leadership positions within the Democrat Party or on the two committees of which he is a member.

    Marshall has been in Congress since 2003. He didn’t even offer up a bill until 2007. He has offered up 21 bills since then but only one bill has even been discussed or voted upon. That legislative masterpiece, that effort that would have made Richard Russell, Sam Nunn or Newt Gingrich blush with envy?

    Jim Marshall – are you ready? – changed the name of The Ocmulgee National Monument! He changed it to The Ocmulgee Mounds National Monument!

    Yep, eight years and we get a word. Now that is quality leadership!

    Georgia’s 8th Congressional Distrcit deserves better.

    • macho says:

      I’m a hardcore GOPer, but in fairness to Marshall, he has the curse of representing one of the few, potential swing districts, in Washington. Campaigning, every two years, becomes a permanent full-time job. He’ll never be able to vote the party line enough, and dedicate the time, to advance within the Dem ranks. Most Congressmen in gerrymandered districts, like Tom Price and John Lewis, can dedicate all their time to garnering influence within their caucus in Washington. Come to think of it, Lewis doesn’t really have an excuse for having such a miniscule amount of influence in relation to the years he’s served in Washington.

      • Georgia-8 is a +10 GOP district according to the Cook Report. Marshall is neither a conservative nor a Republican. He’s a bad fit but people have come to expect little from him in terms of leadership or legislation. His votes on matters which gather little press are with Pelosi’s main core group.

        • Game Fan says:

          My impression is that instead of being happy and overjoyed that Marshall isn’t voting for Obamacare, instead, you seem rather irate over Jim Marshall at this particular time. WTF? Perhaps it’s from being part of the grassroots, and maybe/maybe not being that “strategically astute”, but from my point of view there might be better times to unload on a guy that you don’t like. For my part I intend to “shower him with kindness” for the next few days. In fact I hope that Jim Marshall is HAILED WITH ACCOLADES!! 🙂

          • Game Fan,

            If you would like to settle for crumbs from the table, then that’s your choice. Fortunately, there are alternatives.

            if the fact that Marshall occasionally votes his district’s wishes is enough for you then you’ve sold yourself pretty cheap.

            Georgia’s Eighth Congressional District deserves better than Jim Marshall. I am working to make that happen.

            • Game Fan says:

              You can work to make whatever happen you want, but right now I’m liking what’s going on. And don’t forget, although I’m a self-identified Republican, I voted for Tommy Irvin for commissioner of ag. In fact, the only real reason I identify with the Republican party is Ronald Reagan.

      • benevolus says:

        What the hell do you know about how much influence John Lewis has? What an idiotic thing to say.

        • GOPGeorgia says:


          Cussing doesn’t make you right, and neither does name calling. If you are going to argue Lewis’s influence, cite a few examples. Other than in the Dem primary for President, I can’t think of any. Than again, I try not to pay him too much attention.

            • GOPGeorgia says:

              Macho is a woman?

              You’ve already tried to refute his/her point. I think you did a bad job of it, but that’s my opinion. I even tried to help you out by citing the one time I can remember Congressman Lewis showed any type of influence. The rest is up to you. Then again, I happen to see some sense in Macho’s assessment. Why would I challenge something I think I might agree with?

              I’m just scolding you for name calling, cussing, and not making a good argument.

  4. Harry says:

    Given the political reality and rather than lose the seat, Pelosi releases him to vote no. Happens all the time. Does that really fool anyone?

  5. benevolus says:

    It is damn tough to be a politician! Dude votes AGAINST his party and catches crap from the OPPOSITION for being weak!

    • No, he catches crap because he is a fake. He likes to portray himself as a conservative at home. His town hall meetings are an exercise in snake oil, weasel-heartedness and side-stepping. Unfortunately, he’s very good at it.

      When his Washington staff can’t even tell you how he is going to vote TWO HOURS before the vote, then many people assume he doesn’t know. Why doesn’t he know? Because Madame Pelosi has not yet told him.

      >b>Jim Marshall: Giving new meaning to the term “Nancy Boy” with every vote.

            • griftdrift says:

              A democrat in a conservative district where he’s had to beat back a tough challenger every two years might wait to see which way the wind blows on some of the more controversial issues? Shocking.

              • Perhaps he’s gauging his constituents’ opinions before voting. After all, he is supposed to represent them right? I can’t say I know anything about Jim Marshall, but I’d prefer it if someone voted more in line with their constituents’ views, no matter what party they belong to.

                • polisavvy says:

                  I agree with you David. Mr. Marshall represents me and I’m glad he’s listening to what the majority of his constituents feel.

                  • Poli,

                    How often do you call Marshall’s office before a major vote? There are quite a few of us who get tired of having to make those calls. Frankly, I’d prefer someone who was already in-line with what the majority of this district wants.

                    • polisavvy says:

                      As a matter of fact, Ken, I have called his office on many occasions before key votes. I have even called his office about issues not relative to a vote. I’m not one who just sits here behind a computer screens and whines. As a matter of fact, I sometimes feel as though I am a pest for making these calls. I am very proactive with all of Georgia’s Representatives and our two Senators. I just said that I am glad he is listening to his constituents. I didn’t say I was glad he was listening to his constituents for a change, did I? I feel certain that there are probably some on here who have never called any of them — I’m just not one of them.

                    • benevolus,

                      Not on this bill, on previous bills. If you don’t know how you’re going to vote on Cap and Trade 2 hours before the bill, then that’s a problem.

                    • benevolus says:

                      Maybe you’re right. That’s a good criteria for judging the effectiveness of legislators! They should implement a system where each legislator can record their decision as soon as they decide. Then we can check the record to see who is deciding the fastest and vote for THEM.

              • grift,

                To vote against Obamacare and against the Cap and Trade tax was not controversial in this district. To even consider voting for it? Now that was controversial.

  6. GOPGeorgia says:

    I’m glad he’s voting against it. I’d still replace him with a Republican if I could, but I’m glad he’s voting this way. I haven’t checked, but I’d guess he voted for Pelosi for Speaker. That’s enough to make me want to replace him, but it looks like I agree with him more than I do than other Dems in congress (at least on this vote.)

    • Hi Doug,

      You’re right; he voted for Pelosi.

      He votes with Barney Frank approximately 85% of the time and Lynn Westmoreland about 44% of the time.

      On large votes he usually yields to his constituents but on procedural votes and lesser publicized bills he votes with Pelosi.

      No leadership, no legislation of note and getting him to vote the way his district wants is always a major undertaking. We’re getting tired of having to call, email, fax, etc on every important bill.

      Marshall is not a good fit for this district.

      • aquaman says:

        For what it’s worth, I was with a group of 6 on a trip to D.C. 2 years ago and one of our scheduled stops was with Marshall. We arrived on time but had to wait because the Congressman had been “delayed”. We waited about 15 or 20 minutes when Marshall saunters in. No coat, no tie and a little out of breath. The reason for his delay: overtime at a pick up basketball game in the congressional gym. As if being late and unprepared wasn’t insulting enough he had to regale us with a replay of his basketball game. What a waste of space.

  7. Progressive Dem says:

    Rep. Marshall should support this bill. It offers immediate help to Georgians. Most folks don’t know what’s in the bill. The bill polls poorly because all people hear about is the fighting and sausage making, but when people understand what’s in the bill they favor the specific components.

    Here is what the bill does immediately:

    1) Eliminating lifetime limits, and cap annual limits, on health-care benefits. In other words, if you get an aggressive cancer and your treatment costs an extraordinary amount, your insurer can’t suddenly remind you that subparagraph 15 limited your yearly expenses to $30,000, and they’re not responsible for anything above that.
    2) No more rescissions, except in fraud. In other words an insurance company can’t just drop you when you file a big claim.
    3) Some interim help for people who have preexisting conditions, though the bill does not instantly ban discrimination on preexisting conditions. Immediate federal support for a new program to provide affordable coverage to uninsured Americans with preexisting conditions. Coverage under this program will continue until new Exchanges are operational.
    4) Requiring insurers to cover preventive care and immunizations.
    5) Allowing young adults to stay on their parent’s insurance plan until age 26.
    6) Developing uniform coverage documents so people can compare different insurance policies in an apples-to-apples fashion. No more hidden gotcha clauses.
    7) Requires disclosure of how much insurance companies spend on administrative salaries, marketing, and benefits. Forcing insurers to spend 80 percent of all premium dollars on medical care (75 percent in the individual market).
    8) Creating an appeals process and providing assistance to states for consumer advocates for insurance customers.
    9) Developing a temporary re-insurance program to help early retirees (folks over 55) afford coverage.
    10) Reduce the “donut” in prescription drug program. Guarantee a 50% discount on drugs purchased by low and moderate income beneficiaries.
    11) Offer tax credits to small businesses to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 50 percent of premiums will be available to firms that choose to offer
    12) Creating an internet portal to help people shop for and compare coverage.
    13) Banning discrimination based on salary (i.e., where a company that’s not self-insured makes only some full-time workers eligible for coverage.

    • polisavvy says:

      There’s no denying that there are some really good points to the health care bill and that we need insurance reform. The problem is that there are so many other things included in the bill that it is turning people off. If the only thing being voted on was the above 13 points you raised, I think the support would be there. Unfortunately, that’s not the case. We presently pay $1500 a month for health care. We certainly don’t want to see it raise. We couldn’t afford it.

      • ByteMe says:

        Ok, I’ll bite: what other things are in the bill that would override getting the above? Remember: all Republicans are refusing to play along at all, so you have to get all Democrats on board only and each of them have their own constituents to consider. What exactly is included in the bill that’s worse than the great things the above 13 provide?

        Is it the special deals for a couple of states? If you pull those and those senators say they won’t vote for it, you don’t get the above 13, so was the special deal really that bad relative to losing those 13 items? Especially when you can later strip the special deal at any time and not lose the above 13?

        • polisavvy says:

          I think I am most concerned as to how all of this will affect small businesses. From what I’ve been hearing (and no, I haven’t had a chance to read the bill though I am in the process of doing so), it concerns me that they are going to take a hit. That really concerns me since we own a small construction/remodeling business. Have you been able to find anything in the bill that relates to this concern? If so, would you mind telling me about where in the bill it is so I can fast forward to that section? I am totally amazed at how much you know about so many things. Even though we don’t always see eye-to-eye you always make really sound and strong responses. I actually learn a lot from your posts.

          I definitely think that something needs to be done. Neither we nor anyone else should have to pay so much for insurance where the deductibles are so high that we have a hard time financially when something like surgeries (gall bladder) or emergency room visits (bleeding ulcers) occur. As far as the “back room deals” go, well I do have a problem with Georgia or any other state having to bear the brunt of a few chosen states. I realize that the deals can be stripped later, but many times things that are started are difficult to stop. That’s my two cents worth and thanks in advance for helping me find what I’m specifically looking for, Byte.

          • benevolus says:

            I own a small business too and I’m not worried about “a hit”. First of all, all small businesses would take the same hit, so it doesn’t change the competitive balance, and secondly, there’s no way it could be more than a few hundred dollars because too many businesses wouldn’t be able to do it. And they usually put some sort of fail-safe in there anyway- if you can demonstrate that you can’t afford it then you get a pass for the year, or something like that. Many of those guys in Congress are small businesspeople too.

          • ByteMe says:

            Pardon the delay on my part, savvy; I’m working harder than usual today and don’t have time to do a deep dive on the text to find the appropriate sections. Perhaps someone else can look thru the Senate bill in the meantime. If not, I’ll try to get to it this evening.

            • polisavvy says:

              Thanks Byte. No worries. I too am busy today and will try to get back on it this evening. Thanks again.

              • polisavvy says:

                Byte, I’m still trying to wade through this thing. Please let me know if you find something.

                • ByteMe says:

                  I’m actually still working (major sigh). But what you’ll want to look for are two things: minimum number of employees (I think the number was 50) and penalties for not purchasing health insurance for your employees if you have over the minimum number of employees.

                  • polisavvy says:

                    Sorry about your long work day. Thanks for the information. As usual, you explained it just right. If I might ask, what is your line of work?

                    • ByteMe says:

                      I’m a software programmer by trade, but I’m really more of a serial entrepreneur with five businesses between my wife and I and we’re currently brainstorming for an idea for a 6th.

                    • ByteMe says:

                      What did you end up finding last night? I finished work around 10 and crashed and got back up at 4:30 to pick up where I left off.

                    • ByteMe says:

                      Never mind, found this:


                      Should make it clear what is expected and when. Just know that right now, the Senate Bill is going to be the first bill to be signed into law and then the next bill is going to be the one passed using reconciliation rules and that one will have some things the House wanted as well as stripping out most of the special deals needed to get the Senate vote to pass.

                      At least, that’s today’s plan. Every day can be an adventure in Washington politics.

                    • polisavvy says:

                      Thanks for that link, Byte. It certainly answered the questions I had. As far as things changing, well, we know that nothing is written in stone in D.C. until it is actually written. Thanks again and I hope your day today is a little less crazy. Good luck with your potential new business!

    • GOPGeorgia says:


      Some of that sounds great, but the devil is in the details. Please explain how 30,000,000 more people will be covered without costs going up, no big push for more doctors and everyone still able to see a doctor in a reasonable amount of time. Sometimes, I have to wait 2 to 3 hours as it is. Will I have to wait weeks?

      Is this covered under the commerce clause in the constitution?

      There are many more rebuttals, but I think that’s enough for now.

      • Progressive Dem says:

        Costs are going up. They’re going up now, and they’ll continue to go up. They’ll go up even more without HCR. All of us with insurance pay for those that don’t have insurance. Everyone should be required to have health insurance, just like auto insurance.

        Everyday more Americans lose their group coverage. They lose it because their employer stops offering it, they lose their jobs, they work part-time (because the company doesn’t want to pay benefits to some workers), or they can’t afford it.

        Everyday more Americans are served by individual policies. These policies are expensive and have holes that a truck could drive through. Get cancer under these policies, and you’ll either get dropped or have your rates jacked up – as much and as often as they want to. You’ll be completely at their mercy. Go shop for another policy, and the next insurance company won’t insure you for cancer because its a pre-exisiting condition. You’ll run into more limitations than you ever imagined. Medical expenses are the leading cause of personal bankruptcy.

        That Wal-mart worker who isn’t covered and waits until his condition is critical or chronic, sticks us with a big emergency room visit, or indigent care paid by the hospital. Everyone with insurance pays that bill in higher medical costs and higher insurance premiums. HCR will allow people to get treated early, it promotes preventive care and that is where the savings will come. HCR will bend the cost curve, it is cheaper than doing nothing. There is analysis to back this up.

        The GOP in Washington is more interested in hurting Obama, than lowering health care. It’s shameful. Not one member will work with the minority. That’s pretty unusual. They get political pointsfor loyality, but demonstrate their cold disregard for working constructively to solve a problem facing millions of Americans. The Democrats ran on health care reform.

        When Clinton proposed an employer mandate in the 90’s, Grassley said no; that’s too big a burden on small business. He said, we should have an inidividual mandate. So, this time the Senate version provides an individual mandate, but Grassley won’t support that. This is not a radical bill. It will benefit the country, and it sure as hell will benefit the insurance companies. Their stock values jumped when the Senate passed the bill.

        The GOP ideas have all been around for years. When they controled government they didn’t pass the bills or do anything about improving health are or lowering medical costs. Malpractice limits have had nominal impacts in Georgia and California where they’ve had it for years. I’m more than willing to throw a bone to the GOP for malpractice limitations, but heaven forbid you or I have a child or grandchild that is a victim of malpractice and is permantly disabled or disfigured. Do you really want the state of Georgia deciding how much she is entitled to receive?

        Commerce clause: I think so. There are some incentives provisions to encourage doctors to serve in small towns and communities. In the future more work will be initially screened by physican assistants and nurses with a phd. It is more efficient and won’t hurt the quality of care.

        • GOPGeorgia says:

          I think that costs will go up more with the current bill, but that’s a difference of opinion.

          The commerce clause: “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes” Georgia does not currently allow the purchase of health insurance over state lines. Does any state? If the answer is no, how does the commerce clause apply or make it constitutional?

          It’s kind of strange that a Republican party idea could help make a Democratic party idea constitutional.

          • Progressive Dem says:

            GOP, do you really believe that the legal staff writing the bill has not considered the constitutionality of the entire effort before they began? It’s not a serious issue.

            • polisavvy says:

              In the defense of GOPGeorgia, I think there will be constitutional challenges ahead. There will be challenges on forcing someone to buy insurance or face a penalty which is proposed by the time the health care bill is fully operational. It’s not quite the same as requiring someone to have car insurance.

              • ByteMe says:

                The only difference I’ve heard is that one is enforced by the state and the other will be enforced by the Feds. I see that as a distinction without a difference.

            • ByteMe says:

              Prepare for the denials based on the CBO being “biased”. It’s easier to deny and curl into a ball than to face reality.

              • Hi ByteMe,

                The problem with th CBO estimate is two-fold:

                1 – The CBO has a self-imposed 10–years horizon that captures 10 years worth of taxes and four or five years worth of expenses obviously gives a skewed response.

                2 – The CBO uses the basic assumptions of the people who drew up the model.

                Summation: GIGO – Garbage In, Garbage Out.

                • ByteMe says:

                  Start with this:


                  It’s a re-scoring of the Senate bill that was passed, including all amendments less any discretionary spending not specifically included in the bill.

                  Note the paragraph that says:

                  CBO expects that the legislation, if enacted, would reduce federal budget deficits over the decade after 2019 relative to those projected under current law—with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range between one-quarter percent and one-half percent of GDP. That judgment is unchanged from CBO’s previous assessment, and the imprecision of that calculation reflects the even greater degree of uncertainty that attends to it, compared with CBO’s 10-year budget estimates.

                  Two things to note. First is that any projection 20 years out is nothing more than guesswork; second is that they still think that it’ll reduce outlays relative to current projected outlays.

                  Unless you can refute that by pointing out where the assumptions are wrong, you might be operating under a faulty paradigm.

  8. Goldwater Conservative says:

    You know what would be really awesome?

    If every member of the GOP voted for the reform.

    I move that we start a splinter movement of the Tea Party, but with a liberal orientation. We could be The Cocktail Party.

    Perhaps Eric Massa could lead the charge!

      • polisavvy says:

        Very funny!! 🙂 Perhaps we could use a good laugh every now and again, right? Sometimes I envision people with their heads exploding on here with all the passion that comes out in their posts.

        • Goldwater Conservative says:

          Well, I am somewhat serious about both…though I know how funny it would be.

          I will admit the one thing I admire about the Tea Party movement is it’s disruption on the right. The Democratic party has dealt with little-to-no cohesion since “Third Way” politics. I would like to see something on the left, like The Cocktail Party (notice, I capitalized The), embrace the spirit of the left and shake things up on a philosophical grounds.

          Now, the Eric Massa thing is kind of funny. Some people just don’t grow up (A bad comparison is Ben Rothlesberger). The Glenn Beck interview was awesome though. Massa put on a great performance.

          • benevolus says:

            The Dem party hasn’t had cohesion for a lot longer than that! Will Rogers said in about 1930: ” I’m not a member of an organized Party, I’m a Democrat”!

            But, that’s what having a big tent means.

  9. slyram says:

    Ken: Sorry for not getting back to the PP earlier. First, Marshall is in a precarious situation because his district includes both ends of the political spectrum. The Democrat block in the Macon is happy with him because he was a good mayor back in the day. The military community in our state likes him because he knows armed forces inside out. Blacks in the district seem to appreciate his deliver on regional matters (some would say grants and pork.)

    So, Democrats understand Blue Dog flexibility. Project Logic Ga is my blog and I just put an index of post at the top. The index is basically an outline on what my Black conservative friends should have done if there were an opportunity there but there isn’t. Real liberal Democrats tolerate Blue Dogs because winning the center was necessary to taking Washington back. On the other hand, real conservative don’t flex like that—hence the purity test.

    The key to GOP congressional gains in November will be anger and fear. Hey, that stuff works but angry crowds are too deja vu for Black southerners. The funny thing is that the issues are there anyway so the rhetoric (which is cooked up by nerds in D.C. and talk radio/TV folks) is not needed and could be counterproductive. Bring the facts and fiscal logic with a smile on your face like Rubio and Isakson and it would be on.

    When Michael Steele was running for chair, he produce a document called “The Blueprint” and it was a masterpiece for winning in November. Like the military or sports, you should study what works for the other guy and flip it back on them. To win a GOP primary in Georgia, a candidate better know the far-right agenda and be a veteran of the Tea Party Movement. However, a smoother Scott Brown-J.C. Watts type candidate would be more palatable to moderates, centrists and independents in the general election. Hey, once in office the candidate would make the single most important vote—Boehner for speaker.

    Running against Obama is a two-edge sword in swing districts. Some of the new voters from 2008 are Obamacrats and not necessarily strong Democrats. They might sleep on the races in 2008 until it becomes an Obama thing….let sleeping dogs lie. If spun correctly, President Obama constantly looking for a GOP member of congress with whom to dialog is a plus. Some in my community want to send him a Black GOP MOC who will tell him what’s up and voice concerns in a civil manner.

    Ken, I am all off track as usual. To answer your original question, Blacks who actually vote in the rural South are often very conservative on the issues but not eager to join a party where red meat tactics sometimes seem get mean-spirited. In my diverse group of political friends, we say that race trumps political party. A group of no-nonsense Black professional women candidates would pull women and Blacks away from the average Blue Dog yet still be 85% as conservative as any current Ga GOP member of congress.

    Would Blacks vote for a conservative? They vote for Jim Marshall.

    I respect the current candidates running the GOP primary against Marshall—let the chips fall where they may. But, Michael Murphy or Dr. Honeycutt could move into that district and get half the Black votes in the general election in the 8th District walking in the door after this no vote on healthcare reform. They would have made the same vote but use the pro-Obama sentiment when you can.

    Cue James Brown’s the Big Payback

    • Clone Of B. Plyler says:

      No, SLYram ..let’s go w/ Sly & The Family Stone’s ..”if you want me to stay, I’ll be around today…” Let’s put some real funk to the situation.

    • Hi slyram,

      Thanks for the thoughtful and informative response. I’ve got to kick this around the old brainpan here.

      A JC Watts would take this district hands-down. I’ve had the great pleasure of hearing him speak on several occasions and he never failed to move people to tears and uplifted spirits all in the same speech. He would be inline with the vast majority of this district.

      I’ll also check out your blog.

      Thanks, again!

  10. DMZDave says:

    There are a lot folks tossing grenades at Marshall rather than saluting hiim for doing the right thing and opposing Obamacare. Jim Marshall has one tragic flaw – he voted for Nancy Pelosi to be Speaker. But beyond that here’s some things about Jim Marshall I haven’t seen discussed.

    I believe he spent more time in combat in Vietnam than the entire Georgia Congressional delegation (House and Senate combined.) He is the Chairman of the West Point Board of Visitor. Both his father and grandfather were grads and were general officers in the Army. He’s a member of the Ranger Hall of Fame. He is sixth ranking on the House Armed Services Readiness Committee which authorizes funding for Warner Robins Air Logistics Center which is kind of important in his district. He is a close friend of the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee Ike Skelton so he gets help for his district from the Chairman. He dropped out of Princeton as a young freshman to fight in Vietnam as an infantry grunt and led troops in combat and as a “smart guy” they probably tried to move him to staff in the rear. The guy never took the staff jobs. He stayed with his troops because he’s an ornery guy who probably knew he was best qualified to keep them alive. As an American war hero, the guy’s the real “muddy boots on the ground,” head-to-head with the NVA/Viet Cong hero day in and day out. I’m guessing most of those commenting don’t have any idea what kind of character it took to do that back then but he gets a lot of credit from me for his incredible heroism in Vietnam. He wasn’t a John Kerry “get me outta here and leave my guys behind” hero but the real deal. I cut him slack for being a Dem on most things except for the Nancy Pelosi vote.

    • DMZDave,

      You WON’T see me attack Marshall for serving his country. I also applaud his many trips (nearly 30) to Iraq and Afghanistan; however, that’s not how I measure his effectiveness as a US Representative.

      1 – No bills offered his first four years in office.
      2 – 21 bills offered in the past four years but only 1 was even discussed. It was passed.
      3 – The one bill passed was to add one word to the title of a national monument located in Macon.
      4 – He holds no leadership positions on any committee.
      5 – He serves on two committees
      6 – He holds no leadership position within his party
      7 – He may be on the House Armed Services Committee, but the majority of his party is not military friendly and has not been for nearly 50 years.
      8 – He is NOT vocal in supporting the views of his district even when he votes as his district would like.
      9 – He is a back-bencher by any reasonable definition.
      10 – He is not a reliable conservative vote because he is not a conservative.
      11 – You can’t get a straight answer out of the man on anything remotely important or controversial.
      12 – Call his office tomorrow and ask his staff how he will vote on the health care bill. Today all they would say is, “Congressman Marshall voted against the first health care bill.” Press them and you will NOT get a definitive answer on the upcoming health care vote in the US House.

    • benevolus says:

      Well as long as we are taking potshots at unrelated personalities… at least Kerry WENT to Nam. And he actually got shot at. And wounded.
      Republicans are famous for being willing to…. have other people serve.

      • GOPGeorgia says:


        Are you Spiderman? All I see you do is spin. President Bush (41) was a WWII pilot and was shot down. He was the youngest naval aviator at the time.

      • polisavvy says:

        And what about John McCain? Last time I checked he was shot down, captured, and tortured in Nam.

      • ByteMe says:

        And yet it’s interesting that there are examples of Republicans who have served admirably… and those Republicans NEVER EVER question anyone else’s military service. So when one does….

        • polisavvy says:

          Agreed. I just jumped in on McCain’s service because I think people have a tendency to forget about him on occasions. I personally admire the man for what he went through during those years of captivity. I don’t necessarily agree with everything he does, though. I think that anyone who serves in this country’s military deserves recognition (regardless of political affiliation) and I think they deserve the gratitude and respect of a grateful nation.

  11. Bucky Plyler says:

    Whil I appreciate hi service, I think John Kerry must have had too much exposure to agent orange while he was in Nam.

  12. slyram says:

    Rep. Marshall situation in the House Democratic Caucus is similar to former Rep. Doug Barnard of Augusta. Barnard was an expert on banking and finance issues who was passed over for full committee chair because he was conservative. They aren’t going to let Marshall do much when he is so far from the average urban caucus member. You can see that “I don’t need this mess” look in his eyes. He could switch to the GOP and be more comfortable. I am not mad at the guy for representing what he feels the district wants.

    In a district like that, you can’t make everyone happy all the time and he must be doing something magical for the Dem base in Macon to continue to back him. Marshall’s field marshal skills are brilliant because the alternative from the Right is usually too much of a departure for swing voters. When the GOP looks down the bench, they don’t see a Scott Brown but they could be looking in the wrong place. News reporters and anchor personalities have name recognition and general public trust. As a kid, I was watching the Albany local news when Dawson Mathis said on-air that he was leaving to run for congress. After congress, he would thrown the coolest St. Patrick’s Day party in D.C.

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