Byte thanks for the book reference, I am getting it. Indy, thanks for the synopsis until I do.

Nobody can really ever say, “We didn’t know, or were never told.”

Hope this is all a crisis that can be averted, otherwise, the ‘Buy Guns and Ammo crowd” might just be right.

Each side had several goals. All sides shared the goal of “sounding reasonable” and I think they all got there. The Obama goal was to seem engaged in the process and to play referee and he did that well by there not being any food fights.

The (D) goal was to make it seem like the (R)’s were being unreasonable in obstructing because the two sides shared so many of the same goals and I think that except for a couple of points where clear distinction was made that they reached their goal.

The (R) goal was to publicly clarify their specific objections to the bill (other than “it’s 2400 pages long”, which is a stupid argument for stupid people) and make it clear they had reasonable ideas that might work in context of a health care economy overhaul. They got there for the most part, although the issue of 3 million more covered at a higher cost vs. 30 million covered at a lower cost is going to still hurt them with the bulk of the population.

A few on both sides got past the talking points and made very specific recommendations and regardless of which side, that was good meat that the media will largely ignore.

So my view is that both parties came off as a bunch of reasonable windbags.

My only other conclusion is that John McCain should never again be put in that position.

Seriously, though, all three sides made their talking points in a mostly reasonable way and I think both sides came out winners on a day where everyone was out there without a net on the high wire. It’s not an open thread or I’d go further on that.

As to “crisis of confidence” that happens when your creditors are not 100% positive you can repay your debt. The more debt you load up, the more often you get a crisis (because when you owe $100 to me it’s your problem, but when you owe me $1,000,000, it’s my problem). Back in 2008, no one was sure whether banks were going to be able to pay back the leverage (debt) they had built up, so there was a crisis in confidence in the banking systems across the globe. But the sovereigns stepped up and guaranteed much of the debt before it turned into a full-scale worldwide debt-deleveraging depression. Confidence in the banks is starting to return, but they still have to work through the debt issue, and that takes several years to do it in an orderly fashion.

As to our government debt… Cheney famously said “deficits don’t matter” to which anyone who knew better would add “until they do.” Right now, people do not have a crisis of confidence in the USA’s ability to pay off their debt. The PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Iceland, Greece, Spain) are first in line for that distinction. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, of course, just that the day is not here yet or even on the horizon, given how low our interest rates currently are. Greece’s debt is going at 7% right now, which tells you about the relative risk premium people want for their debt relative to ours.

I’m optimistic that a politician will come along and explain that the overzealous tax cuts since 1981 just caused us to finance our government on debt instead of revenue and that it’s time for the government to start raising revenue in excess of spending and using the excess to pay down the debt regardless of whether that causes a short-term hit on the economy. I doubt it’ll be a Republican telling us that, though, since that Republican would never make it out of the primaries.

Well-stated stuff. Both of you are perhaps a little more optimistic than I am.

A “crisis of confidence” would pretty much make Indy’s predictions much closer. People will start to feel that the old rules don’t apply and then you have more serious problems than those related to fiscal and monetary matters.

At this point I don’t see us headed there even after today’s health care summit (or photo-op) and the amazing amount of arrogance on display. It was almost blinding.

I agree, but there are a million potential one-liners just floating there like a batting practice fastball waiting to be knocked out of the park.

Ahh, baseball season! I am in anticipation already!

I’ll bet Jason Heyward is the starting line-up on opening day.

“Dear Penthouse . . .”

Nor he.

The battle plan will cause great consternation, but it isn’t a Tolkien novel.

Of course, the prospect of requiring a lawyer to fix problems caused by so many before them could be construed as involving “excruciating pain” in and of itself.