Remember, if you show up to try to tell him Obamacare is a bad idea, you are nothing but a corporate stooge bought and paid for by lobbyists.
Monday, August 10 from 7 to 9 p.m.
Georgia Perimeter College Clarkston Campus
Cole Auditorium/FineArtsCenter
555 North Indian Creek Drive
Clarkston, GA 30021
{ 112 comments }
Everyone should show at this TownHall and let Congressman Johnson know that you oppose Obama Care.
Tea Party protestors are being call hooligans by posters on the Huffington Post. I consider that as a badge of honor.
Yes, please show your lily white behinds down in Clarkston after dark and yell loud obscenities at Hank in a crowd filled with his friendly supporters.
Can we pre-call to schedule the ambulances you’ll need?
What if they don’t yell obscenities?
Then likely they’ll do just fine. It’s like the hero holding a tube of nitroglycerin in the movies, y’know? One false move or noise…. BOOM!
Bill – I won’t be there.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/04/obama-and-dnc-try-turning_n_250890.html
Everyone should show at this TownHall and let Congressman Johnson know that you oppose Obama Care.
Not until some lobbyist buys and pays for me. I’m no sap.
Exactly. Only the stupid don’t hold out for the big money that corporate-funded “Freedomworks” is throwing around to create this “organic” astroturf.
A new job for Andre maybe
I’m against Obama’s proposals, but what alternative are we putting out there?
How are we addressing those with pre-existing conditions who cannot even get approved for health insurance?
What are we doing about providing some base level of health care coverage for people to help drive down long term health costs?
At some point, we have to have an alternative and not just scream and hollar like lunatics…
Bingo.
Bingo? Are we playing bingo now? That would be fun.
Really? I never thought that you were in the do something so you can say you did something crowd.
Our health care system is the best in the world, the only thing GOVERNMENT can do is make it worse.
Perhaps the problem lies in Washington, not everywhere else.
“At some point, we have to have an alternative and not just scream and hollar like lunatics…”
but that wouldn’t be nearly as fun as playing politics while healthcare kills us.
HR 1495? HR 2516? HR 3218? HR 3400? The five Mac Thornberry bills?
There’s plenty of ideas out there. Our leadership just hasn’t settled on one. I personally like HR 2516 best.
Point being Holly, if the “leadership hasn’t settled”, then the leadership doesn’t have a plan, nor an effective response.
I’ve been writing for some time that I don’t have the answer to the health care issue, back to when we were in the Congressional majority.
And I almost always included that if we didn’t come up with a real solution, we would end up accepting the Dem solution when it was forced upon us.
We’re now at the stage of voting on the Dems plan (not exactly a surprise on the schedule), and our “leadership” still hasn’t settled on their plan.
And you wonder why I have difficulty still supporting these clowns…
“HR 1495? HR 2516? HR 3218? HR 3400? The five Mac Thornberry bills?
There’s plenty of ideas out there. Our leadership just hasn’t settled on one. I personally like HR 2516 best.”
Kind of like the football team that has two starting quarterbacks…which really means, they have NO starting QB. Which reminds me, when does fantasy football start Icarus? Maybe we could have a live draft this year? Although I’d still have to go incognito
And you wonder why I have difficulty still supporting these clowns…</i.
I've yet to see any "sign" of that difficulty…
Since the healthcare protesters I’ve seen are usually older conservative white folks, I’ll be amazed if that demographic is anywhere near Memorial Drive around sunset.
Many senior citizens are pretty upset about Obama Care and they should be. The crowd is not mainly older white folks.
RSC alternative proposal.
http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/Solutions/EmpoweringPatientsFirstAct.htm
The bottom line is that Congressmen and Senators that support Obama’s socialistic plans should just get used to upset voters and protests. We are not going away… I just love Saul Alinsky’s book, “Rules for Radicals”.
Actually, most seniors don’t care as long as Medicare isn’t messed with.
And the RSC “proposal” is more “do nothing”, which has worked not at all so far.
A lot of us young folks are upset about it as well.
We get the honor of paying for all of this.
Heck, we’ve already come to grips with the fact that there will be no social security for us when we retire. What’s one more unfunded obligation?
Don’t worry, you’ll have to die at the age of 65 so Social Securty won’t be needed.
The same government that mismanaged Social Security into almost bankruptcy now want to take over and run the best healthcare system in the world…
There’s that stupid meme again “the best healthcare system in the world…”. Except it’s not. Not even in the top 20 at this point.
Out of the top 20 countries that you claim have better health care, can you name a few advancements in medicine that they have pioneered? The last time I checked, most major medical advancements came from the US. (Cat scans, MRI, pharmaceuticals)
I’m unclear here. Are you saying we shouldn’t control costs so that pharma companies can invent more cool things? Or are you saying that reigning in insurance company abuse and quantum profits is going to keep pharma from inventing more stuff?
If there’s an adequate profit to be made from creating something, they’ll create it. That’s how business works. But why should citizens of the USA pay significantly more for drugs than Canadians pay for the exact same drug? Why should insurance companies make 15+% profit for denying health care treatment when the government is willing to do it for a mere 4%?
I really don’t get your point (obviously).
I am saying that the system that we have allows for more research with a profit motive. I am not saying it’s perfect.
Controlling costs is not the same thing as controlling profits. Insurance companies need some type of reform and there needs to be tort reform as well. I agree that Canadians and Americans should pay the same for medicine. Let’s stop selling it to them cheaper that we sell it to ourselves. Of course, this is all done under the general welfare clause, and I don’t really agree with that argument either.
I am asking you to name any medical breakthroughs by any of the other 20 countries that you think have better healthcare systems.
I think you missed the underlying points of my question as it relates to your question: does it matter where it was created or does it matter more where it’s being sold for more money than somewhere else?
You never heard me say (or saw me write?) that Pharma developers and innovators need fixing, just the way we go about buying and consuming healthcare in this country. Pharma innovators will exist and flourish regardless. And likely they’ll still be here because we have some of the best research universities — where a lot of this product research gets started — and great access to capital and knowledgeable employees. Has nothing to do with whether we have government running a competing healthcare system.
I think the healthcare fix that’s being propose will kill development. I disagree that research will go on as normal. R & D is a part of a budget for a company and if you cut it’s profits, it will start cutting other items in the budget to try to stay profitable or even in business.
It won’t be a competing health care system, it will be THE health care system. It will be just a matter of time before insurance companies start failing like dominos, if this plan passes.
Fortunately, I don’t think it’s going to pass, at least not as originally proposed. I don’t know how bad it’s going to be, but remember, it’s being offered to us (forced down our throats) by they congress that gave us cash for clunkers, and they couldn’t even do that right.
I’m saying that the U.S. Constitution NOWHERE gives the federal government the power to involve itself in this issue AT ALL.
But who cares, right?
About what you’re trying to say, Bill, yes, “who cares?”
The people have already voted that they want it. You lost. Time to accept it. Being a birther just makes you more amusing.
Byteme,
I am still waiting on examples of medical breakthroughs from any of your 20 superior health care systems.
GOPG: I decided to agree to disagree. You’re wrong, but you have nothing to fall back on except that “you think” that investment in new technology will decline after the government starts competing with the insurance companies. Except that the government is investing heavily in prosthetic research through the DoD for vets returning from Iraq/Afghanistan — something the free market didn’t do so well — and those companies are loving it as are the vets who now can do things with those prosthetics that they never could do before.
So, since the best you can bring to the table is “you think”, why should I bother trying to debate about it?
Bill Greene are you calling for the end of Medicare?
Apparently we have decided to disagree. You said 20 other countries are superior to ours in health care. I challenged you (3 separate times) to site where any of those countries are superior to ours in medical research. You can’t, and that’s where I have proven that YOU are wrong.
You made the claim and you can’t back it up, at least not in medical technology breakthroughs.
GOPG: jeez. Get off your horse. Healthcare is not all about R&D. It’s primarily about delivery of services (add your own adjectives to round out the sentence).
You want your info, go use Google, that’s what it’s there for. I’m sure you’ll be able to discover that aspirin was a French and German invention. And Ibuprofen is a British invention. And on and on.
You still haven’t made any point other than R&D is sometimes better here. Whoopie. As I said: we agree to disagree, because you aren’t coming to the table with anything other than a supposition and no facts to back it up.
ByteMe,
I think you’re being a bit too dismissive of Doug’s argument.
One of the reasons that many believe that we have the best healthcare system in the world is because of the number of foreigners, those with the ability to pay, that come here for medical treatment.
They come here because we are generally on the cutting edge of medical technology. That is specifically because of R&D.
It’s always easy for the left to dismiss the “profit motive” as a reason for action or inaction in an economy. In fact, many on the left believe profits are inherently bad or even evil. That’s at the root of many differences between right and left.
I’ll concede we have huge delivery problems, and the way medical treatment is funded in this country is hugely inefficient.
But your dismissal of concerns of what happens to our system years from now if R&D stalls demonstrates that you have no interest in truly understanding the opposition, nor trying to work to find “the best” solution, as opposed to just passing your solution.
I’m being dismissive, because there’s no shown correlation between having government pay for healthcare delivery and whether research and development continues in a country.
We have R&D here because of our exceptional universities and our easy access to capital (both money and learned employees) as well as our strong laws governing rights of ownership.
We are not in the top 20 in healthcare because we pay more to get poorer results in numerous categories of healthcare effectiveness.
Now what GOPG is saying is that medical/technical R&D companies will leave if we get the government involved so that we — as a nation — start paying less to get better results. I’m not buying that as a logic outcome and he has presented no evidence so far that that is going to be the case. He only “thinks” it, which is enough for him, but not enough for me, so we agree to disagree and move on to something more productive.
No, what he’s saying (or trying to, I think) is that with R&D comes an expectation of ROI – Return on Investment.
Eliminate the profit motive, and you’ve eliminated ROI. Universities are only a piece of the puzzle, and government funding will always have a political element in choosing which projects are “worthy”. These are just some of the limitation that would hinder R&D going forward.
And, if you’re going to fight fair, you really can’t fault him for not producing any evidence for his argument when you won’t produce the names of the countries he asked for.
Right now, you’re both just talking past each other.
Carry on.
BTW, I also don’t think I’ve anywhere stated that I like the healthcare bills as they’re presently constituted. But they’re an improvement over the our current f**ked up system of putting (in many cases requiring) a for-profit insurance company between me and my doctor controlling what the doctor can and cannot provide to me for my healthcare needs.
I already gave him two examples, Icarus. He can go look up the others for himself. Google is your friend.
So if I understand you right, by being the only country willing to overpay for expensive new healthcare inventions, we’re helping R&D stay here?? Is that really the argument you want to hang your hat on? Even without any evidence, that seems like something you wouldn’t want to try to sell to the average person struggling to pay off medical bills or keep their insurance when the insurance company is trying to rescind their coverage entirely once a tumor is found.
Google is backing healthcare.
No, I’m saying there is a huge delivery problem combined with a system that only requires some people to pay for everyone’s care in an inefficient manner.
When you seek to take profit out of that system, you also take profit out of R&D, which isn’t, in my humble opinion, part of the problem, despite the contant demonization of the evil drug companies.
So, by trying to fix a delivery problem, you create a R&D problem.
Icarus: again, if we take the 15%+ profit the insurance companies are making for getting between us and our doctors and instead pay 4% to the government for that privilege… R&D slows down?? If we say to Pharma companies that they can’t charge us more than they charge Canadians — or pick any country in Europe for that matter — for the same drugs… R&D slows down?
If so, what does that say about how much we’re overpaying to subsidize the world?
Again: is that really the logic you want to hang your hat on when you try to explain it to middle America?
It’s pretty easy to hang our hat on, using Medicare as a real world example.
Started out as promised, but a “little” over budget. Taxes went up, but costs went up faster. Eventually, raising taxes wasn’t tolerable, so costs started to be attacked. Now, providers are limited to the amounts that they will receive for medi-care reimbursements, some of which are below cost.
As a result, many providers have stopped accepting Medicare patients. Don’t belive me? Talk to someone over 65. The market will find a way to ration these services, no matter how much we’re told there’s no rationing in this bill.
The R&D of the drug companies works the same way. As costs grow, and they will, caps on what can be provided and at what cost will tighten. Even the risk of that happening changes the ROI model for medical research, as increased risk of return increases the threshold that must be achieved for a drug project to be deemed a likely success.
You can change whatever laws you want with this bill, except the laws of economics.
And what you say sounds reasonable… but it doesn’t change two things:
1. We do NOT have the best healthcare in the world (or even in the top 20), but we do have the most expensive.
2. Our more expensive health care is subsidizing lower cost, higher quality health care in other countries (according to your explanation that we have to pay more than everyone else in order for these things to exist at all).
Again, just try using that explanation in middle America when you tell people why you don’t want a public option for health insurance.
byteme –
Most of America is against this government option so why do you keep bringing them up? And could you please name the 20 countries that have better healthcare than we do? I would like to know where all the rich people go for care.
Kellie, you’re not reading the polls right. Most of the country wants it once it’s explained to them with facts instead of using the terms like “socialism”, “marxism” and… ugh… “Naziism”.
Meanwhile, the answer to your question can be found by Google-ing “best healthcare in the world”.
Do any of the most likely proposals regulate anything except insurance? I don’t think so. So, what “R&D” will insurance companies not do anymore? Or is the argument that the insurance companies will force lower profits onto drug companies and medical equipment manufacturers? That’s a stretch.
Besides, if insurance companies need to replace any lost profits, they can just raise the rates on car insurance or ship insurance or homeowners insurance or buy more real estate. They are not hurting for revenue streams.
Not only that, nothing I have seen prevents them from offering supplemental insurance. They don’t even have to participate in the “portal” or whatever it’s called. In France, 75-80% of the people have supplemental insurance. The insurance companies are doing just fine.
byteme,
Bless your heart.
Half the country is against this but you think it’s because they can’t read.
Aspirin was created in the 1890s. Ibuprofen was created in the 1960’s. That’s 2 examples; one a hundred years old, and another 50 years old. Has Cuba done anything to advance the world of medicine lately? I’m not saying America is the only place where medical breakthroughs occur, but our current system has a disproportionate amount of research compared to the rest of the world, and a lot of that is because of a profit incentive. Universities and government funding have their place, but removing for profit R & D is a bad move.
You are coming to the table with the supposition that R & D will happen “somewhere.” You have nothing to prove to that will be the case. “….Since the best you can bring to the table is “you think”, why should I bother trying to debate about it?” Well you are being a hypocrite. You want proof, but you are unwilling to supply any. If I can’t prove my arguments beyond all reasonable doubt, then you don’t feel like you have to prove your statements. Don’t let little things like facts and logic get in your way.
Our current system will be more likely to cure cancer than the proposed system. (That’s just my opinion and I can’t prove it without curing cancer.) I am not saying that R & D will leave, I am saying that it will slow down.
If you are looking for a correlation between having government pay for healthcare delivery and whether research and development continues in a country, let’s see your list of countries and examine what they have brought to the table in terms of R & D. If you are unwilling to provide a list, then you are conceding that the more socialized the medical delivery system the less there will be in R & D.
Btw, this is not my only argument that what is being proposed will not be better than what we have now, but just my first. We can make improvements on what we have now, I am just saying that congress is headed in the wrong direction. Tort reform would be a good place to start.
You don’t like a for-profit insurance company between you and your doctor controlling what the doctor can and cannot provide to you for your healthcare needs? Fine. I understand that. Make a lot of money (don’t get it all taxed away) and self insure. What you are suggesting is that we take the for profit insurance company out of the picture and we replace them with a government bureaucracy. Cash for clunkers ran out of money in a week. Now we have no more 15% profit going to the insurance companies. Government will decide that $1.25 is too much for us to pay for a pill and they will only pay .99. Now do you understand how a government take over will start to squeeze R & D, or do I have to connect the dots even better for you?
Benevolus – “Besides, if insurance companies need to replace any lost profits, they can just raise the rates on car insurance or ship insurance or homeowners insurance or buy more real estate.” Is that just another way of saying they can take my money when I purchase something other than health care?
85% believe the health care system needs major reform, and 72% favor a government sponsored plan. They just get a little bunchy when some people lie about what this reform means.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html
GOP, if the assumption is that insurance companies must maintain current levels of profitability, then I’m just saying they have plenty of ways to do that. That in itself is not a reason to oppose this reform.
So, you must have been against the ban on stem cell research, eh? That probably did more to stifle medical research in this country than reforming the way we do insurance policies will. And should we stop allowing foreign students at our schools? After all, many of them take their new knowledge back home with them. That surely hurts our R&D efforts too.
Let’s have your next point, I don’t think this one justifies many more pixels.
Byte,
I’ll hold a fundraiser to buy you a one-way ticket so you can go to Mexico to have that sex-change operation you want, but no US doctor will perform for you.
Really, “Bill”, if that is your real name, you should get up off that Symbian, because clearly you have something uncomfortable stuck up your a$$.
“The best healthcare system in the world”
Except for the minor details that it costs far more than all other industrialized countries per capita and leaves 15% of the population without coverage.
Did you mean to say that it works for YOU and that your talking points memo said to repeat the phrase “best healthcare system in the world” as much as possible?
Also, Im willing to bet that you would be surprised to find out which administration started the trend of dipping into social security.
It doesn’t “leaves 15% of the population without coverage”. People without insurance can still use the system and when you take out the illegals, the young that will not pay for insurance and the older people who actually qualify for medicare, the number is about 2%. If it weren’t for the regulations and unwanted coverage forced on us by the government, coverage would be cheaper.
I will concede the 15% number is debateable, but 2% is dream land.
“The young that will not pay for insurance”… Could some of them be working people who would have a very difficult time affording high premiums with their after-tax income?
So do you think that the exploding cost of health care is fueled solely by “regulations and unwanted coverage forced on us by the government”?
Kellie, do you think that we have “the best healthcare system in the world”?
I didn’t have health insurance between the ages of 19 – 25 because I didn’t think it was worth paying for. After all, I was young and healthy and a doctor’s appointment was cheaper than monthly payments. Besides insurance is supposed to be for the unexpected so why are we using it for stuff like maternity? That is hardly unexpected. Insurance needs to be for catastrophic events, not the everyday cold. If it were used that way premiums would be much lower.
I do think we have the best healthcare system. Our problem is, all the bad politicians trying to fix a problem they caused with another bill they did not write nor did they read.
BTW – if someone could not afford coverage now, how will they afford it when it’s “free”? The “rich” cannot support the world. Those who would not spend the money to buy insurance will see their taxes go up to pay for this massive plan.
Does anyone like their health insurance policy who does not have a government job?
I like mine. It’s not cheap but I haven’t had any problems with it.
We pay about $12K per year for medium deductible plan, but it was a struggle getting my wife covered because of “pre-existing condition” that hasn’t happened for over 10 years now. I’m fine paying that money to the government just as much as I’m fine paying it to an insurance company… provided that I get the same level of coverage or have the ability to buy more. Pretty sure all that’s already there in the bills, so I have no complaints at this point.
I love mine. I have mine through my employer
we are pretty happy right now–we have a high deductible plan that is fairly inexpensive–at least to us after paying for “normal” ins. for several years, and pay for most routine stuff out of an hsa–but we are both relatively young and relatively healthy…
JK
Yes and I want government involved in my life as little as possible. Government is not and cannot be the answer to most questions/issues/problems an individual faces.
This will be a large event, TV cameras, chance to be on Youtube, bring your most outrageous signs. This could also be a good chance for the Libertarians to win converts from the angry Republicans. I doubt there will be enough room in the building for everyone who wants to come. So come early.
You want converts from the angry Republicans or converts because of the angry Republicans?
Be careful what you wish for.
aquaman
I am for the free market but healthcare is not free market in U.S. Under the current system county hospital is forced to treat people even without money and or insurance. Also if we do not treat viruses can spread and put all of us at risk.
This is similar to the car insurance issue. A guy hit my car a few weeks ago without insurance and it cost me money and time. At least he will face the justice system but at the end of the day he took away my rights.
Some of you chant free market and claim you are taking the risk but at the end of the day if something goes bad with your health and you do not have the money and or insurance like Congressional candidate Jeremy Jones you end up getting a subsidy (directly and or indirectly) which we all pay for.
As far as insurance especially heath care I find many times it is a wrestling match to get a claim paid. Also they also tend to find any excuse to exclude coverage to help with the bottom line. And this is the real catch 22, because what the insurance company does not cover is then forced on the tax payers one way or another. This is why health related reasons are a major factor with BK and many even have insurance.
In a normal business the business is not forced to take the risk via the customer. And the business cannot go to the county and raise taxes to cover loses on customers that did not pay.
Please help me understand how this is a free market system? And please give me a real solution that deals with the reality of situation?
ByteMe
The truth is private and or public cannot provide good coverage unless some tough decisions are made on coverage, end of life, nurses being used over doctors, wellness over pay per procedure, mandatory pay….the system can not sustain itself.
Both sides are not being straight about the real issues because most people want to think they get the service without dealing with the cost. And any rational person who understands our debt problem knows without solving the rising cost of Medicare and healthcare our economy cannot sustain itself.
This reminds of the out of control lending issues I warned about years ago. People want to think they can drive new cars and live in a 500k house and not make the money it takes to afford the life style.
We need real adults who care enough about their children to do the right thing and sacrifice enough now to get our fiscal house in order. Look in your kids eyes and tell me if you think our generation has acted responsible ?
As a nation, we do better under pressure
Of course we don’t have any adults left. The last TWO generations have had it drummed into their heads that they can have more government spending AND less taxes. And that they don’t have to eat their vegetables or do their own homework.
ByteMe
I agree!
JK,
Full disclosure: I haven’t read the entire bill and I’m not suggesting the “market” could perfect health care to everyone’s satisfaction (of course neither can government). All I’m saying is government as we know it today at every level is broken and therefore in my opinion can’t, by definition, “fix” anything. Does anyone think the clowns (R’s or D’s) in congress can make their life better by intruding into it more? I do not and therefore unless they are proposing legislation to get the hell out of my life I’m generally opposed to it unless a preponderance convinces me otherwise.
If it’s so broken, how could we provide the best healthcare in the world to our military? All 26 million of them with government healthcare. Or are you saying our military is getting substandard healthcare?
I am not advocating the current bill because I do not think it deals with the core issue of cost. But at the end of the day the reality is Medicare is not going away. Also county hospitals will still treat people who cannot pay and or do not have insurance.
If we accept the above reality because neither party has not proposed eliminating it how do we solve the problem?
I sort of like pitchorks , tar buckets and torchs. LOLOLOLOL
@John Konop RE: Tough decisions ‘end of life’:
Most people ought to know that really sick babies and the last few weeks/months of are the most costly medical encounters a person could have.
I believe that everyone, without an updated set of Advance Directives, ought to be at risk for whatever outcome their health insurance provides. I further believe mandatoryAdvance Directives ought to be part of each insureds file.
For those that may not know, Advance Directives are specific ‘instructions’ for medical professionals to follow based on specific situations. Advance Directives are often confused with a Living Will, with painful consequences during an emotional time period. Hospital personnell cannot and will not try to interpret a Living Will, wherease Advance Directives spell out a patiens wishes in a variety of common medical situations.
If everyone had Advance Directives, a large portion of the cost of end of life care would be resolved. Why? Becuase if you choose very costly options, your insurer can attach a corresponding optional cost rider to your policy.
Hank, if you are listening please look into mandatory Advance Directives
Sick babies are another story for another time.
B Balz
You make a very good point! Also I wonder how mush proper pre-natal care plays into saving money on sick baby cost.
Sorry
…much…
Some. But some things are also totally outside of anyone’s control, like Downs Syndrome, situations where the baby becomes entangled in the umbilical cord and so on. You can’t well-care your way through those situations, sadly.
@byte True enough. Public policy, and more importantly, expenditure of public funds ought to address situations that can be controlled.
Insuring pre natal care and Advance Directives ought to be part of ALL health insurance packages.
Byte,
How many Walter Reed stories do you want me to post? Are you suggesting our government is performing at anything like an acceptable level? I’m sorry I just don’t see any positives.
I think that maybe Byte should have referred to veteran’s healthcare, not military – VA hospitals in recent years provide good service at low costs, as far as I understand. Walter Reed is a military hospital, subject to an entirely different bureaucracy. I think the lesson is that government-run services can be good or bad depending on who’s in charge and who’s paying attention.
When the President or member of Congress has a medical emergency, where do they get their healthcare? Walter Reed, usually.
You saying they’re not getting the best of the best?
Yes, WR had some problems… and the people in charge — all the way up the food chain — were fired as soon as those problems came to light.
But that’s just one hospital and our military are all over the world and still get free healthcare courtesy of our government. Are you really saying they’re not getting the best healthcare money can buy?
(And, yes, the VA, although still with problems, provides very good healthcare to our veterans for a fraction of the cost that the normal population pays in the “free market”.)
http://912marchondc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/georgia-by-land-912-march-on
Join us for the 9-12 March on D.C.
America’s Health Care Town HallShare
Today at 12:42am
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Allen Hardage, 678-977-0896 allen@americastownhall.us
Wednesday, August 5, 2009
NATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS STAND UNIFIED IN LARGEST HEALTH CARE TOWN HALL TO DATE
Key Note Speaker Congressman Dick Armey
Town Hall Moderator Talk Show Host Herman Cain
Signatory Host Talk Show Host Joel Aaron
August 5, 2009 – More than twenty national organizations dedicated to free market, patient centered No comma here health care reform are coming together with small business owners to discuss positive health care reform and call for the defeat of the Democrats’ Democrats is plural, apostrophe after s health care reform plans.
20 groups representing more than 4.5 million members nationwide have confirmed their participation in America’s Health Care Town Hall on August 15, 2009 from
Any press release containing the phrase “No comma here” is suspect.
Oh, and let’s see… the headliners are a lobbyist and two wingnut minor league talk show hosts. Okaaaaayyy……
1 p.m. to 4 p.m. in Atlanta’s Centennial Olympic Park. The event is being held to show the size and diversity of opposition to the Democrat’s same as above health care reform bill that has caused so much controversy in the last couple of months.
5 years from now we will be stringing up doctors [and government health officals] for failing to tell us whites and especially dark skin people about the plan to create disease by making the world deficient [sunscreens and worthless low levels of supplements] in Vitamin D to slow population growth.
Now UV from sunbeds cause cancer, LIVING without adequate sunshine causes cancer [253 different types] without the proper nutrition, we were made to receive.
Professional Life guards rarely get cancer and autoimmune diseases like Diabetes, MS, and 49 others.
Do yourself and your family a favor and search Google for: Vitamin D + Cancer!
That is real Health Care!
Go to the beach now and save yourselves.
Byte,
“When the President or member of Congress has a medical emergency, where do they get their healthcare?” …I believe Bethesda Naval Hospital, not that it matters much here.
I’ll stand corrected on that minor point.
“Nearly 64 percent of Americans surveyed are unaware sunscreen hinders the body’s ability to produce vitamin D—a nutrient found beneficial to the immune system, bone strength, colon health, etc. “Vitamin D is important to overall health. People need to be aware sunscreen, even at SPF15, blocks more than 90 percent of the sun’s rays used to produce this vital vitamin,” warned Dr. Michael Holick, M.D., Ph.D. of Boston University.
The American Academy of Dermatology recommends the public obtain vitamin D from nutritional sources and dietary supplements, and not from unprotected exposure to ultraviolet (UV) radiation from the sun or indoor tanning devises, as UV radiation is a known risk factor for the development of skin cancer.
For optimal health, regular sunscreen users should consider nutritional vitamin D sources from their diet. But often dietary sources, including mackerel, sardines, salmon or fortified milk are not frequently consumed by Americans in the amounts needed to satisfy the daily allowance.
Vitamin D deficiency has garnered the attention of leading scientific and public health organizations. In April, the Archives of Internal Medicine reported more than 75 percent of Americans have vitamin D insufficiency. Last fall, The American Public Health Association called vitamin D deficiency/insufficiency “a major public health concern for both children and adults in the United States.”
Populations who may need additional vitamin D, according to the National Institutes of Health Office of Dietary Supplements include breastfed infants, people ages 50 and older, those with limited sun exposure, with dark skin, with fat mal-absorption and the obese. ”
The beach doesn’t work unless you limit noon sun to 20 minutes WITHOUT SUN SCREEN!
“Professional Life guards rarely get cancer and autoimmune diseases like Diabetes, MS, and 49 others.”
I’m a semi-pro lifeguard working my way up through the minor leagues…does that count?
As Karen would say: Bring it on Sunscreen industry!
Ok, now where did I leave my tin foil hat again?
I’m a semi-pro lifeguard working my way up through the minor leagues…does that count?
Did you ever make a guest appearance on Bay Watch?
Wow.
Y’all are getting the Ron Paul Supporter Experience y’all gave US.
Karma, baby.
LOL!
Given the Blue Ribbon set of panelists [CEO of Grady, etc.] I hope partisans don’t show their butt and make a spectacle at this forum. That would be anti-productive.
Here are the thoughts of a 40 year med school professor: Eliot Gardner
Please permit a medical school professor with 40 years of experience in the field to make a few observations:
1) By EVERY objective measure (longevity, infant mortality rates, life years without significant illness, cost to society as a percentage of GDP), our system of heath care is the absolute WORST of all economically developed nations. One doesn’t even need to compare us to other economically developed nations. Hell, Brazil and China have superior neonatal care than we do, and superior childhood immunization rates.
2) Yes, in every nation with a national health care system (whether the ultra free-market Canadian system or the ultra socialized medicine systems of Ireland and the UK, and all gradations in between), practice liability IS greatly diminished by a tort-averse legal system or by actual legal limits on malpractice awards or simply by far fewer malpractice lawsuits even in countries that don’t have tort-averse legal systems.
3) One of the reasons that there are far fewer malpractice lawsuits is that the QUALITY of medical care in those countries is SUPERIOR to ours. Yes, I know that’s hard to swallow for knee-jerk ultra conservatives who believe – as an absolute article of faith – that anything American must perforce be superior. But by all objective criteria and data, it’s true. And why is it true?
Because medical training in all developed countries outside North America is MUCH longer than it is here. The American 4-year-long medical school curriculum developed out of the Flexner Report – a report prepared in 1910 by a special investigatory commission under the aegis of the Carnegie Foundation.
The commission was charged with identifying the best model for medical training. Mind you, this was at a time when there were 1-year medical schools, 2-year medical schools, 3-year medical schools, and a few 4-year medical schools. Hell, in many American states, one didn’t even need to attend medical school to legally practice medicine. All that was required was to “read medicine” for a minimum of 6 months.
“Reading medicine” meant hanging around with a practicing physician for 6 months, reading the books in his medical library (often only 2 books – “Gray’s Anatomy” and “Materia Medica”), being at his side when he examined patients and made diagnoses, and being at his side when he treated patients. It was modeled on the apprenticeship concept. After as few as 6 months, the doctor would send a letter to the State Medical Society stipulating that “John Doe has successfully read medicine in my practice.”
And, hey presto, back would come a diploma awarding the M.D. degree to John Doe, who then became a practicing physician himself. Needless to say, American medical education in those days was a shambles. Most American physicians were flat-out incompetent. Many of the 1-year and 2-year medical schools were Mom-and-Pop operations with inadequate (or no) facilities and teaching that was of a pathetically low level.
Basically, American medical schools were “proprietary” in free-market terms – small trade schools owned by one or more doctors, unaffiliated with a college or university, and run to make a profit. The average length of study (post high school) was only 2 years. Laboratory work and dissection were not necessarily required. Many of the instructors were local doctors teaching part-time, whose own training left a lot to be desired.
The regulation of the medical profession by state government was minimal or nonexistent. American doctors varied enormously in their scientific understanding of human physiology, and the word “quack” flourished. And people were well aware of this reality. Back then, there was a 2-year medical school in Boston with the grand name of “The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Boston”, which was commonly referred to as the “Butcher Shop.”
The Flexner Commission investigated and deliberated for 2 full years before issuing its report. Flexner himself was the child of German immigrants, and had studied and traveled in Europe. He well knew that no one could practice medicine in continental Europe without having undergone extensive specialized university-based medical education. The Flexner Report was scathing. It stated that approximately 90% of American medical schools delivered “substandard” education and turned out “ill-trained and incompetent” graduates. The report pulled no punches.
For example, it described Chicago’s 14 medical schools as “a disgrace to the State whose laws permit their existence… indescribably foul… the plague spot of the nation.” However, some schools received praise for excellent performance, including Harvard, McGill, the University of Toronto, Western Reserve, and most especially Johns Hopkins – which was described as “the model for medical education.” The ONE commonality amongst all the best medical schools was the length of their curricula – 4 years of undergraduate premedical training, 4 years of medical school, 1 year of internship, and 3 years of residency. So that’s what the Flexner Commission recommended.
In effect, it demanded that American medical education conform to prevailing practice in continental Europe. And slowly, over the next 15 years, the 4-year medical school curriculum was made mandatory (by law) as state after state after state adopted the recommendations of the Flexner Report. Of course, knee-jerk free-market radicals unleashed a torrent of hatred and bile against state regulation of medical curricula, even engaging in such anti-Semitic smear tactics as calling the Flexner Report a “Jewish Plot” to destroy the free-market system of educational enterprise in this country.
So, anyway, that’s how the American 4-year medical school curriculum came into being. Approximately 80% of all American medical schools closed their doors and went out of existence because they could not meet the standards set out by the Flexner Report. Now, that was a full century ago. One hell of a LOT of new knowledge has emerged in medicine since 1910. Whole new fields and specializations have emerged. Whole new technologies have emerged. And all of this new stuff is ESSENTIAL to the competent practice of modern medicine.
Yet, here in America, we still hold fast to the 4-year medical curriculum. While all the rest of the world has radically extended the length of medical school – in order to allow students the time to absorb all of the essentials of modern medicine.
In Europe and in other economically developed nations, medical school is a minimum of 6 years long. In some countries, 7 years. In some countries, 8 years. As a result, European medical graduates are FAR more competent than American medical graduates. I saw this with my own eyes while on faculty at Albert Einstein Medical School in NYC for 33 years. I accepted both American and European medical students into my research group at Albert Einstein for research electives in neurology and neuroscience.
Without exception, the European students (often in their 7th year of medical school, out of an 8-year-long curriculum) were FAR better educated and FAR more competent than the American students. Many of the European medical students were BETTER at diagnosis and treatment than the American medical RESIDENTS (already 3 or 4 years past medical school) that I supervised. So, European physicians are by-and-large better physicians than American ones. And this translates very directly into better medical care. Hence, far fewer medical f***-ups. Hence, far fewer malpractice claims. Also, far less “defensive medicine.” Hence, lower costs.
4) Yes, in every nation with a national health care system, medical school is either free or involves minimal fees. So, yes, physicians in those countries enter into their careers with little or no debt burden.
5) Yes, in every nation with a national health care system, billing of physician charges and payment to physicians is electronic. Hence, no need for the extraordinarily high nonmedical personnel payroll expenses that burden American physicians. In Canada, most physicians or group medical practices have only a SINGLE receptionist. ONE.
6) Calling the AMA “the Union” is utter nonsense. Over the decades, the AMA has adopted such rigidly conservative right-wing knee-jerk positions that it has alienated virtually the entire medical profession. At present, fewer than 15% of practicing American physicians belong to the AMA. Most physicians consider the AMA to be a pathetic irrelevancy. And many are more scathing in their views.
7) Medical school reforms are NOT the province of the AMA. The AMA has almost to do with setting medical school standards. That task falls upon the shoulders of the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC), and specifically on the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME). Also upon state Commissions of Higher Education. The AAMC has no objection to free medical education in this country free (i.e., paid for by the government). After all, many existing state government-run medical schools (e.g., University of Massachusetts Medical School, Pennsylvania State University School of Medicine, University of Alabama School of Medicine) have tuition and fee schedules that are only a fraction of those at private medical schools. State tax dollars pay the bulk of the costs of educating students at state medical schools. The AAMC has absolutely no objection to this.
Eliot Gardner
B Balz, on behalf of Eliot,
Does he really think that we will respect his opinion more if he highlights it with vulgarity?
@GOP GA
I edited the profanity, but did not delete, just so you do understand, those are NOT my words.
I agree with you, the eff bombs DO take away from the intelligence and credibility of the message.
Not sure why the guy put ‘em in there, the message was great without them.
In response to GOPGeorgia’s claim that the U.S. is the leading pharmaceutical developer in the world: you’re wrong and have no data to back up your argument.
According to MedAdNews’ latest (September 2008) top 50 ranking of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, over half of them are non-U.S. companies. Twenty-two are headquartered in the U.S. , 15 are headquartered in Europe, 11 are headquartered in Japan, one is in Australia, and one is in Israel.
Furthermore, of the top 200 drugs selling in the world, most of them were developed by non-U.S. companies. This is according to MedAdNews’ July 2009 ranking. Let’s look at just the top 10, shall we? Of these drugs, six were developed fully by non-U.S. companies and the rest were developed in partnerships between U.S. and non-U.S. companies. None of the top 10 best-selling prescription drugs in the world were developed solely by U.S. based companies.
This observation is offered only to counter your argument that changing the healthcare system is somehow going to magically make the U.S. less competitive in pharma R&D. Your point is moot. End of this particular argument.
He had nothing but what “he thought” before, don’t know why you think that little things like facts are going to change his mind or his argument.
Uncle bubba,
You are saying out of the top 50 largest pharmaceutical companies, 22 of them are based in the US. That’s 44%, and what population does the US have compared to the rest of the world? In your top 10 drugs selling in the world, 40% had US involvement?
You make my case for me. Thank you.
My point was specifically referring to your argument that the U.S. is the most important and powerful innovator within the pharma industry as a direct result of our health care system. You reasoned that R&D only prospers maximally within a system like ours. This is the point I was countering.
I pointed out that non-U.S. companies are quickly becoming more important in the industry. I should have clarified my reasoning: none of these countries operate under a healthcare system like ours. My point? Innovation does not die under alternative healthcare systems. In fact, it thrives.
Based on the information provided, I merely showed that your argument is faulty. R&D continues and grows under alternative healthcare systems. It evens blossoms within healthcare systems that some might consider “socialized.”
I understand your point, that the U.S., as a nation, controls the largest market share. I don’t contest this. I do contest your assumption that only under the current system will the U.S. remain dominant. Other countries are rapidly taking away market share despite having healthcare systems that do not resemble the one we have. An alternative healthcare system will NOT destroy innovation. That is a fact proven by the data summary from MedAdNews and your argument about R&D was specious for this reason.
It has been said in this thread that there are 20 other superior health care systems throughout the world. I have asked for said list and been told that Google is my friend. I did see the names of three countries, France, Germany and Great Britain.
Let’s start with the French.
http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/hl711.cfm
“As Philippe Manière explains, France’s health care system faces an impending crisis. His overview here offers America’s health care reformers some valuable lessons.
Lesson #1: Universal coverage does not mean universal access to quality care. In France, health care is non-negotiable; it is simply unacceptable that a person should suffer from the lack of care. Although people should have access to some form of health care coverage, the result of France’s guarantee is a cash-strapped system riddled with abuse.
Lesson #2: Making across-the-board price cuts on pharmaceuticals to save money can have adverse effects. In France, such cuts tend to restrict research and development and to reduce the availability of cutting edge drugs, while other areas of medicine requiring significant reform are overlooked.”
Now British:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1019/p04s01-woeu.html
While not directly related to R & D, I though this was worth mentioning from 2007 “Health Secretary Alan Johnson was forced to apologize in Parliament this week after it emerged that at least 90 patients in southeast England died as a result of infections picked up in the hospital. ”
As for Germany, I think I like what I have read about their system, but I could not find much on the net discussing their R & D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GMKK_fWKg
Just be warned.
Everybody between the ages 0f 35-60 have serious problems. Not me (83) not those that are younger.
The younger crowd already knows they probably will not be able to retire. So why allow it? Afterall, the baby boomers have screwed everything up.
Get ready people. I have a granddaughter that I am pretty sure will be a Congressperson in 10 years. He agenda, like that of so many her age, will be simply to discontinue Medicare and Social Security before you baby boomers start accepting it.
You will be suprised to find out how much private insurance costs, if you are accepted, when you are over 60 and your employer isn’t covering the costs. Plan on retiring 5 years later…maybe 10,…maybe not at all.
Remember, baby boomers, you can not just rack up $11trillion in debt, leave healthcare in the hands of the private sector, not regulate industry, not overhaul education, etc and just pass on the bill. When your children and my grandchildren’s generation takes the reigns,…you will have problems.
Your ineptitude is going to force the hand of a paradigm shift. Obama is a buffer and is keeping the dialogue moderate to prevent ideological whiplash. Cherish him while he is still around. I only fear his successor.
GW – did I read that right? You sounded like you don’t like all the debt. I thought you loved Obama?
Of yeah…i couldn’t work it, but I love how the right wing is so creative with giving policy proposals names:
HilaryCare…ObamaCare.
What was BushCare? Corporate Welfare?!
@GW That is really an interesting post- The boomers screwed it up, huh?
I am leaving for Hank World, but will get back to you on this. Suffice it to sya, I don’t agree.
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