More on RomneyGingrich12

June 29, 2009 22:16 pm

by Buzz Brockway · 124 comments

Jim Galloway is asking about the Wikipedia incident:

We called Rothenberg this afternoon. The political analyst said he picked up information about the GED by talking to his Georgia contacts. Rothenberg acknowledged that he saw the information on Wikipedia as well, but said that’s not what he based his reporting on.

“I may have made a mistake,” Rothenberg said. But the columnist said he has also asked Handel’s staff for more information. “I’m waiting for a response,” he said. “I’m waiting for data on the woman’s life.”

Now, about Wikipedia. It is possible to trace those who make changes to its various entries.

PeachPundit operator Erick Erickson says he’s tracked down the author of the Handel/GED line, and he has fingered a member of the John Oxendine campaign.

Tim Echols, the new campaign manager for the Oxendine campaign, said he was only informed of the situation late Monday, and was still investigating the situation.

I’ll be interested to see what Echols discovers.

Bill Simon June 29, 2009 at 11:30 pm

PeachPundit operator Erick Erickson says he’s tracked down the author of the Handel/GED line, and he has fingered a member of the John Oxendine campaign.

Oooh! I cannot WAIT to see who Ace Erickson, The Blogger’s Detective Extraordinaire, has “fingered.”

OR…will it turnout that Erick might have to sit on his finger and rotate?

Stay tuned to the Bat Channel for more exciting updates tomorrow!

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 4:50 am

same Bat time, same Bat channel…

LOL

John Konop June 30, 2009 at 2:47 am

Bill

I have been fairly objective about Erick in the past. No can deny I have been a harsh critic as well as supported Erick when I thought he was in the right. On this issue any rational objective person can see this looks and smells like THE OX TEAM hands are all over this!

Karen and Steve are both very intelligent and competent people. As I said many times if anybody has issues with Karen based on policy that is all fair game. But for the OX TEAM to constantly attack her and spin the facts on this non- issue is ridiculous.

Bill I am especially amazed by you not defending Karen because both you and I have talked about many times over the years how much both you and I respect and like Karen.

I have met OX a few times and thought he came across well with his knowledge of issues. But the combination of OX pandering on bad policy and attacking Karen on a personal baseless nasty level has totally turned me off!

John Konop June 30, 2009 at 2:48 am

sorry

….No one can….

John Konop June 30, 2009 at 4:12 am

It also very important to take into consideration when looking at Erick’s post that the OX TEAM on numerous occasions already spread nasty rumors about Karen because she could not have kids via health reasons. And many on the OX TEAM are the same hit squad spewing the same false nasty rumors when she ran last time.

Steve Perkins June 30, 2009 at 5:20 am

This thing yesterday migrated from a moderately-sleazy incident (i.e. screwing with a Wikipedia page)… to a potentially seriously-sleasy incident (i.e. rushing to call out a political operative by name on a blog that’s read or indirectly followed by most potential employers).

I don’t know anything about Brian Laurens. He may very well have wrote on Karen Handel’s Wikipedia page that she has a GED. But it will be irresponsible in the extreme if Erick doesn’t end up posting some awfully detailed logs, or other rationale for calling this guy out publicly and boasting about getting the guy’s job terminated.

I was a bit surprised that a former law school student “went there” in such a rush. The possible risk involved if Erick has nothing on him is the main reason I suspect there’s probably something there. But Erick should disclose details and soon… because from where I’m standing it looks like he just accidentally exposed an image problem (i.e. nobody initially blinked at the GED reference in his blog post), and then went on a knee-jerk rush to finger somebody out of embarrassment. If he found the right guy then so be it, but I think the jury is still out at the moment.

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 5:25 am

I agree.

macho June 30, 2009 at 6:18 am

It’s a pretty big deal; remember all the attention that was given when the Cox campaign pulled this stunt. If it is Laurens, it wouldn’t be the first, or second, time he’s gotten himself into political trouble.

Jeff June 30, 2009 at 7:36 am

I agree. I’m still waiting for Erick to man up and admit he made a mistake.

We all do it, it isn’t THAT big of a deal (most of the time).

It is how you handle getting caught that makes all the difference.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 8:12 am

Steve,

I would also hope that he has some pretty good ip evidence. What he has stated so far does provide reasonable suspicion, but definitely does not rise to the level of overcoming reasonable doubt.

Sadly, the behavior of Laurens or some unknown Wikipedia bandit is indiciative of the true problem. There are way too many people capable of such actions working in politcal campaigns, who think they are justified in winning at all cost.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 8:25 am

Drama major, Doug?

“Winning at all cost” is a phrase more suitable to describe the extremes of what happened 3-5 years ago when one primary candidate shot another primary candidate dead in Tennessee.

To raise this event up to “Ooh! They’ll try to win at all costs!” is to truly dumb-down expectations.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 8:28 am

Bill, if you have no moral code, just say so, stop beating around the bush about it.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 8:42 am

The moral code I have is to try to not jump to conclusions and start spreading stories I have no basis in fact to do.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 9:09 am

Except when it comes to fantasies about hacking the database to change the title and path of an article on Peach Pundit. You are too self centered to see when you are being a hypocrite Bill.

As for spreading the story, the only one who has done that is Erick, unless you can point to any posts that I have authored. Personally, I would not have outed him, but would have likely brought the matter to the attention of the Ox and Handel campaigns, since what was done reflects on Ox’s campaign and affects the Handel campaign, and someone with such childish behavior has no place on any campaign staff.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 11:40 am

Doug,

I think you are on crack. As for spreading the story, the only one who has done that is Erick, unless you can point to any posts that I have authored

Oh, golly, just about every one in which you have said on the order of “yeah, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming…”

Regarding “hacking” WordPress, do you have a WordPress blog? I do. It ISN’T difficult at all to change the title AND change what is called the “Post Slug” of the thread.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 11:50 am

I am commenting on something that has already been posted on the place that it was posted.

Send me your address Bill, and I will send you something called a dictionary. If you don’t know what that is, you can look the word up when it arrives. “Spreading, why do you keep using that word? I do not think it means what you think it means”. (Apologies to Indigo Montoya).

Mark Rountree June 30, 2009 at 2:54 pm

It’s sometimes unfortunate to give Bill Simon something to be happy about, because then he might be actually unhappy about that… :)

But here it is:

I believe that the Senate candidate you referred to above actually went to the University of Georgia in the mid 1980s. He was a Young Democrat back then, but then changed is name to “Brian “low tax” Looper” and ran as a Republican against the incumbent.

Just an unfortunate UGA tidbit for you to toss at Erick later, Bill.

Georgia Judge June 30, 2009 at 6:15 am

This is the most ridiculous thing that I have read in a long time.

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 6:32 am

But is it entertaining? ;-) It’s almost as exciting as “Who shot J.R.” lol

GOPGeorgia June 30, 2009 at 7:14 am

Who smeared K.H?

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 7:25 am

That could be a new series.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 12:10 pm

I like the fact that every post Doug makes in rebuttal to mine has Georgia Judge’s post right below it declaring “This is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a long time.”

The Judge is right, Doug. You are posting the most ridiculous things anyone has likely read in a long time. :-)

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 4:27 pm

Mark Roundtree is now acting as a buffer BS.

YourFutureLeader June 30, 2009 at 7:32 am

As I said yesterday this went from something maybe a few 100 people see that never even filters down to the voters to an issue that has been blown way out of proportion. Then again its not like there are a ton of problems to fix in the state that the candidates and their groupies could be talking about…

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 8:22 am

John,

Dude…frankly, the relevance of whether my friend Karen Handel has a GED or a high school diploma is of such miniscule importance in the grand scheme of the 2010 campaign that I think it is quite unnecessary for me to throw myself in and “defend” her.

If, however, the Handel campaign is unable to deal with such a minor event (and, with Erick’s actions on 3 different threads, it is certainly pointing in that direction…tempest in a teapot much?), then I can predict a complete and total meltdown when something REALLY big and significant does get thrown-out about Karen.

Jane June 30, 2009 at 8:42 am

A recently demoted supporter trying to discredit the new campaign manager?

Technocrat June 30, 2009 at 8:53 am

Much of this intrigue is probably caused by a candidates vague published biography. Everyone has learned to be obtuse.
Loose lips sink ships, applied to more than wars.
Like a job resume which may not be factually checked to the nth degree Politicians hope they can gloss over teen and early adult actions.

I’m sure that the situation is important enough to send a private investigator to Maryland and Washington to get an EXACT TRUTH concerning the accusations.
After all public/government education has public records and lying on a application for Federal employment [wife of VP staff position ] is a Felony
As they always say the truth will set you free [or incarcerate you].

Goldwater Conservative June 30, 2009 at 8:54 am

Well…I have missed alot lately.

One word of advice to you young people out there…do not smoke cigarettes. I gave them up 18 years ago and still am suffering from it.

I do despise Karen Handel and would never think of voting for her. Oxendine lost my consideration when he put out that New Contract with America thing…then lost even more political credibility when he hired Tim Echols.

I do plan on voting for Nathan Deal. All that said, is it true that Handel only received a GED?

I disagree with Bill about how big of an issue this could be. It can be a big deal if Oxendine and Deal want it to be…especially in the Northern Arc of Metro Atlanta. It is this kind of thing that could make Handel lose North Fulton. It is a matter of relations. Would you feel comfortable, being a middle aged-middle to upper class resident of metro Atlanta (most likely being a transplant or transient resident of GA), voting for somebody with less of an education than your children?

Handel does have a good story, but it is not the kind of thing that will win her votes. I suppose this begs the question of whether or not a republican can win a primary nomination without carrying those counties. I do not think so. Gwinnett and Cobb both have nearly 1million residents…the northern arc contains what…1/3 to 1/2 of the state’s population and nearly all of its wealth.

I do encourage one thing from the GOP primary voters…keep the general election in consideration. This is a republican state and, in general, I do believe that the (R) next to your name ensures victory. If Handel is the nominee though, it will send a fairly poor message to the public and the nation about the values of GA. Not to mention she is going to get hammered by the press and in any debates.

Lets put it this way…all of the major candidates for governor, except Handel, have advanced degrees. They are all lawyers. On top of that, with the exception of Oxendine and Handel, every major candidate is highly skilled in debate and rhetoric. This election will not be won because the GOP nominee calls the Democrat a baby killer and the GOP nomination will not be sewn up with a pissing contest to see who is the most “conservative.” Given the state of affairs in GA, Roy Barnes or Baker or Porter will be hammering the question: “Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?” Then they will site education statistics, healthcare stats, economic stats, crime stats, conviction rates, etc. Everything has gone down hill. Handel does not have a leg to stand on and will not have an intelligible answer for any of this.

It will not be difficult to blame the GOP and have the people believe that. Just look to 2006 and 2008 nationally. 9/11 is a little too long ago for the GOP to use in 2010.

Deal is the only GOP candidate with a voting record on the issues. Albeit, it is not the best voting record…but it is far from the worst.

We’ll see. We still have 13 months and “god” knows what kinds of extramarital affairs and tax evasion charges will come up.

Pine Knot June 30, 2009 at 9:03 am

Well said.

Jason Shepherd June 30, 2009 at 12:11 pm

Deal is the only GOP candidate with a voting record on the issues?

I wonder what Eric Johnson and Austin Scott have been doing during their decade + tenure in the Georgia legislature.

South Fulton Guy June 30, 2009 at 7:17 pm

GC,

This is at least the second time I recall you saying you despise Karen Handel. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but could you share what you believe merits the contempt?

Bill Simon July 1, 2009 at 10:53 pm

GC is an old-timey male who just ain’t up for having danged wimmen (sic) in charge of anything.

Bill Greene July 3, 2009 at 4:36 pm

Hmmm. In trying to keep an open mind about the gubernatorial candidates, I have been considering Deal a a top candidate, right on many of the issues.

But now that GC says he’s voting for him, I find myself rethinking my position on Deal. There must be something wrong with him that I haven’t considered.

It’s like reading the NY Times to see who they endorse, so you know who to vote against.

drjay June 30, 2009 at 9:05 am

i’ve met the s.o.s on only a couple of occasions, and had some dealing / her office during my election in 07–she seemed pleasant and her staff seemed competent–i know no way to say this without sounding elitist or whatever and i don’t think i am–but the idea of our guv being educated w/ only a g.e.d is a little unsettling–all things being equal it might even effect who i would vote for–if she did actually graduate from high school–as silly as it may seem (much like obama birth certificate) she probably needs to just show everyone her diploma or pix from her graduation or ome such to make her part of the story go away –also how hard would it have been in the past 30 years to take correspondence courses from somewhere like st. leo or phoenix and get some sort of degree along and along–seems if nothing else it woul have been politically expedient for her to do so no?

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 9:30 am

Casey Cagle was leading before he dropped out of the race. He only has a high school education and no one had a problem with that; but they will with Karen? I don’t see how that can be.

Steve Perkins June 30, 2009 at 9:50 am

I’ve seen strong signs that some of the candidates are VERY SENSITIVE about lacking college degrees… but no strong sign that it matters one way or the other to the general public.

drjay June 30, 2009 at 9:55 am

it would make great fodder for the typical “whisper campaign” assuming those can still exist in this “new media age”

“psst, come here–you thinking of voting for so and so–yeah from what i understand she dropped out of high school and ended up w/ a ged from wherever it is she’s from–which is not ga by the way–just thought you should know…”

Joshua Morris June 30, 2009 at 10:04 am

drjay, I would imagine that she doesn’t want to focus on her educational credentials and that the Ox team does. Even if someone gets chopped over this and Ox gets some negative coverage, he may think he’s far enough ahead to endure it while hurting Handel in the process. The longer people talk about it, the worse it is for Handel.

drjay June 30, 2009 at 10:08 am

i can see where she would not want to talk much about it–but a simple statement of when she graduated from where–that specifically derides the pettiness of fiddling with someones wiki page and asks for focus on experience and vision might be nice…

drjay June 30, 2009 at 10:35 am

of course the ship has already sailed–but it really does seem like the politically expedient thing for her to have done would have been to get a degree along the way from somewhere like phoenix–which a simple perusal of their website leads me to believe she could have gotten a bachelors in something like public admin or marketing from them in a year or so by combining her life experience with the online course work—just saying

drjay June 30, 2009 at 9:52 am

i would not say “noone” had a problem with that–it was posted both here and i believe in the ajc’s political insider column as an open question as to whether it would matter–the polls right now are really just name recognition–and again maybe i’m a being too snooby but even “graduated from xyz high school” has a better ring to it than “got a ged ” in most circumstances

anewday June 30, 2009 at 10:33 am

You would think by this stage there would be some hard evidence as to who was the one who posted all this stuff. If I was Brian Laurens, and if this was not true I would have already been talking to a lawyer about my legal options. Slander of this degree should not be taking lightly, if of course this slander.

heroV June 30, 2009 at 11:21 am

So, basically someone said she has a GED, but then Handel says “no, I have a diploma! a real one!” How precious. This is like when my kid hears me tell someone he’s 3 and he screams “no I’m not! I’m 3 and a HALF!!” Just precious.

Dash Riptide June 30, 2009 at 11:28 am

Link, please.

heroV June 30, 2009 at 12:00 pm

to my kid? what?

Dash Riptide June 30, 2009 at 1:35 pm

To the words you’re putting in Handel’s mouth. Not that you didn’t already know that.

heroV June 30, 2009 at 1:45 pm

you’re quite a moron

heroV June 30, 2009 at 1:46 pm

sense of humor much?

Dash Riptide June 30, 2009 at 1:50 pm

I stand corrected.

Little Elephant June 30, 2009 at 11:25 am

Why is this about Karen’s education? Where do a bunch of retread Democrats like Nathan Deal and John Oxendine get off attacking Karen Handel in such an underhanded way? Does anyone think it’s just a coincidence that a bunch of old white men that are both attorneys and career politicians are sitting there attacking the lone woman in this race?

What the heck does Karen Handel have anything to prove to those of you that are jabbing at her background? She was a County Commission Chairman, our Secretary of State and has some pretty hefty corporate experience too.

GOPGeorgia June 30, 2009 at 2:38 pm

Little E,

A member of OX’s campaign is suspected of attacking Handel. Suspected doesn’t not mean has. I suspect that you can reason, but there’s no proof of that. Please show us any proof that Deal’s or Ox’s campaigns have attacked Handel.

GOPGeorgia June 30, 2009 at 2:39 pm

double negative posted. please remove the “not.” dad gum typo monkey!

Jeff June 30, 2009 at 6:26 pm

GOPGeorgia,

Are you talking about in this instance, or attacks from Deal/Ox on Handel in general? I can’t point to any from Deal, but I can show you at LEAST two or three from Ox – including in the very email where he claimed he would run a ‘positive’ campaign ‘on the issues’.

GOPGeorgia July 1, 2009 at 10:57 am

I was refering to this instance, but I don’t recall seeing any attacks on Handel from the OX team. I have seen them say that he is conservative and others are moderate, but I’m not sure how much that qualifies as an attack.

GeorgePBurdell June 30, 2009 at 5:43 pm

Not saying it is a good or bad thing, but you do know Karen used to be a Democrat also right?

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 5:45 pm

Being an ex-dem seems to be a theme among GA Republicans.

mondaymorningqb June 30, 2009 at 9:31 pm

I have never heard this before, GPB. Where did you get your information?

Bill Greene July 3, 2009 at 4:47 pm

Karen Handel’s a girl?

YourFutureLeader June 30, 2009 at 11:30 am

“It is a matter of relations. Would you feel comfortable, being a middle aged-middle to upper class resident of metro Atlanta (most likely being a transplant or transient resident of GA), voting for somebody with less of an education than your children?”

Do people really feel this way? The GED is not a lesser amount of education than a HS diploma it is the equivalent, and even then. Getting a degree from college or a certificate is not a sign of ones intelligence either. It simply means you had the means by which to attend schooling further. And even then its not even that hard to get a bachelors, or an advanced degree. This whole stupid thing is much ado about nothing. We are wasting time and energy arguing about something that matters about .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% in the grand scheme of things. And yes all those zeroes were necessary.

Joshua Morris June 30, 2009 at 11:58 am

College isn’t just about “hav[ing] the means by which to attend schooling further.” It’s about doing what it takes to learn course material and complete projects to earn a degree. It demonstrates a person’s will to improve himself/herself and achieve something. If it were “not even that hard”, a lot more people would have degrees. Many local colleges aren’t all that expensive, as well as many online universities.

This is not to say that those without degrees are the opposite of what I mentioned above. Many people demonstrate their will to achieve in other ways, like Handel has. Public perception is the battle that will rage over her education and experience.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 1:24 pm

JSM,

The recent economic studies of the differences between a college degree and not have begun to start trending in favor of never getting one. If you take the assumption that someone without a degree will have 4 more years of full time work and then factor in the cost of a degree (in many formerly affordable places tutiton is 20k plus a year plus books), it is questionable as to whether or not it make sense, when starting salaries of most programs are not much better than that of a person with 4 years of work experience.

Of course this is from a purely statistical point of view and discounts other potential benefits of college as well as elite courses of study like engineerin’, doctrin’ and lawyerin’ , which can greatly increase income.

Steve Perkins June 30, 2009 at 12:43 pm

I agree that lacking a college degree shouldn’t disqualify one for public office… but the idea that higher education is nothing more than “having money” and “showing up” is nonsensical sour grapes.

For one thing, you don’t have to “have means” to go to college. Georgia gives you more or less a free ride if you maintain a B average (which you’ve just described as “not even that hard”). Our state also has no shortage of smaller 4-year schools in rural areas that cost a fraction of the national average. I was a first-generation college grad who put myself through school working a job on the side, and I was hardly alone.

Secondly, if it’s “not even that hard”… then why did about one-third of my college friends never complete their degrees? Why do only a portion of students who qualify for HOPE free-rides use them? Why are people without degrees so sensitive about it?

Yeah, yeah… “knowledge” and “intelligence” aren’t the same thing, and you CAN accomplish things in your life with a college degree, etc. However, earning a college degree is an achievement to be respected… and in the modern economy it’s more or less a degree to be expected. If you don’t finish college, you can always “prove yourself” as being equally capable… but if you just push through and achieve the accomplishment, then it’s one less thing to prove.

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 2:29 pm

I know this will come as a shock to most of you,(lol) but I don’t have a degree and neither does my husband; yet, we have made a great life for ourselves. Not everyone has the opportunity to go to college and not everyone needs to. I had a talent and I made a very good living as a hairdresser. My husband joined the Army at 17 and became a Ranger. After he served 6 years we went into business for ourselves. The business grew and we started another business which has done very well.
There are times that both of us wish we had gone to college because some, not all college grads have an elitist view over people who did not go, even if we are doing far better financially. But, on the flip side we can’t and wouldn’t change the past. It made us who we are, which is two productive people who are great parents to some special kids.

Steve Perkins June 30, 2009 at 3:22 pm

There’s a flip-side to elitists… and that’s people saying that all the hard work and sacrifice of a degree is just a matter of having money and showing up. Both sides of that coin are incredibly ignorant.

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm

I sure don’t think anyone can buy a degree. I believe that nowadays it’s even more important to have one which is what I tell my kids everyday. They will go to college.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 3:56 pm

Helter Kellster,

For most degrees, I think going into the military or going to a technical school will serve one much better. Sitting unemployed with a degree in English or “Communications” while being 50-100k in debt is a whole lot worse than not having a degree and being employed.

When it comes to education, people all too often take leave from their senses and end up in horrible financial shape. I nearly went to M.I.T, when the tuition was $22,000 a year (not including room, board and book), and if I spent 5 full years there, like I did at Georgia Tech, I would have spent about $50,000 more on tuition. Today, tuition at MIT is $36,000 a year and 5 years cost $180,000.

The interest alone (at 5%) on $180,000 is $750 a month.

If someone goes solely for the status of having gone to college, I think it is a mistake.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 4:35 pm

I sure don’t think anyone can buy a degree.

Well…you can, actually. Add in all the beer and liquor consumed by the average UGA student, on top of the tuition they pay, and they’ve pretty much bought their degree at UGA. :-)

(Offended UGA alum response in 5…4…3….)

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 4:44 pm

Bill,

That is not so much as buying a degree as it is winning it in a scratch off.

Jeff June 30, 2009 at 6:41 pm

Steve,

I’ll readily cop to being a natural academic (rather than say a natural athlete or entreprenuer), but seriously, the claims of ‘showing up’ were decently accurate in my own experience.

Honestly, I’ve said it even before I had the degree in my hand: It is a piece of paper, and not much more. It is nice to have, as I was the first in my family to get it as well, and I had a great time there and got valuable experience outside the classroom – but it doesn’t make me any better than anyone else, nor does it necessarily mean I am better qualified for any particular office than someone else.

The one thing I WILL cop to in my own collegiate experience that has helped with my political activities is that my involvement in a student group back then, and particularly the levels I rose to (Chapter President and Regional Representative on the National body that was essentially that organization’s Student Governing Body), it has played directly in to some of what I do now (eerily similar titles within the LP, though State, not National).

Steve Perkins June 30, 2009 at 7:26 pm

Jeff, I agree that I didn’t exactly break a sweat intellectually back in college. However, I’m also a genius (just being humbly honest!). About a third of my classmates couldn’t handle it and failed to finish, though… so just because a bar seems low doesn’t mean that tons of people still come under it.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 7:55 pm

Jeff, I agree that I didn’t exactly break a sweat intellectually back in college.

Duh, Didn’t you major in Poli-sci?
;-)

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 8:17 pm

I am sure My husband would have breezed through it as he did high school (he had the credits to graduate at 14 but the military school would not let him until he was 16) but he didn’t go b/c it bored him. Both his brother and sister are GA Tech grads like you, Doug.
I, on the other hand, had a hard time in school but now I know it was due to Tourette’s. My younger brother, on the other hand didn’t hardly study and he stayed on the dean’s list through his undergrad and 2 master’s programs.

Point is, some people are just made to go to school and then there is me. ;-)

YourFutureLeader June 30, 2009 at 8:31 pm

Its not an elitisit point of view to think gaining a college degree is not intelligently challenging. And your point that a 1/3 of your class failed to finish doesnt really do anything to prove a counter point considering there are 1000 of factors other than they weren’t smart enough to hack it.

The state of US education in general is kind of a joke when looked at from an international point of view. I think most of today’s college students would be better served going to a trade school, or joining the military to be perfectly honest.

Full Disclosure: I graduated with a B.S. from a rural Georgia public university.

I faced the same challenges others did in college and the biggest challenge was not academic but rather self-motivation, and time management. Some degrees are harder, some schools are harder, and I dont think anybody is attempting to marginalize the accomplishment getting a college degree is. My point was simply that getting a degree isnt all its cracked up to be, and we see them in today’s job market where simply having a BS or BA just isnt good enough anymore.

I think its beyond ridiculous to choose to judge a candidate intelligence, or ability to do a job based on a certificate that is printed on paper. Which is why the entire HS Diploma/GED point is a dumb one.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 8:47 pm

Good points UFL.

Personally I care more about a person’s character, judgement and resume than their education.

Almost anyone can get A’s with enough hard work. It takes real life to prove you learned anything from that education, and that your character was properly shaped by experience.

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 8:51 pm

I agree DD.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 11:44 am

Getting a degree from college or a certificate is not a sign of ones intelligence either.

Thus the overwhelming numbers of lawyers involved in politics who demonstrate less than average intelligence (See Erickson, Erick)

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 11:53 am

With this Bill (the only exception being that I would not personalize it with the inclusion of Erick, who I think is definitely above average intelligence) we can agree.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 12:14 pm

I used the word “demonstrate,” Doug. Every time he spouts out crap like he’s been spouting off for the last 24 hours regarding the Rothenberg article and the Wikipedia entry, Erick demonstrates less than average intelligence.

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 1:27 pm

The fact that his spelling is mostly correct and he doesn’t use number in place of real words, (e.g. 4 good, 2 be, I 1, I 8, etc) gives him a leg up on the average joe.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 2:45 pm

Soooo…good grammar students are something you cherish?

I heard about this guy Barack Obama who might be able to turn you onto some really good crack, and he is well-educated in liberal arts like English and History.

rugby June 30, 2009 at 2:53 pm

WTF?

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 3:57 pm

Indeed.

Jason Shepherd June 30, 2009 at 12:21 pm

John K.,

I would say I have a relatively close ear to the Oxendine message machine (and have criticized their message in the past). I have never heard Oxendine or his campaign make any mention on Karen and Steve concerning their family. Please post some evidence.

saltynuts June 30, 2009 at 12:45 pm

Call me an elitist if you will, but I will have trouble voting for someone who doesn’t have a college degree for Governor. Whether we’re talking about Casey or Karen, doesn’t matter.

I recognize that both of those individuals have more than distinguished themselves, but the fact of the matter is that most of the jobs that report to the LG, SOS or GOV require a college degree.

Why should we lower our standards for an elected official?

Saying that a college degree is only a test of whether you had the means to attend cheapens the achievement of those who worked, took out loans or enlisted in order to get their degrees.

I don’t require that the applicant for the job of Governor possess an Ivy League degree. But sometime over the last 20-30 years of professional life, a degree from Ga. Perimeter College, GSU, Kennesaw State or any of the myriad of fine institutions that offer evening and flex-schedule courses would be perfectly fine.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 1:00 pm

Why should we lower our standards for an elected official?

Are you of the opinion that “elected officials” are always qualified to represent anyone even if they do have a college degree?

Your opinion demonstrates more of a HUA mentality (head up a@@) than an elitist one.

yellowb June 30, 2009 at 1:38 pm

What is tomorrow’s episode?

Buzzfan June 30, 2009 at 2:02 pm

I always found it somewhat disconcerting (and a bit ironic) that the body that oversees the 35 colleges and universities in the State of Georgia has had….for the last 18 years…. a member (and one-time chairman) who not only has no college degree but who sells booze for a living.

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 2:07 pm

well, selling booze is very much “college”, don’t ya think?

Romegaguy June 30, 2009 at 3:14 pm

I heard he is very supportive of gymnastics though

Doug Deal June 30, 2009 at 3:25 pm

I think that is consuming booze.

LoyaltyIsMyHonor June 30, 2009 at 2:06 pm

A bit off topic, but can someone bring me up to speed on the Frigtard/Wiki connection? Icarus called me out on my ignorance of it a couple of weeks ago :(

Dash Riptide June 30, 2009 at 2:13 pm
LoyaltyIsMyHonor June 30, 2009 at 2:37 pm

Thanks Dash for the timely reply.

I really don’t know where I was for that one.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 2:13 pm

Bat Channel Update!

To bring you up to speed, we will revisit the pertinent comments made yesterday at the top of this thread:

“PeachPundit operator Erick Erickson says he’s tracked down the author of the Handel/GED line, and he has fingered a member of the John Oxendine campaign.”

As of Bat Time today (6/30/2009) at 3:10 PM EST, there has been NO new news from Ace Blogger Erick Erickson on the identity of the person he supposedly “fingered.”

Rumors are beginning to circulate, though, that Erick may be eating a big plate of crow right now. That, or, perhaps talking to the lawyer for Red State. One or the other is entirely possible in this situation.

That’s the Bat Update as of now. Stay tuned for more non-news as it develops…

GOPGeorgia June 30, 2009 at 2:47 pm

SpaceyG is a bat?

Bill Greene July 3, 2009 at 4:59 pm

Seriously, am I the only one brave enough to point out the potential scandal from the fact that Erick Erickson “has fingered a member of the John Oxendine campaign”?

Is that even legal in Georgia?

Technocrat June 30, 2009 at 2:45 pm

It just dawned on me that if Karen had a B average in her Maryland HS and did graduate she would probably be eligible for under the rules for those prior to 1993.

“If you graduated from high school before the HOPE program began, or if you were not academically eligible immediately after high school graduation, you may be eligible for a HOPE Scholarship after attempting 30, 60, or 90 semester hours or 45, 90, or 135 quarter hours of study if you have a 3.0 cumulative grade point average.”

If she has a Maryland GED, she could take the GED in Georgia and get $500.
If she passes she would be eligible for HOPE.”

Even a lesser excuse for not having a degree.

Heck back in 1973-77, I held down 1.5 jobs was married with a child and went to night and weekend college for my first BS degree in NJ. No company reimbursement for education back then.

Somehow not enough time doesn’t compute!

Tommy_a2b June 30, 2009 at 3:38 pm

Wow this sure is a lot of discussion over something that seems to be very small.

Dash Riptide June 30, 2009 at 4:06 pm

The front pagers haven’t offered any fresh meat today.

Bill Simon June 30, 2009 at 4:30 pm

Tommy,

It appears to be SO small that with all the hoopla demonstrated by Ace Blogger/Detective Erick Erickson, there MUST be something actually there that mere mortals like I are unable to see.

Or, this is one of those instances in which the crime is miniscule, but the coverup is much worse.

Tommy_a2b June 30, 2009 at 4:43 pm

Everyone knows that Erick is a huge Karen supporter. Nothing wrong with that but no reason to beat on someone with no evidence. Now on the other hand if he has proof I am interested in knowing. But only so I can laugh at the situation (similar laughing to the Drunk Nekkid Mayor thingy.) But even if it is true what is the difference in the real world between a GED and a High School diploma? Not like a High School Diploma around these parts means anything, this is Georgia after all.

Kellie June 30, 2009 at 4:52 pm

About the Nekkid Mayor, I heard it was on the news in Japan. WOW. Stupid politician news travels fast and far.

Little Elephant June 30, 2009 at 8:21 pm

Interesting that you are all still repeating the lie begun by an obvious Oxendine supporter. The Karen Handel campaign told the media that she graduated high school and went to college. I believe it.

After reading these posts I’m finally starting to get it… we have a couple of old, white, former Democrat, lawyer-career politicians, they are Oxendine and Deal… and it’s clear that there are a bunch of people on this blog that want to try to destroy Handel by calling her intelligence and education into question. To attack Sec. Handel in this way is reprehensible and I suspect most of it is because she’s a woman.

Dash Riptide June 30, 2009 at 8:23 pm

Or is she?

Little Elephant June 30, 2009 at 8:27 pm

By the way, I wasn’t wired for sound when I talked with Brian Laurens at the convention so I can’t present the full transcript but he trashed Austin Scott and he also insisted that Oxendine was the only conservative in the race. Laurens essentially said that you aren’t a conservative if you support Austin Scott. I would classify that as negative campaigning.

ready2rumble July 1, 2009 at 6:49 am

A few thoughts. Can anyone prove or does any one have any documentation the Handel has a GED. Have any of the other candidates been asked to prove that they have the degrees that they claim to have?

Someone claimed that Handel was a former Dem. Do you have proof? Don’t bother looking, because it’s 100% false.

Holly July 1, 2009 at 9:56 am

I’m still on the fence when it comes to who to vote for governor. Whether a candidate has a GED, a doctorate, or a juris doctor really doesn’t matter a whole hill of beans. There are plenty of people out there with advanced degrees that I would never want running this state, and some of the most capable people I know never stepped foot in a college.

If it is the case that someone out there is really trying to make Karen Handel look bad by editing her Facebook page, shame on them. But, in reality, probably only the people on this blog noticed. The general public won’t pay attention to the race for at least another six months, perhaps more.

That said, I don’t like this jumping to conclusions bit. Unless you are 100% sure that you have the correct person fingered, a name should have never been posted. Innocent until proven guilty, right?

Tommy_a2b July 1, 2009 at 9:58 am

Again all I can say is wow. Is there anyone else out there that thinks all the Candidates are good people? I care less about their education and more about what they have done and want to do. Karen is a great lady. John Ox is a great guy. Austin Scott is a great guy. All the candidates are good people trying to do good things. Why all the hate? Why do we in the Republican Party seem to enjoy eating our own? Just my random thoughts for today.

Holly July 1, 2009 at 10:08 am

My thoughts exactly, Tommy.

Kellie July 1, 2009 at 10:14 am

I care more about their character than their education. One thing that shows a lot about a person’s character is the people they surround themselves with. If they choose to have people on their campaign that play sleazy games then I won’t support them. This goes for every campaign out there, it is not about Ox or this thread. I ruled him out already for other reasons. I am still up in the air on the rest; although I would love to see a woman in office.

Jason Shepherd July 1, 2009 at 12:52 pm

“Our own,” the other white meat!

Doug Deal July 1, 2009 at 8:30 pm

I care more about their character than their education. One thing that shows a lot about a person’s character is the people they surround themselves with. If they choose to have people on their campaign that play sleazy games then I won’t support them.

So tell us what you really think about Jason.

Bill Greene July 3, 2009 at 5:04 pm

Kellie, this is actually one reason I haven’t discounted Oxendine. The fact that Tim Echols is now his campaign manager shot him way up in my book. Just sayin’.

Now if he would just start wearing socks.

Icarus July 1, 2009 at 10:22 am

“There are plenty of people out there with advanced degrees that I would never want running this state, ”

First you stand me up again in Savannah, and now you’re just being mean to me.

Holly July 1, 2009 at 3:18 pm

I had to drive from DC, and I had to make a choice between seeing the PeachPundit folks OR celebrating my brother’s birthday early. I chose the latter. . .

Icarus July 1, 2009 at 7:16 pm

Well, I was in D.C. yesterday, and did you call? No.

Dash Riptide July 1, 2009 at 7:24 pm

Why does Holly hate Icarus? I mean, I know why the rest of us hate Icarus, but still…

Icarus July 1, 2009 at 7:53 pm

EXACTLY!

Jason Shepherd July 1, 2009 at 8:22 pm

I think most women hate Icarus. I’ve been trying to set Icarus up with Bonnie and we all saw how that ended up.

Holly July 2, 2009 at 9:20 am

Well, now I’m heartbroken.

Technocrat July 1, 2009 at 10:58 am

I’m POSITIVE that all the leading Republican candidates will be under 24 hour observation and detectives will be examining their history since puberty. How else can the negative ads be written.
The democrats will stop at nothing to swing Georgia, now that they have the Federal government under their thumb.

Heck back in the 70′s and 80′s agencies were Allegedly getting court orders and exerting pressure to Allegedly place bugs inside Cable convertors [set top boxes] in NJ……..lots of empty space and it plugs in for power.
Allegedly Didn’t work too well until the method of phase cancelling the sound from TV or radio was used on tapes, later.
If you use a frequency close to upstream data [36.4 MHz and others*] from convertor and modem it is hidden unless you are smart enough to unplug all the Cable devices [from power] and the signal is still there………..some devices can detect this cut in power/signal and shut down to avoid exposure.
Cable is great since you can put a signal on the coax in one home and pick it off in another home a 1,000 feet away without ever radiating it in the air.

Hope Roy swept his brand new house well, but that doesn’t help since you can bounce an invisible laser beam off the glass windows and walls, a pool umbrella works well too, same with window offices in Capital……..draw the draps and use windowless rooms. A white noise device can be attached to windows to make it tough except for Fed equipment where money is no object.

“April 26th, 1880 – Alexander Graham Bell & Sumner Tainter announce their invention – the Photophone. Sound is transmitted on reflected light-rays a distance of 213 meters. They also claim, “it can transmit songs with great purity of tone.” ………………as you can see not new technology.

http://spybusters.blogspot.com/
http://www.spybusters.com/Laser_Beam_Eavesdropping.html
http://www.spybusters.com/pdf/SecurityWorld%20Article%20090501.pdf

I met Murray [chief spybuster] when I was Allegedly Chief engineer of NJ largest cable system.
“By the way, there has never been a time in history when spying has been easier or cheaper for the average person.”

How much is being elected Govenor or Senator worth?

My memory is very fizzy due to advanced age and pre-Alzhiemers and I don’t want to end up in court or have to take the 5th, so everything here might be just smoke, not a single fact who knows I like to write fiction.

Bill Greene July 3, 2009 at 5:06 pm

Golly.

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