I think Nancy Pelosi has joined us.

So, an increase in mass should certainly be expected as one moves from the parking lot to the train.

Thankfully, the government “planners” are going to save the day now.

Hey, wait a minute…

Metroplitan transit by and large serves commuters. An isolated Norcross-Gwinett Arena rail transit corridor lacks the commuters required to support such a system even if 100% of commuters used it.

As for a MARTA referendum – MARTA could build either HRT, the LRT line proposed, or even the part of the commuter rail line (at least in Gwinnett and into Atlanta) – all it takes is the Gwinnett officials having the confidence from their constituents to call a MARTA referendum and signing the contract with MARTA. Only Gwinnett, Clayton, and Cobb have that option.

Finally, I’m of the understanding that physical construction times wouldn’t be that different between HRT and LRT, it is the funding behind the cash flow that makes the difference and accounts for much of the difference in construction.

We don’t do this because the investment would be huge, and there are retarded fears that it would bring “undesirable elements” (i.e. non-whites) to the suburbs. So instead, we endlessly fart around with half-measures that make no practical sense and whose costs are only “less huge”.

Conservatives need to get over the racial nonsense, and the denial that any infrastructure can be self-sustaining (roads aren’t). Liberals need to stop jumping all over any half-baked nonsense without question just because it has the word “rail” in it and they think they can sneak it in. At some point, metro area leadership is going to have to show actual leadership, rather than death by compromise. Just break ground on MARTA expansion and quit playing around.

Also, you’re saying that the Gwinnett trolley track and the MARTA track would be incompatible… and the article states that this “intermodal transfer” hub would be located in north DeKalb. So how does this jive with possible MARTA expansion one way or the other?

I like the crash helmet visual. Could almost make a good TV ad with that.

CCT 10 (Cobb Parkway – Arts Center/Marietta) runs has over 4,000 passenger /day – GCT 10 has about 2,000. However, my general point that 98 bus trips a day (http://www.gwinnettcounty.com/departments/transportation/routes/10.pdf) represent less than 1% of vehicle traffic along Buford Highway by carry multiple times that in terms of people (even if it is between 6 – 8% roughly) is that there is a proven transit demand along the corridor for some type of transit service.

Numbers come from the Gwinnett County Transit and have to be audited as part of inclusion in the National Transit Database as reported to the Federal Transit Administration. Still, this works about to about 20 passengers / trip and is inclusive of the entire distance from Doraville Station to Gwinnett Place Mall. Gwinnett uses either 40′ New Flyer or Orion CNG buses for local service on the 10. These are 39-40 seat buses. Highest load point is at Doraville and then decreases as the buses move towards Gwinnett Place Mall. If you want to go see a Gwinnett Bus with passengers more than 5 passengers on it, go to Doraville between 6 AM and 8 AM and between 4 PM and 6 PM and just watch the number of people getting on and off the GCT 10.

I do apologize for getting my 10′s mixed up.

Also, consider that those 4,000 people are carried on about 100 bus trips a day

I’m not calling you a liar personally, but that comes out to 40 passengers per trip. I have NEVER seen a GCT bus with more than 4 or 5 passengers, and I’m not sure that there are even 40 seats on a bus.

Also, consider that those 4,000 people are carried on about 100 bus trips a day and Buford Highway carries between 20,000-30,000 vehicles per day. So 0.5% or of vehicles are carrying between 12-16% of all people traveling along the Buford (a rough estimate thinkign about 1.2 avg vehicle occupancy).

BTW – by your definition then of a multi-modal center, than all MARTA stations are multi-modal centers (bikes, buses, taxis, rail, and – usually, parking) as would any LRT station.

“Intermodal” means “more than one mode (of transportation)”. So maybe it’s buses, or vans, or helicopters, or placing passengers in a catapult and launching them into DeKalb with crash helmets on. But one way or the other, you’re going to need a non-rail transfer means for getting from one rail to the other. That would duplicate the existing near-empty buses which connect Gwinnett to Doraville. This is what I mean by asking questions.

I seem to recall back in the day that Dekalb Commissioners had a hissy fit about “light rail” being used for part of the routes through the county, because it wasn’t “heavy rail” and they were having a whole inferiority complex over it. Not sure they’ve gotten smarter since that episode.

Heavy rail is what is described as a metro or subway. Current standard practice is completely grade separate ROW with a third rail propulsion system, automatic train signaling, high capacity services in 6-8 cars in length. This is what we have with MARTA in Atlanta. Other examples of modern HRT are Washington Metro, LA Subway, Miami Metro. Top revenue speeds are 90 MPH in BART out in the Bay Area and 70 MPH here in Atlanta. Station spacings are usually 1/2 mile in major destinations to 1-3 miles outside of destinations.

Light Rail is usually powered by overhead catenary (wires), can have grade crossings and operate in a variety of environments – exclusive ROW like Heavy Rail, shared corridor with roads (i.e. in its own lane along an arterial), and occasionally in-street. Streetcars and LRT can share tracks, maintenance facilities, etc usually quite easily and the main difference is in performance of the vehicle and services provided (they’re close cousins in other words). Current Modern US examples are DART in Dallas, MTA in Baltimore (the one that runs next to symphony, not the one that goes to DC), Houston, and LYNX Charlotte. Signaling systems can range from either full Automatic train control to complete driver operated like a bus. Top revenue service speeds on available models in service is generally 65 MPH (I think this is CHarlottes). Station spacings are usually closer together in activity centers, but then they can approach HRT distances. The main difference is that LRT does not require complete grade separation meaning it can run above ground next to traffic and doesn’t require aerial or tunnels in built up areas unless really required.

Remember, these are general definitions. There are exceptions and examples of different types of services and mixing of these technologies around the world and historic examples in the US (for example, Cleveland runs HRT and LRT vehicles on the same track and their HRT system is powered with overhead catenary – but this is a unique operation in the U.S. Similarly Amsterdam has LRT and Streetcars that use its HRT subway, but they have special vehicles for that purpose that can run on both Catenary and third rail).

If anyone wants some pictures or a discussion of some of the unique examples, let me know and I’ll post some links.