Poythress: Secession rhetoric “a slap in the face” to soldiers

by Jason Pye on May 20, 2009

David Poythress is slamming Republicans secession rhetoric in a video sent out to his mailing list this afternoon:

{ 2 trackbacks }

Poythress on ’secession’ fever…and Austin Scott makes sense | Fresh Loaf: May 21, 2009 at 3:51 pm
So, General Poythress, what are your “common sense solutions to protect American values,” again? I never caught that part from you. — Peach Pundit: June 11, 2009 at 5:40 pm

{ 76 comments }

Icarus May 20, 2009 at 3:49 pm: That is an amazingly powerful video.

Republicans, candidates and voters alike, need to remember this:

While you’re out there chasing after the noisy yet small fringe, you have to be careful not to lose the much larger part of the party that proudly held signs that said “Country First” during the last campaign and meant it.
John Konop May 20, 2009 at 3:53 pm: I agree!!!!
Just_A_Grunt May 20, 2009 at 4:00 pm: Uh Sir, standing up for states rights is a far different issue then secession. He is really distorting the issue here, and having worn the uniform is not a requirement for political office.
I have to remember who his target audience is, but I dislike veterans who wrap themselves in their service and pretend that it gives them any sort of high moral ground on a particular issue. Maybe he is overlooking the citizen part of citizen/soldier. Citizens are allowed to have differing opinions, but by distorting what the real issue is, the assertion of states sovereignty, he only diminishes his stature and any sort of claim he may have been trying to make in regards to his honesty.
Mr. Poythress relies on AJC liberal columnist Jay Bookman, who is so concerned about this issue that he wrote about it twice,
for his talking points. The Georgia House Resolution he cites is HR 632.
Legislation very similar to this resolution has been proposed in about 15 other states with OK approving their version and MT passing legislation using a slightly different tact, namely that of gun rights and interstate commerce.
So Mr Bookman, Mr Poythress, maybe you ought to look around and rather then Georgia being the leader on this issue we are but one of a growing band of states who are tired of taking marching from Washington and tired of being blackmailed into falling into compliance with those in DC by the threat of having funds withheld or other punitive actions simply for telling the federal government that they need to butt out of issues best decided on at the state level.
One thing the former general seems skilled at is the tactic we call Battlefield Deception, whereby you try to convince the enemy of one thing while doing another.
Oh and before all the liberals chime in to call me a chicken hawk, like Mr Poythress implied in his video, which is disgraceful in itself, I did my 20+ and am currently retired, but it doesn’t give me any sort special privilege and wouldn’t mention it but I know how the other side fights.
John Konop May 20, 2009 at 4:16 pm: Just_A_Grunt

You can put your head in the sand but this is real issue.
joe May 20, 2009 at 4:21 pm: This is a very powerful video, but it is just flat wrong. I also served for 20+ years. In thse years, I raised my right hand twelve times and swore to support and defend the Constitution. The same Constitution that the Federal government neither supports nor defends. I have my doubts as to whether any of them have even read it. I am not in favor of secession, but I am willing to listen to anybody who has ideas on how to change what the government has become. Secession might be the only way to support the ideas that became our Constitution.

I haven’t read of any GA GOP politician calling for secession. I have read of them supporting attempts to rein in an out of control government.
Icarus May 20, 2009 at 4:24 pm: Joe,

I very much understand your point, and Grunt’s as well.

But “right” or “wrong”, it is powerful.

And when a general election rolls around, the average voter isn’t going to spend a few hours reading blogs, and certainly not journal articles about the Constitution to get the difference.

It’s easy to try to reach out to establish your creditials. It’s much harder to pull that back in if you aren’t careful and over reach.

These guys all have to fight for a primary, but they better keep in mind that there’s a general election in November, too.
John Konop May 20, 2009 at 4:32 pm: Joe

The problem is perception is reality and some of he groups behind the secession movement are very radical! I do not think any of the front runners really want Georgia to leave the country but if you attack the radicals that becomes the message. The problem with the GOP is they are being marginalized by having right wing Al Sharpton type spokesperson being perceived as the party.
Jason Pye May 20, 2009 at 4:35 pm: Just_A_Grunt,

I fixed your html. Hope you don’t mind.
John Konop May 20, 2009 at 4:36 pm: .

sorry

…but if you attack like this the radicals become the messenger …
Progressive Dem May 20, 2009 at 4:45 pm: Things are looking up for the governor’s race.

Great message and excellent delivery.
DonnaC May 20, 2009 at 5:05 pm: Like Joe, I haven’t heard of a single GOP candidate calling for succession. This is just one of those things the left is going to spin, spin, spin without providing one shred of documentation. I love that Poythress uses Bill Shipp, and his “nit wits” comment as his source. That’s pretty non-partisan–not!

As the wife of someone who served 22 1/2 years wearing the uniform of this country, it makes me sick to my stomach when I see someone wrap themselves in the flag while sanctimoniously beating on their chests! If Poythress is such a great patriot, he should know a long line of patriots have gone before, spilling their blood to insure we would never live under the tyranny of a centralized government. Instead of addressing the issues, he, instead, is just blowing smoke!

Today we can almost be assured citizens of Georgia will now be called upon to pay for the gross mismanagement and wild spending of the state of California, along with auto manufacturers, banks, Wall Street and a multitude of others that we’re probably unaware of…let’s talk about that, Mr. Poythress and how willing you would be to continue to support DC and its neverending need for more, more, more from the states who have tried to be judicious in their taxing and spending. Is it no wonder people are sick and tired of sending their taxpayer money into the Black Hole of Washington while you prance around in your uniform telling us all how “outrageous” and “disgraceful” we are.
Red Phillips May 20, 2009 at 5:10 pm: This puts our cosmotarian friend Jason in a very awkward position does it not? Every on guard to avoid the taint of “radicals” (like those crazy Founding Fathers) he must distance himself from the secessionist, but as an astute libertarian he understands that secession is a very libertarian, anti-big government concept. Whatever will he do? Denounce the secessionist and chase after the approval of the “reasonable” PC crowd but risk alienating his (L)libertarian philosophical soul mates or vice versa. Poor Jason. It’s not easy being an oh so reasonable and taint free cosmo when the people whose approval you seek think you are fringe by the very nature of your philosophy.

I guess posting a drive by video without commentary is walking that line. Come on Jason. Do you or do you not support secession as a concept? Your fellow Libertarian Party members are anxious to know.
Jason Pye May 20, 2009 at 5:17 pm: Secession is an act of revolution. It is a not a right.
Icarus May 20, 2009 at 5:24 pm: Red,

Jason regularly posts things that are “newsworthy” from a campaign without regard as to whether he supports it or agrees with it. You’re setting the bar a bit high here.

Donna,

We can’t always blame the other side for their spin when we know they’re going to do it and play into their hands. Astute campaigns understand planning their message in such a way that they control it, as well as look at how the other side will manipulate it.
Red Phillips May 20, 2009 at 5:32 pm: Oh no. That is where you are very wrong. Secession is a political right for American States because they reserved it, and it was understood at the time of the ratification of the Constitution. (As a paleocon and not a libertarian I try to avoid invoking natural rights.) It flows from the very nature of the American federated union. Secession is withdrawing from the larger political entity and going your own way. It is not an attempt to overthrow and remake that entity. (Revolution.) To equate secession and revolution is a category error. The Lincoln loving Jaffaites make the same error.

Please Google “Secession and the Modern State” and “Dr. Donald Livingston” and have a read. (He is a Philosophy Professor at Emory.)
Red Phillips May 20, 2009 at 5:39 pm: Icarus, me and Jason have a history. I long ago “profiled” him as “fringe” phobic. It was a trait commonly seen among libertarians who were squemish of Ron Paul. I think his stance ends up shooting himself in the foot.
Red Phillips May 20, 2009 at 5:41 pm: Oops … should be squeamish.
Dave Bearse May 20, 2009 at 5:49 pm: DonnaC:

The problem with your complaining about bailing out California is that the state has been a cash cow for years. The federal government spends only about four-fifths of the federal taxes collected there. Georgia may be break even, but as indicated in the link, the red states generally have a well-established pattern of freeloading on blue states.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

Try again. GOP fiscal conservatism in action has been a joke.
Jason Pye May 20, 2009 at 5:55 pm: I wasn’t “squemish” of Ron Paul. I voted for him, but I’m not afraid to call him out when he is wrong and take mindless rants from zombies like yourself. And…yes, Ron Paul can be wrong. It’s blasphemous!
benjycompson May 20, 2009 at 6:17 pm: Powerful video is right. Powerfully offensive, to me. What grinds my grits the most is the idea he put forward that those who have not served in the military are somehow not qualified, or not AS qualified, to voice dissent. Sorry Mr. Porthress, you may have a long career in the military but you still put your pants on one leg at the time, just like I do.
Just_A_Grunt May 20, 2009 at 7:11 pm: First thanks Jason for correcting the previous code. Hint, hint preview is your friend.

The point about people not looking beneath the surface on what Mr Poythress says in this video is indeed the problem, but what does it say for his integrity? Once you lose it, it is a hard thing to recover. If he is stretching the truth this far, this early in the campaign what is he going to do the closer we get to the primaries?
I have had enough of “nuance” and blatant misrepresentations from politicians. The biggest thing that chaps my hide though is he won’t be called on the carpet for this, rather he will get a pass because he belongs to the “right” political party.
At this point I also don’t believe any of the Republican candidates need to spend any time or money responding to it just yet. If he winds up being the Dems choice after the primaries then by all means I would fire back and I would make sure to let folks know that he doesn’t really want to be a governor of a sovereign state but rather just another czar in the Democrat political apparatchik.
Why do you want to be governor if you don’t believe in putting your state ahead of the out of touch critters in DC?
GOPGeorgia May 20, 2009 at 7:58 pm: “Powerful video is right. Powerfully offensive, to me. What grinds my grits the most is the idea he put forward that those who have not served in the military are somehow not qualified, or not AS qualified, to voice dissent. Sorry Mr. Porthress, you may have a long career in the military but you still put your pants on one leg at the time, just like I do.”

Ditto.

Otherwise phrased as PORTHRESS IS A LIAR. I have not been in the military nor do I have to be to accurately point out that he is a liar.
IndyInjun May 20, 2009 at 7:59 pm: Pure bunk!

I don’t see Poythress getting on his high horse and denouncing the assault on the Constitution by Obama any more than I saw it from the GOP delegation when Bush was POTUS.

Mr. Poythress, why don’t you go after the Dems and GOPers who are giving states valid reasons to seek secession?

The Fed, the Treasury, and the rest of the administration is turning the USA into a latter day fascist – yes the word fits – state of which Benito Mussolini could be proud, sweeping away the US Constitution and this jackass is spewing about secession?

I have not taken on the GOP hacks here doing the same thing over the last few years to let BS from the other side, like this, go unchallenged.

What we have is the GREATEST THEFT in world history and the pathetic Poythresses and Isaksons of Georgia put forth this crap?
Ramblinwreck May 20, 2009 at 9:13 pm: Spearking of the Constitution and our elected officials, will someone from the Georgia GOP please send a copy of the Government Reform resolution we passed at the convention in Savannah Saturday to Senators Chambliss and Isakson? It said the Georgia Republican Party opposes government involvement in the private marketplace. Both voted yesterday to control what credit card companies can charge consumers. I can’t seem to find that authority in my copy of the Constitution.

I understand about the National parks gun bill that was attached but a compromise that still involves violating the Constitution is not much of a deal in my opinion.
GeorgePBurdell May 20, 2009 at 10:11 pm: Mr. Poythress, and other concerned citizens: you imply that we should never abandon our fellow countrymen, but in the same breathe imply you are the only one who loves the USA, and will stand under the American flag.

May I assert, we are all Americans; we all proudly stand under the American flag, but we also stand proudly under the flag of the State of Georgia. We all respect our Founding Fathers, but they broke ranks from the British Government… What say you about that?

I can’t remember an exact quote from any of the 4 candidates mentioned that said they would secede from the union. The United States is simply a collection of states, that united under a single purpose long ago. Standing up for the rights of each state to govern itself is not unpatriotic or secessionist. It is defending the constitution. Liberals and Progressive Republicans need to simply face the fact that conservatives are standing up for what they believe in; they are standing up for conservative values (what a concept?).

Conservatives making states rights arguments are simply defending the constitution. The Liberals, who believe they are doing the right thing, are defending the ‘right’ to change the constitution. This is where the major discussion should be. My opinion is to respect and defend the constitution, but everyone is open to have an opinion. Our troops have been doing their part. However, we have been losing ground here at home. We should all stand up and stand side by side to defend that document and ideals that made this country great!
jbf100 May 20, 2009 at 10:38 pm: I’m still shocked that there are folks on this blog who claim Wahington has given just cause for states to secede. No matter what some here say, I just can’t believe secession is mainstream, and as long as the Dems keep putting it out there for the voters to knaw on, the more radical Reps will appear.
Red Phillips May 20, 2009 at 11:04 pm: Actually Jason, I didn’t know you voted for Paul. I’m very glad to hear it. And neither do I think Paul is beyond criticism. I was critical of a comment he made regarding Huckabee and the “floating cross” controversy, and I got some grief from fellow Paul supporters for my criticism. And I think identifying myself as a paleocon and stating that I generally try to eschew rights talk identifies me as something other than a “zombie.”

My remark about those squeamish of Paul was a bit of short hand meant to communicate briefly to Icarus. If that doesn’t describe you accurately then I am sorry. What I meant was the Weigel, Reason Magazine, Kirchick, etc. types who got their panties in a wad over the newsletters, that Paul didn’t uncritically accept Darwinism, that he didn’t return a contribution, that he was less than worshipful of Lincoln, etc. The cosmo vs. yahoo dynamic in all that business was clear to all.

What is the point of saying for example “Oh look at crazy Nancy Schaefer talking to Alex Jones.” I didn’t listen to the whole thing but as best as I could tell 911 conspiracy theories didn’t come up. She was on there talking about Child Protective Services. I don’t have much use for 911 conspiracy theories, but the conspiracy theorists, like the poor, we have always with us and they are part of the coalition whether we like it or not. Alex Jones and his listeners are clearly more likely to be part of some revolutionary coalition that will bring about real change than is Jamie Kirchick.

There is very much of an “I’m a libertarian (insert third party or other sort of dissident), but I’m not one of those types of libertarians” feel to your m.o. Eww … the flaggers. Eww … the League. Etc. This does not advance the cause. It simply allows Jason Pye to publicly display his taint free piety. Think about it.
seenbetrdayz May 20, 2009 at 11:05 pm: This is quite possibly the best Republican campaign video I have ever seen.
Red Phillips May 20, 2009 at 11:08 pm: “I’m still shocked that there are folks on this blog who claim Wahington has given just cause for states to secede.”

jbf100, probably 90% of what the Federal Government does is not authorized by the Constitution. They are acting lawlessly with total disregard for the Constitution. What exactly would constitute cause in your mind?
USA1 May 20, 2009 at 11:20 pm: DonnaC:

I agree with you. I haven’t heard of a single GOP candidate calling for “succession” either. However, Ray McBerry has said “secession” would be a last resort.

Since you said, ” it makes me sick to my stomach when I see someone wrap themselves in the flag while sanctimoniously beating on their chests,” I’m curious to know who you voted for in the 2004 and 2008 presidential races? And who did you vote for in the 2002 US Senate race in Georgia?

Just_A_Grunt:

If you think Poythress is skilled at Battlefield Deception, then you must be in awe of the national Republican Party’s abilities to mislead the public this past decade.

I’m glad you know how the “other side” fights, but it’s too bad you don’t know how disgusting your own side has been.

I get a good laugh out of people like DonnC, Just_A_Grunt, benjycompson, and GOPGeorgia, and their poor grinded grits and chapped hides. The only thing some Republicans like more than mocking Democrats for being whiners, is to act like big babies themselves. It’s always a pleasure to watch the biggest bullies on the block squirm when a veteran, who happens to be a Democrat, uses his military service to his advantage against Republicans who have not served.

When Neal Boortz trots out the old “only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote,” I usually don’t hear to much opposition from Republican quarters. However, Republicans sure do get upset when their lack of military service is used against them.

If military service is so sacred to you, then I suggest you stay out of politics. As an independent who despises both parties equally (libertarians too, for that matter), I say tha ad is very effective. It puts those four Republicans on the defense. They have to both explain their positions to those Georgians opposed to secession, while not distancing themselves too far from their secessionist base.
GOPGeorgia May 20, 2009 at 11:29 pm: The four GOP candidates said they stood for states rights. That does not equal secession. That’s taking a close look at the tenth amendment. If you can show me in writing, not misquoted by Bill Ship, where they said they were in favor of secession, I will eat that paper. In the mean time, Poyrthress is a liar. Prove me wrong that he’s not.
Bill Simon May 20, 2009 at 11:33 pm: Red,

You’re not going to be able to secede from the USA for the simple reason that too many things are the property of the USA, and they are not easily moved, like:

1) The interstates of I-75, I-85, and I-20 are USA property. YOU won’t be able to drive on them without having a properly licensed vehicle and driver’s license.

2) Dobbins and Warner Robins AFBs, Ft. McPherson, Ft. Benning, etc. are all USA property. Try claiming any of these as Georgia property and see yourself mowed-down by a tank.

3) There will be no “National Guard” units installed here. Better start training those Georgia State Patrol folks to be a standing army for the Country of Georgia. Seeing as to how they will no longer need to patrol the federal interstates, this will free them-up.

These are just a few minor things you and your “planners” might have to spend some time on before you plant a flag and yell “Eff you, America!”
seenbetrdayz May 20, 2009 at 11:39 pm: I found this crap posted on one of those radical’s blogs. It burns me up to know that people get away with saying this kind of B.S. in America:

“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”

———- The rest of it can be read here, but I warn you, it is not for people who truly love their country:

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
griftdrift May 20, 2009 at 11:57 pm: I’ll see that and raise you…

“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate… we can not consecrate… we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government : of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.’

It amazes me that I have to remind people that the Republican Party was founded on the principle of Union.
USA1 May 21, 2009 at 1:21 am: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPtdxRTNQO8

Look at 5:15 to 9:25 in the video.
Jeff May 21, 2009 at 3:45 am: A few comments:

1) I get REALLY pissed off at vets who somehow think their service more noble than others’. YES, they serve a noble cause – mostly. At least they don’t make policy, they just follow orders. Still, I think the whole ’soldier’ v ‘warrior’ dichotomy is something more of them need to look at. Indeed, that very dichotomy is the very reason I never signed that particular dotted line. I’m going to fight for what is right, and NO ONE will stop me.

That said, there are FAR more battlefields than just the ones that involve guns and rockets, and these battlefields are JUST as important, the people that fight on them JUST as noble.

I’m talking about the little old church lady that works at the Rescue Mission in the heart of the inner city providing food and shelter for those that otherwise would have none. I’m talking about the teachers and preachers giving everything they’ve got to reach the minds and hearts of those in their charge. I’m talking about the janitors always cleaning up after everyone elses’ messes. I’m talking about the legislators that do their honest best to do what they feel is best for this State and this Nation. I’m even talking about the bloggers and other political activists that work to see their own philosophies realized. These battles are all just as epic and just as noble as the soldiers’, and their praises are among the most unpopular to sing.

Honestly, a better way to get my overall feelings here is to check out my response to ‘Monsters and the Weak’, a Small Town Soapbox Moby in the Morning aired late last week. I doubt I’ll ever be able to explain what I’m thinking here in a way that would be clearly understood.

2) Secession is WAR. Period. It was not something lightly considered the last time we did it, and it needs even more serious consideration now before it is even mentioned, much less done. Remember, we didn’t exactly create a freedom-based society the last time we did it, and we got our tails pretty well handed to us in the process. I highly doubt a modern outcome would be any better, and could actually prove to be far worse. The main result of the last version of this was a MASSIVE intervention of the Federal Government in the States, and to throw another Star Wars analogy out there, a second secession could truly be the impetus for the outright change in our Republic to an Empire. I STRONGLY urge those considering it – of ANY party – to remember the lessons from history and do not doom us to repeat them.
seenbetrdayz May 21, 2009 at 7:05 am: 2) Secession is WAR. Period. It was not something lightly considered the last time we did it, and it needs even more serious consideration now before it is even mentioned, much less done. Remember, we didn’t exactly create a freedom-based society the last time we did it, and we got our tails pretty well handed to us in the process. I highly doubt a modern outcome would be any better, and could actually prove to be far worse. The main result of the last version of this was a MASSIVE intervention of the Federal Government in the States, and to throw another Star Wars analogy out there, a second secession could truly be the impetus for the outright change in our Republic to an Empire. I STRONGLY urge those considering it – of ANY party – to remember the lessons from history and do not doom us to repeat them.

Despite the fact that we had a war last time there was a secession, war and secession are not dependent upon one another. In order for there to be a war, you have to have people willing to fight. But let’s suppose that a war does break out:

Ultimately, on one side, you will have people who believe that self-determination in an inalienable right (while these people are not eager to fight, they do believe in the principle of self-defense), and the other side will be made up of people who think that our government has done so splendidly well that it is worth it to remain loyal to it to the death, and to eradicate anyone who disagrees. I’ll leave you all to decide which category you fall in, if any. Perhaps you’re in a third group that would simply sit back and watch as those who believe in the principle of self-determination are steamrolled by a government that has performed flawlessly in telling free people what to do. Way to go, patriot.

Yet, I still don’t know who would fight, or why anyone would fight, in this unnecessary war to deny the right of self-determination to the people of the several states.

Bill made comment earlier that if a war ever broke out, poor Red Phillips would be mowed down by a tank. Now, I’m not really sure who the hell is going to be driving that tank, because there are so many unanswered questions:

Would it be the same troops who have been fighting overseas, extended tour through extended tour, redrafted and redrafted for a war that will not end? How about some of those who voted the Democrats to Congress in 2006 to end the war? Should we expect folks to believe that the very troops who took oaths to support and defend the Constitution of the United States are going to be mowing down the folks who became so disgusted with Washington’s disregard for it, that they made a stand in the last desperate way they knew how? Wait, I know, maybe the driver of that tank will be someone who came home and realized that the money for his veteran benefits went to Fannie and Freddie because they were too big to fail.

Well, anyway, I suppose I’ll start the vote:

All in favor of bringing Washington back into the Union?
GOPGeorgia May 21, 2009 at 8:09 am: The four GOP candidates said they stood for states rights. No one has proven that they said they were in favor of sessesion. One of them might have, maybe, but certianly not all four.

Let’s try an eqully asburd statement. Poyrthress is a cross-dresser with a bad wig, ugly makeup, and two shoes that don’t don’t match..
martha zoller May 21, 2009 at 8:22 am: Who in Georgia is talking secession rhetoric? and talking about the roles of the Feds and the states isn’t secession…
Doug Deal May 21, 2009 at 8:30 am: GOPGa,

We should check with Eric and find out if Poyrthress has any sort of relations with goats.
Progressive Dem May 21, 2009 at 8:42 am: When Americans from any state go down a path that leads to even mentioning, let alone considering secession, they have completely lost their bearings. They have reached the land of the lunatics where the black helicopters fly, the tin foil hats are standard issue and the missing wmd can be found. Get a grip folks. Adapt and retool.

And Republican conservative leaders better speak up, even if you’re labeled a “moderate”. The nut cases in your party are going to drive your party affiliation numbers through the floor.
Progressive Dem May 21, 2009 at 8:50 am: MZ
Apparently it is a viable option for a third of Georgia Republicans.

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2009/05/02/dailykos-poll-nearly-one-third-of-georgia-republicans-favor-independence-from-us/
John Konop May 21, 2009 at 8:54 am: When a kid plays with matches that does mean he or she wants to burn the house down. But when you play with fire it is dangerous.

This is a red meat topic to the fringe! And this will backfire on the GOP!
John Konop May 21, 2009 at 9:00 am: Do you really think this is a winning message? And this is what you get!

Red Phillips 05.18.09 at 11:05 pm

All talk of wanting the Feds to actually follow the Constitution is nothing but worthless babble, time wasting gum beating unless you are willing to back up that talk with action. Secession is a perfectly legal and constitutional remedy for Federal usurpation. As is nullification. How do all the big talkers on here propose to get the Feds to operate within constitutional bounds? Elect Karen Handel or Ox? Or do you not really care about the Feds following the Constitution? Is it all just talk?

Saying that secession is somehow anti-country is foolish modern statism. A country is NOT its government at any given moment. It is the people talking secession who really love their country and want to save it. They love the country we were left by the Founders. They love the Old Republic not the new democracy. They are the real patriots.

http://www.peachpundit.com/2009/05/08/secession-count-me-out/
Kellie May 21, 2009 at 9:03 am: A third does not make a majority. Plus I don’t recall any of the GOP candidates being in on that poll, oh yea it was done by Democrats.
There are a lot of people that are tired of the Federal Government taking more and more from them. At this point, anything is an option that does not mean it would be acted on.

As for the comment on service, I don’t think it is required any more than college. Both have their place depending on the position a person is running for.
ChuckEaton May 21, 2009 at 9:18 am: Secession is a long way from having a discussion about the increasing strength of the federal government over the states. Sourcing Bill Shipp, who was sourcing a questionable poll by a partisan blog, is a little shady. It wasn’t too long ago Vermont was talking about secession. It’s basically a joke.

Whether you agree with more federal power or not, personally I don’t, it’s not up for dispute that the federal government’s role in our lives has increased massively since the New Deal. The FDR court packing attempt is based on the Supreme Court’s original dismissal of his New Deal programs. The proposed laws were traditionally left up to the states. Over time, as older members of the court left, and the fear and panic of the Depression overwhelmed everyone, the federal rules were implemented.

This two government tension is set-up in the Constitution; we fought a war over it. I’m a big fan of the late historian, Shelby Foote, who had a key role in the Ken Burns’ documentaries. One of the most interesting points I thought he made was, “The Civil War caused the United States to become an ‘is’ instead of an ‘are’.”

I think Poythress needs to come up with names.
John Konop May 21, 2009 at 9:22 am: ChuckEaton

It is not joke to people like Red Phillips.
John Konop May 21, 2009 at 9:34 am: Is this a winning message for the GOP?

From the campaign director for Ray McBerry

…..As a state, Georgia must stand against the increasing tide of federal tyranny that threatens our life and liberty. Our people are federally taxed, and then those taxes return to our state as the federal government sees fit. We must abide by certain standards and rules they set for us, in order for the wealth of our people to be returned to us. This is tyranny.

We are forced to use a currency over which we have absolutely no control. The Federal Reserve is a private institution. It makes decisions based on self-interest. It is not interested in advancing or protecting the wealth of average Americans. The Federal Reserve is interested on capitalizing on the foreign policy of the United States that chains us to poverty and debt. It is interested in capitalizing on a Congress who refuses to balance our budget. It capitalizes on Americans who have become fat off the food of entitlement, and languidly waste away having forgotten the beauty of self-sufficiency and being content with enough. The Federal Reserve dollars in our pockets and bank accounts gain or lose value as the Federal Reserve sees fit. This is hidden theft and hidden taxation. This is tyranny……

http://www.georgiahla.com/
Red Phillips May 21, 2009 at 9:46 am: John, what about what I said do you factually object to? Do you or do you not concede that the Feds are operating beyond their constitutional authority? If you don’t then we are on different wavelengths. If you do then what do you propose we do about it? Just live with it like good little serfs?

People who say talking about states rights and federalism and the 10th amendment is not secession are technically right. It isn’t. But if the Feds continue to trample the 10th amendment what are you going to do about it? Ask them nicely to stop? Secession is a logical endpoint of such talk. Not necessarily an inevitable outcome, that depends on the Fed’s response and the seriousness of the supporters of federalism, but such talk is inherently radical in today’s climate. Either embrace the radicalness of the position or shut up about it.

Bill, I don’t think anyone thinks secession is practical or supported by enough people at present. Talk of secession today is like the Fire Eaters in the 1850s. It is laying a groundwork. But if Georgia were theoretically to secede then clearly I-75, the bases, etc. would come with us as they would be on sovereign Georgia property. When Slovakia broke from Czechoslovakia did Czechoslovakia have a claim on it’s old property that was in the new Slovakia?

Secession is not a provocative act. It is an inherently peaceful act. It is simply one group of people choosing to go their own way. If tanks are involved it is because the larger entity being seceded from chooses that aggressive course as happened the last time some States chose to exercise their constitutional right to do so thanks to that tyrant Lincoln.

The issue that stands in the way is not going to be interstates and bases. It is going to be people who do not want to give up the booty they receive from the Feds that they have come to expect. SS, Medicare, employees of said bases, etc.

I actually don’t think secession is going to happen. I think a more likely scenario is that the Fed Gov as we know it is going to collapse under its own unsustainable weight and the regions will be left to pick up the pieces. Like the former Soviet Union. (It is just not tenable that we can continue to live well beyond our means and have the Fed churning out the Monopoly money and not have to some day pay the piper.)
John Konop May 21, 2009 at 9:55 am: Red Phillips

This is America and you the right to believe what you want. But the reality is like your gold standard idea creating Armageddon to make an ideological point without taking into considerations the ramification is just irresponsible.

No one was more outspoken and took more heat about the financial issues than I years ago. But at the same time it is more important to put forth rational pragmatic solutions than destroying our country.

Comments on this entry are closed.

Archives