Which, of course, it’s not truly about curtailing the powers of the federal government, it’s pandering to an angry base.

Ever heard of this thing called the Supreme Court? OR, do you just want to go instantly to war mode, Red?

Saying that secession is somehow anti-country is foolish modern statism. A country is NOT its government at any given moment. It is the people talking secession who really love their country and want to save it. They love the country we were left by the Founders. They love the Old Republic not the new democracy. They are the real patriots.

I am tired of calling him by the bald-faced lie that persists by using the name “Goldwater”. Since he cannot possible be referring to Berry Goldwater, he must be referring to the only obvious golden liquid. And since he is peeing on B.G.’s legacy, it is a perfect match. Plus, it is basic truth in advertising.

If he would like to choose a more accurate name that doesn’t defame someone that I respect, I would be happy to refer to him by it.

PERFECT name for him!

The supremacy clause is only applicable if the Federal Government is adhering to the limits found in the rest of the Constitution, which is the point of the resolutions pointing to the existence of the 10th.

You cannot argue that one part of the document should be followed, when you so flippantly ignore the parts that are contrary to your goals.

Regardless, neither GA nor Texas nor Oklahoma are going to secede. I just hope the trailer park trash doesn’t fall for the rhetoric and show up en masse to vote, again, for an agenda that doesn’t help them out.

Just consider the facts for a second. No Fortune 1000 company will maintain an office in the country of Georgia. No military will be left, the only citizens that will receive any fed. benefits (ie welfare and OASDI) will need to leave the state. Heck, we can’t get the GOP of GA to agree on a method of financing a transportation overhaul…what would happen when the feds stopped sending their check for highway improvements? This state barely functions with the assistance of the federal government…secession? Come on. People like Paul Broun and Tom Price already hate latin american immigrants for being from third-world countries. GA would be a 3rd world country within a generation of secession.

On top of that…what is all this garbage about the Kentucky Resolutions? Nobody signed onto them…and guess what? It was very easy to have a strict constuctionist in the passing few decades after the Constitution was ratified…because not much happened yet. “There was no CNN, there was no CNBC, there was no Internet…” The list of things that were not even conceived by the imagination of the late 18th century goes on.

Also, they were written as a response to the Alien and Sedition Acts!

The PATRIOT Act was close to this, but nothing Obama or the Democrats have even thought of comes close to the Alien and Sedition Acts. Get over it. The GOP lost and it will continue to lose if its followers remain true to the right-wing Cheney/Limbaugh philosophy. Nothing Cheney or Limbaugh wants will help you or this country. Name one thing that a no bid defense contract to Haliburton did for this country!

I hear all this garbage about “nanny state” liberals…look in the mirror. You “conservatives” have become stupid and weak. You follow blindly rather than thinking for yourselves. You obstruct rather than reason. I hope I can see my brand of conservatism come back to life before mine ends. I am disgusted that sycophants like Tom Price are able to beat the John Konops of this America in democratic elections. Good television commercials, tons of campaign signs and a tip of the hat from the right wing preachers are all you need to win. We have become to weak to think for ourselves…and seek out information before making decisions. Even holding elective office in this country is a profession void of merit. It is patronage…plain and simple.

Did you not read all the way to the end? From the final paragraph:

That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government.

It would be one thing if the resolution suggested that an extra-Constitutional statute would be deemed void and unenforceable, and that the state of Georgia would not recognize demands by the federal government to abide by its terms.

It’s a wholly different creature to claim that the passage of a single extra-Constitutional statute completely voids the Constitution, and dissolves the USA. It doesn’t actually threaten secession; it makes the erroneous factual claim that the authority of the federal government itself automatically ceases to exist, and all states revert to sovereign, independent entities.

If you can’t see why this is a patently ridiculous position to take, merely consider how often the Supreme Court has to strike down a federal law as unconstitutional. Are we seriously supposed to accept that any of one of those unconstitutional statutes could or should result in the failure of the Constitution itself?

And most strangely of all, whereas the overwhelming majority of the bill is taken straight from a 1798 resolution by Thomas Jefferson, those last few paragraphs about voiding the Constitution aren’t from Jefferson. As best I can tell, they appear to have been written by some present-day New Hampshire legislator, and yet they contain the most extreme language in the entire resolution.

I don’t put much stock in groups like this. It would be like claiming that Louisiana and the states created from the territory were not really part of the United States because the Constitution does not allow for the purchase of lands from a foreign nation. Florida and Alaska would fall under this category as well.

There is nothing in the Constitution about lands obtained through right of conquest like California and much of the West.

As I’m sure there are people who believe in werewolves and elves, allow these people to believe Texas is still a separate nation.

But I agree John, no governor should be pandering to their fantasies any more than an elected official should pander to the fantasies of a group who would believe in werewolves or elves.

I have pointed out the problems with unfunded mandates like No child Left Behind, Drug Prescription bill……while taking hits from both sides. My issue is the pandering to groups and firing them up who will take it to a deferent level. And it is clear that is what Governor Perry is doing. My only point is I hope OX does not do that in the GOP primary. It is dangerous to pander to groups like Republic of Texas.

The Republic of Texas is a group of individuals that claims that the annexation of Texas by the United States was illegal and that Texas remains an independent nation under occupation. The issue of the Legal status of Texas led the group to claim to reinstate a provisional government on December 13, 1995. Activists within the movement claim over 40,000 active supporters; however, there is no widespread popular support for an independent Texas.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas_(group)

A Nation Standing Under God is Re-Born

The republic of Texas Nation 1836-Present

Texas is a North American sovereign Nation standing under God’s law that is alive and surviving after being fraudulently placed in a dormant state on or about 163 years ago and was released from said dormancy in September 2005. The republic of Texas Nation was brought out of dormancy by a National Texian People’s ballot election for the reconstituting of their constitutional Texas republic Government in compliance with the 1836 organic republic of Texas Constitution as amended and accepted by the Texian People and for the Texian People.

How It Started

It started with an unlawful annexation by resolution from the US Congress after a Treaty of Annexation was voted down three to one by the US Senate in 1844. There is no provision in the U.S. Constitution that allows its Congress any authority for annexing a foreign nation, which the Constitutional Texas republic is and was at that time. To accomplish annexation, the U.S. House and Senate passed an unlawful joint resolution using color of law. There was not a quorum present to vote on the matter, so it was passed unlawfully. Further, only the US Senate by a two-thirds majority vote can pass an annexation treaty, and their annexation authority is limited to territories, and therefore, does not extend to nations. Through this fraud, the republic of Texas Nation in 1845 was placed in dormancy and The State of Texas was unlawfully created, by color of law trickery.
Re-claiming Sovereignty

The government of the republic of Texas Nation has now lawfully been vested back into the hands of the people of Texas as a constitutional republic nation. This process is not an act of seceding from the U.S. since history shows that citizens of the republic of Texas never voted to cede their land in the first place.

http://www.texasrepublic.info/

The problem is over the past century, states have become so dependent on federal money that the vast majority of states would do nothing if push came to shove and the very, very few who would have the will would seem to be making the proverbial protest where no one showed up. Most state’s are like cigarette smokers, they complain about the effects smoking has on their body, about the price they have to pay to support their habit, the freedoms they no longer have (can’t smoke on planes, in offices, in restaurants, etc), but they continue to smoke year after year.

Passing a resolution like these are like when smokers quit for a day because it is the Great American Smoke Out. For the most part, it means nothing, but for a few days, it makes us all feel good.

STATE OF OKLAHOMA

2nd Session of the 51st Legislature (2008)

HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 1089

AS INTRODUCED

A Joint Resolution claiming sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over certain powers; serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates; and directing distribution.

WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”; and

WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as being that specifically granted by the Constitution of the United States and no more; and

WHEREAS, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states; and

WHEREAS, today, in 2008, the states are demonstrably treated as agents of the federal government; and

WHEREAS, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and

WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and

WHEREAS, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE OF THE 2ND SESSION OF THE 51ST OKLAHOMA LEGISLATURE:

THAT the State of Oklahoma hereby claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States.

THAT this serve as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers.

THAT a copy of this resolution be distributed to the President of the United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate of each state’s legislature of the United States of America, and each member of the Oklahoma Congressional Delegation.

51-2-9466

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=45342.0

This is walking a fine line and it is clear he is pandering to the movement. I am not sure what the numbers are but it is clear a portion of the GOP supports the idea. As I said my guess is it is a small loud group yet politicians pandering to this group demonstrates lack of sound judgment. And that is why I wonder how far OX wants to push the issue?

Gov. Rick Perry says secession is on Texans’ minds

…. Although Perry made it clear that he doesn’t see the need to secede and isn’t advocating it, he said there’s no question that it’s on the mind of some Texans. That was obvious at tea parties around the state, where “Secede” was a popular sign slogan.
“Texas is a unique place,” the governor told reporters in Austin. “When we came into the union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that.
“My hope is that America, and Washington in particular, pays attention,” he said. “We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that? But Texas is a very unique place, and we’re a pretty independent lot, to boot.”…..

http://www.star-telegram.com/state_news/story/1320077.html

Dark Knight Begins – one book is not history. It is an opinion on history. If you read works written up through the War for Southern Independence, the phrase “United States” is often used as a plural. That is how our founders understood it, trhat is how Americans understood it, and they were under no delusions about whether we were a nation of sovereign States. Colonial adolescence? Please!

Just wanted to give proper credit, and thought I had done so using the cite attribute of the blockquote tag.

I read a book on the War of 1812 that makes a great point about how truly pivotal that war was. Many of the things we know to be ‘patriotic’, including Old Ironsides, massive flags, The Star Spangled Banner, both form and name of the White House, etc all came out of that war.

It ends with this paragraph:

So what had the war accomplished? With plenty of missteps, the United States had cast aside its cloak of colonial adolescence and stumbled forth onto the world stage. To be sure, there would be family quarrels – one of which would threaten to tear it assunder two generations hence. But after th War of 1812, the United States was a singular term, not plural. After the War of 1812, there was no longer any doubt that the United States of America would become a force to be reckoned with in North America and in time throughout the world. The war had forged a nation.

This topic deserves no real discussion on the merits. The only takeaway here is that heavy partisan types include a ton of utter retards… and most political discourse today is mocking the other side’s retards, while doing damage control for your own retards saying the exact same kinds of things. The pendulum swings every 8 years, give or take.