Paragraph IV. Qualifications of Governor and Lieutenant Governor. No person shall be eligible for election to the office of Governor or Lieutenant Governor unless such person shall have been a citizen of the United States 15 years and a legal resident of the state six years immediately preceding the election and shall have attained the age of 30 years by the date of assuming office.
-Article V. Section I, Constitution of the State of Georgia
Bill Gates.
Ted Turner.
Michael Dell.
Karl Rove.
Casey Cagle.
Karen Handel.
Tell me. What do these six individuals have in common?
The answer is that none of them finished college.
Bill Gates, Michael Dell and Karl Rove all dropped out of college. Ted Turner was kicked out of college. Casey Cagle attended, but never finished college. And Karen Handel left home at age 17, started at the bottom of the corporate ladder and worked her way to the top.
These six individuals are all very accomplished, and the common thread they share is that none of them have college degrees.
There is a debate emerging on Political Insider and Shepherd’s Political Pie about whether a college degree should be required in order to be considered a legitimate candidate for Governor of Georgia.
Jason Shepherd, an Oxendine supporter, writes that “there are at least two candidates on the Republican side [...] applying for the State’s top job [who] are hoping that the requirements don’t include a college degree.”
While Lt. Governor Casey Cagle attended both Gainesville College and Georgia Southern University, an injury ended both his football and college career. By the age of 20 he was back home in Gainesville where he started a small tuxedo rental business. In 1994, at the age of 28, he was elected to the state senate.Karen’s resume as an executive only rivals Oxendine’s on the Republican side. She has also been very successful in her roles and has been successful at each level.
But does that experience negate the need to have a college degree?
Source: Shepherd’s Political Pie, “Chief Executive Wanted: Must Have College Degree”, January 9, 2009
My answer is yes it does.
Much like the Georgians they desire to lead, Casey Cagle and Karen Handel worked hard; they played by the rules; they had their tough times and they persevered; and they both have managed to carve out relatively successful lives for themselves. . .
. . .All without a college degree.
And I say with little hesitation that the life stories of Georgia’s first Republican Lt. Governor and Secretary of State are both very compelling and makes them both very attractive gubernatorial candidates. Their stories are the nearly identical to those of many other citizens of this state.
Constitutionally, there are only three requirements to be elected Governor of Georgia.
You must have been a U.S. citizen for a least fifteen years, a resident of Georgia for at least six years and be at least thirty years old.
That’s it.
So, are Karen Handel and Casey Cagle qualified to be governor?
Yes.
Will they be elected governor?
Well, that’s up for the people of Georgia to decide. But, I’m pretty sure that most voters will not automatically disqualify Cagle and Handel for the state’s top job simply because they don’t have a piece of paper that says they’re smart.
And anyone, Democrat or Republican, who would make a campaign issue out of that is a getting a little too uppity.
{ 84 comments }
My teacher hubby has a 6 year master’s degree and I make more than he does because of my experience in the IT field. I don’t have a college degree but did attend college for a few yers. Experience means much more than a college degree sometimes.
If Oxendine tries to make having a college degree an issue, he will lose and he will tick off many people that like him…He will also be proving that he is not quite as smart as he would have us believe…Jason Shepherd is doing his candidate a disservice by bringing this up….
They all majored in pandering to whoever is in the room at the time, the true test of a real politician.
“”Bill Gates, Michael Dell and Karl Rove all dropped out of college. Ted Turner was kicked out of college. Casey Cagle attended, but never finished college. “”
I find your spin on CC attendance interesting – he “attended, but never finish” isn’t that dropping out? Just because he couldn’t play football doesn’t mean he couldn’t go to school.
The elitist attitude will come back to bite Oxendine and his supporters if he isn’t very careful. In college, I remember friends that had opportunities that came up or that they created.They pursued their business interests and their success in the private sector did not allow time to come back and complete the checklist for a piece of paper.
People like Cagle and Handel have gained invaluable experience in life through their pursuits. Cagle has built businesses from nothing and served as a senator and now Lieutenant Governor. He is a key person in framing the $20 billion state budget. Handel has served in various governmental capacities, and is now our Secretary of State.
Either Cagle or Handel would be better that someone who believes that they “deserve” to be Governor simply because they have a degree.
Honestly, there are some in the state that will see Ox’s degree as a plus. People such as my own mom, who pushed me to get my degree and is still pushing my two younger brothers to get theirs. Also people such as many college professors and even many college graduates, who look down – for whatever reason – on those without degrees.
The question, though, is can he win by bringing that up?
And to that, I think he will surely lose if he makes it a central campaign issue, or even makes a big deal of it. A casual mention of it should be enough to help get any who could be convinced just on that to vote for him. Anything bigger than that, and I say he loses far more support than he gains.
Ask any Georgian around you, and we can typically name SEVERAL people we know and trust that have been very successful WITHOUT a degree. Handel and Cagle come to mind during this discussion, but I can also point to any of a few dozen people I’ve known for years, and these are people throughout the state.
It’s probably not the best for your case that the only politician listed besides the gubernatorial candidates is Karl Rove. Doesn’t take much education to advise your people to simply make stuff up as you go.
Dell and Gates both left school in order to jump into the computer world – a place where there was no college degree at the time, it was learn as you go. They also made *major* use of any computing facility they had access to at the time (guys like Wozniac love to tell stories about how their department heads told them they were bankrupting the place with all of their mainframe use). Also, just because these guys did it, does not mean that there is no use to a computer science degree (since it recapitulates in four years what these guys, and a huge community beyond them, did).
Also, there is a big difference between becoming a leader (usually in business or politics) and being able to (properly) handle policy in an increasingly technocratic world.
odinseye2k,
Here’s a short list of political figures lacking a college degree:
Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota;
Michael Moore, Oscar-winning film-maker;
Rush Limbaugh, conservative talk radio host;
Al Sharpton, former Democratic candidate for President; and
Barry “Mr. Conservative” Goldwater.
With the exception of Barry Goldwater, that list does not help your case.
Andre,
You’re really not making a strong case. I’d quit while you are ahead.
Icarus,
Jinx!
Why can’t we just stick to the constitution of GA. & then let people debate the issue if they want to run on that.
Most of the folks in the capitol have a college degree. How many have common sense?
Well, working in the private sector my advice is to take experience and achievement over book-learning any day of the week.
Of course those whose only experience is book-learning will make an issue of Casey & Karen’s lack of a degree. I expect the AJC to bring up the issue alot. I suspect they’ll even endorse Oxendine because of it (and because they want the absolute worst candidate to get the nomination and embarrass the Georgia GOP).
My point is this:
Whether you agree or disagree with their political positions, you cannot deny that Casey Cagle and Karen Handel have managed to have successful political careers in spite of their not have a piece of paper that says they’re smart.
There are many, many Georgians out there who are exactly like the Lt. Governor and the Secretary of State.
For example, in Gwinnett County, there is a school bus driver who makes less than $30,000 annually. She recently bought a town home in Duluth and she spends most of her time raising her young son all by herself.
Now I dare you to approach this lady and tell her that she can’t be Governor simply because she has no college degree. I dare you to tell this woman that even though she may have some good ideas and even though she may be able to draw on her own life experiences as the chief executive of this state, that she still can’t be the governor of Georgia because she doesn’t have letters behind her name.
I’m going to be honest here, that’s pretty damn un-American. And I say that because we live in a country where we are all taught from birth that we can be whatever we want.
As I said earlier, there are only 3 qualifications to be the governor of this state. You must have been a U.S. citizen for a least fifteen years, a resident of Georgia for at least six years and be at least thirty years old.
Karen Handel, Casey Cagle and anyone else who meets those 3 requirements are all qualified to be governor. That piece of paper saying that they’re smart is just icing on the cake.
Anyone who tries to make a campaign issue over Handel or Cagle not having an advanced degree is setting themselves up for defeat.
It makes that person look elitist and uppity.
I think the biggest advantage of a college degree is that you know where to look when your experience and achievement fail you. Folks listed above are those that either stayed with one thing (Dell and the make-a-computer biz) or have a very major passion for learning that transcends the place they are a part of (Bill Gates).
The governor of a state requires the active knowledge (or at least the ability to do some wheat / chaff separation of your various staffers, soothsayers, and old drinking buddies) of economics, ecology, education (since the school system is a major state duty), infrastructure formation and use, and of course a bit of politics. A healthy understanding of the law probably isn’t a bad thing, either.
Of course, when your experience with “book-learning” are bachelors students in political science from UGA … well, you may have a low estimate of the value of college.
OD2K,
Please watch your mailbox for a coupon to receive your free coke.
“For example, in Gwinnett County, there is a school bus driver who makes less than $30,000 annually. She recently bought a town home in Duluth and she spends most of her time raising her young son all by herself.
Now I dare you to approach this lady and tell her that she can’t be Governor simply because she has no college degree.”
Um … I’m not saying this lady is a bad person – but do *you* want her running your state?
“It makes that person look elitist and uppity.”
It’s the Governorship, not a standard three squares and a decent home. I think a certain degree of elitism is warranted.
Any candidate with common sense will not debate this issue in GA because it iwll be a loser for them.
“I think a certain degree of elitism is warranted.”
I consider myself somewhat of an elitist (shocking, I know), but not a snob. I think there is a huge difference.
As an elitist, I expect to be able someone in a leadership role to have a vision of where he/she is trying to lead, an ability to articulate that vision and plan, and the ability to execute that plan.
A college degree, in and of itself, is not required to do that.
Nor does having a college degree keep you from pandering to the lowest common denominator of the electorate, like say, by calling for military action because gas lines are long, or telling gun owners that their rights are being taken away just because we don’t want to waste an entire session arguing over how many weapons you can take to the alter when you pray on Sunday.
CBP,
On that level, I agree. It’s just bad politics to show 75% of your electorate that the opponent has something in common with them.
Ecology? That’s a subject I missed in my prereqs…
Any candidate with common sense will not debate this issue in GA because it iwll be a loser for them.
Common sense is neither common nor does it always make sense. Especially in political races.
Do I want her running my state?
Yes. Yes, I do. And she could easily be the next Karen Handel once her son is an adult.
As I’ve said repeatedly, there are only three requirements to be governor of the State of Georgia:
1.) You must have been a United States citizen for 15 years;
2.) You must have been a resident of Georgia for 6 years; and
3.) You must be at least 30 years old.
To paraphrase the Clone Of B. Plyler, why don’t we stick to the Constitution of the State of Georgia and then let the people decide.
That’s why we have elections.
Odi,
Let me make it more plain. Maybe you should run for office on this college degree angle.
Bill,
Please assure me that you are not a legislator!
Which of 2 previous comments have you panicked, Clone?
“Maybe you should run for office on this college degree angle.”
Maybe an appointment. I would love to use the “it doesn’t take a rocket scientist” for pure corniness value, though.
Bill,
“”"Common sense is neither common nor does it always make sense. Especially in political races.”"”" That is a profound statement.
All I can say is, this is going to be a hot election cycle, and it is going to be a long one.
“All I can say is, this is going to be a hot election cycle, and it is going to be a long one.”
I agree so why are we debating now? Isakson could jump in and throw everything off… Why waste time debating now?
Bill,
the common sense one.
And, Clone, why does that statement panic you? How old are you?
Odi,
Actually, that’s a pretty good slogan.
Debbie,
If you read the whole blog I wrote, I put a high premium on actual real world service, but there have been others who have brought it up and said they cannot vote for someone without a degree. I have watch my single mother build three very successful businesses without a college degree, actually, with much less college than Handel or Cagle has.
I think a college degree is important, but it is part of the total package. I voted for the #2 option in my poll.
Truthfully, what did a degree in veterinarian medicine teach someone about running a state government? Nothing. It is the experience that Sonny learned out of college that he has used as governor.
There are a lot of you who will say the man with the Harvard MBA, George W. Bush didn’t do nearly as well as President as the graduate from Eurka College (Ronald Reagan).
But a campaign is a job interview and there is no one who puts in a resume for a job and leaves off education.
Personally, I would expect the Democrats who tend to be education elitists, to make it an issue. You just have to look at some of the Dems on here and how they talk down to those in this state who have less formal education, forgetting these are the bulk of the folks who keep Georgia’s economy running by building the small businesses that form the backbone of our economy.
I still think it’s an interesting debate for (pardon the pun) academic reasons, but all in all a degree does not matter in the least. Competency and character are far more important than a college degree.
It definitely wasn’t an issue many of you on here, you included, hit Oxendine for supporting Cagle and more than a few who are supporting Cagle now said you would NEVER support Oxendine again because he was helping Cagle against Reed. http://www.peachpundit.com/2006/06/09/oxendine-on-cagle/
Cagle beat a PhD (Reed) and a JD (Martin). I also think that one of the problems with Georgia education is the push for everyone to go to college and neglecting, especially at the high school level, more vocational training, some of which pays a lot better than college.
I started off the debate on my blog putting out the fact that, according to careerbuilder.com, many of the fastest growing, best paying jobs require no degree. For all of the ones they listed, all of them have an average higher than what I currently make.
My uncle never went to college, but as a master mechanic he makes more than a comfortable living for his family. He also owned his own shop for awhile before selling it and taking over the shop at a dealership for more money and less hassel.
I tried to leave the door open on my blog for discussion, but everyone is discussing either here or on the AJC so it is here and there I have to continue the debate.
Remember, there is a poll up so be sure to vote: http://www.shepherdspoliticalpie.blogspot.com/
I don’t really care if someone has a degree. I do expect them to be smart, which usually – not always- comes with a degree.
If someone graduated from Harvard, you know they must be smart; it’s a tough school to get into.
If someone graduated from a trade school, you’d have some concern and need to learn more about him to come to a conclusion on whether or not he is really smart enough to be governor.
If a person graduated from a local high school, you’d really be skeptical.
This is normal.
We are trying to get young people to realize school is important and I think seeing that from our leaders does help.
I should add, if a person graduates from high school then served in the military or has been in business for themself for 20 years, that makes a huge difference on how they are viewed.
Being in politics all their working life does nothing for me.
And for the record, I saw the issue on Galloway’s blog and re-asked the question. I did not consult, ask or seek permission from the Oxendine camp to put it up. Since I am a supporter, and nothing more (you all may have noticed I was not on the statewide leadership team that Oxendine posted), I do not speak for the campaign.
Given my family background, I doubt I could support anyone who would try to make this an issue in the campaign.
“Harvard MBA, George W. Bush…”
Well, let’s be honest. The guy was a legacy admit and a great number of his professors told him he basically wiped his butt with the degree.
On the other hand, the guy that graduated near the bottom of his class in the Naval Academy just got it handed to him by a guy that did quite well in Harvard Law and taught classes at U-Chicago. The same guy who has this strange need to appoint people with credentials in his Cabinet, like that Nobel dude at Energy.
So the college degree isn’t necessarily everything. Although, when looking at the value of my own degree, I compare my skills with those of my father. He’s an excellent computer wizard (hardware and software, often embarrasses the guys with the paper certifications), skills that got him a rather good job. However, his experiences and knowledge come from a lifetime of effort – to some degree, mine now match or surpass his and I’ve only had a handful of years of training.
“Odi,
Actually, that’s a pretty good slogan.”
I thank you for being my focus group.
The difference here is Cagle was successful in business before public office. Handels only success has come in public office. Unless you count lobbying as a job? I hate it when lobbyists run for office, kind of like the fox wathching the hen house.
“If someone graduated from Harvard, you know they must be smart; it’s a tough school to get into.”
Ah, the power of branding. It’s not a tough school to get into if your family has money/power/picture of the college president in an embarrassing situation.
As for OX- does anyone really care….. Well, except for his staff, that includes Shep…..
I wasn’t even thinking about W.
My point is, without knowing anything else about a person you can learn a lot from their education. Keep in mind most voters don’t educate themselves on a candidate so their degree may be the only thing the voter goes by.
Rove is one spanish class short of a college degree.
What bothers me in this discussion is the denigration of a college degree. We have enough trouble in this state getting kids to value a high school diploma, let alone a college education. To dismiss a college education as something for elitist snobs makes me wonder why we should value education at all. If work experience is all that matters, we should just go back to putting our children to work at age 12.
I don’t think a college degree is necessary to be governor. Does it make me wonder how much a candidate without a degree values education, especially higher education? Yes, it does. Obviously, they didn’t think a college degree was worthwhile for themselves, and if they are a serious candidate for governor, they obviously succeeded without it. Is there room, however, to acknowledge that college is NOT for everyone while not at the same time dismissing those who do get a degree as effete snobs?
Bill
I started to use GA tech in my example but I thought it would just make all the GA fans mad.
Some of the dumbest people I know have College degrees. Having letters behind your name just means that you have the ability to pass exams. George W Bush, Dan Quail, Al Gore and Jimmy Carter all have college degrees. Does that make their actions and statements Smart?
Not by a long shot. Our country was not founded on how smart or how much education you have but what does this country need and how can we make that happen. A college degree does not necessarily make that happen. It just means somebody had the means to get one.
Oxendine and whom ever is pushing that idea is an idiot. And they had better go back to the town that is missing them.
JAC1975,
I don’t believe anyone has said, implied or suggested that a college education is something for “elitist snobs.”
However, for any person to say that a gubernatorial candidate is somehow disqualified from seeking to lead this state simply because they did not finish college would be taking an elitist and uppity stance in my opinion.
If you graduated college and are running for governor, that’s great.
If you didn’t graduate from college and are running for governor, then that’s great too.
There are only 3 qualifications to be governor of this state. You have to have been a U.S. citizen for 15 years. You have to have been a resident of Georgia for 6 years. And you have to be at least 30 years old.
Whether or not an individual finished college should not detract from their ability to be the chief executive officer of our great state so long as they have met all 3 constitutional qualifications.
And what I’m saying is that any person, Democrat or Republican, who would make an issue out of a gubernatorial candidate’s educational accomplishments is setting themselves up to be characterized as elite, uppity and ultimately, for an electoral defeat.
I agree that there are a lot of people with college degrees that aren’t very bright. I think a college degree is less important than experience in the workplace. Given that most colleges are full of liberal professors, what is a college degree other than further indoctrination in liberalism?
I have learned as an adult and particularly as a parent that my college degree isn’t worth the paper it is printed on, and I graduated with honors in three years instead of four. It makes no difference. I have learned a lot more on my own since graduating. In fact, I have figured out that a lot of what I was taught was outright wrong.
I have no idea who I am going to vote for in the governor’s race, but I will place a lot less emphasis in my mind on what academic credentials the candidates have and a lot more emphasis on principles and the way the candidates demonstrate their commitment to following their principles.
“I don’t believe anyone has said, implied or suggested that a college education is something for “elitist snobs.””
See just one comment above. I think that is a lot of the theme of the thread, that college is at best a helpful adjunct to one’s life and at worst a waste of four years and money. Book-learnin’ < School of Hard Knocks is a very common theme.
Experience is great and helpful. In fact, there is no theoretically body of knowledge that does very well with it as an anchor. The problem is that as you go higher and higher up the chain of command, you will be confronted with more and more problems that are beyond your personal experience and beyond your ability to ever experience ever aspect of the issues you are presented with.
At that point, the ability to choose between options and evaluate reports and research not on the surface, but on the soundness of method and science supporting them, and to evaluate which of the many advisors are presenting something with merit, becomes the main issue. That’s where an academic mindset and background are useful. It lies within that ability to sort through many different competing options and tie the opinions offered to underlying principles and sources of those principles (and the degrees to which each have been shown to fail) that makes someone that can be a solid policymaker.
“In fact, there is no theoretically body of knowledge that does very well with it as an anchor.”
That should be WITHOUT.
I’m not going to waste a ton of space discussing the advantages that going through a college degree program provides for you. While a 4-year degree doesn’t make you a genius, I do believe the process exposes you to a range of thought and helps develop critical thinking skills… which take more work and discipline to develop on your own.
Moreover, the act of finishing a degree is to some extent a rite of passage… outward evidence that you set a major goal and followed through on it. I know this is a sensitive subject for many. My father had to drop out one semester from graduation for financial reasons. I have many friends who didn’t complete their degrees. I myself am struggling through night school (on top of a full-time day job) to finish a law degree that I had planned on finishing 10 years ago. Things happen, I understand. If you don’t complete a degree, it doesn’t mean that you LACK character and follow-through… it just means that you need other evidence from elsewhere to show those things. A college degree doesn’t make you a better person, but it is some evidence that you have your act together more so than many.
In short, lacking a degree doesn’t necessarily HURT you… but having a degree does HELP you. It gives you some measure of built-in credibility, that other people have to make up for through other means. It’s only one factor to consider, and different people may place different weight on it… but saying that it’s completely irrelevant is in my view pandering to people’s sensitivities and resentments.
Andre,
Have you completed college? Just wondering.
Comments on this entry are closed.