Paragraph IV. Qualifications of Governor and Lieutenant Governor. No person shall be eligible for election to the office of Governor or Lieutenant Governor unless such person shall have been a citizen of the United States 15 years and a legal resident of the state six years immediately preceding the election and shall have attained the age of 30 years by the date of assuming office.
-Article V. Section I, Constitution of the State of Georgia
Bill Gates.
Ted Turner.
Michael Dell.
Karl Rove.
Casey Cagle.
Karen Handel.
Tell me. What do these six individuals have in common?
The answer is that none of them finished college.
Bill Gates, Michael Dell and Karl Rove all dropped out of college. Ted Turner was kicked out of college. Casey Cagle attended, but never finished college. And Karen Handel left home at age 17, started at the bottom of the corporate ladder and worked her way to the top.
These six individuals are all very accomplished, and the common thread they share is that none of them have college degrees.
There is a debate emerging on Political Insider and Shepherd’s Political Pie about whether a college degree should be required in order to be considered a legitimate candidate for Governor of Georgia.
Jason Shepherd, an Oxendine supporter, writes that “there are at least two candidates on the Republican side [...] applying for the State’s top job [who] are hoping that the requirements don’t include a college degree.”
While Lt. Governor Casey Cagle attended both Gainesville College and Georgia Southern University, an injury ended both his football and college career. By the age of 20 he was back home in Gainesville where he started a small tuxedo rental business. In 1994, at the age of 28, he was elected to the state senate.Karen’s resume as an executive only rivals Oxendine’s on the Republican side. She has also been very successful in her roles and has been successful at each level.
But does that experience negate the need to have a college degree?
Source: Shepherd’s Political Pie, “Chief Executive Wanted: Must Have College Degree”, January 9, 2009
My answer is yes it does.
Much like the Georgians they desire to lead, Casey Cagle and Karen Handel worked hard; they played by the rules; they had their tough times and they persevered; and they both have managed to carve out relatively successful lives for themselves. . .
. . .All without a college degree.
And I say with little hesitation that the life stories of Georgia’s first Republican Lt. Governor and Secretary of State are both very compelling and makes them both very attractive gubernatorial candidates. Their stories are the nearly identical to those of many other citizens of this state.
Constitutionally, there are only three requirements to be elected Governor of Georgia.
You must have been a U.S. citizen for a least fifteen years, a resident of Georgia for at least six years and be at least thirty years old.
That’s it.
So, are Karen Handel and Casey Cagle qualified to be governor?
Yes.
Will they be elected governor?
Well, that’s up for the people of Georgia to decide. But, I’m pretty sure that most voters will not automatically disqualify Cagle and Handel for the state’s top job simply because they don’t have a piece of paper that says they’re smart.
And anyone, Democrat or Republican, who would make a campaign issue out of that is a getting a little too uppity.
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DecaturGuy,
I’m going to be honest with you.
If it matters, then yes I did complete college.
If it doesn’t matter, then no I didn’t.
Also, as it pertains to the subject matter of this particular thread, I might add that while I have been a resident of Georgia for six years and a citizen of the United States for fifteen years, I currently am not qualified to be the governor of Georgia because I have not yet attained the age of 30.
Andre,
Looking at you picture I’d have to guess you getting ready for a suicide mission.
Dang, I messed up that post. It sould be;
Looking at your picture I’d have to guess you are getting ready for a suicide mission.
Odin,
Being able to deal with things outside of your experience comes more from your attitude toward life than what education you have. I have one of the most challenging undergraduate degrees to obtain (Chemical Engineering), but I do not credit that for instilling in me a desire to figure things out and pursue knowledge for knowledge sake. That came from wanting to learn as a child and reading everything that I got my hands on. More focus on teaching these tools in the 12 plus years that students are in out malfunctioning primary education system would go a lot further than getting people in serious debt before they have ever even started their careers.
In reality too many colleges have become degree mills, where people go to get degrees in what people previous generations considered hobbies and personal persuits. (Is it wise to be taking out student loans to bring home a degree in “The Classics” or “Political Science[sic]“?)
*insert retarded ramble about intellectual elite in high office here*
Do online degrees count? Do they have to be from a ‘big’ school or is KSU, or Trinity acceptable?
And just what about the children?
We have all seen that having a college degree does not make you smart (i.e. G.W. Bush and Sonny Perdue).
Should not having one disqualify you in the public eye? That all depends.
Experience is important, but can be made up for with intelligence and/or academic training.
Having expertise, or a degree, in certain fields, I believe, does qualify a person a bit better than another who may not have a college degree at all. For example, a person with a BA from UGA is much more qualified than a person with a JD from Regent University. At that same token, a person with a liberal arts degree from a respectable university is probably more qualified than a PhD from Miami Christian or anybody with a business degree.
I do believe that Oxendine’s education qualifies him much more than Handel. I also believe that Cagle’s experience puts him in a position that is on par (if not better) with Oxendine.
The GOP has 2 very decent candidates for Governor in 2010.
Furthermore, referring to Rick Day, it is a little much to go into the university program that a candidate gets their degree from…but that is more important than the school they attended.
An individual with say…a bachelors in Political Science from KSU ( I am assuming you are referring to Kennesaw State) is probably as qualified (or better) than many of Harvards MBAs.
The thing is, you can not teach intelligence. You can help people do better on tests and teach them new material…but there are aspects of nature in which not everybody is equal.
No college degrees might be a benefit with blue-collar voters.
In Georgia, candidates can have more degrees than a thermometer but play up that Andy Griffin, demi-shirt wearing stuff for appeal purposes. Joe Frank Harris did it to beat city-slick Bo Ginn for governor.
In the Congress, Jamie Whitten of Mississippi was a lion of the House; he actually came to Congress November 4, 1941 and was in the chamber for FDR’s infamy speech. They say Whitten use to tell a story about a state legislator in Mississippi who won office after the Civil War by saying he and his opponent were at the Siege of Vicksburg Battle. The storyteller was in the blood and mud as a foot solider and the opponent was up on the hill as a general—drinking tea from fine china in a tent. The storyteller said he wanted everyone in that tent to vote for his opponent and everyone who was a mud foot solider to vote for him. You know who won.
Cagle and Handel might play that “I had to get to work” card and win favor from working folks—Democrats and Republicans.
Sidenote: Whitten apologized for his “no” votes 60s civil rights legislation. He was a real southern gentleman—from Oxford like Faulkner.
Here’s a question…
How about a high school degree…would not having one of those be a problem for you guys?
I just cannot believe that we would classify Casey and Karen with Bill Gates or even Karl Rove. It’s takes a spectacularly special person to carve out success in this world without a college degree. I am very willing to look over their experience in this race. I have deep respect for the “self taught”. Hell, I’m one of them!
However, I’ve gotta ask: Would we even get that far if any of them were Black or Latino? Just a question. Flame away if you want.
i believe i’ve mentioned some of this before–but i remember a blogad on the side of a couple of blogs that had a picture of obama and biden and the tag line was something about wanting the “smartest mf’s in the room” and palin was castigated for being “intellectually lazy” and mocked for having merely a journalism degree from u of idaho…i’m not sure i would bring it up as an opposing candidate but i’m sure if i had them i would tout my own academic credentials as part of my bio, w/out memtioning anyone else’s lack of them–it’s probably a net plus when all is boiled down more people will view the degree favorably and lack unfavorably-that does not mean that someone w/out a degree can’t succeed but they may have a little more to prove–not just hrunning for guv–but in general in a lot of situations-it was recommended to me to put “Dr.” on my website, for what its worth…
“I have one of the most challenging undergraduate degrees to obtain (Chemical Engineering), but I do not credit that for instilling in me a desire to figure things out and pursue knowledge for knowledge sake.”
True, and I agree that an attitude toward the ability to self-teach should definitely be taught in high schools.
As for the college piece, I would think of it more as mentored practice on all that analytical work as making one want to do it all the time.
But, I guess it’s kind of the same as being successful at business. I would look at someone that ran a Fortune 500 in a much different light than someone that got to spend time on the boards due to political connections or defined “success” as being good at pushing AmWay soap.
I think that you answered my question, Andre.
Whats wrong with getting on corporate boards due to political connections? It happens very often and acts as proof that we live in a class state (not to be confused with a caste system).
I agree that self-teaching is important…but it is not something that is extremely difficult to teach adolescents. It is difficult to teach to adults for that matter. I would give a “self-taught” individual a .0001% chance at understanding The Leviathan if not given direction in an academic institution. that is not to say that we should not strive toward perfection.
This is one of those issues that strikes the social core of many of the aspects of our culture. Education is part of it…so is the job market.
For some people, like Gates and Rove, finishing college is not necessary for success. Handel just gave up and that is different. Fact is, when I was hiring for any position on a campaign or in my private sector days…if you did not list a college degree on your resume, it went in the trash.
The question about a degree being politically required for running for governor is different…because it is political. This is where Handel and Cagle diverge. Cagle is the exception rather than the rule…by that I mean that he is smart and capable without collegiate training.
For me it does and for all the people that I know,and it will definitely become an issue,because there is no way in hell a person from another race,without the right credentials ,could even think about running for this office, without a degree,and hope to win,not saying that is ever going to happened in Ga anyway,not until alot of those in my generation and those before me ,die off, let along the rest of the South,I always say the South is still trying to fight the Civil -War,talking about the South shall rise again and all that BS, when it has , only with a new agenda, To Better It,No way.No how, No Handel or Cagle,But he,{Cagle}would be better then her, I don’t like her at all,Yes John Oxendine,bring it up, bacause that is how the game is played in politics everywhere,and everyone here knows it,Call me Uppity,I don’t care,Maybe they both can go on-line , while they are trying to move in that house on West Paces Ferry.
Judging from what public education systems are teaching these days, maybe we should avoid electing people with degrees.
I honestly think this entire discussion is nearly irrelevant, especially in terms of if this is an effective campaign tactic for one campaign to use. Perhaps someone jumped the gun and equated Jason’s blog with a campaign tactic by the Ox – which would be in error.
But being that we are here, I really do not think the education thing will be so much of a problem. Handel’s biggest feat will be the rural-ites that see she is one of those “blasted ferners” from out of state, not her lack of education. Cagle is facing what should be a messy year in the legislature considering the projected state of the economy. While it is not advisable for any candidate to openly exploit Handel’s status as a non-Georgia born citizen, it will detract some voters if pushed through back channels. Cagle is naturally easier to attack.
I’m not even sure any candidate could raise the question of education with Handel as the opponent. As we saw in the Presidential race, women are hard to attack with negative ads. You spout off how she is not educated and you get slammed with “woman overcoming the odds.”
What happens if Westmoreland jumps in? He doesn’t have a college degree. I am not sure if there is an educational barrier inherent within our system. I do not think it is very far fetched for the chief executive to not be a college degree holder, after all we had a Goober Farmer Governor (although he did have degrees.)
Daniel, I said it on the Insider and I will say it here, the Oxendine campaign didn’t bring it up, Jim Galloway did then I did because I thought the debate was an interesting one to have.
You might as well say the Isakson for Senate campaign brought it up because I also plan on voting for Isakson for Senate. You can blame the John Wiles for State Senate since I also plan on voting for my incumbent state senator. I hold the same position in all of these campaigns, supporter.
Oh, and Karen’s problem is not going to be that she’s not from Georgia, her biggest hurdle will be winning over rural voters who have a hard problem voting for someone from Fulton County, especially if the Democrat nominee is from rural Georgia. This will be the first test in the Governor’s race on whether a GOP candidate from Atlanta can win.
The only times the GOP has nominated a candidate not from Atlanta were 1966, 2002 and 2006. In all of those years, the GOP candidate got the majority of the votes.
I reminded Senator Perdue of that fact when he was kicking around the idea of running for Lt. Gov. in 2001. I said to him that if we had a GOP nominee from outside Atlanta running against a Democrat from Atlanta (Barnes), then we would stand a much better chance of winning. We split the metro area and always lose in rural Georgia.
I will let the folks from outside the metro area comment more on this issue.
“I do not think it is very far fetched for the chief executive to not be a college degree holder, after all we had a Goober Farmer Governor (although he did have degrees.)”
That’s graduate of Rickover’s School of Whoop Yer Ass to you.
Or Georgia Southwestern if you want to reach back to his two-year degree. A college degree is a college degree, no?
I find it funny that we use the term “college education” which does not necessarily imply a degree but some time at a college. What then becomes the standard? Do I have part of a college education as I have one semester to graduate, or am I vested with that purely when I graduate? Do I have it after two semesters?
Shep,
You talk as if rural voters are all a bunch of redneck dupes. I wonder who they would consider to be a worse panderer, Karen (who is unpretentious) or Ox (who is majorly pretentious)?
No Bill, you have to understand that there really are two Georgias and most people who live in Atlanta don’t understand it. It’s not “redneck” versus “urban.” I wouldn’t call someone in Macon, Augusta, Savannah, Rome, etc “rednecks” or “dupes.”
There is a perception that people in Atlanta only care about Atlanta and take the rest of the state for granted. Atlanta also is the capital and many in the rest of Georgia look at Atlanta the way many in Atlanta (and the rest of Georgia) look at Washington, D.C.
There is a lot more to this state than Atlanta, but while we in Atlanta talk about ITP vs. OTP and the differences and implications those designations have just within our own city, it is similar to the clash of culture, values, pace of life, economic resource allocation, power structure, etc, between Atlanta and the rest of the state.
Also, in an election, people are going to support the candidate who they think will represent and protect their interest the most. The issues in rural Georgia are vastly different than the issues in the metro area. You think traffic congestion is the number one issue for someone in Tifton?
It’s also places like Tifton which are the make it or break it area for the GOP to win statewide. I think suggesting that rural voters won’t vote for a woman is shamefull and shows an ignorance about rural Georgia that is both unfounded and snobbish, which also feeds into the rural Georgia prejudices against Atlanta.
“You think traffic congestion is the number one issue for someone in Tifton? ”
Seems to me they’ve been working on that stretch of I-75 my entire life. I sure hope they’re proud of that extra lane.
Congestion in Atlanta will matter to Tifton if peanut trucks can’t get through to market.
But God knows please don’t let that take away from finishing the Cordele-Ashburn-Tifton mess. I want my three lanes!
Icarus, I think you are right. That area has been under construction for as long as I can remember as well, and I am fairly familiar with it because one of my brothers died in an auto accident on that Cordele-Tifton corridor about 12 years ago. I do not know if that was the same construction project, but I cannot remember a time since that it has not had orange barrels out.
This topic points out an irony that I have often considered. As noted, college drop-outs Gates, Dell, Jobs, and Walton created $billion empires through innovation. High school drop out Dave Thomas founded Wendy’s.
Then we have the case of Long Term Capital Management, which was the index case of the Financial Insanity Virus that dooms us economically. LTCM was founded by two Nobel laureates in economics and a star Wall Street Trader. These “geniuses” turned a couple of $billion in equity into something like $30 billion in direct losses, but as much as $1 trillion in derivatives losses.
FIV has infected all Ivy League business schools and their grads have destroyed the world financial system.
For me the conclusion is that common sense, drive, and determination trump a Harvard MBA soundly. The market for the later should be greatly decimated because of what these idiots have wrought.
Sadly, it would be quite improbable, in most cases impossible, for those great entrepreneurs to be hired for any management position in the companies that they founded, given their ‘dearth of credentials.’
“This topic points out an irony that I have often considered. As noted, college drop-outs Gates, Dell, Jobs, and Walton created $billion empires through innovation. High school drop out Dave Thomas founded Wendy’s.
Then we have the case of Long Term Capital Management, which was the index case of the Financial Insanity Virus that dooms us economically. LTCM was founded by two Nobel laureates in economics and a star Wall Street Trader. These “geniuses” turned a couple of $billion in equity into something like $30 billion in direct losses, but as much as $1 trillion in derivatives losses. ”
Or you could do a better comparison and look at the number of successful college graduates vs. the number of successful dropouts.
Yeah, but I sure miss those old skin billboards on 75. I’d bet most of those in the pictures on those boards didn’t go to college.
rugby,
I read somewhere that dropouts of certain PhD programs actually have higher salaries than the people who have actually obtained their advanced degree. Success is at best an imperfect measure, since to some people it may mean being at the reins of a 20,000 employee fortune 500 companies, while to others it might mean owning a corner store in a small town or spending most of their time with family.
As much “experience” as a CEO or a long time politician might have in management or politics, they are usually very thin on experience in living as a normal citizen. Being driven around in a limousine, having your groceries bought by a housekeeper, your children’s watched by a nanny or sent away to boarding school, having your notes written by an aid, and everyone around you calling you sir around the clock, every day, looking to fulfill your every whim is not exactly conducive to living in reality. I think I would rather have the small shop owner.
Rugby,
The damage done by Harvard MBA’s to each and every one of us is incalculable.
We should be so lucky that they be relegated to operating simple equipment instead of “financial engineering.”
Most Phd’s are idiots.
These corrupt manipulators will soon redefine “success” to encompass folks who were smarter than to fall for their “brilliant” machinations that caused the Greater Depression.
you are so right doug–and don’t get me started on nannies and their sick grandmother’s in guatemala and there “immigration issues” and not being able to drive on main roads, and just how does a 2 year old fall out of a boster seat and break his nose while he is “being watched” anyway!!! but the little one is too young for boarding school…
One thing is for certain is leadership generally can’t be taught in a classroom.
grift – try driving that mess in Cordele twice a day as part of your daily 200 mile roundtrip to work and back home. TRUST me, it wasn’t pleasant.
“I read somewhere that dropouts of certain PhD programs actually have higher salaries than the people who have actually obtained their advanced degree”
Most likely because a PhD gears you almost exclusively toward academia only and there is not much money to be had writing about Bronte or Heidegger.
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