1. umustbekidding says:

    Glad to see he woke up for this one.

    I do wish he would have said 50% of Americans don’t pay income taxes. I am sick of Obama saying he will give tax cuts to 95% when we know this is wealth redistribution.

  2. ramblinwreck says:

    I’m not watching but I’ll bet there are a couple of things that will probably not come up in the “debate”.

    Neither candidate will talk about more individual liberty and personal responsibility.

    Neither will talk about cutting spending, unless Obama reiterates his plan to unilaterally disarm us by doing away with much of our nuclear capability and shrinking the military to Clinton-like levels.

    Neither will talk about shrinking the size of governments.

    Neither will talk about insisting that the federal government operate within the constraints of Article I Section 8 of the constitution.

    I’m sure someone will point out my error if I end up being wrong.

    I don’t watch these shows because seeing these two guys “debate” is like having a sheep listen to two wolves argue about which one of them is going to operate in his interest. They’re both liberals. It’s only a matter of degree.

  3. I didn’t get to watch either. I’m hoping someone will give an overview of the highlights.

    ramblinwreck , I like what you said about the sheep and two wolves. I agree.

    I don’t know if I’m going to vote Republican or Constitution Party this year. I can’t tell the Rep from Dem any more.

  4. ramblinwreck says:

    Sharks, that’s because the difference is so small. The Constitution party unfortunately has less chance of winning than the libertarians. I’m convinced that if Jefferson or Madison were to reappear and run for president they’d be hooted down and called kooks for their radical views. Look what happened to Ron Paul. He was the ONLY candidate who was warning about the pending fiscal/monetary crisis and he was dismissed out of hand. He’s looking downright brilliant at this point.

  5. atlantaman says:

    I’d say calling Obama “Senator Government” is one of the most hilarious Freudian slips I’ve heard in a while.

  6. albert says:

    Now we know what a Community Organizer is. ACORN

    What a freakin low life. I’m amazed we have gotten to this point in the United States.

  7. Bill Simon says:

    Rather than assail Obama for voting only “present” in the Illinois state senate, he should have asked him point-blank why he didn’t vote yea or nay on these bills he voted against in the state senate judiciary hearings?

  8. btpull says:


    I did a brower search against Obama’s website the other night. The phrase “Personal Responsibility” was not mentioned once. I did not take the time to search McCain’s site, but I bet the phrase is rarely if at all, used.

  9. Bill Simon says:


    Unlike you, I actually hear more when things are strictly on audio….so, I didn’t “see” the blinking of McCain’s eyes.

    As far as I know…blinking one’s eyes is not a sign of lying…it is, however, a sign of the physiological need to moisturize one’s eyes.

    But…I know YOU, Vic. You’re the kinda guy who would NEVER judge someone based on their health differences…or looks…or anything they are born with, are you?

    (Stupid-ass moron.)

  10. debbie0040 says:


    Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan ‘Infuriates Me’

    Share October 16, 2008 2:46 AM

    ABC News’ Teddy Davis Reports:

    John McCain may have found a blue-collar face to help him argue that no American — not even the richest 5 percent — should pay higher taxes.

    “Joe The Plumber” has weighed in on Wednesday’s presidential debate and he says that Barack Obama’s tax plan “infuriates me.”

    “To be honest with you, that infuriates me,” plumber Joe Wurzelbacher told Nightline’s Terry Moran. “It’s not right for someone to decide you made too much—that you’ve done too good and now we’re going to take some of it back.”

    “That’s just completely wrong,” he added.

    Wurzelbacher, who says no one from the McCain campaign got in touch with him before Wednesday, was a centerpiece of the third and final presidential debate.

    The plumber’s brush with fame began on Sunday when he confronted Barack Obama outside of Toledo, Ohio. Wurzelbacher challenged the Democratic candidate on his plan to raise taxes on the top five percent of earners — a policy which would, by the Obama campaign’s own estimation, mean higher taxes for 184,000 small businesses.

    “I’m getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year,” Wurzelbacher told Obama. “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?”

    Under Obama’s plan, individuals making more than $200,000 per year, or couples making more than $250,000 per year, would pay higher taxes on income, capital gains, and dividends. Starting ten years from now, Obama supports an additional 2-4 percent tax on individual income above $250,000 per year to help shore up the Social Security system.

    To evaluate how Wurzelbacher and his wife would fare under Obama, one would need to know his wife’s income (if any) plus what the plumber meant when he told Obama that the company he is getting ready to buy “makes” $250,000 – $280,000 per year.

    Was Wurzelbacher referring to gross revenue or net profits?

    Obama’s higher taxes on small businesses would be leveled against those whose net profits exceed $250,000 per year, according to Obama’s campaign.

    While at least 184,000 small businesses would face higher taxes under Obama, the Illinois Democrat is also proposing a series of tax credits that could aid small businesses.

    Obama has proposed a $3,000 tax credit for every new job that companies create in the United States over the next two years, a small business health tax credit on up to 50 percent of employee premiums paid by employers, and elimination of capital gains taxes on investments in small and start-up businesses.

    Regardless of how Wurzelbacher would personally fare under the candidates’ plans, he suggested to ABC News’ Nightline that he is against all forms of progressive taxation.

    During his telephone interview with ABC News, the Ohio plumber argued that the government should not tax some more than others and argued that this principle should extend not only to Americans at his income-level but also to the world’s richest man.

    “I don’t like it,” said Wurzelbacher. “You know, me or — you know, Bill Gates, I don’t care who you are. If you worked for it, if it was your idea, and you implemented it, it’s not right for someone to decide you made too much.”

  11. Chris says:

    McCain & Obama did talk about cutting spending. McCain brought up a 10% across the board spending cut (which adjusted for Bushflation will be about a 4% spending increase), while Obama wanted to use a scalpel to only go after “the programs that aren’t needed or don’t work”

    Best line of the Debate was when McCain said “Senator, I’m not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush, you should have run four years ago”

    I’m writing in “Joe the Plumber”

  12. My kin folks call me Nick says:

    Sadly, there was not a lot of new ground here.

    McCain spent a lot of time talking about Obama and his plans and not enought time talking directly to the people.

    All in all if/when McCain loses you have to look at the campaign he ran.

  13. Bucky Plyler says:

    Check out what Joe the plumber said about O’bama’s tax plans today. It’s in the online version of the AJC.

  14. jsm says:

    “…while Obama came out as authentic.”

    Yes, an authentic novice who is a friend to terrorists and others who hate this country, an authentic socialist who thinks the money people earn should be taken from them and given to those “behind” them, and an authentic fraud who knows he won’t be giving real tax cuts to 95% of Americans.

    Anybody who believes this guy and thinks he will help America is a retard.

  15. My kin folks call me Nick says:

    One other interesting note. Last night for the first time I heard the talking heads speak about a mandate. If Sen. Obama wins in a huge land slide (not likely) then he may have a mandate to tackle big issues first and not attempt to work with the other party.

    Now, I don’t think this will happen, but if it does then Pres. Obama and the democratic congress will be responsible for the success or failure of those plans. I don’t think anything soley crafted by one party is a good idea and for the nation and will likely have to be reformed later.

    The point being, if this plays out this way over the next couple of years, maybe the country will be ready again for real leadership from conservatives. I don’t mean the RHINO’s we have now, but a true rebirth.

  16. Doug Deal says:


    Until the GOP drops the abortion first, socialist second platform it has been operating on since 2000, it will never go anywhere, and deservedly so.

    Abortion has no place being used as a litmus test for Federal office, since it has nothing to do with the Federal role in government. This is about the only thing the GOP seems to care about in the primaries, and it may work in the S.E., but the fact that all the candidates in the S.E. are evaluated solely by this metric makes people in other states turn Republicans out in droves.

    This party used to be about small government. Somehow it has become the party of big government, for Jesus.

  17. jsm says:

    No thanks, Wavy. I don’t need to borrow yours.

    Obama’s 95% Illusion
    “Here’s the political catch. All but the clean car credit would be ‘refundable,’ which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer — a federal check — from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this ‘welfare,’ or in George McGovern’s 1972 campaign a ‘Demogrant.’ Mr. Obama’s genius is to call it a tax cut.

    “The Tax Foundation estimates that under the Obama plan 63 million Americans, or 44% of all tax filers, would have no income tax liability and most of those would get a check from the IRS each year. The Heritage Foundation’s Center for Data Analysis estimates that by 2011, under the Obama plan, an additional 10 million filers would pay zero taxes while cashing checks from the IRS.”

  18. Wavy says:

    JSM, fact check an article before you cite it:


    Otherwise, just post your spam emails on here. Conservatives are just a sponge for any kind of bullsh*t their pundits send their way. No doubters, critics, all blind followers. Be a skeptic JSM, however, it requires a three digit IQ and I suspect you don’t meet that criteria.

  19. Bill Simon says:


    Seriously, you really are a dumbAss. Did the other Dems kick you out of their debating circle jerk and that’s how you found your way to this blog?

  20. jsm says:

    Okay, Wavy. WSJ is all wrong, and Economists for Obama have it all right. What were you saying about “bullsh*t?”

    Keep throwing the meaningless insults, since you have no argument to make.

  21. Wavy says:

    I’m a dumbass because I’ve successfully refuted all of your (collective) distortions?

    If you can’t handle a healthy political debate with someone of above average intelligence, then I think you picked the right political party.

    I’m a skeptic and I thoroughly enjoy debunking conservative BS, there’s liberal BS too, but no where near as much. The very success of the GOP after this train wreck of a two-termed presidency and the disastrous nomination of Palin has to be particularly deceptive. It seems conservatives are in love with logical fallacies. I’m here to help you create arguments that actually have either: some basis in fact, or free of said logical fallacies. http://www.theskepticsguide.org/

  22. jsm says:

    You haven’t refuted one thing I said, Wavy! And you want to act like you’re so intelligent? Are you kidding? Why don’t you first reference an un-biased source before you start claiming you’ve refuted anything.

  23. Bill Simon says:


    A “skeptic” would have a more diligent approach to their arguments, and not rely on slanted “blogs” for your facts.

    You’re a poor excuse for a “skeptic.”

  24. I know I’m an odd lot, but am I the only one to find it odd that the national press and the Obama campaign has dumped on the plumber? I’ve heard 3 different news stories discrediting this guy. This seems a bit desperate to me.

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