79 comments

  1. GreenAllTheWay says:

    Let’s all be smarter and go green! Stop buying that fish wrapper the AJC and save the planet..and some trees!

  2. Andre Walker says:

    Now that her moment in Hollywood’s bright lights is over and done with, can we get Kathy Cox to answer this simple question…

    …With students of all grade levels struggling in Georgia, when is Kathy Cox going to enact policies that reduce our class sizes, expand pre-kindergarten, and support the parents and the teachers who are working so hard to improve our public schools?

  3. GreenAllTheWay says:

    Well, she just spent an hour on national TV promoting eduction, Georgia and public education, won $1,000,000 to be donated to underfunded public schools….maybe the questios is Mr Walker, what are you doing?

  4. GreenAllTheWay says:

    Andre, Kathy Cox just spent an hour on national TV promoting public education, and won $1,000,000 to be donated to underfunded public schools. What have you ever done?

  5. Bill Simon says:

    How do we actually know she is “smarter” than a 5th grader?

    The $1 million question was a 5th grade question…and no other 5th grader on that show was allowed to answer the question. Answering it correctly does not make one “smarter” than a 5th grader, but it makes one as smart as a 5th grader.

    Logic is SO lost on UGA grads. Why is that, Icarus?

  6. atlantaman says:

    “when is Kathy Cox going to enact policies that reduce our class sizes, expand pre-kindergarten”

    How is she supposed to do this – are you planning on paying for it Andre?

  7. GreenAllTheWay says:

    Well Bill, Kathy just spent one hour on national TV promoting public education in Georgia. If a 30 second spot cost $100,000 for national coverage, that is quite an accomplishment since she got it for FREE..and she got Fox to give the State $1,000,000 on top of that….wonder how many 5th Graders could figure that out? Oh wait, let wait and see the AJC’s…they probably won’t.

  8. GreenAllTheWay says:

    So she was soley responsible for the math 123 and teaching all those that failed? Come on John, your are smarter than that…..What have you ever done to fix those issues beside hiding behind a computer blog. She just gave the tax payers of Georgia one hour of free national advertising on Public Education and $1,000,000…you mad becuase she succeeded or becuase she is a woman, or both?

  9. Bill Simon says:

    Green,

    You gotta start admitting that after 14 years of Republican “ownership” of the state school superintendent’s office, SOMEONE is responsible for the absolute shi**y performance.

    As far as “free national advertising,” it would be one thing if what was being advertised was something that would make people “buy” Georgia.

    Being in the bottom 10% of education performance in the United States does not make for a strong product for someone to buy, “free advertising” or not.

  10. RuralDem says:

    I’m not sure I get this free advertising argument. What, because we’re one of the lowest ranked states, Kathy Cox winning 1 million dollars is going to make people flock to Georgia?

    Come on.

    Some of the defenses on here have become hilarious.

    I seriously question if the campaigns are getting interns to hop on here and post “pro” comments.

    That’s the only plausible explanation. Normal people cannot be this crazy.

  11. GreenAllTheWay says:

    Well John, what would you do with the 1000’s of morons that TEACH in Georgia? Oh, we could hold TEACHERS and SCHOOL SYSTEMS accountable. BUT WAIT, they have the UNION, we can’t…so we have schools full of teachers that can’t add or complete a correct sentence, and you believe ONE person is Atlanta or ONE person in Washington will fix everything? Come on, you are smarter than that!

  12. John Konop says:

    GreenAllTheWay

    Kathy Cox ran on the fact that she was one of the teachers you are ripping. Also any good manager knows implementation is more important than the idea.

  13. odinseye2k says:

    On the up side, this was a pretty creative way to raise funds for the schools that benefitted from the appearance.

    I could imagine the negotiations (if she wanted to take this tact):

    “I went out and raised a million dollars single-handedly for Georgia schools … what the hell did you do?”

  14. GreenAllTheWay says:

    Tenure: What are the benefits for the children?

    By Dr. Holly Robinson, Ed.D.

    In July 2000, Georgia became the first state to eliminate automatic tenure for new teachers. Teachers already holding tenure were not affected. According to the legislation, the purpose behind the new limitations on tenure was to ensure that employment decisions are based primarily on performance and that every child has a quality teacher in the classroom.

    Tenure is a form of job security for teachers who have completed a probationary period, usually three years of successful classroom teaching. Historically, tenure was established to protect academic freedom and to prevent schools from basing decisions to hire and fire on favoritism or local politics.

    As we change the terms of our national discussion about teachers and education, tenure must be addressed. State and federal accountability policies are requiring higher levels of student achievement. School accountability and tenure directly conflict in a system where teachers are assigned not on the basis of their effectiveness and student achievement but often on seniority and tenure status.

    It’s important to note that tenure and “fair dismissal” are not synonymous. Unfortunately, fair dismissal becomes de facto tenure because it is time consuming, expensive and difficult to terminate an ineffective teacher. It should be possible to remove inadequate and ineffective teachers from the classroom at a reasonable cost and within a reasonable period of time.

    Supporters of tenure argue that the Georgia Fair Dismissal Act, passed in 1975, protected teachers from being fired for reasons unrelated to their performance. However, the Education Leaders Council’s Lisa Graham Keegan disagrees. She has stated, “I don’t think the way to develop a more professional teaching corps is to protect teachers who aren’t doing their jobs in the first place.”

    The Fair Dismissal Law specified the teacher had to be proven to be incompetent, insubordinate or immoral. As a result, dismissal was an unpalatable sanction for bad teaching and was used most often in cases of criminal conduct or negligence. Removing a teacher for instructional failure was both difficult and rare.

    Parents, many of whom work in the private sector and can receive two-weeks notice for termination, do not understand the complexity of teacher dismissals. Parents understand the importance of good teaching and the long-term significant impact on their children of bad teaching; what they fail to understand is why those with a reputation for bad teaching are still in the school.

    Student learning is the purpose of schools. Research clearly shows that no other variable is more important to student success than teacher quality. Yes . . . most public school teachers are doing a fine job, but there are some that do not belong in the classroom. If an ineffective teacher gets into the classroom and receives tenure after three years, it is nearly impossible to replace them for all the reasons stated: time, money and paperwork. Unfortunately, many of these teachers are simply transferred to another school.

    Tenure has not served the public education system, parents or students well. It does not encourage or support great teachers. Pay and promotion are based on seniority and additional education course credits, rather than linked to student learning. Tenure is also at odds with professionalism, as it tends to discourage productivity, professional development and accountability.

    Schools exist for the sake of our children. Good teachers do not need tenure.

  15. Howard Roark says:

    GreenAllTheWay

    A teacher with tenure can be fired. There are no teacher unions in Georgia. Georgia is a right to work state. The largest teacher group in the state is the Profession Association of Georgia Educators (PAGE) which in it bylaws states that they will never support collective bargaining.

  16. tb says:

    Education in Georgia is Abyssmal. Parents are no longer wanting excuses. And Parents will go to wherever they need to stop the do-nothings from doing-nothing. We must do better for the educators too.. Many of the districts can’t keep good teachers and only keep the bad. Why that is I don’t know.

    There will be others that will lose accreditation or at the very least be sanctioned in some way through their accreditation boards. Going to the government has not worked. Local control has not worked. No more excuses. We need school choice and Sanctions on the do-nothings

    Read my blog:

    http://www.macon.com/personas/?insiteUserId=3b6ab1cdbbd0e808f3b153e2864c7f9d-19494&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=3b6ab1cdbbd0e808f3b153e2864c7f9d-19494&plckPostId=Blog%3a3b6ab1cdbbd0e808f3b153e2864c7f9d-19494Post%3a98706033-e9e3-4a15-a4c0-0a3880d18283&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

  17. RuralDem says:

    With the three schools’ names being released, I just hope Sonny doesn’t decide to somehow take away any of their funding.

    I can easily see him removing some of their funding since they’re getting money from the show, and then he can apply the funds he cut to “Go Fish Georgia!” or some other tourism plan.

  18. tb says:

    I see she donated the money to 3 special needs schools. Much ado about nothing from political rivals.. what else is new.

  19. John Konop says:

    tb

    A very interesting article and worthy of a real debate among all involved.

    I will say I am dyslexic and managed my way through college without much help. Do not get me wrong I grateful they can diagnose it now and treat the problem today. The bottom line schools must have the right environment and opportunity for students yet at the end it up to the kid. Also behavioral problem students, special ED, and students with very little English skills should not be held against the teachers. We all must be realistic about expectations. Teachers are not the parents!

    And the social ills inherited today cannot be solved by teachers. And I find it obnoxious that many like GreenAllTheWay will blame teachers yet not hold any accountability to Kathy Cox

  20. tb says:

    Schools often do not recognize dyslexia still to this day, or autism or a myriad of other learning disorders.. and forget about getting help. I would love to introduce you to some parents that I know who have children with these disorders, they’ll tell you a thing or two.

  21. GreenAllTheWay says:

    I fine moons like John pittiful…make up lier and present it is fact. John, deterine the facts before you make a statement. He must be a tenured teacher.

  22. tb says:

    Hey, we have a great blog thread going on here, come on!

    John, before you consider running at any time for superintendent, please sit in an over-crowded classroom that has been approved through clasrrom size waivers.

    Then, go to several tribunal panels. ‘kangaroo courts’

    Sit in an IEP meeting. and Bone up on IDEA

    Speak with special education educators who have been removed for standing up for children.

    Attend school board meetings when they announce the changes in staff, you’ll see why good teachers can’t reasonably stay in Georgia.

    speak to parents who have had their children who have been paddled or hit and their children have autism.

    There was a hearing on SB 461 this spring, which was a piece of bully prevention legislation. Do you realize how many people were there and told their stories? Many.

    And ask the Missus, how much training she received. Examine the records of the ‘highly qualified’.

    And as far as I am concerned, professional standards of educators are not being adhered to either. Please learn educator ethics rules and regulations.

    But I digress.

  23. Bill Simon says:

    Howard,

    You asked this: “Bill I am just wondering how Georgia’s bottom 10% performance rating you just stated was measured?”

    I have never seen a published rank that Georgia’s average SAT performance has ever been less than 46th in the country.

    AND, don’t give me this argument that Senator Eric Johnson likes to claim in defense of having consistently crappy average SAT scores like “well, if we only included those folks who actually went to college, the scores would be much better.” That’s a crock of crap.

  24. John Konop says:

    Tb

    I have no plans on running for office. I have only built up a following via being outspoken about what a bad idea math 123 would be before it was implemented. I would be happy to sit in your classroom and learn or talk to you about your ideas. I do respect and thank you for being a teacher.

    Please email at [email protected].

    This was one of the many articles I blasted that got around pre-implementation of math 123.

    Sonny Perdue Must Stop Kathy Cox

    http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/sonny-perdue-must-stop-kathy-cox

  25. GreenAllTheWay says:

    I do not work for Kathy Cox as you have claimed. I amd not a lobbiest as you have claimed. I do not support Kathy Cox as you claim. I have never spoken to Kathy Cox. I have never talked to Kathy Cox. The truth hurts John, I know. Maybe you and your twisting of facts to suit your needs would make you a good politican afterall.

  26. Three Jack says:

    konop, are you saying that you opposed math123 prior to its implementation – “being outspoken about what a bad idea math 123 would be before it was implemented. “?

    i followed your link to find this opening statement about the issue – “Georgia’s State Superintendent of Schools, Kathy Cox, has imposed a dramatically different high school math curriculum without properly reviewing it with teachers and parents.”

    if she imposed it, how were you out front in opposition?

    and if she didn’t let teachers and parents review it prior to imposition, how did you know it was under consideration?

  27. GreenAllTheWay says:

    He was before it before he was against it, like Kerry and the war and Palin and the bridge to know where. I really think John has great potential in being a politician.

  28. John Konop says:

    This was the first article I wrote about the topic.

    Georgia School Czar Flunks Math

    http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/georgia-school-czar-flunks-math

    What happen was Kathy Cox rolled it out in few classes before full implementation. She than covered up the issues and gave a presentation to many school districts with many misrepresentations.

    I only found out about the issue because when my oldest son was in 7th grade he was taking algebra 1 and tracking toward the joint enrollment gifted math program in Cherokee county which was ranked 11th in the nation.

    Kathy Cox wanted to not give any 7th graders credit for algebra 1. Also she mandated gifted kids repeat the work with her failed math 123 program which was thrown out of New York instead of the national ranked program they were in.

    I than led a protest against her irrational idea and under pressure she granted waivers to all the gifted student in math and they all were able to stay on the successful math program. This class is now freshmen and Kathy Cox is still fighting her most successful program in the state with her failed math 123 program.

    I than started talking to many people involved with this issue state wide and they were upset that they did not know about the joint enrollment gifted math program being used in Cherokee, Cobb and North Fulton. And many parents and officials were even more upset when Kathy Cox lied to parents and told them that our gifted students were behind in math without disclosing she was using state wide numbers and covering up the success in Cherokee, Cobb and North Fulton.

    This is when I did research and came up with the idea of expanding for vocational students. And also letting the vocational schools come up with requirements based on certificate or degree program. And also maintain the current math system used in Universities so are students track correctly for eligibility.

  29. GreenAllTheWay says:

    LOL…this is a perfect response to prove my point. Blog after blog after blog this guy attackes someone trying to do something, attaching her, probably becuase she is female. Everything she does, this guy attackes. BUT just one person challenge him, and al of a sudden you are spewing hate…typical liberal know it all.

  30. tb says:

    Green, I don’t know what your beef is with Konop, but I think his ideas are worth listening to. We cannot have ANY leadership being disengenuous to citizens.

  31. GreenAllTheWay says:

    But when fact are presented and he refuses to even consder them, what are you listening to tb? If you challenge him, you “must work for or support” ….if you tell him a fact, he refuses to even acknowledge it. I agree…forums to express ideas are great! But look at this one. The entire purpose was to mock someone tht actually did something that had positive value…yet any defense of that is cut down, becuase it does not fall in line with what his purpose is…and that is to run for office. He even said so in the other forum,,and gave out his e-mail address….

  32. Bill Simon says:

    I’m going to speak-up to defend John Konop on this school stuff issue, and especially Kathy Cox’s FUBAR math curriculum.

    Konop nailed the crappiness of the Math 123 program in detail sometime in the past and sent out a big newsletter issue on his ControlCongress.com site.

    Three Jack and Green would be wise to just sit down and shut up on this issue. Cox is a bona fide moron and a worthless superintendent, and Konop nailed her on her idiotic math programs. You two don’t know Jack or Sh*t about things except for the ridiculous worship of an idiot like Kathy “Evolution is a Buzz Word” Cox.

  33. GreenAllTheWay says:

    And again, another blogger that states assumptions as fact, No onehas stated they are supporting Kathy Cox and Math 123. But again, say anything but these guys think is right and you are attacked. This is a joke! These guys are here to promote themselves not look for truth or find a solution….”Cox is a bona fide moron and a worthless superintendent, and Konop nailed her on her idiotic math programs. You two don’t know Jack or Sh*t about things except for the ridiculous worship of an idiot like Kathy “Evolution is a Buzz Word” Cox.” Wow…I hope people do not really believ anything thse two type in here.

  34. Bill Simon says:

    Oh yeah. And, YOU haven’t “attacked” anyone, have you, Green? You’re just an innocent litle flower.

    Next thing you know you’ll be calling the National Organization of Women to come help support you and file a lawsuit against PeachPundit.com because we haven’t bowed down for a princess like you think you are.

  35. John Konop says:

    GreenAllTheWay

    Please without being emotional tell us why you agree or do not agree with the policy change I proposed. Instead of attacking everyone please tell us do you support math 123 why or why not? And finally do you support Kathy Cox why or why not? And via my policy suggestions or issues I brought up about math 123 please tell us what I said that you think is not truthful?

  36. John Konop says:

    GreenAllTheWay

    For an example you can look at the debate TB and I had on corporal punishment in Georgia Public Schools on this thread. We never got personal only exchange ideas and facts. I was grateful for the information provided by TB. It is not about who is right it is about what is right! Too many on both parties have forgot that it is America first way above any party affiliation.

  37. tb says:

    Green
    I have to commend people that stand up for what they believe in for education. I, too, also stood up to my school board in my district for stupidity along with a group of concerned citizens to try to set things right. This type of dialogue is useless and solves nothing.

  38. bowersville says:

    Howard & Bill, I’m with you on EJ bro.

    And there are plenty more lining up.

    Green, Konop AIN”T NO LIBERAL.

  39. tb says:

    Apparently someone else thinks that corporal punishment in schools is not a good idea:

    http://mrhirsh.com/2008/07/21/a-real-educational-breakthrough.aspx

    I have never been much of a spanker and feel spanking should be done at home, if at all. And I have always taught my kids that if someone (anyone) touches them in an innappropriate way or hurts them, they are to tell me. Wonder what child protective services would say about this policy….hmmmm something to think about.

  40. Three Jack says:

    konop, so your ‘concept’ is nothing more than a very small component of casey cagle’s overall charter/vocational program implemented last session.

    did you advise cagle or did he just push the program without giving you credit.

    and bill, before going on the attack, might i suggest you review previous posts by me about kathy with a k. i have been outspoken against her for quite some time and will continue doing so even though she did prove she is smarter than a 5th grader. i will be against any and all state super’s who continue to promote government as the answer to education in georgia.

  41. Tinkerhell says:

    great. KC made a million. wahoo.
    ….

    While I’m sure that will be of help to a few classrooms – new computers and such I’m sure – overall the $ and the air time don’t really mean much to the state and it’s not what I’m looking for in a State Sup. If everything was going great in the state and in her “downtime” she did this and plugged Ga for being the in the top 10 schools in the nation and spouted some “you viewers should move to Ga for our fantastic academic advantages” kind of national media attention – that would be great, super reason to vote her in again. But we are at the wrong end of that spectrum and I don’t get much of anything out of this. *blah*

    Greenie sounds about like a BoyReporter clone…. :/

  42. John Konop says:

    Three Jack

    The devil is in the detail. The math 123 works against what Casey was trying to achieve. Do you understand the issue? If not you can read this thread “Kathy Cox’s big showbiz break “to educate yourself on the problem.

  43. Three Jack says:

    konop, i am quite aware of the problem. it begins and ends with government being involved in education.

    what does your ‘plan/concept’ do to start the process of getting government out of the education business?

    best i can tell, absolutely nothing. in fact, from what i read, your ‘plan/concept’ expands government’s role, especially at the local level where corruption, excessive spending and lack of oversight is the worst.

  44. John Konop says:

    Three Jack

    I will help you understand the concept. We should let the vocational colleges and universities dictate the requirements needed for students to attend and graduate not Kathy Cox.

    We than let students joint enroll, now vocational based students can have training and certificates for higher paying jobs than only a high school degree. In most cases you would find many of the current requirements would go away and the students could focus on their talents.

    University bound students could also follow the system at the college instead of Kathy Cox’s program that tracks to nothing at the college.

    This would increase the success rate and lower the cost of education. The downside via Kathy Cox is that vocational based students will not be required to take classes tracking toward algebra 2, foreign language……. Kathy thinks all students must track toward college bound classes or fail.

  45. John Konop says:

    Three Jack

    One more concept, vocational schools must meet graduation and job placement requirements or they are eligible for student loans or grants under our current system. That forces the vocational school to make sure they are not a degree factory not meeting the needs of students and the business community. By using joint enrollment do you understand that puts real accountability in the system?

  46. Three Jack says:

    konop, thanks for the explanation. now who regulates all of this? who appropriates funding for this concept? where does the funding come from? government, government, government.

    another thought comes to mind. you complain about your high iq son being punished by math123. you also purport to be a highly successful businessman. why do you punish your son by forcing him to attend the very government schools you abhor when you apparently have the means to exercise school choice?

  47. John Konop says:

    Three Jack

    The regulation is already in place via joint enrolment requirements today. The only difference is the academic requirements would de dictated by experts instead of Kathy Cox.

    My son was in a private school. We took him out because of the national ranked math program starting in junior high for gifted math students in Cherokee. My wife and I also think it is healthy for my son to meet and work with students from all economic situations. Had not the waivers been granted for my son’s class we would have put him back into private schools.

    I also agree with the father of the free market economic system (Adam Smith) that public education is very important. I think public, private, charter and home schools should work together to meet the needs of the community not against each other.

  48. Three Jack says:

    konop, we have a fundamental disagreement that will not be swayed – i want government out of education as soon as feasibly possible.

    you on the other hand believe government provides the solution despite decades of data proving otherwise.

    “public” education may be fine, it is government education that dumbs down our children.

  49. Three Jack says:

    as obama might say, that is above my pay grade.

    but i do believe the foundation must be based upon a free market, union-free competition among schools rather than the current union first, students when we f’n get around to it disaster.

    here’s a look into america’s future if enough people with the resources get tired of funding this abomination known as ‘public education’ – the epitome of a failed socialistic experiment ever inflicted on a free country:

    Role of Private Schools in Basic Education
    De, A., M. Majumdar, M. Samson, and C. Noronha (2000)
    National Institute of Education Planning and Administration and Ministry of Human Resource Development, Government of India: Year 2000 Assessment: Education for All.

    This paper reviews recent trends in primary education, closely examining the rapid growth in the role of private education. Schools in India come in three basic forms – Government schools, Private Aided (PA) schools (almost fully government financed but privately managed), and Private Unaided (PUA) schools. A very large increase in the number of and enrollment in PUA schools at the primary school level has been noted in recent years. This is in stark contrast to earlier trends, where PUA schools were important only at the secondary education level. A deterioration of the “public” school system (including a decline in the quality of PA schools, which tend to be very similar in most respects to government schools) has caused PUA schools to emerge even in areas that already had government of PA schools. Citing a number of recent case studies, the authors find that in a vast majority of States (with the notable exception of Himachal Pradesh), there is a deep and widespread dissatisfaction with government and PA schools. Despite the growth of the PUA sector, this report notes that enrollment in government schools, particularly in rural areas, has not changed significantly; this rules out the possibility that PUA schools are supplanting the public sector. Instead, the paper finds that enrollment in PUA schools – which tend to be very expensive relative to other types of schools – is largely confined to higher income groups. There are also, however, found to be enormous variations in PUA fees, which enables some poor households to send at least one of their children to such schools. After reviewing a number of aspects of school quality and finances, the paper concludes that much more research is needed to determine whether, in fact, PUA schools are, on net, more cost effective, operationally efficient, or qualitatively better than the public sector schools.

  50. Three Jack says:

    what public education? it is government education konop.

    if it were public education, competition and choice would be the key components instead of unions and bloated bureaucracy.

  51. John Konop says:

    Three jack

    I actually support vouchers. Also do you not support Hope scholarship, government backed student loans, GI grants….? A major reason for regulation on vocational schools via graduation and jobs is to qualify for the loans and scholarships. This off-set the risk of lenders and tax payers. In the private market student loan business finding institution to buy poor performing vocational schools is difficult at best.

    Not all regulation is bad. This is what I was warning you and others years ago about Fannie/FreddieMac. If tax payers back the loans we should have high regulation like a SBA loan. If the private market backs the loan than we should have no regulations only full discloser. When you repeat talking points like deregulation you should understand the facts.

    Bottom line you supported and campaigned for a loan system that tax payers were on the hook with no over sight. Why do you think the above system you supported was conservative or rational?

  52. Three Jack says:

    only you konop could go from a decent discussion about education to blaming me for the fannie mae situation. wtf are you smoking?

    vouchers – who controls the money? government. why do you always look to government for solutions konop?

    and since you are so good at predicting the future with constant reminders in every thread, please oh great konop, tell us who will win the election, when the housing market will turn around and any other savvy prognostication you wish to announce. we’re not worthy!

  53. John Konop says:

    Three Jack

    Three Jack

    I am sorry you do not understand the concept of the extension of credit and regulations.

    As far as the housing market it will get worse before it gets better. You still have to flush out a lot of the interest only step latter loans with low equity I warned about in the past.

    As to the timing it will be a year or two after the final flush out of the loans. I would guess that is about 3 to 5 years.

    As far the election I said it will be a close toss up before both convention and I stick with my prediction.

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