He/She/It is mad as heck and he/she/it isn’t going to take it…anymore!

Wow.

A former state employee living as a transgender woman on Friday filed a federal discrimination lawsuit against leading Georgia lawmakers and the supervisor who fired her. Vandiver Elizabeth Glenn, a former employee in the General Assembly Office of Legislative Counsel, was fired after she told supervisors she no would no longer come to work as a man.

[UPDATE 21 JULY 2008] Here’s the press release from Lambda Legal concerning the lawsuit. Evidently, Mr./Mrs. Glenn suffers from Gender Identity Disorder (GID).

42 comments

  1. atlantaman says:

    Perhaps a campaign issue, along with the anti-Richardson vote, the Democrats can embrace in their strategy to defeat the GOP in November.

  2. drjay says:

    hey this is like the drew carey episode where his cross dressing brother got a job in cosmetics w/ kate and when drew’s boss found out he was a crossdresser he orders drew to fire his brother–of course all ends well there when mr. wick mistakes dionne warwick for a crossdresser and loses a bet allowing drew’s brother to keep his job…maybe somehing similar would work here…

  3. DemBones says:

    Wow is right!

    Why didn’t they just offer to pay her less money now that she is so obviously less qualified to do the job?

  4. Rogue109 says:

    She would be the correct pronoun.

    Not if the “transition from male to female” has not yet been completed. If that hasn’t yet occurred, it would still be a he but would be simply cross dressing, right?

  5. Rogue109 says:

    Nope. I’m pretty sure that when someone is in transition but living as the new gender you refer to them as that gender.

    And all one needs to do to be in “transition” is to state that they are? Huh!

  6. griftdrift says:

    No. It’s a little more complicated than that. Perhaps if you did a little research on the transgendered you might not jump straight onto the cheap punchline.

    Not that I’m against cheap punchlines. They just work better when they have a hint of the real.

  7. Rogue109 says:

    No. It’s a little more complicated than that. Perhaps if you did a little research on the transgendered you might not jump straight onto the cheap punchline.

    Not that I’m against cheap punchlines. They just work better when they have a hint of the real.

    You mean this research will convince me that this guy/girl isn’t just plain bizarre? With respect, I don’t think so. Good to see you aren’t totally against cheap punchlines (grin).

  8. DavidAtlanta says:

    Rogue, you seem to be having trouble understanding this story. It’s not that complicated.

    She would be the correct pronoun.

    Not if the “transition from male to female” has not yet been completed. If that hasn’t yet occurred, it would still be a he but would be simply cross dressing, right?

    Do you cup-check everyone you meet before you assign pronouns to them? The process of changing genders takes some months to complete. You’ve probably met transgendered people before and used the correct pronouns for them without even knowing it.

    People in the early stages of transitioning will often present themselves as their old gender in some contexts and as their new gender in other contexts. In the work environment, transgender people will usually inform their boss and/or HR department before they begin to arrive to work presenting in their new gender.

    In the story above, it was at that point that Ms. Beth was fired.

    You mean this research will convince me that this guy/girl isn’t just plain bizarre?

    Sex changes stopped being bizarre decades ago. You seem to be a little late to the parade.

    Transgendered people aren’t bizarre, just a little uncommon to some. It’s a little strange to wrap your head around at first, but it’s really not a big deal once you think about it.

  9. Game Fan says:

    I may be changing my name to “barbeque panda”. But I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I just don’t want people freaking out if I do this.

  10. shep1975 says:

    I don’t care how confused he is. As long as he has one set of equipment and not the other, it’s a he. Call me insenative. Call me politically incorrect, but if this individual can go out on a cold, snowy day and write “Vandiver Elizabeth Glenn” in the snow without moving from one spot, she’s a guy.

    Now if he does someday change physically from one gender to the next, then he should be treated as a member of that new gender. Until that happens, in the work environment, they need to stay with the gender they stated that job in. Women should not feel uncomfortable going into a rest room with someone who is still physically a male.

  11. DavidAtlanta says:

    Shep, before the major surgery is done, a transgender person has to spend one year of their life completely in their new gender. That’s the minimum before doctors will go through with the surgery. There are lots of surgeries along the way. This isn’t a quick procedure. It literally takes years of being in an in-between state.

    The public has been using the same restrooms as transgendered people for as long as sex changes have been viable. It’s no big deal. I’ve never heard of anyone being uncomfortable with it. You have heard of stalls, right?

  12. dorian says:

    Hey, you know I was just thinking earlier today that self-actualizing transgendered people was pretty high up on my list of priorities. Then, I read this post, and what do you know?

    Also, ever since I was kid I have always felt like, deep down, there is this tall person trapped in a short person’s body. Every time I try and use a urinal I feel intimidated, because it is too high off the ground. And, I will never, ever be able to dunk a basketball. I need a hug.

  13. Meh. As much as I like the idea of government employees being fired on general principle, I think Jake and Elwood said it best:
    “We’re so glad to see so many of you lovely people here tonight. And we would especially like to welcome all the representatives of Illinois’ law enforcement community, who have chosen to join us here in the Palace Hotel Ballroom at this time. We do sincerely hope you all enjoy the show, and please, remember people, that no matter who you are, and what you do live, thrive and survive, there are still some things that make us all the same. You. Me. Them. Everybody. Everybody.”

  14. Rogue109 says:

    Sex changes stopped being bizarre decades ago. You seem to be a little late to the parade.

    I missed the memo that they aren’t bizarre. Sorry, but it IS bizarre.

    Transgendered people aren’t bizarre, just a little uncommon to some. It’s a little strange to wrap your head around at first, but it’s really not a big deal once you think about it.

    I’ve wrapped my head around the concept and it is totally strange. If you don’t think swapping sex organs and changing your gender isn’t a “big deal,” then you have a most skewed viewpoint for things.

  15. Rogue109 says:

    Meh. As much as I like the idea of government employees being fired on general principle, I think Jake and Elwood said it best:

    Three orange whips, please!

  16. dorian says:

    Maybe, it’d just be easier if we decided what kinds of behavior is still deviant. If we’re painting sex changes with the same brush as open heart surgery, there is no hope left for any of us.

  17. griftdrift says:

    “there is no hope left for any of us.”

    Why? Exactly how does someone using modern surgical technology to better their personal life crush your hopes and dreams?

  18. NorthGeorgiaGirl says:

    I think I missed the memo about it not being bizarre as well. Why are we so intent on making strange things acceptable just because someone wants their deviant behavior to be accepted as normal?

    When I was in college, there was a he/she that was in the university chorus with me. He/she wore dresses and makeup to rehearsals, and painted his/her nails. The biggest question on everyone’s mind was whether he/she would wear a skirt (the female uniform) or pants (the male uniform) for our performances because he/she clearly was singing in the tenor section with other males. Thankfully, he/she chose to be male during our performances….I will never forget that man..er, woman (Andrew/Angelica) and I will never, ever understand it…I guess I’m insensitive too.

  19. dorian says:

    Grift, I think the fact that people don’t understand the problem is far worse than if they did and just disagreed.

    I don’t want to get too existential, but the basic point is we are a nihilistic society. That is, we reject any form of objective religeon or morality in favor of the self-actualization of deviants, and we do it to the point of actually reclassifying what have been historically moral concepts as the deviant ones.

    Most of all, we reward non-traditional families over traditional ones, the assumption being that a nuclear family can be recast like a lump of Play-Dough. This doesn’t really matter, because the nuclear family isn’t all that important anyway.

  20. griftdrift says:

    Funny I always thought we were a society based on the individual and the pursuit of life, pursuit of happiness as long as it doesn’t interfere with other people’s pursuit.

  21. Icarus says:

    I have no problem with any individual doing whatever they want with their body as long as it involves only themselves and other consenting adults.

    I have a real problem being told that I have to accept them as normal and modify my behavior/standards/morals to suit them.

    A person is guaranteed the right to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness. If someone chooses to pursue happiness in such a way that causes a negative reaction from others, I have a hard time being told my rights to think someone an outcast, for whatever reason, are subservient to someone else’s rights to live outside social norms.

  22. Sabrina_Pandora says:

    It’s interesting to me to read the reactions here.

    My first thought was the title of the article. “He/She/It”. Somehow we change our gender, and to some it’s suddenly okay to refer to us no longer as human beings, but with the same pronoun one might use for an end table. Dehumanizing… nice touch there.

    Yes, folks, you are well within your rights to view us however you like. We exist among you, we share your rest rooms and restaurants, we work jobs and pay our taxes and actually, we don’t request any special treatment. Except basic human rights. For some that doesn’t seem so hard to grant. For others, it seems entirely too much to give.

    Yes, we do ask that you refer to us as the gender we present to the world. We do have to live for a year before undergoing genital surgery, but really, how would you know if we’ve had it done or not? An amazon with big hands and a baritone voice may well have a flawless man-made vagina and you’d still have the same prejudice. It may not always be a flawless presentation, but again, we’re just asking for a little manners. If you feel so strongly opposed to how we live our lives that you just have to be insulting, that’s your choice. And how we react to your rude insensitivity is our choice. I’ve called more than one lady “Mister: and “Sir” because they were so determined to call me the same, and they seem to like it about as much as I do.

    Yes, it is something outside the norm, and yes, most folks do think it’s bizarre. And the pointing fingers and whispers and laughter that tends to follow in our wake (not to our faces, oh no, just behind us, where it’s ‘safe’, or on the internet where a similar anonymity is present) is the price that we pay for our choices. This is our dysfunction (as defined by mental health professionals). This is how we deal with it. This is what makes us comfortable in our own skins, and we work hard to try to blend in with the rest of the sea of humanity so as not to stand out. After all, choosing to spend your life being a walking talking object of ridicule and social discomfort to others isn’t really our priority most of the time. We just want inner peace and to live our lives as the gender we’ve always considered correct for ourselves.

    Now someone is standing up and asking for equal rights because she was fired for changing her gender. Not for strolling in one day in a skirt and demanding to be called something new, but for attempting to work with the HR department of her office and make a smooth transition to continue doing the job she was already deemed quite capable of before she transitioned from he to she. And rather than look at the issues of rights, instead there just seems to be an awful lot of condemnation of the fact that society allows this, and that you are forced to accept it (though I do hear those voices of reason in the crowd, and thank you for that).

    So flame me if you like, judge me if it makes you happy, call me a freak and rail against a society that demands that you accept us. That’s the same mantra that the opponents of civil rights used fifty years ago. But hey, you’re better than that, right? And it’s not like we’re real people or anything. We gave up the right to be considered human beings when we transitioned and became something other than what God made us, right?

    Or maybe God made us this way on purpose. I dunno… He doesn’t speak directly to me and reveal such plans. Maybe some of you have a better connection with Him than we do.

  23. Rogue109 says:

    Welcome to PP, Sabrina_Pandora. Unfortunately, I fell asleep half way through your missive where you try to convince us that this concept isn’t bizarre.

    Now someone is standing up and asking for equal rights because she was fired for changing her gender.

    Because she was allegedly fired for changing his/her gender.

  24. NorthGeorgiaGirl says:

    Call me crazy, judgmental, whatever, but when God made Adam in the garden, He made him male, then he made Eve as a female. I don’t read in my Bible where God gave Adam the choice to change his gender if he didn’t like the one God gave him. It is a stretch to say God made you that way. I could become a bank robber and try to claim that God made me with an innate need to steal things…that doesn’t mean that He wants me to be a thief. If God wanted me to be NorthGeorgiaBoy, he’d have let me be born with different anatomy. The anatomy defines my gender! No matter what man does with it, it is still not the way I was born to be.

    Please don’t expect everyone to just accept as normal something that clearly is not, and expect the government to give special rights for things it should not.

  25. griftdrift says:

    “Welcome to PP, Sabrina_Pandora. Unfortunately, I fell asleep half way through your missive where you try to convince us that this concept isn’t bizarre.”

    Well if you had, you might have learned a few of the things I alluded to before. You know Rogue, I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt that your schtick was well schtick. Now I realize I was wrong.

    “expect the government to give special rights for things it should not.”

    NorthGeorgiaGirl. You consider the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution as “special right”? Well so do I. I consider the entire Constitution pretty special. Particularly the fact that is available for all citizens. But I doubt we agree on that last part.

  26. dorian says:

    Sabrina, just because we can do a thing, doesn’t necessarily mean we should. We could release some virus that destroys all like on earth. We could have a inter-continental nuclear war.

    Pretty much for the entire history of the human race on this planet, gender has been cast in stone. So, here were are. In one generation, that no longer applies. Why? Because we want you to feel better about yourself.

    Also, I don’t read the constitution to imply that either feeling you’re born the wrong sex, or being attracted to the same sex is a classification that affords you the same type of protection that african-americans enjoy.

    The good news, for you, is that well within my lifetime you will have those protections., and probably more. The nuclear family, already a minority, will probably get a spot in the Smithsonian next to the dinosaurs.

    The institution of marriage will likely be further expanded to include brothers marrying sisters (if they are both consenting adults), multiple spouses, and any other combinations of consenting adults we could possibly contemplate (and several we probably can’t) right now. But don’t worry, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone it is fine.

    I don’t think you are a freak, but neither do I feel particularly inclined to have the fabric of morality, the family, and society re-weaved to accommodate your choice of lifestyle.

    I think you’ll win in the end, and probably get more than you ever realized in terms of rights and protections, etc. Churches, and any other type of objective form of morality that is defined by anything other than a “living, breathing constitution” that can be interpreted and reinterpreted to extend to any imaginable form of deviancy, will go the way of the dodo bird.

    Right and wrong are concepts that you don’t get to redefine to feel better about yourself. But that is what we want, isn’t it? The problem is you don’t really get to choose everywhere that applies.

  27. griftdrift says:

    So many strawmen. So little time.

    By the way, Dorian, you do realize their are species out there that change gender? Wonder what god was thinking with them.

  28. Sabrina_Pandora says:

    You’re right, folks. Right and wrong aren’t concepts that i get to redefine to feel better about myself. But then, I don’t define right and wrong for others, just myself.

    We’re not trying to destroy the nuclear family. Please, by all means continue- to my experience we of the GLBT community are all for you. But enforcing the idea that the nuclear family is the only family just seems a smidge incorrect to me. If a man is widowed, should he not raise the children himself should he be unable to find another suitable mate? Not a nuclear family either. Maybe broaden your perspectives a bit?

    And somehow in my writings and our search for rights you don’t see any parallels to civil rights- interesting. And you also see us destroying churches… funny, there have been a great number of religions on this earth for what, seven centuries now? Homosexuality existed, as did transgenderism (though humanity lacked the scientific means to make it possible to actually enact the change), and somehow it didn’t destroy any religions. If anything, religions tried their best to quash those lifestyles other than their own, historically.

    And as far as the Bible goes, well, the option didn’t really exist back when it was written, so that might account for why it wasn’t covered. It also didn’t say not to release a plague upon the earth… tho it could be interpreted that God kinda reserves that right for himself.

    The long and short of this is that we live our lives. We’re real people. Yes, we are unusual. And you are free to consider us bizarre. And last time I checked, I didn’t ask that you embrace us. You don’t have to- but it might be nice if you gave us a chance to be considered as human beings, even if we don’t follow the same religion, moral code or definitions that you do. We’re not bank robbers, we’re not idiots and we’re not trying to ruin your world- unless of course in your world everyone has to be just like you, in which case you’re probably already pretty unhappy with the state of the world.

    And the constitution doesn’t have to be rewritten for us. We’d like very much to just be average citizens… but covered by the same rights.

    Again, too much to ask of some, it seems.

    Oh, and sorry I put you to sleep. Maybe if your rights were as few as mine, it might hold your attention more raptly.

    Allegedly.

  29. dorian says:

    I didn’t say the constitution had to be re-written. They’ll find it in there somewhere. Eventually. They always do. And you’re exactly right. They’re have been societies that have done all the things you described. Just one quick question. Where are those societies now?

    I’m not suggesting we’re going to into a pillar of salt. I’m just in the unusual position of agreeing with V.I. Lenin when he said “Destroy the family, you destroy the country.”

    Grift, you’re not even trying so I won’t bother.

  30. griftdrift says:

    For those playing internet discussion bingo we just had a reference to the fall of the decadent Roman Empire. Mark your cards.

    And dorian neither are you so neither will I.

Comments are closed.