Georgia remains Red… if you believe the pollsters. From a May 14, 2008 Strategic Vision poll:
If the election for President were held today, whom would you support, John McCain, the Republican or Barack Obama, the Democrat? (McCain – 54%, Obama 40%)
John McCain 54% Barack Obama 40% Undecided 6%
But whoa there, Nellie. Let’s now look at voting data from Center For Responsive Politics and Georgia Secretary of State as presented by CL today:
Amount Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign has raised in Georgia: $1,305,275
Amount Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign has raised in Georgia: $2,458,219
Number of votes Obama received in 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary: 704,247
Number of votes McCain received in 2008 Georgia Republican Presidential Primary: 304,751
Number of votes Sen. John Kerry received in 2004 Georgia Democratic Presidential Primary: 293,265
Number of votes George W. Bush received in 2000 Georgia Republican Primary: 430,480
Painful as it is for ‘em, pollsters are, at some point real soon, going to have to stop deflecting “the cell phone issue” and come to terms with this new Obama demo: young and wired and fired. I’d venture to say many Obama kids don’t even have land lines, the primary data trove trolled by political pollsters.
I know Georgia is about a half century behind the rest of the nation, but can we get some youth-y data ’round this place for once?
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Jace,
You seem to forget that you have to live in America too. Let’s see how much YOU laugh when the Dems start levying more taxes on people like you, or start banning certain activites you like to do (e.g., hunting animals).
You must be living in a plastic bubble down there in Milledgeville to presume that who is elected president will have ZERO effect on your life.
Been in a meeting all morning fellas. Got a few things to catch up on. Since I was singled out by name, or at least, by fake name, I feel you’re owed a detailed response on how wrong you are. It will have to be a bit later, however.
Bill,
As always you are exactly wrong.
I won’t laugh one damn bit when they start leving more taxes on me. Just like I didn’t laugh one damn bit when your party spent 8 years bankrupting the country. Just like I wouldn’t laugh when McCain’s cap and trade policies will cause “people like me” to spend even more on gas.
I would give some money to the CFG to run ads against McCain about a month before the election but…oh wait, that’s right. I can’t.
It seems as though the only thing you republican have these days is the old liberal boogeyman. “Hide your children, the Democrats are coming.”
Boo. F*cking. Hoo. If the last 8 years is indicative of what happens when the Republicans are in charge, I’ll take anyone else.
Bill,
That’s a good nickname for Jace, Bubbleboy.
One wonders if there was a Jaceian analog in 1917 Russia cheering on the victory of the communists because of how disappointed they were in conditions under the Tsar. Or cheered Stalin’s rise to power because Trosky and Bukharin did not meet expectations.
Call me whatever you want.
I’ll be laughing for the next for years while you guys whine, bitch, moan and complain under President Obama and his Democratic Congress. You really have no one to blame but yourselves…
But hey, scapegoat us kooky libertarians all you want. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.
If I wanted Barack to be President, I’d vote for Barack.
I don’t want him or McCain to be President, so I’m voting for Bob Barr. But yes Doug, your communist analogy was spot on. I hope your newborn inherited your sharp wit.
Barack Obama = John McCain
Either one you pick, you’re voting for the same person.
Obamcain.
Doug,
You said this: “Change the rules so that Presidential elections need a majority to take a state’s EV”
That is how Georgia works now. What state’s EV doesn’t work this way?
“Barack Obama = John McCain”
Incorrect. They may be similar in a few areas, but not equal. Not even close.
JSM,
You’re right. Obama is more conservative.
Bill,
You only need a pluralty, not a majority. A majority would have meant that several states would have gone to runoffs after the 1992 election when Ross Perot took 17ish percent of the vote.
If there are 10 viable people running for President in a state, you could win the entire state’s EV’s by winning as few as 11% of the vote.
Therefore, third parties do nothing on the Presidential election except help insure the victory of the party least like themselves.
You’re right. Obama is more conservative.
Because both have no regard for economic liberty, but at least Barack won’t try to inject goverment into my bedroom.
O.K.,
Still not the time for the long, elequent post you so deserve. So I’ll start with the one point, since you believe Obama and McCain are the same on “economic liberty”:
Given that the next president is likely to have a solidly democratic House and a fillabuster proof democratic Senate, would Obama and/or McCain sign legislation that would allow for
1) Non-Secret ballot union elections, and
2) A law keeping employers from hiring permanent workers to replace striking workers.
Dems have tried to pass both recently. I have no doubt that Obama would be proud to hold a Rose Garden ceremony to trumpet this “achievement for working famlies”. I have no doubt that McCain would veto both.
Given the backdrop of our vaporizing domestic auto industry, which can be largely, though not solely, blamed on the UAW, please tell me how giving unions more power to destroy employers demonstrates “economic liberty”.
Icarus,
Please telling me how instituting a cap and trade policy will keep my gas prices lower and keep us competitive with the rest of the world?
That’s something your hero favors…cap and trade that is?
Please Icarus read below:
McCain = Obama
Obama = McCain
Obamcain does not = Bob Barr
Doug,
The GOP at this point can only be described as the party least like the Libertarian Party.
Both major parties have no regard for economic liberty. But at least the dems want to stay out of the bedrooms.
Jace,
It doesn’t matter how many ways they are similar if I can demonstrate substantive places where they are not.
Do you really think 2-4 years of Dems passing pro-union legislation unchecked will increase our economic liberty?
See above, try again.
McCain does not equal Obama
Doug,
You are right about third parties ensuring that their opposites are elected. In other countries, this is called a reason to build a coalition. If libertarians can’t stomach the GOP anymore, and there are just enough of them to make sure the GOP perpetually loses, then what are the possible outcomes?
1. The GOP can ignore the Libertarians, and keep on losing. Keep in mind the Libs have no problem with this as by now, the GOP is just as bad at the Democrats, to them.
OR
2. The GOP can change so as to attract the Libs back into the fold. Remember that “small government” stuff we talked about all those long years in the minority? GOOD NEWS! We’ll soon be in the minority again (for quite some time, it seems). Perhaps the GOP can catch up on it then.
Sure, the instinct is to rally around McCain. But read the writing on the wall: our candidate received a pittance of primary votes, he is taking public financing, he has to be joined at the hip to the RNC to even have an organization, and his base doesn’t trust him. The Independents are voting for Obama, not McCain. Also, this time in 2004, the GOP was abuzz with the activities that laid the groundwork for victory in the fall. Now? Nothing is going on. The best we can do is protect Saxby and try to not hemorrhage too many seats in the legislature.
Since we are going to lose anyway, why not take stock of our failures and clean house? You surely can’t be happy with the GOP elected officials, from the President on down, can you? Please say you aren’t.
Back to something you said earlier, what credible conservative intellectuals are you referring to? The only ones I can think of have a strong libertarian streak. The GOP is intellectually bankrupt; even if it were not, the people in charge of it are too obtuse to listen to any good idea that might come along anyhow.
Please tell me if I am wrong.
Icarus,
If the UAW destroys the already uncompetitive domestic auto industry, then they will also destroy…the UAW. No auto industry = no auto industry union. Problem solved. Then someone else can come in and make decent cars in America at a competitive level. Propping up Detriot is also NOT economic liberty.
Icarus,
2-4 years of McCain’s economic policies will put is in the same position as 2-4 years of Barack Obama’s economic policies.
McCain = Obama.
I’m not going to continue to argue with people who are being intellectually dishonest. You guys are backing McCain out of sheer partisan loyalty, not because you agree with his “conservative” credentials. Until you can admit that truth, we can’t continue this discussion.
I’ll say it again:
All of you who are supporting McCain are doing so out of blind partisan loyalty. Nothing more, nothing less.
Until you can admit that, there’ s no point in engaging you in discussion.
“Propping up Detriot is also NOT economic liberty.”
Please correct me if I’m wrong (and I sincerely mean that, as I’m too lazy to look it up right now), but wasn’t it McCain that told Michigan voters during the primary that their jobs were gone and not coming back, when Romney was trying to tell the whole state he would give them all better and higher paying jobs.
McCain isn’t trying to prop up Detroit. He’s also not interested in aiding and abetting the UAW’s deathwish on the domestic auto industry.
Jace,
Until you can admit that either McCain or Obama will be the next president, their isn’t any point in moving forward either.
It’s great to be an idealist, but eventually you have to be a realist.
Jace,
“All of you who are supporting McCain are doing so out of blind partisan loyalty. Nothing more, nothing less.”
What a fascinating statement from the person “blindly” supporting a guy like Bob Barr.
FoxNews.com has a banner announcing that Jimmy Johnson has resigned from Obama’s V.P. selection team.
1) Why is Jimmy Johnson involved in selecting Barak’s running mate, and
2) Do you think he’s quitting because they refused to vet Dionne Sanders?
“2-4 years of McCain’s economic policies will put is in the same position as 2-4 years of Barack Obama’s economic policies.”
Wrong again. Barack would have the Fed paying for everyone’s healthcare, everyone turning in their guns, the oil companies paying way more taxes rather than pumping and refining more oil, our gov’t trying to make nice with known terrorists, global warming initiatives costing us an extra 50+ cents/gallon for gas, and middle class taxpayers getting soaked with even higher income and capital gains taxes. McCain’s policies, although flawed in some areas, won’t do these things.
jsm…two words
Keating Five.
A tax cut without proper spending cuts is the worse economic policy. I warned years ego this would create all the issues we are facing today (falling dollar, real-estate, values, credit crunch, inflation, real wage issue….)
We will have tax increases no matter who wins. The free lunch program is over. If we do not stop the bleeding the dollar it will be like a peso.
The biggest entitlement programs cannot be fixed by stopping them. What some of you forget is most people paid into them for years and the biggest part of the shortfall is Lawmakers on both side blew the money. Also the economy would stop if entitlement checks stopped going out after most paid for it for years via pay roll taxes and Medicare tax and now depend on it to live.
I agree with you Mr. Konop. I usually do.
Alot of the debate that we are seeing right now, when boiled down to the salt, is how much the government should steer the economy. The worse off the economy gets, it is obvious (as history has shown) that the government needs to steer a little more. McCain seems fine with the current state of things though. We can not afford, as a nation, to allow this hands off (laissez faire) approach.
This is not the 18th or the 19th century. I don’t even invest much in the American markets, I can just as easily invest in stable European markets. Europe is being hit hard by the credit and energy problems that we are having, but their governments actually respond.
Jace,
You said
And have said something like it several times recently. What, exactly, is going on in your bedroom that this has become a nigh obsession?
Indy,
I respect where you come from on this, but until the rules of how elections are won are changed to require a majority (like non Presidential elections in Georgia) in every state, multiple parties will do nothing but scatter the people who support their side of the argument.
I would love to see more candidates on the ballot, and would love to work to help anyone (whether I agree with their politics or not) to get on the ballot in Georgia. The reason is that whoever wins needs a majority, so splitting voting bloks is not an issue.
The Presidency does not work that way, and only a fool runs as a third party candidate and doesn’t know that the only possible outcome is to harm people who share his philosophy.
Doug,
Great cities came to be built at great strategic points, on high grounds, on deep harbors, and at key points on coasts and waterways.
At many junctures in history, it became necessary for ossified, corrupt societies occupying these dominant positions to be replaced by dynamic, thriving societies. Usually this entailed total slaughter of the inhabitants.
In such instances, it probably was nothing personal, just that the vanquished were in the way, just that they held the dominant position.
In our modern day the need to take places and things without damage has been seen on the development of the neutron bomb.
We conservatives see that the GOP is holding OUR PLACE, to our extreme disadvantage. They are a corrupt, ossified bunch. Nothing personal, but we intend to take the dominant conservative position back.
To us, eliminating the GOP is the greater priority, for we cannot do ANYTHING as long as this corrupt, criminal gang is in our way.
19 million of us voted for Perot in ’92 and scared the GOP into adopting Perot’s positions in the Contract with America, resulting in the GOP taking of the House the next election. It scared Clinton into welfare reform, tax cuts, and surpluses (amazingly US Treasuries were being RETIRED early!).
Y’all’s guilt trips ain’t working on me, Jace, John, and a bunch of others.
We just hope the GOP leaves something standing as it passes from the scene.
Killing off the GOP will make the Dems more attentive.
IndyInjun
GREAT POST!!!
“We just hope the GOP leaves something standing as it passes from the scene.”
Ah, so Indy believes that if there are a few bad apples, the entire orchard (not just the barrel, but the ENTIRE orchard) should be burned in scorched-Earth fashion…BUT, he/she “hopes” there will still be enough saplings left to bring the orchard back up to production in a few years.
AND, Konop here thinks that’s the “winning strategy” for life.
You two clowns were probably with those idiots who declared that “YEAH! Adolph is talking RIGHT! We should get him elected to the leader of Germany and we will take back this country for us!” back in 1926.
John Konop and Indy,
Don’t you guys just love the Hannity logic coming from the likes of Bill Simon and Doug Deal. First it was Doug comparing me to the Bolsheviks in Russia, now it’s Bill Simon comparing us to the people who supported Hitler.
Don’t worry guys, when they have to resort to bullsh*t like that, it means they don’t have a leg to stand on, and they know it. When we started this discussion, I wouldn’t have minded if McCain lost the election. After talking with these guys, now I HOPE McCain loses the election.
It’s going to be very entertaining to see who they scapegoat then.
Bill Simon
Bottom line we think COUNTRY is more important than PARTY!
John,
That is bunk. You are willing to drive the country into a tree because you want to reform a party. I am willing to accept a bad party to at least apply some form of brake against ridiculously bad ideas from a horrible party.
You can stick your head into the sand and hide from reality, but at least be honest and admit you guys don’t care one lick about the country,justhaving your way.
Doug you sound Like a PC drug counselor who thinks feeding a heroin addict more drugs will cure the problem. The truth is cold turkey is never easy. As one who gave up smoking years ago I truly understand the problem.
Why would the pork/lobbyist addicted lawmakers change unless they saw enough people have had it? Indy is right about what happen with the Perot scare.
And I challenge anybody to look at Tom Price’s voting record after I ran against him. He has changed his position on almost every key issue I ran on.
NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND
EARMARKS
ENERGY
HIGHWAY FUNDING
NAFTA HIGHWAY
HEALTHCARE
FARM BILL
It does not take much to push lawmakers in the right direction. But if you do nothing expect nothing!
“The worse off the economy gets, it is obvious (as history has shown) that the government needs to steer a little more.”
GC, with a statement like that, you really should remove “Goldwater” from your screen name.
“To us, eliminating the GOP is the greater priority, for we cannot do ANYTHING as long as this corrupt, criminal gang is in our way.”
Good luck with that, Indy. Let me know how that works out for ya.
“When we started this discussion, I wouldn’t have minded if McCain lost the election. After talking with these guys, now I HOPE McCain loses the election.”
Hey, Jace. May I refresh your memory: “Yes, I will be supporting John Sidney McCain III in the 2008 Presidential Election.” – Jace Walden
http://www.peachpundit.com/2008/02/11/john-youll-do/
GOPer.
John,
Then you sound like a “zero tolerance” extremist who would deny cancer patients THC because some people might use it to become intoxicated, or deny a heroine addict methadone because it too is addictive.
Regardless of you and Jace’s pie in the sky dreams (I think Indy is actually a bit more realistic in what he says), this election does come down to two people, Obama and McCain. The fact that you two claim that there will be no difference between the two means that you are not being intellectually honest.
What type of nominee would McCain likely appoint to the Supreme Court? What type of nominee would Obama? That one decision alone is probably 30 percent or more of the importance of the influence of a sitting president. Policy is fleeting, the court endures.
As much as I dislike McCain as a nominee, the fact is that he won. He got the most votes. I can then take my ball and go home and stew and blame him for the trouble caused by an Obama presidency and a super-majority Dem Congress, or I can compromise and realize that this is the best that we can hope for this time around, and save the county the decades of harm cause by unchecked Dem control.
Or do you relish in the thought of having energy ration punch cards? Oil drilling continuing to be off limits in our country? New nuclear plants prohited?
McCain is actually a strict deficit hawk. This is where he is actually good. Do you really think that Obama gives one lick about the deficit if reducing it stands in the way of “Great Society II”?
So screw the county, as long as you make your little irrelevant statement.
Doug,
McCain cannot claim the ‘deficit hawk’ with 140,000 troops in Iraq…….oops, silly me, the war spending is not on budget and is therefore not in ‘deficit.’ Instead war funding comes straight from debt sold to the Chinese.
This is how wild the semantics have become. One can have no deficits, but still bankrupt the country by going straight to the debt market for funding.
Jace, isn’t it funny how Bill Simon labels us as Nazis after the Brown Shirt tactics used against Ron Paul delegates to state conventions, including Georgia’s?
Looking at that has driven this old boy to the point of putting duct tape over the word “Republican” on campaign signs that he allowed GOP candidates to put up on his property.
I won’t come back until this party is totally gutted.
I have been warning every Republican that I like that I won’t support them under that party label after this election.
As written many times, we are in the good company of a lot of ex-GOP pundits, especially Peggy Noonan.
Peggy Noonan ain’t Eva Broun.
Eva Braun…..sorry Congressman!
Jace, John & Injun Joe,
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. That was the point of the reference to the support that Adolf had amongst a LOT of people who went for “Change!” without actually being Nazis themselves.
And, when they saw Hitler’s rise to power, it is doubtful they all embraced it. Though, anyone who protested was, I think, put out of his misery.
Doug,
I suspect Jace, Indy, and Konop are not much different, actually, than Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter: They honestly would prefer a royal screw-up in this country so they will have something to point to and talk about for the next 4-8 years.
Doug
Your logic is similar to using methadone to cure a heroin addiction. It will mask the problem yet never cure it!
This debate is oddly similar!
Can Drugs Cure Drug Addiction?
When methadone was first introduced 24 years ago, it was hailed as a magic bullet aimed at the heart of heroin addiction. A neat, clean medical solution to a social problem. It has proved to be something less than that. Methadone is a treatment, not a cure, for addiction, and an imperfect one at that. But for some 100,000 of the country’s half-million heroin addicts, it offers an alternative to shooting up as well as the possibility of a productive life.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,959308,00.html
Bill Simon
YOU SAID
“They honestly would prefer a royal screw-up in this country”
What would you call Bush and company?
Bill,
To add to your Hilter reference. Forget his politics for a moment, but Hilter was known to draw huge crowds and was noted as bing very articulate and charsimatic. He ran against a war hero for chancelor who was much older and unable to run an active campaign due to health reasons.
The young Hilter, who inspired throngs of youths and people fed up with the status quo, was then able to only muster about a third of the vote. His “excitement” and well attended speaking events amount to very little actual votes.
I wonder if this has any potential lesson in this election?
With Bob Barr on the ballot and Ron Paul’s revolutionaries likely to upstage the GOP convention, it will be a LONG 5 months for the Republicans and their miserable excuse of a candidate.
McCain is another Bob Dole, who Gingrich accurately described as the tax collector for the welfare state.
Doug Deal
That comment was not out of line.
Doug
Sorry
THAT COMMENT WAS OUT OF LINE!
Which one was that, John?
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