Liveblogging LP Presidential Nomination

We’re going through our third ballot now. You can veiw liveblogging here or tune into C-SPAN.

[3:32pm] Bob Barr is the Libertarian Party nominee for President.

[6:03pm] Wayne Allyn Root is the vice-presidential nominee.

57 comments

  1. SouthFultonGuy says:

    A vote for Bob Barr is far more than symbolic; it’s a proxy vote for Barack Obama.

  2. joe says:

    Obama is a bad choice. Clinton is a bad choice. McCain is a bad choice. Barr is a good choice.

  3. I Am Jacks Post says:

    Great. Along with Miss Cynthia, we now have two arrogant, whiny, self-righteous Georgians running for President. And neither of them has a remote chance at winning.

    Cynthia is taller that Bilbo Barr, though, so that’s cool.

  4. Insider Mike says:

    Joe,

    Like it or not, the next President will be a Republican or a Democrat. A vote for anyone but a Republican or a Democrat is a pure waste of time.

  5. joe says:

    Mike,

    Like it or not, the Republicans and Democrats now stand for the same things. A vote for either is a waste of time.

  6. Harry says:

    McCain has many issues I support, so I’ll work for him. Besides, Barr can’t even put Georgia in play…

  7. Jason Pye says:

    Uhhh, dewberry, that is an understatement. I went over the Barr’s press conference and Christine Smith was out in front of the room railing against Barr and the delegates that voted for her. It got her some face time with a tv crew.

  8. IndyInjun says:

    Dewberry wrote “What does it say about the party who lets someone like this carry the “message”?”

    What does it say about the GOP that it is running a whole lot of liars and crooks who crapped all over its message?

    Obama is not the change I am looking for. Barr is for the %#$ Fairtax, but at least he gives me an option in November.

    There is no way in hell that this conservative votes for McCain.

    NONE.

  9. John Konop says:

    I am with Indy I cannot get why a conservative would vote for McCain. Can any conservative tell me why anyone should vote for McCain? Not why I should vote against obama?

    Also can any conservative tell me why they think McCain is better than Barr?

  10. Icarus says:

    Reverse order (though I’m not sure if I qualify as a “conservative” anymore):

    McCain can win, Barr can not.

    McCain sounded the alarm at the beginning of the Bush era, part deux, that spending was the problem, not taxes. Had we listened to him then, we might not have a dollar worth less than a peso, and oil worth more per barrell than the cars we’re pumping it in.

  11. dewberry says:

    You put it in clearly understandable terms Icarus thank you.

    On top of that, does Georgia really want the blame for losing to someone like Obama? Haven’t we suffered enough?

  12. Icarus says:

    “On top of that, does Georgia really want the blame for losing to someone like Obama? Haven’t we suffered enough?”

    I don’t think we’re close to living down Carter, though with today’s gas prices, maybe Texas may inherit the mantle.

  13. I’ve got problems with McCain but on the two most important issues to me; the war on terror and controlling government spending, McCain’s solid.

  14. Harry says:

    Anyone who thinks there’s no difference between McCain and Obama should review their voting records.

  15. Icarus says:

    Hold on Konop, I’m getting to your question.

    “How can McCain balance the budget with a long term nation building strategy in Iraq and the Middle East?”

    I see a distinct difference in McCain’s approach to Iraq than Bush’s.

    Namely, Bush and the Neocons went in under a guise of “spreading democracy”.

    McCain wants to stay under a guise of “US doesn’t quit/surrender”.

    I think McCain’s goals are a lot more “short term” than his rhetoric states. He’s looking for a way to declare victory, then draw down as many troops as possible.

    Call me naive, that’s the way I see it.

  16. IndyInjun says:

    Buzz,

    I only see doom in perpetuating a pointless war in Iraq, when the most dangerous terrorist state on earth is Pakistan, just as it was in October 2002 to anyone knowledgeable about true Islamic extremism.

    This is not protecting America at this point, it is a bunch of you partisans who cannot admit that your guy committed the worst strategic error in American history, by spending US forces against the wrong country.

    McCain wants to perpetuate that error and so, sadly, does Obama.

    When the effort transformed into yet another rationale, caused a reversal of sides being fought, and started depending on paying Sunnis to stop fighting US forces, even I decided that continuing was not patriotic, not sound, just lunacy wrapped in a patriotic disguise.

    The ‘saving’ grace is that the financial collapse will command a withdrawal out if national necessity.

    George W. Bush has very nearly destroyed America. I have the satisfaction of having sharply broken from enabling him.

    McCain sold his soul to Bush. What he once was is gone.

  17. dewberry says:

    Look, if after all of this we come out with long term partners in peace like South Korea and the Japanese then we will be doing real good in the middle east.

    There is plenty of blame to go around concerning energy policy and how we ended up like this.

    There is not enough capacity to keep up with all of the demand that is facing us over the next few years.

    Pandering? Sure there has been pandering. Look at how the environmental wackos have us locked out of the domestic oil business. The committee guests spoke in plain English that ours is the only country to have such regulations that discourages the exploitation of these resources.

    Our transportation system is geared entirely to folks driving cars to get to where they need to go. We have a very poor public transit system.

    Take the American Airlines actions for things to come. They are retiring airplanes, raising rates, and laying people off due to the high oil prices. Just the same, we will have many folks who won’t be able to afford to drive to their jobs and will have to suffer through the miserable offerings we have for bus service in Savannah.

    The list of those to blame is long. Such a basic thing like gas is bringing entire industries of our country to their knees and indeed bankrupting companies who will never return.

    Sure it is the survival of the fittest but where can we find any sense of triumph when there are only going to be so many left standing?

    The pandering and lack of vision on both sides of the isles has left us in this vulnerable position.

    Concerning the cost of oil, greed certainly is a good motivator and why not? We are hooked on this same oil and why shouldn’t the suppliers get every dime they can?

    We just played along with this and into the hands of these powers. How can anyone deny that these are powers at work here?

    Thank your local tree hugger for the mess we are in but at the same time do not give a pass to any of these no good politicians who have played into this trap.

    When we have millions of heavy trucks on the road, gas hogs, 2 or 3 cars in every driveway, citizens driving hummers with one person on board and this and that, what better time to profit and profit large?

    The focus needs to be on alternatives and at the same time getting the domestic output of our own oil ramped up and flowing.

    Too bad the “leaders” didn’t see this coming and prepare for the worst.

    Oh yeah, build 50 new nuclear plants at billions more than they would have cost only 5 years ago and turn the coal into oil.

  18. IndyInjun says:

    Harry,

    Anyone who is thinking about voting for McCain needs to remember that he is Mr. Open Borders. He is also Mr. Keating 5. More recently he became a Rove disciple.

    Back during the Korean war, Americans were patriotic enough to pay a war tax to fund it. Today McCain and the pseudo-conservatives make no pretense of paying for it, only borrowing the money from China.

    How much longer are we going to give these people to totally destroy America financially, if they have not done so already?

    How is borrowing $trillions to fund a war, creating massive inflation in oil prices, and driving America into even greater oil dependency on Arab states remotely “conservative.”

    It is lunacy.

  19. IndyInjun says:

    Candler,

    Don’t rejoice just yet. Your guy has made a procession of just simply astounding blunders.

    With 2 major candidates like these, a financial crisis greater than 1929 upon us, gas prices threatening to top $5 in fairly short order, and moronic ‘pastors’ on both sides offending sensible floks, Barr has a real chance of winning.

  20. John Konop says:

    dewberry and Buzz

    The truth is Bush and company ran up a 9 trillion dollar national debt and that is why the dollar is in the toilet! And they used tax payer’s guarantees to lend money to people who could not afford it hoping to fix this loosing strategy in volume ie rollover.

    Now the world does not trust our money ie check out the value of a dollar. And that is why inflation is out of control. I will remind many of you when I ran against Price I gave out warnings to many on the PP.

    I will say McCain has been on both sides of the Iraq issue and he may be just be giving red meat to the mindless followers of this failed Neocon strategy. And Icarus might be right because bottom line we are running out of money or countries that will lend it to us.

    The only reason our money has some value is because to many countries are holding it.

    I would say the best reason to vote for McCain is in a split government they fight more and spend less. Bush did not even know the word VETO until the GOP was thrown out!

    Yet Indy makes a very compelling argument that we will not see any real change unless the GOP gets wiped out in 08. Do we really have a conservative party anymore? So why not start over and if not now when?

    dewberry and Buzz do you really think we can afford this nation building strategy? And if so please show me the math!

  21. Jane says:

    It was not long ago when the LP were for open borders, no drug laws, no minimun wage, no public schools. Like most parties they have changed thier possition to get more votes and lost thier way. Barr is a Moderate Libertarian and a recent convert. While I do not like McCain and Bush has been a real disappointment on economic issues, I will not leave the party. There are still some real conservative Republicans, but they are unfortunately at the local level only.

  22. IndyInjun says:

    Dewberry wrote:

    “Look at how the environmental wackos have us locked out of the domestic oil business. ”

    Yet another Bush injury – He refused to grant drilling permits off of Florida’s coast at the request of his brother, Jeb.

    Both parties have had a hand in the energy debacle.

  23. John Konop says:

    Dewberry

    Also we refuse to deal with Cuba while they are drilling oil off our shores with Communist China who we trade with.

    Please help me understand this policy?

  24. AubieTurtle says:

    What makes those of you wishing for a GOP loss as a form of punishment think that it will result in the party becoming more of your brand of conservative?

    The GOP seems quite intent on getting the Latino vote. So far it hasn’t worked all that well but it looks like they’re planning long term. While some of the religious issues in the Latino community are similar to those of the religious right, they’re usually the opposite of the “less government in my life” conservatives. Many of the other Latino issues are very much on the left end of the spectrum. Why pander to a bunch of white middle age men who aren’t producing much in the way of offspring when the Latino population is booming and has no long standing allegiance to any particular US political party?

    A huge loss might end up with the GOP moving further away from where you want them to be, rather than closer.

  25. Bill Simon says:

    “Balance the budget”…yeah, John K…that’s a REALLY important issue with Socialists. Right after they take away our guns, and impose some more taxes on earners like YOU, they will worry about “balancing the budget” for you.

    In fact, John, I predict Obama’s economic advisors have their sights set right on you and your successful company’s profits to HELP them “balance the budget.”

  26. StevePerkins says:

    The GOP seems quite intent on getting the Latino vote.

    they’re usually the opposite of the “less government in my life” conservatives.

    Why pander to a bunch of white middle age men who aren’t producing much in the way of offspring when the Latino population is booming?

    Uhh… because you’re supposed to be conservatives? Until Reagan came along, most of those “middle age men” weren’t big on the “less government in my life” notion either. Republicans worked their asses off to bring people around… they didn’t say, “Gee, this New Deal stuff is pretty popular, let’s just pander to that.”

    It’s to the point now where you’re openly stating that it’s silly to promote conservative ideas because they’re not fashionable at the moment. Shockingly, you’re getting your butts handed to you in two elections in a row… because why would people want to elect psuedo-Democrats when they can just choose the real thing? Don’t blame Barr for being a “spoiler”… things have devolved to the point where the GOP stands for nothing other than holding office, and your support is on a downturn accordingly.

  27. dewberry says:

    John Konop

    You are correct. You speak the truth about what we have signed on for.

    Yes, any future conflict will likely get the go or no go signal from these financiers who have backed our present occupation.

    We’ve gone from $500 hammers to $2 million dollar hammers.

    The sadness is the reality that if our oil is interrupted we will have a very hard time fighting a war abroad and also quelling the civil unrest we will have at home.

    We have many challenges moving forward and I think these cracks in the facade are showing. Soon the true reality of the situation will have sunlight and then people are really going to get fidgety.

    What the oil has done to the markets in this short amount of time is enough that even the common folks know something incredible is on the horizon.

    We’ve got to get beyond all of the shit talking and come to terms with what we have or don’t have anymore.

    I used to think about the children but now I see how indifferent they are about almost anything and realize again how sad things look going forward.

    But, I am always the optimist and that is why I am in love with Olivia Newton John and am a firm believer in Xanadew
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=7m1UWSD-FaA

    And if that doesn’t work we always have Olivia Newton John’s Magic
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=r7WPwH8Rd6g&feature=related

    Oh yeah, I was born a Baptist.

    Seriously, we’ve got to get our kids working their bottoms off. We have got to have some good tax payers.

    On another positive note (besides Olivia) we landed a new research vessel on Mars. We have these abilities to study and mine remote planets but we can’t do the same in our own country. We’ve got to do something to get this economy going and I can’t think of a better thing to do such other than drilling, pumping, canning and refining oil. Next, we need to build 50 new nuclear power plants and turn coal into oil.

    All of this takes money. We need to make sure that more of our resources are towards those ends.

    It really is very simple. Just like Chatham County, it is all about priorities. We have a million plus dollar civil rights museum being constructed but our public transportation system has buses that are falling apart.

    On my way to my grandmother’s funeral I could not help but notice the smooth roads all the way from the Bryan County line to Montgomery County. Instead of us fixing our roads and transportation system in Chatham the so called leaders build swimming pools and civil rights museums instead.

    It is all about priorities. Let us agree to get them straight.

  28. IndyInjun says:

    Aubie T wrote:

    “What makes those of you wishing for a GOP loss as a form of punishment think that it will result in the party becoming more of your brand of conservative?”

    Rewarding corruption begets more corruption.

    If the GOP becomes extinct, it is just fine by me. I will have blown $tens of thousands contributing to a lost cause. So be it.

    It seems to me that the blue dog coalition in the Democratic party is doing a commendable job of reigning in the worst impulses of the liberal wing.

    Barr is going to get a LOT of votes in this age of financial meltdown and corruption, for he is going against one of the Keating 5.

    By election day America will have had a gut full of Obama and McCain.

  29. Jane says:

    If Barr and Baldwin take conservative and libertarian votes away from the GOP, it will force the party to move to the left in order to take votes away from the Dem’s. Pure libertarians, Southern Rights voters, and Paleo-Conservatives are not reliable swing voters. They are less likely to vote GOP than more moderate swing voters.

    On the other hand, far right conservative and libertarians need to vote strategically for acceptable Republicans and to skip races where all candidates are unacceptable. This puts them in play as swing voters. Plus, they need to fight the ideological fight against liberals and socialists. The real enemy are those who never support conservative values not those who occasionally do the right thing.

  30. AubieTurtle says:

    Don’t mistake my analysis of political strategy with personal political beliefs. I think pandering sucks no matter who is doing it or who they are pandering too. Steve, I don’t think it is silly to promote the ideas you believe in, I just don’t think it will have an effect because ideas, at least those of substance, aren’t part of the political process anymore to any degree that matters. Promote your values and hope that they’ll catch on but don’t act surprised when the power brokers ignore you in favor of some cheap pandering for votes.

    It seems the best thing would be for us to have parties that regularly go out of business… ok, the best thing would be to have parties that do what is in the best interest of the country rather than their power base. Even with honest disagreements about what those things are that are best for the country, without the institutionalized corruption and thickheaded inability of politicians to admit that their past policies have failed and need to change, we’d be much better off. Instead age old laws linger on for decades and decades, creating situations that were never envisioned and rewarding the entrenched interests who have come to make their livlihoods on the side effects of the policy that were never intended to come to be.

    Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that anything is going to happen to either party and quite frankly, I doubt any of the existing third parties would take very long to morph into the same corrupt institutions that the current two big parties have become. There seem to be many of the old timers in the LP would feel that people like Boortz and Barr prove that this has already happened.

    Political parties are about protecting power. They’re a legal officially blessed version of gangsters. The GOP, like the Dems, will do whatever it takes to get the votes. For the GOP if that means creating the prescription drug benefit that would make Marx proud, so be it. If it means pandering to America’s largest and fastest growing minority group, so be it. The main reason why Democrats are oppose these things is that they didn’t think of it first.

    We can talk all day about what the values of the parties should be and try to be noble and go down with the sinking ship, but the values that the parties claim to be for are just window dressing for the main value: obtaining power. There is nothing wrong with fighting the good fight but at the end of the day, don’t get upset with those who warned you of the reality of the situation… get mad at the situation itself.

    Let’s face it. Most of America sleepwalks through the political process and does very little research of more than shallow depth on the candidates. Our partisan friends tend to pick a candidate very early in the process. The rest of the time they’re engaged in the process is about reenforcing their already held beliefs. If they’d spend that time instead constantly evaluating the policies of their candidate and the opposition without prejustice, we might be able to get somewhere.

    As long as Americans as a whole refuse to put in the time, effort and brain power required for a participatory democracy to work, we’ll continue to have a system that rewards those who are best at raising money spent mostly on content free thirty second attack ads, bumper stickers, and yard signs. The fact that yard signs and bumper stickers, which tell you zero about a candidate have an actual effect is truly sad.

    The point of this extended rant is that despite what we wish the political parties would stand for, they stand for power at all costs and since that behavior is what gets reward, power for its own sake will continue to be their core value.

  31. Angie Montgomery says:

    What happeded to Bob Barr’s positions on abortion and same sex marriage? I can understand if the Libertarians are attracted to him based on his Patriot Act issues; however, on social issues, he has been extremely conservative and very anti-Libertarian platform. Where are the good candidates who do not stick their finger out to test the winds? Who honestly think their views are what America needs and stand by them…

  32. John Konop says:

    Angie Montgomery

    I saw Bob on C-Span and he is still pro-life, yet he thinks it is an issue that should be decided at the State level as well as gay marriage. I agree with him, also this is gut issue politics that have been used on both sides to avoid dealing with real issues.

  33. liberator says:

    McCain gutted the First Amendment with MCCain-Feinghold and therefore is not qualified to take an oath to “Preserve and defend the Constitution” Nor can Obama. McCain is with Obame on that nonsense known as Global Warming. Barr is the only choice for anybody who supports Liberty and the Constitution.

  34. John Konop says:

    Harry

    You are right, but I do not think Barr would be a problem with judges. In fact I would trust Bob’s judgment on judges over Obama or McCain. What do you think?

  35. SouthFultonGuy says:

    Entertaining the prospect of either Bob Barr or Ron Paul becoming president might make some feel good, either because they do not like the mainstream choices, but it is not going to happen folks.

    These sort of feel good symbolic exercises are more of a liberal trait and are not pragmatic however legitimate these guys platforms.

    One really has to wonder about Bob Barr’s judgment when he declares he is in this to win it. He’s either delusional or not operating with a full deck.

  36. IndyInjun says:

    South Fulton –

    If they destroy this country they will do it with your vote not mine.

    If the founders had had your attitude, we would still be a colony to Britain.

    George Washington could have said F***it, Cornwallis represents the greatest power on earth, we don’t stand a chance.

    If the French revolutionaries had had your attitude, Louie and Marie would have kept their heads and the people would have remained besieged instead of the Bastille.

    Instead of having our heads roll, isn’t it better to roll the dice???

  37. Jason Pye says:

    Actually, John, that was one of the questions brought up in the debate on Saturday. Barr said he would appoint libertarian judges. He named one name, someone no one from here has ever heard of.

  38. SouthFultonGuy says:

    IndyInjun,

    I do not recall going on the record about who or whether I was voting. I merely addressed the odds of either those two being elected president. We will see who is right in November….

  39. SouthFultonGuy says:

    IndyInjun,

    I do not recall going on the record about for who or whether I was voting. I merely addressed the odds of either those two being elected president. We will see who is right in November….

  40. Ronald Daniels says:

    Jason Pye,

    If I recall correctly Barr said he would nominate someone like Jim Gray; who I believe is the noted Libertarian Superior Court Judge in Orange County, California.

  41. Harry says:

    John K,

    John M’s judgment on judges will prove better than Obama’s …at least, that’s my hope.

  42. dorian says:

    What’s this guy’s position on late fees? I think I still have a copy of ‘Green Eggs and Ham’ checked out.

  43. Bill Simon says:

    Bob Barr is “in it” to generate MORE money for himself. That’s all.

    Bob Barr has a long-standing propensity to lie and defraud people of their money.

    For years after leaving Congress, he continued to mail out “I’m Bob Barr fighting the liberals in Congress, and I need your monetary help to keep the fight…”, all the while spending approximately 97% of the intake on “administrative costs.” Yeah. Bullshit-Bob is what he should become known as.

    Here’s the AJC story:

    http://www.ajc.com/health/content/news/stories/2008/05/19/barrpac_0518.html

    Bullshit-Bob’s quote is priceless:

    “I won’t be cross-examined” about the fund’s finances, he said. … “Fine, it doesn’t operate the way other PACs operate,” he said. “Next question.”

    Right, Bob…it operates with YOU sucking most of the money out under false pretenses.

  44. Bill Simon says:

    John,

    From the way you’re asking that question, I am presuming you are assuming that Bob Barr has a decent chance of actually getting elected?

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