56 responses so far ↓

• HollyJ // Apr 30, 2008 at 11:27 am

  

  Chatham County seems to be having that same problem. Or at least the Democrats in Chatham County are having that problem. After 28 years the DA is stepping down and some kid named Will Claiborne is trying to become the next DA only problem….he hasnt even been a lawyer for three years yet and for some reason the Dems leadership it seems are going to back this guy. They have him on thier website. I usually dont vote along party lines. But there is no way that I would vote for this guy in the primary if the GOP has a guy with over 20 years of experience….are candidates that scarce in South Georgia? I am glad that at lleast it seems to be an issue all over the place and not just in pockets of the states.

• Rogue109 // Apr 30, 2008 at 11:36 am

  

  HollyJ:

  The Chief Assistant District Attorney there, David Lock, is also running for Spencer Lawton’s office. Ignore political parties on this one and give Lock your vote. He is top notch and has decades of experience as a prosecutor in Chatham.

• Bill Simon // Apr 30, 2008 at 11:37 am

  

  So, this sounds like an opportunity for Victo Hill to make a move up, eh?

• Bill Simon // Apr 30, 2008 at 11:38 am

  

  Victor Hill (PP stole my “r”!)

• drjay // Apr 30, 2008 at 11:38 am

  

  there will be lots of dems in the chatham da race–zena mclain has qualified, a couple of others have said they are running but have not qualified yet-this seat only comes open every couple of decades so you can’t blame folks for giving it a shot-doug andrews rumors have been out there as well, the gop candidate david lock has been chief ada for several years now and is a great choice to succeed his almost former boss

• Obis_Sister // Apr 30, 2008 at 12:38 pm

  

  Evidently there is no experience required to run for public office in Clayton County either.

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 12:42 pm

  

  Rogue109

  Who said this job needs knowledge of the law?

• GOPeach here // Apr 30, 2008 at 12:42 pm

  

  Thank you Govroner Huckabee!!!!!!

  HE GETS IT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2008/04/30/news/local/27-huckabee.txt

• jsm // Apr 30, 2008 at 12:44 pm

  

  What’s a “Govroner?”

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 12:47 pm

  

  Jsm

  That is a term from Arkansas

  http://www.arkansas.gov/

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 pm

  

  I have an idea maybe we should pay based on experience and save money. We could let guys in law school do it free! Great resume builder.

• Groseclose // Apr 30, 2008 at 3:32 pm

  

  Under Article 6, Section 8, Paragraph 1.b, a district attorney must have been a member of the bar only 3 years prior to the date of his/her election. See also Secretary of State. Poythress v. Moses, 250 Ga. 452, 298 S.E.2d 480 (1983)

  Mulholland was admitted 10/29/01, elected on 11/02/04
  Caliborne was admitted 10/01/05, seeking to be elected on 11/04/08.
  Cleveland was admitted 11/01/05, seeking to be elected on 11/04/08.

  Seems that all three met/meet, though barely, the constitutionaly admittance requirement. So don’t blame them, blame the Georgia Constitution.

  The

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 pm

  

  No bar to low to become DA here!

• Rogue109 // Apr 30, 2008 at 4:06 pm

  

  Groseclose: Did anyone say that their candidacy was illegal? I’m just saying that they aren’t qualified.

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 4:09 pm

  

  Rogue109

  Thanks for clarifying the obvious!

• drjay // Apr 30, 2008 at 4:10 pm

  

  in a vacuum its probably a little tough to say that the guy that has been the DA for the past 4 years is not qualified to be the DA

• Groseclose // Apr 30, 2008 at 4:11 pm

  

  Rogue: You missed the point of my post. They ARE qualified, by the standards set by Georgia’s Constitution.

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 4:16 pm

  

  Groseclose

  I think that was the point of the post. I think it was clear that Rogue is right a change in the system would be a good idea.

• Groseclose // Apr 30, 2008 at 4:42 pm

  

  No, John, I don’t think that was the point of his post. I think he was lamenting the fact that no one with more experience would not run for the post, not lamenting the arguably minimal requirements of the DA post.

  And to your second point. I don’t think it is “clear that Rogue is right.” The way to fix the problem—if one exists–is by making DA and ADA salaries more commensurate with private practice attorneys. You can hardly expect a partner with 7+ years of experience to leave his comfortable private practice to take a $109,464 (approximately the average salary of a DA) job, with little chance of increase pay.

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 4:53 pm

  

  A DA and ADA gets a better health and retirement package in general than the private sector. Raising the pay without hire requirements does not make sense to me.

  I do know the issue of qualified people to become judges, DA, ADA…. is a real issue via pay. The problem is we have only so much tax dollars. Also mandatory sentencing has clogged the system up. Also we must find a better way to deal with the drug problem. Cobb is working on a innovative system to provide treatment for first time offenders, and it looks promising.

• Rogue109 // Apr 30, 2008 at 7:00 pm

  

  No, John, I don’t think that was the point of his post. I think he was lamenting the fact that no one with more experience would not run for the post, not lamenting the arguably minimal requirements of the DA post.

  Groseclose: Spot on assessment. This is an important position and that these newbie attorneys think they can handle it is a testament to their inexperience. Someone else said that since the DA in question has held the job for four years that he can’t be called inexperienced….I would respectfully differ on that point. Just because you haven’t been recalled doesn’t mean that you still aren’t incapable of doing the job right. Just look at the Clayton County School Board!

• billybob3 // Apr 30, 2008 at 7:40 pm

  

  I would argue that a guy who served as an ADA for three years and tried probably dozens upon dozens of cases (and saw how the office worked) would be more qualified than a guy who worked in private practice for 10 years doing corporate law . Just saying that the WAY you spend the three years makes a big difference.

• dorian // Apr 30, 2008 at 8:37 pm

  

  John, I don’t know quite how to put this, so. . . .you have absolutely, positively no idea what you are talking about. None. Not only does the salary stink, but the insurance stinks too. United Healthcare. You gotta be friggin kidding me. yea, I suppose it is good compared to someone with no insurance. Also, did you follow the legislative session? They hosed the retirement package for virtually all new state employees. Then again, if you have no retirement, hey it’s beautiful, but if you have a law degree - not so much.

• John Konop // Apr 30, 2008 at 8:41 pm

  

  dorian

  Business is about risk vs. return. Also in the private world profits matter.

• LTC // Apr 30, 2008 at 11:16 pm

  

  Bobby Kennedy became Attorney General. Obama is running for President. What’s the big deal?

• Bill Simon // Apr 30, 2008 at 11:37 pm

  

  Hm. Well, if history is any kind of indicator, President Obama’s future isn’t looking too bright…

• dorian // May 1, 2008 at 5:41 am

  

  Not the point John. You said the insurance and benefits were great. They aren’t, but here’s another axim for you: “You get what you pay for”.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 5:56 am

  

  dorian

  In the private sector many pay a large % of the health care cost. Many lawyers work for companies not large law firms.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 6:06 am

  

  Dorian

  PayScale.com said the average lawyer 10
  to 19 years experience is 106k a year.

  1 to 4 years experience is 64k

  http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2f_Lawyer/Salary

• dorian // May 1, 2008 at 6:07 am

  

  Uh huh, those folks at Kilpatrick Stockton are really, really hurting. I feel for them. I could just as easily say “many folks in the private sector are not hurting”. Wow me by next talking about howmuch better your anecdotal evidence is than mine.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 6:22 am

  

  dorian

  Many owners of companies like me require managers to check the going rate for jobs before we post them. How do you think we do it? BTW you can check by city.

• drjay // May 1, 2008 at 7:44 am

  

  i am now curious what the average amt. of exp is before one is elected da-as well as what kind of exp. it entails-not enough to look it up or anything but curious nonetheless

• drjay // May 1, 2008 at 7:47 am

  

  the nice thing about most of these positions (DA’s solicitor, judges, surveyors, etc…)is they are elected–so a minimal threshold is set and then its up to candidates to convince voters they are right for the job…

• Rogue109 // May 1, 2008 at 9:28 am

  

  Just to clarify, ya’ll know that per O.C.G.A. § 45-7-4 the base pay for District Attorney positions is $107,905.00, right? Plus, individual counties are permitted to pay additional supplements, if they so choose.

• dorian // May 1, 2008 at 10:06 am

  

  That’s super John. Only we were talking insurance and retirement. I doubt you even know the payscale for ADA’s.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 10:20 am

  

  dorian

  In the private sector most people pay a % of healthcare cost and have a 401k. I do not understand your point.

  Also many ADA’s know this is great trainng and use it to become trial lawyers. That training provides them with great jump in income in the future.

  BTW many of us do simular deals in business, in the early stage for less money knowing or hoping for the pay-off later. This is called risk vs. return.

• dorian // May 1, 2008 at 1:25 pm

  

  What a great philosophy John. Let’s use the district attorney’s office, the ones responsible for prosecuting murderers and rapists, as a training program for private sector attorneys. I feel safer already.

  And my point was that you are wrong that insurance and retirement are better for the state. You’re still wrong, btw.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 2:14 pm

  

  Dorian

  That is not a philosophy it is reality of what happens to many ADA. Do you know anything about trial lawyers?

• dorian // May 1, 2008 at 2:20 pm

  

  Apparently a lot more than you do. Stick with selling widgets champ. Looking up facts on websites in your free time hardly qualifies you as an expert.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 2:35 pm

  

  If you would use the internet ie google you would find out my father ia a successful trial lawyer out of Toledo. He has been on the most the major media via his cases.

  My father and his friends would recommend to law school that the ADA office is great place to get experience. This advice is rather common from experience successful trial lawyers.

  My father name is Alan Konop try google you might learn something.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 2:38 pm

  

  Sorry

  My father and his friends would recommend to law school students that a ADA job is great place to get experience.

• dorian // May 1, 2008 at 2:51 pm

  

  So they leave to get paid more and for better benefits somewhere else? Gee, we’re right back where we started. . .with me being right.

  I’m actually secure enough in myself that I don’t need to name drop or ride anyone else’s coat tails. It may actually surprise you that some people care about the world they live in and like to make a difference. Having to constantly train a never-ending string of amateurs because the job pays slightly more than one of those DOT workers you see standing by the side of the road is insulting.

  I hope you are never the victim of a crime, any crime, but particularly a serious one. That inexperienced ADA will be the one you count on for any sense of closure. Maybe it will make you all warm and fuzzy to know the defense attorney who left for more money and for better benefits used to be a prosecutor.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 3:28 pm

  

  Dorian

  If I was riding coattails why did I not go to law school and work for my dad? I was only pointing out that the DA office has been a great training ground which many lawyers used.

  This is not uncommon in business many of us did the same to get ahead in life.

  As far as benefits do you understand most people pay a large % unlike you. Do you also understand that 401k is not paid retirement program?

• Doug Deal // May 1, 2008 at 4:15 pm

  

  dorian,

  You really don’t know what you are talking about. ADA’s work under the supervision of the Sr ADA and the DA. It is not like they expect them to try murders the first day in the office.

• dorian // May 1, 2008 at 7:30 pm

  

  Please, enlighten me Doug. Would you? Cause I could really use the benefit of your expertise. DA’s run their offices differently with different levels of oversight. You think one DA can supervise multiple counties and/or courtrooms? Could you also please enlighten me what a senior ADA is exactly and what the ratio to “junior” ADA’s is? What does a senior ADA do? Do they get special training? More money?

  If you could just point me to the place in PAC’s bylaws that explains all this, I would be more than happy to admit I am wrong. Perhaps a code section? A rule?

  You have no idea, neither of you, of the reality of the situation. You sit there in your little leather chairs trying to sound like you know what the hell your talking about, but in reality to someone who does know, it’s like a kid playing dress up. This state needs quality, educated prosecutors. Not a program for recylcing to the private sector.

  Finally John, I don’t recall mentioning what I pay, but I will tell you this, if you ever did see me in a courtroom, it wouldn’t be at the prosecutor’s table.

• John Konop // May 1, 2008 at 8:03 pm

  

  dorian

  Is that a threat?

• dorian // May 2, 2008 at 8:41 am

  

  No, it means I’m not a prosecutor. We’re just debating dude. I don’t even know you. You could be 6′4 with a 400lb bench press. Jeez.

• dorian // May 2, 2008 at 8:47 am

  

  . . .though, if I ever did see you, in a courtroom or anywhere else, I may stick my tongue out at you. You can consider that a threat.

• Doug Deal // May 3, 2008 at 8:34 pm

  

  Dorian,

  You may be right. I am only familiar with the goings on in a handful of the larger judicial circuits, however those pretty much are run the same way, with a DA who usually has a senior ADA and a number of other ADAs.

• Bill Simon // May 4, 2008 at 11:37 am

  

  Dorian,

  You’re a pretty good prognosticator, actually. John Konop is about 6′1″ and can bench press 350 lbs and squats 485.

• bowersville // May 4, 2008 at 3:43 pm

  

  “bench press 350 lbs. and squats 485.”

  I’ll bet Trim didn’t know that when he was obnoxious to Konop’s son.

• dorian // May 5, 2008 at 6:15 am

  

  My apologies Doug. I can be rather overly-enthusiastic about certain issues, or as my wife likes to say “an insufferable a**”. I do have a stereotypical view of the successful/quasi-successful businessman who thinks their ability to pander widgets qualifies them as an expert on everything. In general, I find that these people end up in the legislative branch of government where they make a total mess of things. The ones that don’t. well. . .I only have two words. Ross Perot. Anyway, I am short, fat, and balding. I’ve also been told I waddle, so I don’t want to offend Tiny over there.

• Donkey Kong // May 5, 2008 at 10:33 am

  

  dorian,

  Konop was actually kicked out of the gym we used to go to. He broke too many bench press bars that they just couldn’t afford to keep him as a member. Poor guy. He has been relegated to benching his neighbor’s 1975 VW beetle instead.

• Doug Deal // May 6, 2008 at 9:55 am

  

  Dorian,

  No problem.

• jct // May 6, 2008 at 4:22 pm

  

  I think everyone admits that experience is a necessary element to the qualifications of a candidate. In my opinion, other vital elements are character, motivation and determination. With regard to experience, a simple review will show that Ryan Cleveland has close to three years working within the office he now seeks to run. He has seen firsthand the obstacles and the possibilities of the office, the position and the community. His trial record exceeds and rivals many of those in the civil arena that the commentators above call on for salvation. Most of the “commentary” on this blog focuses on this aspect alone. I don’t care to debate the system and whether it discourages or encourages any one of particular group of attorneys to its ranks. What I do care to debate is that anyone who knows Ryan Cleveland personally would have no doubt that he has no rival on the other necessary elements referenced above. No one can legitimately question his reasons for seeking this office. No one can legitimately question the manner in which he contributes to his community or cares for the integrity and role of the office of district attorney. No one can legitimately question the manner in which he has conducted himself during his time as an Assistant District Attorney. You may criticize his youth (and with that the energy and passion that walks hand in hand); however, if your concern is for the well being of the citizens of the South Georgia judicial circuit, your criticism undercuts that concern. I am not a resident of that judicial circuit (as I note neither are most of the “commentators” on this blog); however, I have family in that area. God forbid something were to happen to a member of my family, I have zero reservations that Ryan Cleveland is the person I want ensuring that my family member’s voice is heard and that those responsible account for their crimes.

• dorian // May 6, 2008 at 8:28 pm

  

  Don’t know him jct, so I can’t comment either way. DA’s are generally politicians in jurisdictions of any size. Generally, not always. Experience helps, though. Say, for example, you have a capital murder case. High profile by nature. No question the DA should be the prosecutor. Problem is the cases are mine fields. You have to know the unified appeal procedure, and you can’t mess up at all on anything - because it all goes all the way up. Say, for example, you forgot to file the victim impact statements, or didn’t know when they had to be submitted. Well, you just lost your chance to use them in the penalty phase. Anyway, like I said, I don’t know the guy.

  Donkey, it helps when, you know, you can’t google the person you are referring to. In contrast, I have a bodyguard named “Big Vito”. he is an italian jew who after serving in the Israeli Special Forces went on to get his black belt from the Gracie dojo, so “Phphphphpt!”