More on the gun bill

One of the commenters points out that the bill forbids the consumption of alcohol if you are carrying a fire arm. That’s common sense and at least gives me more hope that this thing was thought through somewhat carefully.

Likewise, as another commenter points out, I too believe more guns carried by law abiding citizens means less crime.

And the original comment linked to has a handy map that shows that most states actually allow you to carry guns restaurants. That makes me feel a little better about the issue, but I am still torn.

On the one hand, I think the old stories from the eighties and nineties with the guys shooting up the local fast food joint would have been severally diminished had someone in the restaurant been allowed a gun of their own. On the other, I suppose it is my natural fear of guns.

And I’ll admit it. I absolutely fear guns. I’ve known more than my fair share of people who were injured or killed or had kids injured or killed because of guns. All of them, though, were through improper handling.

I am, however, actively contemplating a shot gun for the house.

So I’m willing to cut gun owners slack on this issue. But I still really don’t see the need for it.

41 comments

  1. Harry says:

    With cost of living and unemployment statistics rapidly heating up, the rates of robberies, carjackings and home invasions are probably on the increase as well. We all should think about it.

  2. The best modern day defense is a strong neighborhood watch. Its all about communicating and knowing who belongs and who does not belong.

    Its not what your neighborhood watch can do for you, its what you can (but rarely) do for your neighborhood watch.

    church dismissed…

  3. mike316atl says:

    Do you think the police have any duty to protect you? Please you will be dead by the time you call 911. Why can’t we protect ourselves? Whats the big deal about law abiding citizens or good guys with guns? If a robber broke into your house what would you do? Bet you wish you had a gun then! Why do people call the police? Because they have guns! Cut the middle man out and save yourself. Criminals don’t give a d*** where they carry so why should we feel unsafe in these places? I know I feel unsafe on Marta with all the crazy lunatics riding the train.

  4. Bill Simon says:

    “The best modern day defense is a strong neighborhood watch. Its all about communicating and knowing who belongs and who does not belong.”

    Oh, puh-frigging-leeze!

  5. mike316atl says:

    “The best modern day defense is a strong neighborhood watch. Its all about communicating and knowing who belongs and who does not belong.”

    Oh, puh-frigging-leeze!

    Neighborhood watch? HA HA HA. U kidding right?

  6. Doug Deal says:

    Erick,

    I went to a safety seminar once a few years back. The police officer who gave the demonstration said that the best weapon for home defense is a shot gun. One because you don’t have to aim, which is hard under stress. But more importantly because a pump action shotgun has the added feature of having the international signal for “get out of my house” pre-installed, the distinctive sound it makes as you chamber the shell.

  7. bowersville says:

    A quiz.

    A pump action shotgun has the added feature of having the international signal…pre-installed, the distinctive sound it makes as you chamber the shell.

    A question.

    In order to chamber the shell, is the pump shotgun stored, yet handy, with the safety off and trigger pulled on an empty chamber with shells in the magazine?

    Or is the pump shotgun stored, yet handy, with the safety on with shells in the magazine?

  8. Redcatcher says:

    Having been given a free trip to Southeast Asia after college by the US government in 1969, I have had some experience with actually using a gun. Let me say first that even under a combat setting that popping the cap on someone is not easy. The first time you want to shoot them in the leg or somewhere like that to just disable them. Well folks it does not work like that. When you aim the thing you had better make sure they are not going to shoot back. I am a licensed to carry and I do on certain occasions, but I also have no doubts about what my intentions would be if I were confronted with a situation that required my using my weapon. I just think that many people say that could use a weapon, but could they really do it. It is not like a cowboy movie .

  9. jsm says:

    “I just think that many people say that could use a weapon, but could they really do it. It is not like a cowboy movie .”

    I hope to never need to use it. In most cases, the mere action of chambering a round and aiming at an intruder would cause him to leave. An intruder would have to want something pretty badly to be willing to engage in a gunfight for it.

  10. rugby fan says:

    Erick:

    If you have two people in a place with a gun, one is a criminal, one is a law abiding citizen, how do you know that the law abiding citizen’s aim will be true and won’t hit innocent bystanders?

    Should that happen and several more innocent people lose their lives because of that, does that mean gun ownership makes the world safer?

  11. heroV says:

    Under this bill does a restaurant owner still have the choice to prohibit guns on his property??????????????????

  12. Demonbeck says:

    rugby fan,

    I give you the evidence of virtually every movie ever made. Bad guys have bad aim and good guys don’t miss.

  13. rugby fan says:

    Good point Demonbeck. Plus two points.

    And Chick-fil-A is a wholesome restaurant, no ruffians would ever show up, what does Erick have to fear?

  14. Stephen C says:

    Rugby,

    What if the shot from the lawful gun owner misses but scares the other guy away as he thought he had a bunch of defenseless targets?

    We can play “what ifs” all day but it won’t prove anything.

  15. Old Vet says:

    Won’t the bad guys now just assume everyone is packing and be quicker on the trigger? Crimes are either of passion or property. Most of us would only be in danger of the latter. Bad guy brandished gun, hoping that you’ll just give him what he wants and let him get away. But if he assumes you’re packing, a movement could be misinterpreted and he shoots you “first” even if you were just reaching for your wallet. I’ve carried weapons and I’ve killed human beings. Neither is something to be taken lightly.

  16. jsm says:

    “Won’t the bad guys now just assume everyone is packing and be quicker on the trigger?”

    Probably not. Most “bad guys” prefer to prey on the weak which will not defend themselves.

  17. Demonbeck says:

    Thanks for the points rugby, but I am surprised I got none for my post on the Circle Jerking story.

  18. StevePerkins says:

    If you have two people in a place with a gun, one is a criminal, one is a law abiding citizen, how do you know that the law abiding citizen’s aim will be true and won’t hit innocent bystanders?

    Umm… and the homeower who’s being invaded ISN’T an innocent bystander?

    You’ve convinced me, Rugby. Homeowners should leave themselves at the mercy of home invaders, and take a bullet if necessary. Otherwise, somebody might get hurt!

  19. rugby fan says:

    Steve you miss my point.

    What I am referencing is that oft used scenario of the public place where someone comes in with a gun, you know the rest.

    You can neither prove nor disprove that having a patron of the restaurant would quickly and safely resolve the situation. Therefore, it does not strengthen the argument.

  20. boyreporter says:

    Old Vet has a really good point. When everyone is assumed to have a gun, why should a “bad guy” take a chance? Instead of trying to overpower or intimidate a victim, wouldn’t it be safer (and more cowardly, since that’s a hallmark of predators, too) to just shoot first and then grab the wallet, car, whatever? Proliferation and easy availability of guns is the problem. But of course, there are those who really, really, LOVE their guns, too…hmmm…sublimating, JSM et al?

  21. Jace Walden says:

    Rugby,

    You can neither prove nor disprove that having a patron of the restaurant armed would not quickly and safely resolve the situation. Therefore, your argument has no merit either.

    Since neither can be effectively and definitively proven or disproven, why not err on the side of freedom and property rights by letting the property owner decide whether or not he wants to allow guns on his property?

  22. Jace Walden says:

    And I don’t see letting a rampaging shooter pumping round after round into defenseless people as a way to promote the preservation of human life.

    Maybe you do though.

  23. bowersville says:

    I legally carry a concealed weapon.

    I hope everyone reading this will re-read Old Vets last sentence, Redcatcher’s last couple of sentences, Victor’s and “do you know that the law abiding citizen’s aim will be true” with an open mind.

    Despite the mythology discussed on the other thread, proficiency with a firearm demands time at the firing range and hopefully under an instructor if you have a fear or lack of familiarity of firearms.

    A pump shotgun, by it’s nature is dangerous for anyone and everyone not willing to put in the time for safety and proficiency. Despite prior opinions, I’m not willing to bet my life or my families that the ratchet sound will intimidate an intruder (re-read old vet and redcatcher).

    The typical pump shotgun of choice is a 12 gauge generally armed with OO buckshot. If you aren’t proficient enough to hit what you aim at, you could very well send 9 lead pellets through a sheet rock wall and into the occupants of an adjoining bedroom.

    If tomorrow no one remembers anything I said, think about this. When under the stress of an armed confrontation, you will be no better than your training. I’ve been there, no glory in it.

  24. bowersville says:

    BTW “improper handling” is sometimes referred to “accidental discharge.”

    There’s no such beast, only lack of safety. Or better, some untrained person stuck their finger in and pulled the trigger.

  25. Dave says:

    Store the shotgun with a round in the chamber and on safe. That way when you need it the only thing you do is click off the safety. Oh, but the bedwetters want us to store the ammo in another locked location. Fools!

  26. Doug Deal says:

    bower,

    All right, let us all be pacifists and cower in the presence on people trying to do us harm.

    You might not like a shotgun for home defense, but it is what virtually all experts recommend. i could list a 1,000 references to it online, but I will leave you with one.

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

    Sure buck shot penetrates walls, but you will only get a one wall with bird shot, and it will not likely be fatal to people in the next room.

    You know cars can also crash into others goign 50 mph if your brakes fail at a stop light, or you fall asleep at the wheel. Improperly chewed food can choke you if you swallow it too agressively. Out of 300,000,000 people, less than 800 people die a year from accidents involving guns (32,000 are killed intentionally), while 45,000 a year die in auto accidents.

  27. bowersville says:

    I have no problem with a shotgun. I am advocating proficiency and safety.

    Look at it this way. What does a backstop do at the baseball game. It stops the ball. On the other hand think about the armed intruder as the backstop. A well aimed proficient shot will be stopped by the intruder. Also consider how many flyers(Pellets not stopped by the intruder) you get at 10, 15 or 25 yds. How do you know unless you practice? Now think about the breadth and length of the rooms and hallways in a typical home.

    The key is training and practice and no I’m not advocating mandatory training by law.

    “let us all be pacifists and cower…” I got a laugh out of that one.

  28. fuzzysdad says:

    Here is a case for guns in a restaurant.
    2007 Indianapolis,Indiana bad guy walks in to K.F.C with gun to rob it. Customer with new concealed weapon permit.Draws his gun and stops the hold up.

  29. bowersville says:

    The mythology I referenced on the other thread was the attack on practice and proficiency as if it was some type of phallic thrill.

  30. Doug Deal says:

    Yeah, I agree with you that people should train themselves on anything they own, whether it be a can-opener or an ICBM. I suppose for me, knowing how to use things I buy is automatic, and I guess I give the average person too much credit in that regard.

    Really, I do not see me getting a weapon myself, but I do encourage others to arm themselves if that is what they want to do.

    Personally, I think that the best and first line of self-defence is the awareness of one’s surroundings, but sometimes that is just not enough.

  31. bowersville says:

    “the best and first line of self-defence is the awareness of one’s surroundings…” You have that right.

    You remind me, I drove out west in December of 07. Went up through Tupelo to Memphis and stopped at the Mississippi to watch the barge traffic.

    Saw what I percieved as a lookout and two thugs working that parking lot on Sunday morning. Shortly the Memphis Police arrived and arrested the two thugs for breaking into autos and the lookout drove away.

  32. Progressive Dem says:

    There is a direct correlation between the availability of guns and gun related deaths. It is pretty simple logic, in places where there are fewer guns, fewer people get shot. It is true in the US as well as other countries. Therefore a responsible public policy would discourage the use of firearms, and in particular pistols. Just because there is a “right to bear arms”, doesn’t mean it is a good public policy to encourage the use of guns.

  33. jsm says:

    “Just because there is a “right to bear arms”, doesn’t mean it is a good public policy to encourage the use of guns.”

    I agree. The government should not run ads encouraging people to buy guns.

  34. Good awareness in Memphis, Bowersville!

    Remind me to tell y’all the story about getting stalked by a thug to four locations in Macon on Election eve 2008, after i took photos of area gang graffiti that afternoon. After some creative driving and 911 on the cell phone, it ended without gunfire and the last i heard, he was in custody and is facing aggravated assault on a peace officer charges .

    Rest assured that for a while after that, i was self consciously packing a piece but Words and a Neighborhood Watch intervention were what ultimately led the series of ugly situations to a productive end.

    Study Georgia Code 16-15-1 thru 16-15-10 to help better understand how to deal with gangs and gang wannabees in your area. If they wanna act like a gang, treat them like a gang and throw the book at them. Some of these gang member pawns are as young as 10 & 11 years old.

  35. Romegaguy says:

    You should have to have a concealed permit if you are a lobbyist and you are carrying a beer bottle…

Comments are closed.