More on the Linder Endorsement of Huckabee

Steve Perkins is absolutely right:

John Linder formally endorsed Mitt Romney earlier this year, when Romney was the clear front runner. He then all but endorsed Fred Thompson in the summer, when Fred was the frontrunner for Georgia mindshare. Now that Huckabee is the Georgia front-runner, Linder is officially endorsing him.

What a complete joke of a flip-flopping COWARD. There are 27 responses in this thread so far, and not ONE person has pointed out what a hypocritical and unprincipled move this is? Good grief, Linder

184 comments

  1. drjay says:

    maybe linder had a heartfelt conversion–people change there mind from time to time–it is unfair to characterize every one of those instances a flip flopping…

  2. Jace Walden says:

    You’re right, just ask Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, Rudy Giuliani, and John Kerry.

    I love how Republicans tore John Kerry apart (and rightfully so) for his flip-flopping, but seem to be willing to jump through hoops to rationalize the flip-flopping of their top 3 candidates.

  3. Linder is not a “flip-flopping coward.” I’m not aware of him endorsing (or almost endorsing) Thompson, but people change endorsement all the time it doesn’t make them cowards.

    It’s no surprise Linder would support Huckabee given Huckabee is the only candidate running on the Fair Tax.

  4. Jace Walden says:

    Like I said Buzz, I love how Republicans were all over John Kerry (rightfully so) for flip-flopping, but seem to be willing to jump through hoops to justify the flip-flopping of Romney, Huckabee, Giuliani, and in this case, Linder.

  5. StevePerkins says:

    Buzz: I can Google up endorsement lists from the Romney camp published pre-summer, that show Linder did in fact formally endorse Mitt earlier this year. I can dig up Peach Pundit threads from just a few months ago, discussing remarks Linder made in public appearances where he distanced himself from Mitt and praised Thompson’s emerging candidacy. We now have a press release with an official Huckabee endorsement. Unless you want to dispute any of these facts and make me dig up the cites, then that’s somewhere between two and three endorsements in the span of a few months.

    Linder may not be a flip-flopper on the Fair Tax, and he’s pretty consistent in looking after chicken farmers… but it IS pretty clear that his Presidential race support simply belongs to whoever the front-runner is in Georgia in any given month.

    Generally, I agree with you that the “flip-flopper” label is thrown around too much, and that leaders shouldn’t be penalized for their views honestly evolving over time. However, two or three Presidential candidates over the course of just a few months? That’s enough “evolution” to make me support a theory of intelligent design.

  6. Doug Deal says:

    Buzz,

    I think it is fair to criticize politicians for flip-flopping on endorsements. If the original endorsement was so accurate and Romney was the best candidate, why the sudden change? The reason is obvious, the momentum is changing, and he now considers Huckabee legitimate.

    Perhaps if politicians were held more accountable for putting their “good” names behind a candidate, they would be more careful about doing so early.

  7. Chris says:

    His speech at the Gwinnett GOP county convention all but handed Thompson the straw poll. IIRC, Linder said (and I paraphrase), “None of the candidates are idea men, and it will take an idea man like Fred Thompson to win us back a majority”.

  8. GeorgiaValues says:

    Didn’t Jason Shepherd endorse Thompson (or help head up the Draft Fred Movement) and then switch to Huckabee? I don’t see anything wrong with switching.

  9. Mike Hauncho says:

    One of the main problems with moving primaries up so early is that you have to decide who you want to support well before the National Conventions. In doing so people like Huckabee and others might say or do things that impress you or turn you away. The best time for a person to switch support is during the primary. I think we would all agree that whoever wins the nomination will be supported by the party as a whole but this is the one time to pick the person you like best. There is nothing wrong with Linder switching support unless he is doing it just to be on the winning team. Why is it that the voters can change their mind throughout this process but elected officials cannot? If that were the case we would not need any polls after the first one was taken earlier in the year and candidates could svae all that money that they are spending trying to change your mind.

  10. JRM2016 says:

    I think that loyalty is a matter of character. Once an elected official endorses someone, they have publicly committed themselves to that candidate. Not just for one day or for one week but for the entire campaign. To the extent endorsements matter, it is because someone is willing to make such a commitment. Switching endorsements–I wouldn’t call it cowardly, but it sure tells me a lot about the person doing the switching.

  11. Bill Simon says:

    “Why is it that the voters can change their mind throughout this process but elected officials cannot?”

    Because elected officials make public pronouncements for candidates in order to make THEMSELVES look good and gain favor with other people.

    We activists tend to make our decisions quietly.

    John Linder may now say that he switched to Huckabee because of Huckabee’s support of the Fair Tax. But, the fact is Huckabee HAS been touting the FT for quite awhile, and if Linder had really wanted to support Huckabee due strictly to the FT, he would have done so before today…before news of Huckabee’s move up the Georgia polls.

    I wouldn’t call Linder a “coward,” but, I would call him merely a political opportunist.

  12. StevePerkins says:

    Mike Hauncho: I don’t completely disagree with you. I’ve just always thought of “endorsements” as meaning something a little more than “the direction I’m leaning in right now”. To me, there’s nothing wrong with a politician sharing what direction he’s leaning in, and changing his mind once a week if that’s really what’s going on in his heart. However, once you formally “endorse”… that should mean something, and it should take something serious to make you reconsider and change the endorsement. For example, if Huckabee had only recently come around to the FairTax idea… then I could see how would change the lay of the land and justify a switch. However, there’s no evidence that either of Linder’s two back-to-back switches were in response to anything more serious than the front-running changing in the polls.

    Buzz: I’m sorry if the word “coward” was too strong. What I meant was “opportunist who fears backing a candidate not already supported by the majority of voters in his district and who will change his position as many times as needed to maintain that equilibrium”. I was just going for something a little more concise.

  13. debbie0040 says:

    Why am I not suprised:

    Dear, RightMarch.com Supporter:

    Please find below a special message from our friends, the MinutemanHQ. They have some important information to share with you.

    Thank you.

    ============================================= Minuteman Civil Defense Corps Real Minutemen Do Not Endorse Huckabee ============================================= No National Minuteman Group has endorsed Mike Huckabee. One individual Minuteman has personally endorsed him. For the sake of clarity, it is important to note that the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (MCDC), the nation’s largest Minuteman organization, is a 501(C)4 non-profit organization and cannot and does not endorse any candidate for public office. MCDC is not associated with Mr. Jim Gilchrist, who today endorsed Mike Huckabee for president. Jim Gilchrist’s erstwhile Minuteman Project is itself an organization which by its own representations as a non-profit civic group cannot legally endorse candidates. It does not have any volunteers who observe illegal border activity. It has no border fence building projects. Jim Gilchrist here speaks only for Jim Gilchrist, he does not speak for the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, nor is he nationally representative of most patriots in the “Minuteman movement” – who under no circumstances could ignore the failed record nor endorse the duplicitous “plan” recently rolled out by candidate Mike Huckabee. The national media needs to recognize that Jim Gilchrist’s endorsement is his own personal statement, nothing more.

  14. John Konop says:

    Debbie,

    It is no secret that Chris and Jim split up at the MM. I know and like both of them. If you disagree with Jim on immigration and trade that is your right. And like all of us I am sure they have regrets on mistakes they have made. Yet anyone who has ever heard them or met them knows they are both clear on the relationship between trade deals like NAFTA and CAFTA and the flood of illegal immigration.

    They will both tell you that the driving force behind this issue is access to cheap tax payer subsidized labor. People like you can take all the cheap shots you want at them but they were at the front of educating people about this issue.

  15. Bill Simon says:

    John,

    None of what you said answered the question of why a supposed anti-illegal immigration activist threw his support behind a pro-illegal immigration candidate.

  16. Rpolitic says:

    Bill let us go way back to the crashing political campaign of one John Konop. If I am not mistaken Mr. Konop claimed the same type endorsement from Jim Gilchrist and the Minutemen. Then it was pointed out similarly as it has been here that it was not a real endorsement. So it makes perfect sense why John would avoid the question and instead stroke his self proclaimed “friend”.

  17. John Konop says:

    Bill,

    Huckabee has come out against the NAFTA/CAFTA trade deals. When you weigh that with his immigration record he has the strongest record other than Ron Paul of the front runners from both parties.

    The strongest records are from Tancredo and Hunter and both are not showing up in the polls. And they also voted against NAFTA/CAFTA because of the immigration issue as well as other problems with the deal.

    Debbie will post a score showing only immigration votes yet do they not include trade votes. The best example of the problem is Mexican truck driving issue via NAFTA.

    On March 29, 2007, Duncan Hunter was on Lou Dobbs to discuss the NAFTA Trucking Safety Act of 2007, which he had introduced earlier that day, in order to clarify and strengthen limitations imposed on Mexican trucking, in response to the outrageous rule changes from the DoT concerning Mexican trucking operating inside America.

    WATCH VIDEO

    http://theduncanhunterblog.com/index.php/2007/05/02/duncan-hunter-on-lou-dobbs-to-discuss-his-nafta-trucking-safety-act/

  18. John Konop says:

    Robert,

    The truth is I was endorsed by both in fact the PP ran a Post about the event when Chris made the public statement in Georgia. Erick never apologized for his original post that he got wrong about the endorsement.

  19. IndyInjun says:

    Coward is not too strong for Linder or any of the other GOPers in Congress who acted like Bush had rings through their noses in the process of increasing social spending 70%. In fact, coward is too friendly a term.

    Is Linder still calling himself fiscally conservative? If he is, add another ugly name……..LIAR.

    The FAIR????tax is not a conservative bill….it is straight out of K street, just as that wooden horse that fooled the Trojans.

  20. rugby_fan says:

    All Republicans need to stop worrying about the next election and wondering where the party will be in four or five years.

    I think, unlike after the 2004 elections, the Republicans will actually be–a national party no more.

    Just look at this sort of debate and soul searching the GOP is doing. There has never been such disarray and mistrust within a party before.

    Too bad for the Republicans this is happening just at the start of a realignment period.

    Might as well switch parties and hope to affect some change within the Democratic Party. It will probably be more effective than being a Republican.

  21. John Konop says:

    Indy

    I do think hybrid between the fair tax and a flat tax would work. It would lower the transaction %, eliminate all tax write offs a lobbyist killer, and tax underground money. Also the lower the cost to tax payers and expense of the IRS would go down via all the crazy lobbyist driven tax plans going away.

  22. Mark Rountree says:

    In fairness to John Linder, he has been the congressional leader on the Fair Tax. Between he and Boortz, they have made this a national issue.

    When he made those earlier statements, he assumed there was support from Romney and Thompson for the Fair Tax. Romney simply opposed, and Thompson refuses to endorse it.

    As a Fred Thompson supporter, I literally put a copy of the Fair Tax book in his hands and asked him to read it. Never heard about it again.

    Huckabee then jumped all over the Fair Tax, Linder’s signature issue. It’s hard to blame John for changing his support to Huckabee when Huckabee is the only major national candidate campaigning on it.

    I’m with Fred Thompson. But they mishandled the Fair Tax issue as a campaign issue. Conservatives are longing for a major overhaul of taxes, and whether its the Fair Tax or Flat Tax or major rate reductions, most of our national candidates are shying away from it.

  23. GOPeach says:

    Okay —

    WHO SAYS YOU CAN’T ENDORSE 2 ( two) PEOPLE!

    I like Peanut Butter AND Jelly!

    I like Peas AND Carrots!

    I like Pop Corn AND Coke!

    Maybe John Linder likes Mike AND Mitt!!

    What’s the BIG DEAL?????!!!!!!!!

  24. debbie0040 says:

    Huckabee’s immigration record is that supported the Senate Amnesty Bill and supported granting a path to citizenship for illegal aliens. Of course this was last year….

    He also fought a bill that would require that you would -have to show proof of citizenship in order to register to vote and would deny state benefits to illegal aliens.

    http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/01/28/News/316347.html
    Gov. Mike Huckabee Thursday denounced a bill by Sen. Jim Holt that would deny state benefits to illegal immigrants as un-Christian, un-American, irresponsible and anti-life … Senate Bill 206, filed Wednesday, also would require proof of citizenzhip to register to vote and would require state agencies to report suspected cases of people living in the country illegally … ‘Even if benefits to people who are in the U.S illegally could be stopped, ‘I don’t understand how a practicing Christian can turn his back on a child from this or any other state,’ Huckabee said … Huckabee said he took exception to characterization of immigrants in the bill and by its supporters as exploiters of social programs. ‘They pay sales taxes on their groceries,’ Huckabee said. ‘They pay fuel taxes. If they’re using a fake Social Security number, they’re paying Social Security taxes and will never receive any benefit … Something that’s not worth sharing is not worth celebrating,’ Huckabee said. ‘This is the kind of country that opens its doors. This bill expresses an un-American attitude.’ January 28, 2005; Arkansas News Bureau

  25. IndyInjun says:

    John Konop,

    The eastern European states have gone to a flat income tax with great results. The Europeans have a Value Added Tax in the high teens AND the income tax, but they have cradle-to-grave social insurance.

    This AM there was a hour long debate on CSoan and both experts were adamant on one point – NEITHER flat or sales tax works with the present level of spending without a rate in the stratosphere.

    The spending that Linder created wrecks his tax reform.

    Unlike the VAT and the sales taxes of the states the Fair????tax exempts business, making the scheme totally unworkable and making the rate too high for yet another reason. This exemption is straight out of K Street as is the $100 million that Fairtax org has spent hawking it.

    RON PAUL gets it….he has said all along that you cannot reform taxes and eliminate the IRS without redefining what the role of government ought to be. If we wish to have cradle-to-grave coverage and police the world, we are stuck.

    Only in the whacked out world of the GOP domination for 6 years can you run a $2.4 (Dems say $3.5) trillion war on a credit card from the Chinese without putting them at checkmate in the game they are winning.

  26. GOPeach says:

    INDY-

    The sad thing is… we are not in a “Constititional Republic” according to most politicians.

    Even Prez. Bush says we are a Democracy. NOT!!!

    Did everyone flippin SLEEP during Civics Class????

  27. Rpolitic says:

    Ok John so you were endorsed by the Minuetmen? Hmmmm, did they get investigated since they are a non profit. Below is the email and it is long but there are some interesting comments if you read the entire string.

    From: GA Minuteman CDC
    Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:17 PM
    To: undisclosed-recipients:
    Subject: Statement from Chris Simcox, MCDC Regarding Huckabee and Gilchrist

    Minutemen and Patriot Citizens:

    Below is a statement from Chris Simcox, President, Minuteman Civil Defense Corps concerning the endorsement of Mike Huckabee by Jim Gilchrist.

    Below Chris’ statement is my response to a fellow patriot concerning this issue.

    ————————————————————————————–
    Statement from Chris Simcox:

    http://forum.minutemanhq.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14893

    No National Minuteman Group has endorsed Mike Huckabee.

    One individual Minuteman has personally endorsed him.

    For the sake of clarity, it is important to note that the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (MCDC), the nation’s largest Minuteman organization, is a 501(C)4 non-profit organization and cannot and does not endorse any candidate for public office. MCDC is not associated with Mr. Jim Gilchrist, who today endorsed Mike Huckabee for president.

    Jim Gilchrist

  28. Bill Simon says:

    Mark,

    This an issue of timing for John Linder, not motive. Opportunistic timing. He would have helped Huckabee a lot more had he done it when Huckabee could have used it, not by coordinating his announcement with the announcement from the Huckabee campaign from (of all pollsters) Strategic Vision.

  29. Bill Simon says:

    Good for you, Robert. Now you’ve accomplished what you’ve long accused Konop of doing: writing long posts chock-full of hard to follow inserts from other people. The student has become the master. 🙂

  30. RuralDem says:

    Linder does come off as an opportunist. I wonder if another candidate such as McCain suddenly emerged as the front runner if Linder would suddenly endorse him? At the rate he’s going, we’ll be hearing about a “Linder endorses Keys!” press release.

    Anyway, Huckabee will be a formidable opponent to Democrats. I can see many moderate/conservative Democrats crossing over to vote for Huckabee if Hillary or Obama win the nomination. Some people dislike Huckabee’s down to earth populist style, but oh well, you can’t get support from everyone,well, unless you’re like Mitt Romney and stand for nothing.

    I know there are many politicians who flip flop, but Romney is the only one who I can honestly see going to a room of NARAL supporters and talking about how he supports their cause, and then five minutes later appear in front of the Right To Life crowd and championing their issues.

    How desperate can you get? All I can say is that I hope Edwards gets the nomination, but if he doesn’t and Huckabee does, then I would have no problem at all casting a vote for Huckabee.

    We need a uniter, not a divider.

    Edwards/Huckabee ’08 ! 🙂

  31. John Konop says:

    Robert Trim,

    All I know is Chris and Jim did a lot to educate people about the immigration issue. As far as the disputes between them and the organization I know very little other than what was reported.

    As I said no one can deny what they have done for the immigration movement. I am sure they have regrets about what they have done like all of us. I would think with your sorted past you would be the last to pass judgment.

  32. John Konop says:

    I also know and respect Todd Walker and he has been a tireless leader on this issue. As I said Hunter and Tancredo are the strongest on the issue.

    Yet among the front runners from both Parties with all of them other than Ron Paul being for NAFTA/CAFTA and or open borders it makes it hard choice because that has been the back door to get around immigration policy.

  33. debbie0040 says:

    Peach that is not a liberal newspaper. Get your facts straight. If you bother to read you will see that they have been very critical of Bill Clinton and even went so far as to calling him a left wing liberal crook. I will be more than happy to pull some of these articles up for you…

    Take Action To Defeat the New Shamnesty from Mike Huckabee!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Friends of ALIPAC,

    The Open Borders Lobby wants to influence the GOP Primary so that American voters will be locked into a choice between a Democrat or a Republican amnesty supporter. Of course they will all deny they support Amnesty, just like the Shamnesty bills of the US Senate we defeated this year.

    ALIPAC does not plan to endorse a candidate for President at this time. What we plan to do is to notify the nation about the immigration stances and records of the candidates to help you eliminate the bad amnesty apples from your consideration.

    We know that all of the Democratic candidates and McCain, Giuliani, and Huckabee will facilitate a Shamnesty if elected.

    Huckabee’s poll numbers are rising and should fall if the public finds out the truth on his stances! He is trying to trick Americans with his Shamnsty Plan and has even picked up the endorsement of Jim Gilchrist Co-Founder of the Minuteman Project. We know that many of you will be shocked by this.

    Please take the following actions immediately. We need a full ALIPAC Activist Deployment.

    Please visit this link and read the entire piece titled

    Mike Huckabee’s Shamnesty for Illegal Aliens!
    http://www.alipac.us/article2786.html

    Then you can post or read comments at this link.
    http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-93987.html

    We need you to forward this warning to every personal contact, campaign, and media source you can locate. We need you to call in on talk radio shows and get the word out!

    We also need you to post this article and links to this article on as many websites and Discussion Boards as you can!

    We can bring Mike Huckabee’s numbers down which will help all of the candidates that oppose SHAMNESTY like we do, to rise.

    Let’s Roll!

    The ALIPAC Team
    http://www.alipac.us

  34. Joy says:

    Have you seen Huckabee’s energy plan?
    “…talking about ways to reduce energy consumption and waste….we ought to declare that we will be free of energy consumption in this country within a decade, bold as that is.”
    It’s no wonder Linder is switching support. Not only is Huckabee talking up the fair tax, he’s also going to use his super powers to overcome the laws of physics.

  35. debbie0040 says:

    Peach this really sounds like that Arkansas newspaper is liberal. You should quit listening to excuse from the Huckabee campaign:

    http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st_07_14_04/huckabee4.html

    “Even that lying, liberal, no-good, cheating Bill Clinton has a better record on pardons and commutations than Huckabee. True, when young Clinton became governor in 1979, he did what Huckabee is doing now: In his first two-year term, Clinton went on a tear and commuted the sentences of 66 convicts and pardoned 72 others.”

  36. GOPeach says:

    Gov. Huckabee is being attacked because he is a threat to the establishment.

    So so so so typical. Those who have signed onto his campaign will not relent – at least those I know will not. They are loyal – not political. They knew this would happen and they are not surprised.

    Let me ask you something – Did Jesus pardon criminals?

  37. GOPeach says:

    PARDONS will not cause the base to loose heart-
    YOU will have to do better than that!!

    It’s like – The Trial Lawyer Fred is going to be tough on crime – Right?

    That dog won’t hunt folks!

  38. GOPeach says:

    December 10, 2007
    On December 10, the Drudge Report linked to an article in The Arkansas Leader titled, “Why parole a monster like Green.” Drudge links to the article as if it were a new story rather than an editorial 2004.

    The editorial by Gary Feldman fails to mention:

    –The Governor does not have the power to parole any prisoner. That responsibility lies with the parole board.

    –The only action that Governor Huckabee took was to file a notice of intent to commute Glen Green’s sentence.

    –The commutation would have reduced Green’s sentence to 181 years, 10 months, and 19 days.

    –After the 30-day public hearing period ended, Governor Huckabee decided against commuting Green’s sentence.

  39. debbie0040 says:

    What about all the commutations he made? He put pressure on the Parole Board. Huckabee is the one spinning things.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071210/ap_po/huckabee_clemencies

    Some inmates who benefited from some sort of personal connection:

    _James Maxwell, who killed a pastor of the Church of God in Arkansas. Maxwell worked at the Governor’s Mansion when Huckabee announced his intent to reduce his prison sentence.

    _Samuel W. Taylor, convicted on a drug charge. A prosecutor said the man had told him Taylor’s sister had gone to school with Huckabee. Huckabee said the sister didn’t influence the decision. Taylor subsequently was arrested on another drug charge.

    _Donald W. Clark, convicted of theft. Huckabee’s pastor recommended leniency for Clark, whose stepmother worked on Huckabee’s gubernatorial staff.

    _Robert A. Arnold Jr., who was convicted of killing his father-in-law. Arnold’s father, a former mayor of Hope, Huckabee’s hometown, said he was a casual friend of the governor.

    _A pastor who promoted Huckabee among blacks urged the governor to grant clemency to John Henry Claiborne, who was sentenced to 100 years for a 1994 armed robbery, according to a 2004 report in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. Huckabee made Claiborne eligible for parole after receiving a letter from the Rev. Charles Williams, who told the newspaper he had helped win “many, many” clemencies from Huckabee.

    _Denver Witham, convicted of beating a man to death with a lead pipe at bar, had his sentence commuted by Huckabee. The action drew the ire of prosecutors who speculated that Huckabee’s act of clemency was related to Witham, who was lead singer in a prison band, being a fellow musician.

    Huckabee has repeatedly faced criticism from prosecutors over his clemency policies. And in 2002, Ashley Stevens, the 1984 rape victim, joined Angela McCoy, the daughter of the Rev. Billy Price Bennett who was shot to death in 1979 by James Maxwell, to campaign against Huckabee’s re-election.

    “I just thought that the power of executive clemency was being exercised on the wrong folks,” said Pulaski County Prosecutor Larry Jegley, a Democrat who also campaigned against Huckabee.

    As for DuMond, the convicted rapist initially was sentenced to life plus 20 years for his conviction in the 1984 rape of Stevens when she was a teenager, but Tucker reduced the sentence to 39 1/2 years, making DuMond eligible for parole.

    While Huckabee told reporters last week that DuMond’s file was waiting for him when he took office, his interest in the case started two years earlier after he met with DuMond’s wife, Dusty. When he took office, she contacted Huckabee again. “He said if he was ever in a position to look into it he would try to remember it,” Dusty DuMond said in a 1996 interview with The Associated Press.

    Stevens met with Huckabee and his staff in 1996 to discuss his intent to grant clemency.

    “I could tell he had already made up his mind,” Stevens told the AP last week.

    Huckabee argues that it was Tucker’s decision to reduce DuMond’s sentence that made him eligible for parole, and he maintains he had little

  40. shep1975 says:

    Yes, I did help head up the draft effort for Fred and then last week switched to Huckabee. I also did go through a period in between where I wasn’t going to actively support any of the candidates and take a “wait and see” approach.

    My wife has been a Huckabee supporter from the get-go and that kind of lobbying is hard to ignore.

    No one walks into a car lot, sees a car they think looks good and says, “I’ll take that one!” pays cash and drives off. You shop around. You take a test drive. You do research. If they allow it, you may do an overnight test drive. Some times you end up buying the car. Other times you say, “this really isn’t what I was looking for.” and you take it back and keep looking.

    The draft effort was about seeing what kind of candidate Fred Thompson would make. He still has a great record and great policy statements. He is what he has always been, a real conservative.

    Huckabee is a little more populist, but he’s by no means a liberal.

    By the way, keep re-publishing letter from the Minutemen talking about how they are a 501(c)4 and can’t endorse, then proceeds to slam Huckabee. That opposition is just as threatening to their non-profit status as an endorsement would be.

  41. debbie0040 says:

    Shep, your comments “By the way, keep re-publishing letter from the Minutemen talking about how they are a 501(c)4 and can

  42. dcraigwhite says:

    What continues to amaze me is the fact that despite these attacks, many of which hold no merit, Huck’s numbers in the polls continue to rise.

    I had a theory, which I applied to Ron Paul, concerning his relevancy and whether or not he should be included in further debates. The same theory could be applied to Hunter and Tancredo. The theory was this: these candidates don’t have a legitimate shot at a top 4 finish in any state. Furthermore, were they ever to assume “front-runner” status, the increased scrutiny from the media, conservative pundits, and the voters themselves would counteract any leads they may have gained in early polls. I found this to be especially true of Ron Paul, and probably would have said the same of Mike Huckabee up until now. Huck’s gone from virtual nobody to superstar overnight, now leads the GOP field in Iowa, Georgia, South Carolina, Michigan, North Carolina, and Delaware, while moving into second in Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Despite the constant attacks Huck’s surge has only gained momentum. This rise has completely shot my theory.

    Intellectual honesty would be appreciated, as would humor, but what in your mind (the PP collective) is sustaining this rise?

  43. debbie0040 says:

    Jason, is right. There were people in the draft Fred movement that just wanted him to get in the race and give voters another choice and see what Fred had to say.

  44. Bill Simon says:

    And, what exactly are Populist Huckabee’s “policies,” Shep?

    You probably still think Bush isn’t a socialist, so I’m not entirely sure you know what truly makes someone “lberal” or not.

  45. GOPeach says:

    Welcome Aboard Shep!

    We have a little scuffle on our hands but this storm shall blow over soon enough when the ” Fred Folks” get their turn…

    They will reap what they sow.

  46. debbie0040 says:

    Eagle Forum on Huckabee:

    http://www.spectator.org/blogger.asp?BlogID=9824

    NEW HAMPSHIRE NEA TO ENDORSE CLINTON AND HUCKABEE. This is the first time NH NEA, a 16,000 member affiliate of the NEA, has endorsed a presidential candidate for the Republican primary. He was the only Republican candidate to address the NEA at its national convention last July. Arkansas Eagle leader Betsy Hagan wasn

  47. GOPeach says:

    Well now-

    That is easy to sit back and hiss and booo but honestly EVERYONE know the Public Education System is a lost cause anyway.

    Tax Payers should not have to educate kids – Parents should!

  48. GOPeach says:

    Mike Huckanbee Endorsments:

    Dr. Jerry Jenkins, best-selling author, including the Left Behind series; Colorado (Jerry Jenkins is one of the biggest names in Christian publishing)

    Zig Ziglar, Author and motivational speaker; Texas

    Star Parker, Founder and president of CURE;* Washington D.C.

    Karen Testerman, Founder and Executive Director of the Cornerstone Policy Research;* New Hampshire

    Michael Farris, Chair of Home School Legal Defense Association* and Chancellor of Patrick Henry College;* Virginia (This is a great endorsement because homeschooling families are among the best grassroots supporters a candidate can have because they are typically very active in their churches and communities)

    Rev. Keith Butler, Founding Pastor of Word of Faith International Christian Center Church;* Michigan

    Thomas Glessner, attorney, author, and Founder/President of the National Institute of Family and Life Advocates;* Virginia

    William J. Murray, Chair of Religious Freedom Coalition,* Chair of Government is Not God PAC,* and author; Washington D.C.

    Randy Alcorn, Founder and Director of Eternal Perspective Ministries,* best-selling author of 28 books, fiction and nonfiction; Oregon

    Dr. Ronnie Floyd, Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church of Springdale* and The Church at Pinnacle Hills */ Former President of the Pastor

  49. GOPeach says:

    What about FRED THOMPSON’S key presidential campaign advisers – Phil Martin????

    You know one of the 4 canpaign co-chairs who lent FRED his plane to fly into COBB COUNTY?

    The Washington Post reported that Phil Martin posted a guilty plea in 1979 for selling 11 pounds of marijuana and a no contest plea in 1983 for cocaine trafficking and conspiracy.

    Looks like FRED needs some new friends!!!!

  50. Bill Simon says:

    Here’s a very interesting point I just read about the Fair Tax that I doubt too many pro-FT are aware of: The loss of the rate advantage available to state and local government in issuing tax-exempt bonds would increase the costs of state and local government and would require increases in state and local taxes.

    Do you understand what this means? It means our local tax burdens will increase because the vehicle of tax-exempt bonds to finance growth will disappear.

    If anyone wishes to understand more about the TRUE effects of the FT, here’s a link to the most comprehensive, non-politico, non-emotional analysis of the FT I’ve ever read:

    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/HankAdler/2007/11/22/a_hard_look_at_the_fair_tax&Comments=true

  51. GOPeach says:

    Debbie-

    There was no traction THEN, because Fred thought he had it in the bag. Things can back fire you know.

    Ever heard of heating up left overs?

  52. GOPeach says:

    Bill –

    Have you met Mike Huckabee?
    Then you do not know how intellegent he is!

    My husband & I had dinner with he and Janet about 3 years ago and I was very impressed and so was my brilliant husband – summa cume laude Cornell and Jewish.

  53. GOPeach says:

    Bill-

    Mormons believe these things about God:

    1. That He has not always been the Supreme Being of the universe, but attained that status through righteous living and persistent effort. They believe God the Father has a

  54. GOPeach says:

    Also Mormons are polytheistic, believing in many gods.

    A good Mormon man will one day become a god as well (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie p. 643. Also, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 346).

    Mormons believe that Jesus Christ has a brother whose name is Satan (The Gospel Through The Ages, p. 15).

    The Mormon does not believe in an eternal hell. There are, however, three levels of heaven; the highest level, the celestial, is the attainment of godhood for the worthy Mormon (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:133-34, Doctrine and Covenants 76:112, D&C 76:71-80, 2 Nephi 31:17-21, D&C 131:1-4; 132, 3 Nephi 27:19-21).

    The God of this earth has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22). God is also a polygamist in that he has several goddess wives (Doctrine and Covenants 132: 61-62).

    The Mormon Church is the only true church. All other churches are an abomination to God (Joseph Smith, 2:19 in The Pearl of Great Price). Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, was responsible for restoring true Christianity to mankind, thereby making him equal to Jesus (History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-409).

    Salvation by God

  55. GOPeach says:

    I have Mormon friends and they are very nice people – some of the nicest in fact.

    And they have a right to drink pig blood according to the US Constitution – it’s just… well… I get pretty creeped out when I think …..God commits adultery.

    That is a stretch.

  56. rugby_fan says:

    “There was no traction THEN, because Fred thought he had it in the bag. Things can back fire you know”

    The only time Fred(…) was the frontrunner was when he wasn’t in the race.

    Maybe Huckabee is smart, I don’t know.

    GOPeach, this kind of runs counter to what was, without a doubt, a serious tete-a-tete you had three years ago with the governor.

    “On Dec. 4, for instance, he was asked about the National Intelligence Estimate released the day before, which found that Iran had suspended its nuclear weapons program in 2003. Huckabee said that he hadn

  57. Bill Simon says:

    Peach,

    I’m always fascinated how one group of religious believers acts as though THEIR religions must be the right one.

    Muslims believe they are correct…
    Mormons believe they are correct…
    Buddhists believe they are correct…
    Christians believe they MUST be correct…

    The dogma exhibited by each of these sects is so high and deep, everyone should be issued a pair od ever-expanding waders to protect themselves.

  58. Nate says:

    GoPeach, you have yet to provide any evidence on policy as to why conservatives should back Huck. I made the challenge yesterday for someone to provide me policy reason why Huck is a conservative and I am still waiting. I don’t care how many pastors endorse him. I don’t care about fluffy sound-bites. What will he do about illegal immigration? What will he do about entitlement programs? How will he handle Iran and Terrorism? What is view on the role of government? What makes him a conservative? I am still waiting……..

  59. debbie0040 says:

    Peach, I would support Mormon Mitt Romney any day of the week over Southern Baptist Mike Huckabee.

    The last two Southern Baptists that were elected President were Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. That is enough for me, thank you…

  60. GOPeach says:

    Debbie-

    Maybe we need to run every Southern Baptist out of office! That would be great – wouldn’t it!

    The we could get rid of Casey Cagle and Sonny Perdue also!

  61. GOPeach says:

    Nate –

    I did not see your question – Sorry …
    Here are reasons Huckabee is a Fiscal Conservative:

    Energy:

    # The first thing I will do as President is send Congress my comprehensive plan for energy independence. We will achieve energy independence by the end of my second term.
    # Achieving energy independence is vital to achieving success both in the war on terror and in globalization. Energy independence will help guarantee both our safety and our prosperity.
    # We have to explore, we have to conserve, and we have to pursue all avenues of alternative energy: nuclear, wind, solar, hydrogen, clean coal, biodiesel, and biomass.

    Security:

    1. Build the Fence

    * Ensure that an interlocking surveillance camera system is installed along the border by July 1, 2010.
    * Ensure that the border fence construction is completed by July 1, 2010.

    2. Increase Border Patrol

    * Increase the number of border patrol agents.
    * Fully support all law enforcement personnel tasked with enforcing immigration law.

    3. Prevent Amnesty

    * Policies that promote or tolerate amnesty will be rejected.
    * Propose to provide all illegal immigrants a 120-day window to register with the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services and leave the country. Those who register and return to their home country will face no penalty if they later apply to immigrate or visit; those who do not return home will be, when caught, barred from future reentry for a period of 10 years.

    4. Enforce the Law on Employers

    * Employment is the chief draw for most illegal immigrants and denying them jobs is the centerpiece of an attrition strategy.
    * Impose steep fines and penalties on employers that violate the law.
    * Institute a universal, mandatory citizenship verification system as part of the normal hiring process.
    * Prevent the IRS and the Social Security Administration from accepting fraudulent Social Security numbers or numbers that don’t match the employees’ names.*

    5. Establish an Economic Border

    * Move toward passage of the FairTax.
    * The FairTax provides an extra layer of security by creating an economic disincentive to immigrate to the U.S. illegally.

    6. Empower Local Authorities

    * Promote better cooperation on enforcement by supporting legislative measures such as the CLEAR Act, which aims to systematize the relationship between local law and federal immigration officials.
    * Encourage immigration-law training for police. Local authorities must be provided the tools, training, and funding they need so local police can turn illegal immigrants over to the federal authorities.

    7. Ensure Document Security

    * End exemptions for Mexicans and Canadians to the US-VISIT program, which tracks the arrival and departure of foreign visitors. Since these countries account for the vast majority of foreigners coming here (85 percent), such a policy clearly violates Congress’ intent in mandating this check-in/check-out system.
    * Reject Mexico’s “matricula consular” card, which functions as an illegal-immigrant identification card.

    8. Discourage Dual Citizenship

    * Inform foreign governments when their former citizens become naturalized U.S. citizens.
    * Impose civil and/or criminal penalties on American citizens who illegitimately use their dual status (e.g., using a foreign passport, voting in elections in both a foreign country and the U.S.).

    9. Modernize the Process of Legal Immigration

    * Eliminate the visa lottery system and the admission category for adult brothers and sisters of U.S. citizens.
    * Increase visas for highly-skilled and highly-educated applicants.
    * Expedite processing for those who serve honorably in the U.S. Armed Forces.
    * Improve our immigration process so that those patiently and responsibly seeking to come here legally will not have to wait decades to share in the American dream. Governor Huckabee has always been grateful to live in a country that people are trying to break into, rather than break out of.

  62. GOPeach says:

    Gov. Huckabee supports the FAIR TAX!

    As Gov. of ARKANSAS – he cut taxes and fees almost 100 times, saving the taxpayers almost $380 million. He left a surplus of nearly $850 million, which he urged should go back to the people.

    * Our massive deficit is not due to Americans’ being under-taxed, but to the government’s over-spending.

    * To control spending, he believes the President should have the line-item veto.

    * He believes fair trade.

    This is very different that just FREE trade. FAIR trade allows the US to by low and sell high!

    Gov. Huckabee says:
    ” I’d like you to join me at the best “Going Out of Business” sale I can imagine – one held by the Internal Revenue Service. Am I running for president to shut down the federal government? Not exactly. But I am running to completely eliminate all federal income and payroll taxes. And I do mean all – personal federal, corporate federal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment. All our hours filling out forms, all our payments for help with those forms, all our shopping bags filled with disorganized receipts, all our headaches and heartburn from tax stress will vanish. Instead we will have the FairTax, a simple tax based on wealth. When the FairTax becomes law, it will be like waving a magic wand releasing us from pain and unfairness.”

    The FairTax will replace the Internal Revenue Code with a consumption tax, like the taxes on retail sales forty-five states and the District of Columbia have now. All of us will get a monthly rebate that will reimburse us for taxes on purchases up to the poverty line, so that we’re not taxed on necessities. That means people below the poverty line won’t be taxed at all. We’ll be taxed on what we decide to buy, not what we happen to earn. We won’t be taxed on what we choose to save or the interest those savings earn. The tax will apply only to new goods, so we can reduce our taxes further by buying a used car or computer.

    Our current progressive tax system penalizes us for working harder and becoming more successful. As we climb the ladder, the government lurks on each rung, hungry for a bigger bite out of our earnings. The FairTax is also progressive, but it doesn’t punish the American dream of success, or the old-fashioned virtues of hard work and thrift, it rewards and encourages them. The FairTax isn’t intended to raise any more or less money for the federal government to spend – it is revenue neutral.

    Expert analyses have shown that the FairTax lowers the lifetime tax burden of all of us: single or married; working or retired; rich, poor or middle class.

    The FairTax will instantly make American products 12 to 25% more competitive because the cost of those goods will no longer be inflated by corporate taxes, costs of tax compliance, and Social Security matching payments. When we buy products now, those taxes are built into the cost, so all of us pay corporate taxes indirectly on top of the personal taxes we pay directly. Compliance costs are just make-work with no real added value, yet they consume as much as 3% of our gross domestic product annually. These costs are an especially heavy burden on small businesses, which generate most of our jobs.

    If you buy a bottle of domestic wine, you’re paying the taxes/compliance/matching payments of all the folks who produced the grapes, the wine, the bottle, the cork, the label. If you buy a bottle of French wine, the producers had their Value Added Tax rebated to them when the wine was exported. So French consumers pay those taxes, but you don’t. Our current tax system puts our goods at a disadvantage both here and overseas. Other governments give their goods an advantage on the world market, an advantage estimated at 18% compared to American goods.

    So no matter how hard Americans work, no matter how innovative and creative we are, no matter how superior our products are, we suffer from a built-in competitive disadvantage simply because of our tax system. A recent study by MIT found that our tax system deprives us of about $1 billion in exports annually. When you export over-priced goods as we have, you inevitably end up exporting jobs and industries as we now are. We are the square peg trying to fit into the round hole of international trade. The rest of the world isn’t going to change, it’s time that we do.

    Under the FairTax, American companies are far less likely to move overseas and foreign companies are far more likely to come here, hiring Americans to build and work in their new plants. The FairTax encourages growth by promoting investment and capital formation.

    We have to scrap a 20th century tax system that is holding us back and keeping us down in the 21st century. The FairTax is the path to greater prosperity and job security for us and for our children.

    As Governor of Arkansas, he pushed through the Arkansas Legislature the first major, broad-based tax cuts in state history – a $90 million tax relief package for Arkansas families. He also doubled the standard deduction to $2,000 for single taxpayers and $4,000 for those who are married. Some taxes he eliminated entirely: the marriage penalty, bracket creep caused by inflation, income tax on poor families, and capital gains on home sales. To encourage investment, he cut capital gains for both individuals and businesses. To help people better themselves, he provided tax credits for employee training and education. In total, he cut taxes and fees nearly 100 times during my ten-and-a-half years as Governor, saving the people of Arkansas almost $380 million.

    When he left office in early 2007, Arkansas had nearly $850 million in state surplus, which he urged should go back to the people in the form of either a tax rebate or tax cut.

    Gov. Huckabee believes that our massive deficit is not due to Americans’ being under-taxed, but due to the federal government’s over-spending. Achieving and maintaining a balanced federal budget is an important and worthy goal necessary to our long-term economic well-being. To achieve a balanced federal budget, he believes the President should have the line-item veto.

    He believes in free trade, but it has to be fair trade. We are losing jobs because of an unlevel, unfair trading arena that has to be fixed. Behind the statistics, there are real families and real lives and real pain. He is running for President because he doesn’t want people who have worked loyally for a company for twenty or thirty years to walk in one morning and be handed a pink slip and be told, “I’m sorry, but everything you spent your life working for is no longer here.”

    THAT IS A CONSERVATIVE FOLKS!!!

  63. Nate says:

    GoPeach,
    1) What about entitlement programs? Thompson is the only one talking about this or has a plan.
    2) What about government spending and the role of Government?
    3) Huck says he wants to be tough on immigration, but he wants driver licenses for illegal, and in-state tuition and supported Kennedy/McCain/Bush amnesty plan.
    4) What about foreign policy? He says he would do the same thing that Oboma would do, sit down and talk with that lunatic in Iran.
    5) Education? Huck is real big on the NEA. If he likes and supports the NEA, what is his view on the role of government? More government seems to be his solution to every thing.

    I love the FairTax and I love Jesus. I want a president who loves those things but also is a conservative and loves the constitution.

  64. Jason Pye says:

    As Gov. of ARKANSAS – he cut taxes and fees almost 100 times, saving the taxpayers almost $380 million.

    The “tax cuts” aren’t what he is portraying them to be:

    The Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration found that 90 tax cuts were enacted in legislative sessions from 1997 through 2005, while Huckabee was governor, and those cuts reduced tax revenues by $378 million. But Huckabee fails to mention the 21 tax increases that occurred under his watch and that raised revenues by substantially more. The total net tax increase under Huckabee’s tenure was an estimated $505.1 million, says the Department of Finance and Administration’s Whitney McLaughlin, adding that the figure has been adjusted for inflation.

    The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette combed through a list of those 90 tax cuts, finding that a number of them pertained to very specific taxes and relatively small amounts. (We asked the Huckabee campaign for its tax tally, but we didn’t get a response.) The newspaper does give Huckabee credit for spearheading “one of the largest tax cuts in Arkansas history,” an income-tax cut that amounted to $90.6 million in one year alone.

    The tax burden under Mike Huckabee increased by 43%.

    Actually, Jace…the number is 47%.

    He left a surplus of nearly $850 million, which he urged should go back to the people.

    He also added $1 billion in new bond debt, which negates any “surplus” that Arkansas had.

    Gov. Huckabee believes that our massive deficit is not due to Americans

  65. GOPeach says:

    Nate-

    Better Nate than Lever!

    I just had to say that –

    No- seriously I hear your heart.

    You have some good points. I loathe the NEA…
    I LOATHE them. That are wicked! This is why my kids NEVER went to government school.

  66. Jace Walden says:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/huckabees_fiscal_record.html

    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6724

    http://www.nwanews.com/adg/national/203850/

    GOPeach,

    It’s been confirmed multiple times by multiple sources. For the record, I gained a tremendous amount of respect for you after Paul Broun won. He is quickly becoming one of my favorite Congressmen. I gained even more when I found out you support Ron Paul.

    That’s why I’m honestly dumbfounded that you would even consider supporting Huckabee.

    Other than being anti-abortion, Huckabee has NOTHING in common with Broun or Paul. He’s a fiscal liberal posing as something else. I sincerely hope you’ll see this eventually. Thanks.

  67. Jace Walden says:

    Before I get piled on, I realize that Paul Broun is staunchly socially conservative.

    What a lot of the So-Cons out there don’t understand is that us small “L” libertarians can and will gladly support a So-Con if he/she is just as staunchly fiscally conservative.

    I don’t think I speak for all small “L” libertarians, but a lot of us believe that you can’t have any type of true liberty if you don’t first have economic liberty.

  68. IndyInjun says:

    Peach,

    The Fair????tax is a CON job being hawked by a con artist.

    It is the biggest deception I have ever encountered in reviewing tax legislation and in politics and that is saying a LOT.

    Hucksterbee needs to ask Max Burns about campaigning on it, for the last I saw ole Max he was running from it as if it were the Devil personified, but it overtook him with fatal result.

    If Barrow could do that much damage, just IMAGINE what the DNC will do with the resources they have.

  69. Bill Simon says:

    One thing the FT backers aren’t talking about is what happens if some of the states refuse to work for the federal government? That means there WILL be a federal entity much like the IRS to suck money from people on an individual basis within eany state that doesn’t particpate in the collection of FT taxes.

  70. GOPeach says:

    Jace-

    Paul Broun and Ron Paul are VERY much alike!

    You tell me how we can mover Ron Paul up ahead of Mike Huckabee and I’m in….

    Until now… who do we have?????? See what I mean.

  71. debbie0040 says:

    Peach I guess you support amnesty for illegals since you love Mike.

    Huckabee’s current plan calls for touchback then amnesty.

    http://www.alipac.us/article2786.html
    Mike Huckabee is now experiencing a surge in the polls as GOP core voters continue to abandon John McCain and Rudy Giuliani for their pro Amnesty pro illegal alien records and stances. This is bringing Huckabee’s immigration stances into the limelight for scrutiny and his campaign is fully aware that missteps on this issue can send him back down the ladder like McCain and Giuliani.

    That is why his campaign has released the “The Secure America Plan” which details his 9-point plan to facilitate the “enforcement of our immigration laws and results in the attrition of the illegal immigrant population”

    This is exactly what America wants to hear, America wants to hear about reducing the number or illegal aliens in America. Americans want illegal aliens to return to their home nations as current law dictates!

    However, there is a big problem with Huckabee’s plan. While most of the provisions will be positively received by the American public, especially voters, his promises to crack down on employers, build a fence, and bolster the border patrol are all nullified by positions number 3 and 9.

    Huckabee makes it clear that illegal aliens will have to leave the U.S. However, what he is advocating is the ‘touch back’ provision which was a trick fielded by the supporters of the failed “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” amnesty bills in the U.S. Senate this year.

    In position #9, Huckabee says he would increase visas and expedite immigration processes so “those patiently and responsibly seeking to come here legally will not have to wait decades to share in the American Dream”

    Such changes would clearly increase legal immigration levels, which already stand at 1.4 million per year, making America the most generous nation in the world for legal immigration. The majority of the American public, while generally supportive of legal immigrants, is in no mood for such a massive expansion of legal immigration levels considering the intense public backlash against illegal immigration.

    Huckabee’s intent to expedite legal immigration ties into the real problem with his plan. This is revealed in item #3, where he would grant amnesty to illegal aliens by having them sign up with the government and then leave the U.S. for a day or two and later on pick up new documents across the border to walk back in and say “Look at me! I came in legally this time!”

    What a devilish farce! Millions of illegal aliens in America would quickly have no fear of immigration law enforcement and would be on the “path to citizenship” receiving benefits at the taxpayers

  72. debbie0040 says:

    Great Article by Peggy Noonan:

    Would Reagan survive in today’s GOP?
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010988

    Christian conservatives have been rising, most recently, for 30 years in national politics, since they helped elect Jimmy Carter. They care about the religious faith of their leaders, and their interest is legitimate. Faith is a shaping force. Lincoln got grilled on it. But there is a sense in Iowa now that faith has been heightened as a determining factor in how to vote, that such things as executive ability, professional history, temperament, character, political philosophy and professed stands are secondary, tertiary.

    But they are not, and cannot be. They are central. Things seem to be getting out of kilter, with the emphasis shifting too far.

    The great question: Does it make Mr. Huckabee, does it seal his rise, that he has acted in such a manner? Or does it damage him? Republicans on the ground in Iowa and elsewhere will decide that. And in the deciding they may be deciding more than one man’s future. They may be deciding if Republicans are becoming a different kind of party.

    I wonder if our old friend Ronald Reagan could rise in this party, this environment. Not a regular churchgoer, said he experienced God riding his horse at the ranch, divorced, relaxed about the faiths of his friends and aides, or about its absence. He was a believing Christian, but he spent his adulthood in relativist Hollywood, and had a father who belonged to what some saw, and even see, as the Catholic cult. I’m just not sure he’d be pure enough to make it in this party. I’m not sure he’d be considered good enough.

  73. debbie0040 says:

    http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12439

    Read the entire article, but I have post some excerpts:

    Fred Ain’t Dead
    By Quin Hillyer
    Published 12/14/2007 12:08:42 AM
    Memo to readers: With his superb performance in Wednesday’s debate in Iowa, Fred Thompson has made a monkey out of me. By early afternoon on Tuesday, the column that appears below, one which posits that Thompson’s presidential campaign might still find a way to win, was ready in exactly the form it appears here. But I thought the column would still remain exactly on target throughout the week, so (for various reasons) I aimed for a Friday release. At the time, I thought that until Thompson began his Iowa bus tour on Monday the 17th, my contention that he “ain’t dead” yet would seem noteworthy for its boldness. Then Thompson ruined it all by so clearly running away with the laurels in Wednesday’s debate — and in particularly Reaganesque fashion. Just as Reagan did at the famous Nashua, N.H. debate in 1980, Thompson used the unfairness of the debate moderator as a foil in a way that justly earned the candidate plaudits as a no-nonsense kind of guy. Now everybody is taking a second look at Thompson’s chances. Deservedly so.

    Thompson could also remind people of how another conservative actor with a maddeningly languid early campaign pace, Ronald Reagan in 1979-80, allowed the elder George Bush to grab the “Big Mo”mentum from him — before just a few weeks of earnest, person-to-person campaigning by Reagan stopped Bush cold.

    The Thompson-Reagan comparison has been made far too often, but in one respect the likeness is valid: Just as Thompson appears to do today, Reagan had a notable tendency to coast along until seriously challenged. Reagan, though, could turn on his jets just in time for maximum impact. Can Thompson do likewise? Thompson plans a rigorous 15-day bus tour through Iowa before the caucuses there, and seems confident in his retail campaigning abilities.

  74. Jace Walden says:

    GOPeach,

    Honestly I would love to hear how Paul and Huckabee are alike, besides the issue of abortion.

    What do you have to say for Huck’s 47% increase in the tax burden during his tenure as Governor? I gave you three links. Did you just ignore them? Here they are again:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/huckabees_fiscal_record.html

    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6724

    http://www.nwanews.com/adg/national/203850/

    I don’t see how you can even CONSIDER supporting Mike Huckabee if you’re a fan of Ron Paul or you’re a fiscal conservative. Huckabee is a big-liberal.

    If it weren’t for his stance on abortion, he’d be welcomed with open arms into the Democratic party.

  75. shep1975 says:

    I will arise from being mired in Civil Procedure studying t note only that Reagan had 20 years of national face time to go over his conservative credentials. From the GE Theater he hosted to the McCarthy hearings he testified in, on to Goldwater’s nomination in 1964, his own race for Gov. of CA, his failed bid in 1976 against Ford and finally, 1980, Reagan campaigned for a generation, mostly on a national stage, before he became President.

    Peggy knows better than to ask a question that stupid.

    Okay, back to Civ. Pro.

  76. jsm says:

    This, to me, demonstrates the glaring problem within the GOP today. Too many people switched to the Republican Party because of social issues alone–gun control, abortion, military prowess, etc. These people didn’t leave their FDR entitlement culture behind them. They like their government-funded freebies too much to take a stand for fiscal restraint.

    As a result, we have a host of elected officials who are trying to balance tax cuts and their resulting revenue increases with the spending required to keep lazy, greedy, and uninformed “Republican” voters behind them. Until we get into the R voters’ living rooms and find a way to teach them (via the TV their glued to) that entitlements cost them more than they benefit them, I don’t anticipate much change.

    Most R voters I talk to know nothing about Huckleberry’s record on taxes or immigration. They just like him because he “sounds like a Christian ‘n everythang.”

  77. Doug Deal says:

    jsm,

    I agree with you, but I would not include gun control on that list. Most pro-gun people seem to subscribe to the whole leave me alone philosophy. The biggest culprit is the second issue you mentioned, abortion.

    As long as the Republican party has become the National Anti-Abortion and Nothing Else Party, don’t expect fiscal restraint to ever be an issue it champions.

  78. SFrazier says:

    Thompson is at 7% nationaly, he is cooked!!!! Huckabee is our only choice. Poor Ralph Reed, no one will hire him or trust him after his Mormon disaster.

  79. SFrazier says:

    Yeah, the fair tax is so liberal…. No one is buying your crap Bill. That is why the Huck has taken the lead. He is the peoples choice and that just kills the corrupt conservative media led by the disgraced Ralph Reed that obviously influences your ” I can’t think for myself” little mind.

  80. Jason Pye says:

    Bill is absolutely right.

    Huckabee has taken the lead because no one knows him beyond what they’ve seen in the debates, and what they’ve seen in the debate is a guy who never mentions his record in Arkansas as a tax-and-spend liberal.

    Sixteen Democrats received a higher fiscal policy grade than Huckabee in 2006, including Jennifer Granholm (Michigan) and Rod Blagojevich (Illinois), two of the most liberal governors, in terms of fiscal policy, in the country. Both received a “D.” Huckabee received an “F.”

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa581/reportcard_table.html
    http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/11/updated_huckabee_white_paper.php
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316496,00.html
    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/huckabees_fiscal_record.html

    As far as the social conservatism goes, he is an authoritarian. He called gays a “public health threat” and wanted to “isolate” AIDS patients.

    I’ll pass on Tax Hike Mike…and if for some reason he is the GOP nominee, I’ll vote for the Democrat.

  81. debbie0040 says:

    Huckabee has played it smart this election. He knows his record would be a major issue so he went after the support of one issue groups that don’t care about anything else other than their one issue . IE: Pro Life Evangelicals, Fair Tax

  82. debbie0040 says:

    Sfrazier, you are a fool to count out Thompson now…. This time in 2004 Howard Dean was the presumptive nominee for the Democrats….

    What are you talking about Ralph Reed and his Mormon disaster? Most Reed people went with both Giuliani or Romney.

    I would support any of the other GOP candidates before I would support Huckabee.. Huckabee would be a disaster…

  83. Bill Simon says:

    SFrazier,

    You’re 22 years old. I’ll overlook your inherent ignorance of simple math since you cannot help yourself.

    Here’s the clearest proof that the Fair Tax is a sham: Linder and Boortz do not tell you that it is actually a 30% sales tax on goods and services rather than the hundreds of pages they devote to promoting it to be a “23% tax.”

    Want proof? Here it is:

    Claim #1 from Fair Tax: Price of a $100 item under the current system will still cost $100 after the Fair Tax is implemented.

    This claim is based on the presumption that the current $100 price is really comprised of 23% federal payroll taxes already paid and 77% is other costs and profit. Let’s see how the math works:

    23% of $100 = $23.00 = Embedded Federal Taxes

    $100.00 – $23.00 = $77.00 = What true (claimed) price would be under Fair Tax.

    Can you apply a 23% Sales Tax to a $77.00 item to reach $100.00 after FT? Let’s see:

    Does (1 + 0.23)*$77.00 = $100? NO, it equals $94.71

    What is the real percentage of federal sales tax that must be applied in order to reach $100? Let’s do the math:

    (1 + X) = $100/$77.00 = 1.29870
    X = 0.2987 = 29.87%

    The actual “federal sales tax” applied to every dollar will be 29.87%, or, rounded-up, 30%! in the post-Fair Tax world.

    Why is Boortz not telling you the truth in his book? Because I doubt he knows simple algebra, and/or, he presumes you don’t either.

  84. TrueConservative says:

    Whatever….. Christians are taking back our party and that just erks pagans like Bill and false converts like Debbie. Stay true to your beliefs Sean, God will reward you.

  85. Bill Simon says:

    “Christians are taking back our party.”

    Wow. And, yet, you have the audacity to use the moniker “True Conservative.”

    It was the “Christians” who elected Bush, and have owned the party for those 6 years to date.

    How does one “take back” that which they already own?

    What a fascinating concept.

  86. Bill Simon says:

    Jason,

    TC’s concept of God is a lot like Al-Quadia’s concept: They need to act as God’s agents who play the combined role of judge and executioner, all in one.

  87. TrueConservative says:

    Jesus said ” you will no my people by there actions”. Huckabee is the only true Christian in the race. So the logical conclusion is any Christian supporting anyone else is putting his desires before God. Completely unnaceptable in the eyes of God. And somthing that only a false convert would subscribe to.

  88. TrueConservative says:

    Jesus tells us tha it is better to tie a rope around your neck with a millstone and jump in the deepest sea, than it is to mislead a Christian. As you put your selfish desires before God and lie about Mike so that you can promote your candidate you are doing just that. Shame on you.

  89. Jason Pye says:

    Huckabee is the only true Christian in the race.

    Again you are casting judgment when it is not your place to do so.

    So you are saying that not supporting Mike Huckabee is a sinful act?

    People using Christ’s name or religion to promote politics is pathetic. I want my candidate to cut taxes, cut spending and reform entitlements…not to lead us into revival. It’s not the President job. Read the Constitution if you need a clearer understanding of the role of the Presidency.

    The shame is on you. What kind of witness are you being by calling people sinners and casting judgment on people you don’t know? You owe Bill, Debbie and myself an apology.

  90. Bill Simon says:

    “Jesus tells us that it is better to tie a rope around your neck with a millstone and jump in the deepest sea, than it is to mislead a Christian. “

    Really? There was no “Christianity” in Jesus’s time, thus no “Chrisians” either. So this appears to be an impossible quote to attribute to Jesus.

    But, I wouldn’t expect anything less from a false follower of the religion.

    “TrueConservative” is such a large contradiction that one can only imagine the battles TC has in his/her head about reality.

  91. rugby_fan says:

    “Jesus said ‘you will no [sic] my people by there [sic] actions'”.

    I believe he also said something like “make sure you know the difference between ‘there’, ‘their’, and ‘they’re'”.

    Will have to check later in the day but I am fairly confident there was something from Jesus about if you speak for me, spell basic words correctly.

  92. TrueConservative says:

    I think Jason by is mistaken by demanding a litmus test of free trade to determine conservative credentials. Seems to me like Conservatism is a political philosophy which attempts to preserve the status quo or those aspects of the past that are worth conserving and that it includes forms of other ideologies which are almost subsets within a broader conservative philosophy, which includes populism, protectionism and economic neoliberalism.

  93. TrueConservative says:

    Huckabee is for free trade as long as it is fair trade. Just like Reagan was, remember Harley Davidson.

  94. TrueConservative says:

    Profanity is not the answer Jason. The truth, that is the answer. He’s the best communicator/debator of the group. He is not soft on immigration, he opposed Bush’s amnesty plan, & supports building a fence & deporting illegals who commit serious crimes. He understands the unconventional nature of the War on Terror & the Islamo-fascist threat we’re facing around the world. He has a solid conservative record of lowering taxes & favors eliminating income tax & adopting the FAIR TAX instead. He’s also a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment, & he’s never wavered on his pro-life and traditional family values. Mike also has great ideas about energy independence, improving education & health & fitness.

  95. GOPeach says:

    Nobody explained FAIR TRADE better than my old friend, ” C-Biscuit” !!!!

    FAIR TRADE –
    by Dr. Cindye Coates
    Business & Economics

    Not much is fair about free trade.

    Tax consequences are far less for foreign countries.

    There is a big difference between “Fair Trade” and “Free Trade”. Free Trade means that China and others pay substantially less in taxes to do business in the U.S. than American companies.

    It means they are free to use the strength of the dollar to close our manufacturing facilities and put millions of workers out of work. It means they are free to ignore patent and trademark laws and protections.

    Free trade means that China and others are free to ignore the environment and dump toxins into the water and air which soon will affect our air and weather and eventually our coasts. And free trade means foreign competitors are free to disregard trade agreements by closing their countries to U.S. products.

    “Fair trade”, on the other hand, would equalize the tax burdens of our domestic producers and competing imports. It would price the dollar at its fair trade value. It would enforce trademark, patent, and environmental laws and enforce trade agreements.

    Fair trade would reward those companies that innovate, cut costs and invest in productivity. Fair Trade would achieve all the goals that Free Trade advocates espouse.

    Until we ensure Free Trade is also Fair Trade, we are putting our economic future in peril.

    Change is needed soon.

    Structural changes are happening to our economy that will be impossible to reverse unless something is done soon. Our manufacturing is fleeing this country and relocating overseas. In the last two years, 2,000,000 manufacturing jobs were lost in this country leading to 6 million lost jobs in the service sector.

    Most startling is how fast this erosion is accelerating. The world wide web, our open borders, and transportation advances around the world have made it very easy for U.S. manufacturers to outsource overseas. It is cheaper to cut costs by importing rather than investing in manufacturing improvements at home.

    Economists scream, “Uncle” at the word tariff. But without adequate tariffs, our tax system discriminates against our domestic producers.

    As an example: for the year 2000, it was calculated the amount of taxes employers and suppliers paid in the form of FICA (employer and employee), federal and state withholding, and corporate income taxes. These taxes totaled 30% of sales. That means , 30% of every sales dollar went to our federal and state governments in the form of taxes. If the same tool was imported from China, our federal government only collected 3.1% of the sale in the form of a tariff.

    It is ludicrous that an imported tool only contributes 3.1% in taxes for the protection of our legal system and commercial codes, and the privilege of using our economic system, while our domestic producers pay around 30%!

    Tariffs needed

    In 2001 my employer

  96. GOPeach says:

    In “Basic Economics: A Citizen’s Guide to the Economy,” economist Thomas Sowell says, “At any given time, a protective tariff or other import restriction may provide immediate relief to a particular industry and thus gain the financial and political support of corporations and labor unions in that industry. But, like many political benefits, it comes at the expense of others who may not be as organized, as visible, or as vocal. Economists have long blamed the international trade restrictions around the world for needlessly prolonging the worldwide depression of the 1930s. Economists, however, do not have many votes. Nor do many of the voters know much economics.”

  97. TrueConservative says:

    Huckabee believes in free trade, but it has to be fair trade. We are losing jobs because of an unlevel, unfair trading arena that has to be fixed. Behind the statistics, there are real families and real lives and real pain.
    Huckabee wants to prevent people who have worked loyally for a company for twenty or thirty years to walk in one morning and be handed a pink slip and be told, “I’m sorry, but everything you spent your life working for is no longer here.”

  98. IndyInjun says:

    One cannot believe Hucksterbee, so there is no point whatsoever reading his positions on anything. He is another George W. Bush.

  99. IndyInjun says:

    In no way, shape, or form is Hucksterbee another Reagan, who united a grand coalition of religious right, fiscal conservatives, independents, libertarians, and constitutionalists.

    Huckabee drives all of these groups away, except for the religious right, who hates abortion but loves lying, stealing, corrupt politians who appeal in the name of the Lord.

    He is the worst kind of deceiver and charlatan who sends folks who study the issues and candidate’s backgrounds fleeing in horror.

    If we conservatives cannot not save the party behind the most honest, principled man in the race RON PAUL, then the next best thing is to see it to its extinction behind Hucksterbee, so perhaps you supporters of him will be of some use after all.

  100. TrueConservative says:

    He is just not another Reagan, he is better. His record as governor is far more conservative than Reagans was as governor. He is as effective as Reagan was as a communicator +++, more conservatively fiscaly (fair tax), A little smarter than Reagan, and his wife Janet is first class.

  101. IndyInjun says:

    The Fair???tax has been exposed ten times over here on Peachpundit as a grand deception that grants the corporations $trillions in FOREGIVENESS of back taxes, while putting a 30% tax on Grandma’s nursing home care.

    It is not the kind of thing honorable people try to sell, for it is a con job in every sense of the word.

    Some of y’all have a strange definition of “FAIR”

    When Taxabee’s rivals start the exposing of this idiocy, he will turn tail on it like he has done on everything else.

  102. TrueConservative says:

    Oh don’t let those lying foul mouthed lawyers fool you( they no nothing about economics and little about life). The fair tax will fix our economy in many ways. Tax lawyers just don’t want you to believe that. Just like immigration layers need illegal immigrants to stay in business. So the moral of the story is, never vote for a lawyer.

  103. IndyInjun says:

    I have worked in sales taxation for more than 20 years and in 17 states. I have not worked in income taxation in 15 years. The Fair???tax is a scam.

    I won’t even bother refuting the propaganda posted above. You guys are cultists, like the Moonies.

    Go ahead and run on it.

    The DNC will thank you for it.

    I can’t lose, for if it passes I am going to be laughing all the way to the bank, while the poor fools who thought they would get a tax savings are ruined.

    In the words of Eastwood….go ahead and make my day.

  104. rugby_fan says:

    “He is as effective as Reagan was as a communicator +++, more conservatively fiscaly (fair tax), A little smarter than Reagan”

    I am going to disagree on all those points.

    First, Reagan managed to convey hope and change, whereas Huckabee just conveys vote for me. So he is not a great communicator.

    Second, the Fair Tax is not conservative. A conservative tax policy can rest on lower taxes not on some convoluted tax policy.

    Third, while I disagree with a lot of what Reagan did, he was brilliant (if we ignore his foreign policy he was even smarter). And I say that as someone who disagrees with Reagan quite often. Huckabee is not dumb but he certainly is not a brilliant leader.

  105. debbie0040 says:

    True Conservative, who in the hell are you to judge who is a true Christian or not? You and others like you might as well say “we are the Borg and we will assimilate you. Resistance is futile”.

    My Dad preached the gospel for over 35 years and he does not like Huckabee. My Dad supports Thompson. He thinks Huckabee is a false prophet spoke about in the Bible. (Wolves in sheeps clothing) I guess he is not true Christian because he does not support Huckabee.

    You can take your true Christian crap and shove it up your rear!!! What a hypocrite!! I guess you forgot about that verse in the Bible that talks about judge not lest ye be judged.

    Huckabee lied or embellished the truth about his Theology degree to make a political point. He is no different than Bill Clinton…

    Huckabee is nothing like Reagan. I don’t recall Reagan letting murders and rapists out of prison . I don’t recall Reagan overseeing a 550 million dollar net tax increase. I don’t recall Reagan letting 1033 criminals out of prison. This was more than the Governors of six states combined. I don’t recall Reagan being deceitful about his record…

    Huckabee gets that “deer in the headlights” look when confronted with his recrod…

  106. debbie0040 says:

    Huckabee is using his Christianity to get elected. He knows he will face tough scrutiny on his record so he has nothing else to fall back on other than the fact he touts his religion and he is a good speaker..

  107. debbie0040 says:

    What is the truth in God’s word? Is my father who preached the gospel for 35 years not a true Christian because he sees through Huckabee’s deceptions and does not support him?

    For you to say that true Christians support the Huckster is way off base.

  108. rugby_fan says:

    TrueConservative:

    I believe you said “all Catholics support Huckabee”.

    I don’t, my family doesn’t, I am sure that neither Joe Biden nor Bill Richardson do, same for Nancy Pelosi, Rudy Giuliani, you know I really could go on, but I think I’ve proved my point.

    At any rate, Catholics are Christians.

  109. While the thread has evolved into religion, one of my professors in college (he was a hoot Dr. David Smith), when there was a section of serious debate with varying opinion he would always say “pay your money make your choice” the end his lecture quoting 1st John, My little Children, love one another. He was pretty cool. Some food for thought.

  110. debbie0040 says:

    So, Maurice are you saying that true Christians support Huckabee and Huckabee is the only true Christian in the race?

  111. debbie0040 says:

    True Conservative inferred that and I was reacting to that. I guess you feel like it is ok for him to make those type statements but we are not supposed to respond to it. Didn’t see you criticize his statements.

  112. No Debbie I am not suggesting or promoting that idea at all. I felt the response, while meaningful, was hilarious. Its probably because I can just see you typing that. Perhaps it was the visual.

    I really didn’t read his statements. I just saw your response, probably cause I know who you are.

    Really, its pretty interesting the amount of emotion and allegiance people have to their candidate. While I’m supporting Huckabee, I have no clue who the man is, never meant him. I don’t have the same allegiance I had to the last race, although I’ll certainly help out.

    Merry Christmas Debbie, you’re one of the people every campaign wants to have, you work and spread the work for your guy. There’s nothing wrong with that.

  113. jsm says:

    TrueCon, you’re making Christians look like fools. We cannot change this Nation’s moral views through government. Instead, we must use the brains God gave us to elect people who will maintain the God-given freedoms that we enjoy here.

    Maintaining moral social principles is the job of the church and Christians in general. Backing a candidate solely based on his moral stance will eventually endanger the freedom we enjoy to have churches in this Nation.

    Say all you want about what Huckleberry “believes in” or “will do.” The fact is that his record is NOT conservative on fiscal issues or immigration issues. I’m more interested in his record.

    “Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD”-Ps. 33:12

    It doesn’t say, “the politician whose God is the LORD.”

    Didn’t you say something about standing up for the truth of God’s Word?

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