This is not related in any way to Georgia politics, but I just have to share this one.
As some of you are aware, over at RedState we banned new Ron Paul supporters from the site. We still let them come, but the requirement is they engage the community and participate for a while without shilling for Ron, before they say they are voting for Ron Paul.
We’ve run into a problem in the past month where you could have a post up about a television show and, next thing you know, the comments were nothing but
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Sadly Erick,
As kookie as these kooks are, there are plenty of kooks supporting the other candidates as well. These are private emails, so the fact that the language is a little rough cannot be compared to a public forum where such language will get you banned.
Go back in time and look at what George W. Bush supporters did on similar political sites like Free Republic. (Or what is currently done on Red State with Fred detractors). To them, everything is a conspiracy and everyone’s motives are linked to some organized campaign, not to personal preference.
Perhaps Doug, but his supporters are the only ones who ever comment or post about Zionist conspiracies.
Even the anti-Romney people rarely post about Mormonism. Perhaps they just have a better inner-monologue.
Can I ask why you banned Paul supporters?
From my post above:
These people kill me. They act like they’re committing this big, brave act, “standing up” to the “authoritarian” Bush administration who wants to “ban freedom of speech.”
I’ve lived in other countries with authoritarian rule, China being one of them. Trust me, true bravery is standing in front of a tank and refusing to let it pass.
The beauty of our country is that these people ARE NOT being silenced; if anything their megaphone gets BIGGER every year with new communications technology coming out all the time. Try making comments like the ones you find on MoveOn.org and other liberal sites in China, or Iran. In those countries, dissidents vanish and are never heard from again.
Slapping on stupid costumes and blocking the entrances to government buildings doesn’t make you brave, not in a free society like ours. It just makes you annoying.
You wanna be brave? You want to stand up to authoritarian dictatorships? Fly your asses to China, set up shop on Tiananmen Square, and start waving around “Free Tibet” signs. We’ll see how brave you are when the soldiers come running at you.
Maybe I’ve been too hard on Erick. I’ve never understood where in the world he’s coming from with the “Ron Paul is an anti-Semite” crap… but then again I don’t get hundreds of emails every day from crazy bloggers (and you’re ALL crazy), ranting and raving about various such matters.
That said, I still don’t see how the behavior of a few such people smears the candidate. Ron Paul is pretty much the only Republican in the field making the (extremely valid) point that Israel is a nuclear power and should shoulder more of the responsiblity for its own national security. That has nothing to do with “anti-Semitism”, and the only reason an anti-Semite would have for getting behind Paul is because he would be “the lesser of all evils” from their perspective. By Erick’s logic, however, all Republicans are racist and sexist… because racist and sexist bigots see the GOP as the lesser of two evils vs. the Democrats.
Erick is free to do what he wishes with his own website, just as I’m free to find it a boring echo-chamber and not bother visiting. However, banning discussion of a candidate outright, rather than just enforcing a policy of deleting hate speech, makes him look like a complete buffoon… and speaks poorly about the current state of the party. The current “wandering through the wilderness” will continue until the GOP finds something principled to talk about other than Iraq, and finds some way to bring economic conservatives back under the umbrella after taking them for granted over the past decade. This sort of attitude is a step backwards rather than forwards.
True Erick about the Zionist silliness.
However, TrueBelievers of any sort are destructive. Some are just more destructive than others because they have legitimacy with those in power.
Steve,
I support Erick’s removal of spam postings. I prefer hate speech to spam. Hate speech reveals more about the speaker than the person being spoken against. Spam just destroys the continuity and usefulness of the website. Wading through post after post of non-sequitur comments on the greatness of Ron Paul is not desirable for anyone interested in political discussion, even Ron Paul supporters.
“Trust me, true bravery is standing in front of a tank and refusing to let it pass.”
Perhaps, but if that were to be done here in protest of the Bush administration, you’d be labeled a hippy, commie, liberal or worse by Hannity, O’Reilly, etc….
Thanks for the explanation Erick.
I must have glossed over that the first time around.
Conservative columnist Bob Novak endorsed Ron Paul. Is Bob Novak a liberal? William F Buckley is against Bush
Erick
THIS WHAT REDSTATE POSTED.
Effective immediately, new users may *not* shill for Ron Paul in any way shape, form or fashion. Not in comments, not in diaries, nada. If your account is less than 6 months old, you can talk about something else, you can participate in the other threads and be your zany libertarian self all you want, but you cannot pimp Ron Paul. Those with accounts more than six months old may proceed as normal.
Now, I could offer a long-winded explanation for *why* this new policy is being instituted, but I’m guessing that most of you can probably guess. Unless you lack the self-awareness to understand just how annoying, time-consuming, and bandwidth-wasting responding to the same idiotic arguments from a bunch of liberals pretending to be Republicans can be. Which, judging by your comment history, you really don’t understand, so allow me to offer an alternate explanation: we are a bunch of fascists and we’re upset that you’ve discovered where we keep the black helicopters, so we’re silencing you in an attempt to keep you from warning the rest of your brethren so we can round you all up and send you to re-education camps all at once.
Hey, we’re sure *some* of Ron Paul’s supporters really are Republicans. They can post at any one of a zillion Ron Paul online forums. Those who have *earned* our respect by contributing usefully for a substantial period of time will be listened to with appropriate respect. Those who have not will have to *earn* that respect by contributing usefully in the other threads… and not mentioning Ron Paul. Given a month of solid contributing, send one of us an email and we’ll consider lifting the restriction on your account.
You may now resume your regularly scheduled RedState activities. Everyone but the Ron Paul spammers, that is. You can resume your regularly scheduled activities somewhere else.
“Perhaps, but if that were to be done here in protest of the Bush administration, you
“Um, except that when American citizens speak out against their government, said government doesn
RedState is aptly named, for you use tactics of Lenin and Stalin to suppress free speech and political debate.
The GOP can only win as a coalition of libertarians, fiscal conservatives, and social conservatives. You partisan hacks who grovel at the feet of George W. Bush have FAR less support than Dr. Paul.
So go ahead. Infuriate and alienate the Fiscal Conservatives and Libertarians and you are going to get an electoral wipe-out in 2008 that makes the 2006 disaster look like a ripple.
You demean and denigrate a man who has remained true toconservative PRINCIPLE for 30 years of public service to champion what?
-A party that will have doubled the national debt in two terms.
-The party of Duke Cunningham, Jack Abramoff, Ralph Reed, Larry Craig, and too many others to recount.
-A party of folks who gave us No Child Left Behind and the largest entitlement since LBJ in Medicare D.
-A war party who SAYS the war is of overriding importance but not enough so to fund it via taxes or man it via a draft.
-A party that opposes everything gay, yet whose Speaker covered up for a gay GOP House member trying to molest male pages and who has Senator Craig who confessed to soliciting sex in a men’s room.
- A party who defended the scapegoating, firing, demotion, and derision of good Republicans like Sec. O’Neil, finance adviser Summers and a list of like honest folks as long as my arm by the most corrupt administration in history
*******
It is a mystery to me why a fine man of real conviction and principle like Dr. Paul remains in your party.
This whole incident makes this long-time GOP financial supporter furious and removes any chance whatsoever that I vote for anyone with the GOP label.
Redstate bans people for jaywalking. There is a VERY quick trigger there, particularly against those who disagree.
Erick,
Why is “F***” astricked out, but “cocksucker” is not?
As I recall George Carlin’s 7 words you could not (used to) say on TV it was: Two all-beef patties, special sauce, let—…oh, sorry, wrong jingle.
Let’s see…how did Carlin’s jingle start? Anyone?
i do not understand the badger song but i cannot tear myself away from it either…
How is this for credibility -
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redamerica/
“we learned of allegations that Ben Domenech plagiarized material that appeared under his byline in various publications prior to washingtonpost.com contracting with him to write a blog that launched Tuesday.
An investigation into these allegations was ongoing, and in the interim, Domenech has resigned, effective immediately.”
“Plagiarism is perhaps the most serious offense that a writer can commit ”
Domenech the Redstater…….Domenech the Ron Paul hater …….Domenech the Doomed GOP hack.
Your credibility joins your evenhandedness in its death plunge into the gutter below.
How does it feel to be down there with moveon.org…..oh, I forgot, you don’t have a fraction of their money………….
sometimes I wonder about these so-called Ron Paul supporters. It is just as easy to pretend to be a RPRevolutionary as it is a female in an internet communication.
Having said that, there is no need to communicate differences in policy in a manner alleged by you in your re-posts. Of that, there is no defense.
However, as distasteful as it seems, what you see here is an anger and a fear. Not a fear of ‘terr’ists’ ™ abroad.
I know it gets boring hearing me beat this single drum, but the enemy here is the status quo. These people sense it as well.
Yes, there are kooks with ‘agendas’. If you examine the root of their agenda you will find this common fear of some loss of liberty, and an uneasy gut-feeling that something is not right.
I do my share of mocking. I find pious-politicians worthy of my mockery. I love my country and I fear my government.
Until you guys bring someone credible to the table, I’ll keep sending that wacky doctor another $50.
oops..heh…
I think you should be fair, and share some of the less ridiculous mail.
Dear Redstate:
I have never been a member of your website, but have been reading some of your members’ postings recently. The favored sentiment seems to be “Ron Paul and all his spamming supporters are liberals pretending to be Republicans”
Well put, Rick. As of today, Paul has raised almost twice as much money over the past three weeks as Huckabee did over the past three months. There’s a base there which goes far beyond some spammer kooks on Redstate, and the party would be foolish to write it off (or actively take steps to push it away).
NYTimes…nice…
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/24/a-ban-on-ron-paul-supporters/index.html?hp
“…for you use tactics of Lenin and Stalin to suppress free speech and political debate.”
This is what I’m talking about. You know NOTHING of the tactics of Lenin and Stalin. If our government (or RedState) were employing the tactics of Lenin and Stalin, none of us would be here blogging freely about our opinions. We’d be in gulags in Alaska freezing to death. Or dead, if we’re lucky.
Like I’ve said, it doesn’t take courage to stand up to a government that holds freedom of speech sacrosanct. It takes courage to stand up to a government that doesn’t.
Indy, you want authoritarian tactics? Go to China and see how you like it. I’ve seen what they do to protesters over there, grabbed off the street never to be heard from again. Or better yet, dispersed by random gunfire into the crowd.
Truly, the U.S. is not authoritarian…yet. History has shown us that the move towards totalitarian government is more dangerous and difficult to recognize when it moves slowly (see Germany 1923-1945). Moreover, the Republican response to Ron Paul is appalling(excuse the pun) and rather childish. He IS the only real Conservative running for president, representing the small government, non-interventionist policies that were once the mainstay of the Republican Party. Now he is reinvigorating the disenfranchised classic conservatives and libertarians that have had little representation for the last twenty plus years. Another note: libertarians are not liberals. If you think otherwise, take a history or political science class and relieve the rest of us of your political ignorance.
Steve Perkins is right. The guys in power of the GOP have thrown the free market / limited government faction out.
There is a huge coalition of voters that are not being catered to by the two main parties. (See Brink Lindsey’s article in Reason Magazine: http://www.reason.com/news/show/120265.html)
Ron Paul has come the closest. Right now he is appealing to the more passionate members of this ignored segment. To write them off as a bunch of anti-semites is just as weak as the attempt to lump Ron Paul and his supporters in with the 9/11 truth crowd.
‘This is what I
CobbGOPer – On their ascent to power Lenin and Stalin used such tactics. Hitler and Goebbels certainly did in the days before brutally crushing the Brownshirts.
I put NOTHING past the current administration or its cult-like following, Big Government apologizing, plagiarist aggrandizing crowd at RedState. Or here, for that matter.
The wacked-out apologists seemingly are blind to their supreme hypocrisy in lock-stepping (goose stepping?) support of a gang who has betrayed every element of conservatism over the last 7 years.
The crowd over the GOP has burnt the Big Tent to the ground, with Erick electing to don sackcloth and ashes rather than embrace forces of reform.
In a short while, Erick won’t be fawned over by the chieftains of the GOP, for most of them will be sent home and the Party will have as much relevance as the Whigs. It might take a couple of elections here in Georgia, but reform is coming here, too. Erick will be a pimple on the backside of history.
2006 was a wake-up for y’all. You blew it.
We won’t miss you at all.
BTW – RedState its fellow Bush Apologist bloggers are already hurting from loss of influence and, worse still, the plunging GOP finances, trending at 1/20 th of the Dems from some reports.
The RCCP is BEGGING GOP incumbents to help because former big donors like the one typing these words have told them “DROP DEAD!”
Erick, you can rightfully point out that Ron Paul has some over-zealous supporters who could learn a thing or two about civility and good taste. But didn’t doing things like making that t-shirt only rile them up? So, did you want them quiet or angry? And if you wanted them quiet, why instigate trouble that way?
It seems Erick could learn a thing or two about civility and good taste two, Holly.
You don’t really think those vile emails he posted were truly representative, do you?
Anyone who would frame discussion of Dr. Paul with “I smell Hebrew” is rotten to the core with hatred and bias against the only real conservative left in the GOP.
too, not two
This is the CC GOP mission statement which Presidential candidate matches this statement the most?
The Cherokee County Republican Party (CCRP) stands for fiscal responsibility, lower taxes, local control of schools, property rights protection, traditional family values
and decreasing the size of government.
It is not expected that every member will agree 100% with all issues. But, by joining the CCRP, the member understands they have joined a party whose members overwhelmingly support the above principles.
Member also agrees with the premise that less government is better than more government and
local government is more accountable than the federal government.
Ron Paul is the Ross Perot of the new millenium. But he’s not near the idiot and hypocrite that Perot was/is.
(Perot was a gummint hater – yet his EDS made its billions processing government transfer payments).
Paul is a very sincere guy. His position on the phony War on Tare is spot on. Other than his extreme position on abortion and stem cell research, there is nothing that scares me about the guy – except some of the looneytunes he has attracted to his campaign, especially the southron moron ‘States’ Righters’.
He’s head and shoulders the best of a very very sorry lot, the only one besides McCain with an ounce of personal integrity. And McCain has his nose too far up the Bush adminstration’s assinities to have much left.
RedState is private property. The owners have a right to allow who can or cannot comment on them.
I am a Ron Paul supporter, but I am embarrassed at some of the things done in his name.
I’ve expressed my feelings about this to Erick in private. I think the libertarian/Republican relationship is damaged beyond repair. Did RedState add to it? I don’t believe they did anything to mend it, and I don’t hold Erick responsible for that. Many libertarian-leaning Republicans have left the GOP for good. That is the GOP’s loss.
The “Hebrew” comment is in some ways justified, I’m not saying that he should have actually posted it like that, but considering the some holocaust comments by some of Ron Paul supporters. It’s something I can understand.
I think the libertarian/Republican relationship is damaged beyond repair. . . Many libertarian-leaning Republicans have left the GOP for good. That is the GOP
Hey Holly, the shirt came after they invaded RedState.
Jason,
Agreed that the GOP-Libertarian split is probably permanent until the GOP is virtually dead after 2008. That party is corrupt to its core.
Frankly, the GOP would be a LOT better off if the folks still supporting Bush were embarrassed at the things done in his name and at his direction. The man is the worst POTUS in US history and the folks left supporting him have no PRINCIPLES whatsoever.
The “Hebrew” thing was just a snide use of the overused “anti-Semitic” branding tactic placed on anyone who supports AMERICA FIRST and owes no allegiance to Israel. There is nothing anti-Semitic about putting US interests ahead of any other state. If there is I would be more than happy to debate it with anyone.
RedState and the actions of the GOP will force the energies of Dr. Paul’s supporters behind a third party candidate in 2008, even if he does not run himself.
If it were ‘only’ the libertarians alienated the GOP might still have a chance. Alas, for them, the fiscal conservatives and independents have also been cast out.
We Indies are the DECIDERS and we have decided that the GOP must die if Ron Paul is not its nominee. With juvenile insults like RedState’s, the GOP “base” has assaulted the rest of us to the point that we are fighting mad.The pathetic GOP fund raising is most revealing and evidentiary of this truth.
As for Erick, he just poisoned his own well.
Holly
I think you are right. Indy has pointed out why many of us have lost faith with the GOP which has abandon principal over Party. I have friends who are Democrats and they feel the same about their Party.
As a country we face major challenges with issues like Foreign policy, Iraq, Iran, Immigration, healthcare, trade debt, spending, roads, environment, education,energy
No offense, John, but get a sense of humor. The guy says some shocking stuff, sure. Most of us go “eh”, the ron paulites go rabid, and a few poor, confused schmucks think it has some larger, deeper meaning. There isn’t always a cave behind the cave.
My observation of erick is that he is the kind of guy that if you hack him off he’ll call you an a@@hole and move on. If you do it enough, maybe he won’t talk to you at all after some point. You may be the type that wants to know why the person did what they did, analyse their childhood, find out if they were a bed wetter. Stuff like that. It doesn’t make either of you right or wrong. Just different.
Dorian,
You make valid points. That was my first take on Erick, until I saw many incidents of Erick attacking people with at best with flimsy rumors and no real facts.
As far as Ron Paul issue this is about the Iraq war. And Erick and his group are attacking brave people speaking out with twisted facts while people die. The truth or facts mean nothing only their agenda.
I am not analyzing Erick; His actions are his own he has to live with it not me.
There is nothing anti-Semitic about putting US interests ahead of any other state.
I don’t disagree with that. But when people supporting Ron Paul spout overused and unbelievable conspiracy theories, as well as toss out the word “Zionist,” and doubt the historicity of the holocaust…then they’ve crossed the line.
Look, Ron Paul is probably the only candidate in either party that truly understands liberty, but he is an ineffective spokesperson for it.
He has exceeded expectations. I’ll agree with that, but can you really tell me that you believe he ever had a shot for the nomination? I’m voting for the guy, but my vote is only to make a point.
Red State banned Ron Paul supporters. I won’t ever use that site ever again. Red State was too neo-con for open discussion and opinion. Red State should be called Dead State like their neo-con ideolgy. If the GOP nominates pro war neo-cons like Rudy,Romney,or Huckabee. Hillary Clinton can count on getting elected President and Democrats to expand majorities in US Senate and House. If there is no viable third party candidate like I like or Ron Paul does not run as a third party or independent, then Hillary will get my vote.
In Red State’s case it is ” I SMELL HITLER”
Jason
You Are Right!
“But when people supporting Ron Paul spout overused and unbelievable conspiracy theories, as well as toss out the word
Is it really the war that everyone has such a problem with? Or is it the fact that we have to be so civilized about fighting wars? I mean if we had just kicked the crap out of Iraq and walked away (something we accomplished a few years ago) this would all be over and the troops would be home? I don’t and have never opposed the ‘war’. I oppose the ‘peace’. I oppose trying to redefine the Iraqi culture. The message I would be sending is that ‘if you mess with us we will stomp a mud hole in you’, not ‘if you mess with us we will stomp a mud hole in you and then build a bridge over it’.
The (purported) purpose for going into Iraq was to eliminate the threat of a madman with nukes. If we “had just kicked the crap out of Iraq and walked away” then we’d have left a failed state, we’d see a new nutjob running things and in a few years we’d be looking at going back in again.
9/11 was a major changing point for the GOP. Had 9/11 not happened, then there would have been a lot more opposition within GOP ranks to the President’s domestic policies. But with 9/11 we were all hoodwinked into thinking that the “Global War on Terror” was the paramount fight of our generation. Everything else, civil rights, limited government, fiscal responsibility, became secondary.
Well, I’ve got news for you (GOP) folks. Hillary Clinton’s health care proposal will kill more Americans then Saddam’s nukes would have. President Bush, those in his administration who botched the whole effort, the frigtards in congress, and those of us in the GOP who held our tongue and supported him bear responsibility for where we are today.
You all can say what you want … but Ron Paul has struck a nerve in America. He has made us all think again instead walking in lock-step with either Party.
I still admire him. He has fire in his belly. That is something missing from the others except for Mike Huckabee … who is growing on me.
I would support either one because they seem to
actually have connected to the heart and soul of the voters.
I went to Texas to meet Ron Paul and he is one of the most down to earth family man you will ever meet – nothing “bling bling” about him. He looks great for 72 years of age. He has a great smile. He is not a big shot. He is one of us. It appears he is being ushered off the stage but I will always have a place in my heart for Ron Paul. After all he is a a PRO-LIFE OBGYN who has an excellent book ” Challenge to Liberty” – a MUST READ for all voters.
To paint Dr. Paul’s supporters as anti-Semitic by cherry picking several angry responses to Herr Erickson’s Goebbels-emulating tactics is a stretch of the truth to the breaking point.
ANYONE who listens to Ron Paul in the debates, in campaign speeches, and in interviews knows that he opposes the massive aid to Israel no more or less than monetary or military intervention anywhere else. Any references to Israel by Dr. Paul himself are negligible compared to his message of liberty, small government spending, ending the war, and noninterventionism.
Dr. Paul reminded me of yet another GOP attribute – it is the party of OPEN BORDERS here and secure borders in Iraq.
Way to go GOPers – you are all nuttier than a fruitcake.
Indy,
I disagree that we’re all nuttier than a fruitcake.
If we all run away from the party, then who is there to fix it?
That being said, Chris, I look forward to reading the rest of your commentary. I’m guilty, I’ll admit it. I didn’t start getting really antsy until the immigration debate, but NCLB should have been the first clue-in.
No matter what else gets said on this thread, I want to paraphrase something Dr. Paul correctly stated the other night at the debate:
We’ve moved away from whether it’s the government’s responsibility to do _______ (fill in your own blank) to the point where we expect the government to fix lots of things that it never should have been responsible for in the first place.
For that alone, regardless of what else Dr. Paul says, he has a valuable place at the table of Republican ideals. . . at least according to our purported platform. There are those of us who agree with him, that the government oversteps into our private lives far too much, and neither Dems or Repubs seem to get this any more except for when it doesn’t fit their agenda. Dems scream, “free speech, free speech!” and “gay rights! gay rights!” whereas Repubs scream, “states’ rights! states’ rights!” and “free market! free market!”
Both mistakenly believe that they can pick and choose when Uncle Sam traipses in to tell everyone what to do. There is a time for the government to take control of situations, but according to our Constitution, health care, marriage protection, and foreign aid aren’t examples of when it should happen.
I know that a lot of you disagree with me, and that’s fine. But if we aren’t constantly reminded of what’s actually supposed to be the case, then we will continue to get further and further into the entanglement of big government.
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