Fireworks Coming

This’ll be fun to watch. But truth be told, while I commend the zeal on this issue, I’m not a fan of pushing legislation that will undoubtedly be ruled unconstitutional.

State Rep. Martin Scott was a fourth-grader listening to the radio when he heard about abortion and asked his grandmother how to prevent it.

She told him only politicians could, so he quietly decided then to run for office. Now the 36-year-old, second-term Republican from Rossville on the Tennessee line is ready to act, sponsoring an amendment to the state constitution that would outlaw abortion, euthanasia, cloning and embryonic stem-cell research.

He introduced it late in the last session, and says that the new members of the U.S. Supreme Court make the timing ideal for passage of a state measure.

Patterned after the Human Life Amendment that has stalled in Congress for three decades, House Resolution 536 would define life as beginning at conception, granting the same legal status to an embryo as any adult.

I think the better approach would be to draft an amendment to the Georgia Constitution outlawing euthanasia, cloning, and embryonic stem-cell research and another amendment that would, on abortion, do nothing except state that should the U.S. Supreme Court ever decide that abortion is a non-constitutional issue, sending it back to the states, that the Georgia Courts shall be prevented from interpreting into the Georgia Constitution any abortion rights.

Let the legislative leaders decide the issue. God knows I’m prolife, but this issue tires me and, like Boortz, it’s not something I tend to discuss or debate.

I’ll just point out to my pro-life all or nothing friends that Judge Bork himself has said repeatedly that had the pro-life community been willing to accept a constitutional amendment to let each state decide the issue for itself, we’d not be in the situation we’re in now. But the all or nothings wanted to use the federal constitution to prohibit abortion instead of letting federalism works its magic.

The rest is history.

74 comments

  1. Oh I can’t wait. I know the mouth breathers on here always doubt me when I say that even in Georgia being pro-choice is ultimately a good position, but seriously, I would love for the Republican to push something like this.

    Not only might even Martin Scott’s district become competitive (remember, South Dakota, Bush 60 Kerry 39 overturned at the ballot their abortion ban) but don’t even pretend that suburban Republican leaning seats would be even close if their legislators voted to outlaw abortion – much less embryonic stem cell research.

    Cuckoo!

  2. Federalist says:

    And sh#t like this is why the republican party is dying. Welcome back to the inquisition Georgia. Thank (insert diety or whatever you believe here) the democrats know what is important.

  3. Federalist says:

    Honestly, I am beginning to think that the republican base (mid-class suburban christians) will start to get really scared with these types of proposals. It looks good to support this garbage around your neighbors and fellow church attendees, but when your 16 year old daughter or your college freshman is pregnant where will you go to get an abortion if these gopers seek to criminalize it? An empty alley with a coat hanger?

  4. Why does this stretch my imagination? Martin was like 11 years old then and that was 1982, the height of the sexual revolution. What did he do during puberty and was he catholic? Now that would make for some real down home Southern reading.

    “State Rep. Martin Scott was a fourth-grader listening to the radio when he heard about abortion and asked his grandmother how to prevent it.

    She told him only politicians could, so he quietly decided then to run for office. Now the 36-year-old,”

  5. chefbeth says:

    I have an idea. How about those of us who have the ability to become pregnant DECIDE?. And those of you with the ability to impregnate….. either keep your pants on or get a vasectomy (for those of you who never had Sex Ed, a Vasectomy is the severing of the Vas Deferens; a quick office procedure requiring only a local anesthetic… real men get the big V when they’re done making babies.) What a concept. The ultimate in personal responsibility (which is what the Republicans preach… er… um… teach) is to TEACH your children how pregnancy occurs and how to PREVENT IT. (how many of you knew that we DON’T teach this in school any more? if you’re not teaching your kids at home… then they’re NOT getting it!) How many of you out there have exactly the number of children you INTENDED to have? No oops… no mistakes… no accidental, unintentional, unplanned, late-in-life pregnancies in your personal history? I’m two for two. Two kids from two INENTIONAL pregnancies. I grew up in an area where sex education wasn’t a bad thing… we can teach the subject without condoning teen sex. After all… umbrellas don’t cause rain. And… even better… sexually active ADULTS need to know how all this works… not just sexually active teens! Did your marriage license come with info on contraception?
    No…. I didn’t think so.
    Can you imagine what the world would be like if women only had to bear the number of children they WANTED to have and were prepared to care for? We’d have a more vibrant economy, far fewer prisons, far less drug use, far less family violence, little or no need for many social programs. It’s the reverse trickle down effect…. make fewer babies (on purpose) and have happier, more financially secure families, with less child and female abuse, a better educational system (because we’d have fewer drop outs, fewer hungry kids sitting in classrooms…). Ah… the list is endless… if only people were EDUCATED on sex, child bearing, birth, BIRTH CONTROL… real sex education. Bring back Sex Ed and quit romanticizing sex and marriage… and GET REAL. Pregnancy and childbirth are difficult and dangerous… healthy women and girls still DIE every single day in every country on this globe. Every pregnancy does not result in a healthy baby and mother. Women die… so legislating childbirth is a DEALTH SENTENCE to many girls and women. IS THAT PRO-LIFE?? I for one, do not want to live in a country that forces women to bear children against their will. Safe, legal abortion is a far safer procedure than giving birth… especially for young women. How many of you guys have had a 7 or 8 POUND package grow inside you and then have to come out? You’d all be horrified if you had to take over childbearing duties. But alas, it’s the women of the world who bear this awesome ability. Until you have walked in a woman’s shoes, who has had to make that painful decision to terminate a pregnancy, you CANNOT know how she feels. It’s HER decision. If you feel that abortion is being misused as birth control… you’re RIGHT! It is… but only because we are withholding birth control information and access from people who want and need it! I wanted to VOMIT when I was in a political forum last fall, and one House Rep proudly professed that he’d supported the bill that called for the “24 hour cooling down period” before a woman could have an abortion. Um… a “cooling down period” is required before you can buy a GUN… the 24 hour waiting period before an abortion, just makes a legal medical procedure even more out of reach for the women who need it. What male procedure requires a 24 hour waiting period and a minimum of two appointments to complete?? None. There’s a double standard for women that’s grossly UNJUST.
    Suggested reading: “Behind every Choice is a Story” and “The War on Choice” both by Gloria Feldt. Read one or both of these books and then we can continue this conversation. Both books are FULL of stories of pro-life women and families who changed their tune when it happened to them. Abortion will always be with us… it existed before Roe and it will exist after Roe falls, if Roe falls. The only numbers that will change will be the number of DEAD WOMEN. That number will skyrocket. Women with money, of course, will never have to worry; they’ll always have access. It just won’t say “abortion” in her medical records, it will say “D & C.” (happy to tell you what that means too… if you never had Sex Ed in health class.)

  6. Harry says:

    The leftists are very happy to legislate leftist morality in all sorts of other areas of life, just not abortion. Robbing Peter to pay Paul to deliver his vote to you is said to be a flavor of legislative morality by the left.

    I respect the opinion of a true libertarian on this issue, but not those of you who are looking for government solutions in every other aspect of life, except when it comes to laws that seek to control your urge to murder your baby or your daughters’ baby in order to preserve your own material comfort level!

  7. Chef Beth,

    You said, ‘Abortion will always be with us.’

    I agree with you. The question has not been whether or not abortion will happen…there will always be deviance.

    Normal it is though, for Americans to enjoy God-given rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To discriminate against anyone based on their age, sex, or race is un-American.
    The lefty activists have an agenda similar to Hitler’s eugenics. More than 60% of the abortions in Georgia last year were African American. Look where Planned Parenthood places their structures. “In the ghetto,” as Elvis Presley said.

    As long as Americans forget fidelity, they will soon get what they are asking for.

    Chefbeth, you are right…it begins in the home, and men should be held reponsible when they create unwanted life. What a tragedy it is to kill a defenseless child because of sexual irresponsibility. Hey pick on someone your own size!

    Ultimately this is a heart problem, and there is no answer but repentance unto faith in One who has endowed all persons with certain unalienable rights.

    A reformation of the heart will end the bloodshed, and then abortion will no longer be with us.

  8. peatea07 says:

    Well said by Chef Beth. I just wish we had a third party that would make a difference. I am not in favor of abortion but I am for a womens right to chose. Abortion will always be here the key is to having as few as possible maybe evn none. Education and availability of contaception. I sat my son down knowing he would have sex. Condoms fro him and birth control for his girlfriend = Zero Babies. As a responsible adult a vasectomy. All this fro education!!! Both parental and school. As for all you church people. I’ve read about nuns having abortions from having sex with priests! Maybe they should have had some sex ed at the church!!!!

  9. chefbeth says:

    To Harry and to MartinLutherStreet….
    Thank you for your comments…

    Abortion will be drastically reduced when people are educated how to prevent unintended pregnancy. That’s not a partisan left or right issue… that is fact. Nobody is pro-abortion, not even the women seeking the procedure. They, of all people, would be happy to trade places with a sister or mother who had either remained abstinant or who had had access to birth control.

    We need to value ALL life… not just fetal life. Life continues to the grave, yet many pro-lifers also oppose assistance in raising, feeding, clothing, educating, or housing this child. We condemn Welfare mothers, and in the same breathe we praise them for “keeping their babies.” Which do you prefer? You can’t have it both ways. And WHERE are the fathers in this condemnation?

    Birth control fails…
    Women get raped…
    Little girls get raped… as we’ve all seen on tv in the last 48 hours. Pregnancy is not always a joyous occasion. Women pay the price, not men, for the risks and dangers involved. I’ve never heard of a man dying during pregnancy and delivery. Men can sit behind their desks and dish out laws and lectures, degrade and belittle those who Choose … but women pay the price. Too often with their lives.

    Education will begin to heal this moral wound… but unfortunately, we live in a country that does not value education enough to provide it. SO PARENTS…. it’s up to you. Know the facts and teach them to your children BEFORE they are of childbearing age. This means around age 10. It’s hard… but it’s necessary. And when you CHOOSE not to teach your children, then you are guilty of contributing to the problem. Study then teach.. anatomy, physiology, and toss in a little chemistry. Condoms, The Pill, IUD’s, Tubal ligation, vasectomy. I’d love to be a fly on the wall listening to the average Middle GA parent explaining how the Pill keeps a woman from becoming pregnant. Harry… do you know?

    Somebody you love may need a CHOICE.

  10. Bill Simon says:

    “Let the legislative leaders decide the issue”

    Yes, let our esteemed legislators “decide” this. After all, they are all rocket-scientist Creationists who should make ALL of our decisions for us.

    In fact…let’s do away with the Legislature entirely, and let’s just have Senator Eric Johnson decide for us. A man as brilliant as he is (“just let Grady close, who needs it?”) needs no other help from ANYONE to make a decision about our lives.

    We should vote to allow the capital of Georgia to be moved down to Savannah where Pro Tem Johnson can just run the whole frigging state from his home office.

    He can make our decisions for us. We will send all of our money right to Johnson so HE can takeover our lives even more.

  11. dang, if that cheflady was Rep Scott’s Grandmother, he wouldn’t have georgia’s predominantly male politicians involved in his psychosexual development.

    if a georgia lady had a D&C, could she get elected in DC?

  12. John Konop says:

    If you combine 9 months for birth with 18 years before you become a legal adult. The birth portion of this life cycle pre-adult is less than 5%.

    How can someone be pro-life and not be for mandatory pay healthcare?

    Does not a kid need healthcare to live?

    Does not a kid need a parent?

    All of you fighting for this bill and not healthcare reform are pro birth not pro-life!

  13. Federalist says:

    Bill Simon,

    NO. The legislators should not decide this. Legislators are typically stupid, much like the people that elected them. We have a court system for a reason…to have a branch of government detached from the influences of the masses, and able to make educated decisions.

  14. Nicki says:

    That’s a painfully stupid bill the senator is proposing. Because he’s done several things that just are not going to work out. Most notably he’s combined four poorly-defined procedures, all of which have some legally-defensible basis. So not only is he unlikely to get support for the bill to begin with — since any given person may have objections to any of the procedural bans — but even if it were passed it would be immediately overturned.

    Now, on to specifics. I’m a liberal libertarian (conservative regarding the reach of government, fiscally conservative, and socially liberal)…so my take on these is a bit different than most others’ opinions.

    Abortion is a private issue to be determined between a woman and her doctor. First, pro-life should more accurately be called pro-forced birth since, as noted, it only applies to potential lives within women’s bodies. Second, the legal impact of outlawing all abortion would have horrible consequences in a variety of arenas — in rape and incest and abuse cases, in women’s self-determination. Third, if you want fewer abortions (and we all do), then the place to make that happen is far before the medical procedure. And finally, no one who is even vaguely rational would suggest a total abortion ban because it is not possible. Abortion exists because it is medically necessary in a small number of cases — those cases aren’t going to change unless politicians want their principles demonstrated in dead and disabled women. For that matter, no one who is even vaguely rational would conflate a 50 year-old with a blastocyst.

    Euthanasia — I always find it strange when people who call themselves conservative do not support principles of individual autonomy and self-determination. No doubt there are plenty of people who would like to see end-of-life protocol codified — but very few people truly support revoking the right to determine under what conditions one can choose to die. Because unfortunately most measures designed to limit euthanasia also limit compassionate end-of-life care.

    Cloning — might as well outlaw martians or federal policy, ’cause this isn’t within the state’s jurisdiction, nor is it timely. And does dumbass want to ban all cloning or just human cloning? ‘Cause if he wants to ban all cloning the result will be a huge blow to Georgia’s agricultural and biotech industries. Yeah!

    Embryonic stem cell research — meh. I like seeing it invested in with private dollars.

  15. John Konop says:

    Nicki,

    I do think abortion clinics being used as birth control does cheapen life. I had a friend who worked in a clinic and they left the job, because they could not sleep at night.

    The truth is abortion is more than just a woman

  16. peatea07 says:

    All you people on the free healthcare issue. From my understanding it takes about 13K a year to raise a child and send them to College. That would include healthcare. It goes down to the saying. If you can’t feed them don’t breed them. Why should I as a taxpayer have to pay for your healthcare!! That’s the problem with this country. No one wants to take responsibility. Let the government do it. The government can’t do squat right. Look at Social Security. Talk about getting hosed. I would be a millionaire right now if the money I put into Social Security was put into my own account. I’m supposed to be happty with 1,200.00 a month when I could take a draw 4K a month. Let womaen make choices, keep government as much as possible out of our lives. Lets start a third party. Get rid of all these loser politicians that don’t do squat for the citizens of this country. One more thing. They can’t even secure our borders!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. peatea07 says:

    Nicki, Well spoken!!!! Cloning going on right now. Private enterprise. Can’t beat it. That’s what makes this country so great. Free enterprise and people wanting to make a difference . A chance to make big$$$$$ while doing good for the world. I believe in self determination at the end of life. People shouldn’t say squat till they are in that position. Have a final get together say what needs to be said really make it nice and then a hot shot. I put my dog to sleep. I was amazed how quickly she died. Seconds and so peacefully. I held her in my arms and cried. But I knew she wasn’t suffering. Sometimes all we need is a little common sense. You wonder!!!

  18. SpaceyG says:

    Too bad Granny didn’t tell about birth control. We’d be a lot further along on this issue if she’d been just a touch more visionary.

  19. Donkey Kong says:

    Chefbeth-

    “It looks good to support this garbage around your neighbors and fellow church attendees, but when your 16 year old daughter or your college freshman is pregnant where will you go to get an abortion if these gopers seek to criminalize it? An empty alley with a coat hanger?”

    Um, they wouldn’t go get an abortion. They’d have the child and we would do everything we can to support the mother and child.

    “Life continues to the grave, yet many pro-lifers also oppose assistance in raising, feeding, clothing, educating, or housing this child.”

    SO NOT TRUE. I can’t emphasize enough how much of a lie this is.

    Nicki-

    “First, pro-life should more accurately be called pro-forced birth since, as noted, it only applies to potential lives within women

  20. Federalist says:

    I hope that this shakes the apple cart a bit.
    Why not allow abortions to be written off on taxes? Considering the spread of abortions per woman amongst the economic classes it would be beneficial for the government to foot the bill somewhat. Consider the cost the government would incur from welfare (all kinds: foodstamps, healthcare, etc.) and how much it would save if a fetus does not become a human baby. Abortions run from $350-$6000 depending where you live, what doctor you see, and which trimest you are in. Washington state already has government assistance for low income pregnant women seeking abortions, and some state health insurance plans cover it as well…expand it. All states should cover it. To prevent unwanted pregnancy I agree with chefbeth somewhat. Sex Education must exist…it currently does not. The run of the mill conservative promotes the abstinance policy, but birth control and other contraception should be free and available in schools even. Why not? It would be a service to humanity.

  21. jsm says:

    chefbeth, Nicki, et al.,

    A woman should not have the right to choose to kill a life, solely because it resides inside her body and depends upon her.

    I know. You say the baby is a “potential life.” I disagree on a scientific basis. Determining exactly when human life begins is difficult, but let’s start with a statistic. In 2000, the CDC reported that 77% of abortions happen at 6 weeks gestation or later. I feel confident that human life exists in the unborn baby at this point. Why? Because even at the earliest stages, as a small, growing collection of cells, an unborn baby is in a constantly improving state as it approaches the ability to function outside the womb, which is often possible before the date of birth.

    The pro-abortion argument seems almost always to reference rare cases.

    About 13,000 women and girls annually have abortions due to rape or incest

  22. Harry says:

    As usual, certain people are not prepared to take responsibility for the consequences of their own actions.

  23. Doug Deal says:

    So is this the thread that finally settles this debate?

    What about the next one?

    The next one?

    [fade out, fade in with the subtitle “10 years later”]

    The next one?

    You people on both sides must have bruises the size of grapefruits on your foreheads with all of this beating your head against the wall. You can tell the people that have never faced any real challenges or adversity in their life by the fervor with which they debate the abortion issue.

  24. BubbaRich says:

    No, but the pro-choice side of this debate doesn’t want to force everybody to get an abortion, while the pro-life side wants to outlaw it for everybody. I haven’t heard, yet, if the pro-life people are also against mouthwash, that kills cells that are as human as a zygote, probably thousands at a shot.

    Anybody who opposes legal early-term abortion probably has very strong beliefs, but not much knowledge. But I agree with all of the above posters who think actual education of kids on the subject will improve the situation and decrease the need even for early-term.

  25. Doug Deal, “you can tell the people have never faced any real challenges or adversity in their life…”

    So…you recommend they try killing a small child in the womb in order to add the challenge of guilt and the weight of knowing you murdered your own child?

    Write a self help book, and let Planned Parenthood slap a ‘Best Seller’ sticker on it for you.

  26. Federalist says:

    martinlutherstreet.
    It is not a child, it is a fetus. Stop trying to let your garbage beliefs ruin existence for everyone else. I can write a book and say it was gods word too,…I would even put a chapter in there saying that abortion is ok. How is your point any different? your book is not even a decent fiction novel…it should be reeditioned again with a more polished plot line and more developed characters.

  27. Nicki says:

    Yawny mcyawnerstein. Guys, I don’t care what you believe. All I’m saying is this bill has not a chance in hell, and with good reason. Because it’s stupid, complex, and unconstitutional — the trifecta of defeat. I wouldn’t be surprised if the representative introduced it strictly for PR purposes.

    Furthermore, as I noted above, it’s not a conservative bill. It’s the worst kind of nanny state silliness. I would think that a party that natters on so about individual liberty and small government and not invading people’s lives would live by that. But I guess not — conservatism is just an excuse to limit investment in ideas you disagree with.

    On the abortion business…

    I suppose this touches on a deeper issue of when a baby has full inalienable rights. You say at birth.

    I said no such thing, and I don’t presume to know. But you say “when it’s a baby” and I don’t consider it an autonomous being until it is capable of individual survival.

    I believe it is from conception, because as soon as a baby is conceived I think its a

  28. liberator says:

    The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Bites! Why Madonna,Beatsie Boys,and Chic are nominated this year and true greats like Iggy and the Stooges,Ted Nugent,Stevie Winwood,Steve Miller,and Kiss aren’t is beyond me!

  29. chefbeth says:

    FACT: contraceptives were not legal for married couples to use until 1968 (Griswold v Connecticut.
    FACT: contraceptives were not legal for single people to use until 1972 (Eisenstadt v Baird).

    So… poor Granny didn’t have any choice at all. Keep your fingers crossed, keep your legs crossed and pray that Grandpa rolls over and falls asleep.

    Before Roe, women saught abortions, and a disproportionate number were women of Faith. They didn’t want to leave their churches, they just didn’t want to bear any more children.. so they found doctors, midwives willing to help them.

    I have a daughter with a congenital heart defect, for which pregnancy would be suicide. Her cardiologist told her to NEVER become pregnant. So what are we to do if her birth control fails? Shall she be the Right’s guinea pig? Should we see if her cardiologist was right… in the name of saving the fetus? HELL NO… we save HER life and terminate the pregnancy. In what world would all you parents out there sacrifice your daughters or granddaughters when there is danger involved with a pregnancy? I was healthy as a horse both times I became pregnant and I had extremely difficult deliveries. I cannot imagine going through that for an unintended pregnancy. I almost bled to death the first time…. in a decent hospital, surrounded by docs and nurses… and I was healthy going into the delivery. YOU NEVER KNOW what can happen…. and so you cannot legislate childbearing… it must remain a choice. The woman’s choice.

    If our society was capable of educating its citizens, we’d have far fewer inintended pregnancies and abortion would be RARE.
    Safe, Legal, and Rare is the goal.

    Men… the day you have the capability to become pregnant is the day you can decide. Until then… this is between a woman, and her God and her family, and her doctor.

  30. Harry says:

    Whether to murder a defenseless human being is a choice that is in the hands of the mother, not President Bush. It’s an invasion into the baby’s home, the womb. The law says that even if you own a room in your house, you have no right enter that room to kill someone for your convenience…or you go to jail.

  31. chefbeth says:

    Harry refuses to acknowledge that so often it is NOT the woman’s choice to become pregnant.

    And I think VictoratGAImproper was referring to this hideous war we’re in… when referring to President Bush’s CHOICE to kill innocent human beings. Do the crime… do the time… time to lock up Bush as a war criminal?

    Back to our topic… CHOICE or NO choice… we can either have a government deciding when and if and how many children women must bear, or we can let the women decide. Do you want your govt deciding for you? I’ll repeat, nobody is “pro abortion.” Reducing unintended pregnancies is the key here… and EDUCATION is our best tool. Since we Georgians cannot rely on our schools to provide such education, it’s up to the parents. I highly recommend a book called “Our Bodies, Ourselves” by the Bostom Women’s Health Collective…. it’s every young girl’s “Bible” to female anatomy, menstruation, sex, pregnancy, childbirth, c-section, menepause… everything every female needs to know about her own body and what will happen to her over the course of her life. My father gave me my first copy when I was 11, and I am forever thankful that he did. If only there was such a book for boys. Women aren’t out here getting pregnant all by themselves… it takes two. So the guys needs to be as educated and as responsible as the gals… and it’s just not happening so far.

    Teens and adults alike don’t need anyone’s permission to have sex or make a baby. They don’t need a license to become a parent. We require tests and licensing to drive a car, to operate a boat, to buy a gun… but the most important job, parenting, is left to chance. The pro choice side of the aisle is simply saying that parenting should be by choice and not chance.

    When we educate, and make birth control easily accessible.. or FREE… then we’ll drastically reduce unintended pregnancy. It would be exponentially less expensive for our society to provide birth control to everyone who wants it than to pay for raising children and prisons. And that doesn’t “kill” anyone, Harry. Or are you also opposed to birth control?

  32. peatea07 says:

    Works for me. Look around they are breeding. Stupid people everywhere breeding!!!!!!!!!!!It’s a scary thing! Here is the deal. The government has no right telling you what to do with your individual body. You want to do drugs and kill yourself in the privacy of your own room be my guest. You want an early term abortion feel free. You need a late term due to complications I’m all for it. All you religious zealouts get a life. I guess when it was okay to burn people at the stake you were all for that too! Get a life. This is 2007. If you had it your way the black plague would still be caused by the devil!!!!!!!!!

  33. Federalist says:

    my goodness. harry is a friggin retard. the whom is a baby’s home? come on man. get out of childrens sunday school and think. a “whom”, also known as a uterus, belongs to a woman…not a fetus.

  34. jsm says:

    “The government has no right telling you what to do with your individual body.”

    Yeah, they have no right telling me what to do with my personal 9mm, either. Right?

    “All you religious zealouts get a life. I guess when it was okay to burn people at the stake you were all for that too! Get a life. This is 2007. If you had it your way the black plague would still be caused by the devil!!!!!!!!!”

    What an idiotic rant. I guess ignorance is okay as long as it’s directed at ‘religious’ people. *chuckle*

  35. rugby_fan says:

    “Yeah, they have no right telling me what to do with my personal 9mm, either. Right?”

    jsm this is such a flawed statement you don’t think people take it seriously do you?

  36. dingleberry says:

    Rugby_fan,

    Leave JSM ALONE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    JSM,

    You PREACH IT BROTHA!!! Tell these infernal athiests and women that they’ll all be going to HELL soon. Hey, women who want to be able to make choices, let me hit you with some knowledge: Your choices are the Devil’s workshop. SUMBIT to the will of your man or spend an eternity sharing a one bedroom apartment with Federalist, GodHatesTrash, Rugby_Fan and other athiests and feminists in HELL!!!!

    In HELL, the coffee is cold and they place pineapples in your anus ON A DAILY BASIS!!!!

  37. dingleberry says:

    In all seriously though, the issue of abortion is a contentious one. It is a key divider in the great Conservative vs. Libertarian vs. Liberal debate. Undoubtedly, the primary point of contention is the belief of exactly “when” life begins.

    If life begins, as the libertarians and liberals say, at birth, then surely the individual should have a choice as to whether or not she will actually go throught with the pregnacy from beginning to end. If a “life” is not at stake, then there is no issue.

    However, if life begins, as the conservatives say, at conception, then surely abortion in every way shape and form should be outlawed. All people of the world have the inalieable right to life, do they not?

    But who is right? Is it the liberal or libertarian? Or is it the conservative? Where does life begin? How do we define “life”? Does life begin when an organism is capable of self-preservation? Or does life begin at the earliest stage of development when survival and preservation is wholly dependant on the host organism?

    These are the real questions that need our immediate attention.

  38. Federalist says:

    maybe then…abortion should be legal still, and if you do not think that it is right…do not get one. It is that simple.
    jsm, there is a difference between abortion and murder. surely a redneck like you will not understand that though.

  39. dingleberry says:

    DON’T call JSM a REDNECK!!!

    JSM is a preacher of the GOSPEL truth, Federalist. It clearly states in the bible that abortions should be illegal. It says it right there in Matthew…no…um…Deuteronomy…um…no…Dammit, it says it. It also says that if your wife is ovulating she should dress herself in sackcloth and sleep in a different bed. JSM does this as well.

    YOU on the other hand are on your way to HELL!!! I know you like hanging with GHT and RugbyFan and that’s a good thing…you’ll get to spend a lot of time together in your studio apartment in HELL!!! The coffee is cold, and your butt will have a pineapple in it CONSTANTLY!!! Enjoy yourself athiest! HELL is waiting!

  40. dingleberry says:

    Rugby,

    Well, then I hope your hole has been wallowed out a bit, otherwise I’m sure you’ll be troubled by the pineapple…

  41. dingleberry says:

    Will you care to explain how you came to know about what happens in hell?

    From reading years and years of Far Side comics and watching the Adam Sandler movie, “Little Nicky”.

  42. Doug Deal says:

    rugby and dingle,

    I gained aquaintence to hell while attending classes in a little college off of North Avenue in Atlanta. Didn’t know that there was another way.

  43. JRM2016 says:

    Hey “Federalist”, what about simply vacating Roe and let the States decide about abortion, since the Constitution does not in any way address the legality of abortion?

  44. Federalist says:

    Nope. There is this thing called the court system. Roe really had nothing to do with abortion as an operation…rather it was a matter of privacy. Do not get me wrong, I am a federalist…but there was an inherent warning about giving the states too much power. As it stands, and as it should, the federal government can and should set standards for action. So long as the state do not impede on the supremecy claus, then by all means try. It will not work, and you should know this. All of the best and wealthiest, most influential attorneys are in the “liberal” camp. The supreme court already ruled on this matter and to try and corrupt the one prude branch of government is morally wrong. I used the word moral, which I rarely do, because in real life it is stood up for in the courts…not in legistlation, amendments, the people, the church or any of those religious stories (some do touch on it, but go into a tangent). The constitution does not make any single law, only a framework. To outlaw abortion would begin to breakdown that framework as it is known. What would be next? Preventing women and minorities from voting…again? would child labor laws be repealled? Even if god existed and came to earth herself and stated that life begins at conception, we should still keep abortion a legal procedure…because law is about what is best for society and the individuals that live in society, not about your religious beliefs.

  45. chefbeth says:

    This will be my last post on this topic… which has hit the gutter… (thanks guys for all your “hellish” comments… ) And the spelling is “womb” not “whom.”

    States deciding… Feds deciding… courts deciding….. these entities are not capable of becoming pregnant. Women are. Men get them pregnant and women bear the burden for the next 18-25 YEARS.

    Whether life begins at conception or at birth or somewhere in between is not even the key point. Life at conception … fine…. the fertilized egg now has equal rights to the woman. The question is WHOSE LIFE, and whose rights should come first when life isn’t fair? Is it okay to risk the mother’s life… a living, breathing human being for the sake of the fetus inside her? And I’m not just talking about the 1% of abortions that are late term when the mother’s physical health is in danger. The mother’s “life” includes her ability to mentally, emotionally, financially, and physically care for the child once it’s born. The decision might be less traumatic if men had child rearing responsibility. If women could give birth and then hand over the infant to a responsible father, who would feed, diaper, bathe, teach, and nurture this child for the next 18-25 years… that might reduce abortions, too.
    Won’t happen.

    Some men do this… applause, applause… but most do not. For most pregnancies… the end result is the WOMAN giving up the next 18 to 25 years of her life to raise and nurture this new person. THAT’S what this issue is about… it’s far more than life at conception or life at birth… or State laws vs Federal laws… it’s about QUALITY OF LIFE… for women…. and children.
    … not quantity of life for fetuses. Every sperm doesn’t need a name ! (~ Monty Python)

    I do not condone abortion as birth control, but until our society properly arms men and women with the education and contraceptives necessary to bear only WANTED children…it’s going to continue. Men cannot comprehend this, evidently… at least not some of the men adding comments here. You don’t gain 40-60 pounds, your internal organs are not maxed out, your heart is not pumping additional pints of blood, you’re not getting monthly spread-eagle exams and having every orafice probed, you don’t lose sleep for months or years, you don’t have to contemplate loss of your job, or loss of your entire career, you usually are not the primary caretaker of infants and children. Pregnancy and childbirth IS A CINCH for men! But it can be devastating to a woman.

    WHOSE life is more important?
    To me, the living, breathing woman standing before us MUST come first. To say that the life inside her is MORE important… is wrong.

    When and if I ever meet a genie in a bottle, my ONE WISH will be for role reversal… for men to take on the pregnancy/childbirth/child rearing duties for just ONE YEAR on this planet. Everything would change. Sex would change, birth control would change, medical research would change, job requirements, parental leave and salaries would change! If men could experience for one short year what women have always experienced… we might have a more compassionate world. Women don’t send their babies off to be slaughtered in war. (ironic how many “pro lifers” are also proponents of this war… is war pro life?) THINK ABOUT IT guys… if you had to contemplate pregnancy EVERY TIME YOU HAD SEX… if you had to watch what you ate… not smoke and not drink for 9 months… if you had to make child care arrangements (every day for about 14 years)… HOW would your lives be different?

    My guess is that you couldn’t hack the mission. Women do it because we have to… that’s one choice we were NOT given. Punishment or privelege?

    C’mon genie… where are you?

  46. dingleberry says:

    Bill,

    I thought you had my back since I took John Konop’s back the other day when Cobber2 was picking on him…oh well.

    I guess you’ll be sharing that studio apartment in HELL with Federalist, Demonbeck, Rugby_fan, GodHatesTrash, Athiests, and “Independent” Women. Have fun. It’ll be pretty packed in there. Also, they will be making you drink cold coffee. And they will place pineapples in your anus EVERY HOUR ON THE HOUR.

    HELL is no fun, Bill. Drop me a line when you get there!

    Also, yes I have sinned enought to last 5 lifetimes in HELL. But me and God have a deal. I condemn you guys to HELL, he spares me.

  47. dingleberry says:

    Look everyone it’s Victor Jones…the 40 year old washed up journalist who has myspace page to pick up chicks.

  48. Demonbeck says:

    Thanks Vic, if I didn’t already know how ignorant you are, I would have been offended by your comments.

  49. Military Sex Ed-Scott & Bruce:
    Wonder what they named the baby?

    http://www.macon.com/220/story/153316.html
    Posted on Fri, Oct. 05, 2007

    Authorities say Army colonels switched places for paternity test
    The Associated Press

    CARLISLE, Pa. –Two Army colonels are accused of switching identities to try to fool a paternity test, authorities said.

    Scott M. Carlson, 51, and Bruce S. Adkins, 44, who is accused of trying to take the paternity test in Carlson’s place, were charged Thursday with tampering with public records, tampering with evidence, forgery, theft and obstruction of justice, District Attorney David Freed said.

    Adkins, who is stationed in Georgia, will testify against Carlson if necessary, his attorney said.

    “He’s going to cooperate,” attorney Gregory Abeln said. “He’s going to do whatever he needs to do to rectify this situation.”

    It was not immediately known if Carlson, who is on duty in Egypt, had an attorney.

    Both men had been members of the class of 2007 at the Army War College in Carlisle. Freed said Carlson appeared at the Cumberland County domestic relations office in March to arrange for a paternity test.

    Carlson had been paying a Virginia woman child support for her 9-year-old daughter and she was seeking an increase, Senior Assistant District Attorney Derek Clepper said.

    County domestic relations employees became suspicious when another man showed up in April, claimed to be Carlson and wanted to take the paternity test.

    The man presented Carlson’s out-of-state driver’s license, signed papers as Carlson, provided a thumbprint, and provided a DNA sample, Detective Sgt. Earl Bock said in arrest papers. Bock said the man was identified through the thumbprint as Adkins.

    After the criminal investigation started, Carlson sent a letter to the domestic relations office in August and said he had been paying support since January 1999, had not paid since December 2006, and wanted to resume paying.

    Lt. Col. Bob Whetstone, a spokesman for Carlisle Barracks, the post where the War College is located, said it would be up to the commanders of Carlson’s and Adkins’ current units to determine whether military charges also should be brought against them.

  50. dingleberry says:

    My bad…

    Look everyone, it’s Victor Jones, the 50 year old washed up journalist who tries to pick up young chicks act cool with his Myspace account!

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