UnChristian:

Thought you guys might like to hear the interview I did with Gabe Lyons, co-author of the new book UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity… and Why It Matters . Gabe and I discussed how Christians are often perceived as being judgmental, hypocritical, anti-homosexual, and too political.

Good Will Hinton Weekly Podcast: Gabe Lyons
http://www.goodwillhinton.com/good_will_hinton_weekly_podcast_gabe_lyons

56 comments

  1. Federalist says:

    I have not read the book, but this sounds like what De Tocqueville observed and predicted almost 2 centuries ago.

  2. David says:

    However they portray Christians we can take heart that we may be judgmental but at least we don’t saw the heads of of our religious opponents of blow ourselves up in protest. However badly they say we behave, we’re still the best religious game in town.

  3. Paul Shuford says:

    Christianity is the “best religious game in town”? Sure, compared to fundamentalist Islam as practiced in the Middle East. But, as compared to many of the other religions practiced here, or to the non-practice of religion entirely, it’s sorely lacking. Too many Christians here try to enforce their religious dogma through the force of law to make it “the best religious game in town”. Ironically, that’s the same thing they complain about Muslims doing in the Middle East, all the while many Christians here are trying to do the same thing.

  4. Federalist says:

    I think it is safe to say that fundamentalist christians are a greater threat to america than fundamentalist muslims. Even if they are not fundamentalist christians…but just just white protestant males. Look at the most successful terrorists/terrorist organizations in american history. You know: the Timothy McVeighs and ted kaczynskis, the KKK, David Koresh, the Charles whitmans, the eric robert rudolphs…how many times have they attacked america? and al-qaida has only attacked the us 2 times…but they are different, they do not look like republicans…so naturally people are duped into being affraid of them (muslims). If anything is going to hold this country back even further, it is going to be christianity. Just look at the world of science. The history of science even, it is littered with scientific fact destroying miracles…because of the wonders of common sense.

  5. You guys bashing Christians need to remember that it is because of the Christian faith as practiced by most of the Founding Fathers that we enjoy freedom in this country. It was their rejection of state sponsored religion that gave us religious freedom. It was their understanding of Locke (and Locke’s understanding of the Bible) that gives us the right to own property. Where do you think Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness comes from? Atheism? Hardly.

    There are many modern Christians that need to be taken to task but to lump all Christians down through history in with a few wackos (I never heard most of those people Federalist labels as “Christians” profess anything approaching the Christians faith) is simple minded and flat out wrong.

  6. jsm says:

    I hate how the term “Christianity” has been defined in modern society. It’s original definition is “to be Christ-like.” Christ wouldn’t force his religious dogma on anyone.

    And Fed, fundamentalist Christians are not operating terrorist training camps and devising plans to destroy America and kill its citizens. The murderers and hatemongers you mention are separate entities with specific agendas–not members of one radical religious movement that aspires to terrorize and rule the world.

    Speaking of the world of science, remember that the Bible led to the discovery of ocean currents, states that the earth is spherical, explains the hydrologic cycle and hydrothermal vents, mentions wind patterns–I could go on. This was all written hundreds of years before ‘science’ discovered these things. There are debates regarding miracles and creation between the ‘scientific’ community and the Bible, but the fact that the Bible led to many universally accepted scientific discoveries cannot be denied.

    Some discoverers of note who were Christians: Louis Pasteur, Galileo Galilei, Johannes Kepler, Nicolaus Copernicus, Marie Curie, William Harvey, Carl Gauss, Alexander Fleming, Robert Boyle. This is just a short list. There were many more.

    Christians are no threat to this society, but rather have advanced it throughout history. We desire to see America thrive and remain a sovereign power for good in the world.

  7. Will Hinton says:

    As a Christian, I don’t really have a problem with some of the negative attitudes displayed here towards Christians. Those negative attitude exist for a reason – Christians helped create them.

    I would encourage you guys to listen to the interview so that you might realize that some of us are just as disturbed by the current trends of “family values” “Christian Coalition” sort of thinking.

  8. Federalist says:

    ray…what moral code? that is why this book was written…because your people worship and praise this stuff publicly and then go home to have extramarital affairs and live in excess. I have an ethical code, as do most atheists. There is no question that a person on a blog will drive you to renounce your faith. It just will not happen. Ray the kkk switched parties…did you forget?

  9. Bill Simon says:

    Buzz,

    Not sure I comprehend your claim that because of the “Christianity our Founding Fathers practiced that we enjoy freedom in this country.”

    Israel is a democratic, rule-of-law state, yet it is not Christian.

    India is a democratic, rule-of-law state, yet it was not founded by Christians.

    The “freedom” in this country is practiced by us today because our Founding Fathers actually REJECTED the Christianity of their day as a basis for operating ANY society.

    Not to bash Christians, Buzz, but I don’t think you quite understand the basis for this country and the US Constitution. Nowhere in the Constitution do I see a glimmer of anything based on a religion, Christian or otherwise.

  10. David says:

    Federalist, I think “it’s safe to say” that you are completely nuts to believe that fundamentalist Christians are as dangerous as fundamentalist Islamists!! Let’s compare body counts over the last 35 years since the radical Islamic pieces of s**t began their most famous act of killing the Israeli athletes in ’72. Since the beginning of that act in the modern terrorist movement, the Islamists have killed literally thousands. And they continue their attacks against targets, Christian or other, overseas everyday. Citing your Christian examples over the same time period, you truly cannot compare body counts. And Koresh didn’t kill or attack anybody, the ATF attacked HIM him and torched dozens of children. Nice try, though.

  11. TPSoCal says:

    I am a very conservative Christian and I do not match any descriptions on this board. I do not hate anyone. I support gay rights and I condem any violence done in the name of Christ. I am pro-life, but would never support acts of intimidation or violence against those on the other side of the issue. While I am a conservative Republican, I know many who are just as dedicated that are very liberal Democrats. I disagree with them politically, but we worship God together with one faith.

    And while Christ may not FORCE His “dogma” on others, He also never backed down from the truth He taught.

    I never quite understood how some atheists could have so much fervor for something they believed did not exsist. Oh well.

  12. GodHatesTrash says:

    There’s not much difference between a fundie Muslim and a fundie Christian. Both are superstitious and gullible, which is fine, until the point they try to inflict their stupidity, fear, hatred, and misanthropy on others, especially violently.

    Unfortunately, Muslim fundies are better educated, better funded, and better organized than Kkkhristian fundies. They also have an occupying force in their region to galvanize their resolve, which American Kkkhrito-fascists have to invent. Also, in America there are other religions and sects, and atheists, that force better behavior on Kkkhristians, although you will all note that the most violent, crime-ridden areas of our nattion are areas where fundamentalist Kkkhristianity is strongest.

  13. TPSoCal says:

    GHT,

    There is no need for such hateful rhetoric. I am a fundementalist Christian and I take extreme offense to the kkk bit. I have NEVER advocated hate. In fact, you show more hate in your one post then I have ever seen among my fellow believers. Grow up and get some sense. Why is it acceptable for Christians to endure hate speech such as the above? If you mentioned any other group, you would be arrested for a hate crime, but direct it at my faith and no problem. I feel very sorry that you are so filled with hate, that you feel the need to spew such venom.

  14. GodHatesTrash says:

    TP – looks likes it’s time for you to come up with some of that famous Christian kindness and turn the other cheek, old buddy! You know – forgive me!

    Get that log out of your eye first, ain’t that the rule?

  15. TPSoCal says:

    Actually GHT, there is nothing to forgive. I hope you meet some Christians in the future that might change your opinion.

    Take care.

  16. jsm says:

    “Muslim fundies are better educated”

    Yeah, they demonstrate that as they hurl rocks at one another and whoop like wild banshees. The strap-on bombs are a pretty good indication, too.

    “although you will all note that the most violent, crime-ridden areas of our nattion are areas where fundamentalist Kkkhristianity is strongest.”

    You sure about that, Trash?
    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_05.html

    You’re a bottomless pit.

  17. David says:

    We can all debate here whether or not this country was founded on the Christian model of religion or whether it wasn’t. It is really not particularly relevant. The FACT
    is, however, that our country, the greatest in the history of, well, history, is and has developed into, an overwhelmingly majority CHRISTIAN nation (to the tune of an 84 percent majority, according to the latest stats). As Frank Perdue used to say in his chicken commercial, “Parts is parts”, well, “Facts is facts!” To those Christian bashers whose blood boils at that fact, too bad!

  18. Paul Shuford says:

    The problem is that the Christian majority seeks to inflict it’s religious dogma on the rest of us as law, and we all have to deal with the fallout of their doing so. The Temperance movement that brought about Prohibition was almost entirely a Christian phen0menon, and the kind of crime and lawlessness that plagued our society during Prohibition was a result of their short-sighted moralism. Similarly, our current War on Drugs does the same thing, it funds terrorism, gangs, and most of the violent criminality that exists in this country. And, it’s supported primarily by Christians, as the first attempt at Prohibition in this country was. Their short-sighted moralism has again created a lawless black market within our cities and communities, and all of us have to deal with the consequences of such.

  19. David says:

    Paul, this might surprise you but I agree with you 100 %. The War on Drugs has turned into a war on our Constitutional mandated freedoms and prohibition didn’t work then and wouldn’t work in the future. I defend the Christian religion because over the last generation or so, it has been constantly attacked and many of those those who practice it are relentlessly harassed. Most Christians are very, very tolerant of those who have different beliefs. You want to worship Buddha, great, Mohammed? fine. You want to be a tree-hugging Druid? Knock yourselves out! Most religions set down guidelines for peaceful societal behavior. And we most certainly need that. This nation will tolerate it and more. Please just give those who practice Christianity the same courtesy.

  20. GOPeach says:

    As a licensed counselor, I have often helped families get through shock and trauma of illnesses and death. I have been in the room and observed uncountable people pass away over the last 30 years. This experience alone will make a believer out of you!

    Aethiest are the ones crying out to God the most!
    They pretty much talk a good game until the time to meet their Maker..

    That is the “tipping point” for everyone. Everyone reading this blog will face that moment of Truth. They can reason away the possiblilities all they want but I promise you –
    the day will come when they will not be so-
    Anti ( against) – Christ and His loving kindness.

    I do not see Jesus ( Yeshuah) as religious, stuffy, not cool, uneducated, etc… I see Him as One who leads us the Way to Life.

  21. Federalist says:

    More Kool-Aid GOPeach? I have heard about people feeling guilty and wanting to cover their bases before they die…just in case, but come on.

  22. Paul Shuford says:

    David,

    I think that Christians protesteth too much about being “relentlessly harrassed”. If 84 percent of the US population is Christian, then who is doing the “harrassing”, the remaining 16 percent? If they are actually 84 percent of the population, why would that “harrassment” matter?

    While you may be very tolerant of others, there are plenty of Christians who aren’t, and these are the people who are continuing the WoD and are trying to inflict other points of their religious dogma on others, to the point of destroying our Constitutional rights.

  23. Paul Shuford says:

    The fundamental right all Americans have to be free of government that goes beyond it’s Constitutional mandates.

  24. Paul Shuford says:

    You don’t think the War on Drugs is the government overstepping it’s Constitutional mandate, and, in the process, creating a black market that fuels terrorism and most of the violent criminality in this country?

    At one time, we at least acknowledged that it would require a Constitutional Amendment for the US government to enforce Prohibition. They do it now by simply usurping authority that they don’t have.

  25. Federalist says:

    I do not hate any group of people. Just a few individuals. I am not prejudice either…i just judge. I have been around long enough to have heard your tired stories…they are no different than the one used 40…even 50 years ago. They are just a little more politically correct.

  26. GOPeach says:

    Paul –

    I agree with you on this issue.

    How does this tie into this thread about Christians?????

    Speaking of drugs-
    I did more work with drug abuse in Gilmer Co.
    than in Fulton. There is more crystal meth in
    Ellijay than you would believe –

    Let’s clean up our own backyard in GA before taking on the fed gov.

  27. jackson says:

    whats funny is this post is about the interview/book call “UnChristian” yet many of you assumed the content of the interview/book without even reading or listening, and completely disgressed into a conversation that the book talks about is the one of the reason there is a perception problems of Christians. Whats even worse is that some of you assume that it is a book bashing on Christians, when it was written by two guys that are major players in evangelical circles.

  28. Will Hinton says:

    As an evangelical Christian, I agree with the negative perceptions that some of you have towards Christians. We deserve them.

    It is obvious that many of you haven’t bothered to listen to the interview. If those of you who are Christians did, you might just stop with the “America is a Christian nation” nonsense and show a little humility please.

  29. jsm says:

    Nonsense, Will? That was either a poor choice of word or a demonstration of misunderstanding. Humility is one thing; laying down while being mowed over is another.

  30. Paul Shuford says:

    GOPeach,

    It ties into a thread about Christians because Christians are the primary supporters of the War on Drugs, just as they were the primary supporters and initiators of Prohibition. Their desire to meddle in the lives of others and force them to live by their moral standards using the power of the State and Federal Governments is what started Prohibition and what has started and continued the War on Drugs, creating the unintended consequences of a violent black market that funds criminals, criminal organizations, and terrorism, just as the original Prohibition did. And we’re all suffering because of it.

  31. dingleberry says:

    I hate athiests. Most athiests I know are the biggest a**holes in the world. I offer exhibits A (GodHatesTrash) and B (Federalist) as evidence.

    Both of you are worthless pieces of dog sh*t.

  32. GodHatesTrash says:

    Gosh, dingleberry, I am a Christian.

    I just don’t think that Jesus would have anything to do with you evangelikkkal morons. He hated hypocrites.

  33. dingleberry says:

    Bullcrap, GHT! Bullcrap. You’re a blood-sucking, hate-filled athiest! Quit trying to pull your crap on here. You’re not fooling anyone. You HATE Jesus! You and Federalist enjoy your one bedroom apartment in HELL!!!

  34. jsm says:

    “…because Christians are the primary supporters of the War on Drugs, just as they were the primary supporters and initiators of Prohibition.”

    This is true because many Christians believe verses like this one–“Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance. – Psalm 33:12”–support making laws regarding morality.

    The average Joe thinks that laws should be enacted against everything he’s against. He has no real idea of the purpose of government or of the Founders’ intentions, and no one with a national audience is standing up and saying that promoting a moral code is the job of the church and not the government. Until someone explains this to average citizens and Sadie Fields, we will continue to have legislative morality wars in America.

  35. Federalist says:

    I am not an a$$hole. Judge not lest ye be judged. Isn’t that the garbage your church teaches you dingleberry?

  36. dingleberry says:

    You are an a$$hole, Federalist. You’re an elitist SOB. I can’t wait to see that little elitist smirk wiped off your face when Satan shoves a pineapple up you a$$.

    In hell, they think of everything. Even the Coffee is cold. Enjoy your one bedroom apartment in HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  37. Will Hinton says:

    jsm said: “Humility is one thing; laying down while being mowed over is another.”

    I completely disagree. I actually do think Christians are called to lie down even in the face of intense persecution (which this isn’t).

    Christians are NOT called to fight a “culture war”. There is nothing Christian about that idea.

  38. Federalist says:

    Dingleberry

    Hell does not exist…what part of that do you not understand?

    I am not an elitist. I may be part of what you would call the elite…but I am a democrat. You know, that party that supports welfare programs and providing affordable healthcare for the poor and uninsured…etc. So what if I take advantage of the status I made for myself.

  39. jsm says:

    “I actually do think Christians are called to lie down even in the face of intense persecution…”

    Where can I find that?

  40. dingleberry says:

    JSM,

    PREACH IT BROTHER!!!

    Tell these infernal athiests that HELL doesn’t have a “no vacancy” policy. There’s plenty of room for them in HELL, cause that’s where they are going. Pederalist and GodHatesTrash and Will Hinton are going to be sharing a one bedroom apartment in HELL!!! Have fun drinking cold coffee and having pineapples shoved up your anuses. HELL is NO FUN AT ALL!!!!

  41. dingleberry says:

    Who?

    EXACTLY, JSM! All these infernal athiests want to do is try to confuse us with obscure references to unimportant thinkers. In other words, they want to make us athiests as well.

    Stand strong JSM. Guess where rugby_fan’s line of thought will land you a ticket to:

    HELL!

    You’ll share a one bedroom apartment, drink cold coffee and have pineapples placed ever so gently into your anus in HELL!!!

    Don’t share that apartment with Pederalist, GHT, and Rugby_Fan. Stand strong JSM.

    HELL is NO FUN AT ALL.

    HELL sucks.

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