43 comments

  1. Doug Deal says:

    zzzzzzzzzz..Page 128, paragraph 3 from the DNC talking points manual. …zzzzzzzzzzz

    Come up with your own thought once in a while Day.

  2. Doug Deal says:

    Jeff,

    You are asking to much of him if you expect that he will burn calories thinking about this Jeff. He simply inserted a random talking point.

  3. Federalist says:

    Gosh darnit the heck! Why is it that the christian right has to divide people? They are not interested in the preservation of the union, and are fundamentally un-American. Get over the abortion thing people, it is not a big deal.

  4. GOPeach says:

    Jeff-

    This is the one issue I will never take lightly.

    I am very thankful that you are keeping this issue alive! Now if only we can keep the precious little children alive until they get a chance to live outside the womb.

    Federalist-

    We are ONE NATION UNDER GOD. To ” Get Over the Abortion Thing” is to Get Over God.
    The Abortion Thing is His Thing!

    If there is ONE SOCIAL ISSUE that matters most to God … It’s the life of the inocent!

  5. Doug Deal says:

    GOPeach,

    So, you claim to know the mind of God? When is the next time we need to get together to stone to death gays and prostitutes?

    I think god would probably have a bigger issue with you proclaiming to be his prophet.

  6. Federalist says:

    GOPeach,

    Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence, or anything written by the Federalists (constitutionalists)? I do not think you have, otherwise you would know that the god refered to by the fathers was “nature’s god” (aka Human Reason and science). Furthermore, what about the innocent lives lost everyday in the wars that you support? Do they not count? And you do make a point…get over god…she does not belong in government.

  7. Jeff Emanuel says:

    (1) Federalist, come back when you’ve learned something from your high school gov’t/civcs class

    (2) GOPeach, it’s not me, it’s David Kirby. Thank him.

  8. Federalist says:

    Jeff Emanuel,
    what a pathetic response. you know I am right, and you are obviously angry. I am not a high school student…you know that. Write back when you start thinking for yourself.

  9. jsm says:

    Federsocialist, you don’t want to have the argument about God and the Founding Fathers. We’ve already done that:

    http://www.peachpundit.com/2006/10/06/2405/#comment-34155

    http://www.peachpundit.com/2006/09/25/christians-and-the-republican-party-in-georgia/#comments

    Rather than telling people to start thinking for themselves, you need to do a little reading.

    I know you guys get tired of hearing this, but an unborn baby is a life that should be protected. However, the subject of this thread is illegal activity. Apparently, some haven’t yet realized that.

  10. Federalist says:

    So life begins at conception, and ends at birth…is that what you are all saying? I know that is what Falwell thought.

  11. Jeff Emanuel says:

    Heh. What a pathetic straw man. Frankly, I haven’t heard you actually say anything that any of us could “know [you’re] right” about. All I’ve heard is thoughtless drivel with no point; surely you can do better than that.

  12. Federalist says:

    Well…I cite things. Citing previous works gives credibility to an argument. Obviously certain works do not add credibility to an argument…like the Bible. Some call this empiricism…others call it blasphemy. Furthermore…screw you you f*cking moron. I can not communicate with you people anymore. The only reason I have not mentioned my profession is because of screw balls like you. I left a teaching position at a high school b/c you imbecile parents do not want your kids to learn about things that are not in line with your precious religion. Fortunately the university system is a lot more reasonable, but exceptions exist. Good luck with the apolcalypse and stealing money from kool-aid drinking evangelicals that think god actually wants 10% of their income. There is honestly no way to reason with you people. I am glad that I am only going to be around for another 10 or 20 years, I seriously am afraid of what fascist plans the GOP and christian right will come up with next. Screw peachpundit, screw the evangelical right, to hell with Reagan and Jerry Falwell, the world is not flat, nor is it the center of the universe. Peace.

  13. Jmac says:

    Too many things to comment on …

    • How is Rick Day’s initial comment a ‘talking point’ from the DNC?

    • That said, that article isn’t ‘Christian propaganda.’

    That said, while some of those practices, if verified, are deplorable, I don’t know why this would be an indictment against the pro-choice movement. It would appear to be, instead, some mispractices by this particular organization. Extending those faults to the entire pro-choice movement is guilt by association and not terribly credible.

    That said, I’m not a member of the pro-choice movement.

    • Jeff, I’m not sure why you apparently dispute Federalist’s initial claim regarding the Declaration of Independence. Though I have no desire to delve into the ‘Are we a Christian nation?’ debate, your retort doesn’t seem to work for me. Primarily because a basic review of a high school civics class would reveal that we were founded based on the principle of religious freedom with a population that featured a Christian majority.

    • Federalist is irrationally angry, and it’s partially amusing.

  14. Holly says:

    Good heavens, you can’t communicate with us because you blow up, sir. There’s a way to debate rationally with people, including the “kool-aid drinking evangelicals that (should be who) think God actually wants 10% of their income” – which includes me.

    See, you basically lose your argument when you blow up and start name calling. If you’re leaving the web site, I don’t think it hurts anyone here. I certainly get along with the rational liberals, like Spacey, here, but it’s hard to respect a person who has no respect for me.

    I’m sorry you left teaching, but you know what? So did I. I will talk on the subject whenever it comes up at PP to communicate problems I see in education. I think because I stood up in front of a classroom, that gives me a unique perspective that most politicians and political bloggers don’t have. You would bring that same perspective to such discussions.

    However, I don’t criticize the people on this site for having different opinions; I debate their opinions and I don’t get mad. I don’t call them names. It’s a discussion, sir, and people are allowed to have differing opinions. Differing opinions don’t make a person un-American, a moron, or a fascist. Making wild accusations like that is where you lose us, Federalist.

  15. Nicki says:

    First, there’s no point in discussing abortion with people who consider adult women equal to undetectable collections of cells, or to be more accurate who don’t really care if they’re equal as long as adult women cease being autonomous beings as soon as they’re pregnant.

    Second, Rose is not an actual minor. So, while Planned Parenthood appears to have acted improperly it doesn’t really matter — no crime was committed against a fictitious patient. Third, as Planned Parenthood makes clear, it’s not official policy to counsel women to falsify their information — and anyone who pretends it is is being dishonest. Fourth, in this case Planned Parenthood is as much in league with pedophiles as are most state DFCS agencies — who don’t tend to initiative prosecution of statuatory rape unless there is a formal complaint. They failed to report a reported situation. Fifth, I find it hilarious when antiabortion groups wring their hands about the welfare of pregnant teens when their purpose is only related to the outcome of pregnant teens’ pregnancies.

  16. Doug Deal says:

    Jmac,

    It is a talking point because it is one of the many mindless statements that the left throws out to attack the credibility of an article without bothering to contribute an original thought.

    Why does he think it Christian propaganda? What is inaccurate about it, even it it is propaganda, that means we should disregard it?

    He has no intent to discuss this in any meaningful way, he just wants to dismiss it because what it states is painful to his side.

  17. Jmac says:

    Doug, fair enough, but I don’t think I’d characterize it as a DNC talking point. Being the good Democrat that I am, I attend lots of various functions and get lots of solicitation pieces, and we honestly don’t use lines like ‘Christian propaganda.’

    Now, you see that on liberal blogs and from liberal pundits, sure, but it would be a misrepresentation to say it’s a standard ‘talking point’ from the left. There are legitimate talking points employed by the DNC and elsewhere, and I roll my eyes at lots of them just as I do for Republican talking points.

    Of course, now I’m splitting hairs over sementics, so forgive me.

    Nicki, I need you to explain your third point for me. It would seem to me that the article expressed that a staff member or two, perhaps operating independently, did encourage the undercover reporter to falsify some age information.

    While there may be no official policy which covers such a thing, that’s fairly troubling, is it not? Again, I’m not saying it’s an indictment of the pro-choice movement (or even Planned Parenthood), but there would appear to be some serious questions and concerns here.

  18. Nicki says:

    JMac, my point is that Planned Parenthood hasn’t been proven to officially and consistently encourage underaged abortion seekers to falsify their information. If they did, it would be a matter of concern regarding Planned Parenthood as an organization. As it is, it’s a cause for concern regarding certain employees at a certain location of Planned Parenthood. But it is not an indictment of Planned Parenthood in general.

  19. Doug Deal says:

    jmac,

    I had no idea that you were a Democrat, and when that happens (even with Republicans), the respect that I have for a person grows. More people need to form their own opinions, and not just parot the same message to fake solidarity.

  20. jsm says:

    Nicki, adult women and fetuses (I assume this is what you mean by “undetectable collections of cells”) have one very important thing in common – human life. The cells you mention are typically in a constantly improving state as they approach the ability to function outside the womb, which is often possible before the date of birth. I get very tired of being disparaged because of my view, which is based on science. If you choose not to discuss an issue with me due to my scientifically informed view, which may differ from yours, you exhibit a closed mind. I can accept that.

  21. Nicki says:

    I assume this is what you mean by “undetectable collections of cells”

    It is not — it is what I said, and what is scientifically identifiable as the first stages of pregnancy. That being the stages when it is not even possible to identify the pregnancy and when the chances of miscarriage are highest. In other words it’s the best example of the absurdity of the undeveloped potential child = adult woman argument.

    The cells you mention are typically in a constantly improving state as they approach the ability to function outside the womb, which is often possible before the date of birth.

    Yes, but neither you nor I know when that is, or if the cells in question will even become a child. But the antiabortion view is one that equates two things which are not equal, removes the basic right to self-determination from women and the right to medical privacy from everyone, and quite frankly plays God with private lives. I’m not a fan.

    In a related note, I’d be a lot more impressed with the antiabortion movement if it concentrated on eliminating the need for abortion and not simply removing the legal right of a woman to obtain one. Just imagine if women were not raped, abused, uneducated, denied birth control, or coerced into becoming pregnant. Or if we as a society had a better means of guaranteeing that children who are born can be assured of safety and a bright future. Wouldn’t that be cool?

  22. Jmac says:

    Thanks Nicki. I would agree with that general assessment as well (I think I awkwardly worded something similar).

    Thanks for the kind words Doug. Listen, I’m a good progressive, but I don’t like spin and I don’t march blindly. I like to think of myself as fairly pragmatic and flexible, with a central ideological commitment to a particular set of values and beliefs.

    I like to start with a central belief (say, helping the poor) and find the most logical and effective to make that a reality. More often than not, I end up on the Democratic side of things, but I also end on the conservative side on some things (free trade would be one, abortion probably another … though I subscribe to a wholly different means than the current pro-life movement).

  23. jsm says:

    Nicki, I agree with you that the pro-life groups should work against rape, incest, abuse, etc., which lead to abortion decisions. I know some that do. About 13,000 women and girls annually have abortions due to rape or incest–that’s just under 1% of the 1.31 million that occur in the U.S. 3-5%, depending on the source, have abortions because of the mother’s health problems. Even with the “3 exceptions,” 94-96% of abortions could be avoided.

    I also agree that determining exactly when human life begins is difficult. However, in 2000, the CDC reported that 77% of abortions happen at 6 weeks gestation or later. I feel confident that human life exists in the unborn baby at this point.

    Sources:
    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904509.html
    http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm

    The pro-abortion argument seems almost always to reference rare cases.

    It would be great if society had a way to guarantee that every child born could be assured of a bright future, but that’s like guaranteeing that life will be fair. It will never happen. I think it would be cool if everyone who decided to have sex would be responsible enough to deal with the possible consequences. This will never happen, either.

  24. GOPeach says:

    Federalist wrote:

    ” Screw peachpundit, screw the evangelical right, to hell with Reagan and Jerry Falwell..”

    Well today Jery Falwell has joined President Reagan in Heaven – not hell!!!

    I did not always with Rev. Falwell, but I admired his wilingness to stand tall and declare his faith without appology. My prayers are with his dear family and friends.

  25. GOPeach says:

    How there be a death if “it” was never alive?

    I will support any law maker that would call children muredered by way of abortion to issued a death certificate from the Sec. of State.

    I would like to see women post these abortions in the obituaries to give dignity to the slain.

  26. JasonW says:

    I have to say that David did not disappoint in his article. Abortion isn’t my issue, but it was good nonetheless.

    On the Jerry Falwell issue…I take Barry Goldwater’s position on Jerry Falwell. 🙂

  27. GOPeach says:

    Well sorta …

    I am married to a Jewish man. My kids are Jewish. But we all believe Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah foretold in the Jewish Scriptures.

    I guess you can say we are “Jews for Jesus”.

  28. Doug Deal says:

    I thought by Jewish law, the mother had to be Jewish for the children to be Jewish.

    Anyway, isn’t what you describe the very definition of a Christian.

  29. GOPeach says:

    I have heard it said we should all back off of the gay marriage and abortion thing so in 20 years there will be no more liberals.

    There’s a thought.

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