Your Privacy is Invading Our Public

From the Georgia Chamber Talking Points emailed out this weekend…

Fact Check: Responding to the NRA’s hysterical (and false) attacks on business
The NRA says SB 43 is good … NRA members not so sure!
What the NRA says is one thing … NOW read what NRA members say! And members of the Georgia Sports Shooting Association – the official NRA state affiliate – say!
· If you start regulating what people can and cannot do on his own private property, you’re playing quite the dangerous game with definitions, the law, and what remains of your Constitutional Rights. Tread lightly.

Gun owners, above all people, should cherish and fight for individual rights. Especially the rights of people to do what they want with their own property. Regardless if it is open to the public or not, it is still their property and they should be allowed to make the rules.
· Gotta agree. It seems to me that a person’s right to self-defense/right to bear arms doesn’t trump a person’s private property rights. It also seems to me that a person’s rights as a private property owner don’t trump a person’s right to bear arms.
· If you are a business owner, you are a property owner. If your employer does not want you leaving weapons in your automobile that is parked on his property then either don’t do it, or find another job.
Your right to carry does NOT trump another’s property rights. Period.
· The “law’ you crave is premised on every leftist concept about curtailing private property rights since the New Deal … My property, my terms — you don’t like it, don’t come to my house, my business, my apartment building, whatever. It is a big world.

Thoughts?  Comments?


  1. Demonbeck says:

    I am not saying which way I lean, but I wanted to get the ball rolling again on this issue and I don’t get NRA email alerts.

    Call me liberal.

  2. Erick says:

    I’ll say again that I think this is a solution in search of a problem.

    Employers should be able to set the rules of conduct on their own property. This law would take away the rights of an owner of private property to regulate conduct on their own land.

  3. Doug Deal says:

    I think private property rights pretty much trump almost all other rights, save those that related to your own person. Why are people that generally consider themselves conservative so willing to curtail personal freedom for pet causes?

    From smoking bans to guns in cars, the Republican’s are looking more and more like the party they displaced.

  4. atlantaman says:

    I’m a big 2nd Amendment guy and agree with the NRA on 99% of their stuff, but I have to agree that private property rights should trump gun rights.

  5. Dawgfan says:

    I ran into a lobbyist friend over the weekend. He tells me it’s pretty much devolved into a pissing contest between the Chamber and the NRA. The NRA can have pretty much any thing they want, but for some reason they want to put all there resources and their reputation on the line for something as stupid and inconsequential as this.

  6. dingleberry says:

    The true headline to this blog should be: “Chamber of Commerce Suddenly Decides to Respect Private Property Rights”

  7. StevePerkins says:

    I think the NRA is just taking a philosophy of the best defense being a good offense. As long as we’re arguing about whether or not my employer can stop my from carrying in the office, we’re NOT arguing about whether the government can stop me from carrying in my own home. I’m as pro-2nd Amendment as they come, yet I agree with others here that property rights trump all. However, I’d rather be having this debate than the one we were having in the early 90’s.

  8. Demonbeck says:

    Why fight this fight in Georgia then Steve? There is no chance of any negative gun legislation passing this General Assembly.

    Go somewhere where problems might arise and use your good offense to keep negative bills from passing.

  9. RuralDem says:

    I wonder what implications this will have with the NRA and their ratings system? With all of the hype over this issue, will it cause some constant A+ and/or endorsed candidates to lose their rating if they vote against the NRA is this legislation?

  10. StevePerkins says:

    The NRA isn’t a traveling circus that roams from hot-spot to hot-spot… it’s a national organization with chapters in all 50 states. Just because the really “interesting” action may be happening in the D.C. Court of Appeals this week doesn’t mean that the entire organization descends upon Washington to stand around and be supportive. No, they remain in the own states and focus on their own action items to make sure their area never ends up as bad off as D.C.

  11. StevePerkins says:

    Maybe it’s just me, but any legislator with a PERFECT “100%” or “A+” rating from any special interest group is someone I view with suspicion. All these groups go a step or two beyond what’s reasonable, to gain greater leverage for accomplishing the reasonable. If you’re on-board with EVERYTHING, you’re probably not thinking for yourself.

  12. dogface says:


    This is a letter from the vice president of the Georgia Sports Shooting Association, which is THE official NRA state affiliate for Georgia, sent to his fellow Board members of the GSSA.

    * * *

    From: Sgt. R. E. Thornton
    Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007
    Subject: SB – 43

    This is an “open letter” with all the GSSA BoD Cc’d.

    I think I have discussed with you in the past my opposition to the so-called parking lot bill. I have been bombarded over the last 2-3 days by the NRA urging me to call my Senators and voice my support for SB-43.

    Well, today I did call them, all six on NRA’s list. I told them that I OPPOSE this bill and hope they will find some way to kill it. I told each of them that NRA did NOT consult with it’s “Official State Assn.” before bringing this bill forward.

    I told each of them that I OPPOSE SB – 43 because it violates property rights. And, for 30+ years I have been fighting the infringement of MY right to own guns. Now, I believe that if a property owner’s right to his property are not valid, then pretty soon somebody will tell me that MY RIGHT to own and shoot guns ON MY OWN PROPERTY are NOT valid either!

    If the government can tell some business owner that he has no right to control who comes on his property, then how can we oppose the government when it tells us we have no right to hunt or shoot on OUR property?

    In the past 10 to 15 years, just in the 10th District, I have had to fight County Commissioners who wanted to ban shooting in Clarke, Oglethorpe (twice), and Madison Counties. Also, just about 3 years ago a similar fight was waged by GSSA Directors in Forsyth County. In every case, our argument has been, ” WE HAVE A RIGHT TO HUNT AND SHOOT ON OUR OWN PROPERTY!”

    PROPERTY RIGHTS are critical to the protection of our Second Amendment RIGHTS!

    Anyone who does not understand that property rights and Second Amendment rights are BOTH endangered by this bill really doesn’t understand what our Founding Fathers were about.

    If your boss doesn’t allow guns on his property, LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB!!!

    … GSSA was NOT consulted prior to the introduction of SB-43. That this bill has NOT come UP from the “grass roots”. But, instead has been pushed down from NRA HQ in Washington D.C. I wish that you would also advise them that not all of GSSA Directors support this bill and in fact, if the NRA had brought the bill to the GSSA before the session, there would have been a spirited OPPOSITION on the GSSA Board of Directors to this ill-conceived idea.

    Semper Fi

    R. E. Thornton
    10th Congressional District Director,
    Georgia Sport Shooting Association

    * * *

    R. E. “Bob” Thornton enlisted as a Private in the U.S. Marine Corps, reaching the rank of Captain before retiring.

    Thornton holds a degree from the University of Georgia. He served as a Deputy Sheriff, Police Firearm Instructor, and Chief of Police.

    Today Bob is in the home security business. He continues to honor the Oath he took at Parris Island to “…defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic …” He said, “The Constitution has domestic enemies. But the best way to fight them is to accept the responsibilities of Citizenship: vote, serve on Juries, and communicate with your Elected Officials.”

    * * *

    The Georgia Sports Shooting Association is the official state affiliate of the National Rifle Association of America.

    GSSA’s 1st Principle

    GSSA believes that government must not infringe on the fundamental right of individual citizens to choose to keep and bear arms for a variety of reasons; including hunting, collecting, competitive shooting, recreation, historical re-enactment and personal protection. GSSA acts in defense, support and furtherance of this belief.

    GSSA maintains a full time presence at the capitol during the Georgia legislative session, lobbying for your Second Amendment rights and pursuing enactment of pro-gun legislation.

  13. MountainThinker says:

    just one question…isn’t my automibile my personal property? Why can’t I have domain over My private property as well? I would argue that there are three categories; public property (parks, gov’t buildings, etc.), Personal property (businesses primarily) and Private property (personal residences/property). The personal property, by it’s chosen use by the owner interacts with the public. As such, there are standards that must be upheld accordingly. While there is no court that can order me to allow African-Americans (or anyone else of any race, creed, color, sexual orientation, etc) into my house, try barring those same people from the restaurant/bar you own and see what happens!

    Human rights trump property rights. I happen to believe that the right to bear arms is an essential human right, as the ability to defend one’s life and property from unlawful search, seizure, or forfeiture is THE fundamental assurance of liberty. As such, I feel that my automobile is my property, and that anything locked within it that is a legal item should have a right to be there, otherwise my employer is saying that I have to be unarmed on my way to work, on my way from work, and at any point along those paths. He/she/they have no right to establish that. If they want us to bring them in and check them at the door…I could go for that, but otherwise my gun stays in my locked car, which for this concealed carry permit owner, I consider a compromise! LOL

  14. Demonbeck says:

    Mountain Thinker,

    You are choosing to go to work. Being employed is not an essential human right.

    You do not have to work and your employer does not have to employ you. When you bring your property onto his/her privately owned property, you do so at his/her discretion and with her/his permission.

  15. Larry says:

    There needs to be some clarity and definition here. With a Georgia Gun Permit a person is allowed to take a concealed gun into a store, shopping mall or gas station. They are all private property. I don’t believe there is a provision in the law which says “unless the property owner doesn’t want you to”. There seems to be ambiguity in others areas of the law as well. No carrying where alcohol is served or pubic buildings.

    The laws seem to already be permitting guns on other people’s private property. SB 43 doesn’t seem to be breaking any new ground to me, just expanding on the violation of private property rights.

  16. CHelf says:

    Mountain Thinker,

    Just because you bring your car on my property that does not mean you can do what you want on my property. I can have your private property towed from my private property. If you crank up your radio, I can have the police pursue disturbance of the peace. Your rights exist until they interfere or violate my rights.

    You cannot just come on someone’s property and say your rights supercede the property rights of the property owner. Using the power of the govcernment to do so might as well condone expansion of eminent domain.

    Would you allow me to come use my free speech rights on your land? Can the Klan come burn a cross on your property? What about Cindy Sheehan? Can she assemble and demonstrate using her free speech rights? What about Rev. Fred Phelps? Can he come hold a church service saying “God hates fags and George W Bush’s war” on your property?

  17. Bull Moose says:

    Erick is right, this is a solution looking for a problem… This legislation wasn’t needed and those that introduced it should rethink what they are doing… I mean, if they are going to carry the water for the NRA on this issue, what about the rest of us?

    This is a very bad bill and will have negative consequences across this state.

    Call your Senator and Lt. Governor and tell them to kill this bill.

  18. Demonbeck says:

    “No carrying where alcohol is served or pubic buildings.”

    I’ve got a gun in my pubic building…and I don’t have a conceal and carry permit either!

  19. Demonbeck says:

    From the NRA,

    “Unfortunately, the Georgia Chamber of Commerce, Georgia Retail Federation and Georgia Association of Realtors, among others, are spreading lies about SB 43 and are working behind the scenes to attack your Right to Keep and Bear Arms…Big corporations such as UPS, CSX Transportation, AFLAC, WalMart, ReMax Realty, Century 21, Keller-Williams Realty, Mohawk Industries, Shaw Industries and the Georgia Traditional Manufacturers Association (GTMA), think they should have the right to dictate what you may have in your vehicle or force you to give up Constitutional rights as a condition of employment.”

    Well, since they employ pretty much all of Georgia…I guess they do have the right to dictate who is employed.

    Senator Douglas is wrong on this one, the NRA is acting more like a paranoid schizophrenic. (“Everyone is out to get us! Stockpile weapons in your K cars now!”)

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