The HPV Vaccine

I can take a lot. I figure that if I’m willing to throw darts, I should have thick skin when they get thrown back. But I can’t abide this.

Yesterday, in my post about Don Balfour, Bull Moose wrote:

Erick, I almost can’t believe that you are against a cancer vaccine.

First, I put a lot of emphasis on the word “almost.” So, Bull thinks I’m against cancer vaccine. I realize he probably comes unhinged on this subject given his health issues, but after the two months I just went through with my wife, I cannot fathom why any reasonable person would ever write such a thing. Rarely do I get bothered by a comment at Peach Pundit and when I have in the past, it’s been a comment about someone else. This doesn’t even bother me so much as totally anger me.

Let’s review who else is apparently against this cancer vaccine, shall we?

Well, we can start with the American College of Pediatricians, which is opposed to Don Balfour’s bill.

We can move to the American Medical Association, which doesn’t seem to think this drug should be mandated as a vaccine.

Today, we can move to the Chairman of the CDC’s committee on immunization practices.

That’s right Bull Moose and Don Balfour. The Chairman of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s advisory committee on immunization practices — the guy who sets national policy on immunization mandates — is opposed to Don Balfour’s legislation.

Deal with it. Oh, and yes I am so angry you should not expect to see Bull Moose on the front page of Peach Pundit again.

Technorati Tags: HPV vaccine

32 comments

  1. Chris says:

    This bill is such a bad idea I don’t know where to begin. Mandatory vaccinations are made mandatory to protect _others_, not the person getting the vaccine. It is do so when you and I are at kroger, I don’t give you smallpox or the mumps. There is no reason this bill should be mandatory, nor is there any reason to burden the parents with having to jump through the hoops to opt out.

    Second, this is the absolute worst form of rent-seeking I’ve seen in years. Getting the government to force every 12 year old girl to buy your product is immoral.

    Third, what are the unintended consequences of this bill? You’ve got dumb-assed kids who think Oral Sex isn’t sex. Next you’re gonna have some 13 year old say “Well, we can have [unsafe] sex because you’ve been vaccinated against STDs”.

    Make the vaccine available, make people aware its a good idea (although maybe not at 12), make is subsidized for low income if you must, but for the love of God, don’t make it mandatory.

  2. Joy says:

    Libertarian ideals do NOT break down in public health. What you’re referring to is Government Mandated. Libertarians firmly support private schools & organizations requiring vaccinations for participation.

  3. drjay says:

    if you are this upset about what he said perhaps the 2 of you should take the discussion between the 2 of you off the board and not berate eachother on a blog that other people read??

  4. Chris says:

    drjay:

    Its Erick’s blog. He can berate anyone he sees fit.

    There your eyeballs. You can point them at any blog you see fit.

  5. drjay says:

    i am well aware of the fact that it’s erick’s blog, i was not telling him what to do simply making a suggestion.

  6. GAWire says:

    Here’s my response:

    1. This legislation is not good policy, but despite that, most people debating it don’t fully understand the full scope of this issue.

    2. Bull really went overboard on this one. He didn’t understand what he was talking about and certainly didn’t think about his stupid comment. Goodbye. (Erick, don’t forget to remove him from the sidebar area).

    3. DrJay, if you don’t want to see “berating” on this blog, then I suggest you tread lightly my friend, and think before making stupid suggestions to the blog’s editor. You obviously aren’t acquainted with the facts, and probably should stay out of it.

  7. drjay says:

    you know nothing about me “GAwire” to know what “facts” i may or may not be privy to, by putting his comments in a post, further comment on the subject is invited–i just said that maybe he and bull could talk about w/out dozens of eyes and ears watching it ynfold–nothing more nothing less. good grief…

  8. CHelf says:

    Anyone check to see who has stock in a certain pharmaceutical company that is the only one to have this vaccine? Conspiracy, conspiracy.

  9. DougieFresh says:

    Bull is an an example of what is wrong with public policy these days.

    Policy is decided by the dictates of emotion, instead of reason. Whether it is global warming, gas prices, the war, obesity, trans fats, drugs or any number of a long list of “leading causes of x”.

    None of these issues merit desperate, drastic or draconian measures because there is no real emergency. However, the people who make these their pet issues, turn them into their religion, and thus take everything on faith, which is a very dangerous mix with the world of science.

  10. DougieFresh says:

    If a drug manufacturer thinks a drug is important enough to force people to take it at the point of the gun, at the bery least, the President should declare a state of emergency and nationalize the drug to make sure the crisis is abated in time.

    Conversely, if it is not a crisis, the drug company shouls perhaps do a better job of convincing people that it is worth the $400 a dose.

    If they want to be capitalists, let them be capitalist and force them to have voluntary customers. If they want to be socialists, let them forfeit their profits.

  11. Eric,

    Please don’t censor Bull Moose, you know as well as i do that you need people to challenge your thinking and motivate you to do the type of research as posted above. So, please don’t get in the habit of censoring people when they disagree with your position.

    I followed your wife’s illness here on PP and she was in my prayers. I wondered why you didn’t repetitively emphaisize research on our coal burning energy producer nearby and the Federal air quality mandate that we are under that may have contributed to her conditon.

    In the meantime, run Balfour’s contributor list to help us determine what his real motivation was/is on this issue. You might lose the potential to get Waffle House free passes but it will be worth it.

    thanks and be well buddy,
    Victor Jones
    Macon, Ga

  12. kspencer says:

    For the record, something about this article stinks, but I”m not sure if it’s the doctor misremembering himself or the Times selectively quoting.

    The CDC’s ACIP minutes for June of 2006 are at http://www.cdc.gov/nip/ACIP/minutes/acip-min-jun06.txt . In it, the decision of all but two of the panel members (Dr. Abramson being part of the majority) was that the panel would recommend routine vaccination of all girls ages 11-12, with language explaining the safety and reasons for vaccination as young as age 9. The phrasing, by the way, is the same language as used for justifying vaccination for MMR, polio, and several other diseases. Which, as any parent of a student in public school knows, is mandatory.

    Oh – yes, the test included children. That’s mentioned in the same minutes.

    Argue whether it’s a good plan or not, fine. And I appreciate good support on either side. But I thought I’d point out this particular evidence – the Washington Times article – is suspect.

  13. Erick et al,

    Here are just a few. Will research Individual Corporate Officers, Opaque PACS and associated Law Firms at a later date. Sorry to bother you guys with underlying facts:

    Candidate Name: Balfour II, Donald Kenneth
    State Senate District 9
    Sought Reports Registration Information
    FilerID Office C2006000169
    Year 2006 State Senate
    District 9

    http://www.ethics.ga.gov/Reports/Campaign/Campaign_Name.aspx?NameID=465&FilerID=C2006000169

    Merck & Co. Inc.
    Dupont-Merck Plaza
    Wilmington, DE 19880-1988
    09/08/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Philip Morris USA, Inc.
    120 Park Ave.
    New York, NY 10017-1001
    09/13/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Walgreens
    200 Wilmont Rd.
    Deerfield, IL 60015
    11/13/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Pharmacy Services Taxable, Inc.
    213 Third St. P.O. Box 63
    Macon, GA 31088
    10/10/2006
    Monetary $2,000.00

    Abbott Laboratories PAC
    100 Abbott Park Rd.
    Abbott Park, IL 60064-6028
    07/27/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Genentech, Inc.
    P.O. Box 9030
    San Francisco, CA 94083-9030
    08/24/2006
    Monetary $250.00

    GlaxoSmithKline, Inc.
    P.O. Box 13681
    Philadelphia, PA 19101-3661
    07/08/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Bayer Corporation
    100 Bayer Rd.
    Pittsburgh, GA 15205
    06/08/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Bristol-Myers Squibb Company
    P.O. Box 840769
    Houston, GA 77284
    05/10/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    GlaxoSmithKline, Inc.
    P.O. Box 13681
    Philadelphia, GA 19101-3661
    06/13/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Novartis Corp.
    One Health Plaza
    East Hanover, GA 07936-0793
    05/05/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of Ameri
    1100- 15th Street, NW
    Washington D.C., GA 20005
    06/22/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    1) Pharmacy Services Taxable, Inc.
    213 Third St. P.O. Box 63
    Macon, GA 31088
    01/02/2006
    Monetary $500.00
    2) Pharmacy Services Taxable, Inc.
    213 Third St. P.O. Box 63
    Macon, GA 31088
    01/02/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Waffle House
    5986 Financial Dr.
    Norcross, GA 30071-2949
    04/18/2006
    Monetary $2,000.00

    Titlemax Management
    15 Bull St.
    Savannah, GA 31401
    09/05/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

  14. Erick et al,

    Here are just a few. Will research Individual Corporate Officers, Opaque PACS and associated Law Firms at a later date. Sorry to bother you guys with underlying facts:

    Candidate Name: Balfour II, Donald Kenneth
    State Senate District 9
    Sought Reports Registration Information
    FilerID Office C2006000169
    Year 2006 State Senate
    District 9

    http://www.ethics.ga.gov/Reports/Campaign/Campaign_Name.aspx?NameID=465&FilerID=C2006000169

    Merck & Co. Inc.
    Dupont-Merck Plaza
    Wilmington, DE 19880-1988
    09/08/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Philip Morris USA, Inc.
    120 Park Ave.
    New York, NY 10017-1001
    09/13/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Walgreens
    200 Wilmont Rd.
    Deerfield, IL 60015
    11/13/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Pharmacy Services Taxable, Inc.
    213 Third St. P.O. Box 63
    Macon, GA 31088
    10/10/2006
    Monetary $2,000.00

    Abbott Laboratories PAC
    100 Abbott Park Rd.
    Abbott Park, IL 60064-6028
    07/27/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Genentech, Inc.
    P.O. Box 9030
    San Francisco, CA 94083-9030
    08/24/2006
    Monetary $250.00

    GlaxoSmithKline, Inc.
    P.O. Box 13681
    Philadelphia, PA 19101-3661
    07/08/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Bayer Corporation
    100 Bayer Rd.
    Pittsburgh, GA 15205
    06/08/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Bristol-Myers Squibb Company
    P.O. Box 840769
    Houston, GA 77284
    05/10/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    GlaxoSmithKline, Inc.
    P.O. Box 13681
    Philadelphia, GA 19101-3661
    06/13/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Novartis Corp.
    One Health Plaza
    East Hanover, GA 07936-0793
    05/05/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of Ameri
    1100- 15th Street, NW
    Washington D.C., GA 20005
    06/22/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    1) Pharmacy Services Taxable, Inc.
    213 Third St. P.O. Box 63
    Macon, GA 31088
    01/02/2006
    Monetary $500.00
    2) Pharmacy Services Taxable, Inc.
    213 Third St. P.O. Box 63
    Macon, GA 31088
    01/02/2006
    Monetary $500.00

    Waffle House
    5986 Financial Dr.
    Norcross, GA 30071-2949
    04/18/2006
    Monetary $2,000.00

    Titlemax Management
    15 Bull St.
    Savannah, GA 31401
    09/05/2006
    Monetary $1,000.00

    Posted 10:30a.m. 2/28/07 on Peach Pundit but Erick would not let it go through.

  15. loveofdaughter says:

    If the HPV vaccine is mandated, then so should the annual Flu vaccine. More individuals die from the Flu each and every year then from the 4 out of 100 HPV viruses. Not sure if anyone noticed the Merck Clinic Study details, but boys from 9 – 16 were studied as well. I haven’t seen any details concerning the results of those findings. Maybe the boys should be incolulated as well, as it takes a partner to pass the virus. I am more concerned over the long term effect of this vaccine, the vaccine’s antibodies have only been evaluated for a course of 36 months. Merck has stated additional, followup vaccinations are needed. From the sound of things, Gardasil will be Merck’s new “Cash Cow”, thanks to the ingorance of our politicans. A nice monetary replacement for the well marketed Vioxx.

  16. Nicki says:

    Folks, I blogged on this over at my humble little blog. My take on it is economic, though I also don’t favor it.

    Let me clear up a few inaccuracies above, however:

    If the HPV vaccine is mandated, then so should the annual Flu vaccine. More individuals die from the Flu each and every year then from the 4 out of 100 HPV viruses.

    Yes and no. More people do die. However, the correlation between HPV and cancer is much higher than between the flu and death, and furthermore the flu vaccine is an educated guess at what flu might be present in the population this year. So it never addresses all strains of the disease and the extent to which it addresses the strains varies from year to year.

    Third, what are the unintended consequences of this bill? You’ve got dumb-assed kids who think Oral Sex isn’t sex. Next you’re gonna have some 13 year old say “Well, we can have [unsafe] sex because you’ve been vaccinated against STDs”.

    I hate this argument. First, it’s wrong — vaccination history has practically nothing to do with the onset of sexual activity. Second, it’s the kind of mindset that means that when kids DO have sex, they’re not protected — against a disease that has a very strong correlation to a cancer that sickens and kills many each year.

    Re: “cash cow” arguments — the vaccine will belong to one company since they developed it for a few years. Then it’ll decrease in price and expand in suppliers. There is no conspiracy — just the usual R&D process.

  17. JasonW says:

    While I do tend to agree that we shouldn’t mandate the vaccines, I was deeply alarmed by the most recent statistic that 34 percent of girls age 11-24 are infected with HPV. Those are some pretty bad numbers and they only get worse in the studies. I also think that Bull shouldn’t be censored….just reprimanded.

  18. Calybos1 says:

    Joy… which won’t work when those vaccinated people move freely about among the non-vaccinated outside the private control of specific private entities that opted for it.

    Again, libertarian ideals just don’t work–and public health is just one of the most obvious ways they fail.

  19. Bill Simon says:

    Bull Moose has yet to demonstrate to me that he has any ability to analyze things in a non-emotional (nay, perhaps, non-HYSTERICAL) fashion.

    I can go back to his whiny posts regrading people like me bitching about ASH while other people (like GOPeach, et al.) were hammering Sue Everhart, and Bull Moose throws his marbles on the ground and walks off the thread by stating “I wont’ support EITHER of them! Booh-hoo-HOOO!!!! Wahhhh!”

  20. bird says:

    kspencer,

    I have a real hard time believing that anything the Washington Times writes is not the one-hundred-and-ten-percent accurate!

    Your research and facts may change some people’s opinions, but NOT MINE!!

    Please, take your blasphemies elsewhere.

  21. Bull Moose says:

    I want everyone to know that at 2:21 PM, I just checked out Peach Pundit and saw this post. I immediately sent the following email to Erick:

    Erick,

    I had no idea about your wife. I’m so very sorry. I know first hand how hard it is and how stressing it is when dealing with cancer issues. I literally didn’t catch anything in your message besides the, not so fast part.

    Please know that had I known about the situation with your wife and your own experiences with cancer, I would have never said such an insensitive comment such as I did.

    I will also post my comments under your post so that everyone else can see them as well.

    Again, I’m truly sorry, I did not mean to be insensitive to your personal situation.

    ————————————————————
    We all make mistakes sometimes and I made one in my comments in regards to Erick’s comments about the vaccinations against HPV and the promises of it as a vaccine for Cervical Cancer.

    Those of you who know me, and that is a small group, know that I’m a very sincere person and would never maliciously make a comment to hurt someone else.

    Having had cancer and having lost one of my best friends from the disease, as well as countless family members, I know all too well how hard and difficult the disease can be on people.

    Erick, I think if you and I put our heads together, we could probably find a unique and innovative way to give voice to people in Georgia to help raise awareness of special and unique issues that affect people and families with cancer.

    Again, I want Erick to know I’m sorry for the insensitivity of my comment and I want this board to know that as well.

  22. bowersville says:

    http://www.relayforlife.org

    If anyone is interested in rubbing elbows with cancer survivors, their family and friends as they raise awareness, funds, support, education, Relay for Life is a good place to start.

    Our local kick off for this years campaign was last week.

  23. Joy says:

    Calybos1, Vaccinated libertarians will be perfectly safe wandering around among all those who make the choice to skip vaccinations.

    I don’t care for the “ideal” argument. Arguing perfection is great over a couple of beers, but never actually gets anywhere. BUT… keep in mind that even in a less than ideal libertarian/free market society, vaccinations would be produced by more drug companies, and competition will have driven the prices down so everyone can afford vaccinations.

    Free markets, with individuals making choices for themselves, lead to better things. Some people will always choose poorly. Just like they do today. If the government forces an action on everyone because of those who won’t make the “right” decision, it just leaves idiots the opportunity to make another bad decision in it’s place.

  24. Mad Dog says:

    Bull Moose,

    Not a bad effort to make amends.

    Erick,

    Don’t be a jerk like Mad Dog.

    My thoughts in general, it’s too soon to mandate use of this ‘shot’ at $400 per each. On the personal side, which is where Erick and Bull have plenty of passion, I know several young women who have been raped by ‘adult’ men. (I did a lot of volunteer work in a mental health organization years ago.)

    Sadly, women still have to deal with rape and with the increased ‘base’ of human knowledge women also have to deal with rape and possible cancer.

    It’s almost impossible to assure a relatively young woman that “God” is not punishing her for “partying too hard” by giving her cancer.

    All of that is far more cryptic than my usual madness but I’ve seen more than one young woman deal with medical problems, including the possibility of cancer, as the result of something resembling “date rape” by a family friend.

    If the “shot” stops cancer, take over the company, nationalize it, give the shot away for free.

    In my irrational world, R&D expenses are not to be recovered by sales. No R&D, no sales. No risk, no return.

    In reality, price is whatever the market will bear. Theories that prices are cost driven are apologetic crap.

    And, to give a shout out to the Drjay, PP is seldom anything more than an internet chat room full of teenaged kids with $3000 laptop computers. So, expect the petty. On the other hand, the issues of healthcare and mandatory preventative measures are properly public debate. Nothing better seldom gets discussed in politics.

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