1. rugby_fan says:

    I agree with you except for this

    “to allowing our courts to rule that the due process granted to American citizens be afforded terrorists and enemy combatants, to refusing to forcefully interrogate captive terrorists (although when US soldiers were captured, they were not only brutally tortured, but beheaded and mutilated beyond recognition),”

    The Republicans must realise that if they do not (and they will not) set a clear agenda for success in Iraq, and the Democrats do, the Republicans will get no credit for any of their work.

  2. Adam Fogle says:

    Dear Terrorists,

    The following is our timetable for withdrawing our forces from Iraq:

    Saturday, April 1, 2007
    All U.S. military forces in Baghdad and the Al Anbar province will begin a hasty retreat, allowing the areas to fall into rapid decay after terrorists overrun all former-U.S. strongholds.

    Sunday April 2, 2007
    APRIL FOOLS! We were just kidding. Joke’s on you.  Silly terrorists!

    Monday April 3, 2007
    All that stuff we said on April 1, we’re really going to do it this time. Seriously. No joke.

    Thursday, April 6, 2007
    All other U.S. forces north and east of An Nasiriyah will either helicopter out to naval vessels, or run like hell to the Persian Gulf.

    Saturday, April 8, 2007
    I think Johnny really likes me. Sure, last time it was just because I was going to make him the majority leader, but now I think he does. He really really does!

    Sunday, April 9, 2007
    We’re going to stop and rest for a break. Smoke ’em if you got ’em!

    Tuesday, April 11, 2007
    All of our forces will now move/evacuate to the naval vessels in the Persian Gulf.

    Wednesday, April 12, 2007
    The naval ships will begin journeying back to the U.S. We should be, like, totally gone in the next few days. Hopefully we don’t forget anyone.

    We hope this time table helps. Let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.

    Best wishes,

    Nancy Pelosi

  3. rugby_fan says:

    Granted she is not the best foreign policy mind, but since when has Nancy Pelosi become Commander in Chief? Did I miss that?

  4. rugby_fan says:

    Ah! Of course! It logically follows that the woman in charge of a body that can not declare war (nor authorize deployment of troops) will be the one determining if we are at war or have troops in Iraq.

    I am certainly a hawk, no questions asked. I do not think for a second that America, the strongest nation in the world, will be run out of Iraq by a coterie of unorganized lowlifes. That being said, we must start planning how to end, and succeed with our work in Iraq. We are not doing so now.

  5. John Konop says:

    A Conservative Plan for Iraq

    Anyone who questions the lack of a realistic and comprehensive Iraq strategy is labeled a friend of fascism by the Republican leadership. House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) recently said, “I wonder if [Democrats] are more
    interested in protecting the terrorists than protecting the American people.

  6. The problem with the war in Iraq is clearly not that the Geneva Convention is still in place. That Republicans think this is the case (read Jeff’s part 2) goes a long way to explaining to even the average American why they have no idea what to do.

    We got ourselves into a bad situation that was unnecessary. It isn’t as if some terrorist has secret information that would end or even turn around the war in Iraq if only we could torture him, yet this is basically the plan Republicans ran their Congressional campaign on (just look at Nancy Johnson’s commercials in Connecticut) and the Americans strongly rejected this.

    Bush has two choices: Declare an end to the war and begin to draw down troops, or declare a major new direction and increase troops to achieve it. I don’t think he has the political will to do either, so I predict more of the same…

  7. Jeff Emanuel says:

    Chris, I agree with your last part; however rather than a “major new direction,” I think we need to decide on a direction, period, and then do what it takes to achieve it.

    And I agree with you on the lack of will. Sadly.

  8. ColinATL says:

    Good op-ed, Jeff. I think your point about coming up with a clear objective is spot on, and if we can’t come up with a clear objective, then we need to get out.

    But regarding your “gloves off” stance, I truly have to disagree. I am no advocate of coddling terrorists, but at the same time, it is due process and equal protection which have, in part, made this the great beacon of hope in the world. I will not give up cornerstones of our Constitution for some perceived lack of standards on the terrorists’ part.

    We’re the good guys, we don’t torture, period. There is no more morally clear stance than that, and to say otherwise is to truly let the terrorists win.

  9. IndyInjun says:

    Heaven Help Us ALL……

    This misadventure is costing $2 billion per week, all of it off budget and 100% borrowed from the Chinese and Russians.

    The GOP and Bush got us into opening this Pandora’s box. They have no clue on how to close it, nor do the Dems.

    We cannot stay…we cannot leave.

    Expecting the moron who got us into this to get us out is asking a mite much. Ultimately the DECIDERS will decide and THEY are in Beijing and Moscow, not in the oval office. They won’t tolerate an expansion of the war that is required to win it.

    Bush is the worst POTUS in US History, bar none. I hate having voted for him in 2000. He has nearfly singlehandedly destroyed the greatest country on earth and sold it into bondage to the Chinese and Russians.

    Since 9/11 he has done NOTHING TO SECURE OUR BORDERS AND PORTS. “Fighting them over there” was OK in the case of Afghanistan, but Iraq was controlled.

    This is the reality that blind GOP partisans cannot accept.

    We will soon be 4 years into this war. SURELY that is enough time for Bush to get a clue. Instead, he has none. Expecting a different result now is stupid.

  10. Jeff Emanuel says:

    Colin, I address that a bit here (or here if you don’t have FireFox). You’re right, we don’t – and shouldn’t.

    However, we also need to not stand pat, hands tied, taking low blow after low blow, simply because we’re “above” responding.

  11. LiveFreeOrDie says:

    Haha, we don’t torture?

    Oh wait, I guess you’re talking about the NEW military that doesn’t allow its soldiers to do their jobs. Right.

  12. joe says:

    IndyInjun :

    “Bush is the worst POTUS in US History, bar none. I hate having voted for him in 2000. He has nearfly singlehandedly destroyed the greatest country on earth and sold it into bondage to the Chinese and Russians.”

    I don’t feel destroyed or in bondage. While I am not happy with Bush, but your rhetoric is nothing but silly.

  13. Adam Fogle says:


    Nixon isn’t even in the bottom 10. You’ve ignore these dandies (in order, starting with the worst):

    Andrew Johnson
    James Buchanan
    Warren G. Harding
    Franklin Pierce
    William Henry Harrison (only because he served for all of about 10 minutes)
    Ulysses Grant
    John Tyler
    Calvin Coolidge
    Millard Fillmore
    Herbert Hoover

  14. rugby_fan says:

    I was merely pointing out that When it comes to worst POTUSessesessess of all time, GWB is not it.

    I would say remove Buchanan and put in Carter. And throw Ford in there because you must have been EGREGIOUSLY awful if Carter is seen as a welcome alternative.

  15. Adam Fogle says:


    I can possibly see Carter in the bottom 10, but certainly not Ford.

    The genius of the Ford legacy was in his selflessness and long term goals. He was a man OF the middle class who did what he thought was best for America, even though it cost him the election.

    But the long term vision of the Ford Administration was superb – even Ted Kennedy has recognized this numerous times by apologizing to Ford.

    Ultimately the Nixon pardon cost him the election, but looking back, most people will agree it was the right thing to do. That’s the theme of the Ford legacy.

  16. Adam Fogle says:

    Jimmy Carter.

    I wouldn’t cry if he died.


    That’s a really stupid comment to make – for two reasons:

    1. If you don’t respect Carter then at least show some respect for the office. He is a former President of the United States and regardless of your opinion of the man, respect the office by honoring his service.

    2. While Carter’s presidency was a flop, his post-office life has shown his true, genuine character. He is a good man with a kind heart who has offered the world a great deal of civic benevolence above-and-beyond the requisite status-quo for a former president. He has given a great deal of his time, money and support to numerous charities and organizations.

    So lay the heck off.

  17. rugby_fan says:

    Who was it, on here, a while back, was lambasting Pres. Carter? “Useless” was the description I believe.

  18. David says:

    Carter, hands down, is the worst. As far as his “legacy”, embracing third world dictators at every turn is truly noble.

  19. IndyInjun says:

    Let’s see now…

    Beginning with the firing of Paul O’Neill for objecting about the insane financial practices and Larry Lindsey for daring utter the truth about Iraq war costs, Bush’s administration has compiled a list as long as my arm of scapegoating and firing GOOD CONSERVATIVES who dared oppose their excesses.

    About two months ago, the Inspector General of the Interior Department blasted corruption at the very highest levels of his department. Just about every IG in the federal government and the audit/controls community has NEVER seen anything like the avalanche of corruption that has occurred. The Dems will have a field day with it.

    Iraq. Virtually none of the things the public was told by this admininstration have proven true. What is today? Day 545 of the “last throes of the insurgency”……Enough said.

    Trade deficits that have nearly tripled, now running at $800 billion a year. The lifesblood of the USA is being drained by trade agreements. Indeed the only way Bush ever saw Vietnam was to go over to give them a piece of the action.

    According to the financial statements of the USA, Bush has added more debt – according to GAAP accounting REQUIRED FOR ANY PUBLIC COMPANY – than all other presidents combined.

    When the financial and geopolitical walls fall in on this house of cards – one man will bear most of the responsibility – GEORGE W. BUSH.

    All I do is apply GOP standards and Contract with America.

    Most GOPers cannot bring themselves to a candid analysis.

    GWB is not NOW recognized as the worst POTUS ever, but that day is not very distant at all.

  20. Adam Fogle says:


    You are always so angry. Relax and cut some of the rhetoric.

    Who knows, your valid points may actually shine through without being buried in all the BS.

  21. BB says:

    Konop, you keep posting your “solution” for Iraq as if you know something more about the mideast than all the experts who wakeup everyday with this as their top priority.

    You write: “We should also stop participating in trade deals that promote child and slave labor by insisting on deals that include livable wages and basic labor rights.”

    Then you write in the very next paragraph: “we should re-establish normal relations with Cuba so we can beat China to Cuba’s off-shore oil.”

    One cannot be supportive of ending so-called child and slave labor while at the same time support normalizing trade relations with a communist country controlled by one of the worst offenders when it comes to unfair treatment of human beings….LMAO! What next Konop, decry America’s dependence on foreign oil then seek new sources of foreign supply…whoops you did that too in your “solution” rant. Stop it, you’re killing me (a little Kimmer lingo, when is he getting a new gig?).

  22. LiveFreeOrDie says:


    Surely by respect you don’t mean that I should forget about Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, the Panama Canal, South Africa, abandoning the Shah of Iran, Israel/Palestine, and Jimmy Carter’s ever-growing love affair with socialist and Marxist dictators Robert Mugabe, Daniel Ortega, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il, etc. etc. etc.

    Also, that’s a mighty double standard as the Great Jimmy Carter was first in line to criticize a sitting POTUS (not to mention aiding and abetting the enemy, but it ain’t treason when it’s the benevolent Jimmy Carter, is it?).

    But I wasn’t going to bring all that up, I was merely stating my opinion. Sorry that got you so worked up.

  23. IndyInjun says:


    I AM angry after being told by an elected GOP official that “you have no place to go” when I confronted him about GOP duplicity.

    The greatest nation on earth, bought with the blood of patriots, and I HAVE TO ACCEPT lies, treachery and deceit?

    Bringing the GOP back to its principles is nonnegotiable with me.

    If it takes anger and righteous indignation, so be it.

    We Indies hold the balance of power, not the GOP hacks in office in DC.

    I think we just proved it.

  24. Adam Fogle says:


    Criticizing POTUS is one thing, saying you wouldn’t care if one died is downright disrespectful. As I said, I think Carter’s presidency was one of the worst of the 20th Century. But he served as president and has done a great many noble things since leaving office, so as an American you should, at the very least, respect that.

    And could somebody please get IndyInjun a Valium?

  25. LiveFreeOrDie says:


    I guess we’re just not seeing eye to eye. I said the nicest thing possible I could think to say about the man.

    Also, while at the gym tonight I saw him on t.v. yet again criticizing the current POTUS. Maybe when he starts respecting other POTUSs he will gain respect as well. I also disagree about the “noble” things he’s done since leaving office, but that’s a subject I really don’t want to get into on only one glass of wine.


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