Why not raise Georgia’s minimum wage?

Think about it for a second here…the last time Georgia’s minimum wage was increased occurred back in 1997 when I was 14 years old.  Now I’m about to turn 23.

It’s been nearly ten years and gas prices have gone up, the price of groceries have gone up, the cost of living has gone up, but the minimum wage hasn’t gone up.

To quote a line from Chris Rock in the movie “Head of State”, that ain’t right.

In 1997, when the Georgia minimum wage was raised from $3.25 to $5.15, it had been 30 years (yeah, that’s right, 30 years!) since the Georgia minimum wage was last increased.

I don’t think the working families of Georgia need to wait another 30 years for another minimum wage increase.

Ten years is long enough.

Let’s give the people of Georgia that extra buck because they’ve earned it.


  1. LiveFreeOrDie says:

    Why not?

    Hmm… I’ll start with: it takes jobs away from lazy people, something you democrats always seem to be concerned about.

    It’s not hard to find a job that pays more than minimum wage unless you’re lazy or unskilled. Even people that start out at minimum wage receive raises if they’re good, productive employees. A minimum wage increase will cause employers to either find more productive employees, find a machine to replace that person thus resulting in the loss of a job in the market, or get the work done somewhere else, be it a foreign country or from an illegal worker.

  2. rightofcenter says:

    So who is effected by the state’s minimum wage? How many people? In Taylor’s press release on raising it, he insinuates that raising the state’s minimum wage will help Georgia’s working families. Is he so out of touch that he thinks Georgia’s working families are toiling around for less than the federal minimum? I thought Sonny made an excellent comeback – pointing to Kia and it’s high paying jobs.

  3. Warrior says:

    A MINIMUM wage isn’t a living wage. It isn’t intended to be. It’s pay for people to demonstrate that they will show up for work on time, dress appropriately, and follow instructions for about 3 months. Then, if they do, they get a promotion and a raise to a living wage. Raising this “trial period” pay will eliminate the opportunity for people to come in and prove their worth. It’s stupid and being promoted by people like Mark taylor who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and never worked a real job. He is pandering.

  4. hankreardan says:

    Jobs would go to Mississippi or Alabama instead of here.You would lose jobs here because people would be replaced by machines and in a free country you should not have a minimum wage. If we have minimum wage should we not have minimum work laws also 😉

  5. atlantaman says:

    If the minimum wage actually worked then why not make the minimum $100,000 a year and we would all be rich. Obviously it’s inflationary and everyones salaries and the resulting prices will go up proportionally.

    The free market showed itself to work very well here in Georgia a few weeks ago when they shut down the chicken processing plant and deported the illegal aliens. The illegal aliens were all making $7 – $10 an hour, more then the minimum wage and they didn’t even have working papers.

    I’m not even aware of someone who makes the minimum wage here in GA, but for arguments sake lets say “movie ticket takers” make the minimum wage. Well if you raise the pay of a “movie ticket takers” then the movie theatre will have to increase the price of a movie ticket and all the poor saps who just got a raise in the minimum wage will be no better off.

    The increase the minimum wage argument is a bunch of populist crap that essentially ends up being a shell game to use with stupid people. What people fail to realize is the standard of living is a two sided equation with wages only being one side. The only way to control both sides of the equation would be through regulating prices which has already been tried with Communism.

    How much you make is irrelevant, it’s what you can buy with what you make that is relevant.

  6. Donkey Kong says:

    The minimum wage is almost entirely irrelevant. How many actually get paid the minimum wage? Even fast food starts out employees $7.00. Just end it altogether and forget this failed social equity program.

  7. kingmaker says:

    Aren’t the wage scales in many collective bargaining agreements tied to the minimum wage? Thus, raising the minimum wage would give a union member an instant raise when the minimum wage is raised.

  8. Decaturguy says:

    I’d have to agree that very few workers in Georgia earn only $5.15 an hour and an increase in the minimum wage to lets say $7 an hour would effect very few Georgia workers. However, that being the case, why not go ahead and raise it and deprive the Democrats of this issue?

  9. Mad Dog says:

    Anyone know the minimum wage in Europe? The UK? No. I bet not.

    The minimum wage in Australia is $28,000 a year when adjusted for cost of living differences between the USA and Australia.

    I have a position paper on it.

  10. Why not raise the minimum wage?

    How about because republicans run this state & right wing talk radio says the munimum wage is baaaaad & Lib’rul.

    That’s as close to the truth as anything else.

  11. Donkey Kong says:

    HAHA candlerparklib, I think there’s a thing called ECONOMICS that says why we should not raise the mimimum wage. I could demonstrate this on the ECON 101 indifference curve graph if I could figure out how to do graphic design.

    Sorry if I’m dripping with sarcasm, but it’s pretty clear that a minimum wage hurts, not helps, a country’s economy. Thankfully, our minimum wage is low enough that it has little real negative effect, but raising the wage, even to $7.00 per hour, would still elicit harmful effects.

  12. Mad Dog says:

    Just a sample:

    “Ellen Mutari, Deborah Figart, and Marylyn Power (2001) recognize wages as having three functions: as a living, as a price, and as a social practice. By setting government mandatory minimum wages at or near the average wage, wages set a price. As the price level increases, in wages, tax receipts will increase. As a social practice, wage increases will reduce demand for government social services. As a living, wage increases will raise minimum standards of living allowing a greater involvement in life, not work. Eugene Erickson (1988) reviews wealth distribution in the United States from data collected in the 1960’s and the 1980’s. Generally, Erickson accepts that one half of one percent of the population controls twenty seven percent of the wealth. Changes in minimum wages as outlined may also cost this very tiny percent of the population an unknown amount of accumulated wealth. As shown in Table A, Richard Clare and Anne Paternoster (2003) found the United States was seventh in minimum wage standards when compared to EU member states. In Eurodollars and purchasing power, US workers receive the equivalent of 826 Euros compared to Luxemburg workers who receive 1338 Euro a month. Only one and a half percent of the US population receives the mandatory minimum wages. This percent would also be the largest recipient of current government social programs and tax dollars.”

    Just thought I’d point out how wrong Dummy Kong is about economics.

  13. skbarton13 says:

    Andre said: Let’s give the people of Georgia that extra buck because they’ve earned it.


    I don’t employ anybody at the minimum wage Andre. If you do and want to pay them more, go right ahead. It’s your money.

  14. Donkey Kong says:

    Mad Dog, I don’t doubt that those who are currently receiving minimum wage (your 1.5 percent of the US population…the largest recipient of current government social programs and tax dollars) would be better off under a minimum wage and would be taking in less government assistance (or perhaps none at all). However, the increase in minimum wage does affect the marginal cost of a company hiring a new employee, making the company less likely to hire that additional employee. This would in turn affect the unemployment rate. Those additional unemployed workers would then, guess what, be added to the government payroll via unemployment income and other government welfare programs.

    Now, were you using all three functions of wages as an argument for a higher min. wage? Because wage as:
    1) price–this definition fails to account for the now unemployed thanks to the increased minimum wage. The price (wage) may be higher, but fewer workers are taking that wage in. So, in effect, the tax base has actually shrunk.
    2) social practice–demand for government services among those benefited by the increased wage will decrease but demand from those who cannot get a job due to the wage regulation will increase, at least negating the decreased demand from the beneficiaries of the higher wage, if not increasing demand outright
    3) living–doesn’t really factor into the equation unless you want to measure units of utility, which in aggregate has probably shrunk because the marginal cost of decreasing wage from $5.15 to $0 for those who cannot get a job is much greater than from $5.15 to $7.0 based on the principle of diminishing marginal utility, just observing from the other end of the graph than typically noticed (aka, the cost to go from $1.0 to $0 per hour is much more costly to the worker than it is to go from $6.0 to $7.0 per hour…scarcity, et al)

  15. Jason Pye says:

    “If I can afford to pay you $5 an hour that’s what you’re gonna get. If they raise the minimum wage to $7, your choice is not between $5 and $7. Your choice is between $5 and being unemployed.” – Michael Badnarik

  16. Donkey Kong says:

    Thank you Jason for explaining my point in less than 50 words. I just tried to use all the big economic buzz words because Mad Dog did and I wanted him to think I’m cool.

  17. So is sounds like the arguement is that a raise in the minimum wage will either put people out of work (although noone actually is making the minimum wage now.) Or it will raise the prices of everything. Or it will make GA lose these jobs (that noone is actually working or at least not for long) to Mississippi or Alabama.

    I find a couple of things interesting about this arguement. First it seems that I recently read somewhere that states that have higher minimum wages than the federal minimum actually have better economic growth than states with lower minimum wages.

    But really what I love about the debate is that it just reinforces my beliefs about ‘conservatives’ & Right wingers. My theory is that 90% of these types are sheeple – sheep people who are easily led. They hear the talking points & then regurgitate the talking points. . . . I love it! Hannity (for example) says something one afternoon & not too soon thereafter a ‘conservative’ parrots the exact same thing back to me. The talk radio people get rich in the process & the Republicans get elected, but I’ve never understood whats in it for the sheeple

    Minimum wage schminimum wage . . . . I really can’t get too worked up about it. Unless someone tries to feed me a load of crap about how mcdonalds is gonna go broke if they have to pay their wage slaves a couple of extra quarters.

  18. CHelf says:

    I’m a little confused when a person first says no one earns minimum wage pay any more but then they say if we did this masses of jobs would drift away. That mathematical formula does not make sense. Fuzzy math?

    If anyone has noticed lately jobs are leaving this state due to outsourcing. I think many plants and mills have left due to other factors besides minimum wage. The Dems could have a better argument that more jobs have left this state and this country under GOP control than Dem policies.

    Let’s just try to keep to the facts on this debate rather than conjecture and assumption.

  19. Jeff says:

    When the people that have minimum wage paying jobs can not afford to purchase the products they manufacture, distribute, stock, sell, etc…we have a problem. All of you right wing nut jobs seem to forget the most basic and essential economic unit. The individual. Who makes money for the corporations that contribute to your GOP…here the shocker…not the CEO’s or CFO’s or Regional Operation Directors and all the rest of the execs that pay GOP candidates to lie and decieve Americans through 527 ads, but it is the commoner. You know the Democrats of the company, the wage earners that manufacture a good, ship it, stock it, sell it, and ring it up. These are the people that make our country possible and the GOP has convinced most of Georgia that these people do not deserve better. People, we need a government that works for the people…not it’s officials. Sonny Perdue is in the Capitol enjoying an extra $100k he saved by signing a tax bill for himself, while most Georgians will never see that much money in their lives. The GOP always talks about unity, but they only divide…for the GOP it is always about us and them (whether we talk about race, socio-economic status, party affiliation, education disparity, and so on). Where is the unity that was so important following 9/11. I guess that strategy isn’t earning enough votes nowadays.

  20. jsm says:

    How about some facts about the 1.5% of our population who earn minimum wage?

    From the U.S. Dept. of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics (www.bls.gov):
    – Sixty-three percent of minimum wage workers receive raises within one year of employment.
    – Only 15 percent still earn the minimum wage after three years.
    – Only 5.3 percent of minimum wage earners are from households below the official poverty line.
    – Forty percent of minimum wage earners live in households with incomes $60,000 and higher.
    – Over 82 percent of minimum wage earners do not have dependents.

    The free market should determine wages. To put it simply, a government mandated minimum wage results in fewer entry level jobs, higher product costs, and inflation. This essentially helps no one.

  21. Chris says:

    Oh here’s one I can get into. My emotional response to the prospect of waging the mimimum wage is “Absolutely!” That’s based on seeing people struggle to get by everyday, living barely from paycheck to paycheck, while the CEOs of their corporations would rather increase their own income by $400 / hour than give their 400 employees a $1.00 /hour raise.

    But when facts come into view, hardly anybody is working for minimum wage, so raising it won’t help the struggling lower half of the middle class one whit.

  22. Chris says:

    Jeff: When the people that have minimum wage paying jobs can not afford to purchase the products they manufacture, distribute, stock, sell, etc…we have a problem.

    That’s why we gave China most favored nation trading status. So they could make the goods our employees can afford to buy.

  23. Donkey Kong says:


    Thanks for not addressing any of my points and instead complaining about the rich CEO’s.

    If “Dummy Kong” is so dumb about economics, tell me where in my economic analysis I went wrong. Otherwise, I will assume you are just one of those liberal sheep that spout off liberal talking points without the capacity to back them up. And, by the way, I don’t listen to talk radio. I don’t watch TV either except for old episodes of West Wing.

    Good statistics. I have heard those quoted before, but this is the first time I’ve seen them in front of me.

    Thanks…I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for the libertarians. When people ask me, I say I’m an 19th century liberal, Goldwater conservative, and 20th century libertarian with conviction. Somewhere in there exists a common ground, and I’m standing in the middle of it.

  24. LiveFreeOrDie says:


    What do you mean by, “First it seems that I recently read somewhere… blah blah blah…

  25. Mad Dog says:

    Donkey Kong,

    If in fact your assumptions are right about marginal employment (“However, the increase in minimum wage does affect the marginal cost of a company hiring a new employee, making the company less likely to hire that additional employee.”), Australia should have rampant unemployment with a minimum wage of over $12 AUD ($14 US when adjusted for comparable living conditions).

    Australia is begging for workers.

    Also, Luxembourg, with the highest minimum wage in the EU, has the highest per capita income in the EU or the world.

    It’s too bad the real world doesn’t live and die by your economic logic.

    Does that meant your criteria for disproving your theories that a government set minimum wage creates economic havoc? Or, would you prefer I cite some arcane academic theory?

  26. Mad Dog says:

    Donkey Kong,

    If in fact your assumptions are right about marginal employment (“However, the increase in minimum wage does affect the marginal cost of a company hiring a new employee, making the company less likely to hire that additional employee.”), Australia should have rampant unemployment with a minimum wage of over $12 AUD ($14 US when adjusted for comparable living conditions).

    Australia is begging for workers.

    Also, Luxembourg, with the highest minimum wage in the EU, has the highest per capita income in the EU or the world.

    It’s too bad the real world doesn’t live and die by your economic logic.

    Does that meet your criteria for disproving your theories that a government set minimum wage creates economic havoc? Or, would you prefer I cite some arcane academic theory?

  27. Bill Simon says:

    Okay, Mad Dog…let’s do it your way…

    Let’s force all employers in Georgia to pay a minimum of $6.15 per hour.

    I hope YOU like the sudden increase in prices at the Quickie Marts, the grocery stores, and all the price increases on everything you buy.

    Becuase, in case you and the other Libbies didn’t know, a lot of companies are struggling right now with getting the razor-thin margins they operate their business on. They have to maintain those operating margins in order to stay in business.

    You increase the cost of a component that currently goes into the production of a good OR service (whether it is a physical part or a man-hour of labor), the company will have to increase the offering price to their market in order to maintain their same margins.

    Have you or Chris, by ANY chance, ever done real work for a living, OR, better yet, been involved in the building of a business to know what actuallt is required to operate a business?

    Or, are you all “poly-sci” majors with ZERO knowledge of how the real world operates?

  28. Mad Dog says:


    Take a pill, Man. You’re about to blow!

    I’m most likely older than you, so go ahead and call me a dead beat student. I like it! It’s a lot better than having coed call me a dirty old creep.

    And, I wouldn’t bother with a dollar an hour. I’d raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour.

    That would put the ‘world’s greatest economy’ (and country) in the position of being the world’s best paying economy. One should go with the other, eh?

    I wouldn’t mind seeing marginally efficient economic activity destroyed.

    In plain language, if it doesn’t produce a return, don’t do it.

  29. Jeff says:

    Just read Nickel and Dimed. You right wing nut jobs have coined that compassionate conservative position, but since Bush has been in office where has the compassionate part been? A selling point I suppose. Trying to live off of $7/hr is very tough, not alone only earning $5.15. Why cut hours, fire employees or raise prices? Corporate America is being taxed at it’s lowest rate in 50 years, on top of that their profits are higher than ever. They can afford it.

  30. Mad Dog says:


    “If I can afford to pay you $5 an hour that’s what you’re gonna get. If they raise the minimum wage to $7, your choice is not between $5 and $7. Your choice is between $5 and being unemployed.

  31. Jeff says:

    Oh and Bill Simon, we Political Science scholars or students know quite a bit. I have graduated, and made quite a living. And if you are really smart you would know the corporate answer to the minimum wage question…when prices rises (which they wont) and employees get fired (which they wont) the Republican solution will follow…open up a Wal Mart. Just wipe out all of those stupid little small businesses that make marginal profits. America is better off that way…right? The economic and political impact of raising the minimum wage is all going to be positive, unless the GOP sabatoges it.

  32. Mad Dog says:


    Not to quote Marx or Engels, the way I remember it, “We can’t afford a king” was the quote.

    We still can’t afford to make kings of the greedy and the willing.

  33. Bill Simon says:


    Wal-Mart operates on razor-thin margins as well and makes-up for the margin in volume.

    YOU sound like that idiot named Hillary Clinton back in 1993 when BC wanted to raise the minimum wage and the pizza storeowner asked her if she was aware of the effect on doing that for his business.

    Remember what that dingbat said? “Just raise the price of your pizza to cover it.”

    You know what? I want a minimum sales price of everything I sell, Jeff. Can I get that guaranteed to me? You know, as long as you and Mad Dog are going to guarantee the minimum price someone will get for their labor services, whether skilled or unskilled.

  34. Jason Pye says:

    Mad Dog,

    Employers work within a budget and they have labor costs set each day. If there is a minimum wage increase, they’ll have to let go of people or cut hours. It’s basic economics.

    Uhhh, it doesn’t imply coercion. Grab some rocks and start hunting deer in the wild.

    Plus…if you are 30 years old and making minimum wage, you may want to start thinking about the choices you made to put you in that situation.

  35. Mad Dog says:


    Very well reasoned theory, but a theory. The real world shoots you down. Here’s the deal.

    “Employers work within a budget and they have labor costs set each day.”

    What happens to that cast-in-stone budget when gasoline prices rise? OPS!

    What happens to that cast-in-stone budget when gasoline prices double? OPS!

    Most of the anonymous businessmen (that’s how Cagle describes the co-members of the Board of Directors, GBTB, who donate to his campaign) don’t have a daily operating budget. Most of them can’t do a basic tax return. (Neither can Cagle. He doesn’t even know what year it is on his disclosures.)

    Businesses at best make forward looking statements, and those are nothing but WAGs.

    Then, they make back statements as adjustments. (Back statements, like filing the 2005 earnings statements and tax statements in 2006).

    That you can’t see coersion or racism, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    It’s a coercion when an employer threatens to fire an employee who asks for a raise. That’s in your quote. Clearly. Work for what I say or don’t work.

    When viewing a situation only from one possible perspective, bias becomes embedded.

    If labor costs are fixed, the way many costs are fixed, (beyond changing by the employer) employers can adjust in more than one way.

    Not everyone whines and cries. Some people adapt and move on.

  36. Donkey Kong says:

    Mad Dog,

    Ever heard the phrase “ceteris paribus?” All things constant, an increase in minimum wage does increase the marginal cost per employee, by definition. Now, have you ever considered that perhaps other factors come into play?

    “Australia is begging for workers.”
    – Actually, their unemployment rate is higher than ours–4.6% in the US, 4.8% in Australia. Begging for workers? Hardly. Certainly, their unemployment rate is impressive, but still ours is lower.

    Another important fact to consider is real wage. The cost of living is much higher in Australia, thanks in large part to taxes. I just got off the phone with a good friend of mine who lived in Australia for a while (and is now engaged to an Aussie) who said that her shampoo cost on average $9 per bottle. That’s simply one example, and frankly I don’t have the time right now to do all the research, but I’d like to see their minimum wage adjusted for cost of living, not to mention their entire economy.

    And, thanks again for exaggerating what I said. A minimum wage will not cause “rampant unemployment” but will increase unemployment to a noticeable extent.

  37. Ben Marshall says:

    Mad Dog,

    When comparing the job markets in australia and Luxembourg to the United States, you’re not taking into account all factors. I mean sure, Australia might be able to have a $12 minimum wage, but they have a population of only 20 million people, with almost a third of that below the working age or of retirement age. I’m sure Australia is able to have a high minimum wage and be begging for workers when they are a post-industrial nation with a large service sector driven economy, a large technological industry, and only 12 million people between the ages of 15 and 65 to work.

    And Luxembourg. Luxembourg has a population of 475,000 because it is a tiny country. They have a hugh service based industry, along with a large techology and factory based industry. They have so much work and so little population, that citizens of border countries cross over to work. That’s great for them, they can have as a high a minimun wage as they want when 1/3 of their workforce are citizens of other nations because they lack the people to fill all of the jobs.

    These are completely different scenarios than the U.S., where we have 300 million people, and an ever increasing immigrant population who are working (above the minimum wage too), and a large amount of industrial jobs leaving the country.

  38. Mad Dog says:


    You’re mistaken. I never quoted you as saying rampant unemployment. I said if your theory were true, then Australia would have rampant unemployment with minimum wage of $12 AU per hour.

    The cost of living on a $12 an hour wage in Australia is equal to living on a $14 an hour wage in the USA.

    My wife pays more than $9 per bottle for her shampoo and I’ve paid that for styling gel.

    The cost of living is actually lower in Australia. Just say national health care. And, don’t forget to read the article in Forbes. Australia is creating new millionaires faster than the US.

    Enjoy your research.

  39. pulease says:

    This is clearly an issue that the Republican noise machine has you all well educated on how to counter. Here’s what is funny…you Republicans/Conservatives are contradicting yourselves (as is often the case):

    1. Talking Point Number 1: Nobody makes the minimum wage:
    FACT: Much to your chagrin, there are a LOT of people making the minimum wage. So political or not, it’s a great issue to campaign on for Democrats. Republicans can’t because it’s “Socialism

  40. Mad Dog says:

    But, like Bush said about Poland, (Don’t forget Poland).

    Don’t forget Luxembourg with the highest per capita income in the world and the highest minimum wage in the EU.

  41. Donkey Kong says:

    What happens when gas prices rise? Employers/consumers make adjustments. Ask Ford–their SUV and Truck sales are slumping and they announced their largest loss in something like 14 years.

    What happens when wage rates rise? Employers make adjustments and choose to hire fewer employees.

    Either way, employers make adjustments pertaining to the specific strain.

    I would hardly call tax returns basic, especially when you consider the different types of exceptions, deductions, et al and their applications towards a partnership vs. an LLP vs. proprietorship vs. C-corp vs. S-corp and all the rules that differ for each. If you are simply cut a check each month/week/bimonth, maybe have a mortgage, simple retirement plan, sure your taxes are relatively simple, especially with tax prep software. However, if you are a business owner, your taxes are far more complex. Why not hire someone that is an expert and let them do it? The benefit far outways the cost when they save you money on your return and the hundreds of hours it would take you to do it yourself.

    Anyway, I have work to do and this will be the end of my participation on this thread, for the time being. It’s been real. It’s been fun. It’s been real fun.

  42. Mad Dog says:


    Sorry you’re gone, but you’ve twisted what I said.

    I said most businessmen can’t do a BASIC TAX RETURN. Not that tax returns are simple.

    I’ve never paid anyone to do one of my returns and I’ve done quite a few. I usually do run more than one scenario on more than one form. The total time for annual return is less than two hours for me.

    I did cost accounting and analysis for a trucking company WAAAAAAYYYYY back before personal computers. Not only do I hate pencils, I hate erasers. But, I don’t want to overstate that job. I was only one member of a large staff and I did a variety of duties, including purchasing. (And, making the coffee).

    For me, the numbers end of business was always pretty simple. Maybe I do over judge it as a measure of ‘businessmen.’

    However, I find most small business owners know very little about their personal taxes or the tax system.,

    And, they oddly enough are willing to pay a huge amount of money, far more than minimum wage, to have someone do the math for them.

  43. defnotrep says:

    Mad Dog,

    I think you rock! You at least have the fortitude to stand up and have an original opinion. You definitely aren’t a sheeple.

  44. Chris says:

    Look, either the economy is doing great or it ain’t. When someone suggests raising the minimum wage, sub-poverty rates by all measurable standards, suddenly whiners come out of the woodwork implying that the economy sucks so much that companies would go out of business if they were forced to pay their lowest wage workers any more.

    If the economy is doing so great, then why isn’t everyone feeling it? I mean, EVERYONE?

  45. Mad Dog says:

    I think the best post in this thread belongs to … Ben Marshall // Oct 26, 2006 at 2:32 pm

    Ben rightly points out several important differences between the USA, AUS, and Luxembourg.

    If I were trying to be funny, I’d say that Australia is a continent. The USA thinks it is a continent (America). And, Luxembourg will never be mistaken for a continent.

    To try and be serious, and drag Bill into this at the same time, some businesses,as Bill points out, can’t set price points. Two amazing exceptions would be Fourbucks Coffee and every store with a gas pump.

    Now to make some sense of how Bill and Ben might fit together.

    Judging a single country and it’s economic conditions against another country is a whole lot like judging one industry against another.

    Starbucks coffee isn’t any better than the stuff down at the convenient store – gas station. But, they don’t sell gasoline, cigarettes, and beer. They have to sell at a higher price point or close the doors. Don’t think that means their costs are higher. It’s still just beans and water.

    Starbucks sets and gets a price point for their product. Or, else.

    Gasoline is more or less nothing but hydrocarbon. But, with a gas station – convenience store selling multiple products and product lines, gas price isn’t the critical factor.

    And, I can make coffee at home. I can’t make gasoline (unleaded gasoline) at home. (BIll, market that Mr. Unleaded hydrocarbon brewer.) I pay far more per gallon for coffee than I do for gasoline. And, stealing from the UNfair Tax book, both purchases are voluntary!

    Fourbucks Coffee does set a price point and holds that price.

    Gasoline never has a price point. The price has some relationship with a pass through mechanism. Consumers will pay whatever price for gas. And, reduced gasoline volume means nothing to the (chain) convenience store if Price times Quanitity still yields enough to refill the ground storage tanks.

    So back to Ben. He’s right in that we can’t compare three different countries without some adjustments.
    But, can Ben or Bill quote the debt of any of the three nations. That is one of the things critical to a discussion of minimum wage.

    From my paper:

    “The Federal debt as tracked by the Bureau of the Public Debt (“Table 1.

  46. LiveFreeOrDie says:

    I think we’re getting a bit off topic here. The bottom line is this:

    Poor people are lazy.

    Let’s just allow natural selection to do its job, ok?

  47. Bill Simon says:

    Donkey Kong

    By any chance, did you take macro economic classes at Georgia State University? (this is not the beginning of a line of insults, a serious question)

  48. Mad Dog says:


    “Let’s just allow natural selection to do its job, ok?”

    So you don’t believe in the Bible, eh?

    Now we’re off topic.

  49. sbrons1 says:

    Wow, this blog is filled with people dropping ideological bombs as if they were facts. The overwhelming majority of studies have shown that increases in the minimum wage increases the purchasing power of the working poor (obviously) and has no negative impact on unemployment or job growth. For actual emprical studies on the topic: (Baiman et al, 2003; Bernstein & Schmidt, 1998; Card & Krueger, 2000).

    Further, studies of states with minimum wages greater than the federal have shown positive employment among employers in service and retail when compared to the state as a whole since the laws were enacted.

    And, just for kicks, here is a quote from former Vice Federal Reserve Chair and Princeton Ecomist Alan Blinder’s Econ 101 Textbook: “Elementary economic reasoning…suggests that setting a minimum wage…above the free-market wage…must cause unemployment….Indeed, earlier editions of this book, for example, confidently told students that a higher minimum wage must lead to higher unemployment. But some surprising economic research published in the 1990s cast serious doubt on this conventional wisdom.”

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  51. Tekneek says:

    It’s inflationary? How come the $5.15 in 1997 dropped in value to $4.04 in 2007 despite no change in the minimum wage?

    It should at least keep up with inflation on an annual basis. To pretend that $5.15 in 1997 money is worth the same in 2007 is pure nonsense.

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