Corporations pay income taxes.

Kirk

And when the profits stay in the corporation it makes the value of the corporation go up and increases the value of the stock the individual owns.

If the former, the answer to your second question is less than the doubling of sales taxes would seem to imply. All else being equal, lower taxes in neighboring and competing tourist states would draw a measurable proportion of non-Georgians who currently come here. Add in the fact – as I’ve mentioned before – that sales taxes provide about 40% of what income taxes provide to the state, and the end result is that the state gets a significant cut in revenue – significant being double-digit, and potentially 25%. (assuming a 5% decline in tourist visitors due to the increased cost effect.)

If the latter, well, if it’s nationwide this is the least of the worries. I’ve given multiple reasons why FairTax is bad, to include the one earlier in this thread, and have seen no reason to change my mind. Let me make it plain: If FairTax is passed, at the earliest opportunity I will move all my investments based on the assumption that we will see well over 20% inflation within a year. Since I would also expect a simultaneous significant devaluation of the dollar on the global market, those investments would be non-US based.

But again, we’re getting into pass-through accounting. There are significant problems with that, and they begin with the fact that a person (in the eyes of the law this includes corporations, thanks to Santa Clara v Southern Pacific, among other decisions) is accountable and responsible. Arguing otherwise has nasty unintended consequences, at the forefront is the argument that since (a) pays the salary of (b), (a) can control what (b) purchases. This is the “company store” argument, and still resonates when government employee salaries get discussed.

No, each stop in the money flow is a discrete step, and while it may impact steps downstream it cannot be blithely said that the subsequent steps are ‘really’ the ones responsible for or accountable for or the ultimate providers of the incident.

Of course the problem with this argument is that it’s hard, and it’s oh so easy to say that “of course” all the expenses to include taxes are borne by the individuals. Like all simple explanations and solutions regarding human behaviors, it’s mistaken. But that won’t stop people from making their decisions based on it – because we like the easy way far too often regardless of right or wrong.

Kirk

How much taxes do non-Georgians pay to the state?

How much more will non-Georgians pay in sales tax after this bill is passed?

ergo, you raise taxes on a corporation and it either comes out of the pockets of the customer via higher prices or out of the pockets of owners in the form of lower profits.

1) When taxes are raised on businesses, they don’t usually pass the entirety off to the customer. Over and over again, they eat part of their profits. There are exceptions, but they’re EXCEPTIONS.

2) The “pass along” argument falls when examined throughout the chain of money flow. An extended version of winds up saying that in reality government pays itself, and so taxes are a waste of time.

The core of this for the corporate income tax is the fact that income taxes are paid on profits, not on gross income. And profits go two places: back into the company, and to the owners/shareholders. Yes, the money originally comes from the customer – but it’s not the customer’s money that’s taxed. It’s the corporate profits – the money of the corporation and it’s owners.

The only entity that is taxed in this country is individuals. Corporations just pass the buck on to the consumer.

That is exactly why I support a RST at the point of purchase. As long as tax outrage occurs one a year in April there will never be meaningful spending reform.

Yes, I do.

Kirk

You say that “so long as you can keep personal initiative supressed and your huddled masses returning to their mailboxes and the welfare office each month, you are in good shape.”

However, every Fair Tax proposal I’ve ever seen has a large rebate for what you call the “underclass,” whereby they would receive a rebate check from the government every month in order to compensate for the increased taxes (the 23% national sales tax) that they would pay under this system.

Sounds like to me, then, that the Fair Tax would actually increase the very poor’s reliance on government handouts by getting them accustomed to receiving thier “Fair Tax” check in the mail every month. So how exactly, UGA, would the Fair Tax reduce the poor’s reliance on the government for help?

It is not myself or the very poor who I’m concerned about under the Fair Tax. I’d come out pretty good under it. It is the working middle class who I’m somewhat concerned about. People who are not rich, but who make more than what is considered “poverty level” and don’t get the benefit of the rebate check.

There is no question that they would pay more under the Fair Tax.

According to HR25, the poor pay as much as they presently pay, corporations pay zero, and the rich pay less. This means either the middle pays more or the government collects less. According to HR25 the government gets the same – it’s content neutral.

That means the middle class pays more in taxes under FairTax.

The frequent claim – John Douglas implied it again – is that there are enough people NOT presently paying taxes who would actually make up the difference. A simple review of numbers demonstrates this to be false.

I will not pay more tax so Paris Hilton or Sonny Perdue or John Kerry can pay less. I will not pay more tax so Alltel and Bell South don’t have to pay any.

A state or national fair tax would destroy the power base which allows you to pay for the votes you get. But so long as you can keep personal initiative supressed and your huddled masses returning to their mailboxes and the welfare office each month, you are in good shape.

Even if the fair tax made economic sense, I think that it would be very unpopular with most voters because consumers would have to pay that tax on every single item they purchased rather than not really noticing it being taken out of their paycheck once every two week or every month.

However, your studies have also shown that Bill Clinton only visited the Pentagon once as President, so keep preaching the gospel.

No one wants to raise your total taxes. I am sick and tired of those working honestly and paying their way having to pay the way of those here dishonestly and not paying their way. The GA Fair Tax would simply change the way taxes are collected and force everyone into the tax equation.

And if you think there are only a “few illegals” here, think again.

Some ideas:
1. “HOPE” scholarship for graduate schools. Every year you teach in a Georgia public school = one year of tuition (or some sort of grant) for higher education. Graduate from college, and then teach in a Georgia public school for X years before you get your post graduate degree which will also take X years.

2. State subsidized malpractice insurance for rural doctors. The state of Georgia will subsidize part or all of rural doctors’ malpractice costs so long as they aren’t found at fault by a state board of malpractice. Rural people tell me that they can’t get a decent neurosurgeon (for example) in their areas, and yet the doctors don’t want to go there and would rather blame trial lawyers and insurance companies. Let’s bypass the trial lawyer/insurance company blame game that has just tied us up in knots and actually do something.

3. MARTA reorganization. MARTA reorg was literally the only thing I was looking forward to when Republicans finally took over. Why hasn’t it happened? Let’s split up the system into separate categories for rail and bus. Have the state take over all of the rail and integrate it into a larger system (including proposed commuter rail to Macon, Athens, etc) and let the counties and cities fund their own local light rail and bus systems with local money. Right now in DeKalb I pay a lot of tax money for buses that are primarilly used locally but also for a rail system that riders in many counties use. If all of that DeKalb money could just go towards a local transit system it would be accountable, have more options and just be all around better.

4. Income tax cut for everyone + sales tax increase + Georgian citizen sales tax rebate. Basically, raise the sales tax so that illegal immigrants (who can’t prove Georgia/US residency) and out of state travellers pay more – but give some sort of rebate to Georgia citizens (maybe a Georgia plus card like a Kroger plus card) so that we don’t pay any more than we used to. Sales taxes for Georgia citizens will stay the same, but illegals and visitors will pay more, and use the increased funds to lower income taxes for everyone who files a tax return legally here. The fair taxers want to raise my total taxes just so they can catch a few illegals in the net. That’s not fair, but we should find a way to collect taxes from illegals without penalyzing those that are here legally.

5. Publicly funded elections for incumbents. Here’s a twist. Incumbents are forbidden from raising money – they will be publicly funded. But only at the level their opponent raises. So if Glenn Richardson’s opponent raises $5,000, they will both duke it out for $5K. Obviously this idea needs some work but it is interesting to think about.

6. Eliminate all contribution limits, but require full and immediate disclosure. I know this is kind of the exact opposite of #5, but so what! Contribution limits are easy to skirt and therefore transparency is harder to enforce. We should eliminate the concept of a “disclosure period” and just have a permanent 48 hour system on disclosures. The more sunlight the better.