New Perdue ad going up.

Here’s a link for your viewing pleasure.

Topic: cracking down on illegal immigration.

[UPDATE by Erick]: I’m sure the Perdue folks won’t mind I uploaded their ad to Google Video for your viewing pleasure. It is here:

62 comments

  1. RiverRat says:

    How exactly did he “extend a hand”?? WTF does that mean? Perdue has paid lip service to the Hispanic community, nothing else. What is the point behind having a Latino Commission if you don’t even consult them when the biggest bill affecting the Latino community comes to your desk? When people on your commission resign because they see it for the sham publicity stunt it is, you aren’t “extending a hand”. You are using people, and I suspect it will hurt the GOP (and Perdue) in the long run.

    It may help energize the radical GOP base this year, but I think the Latino community has become more organized and does not see the GOP as an ally – and the voting Latino community is growing. Long term, this anti-immigrant stuff will hurt the GOP. The Latino community is smart enough to see through the two-faced approach favored by Sonny and the rest of the GOP.

  2. Demonbeck says:

    “Perdue has paid lip service to the Hispanic community, nothing else.”

    Tell me what the mighty infallible Democratic Party has done for the Hispanic community.

    “the Latino community has become more organized and does not see the GOP as an ally – and the voting Latino community is growing. Long term, this anti-immigrant stuff will hurt the GOP.”

    That may happen, but it won’t be because of an anti-immigrant stance, it would be because of anti-illegal immigrant stance. Any anti-GOP sentiments from the Latino community would not be borne from legal immigration, they would be the product of folks who have friends and family members who are here illegally.

    Now the Democratic party may be willing to kowtow to criminals and their friends for a few votes. I certainly hope the Republican party never does.

    I am willing to argue, though, that the Latino community – based upon the ethics instilled by their culture (strong family, strong Catholic church, unmatched work ethic) – will find a place in a Republican party that espouses the virtues of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps rather than keeping people permanently on the government dole.

  3. blazer says:

    River Rat…

    I nor any Republican I know is “anti-immigrant.” I think immigration is a good thing. Historically immigrants have worked the hardest in jobs that most Americans would rather not work in at all. That being said; what I and most other Republicans are vehemently against is ILLEGAL immigration. For the sake of our national security, I don’t think it is very safe for our nation to have 12+ million people in out country undocumented.

    Now I have a question for you. Was it a bad thing to take illegal immigrants (aka someone who is blatantly breaking US law & GA law) off of Medicaid/Welfare services?

  4. Jeff Emanuel says:

    RiverRat, the spin that enforcement of America’s border and immigration laws is just plain “anti-immigrant” is old, tired, oft-repeated spin — and not very good spin, at that. Governor Perdue and the legislature put together a bill to help curb the flow of illegal immigration, which is a drain on taxpayer and consumer resources without a guarantee of putting back into the system — not to mention a violation of law, which is the most important part of the argument (and is the point most often obfuscated by the pro-Illegal Immigration Left).

    If I am speeding and get pulled over, I am being punished for breaking the law. I don’t complain that the police are “anti-driver”; rather, driving is legal, but doing so in an illegal fashion is not. Likewise, immigrants, and immigration, are and should be welcome parts of America and its society. The fact that there are legal restrictions on it does not mean that the nation — or the GOP, which is currently the party in favor of border and immigration enforcement — is “anti-immigrant.” The fact that the GOP favors enforcing these legal restrictions also does not mean that they are anti-immigrant. What it means is that they are in favor of enforcing the law, protecting taxpayer-funded institutions from pillaging by those who do not pay in, and, above all, ensuring order in the process of crossing into this country — an absolute necessity in this day and age when international terrorism is fighting to cross our doorstep and to hit us again at home.

  5. RiverRat says:

    Demonbeck, the Dems have done even less than the GOP as a party, frankly. Individual members have been great, but the party sucks.

    I say “anti-immigrant” because while some folks in the GOP may honestly believe that the debate is only about illegal immigration, most folks know that is a cock and bull story. It’s like when folks from Cobb or Gwinnett used to talk about “that element” in Atlanta. The rhetoric surrounding this debate is the same rhetoric used when

  6. RiverRat says:

    Demonbeck, the Dems have done even less than the GOP as a party, frankly. Individual members have been great, but the party sucks.

    I say “anti-immigrant” because while some folks in the GOP may honestly believe that the debate is only about illegal immigration, most folks know that is a cock and bull story. It’s like when folks from Cobb or Gwinnett used to talk about “that element” in Atlanta. The rhetoric surrounding this debate is the same rhetoric used with every wave of immigration, from the Irish to Pols and Germans, and so forth. I’m sorry, but hiding behind “its only the illegals” is crap. The votes from the illegal immigration issue are going to come from folks who don’t like all the brown folks building their houses.

    Illegal immigration is a problem, but just look at the congressional bill as an example – the radical house GOP doesn’t want to consider anything that will actually help the problem, they simply want to scapegoat people. They play to people’s fears and prejudices. It is a very simple formula.

  7. CobbGOPer says:

    Politics is all about playing to fears and prejudices, sir. It’s an election year, in case you hadn’t noticed.

  8. John Konop says:

    CobbGOPer,

    I am sure you were kidding when you said, “Politics is all about playing to fears and prejudices, sir. It’s an election year, in case you hadn’t noticed”

    The issue about illegal immigration cuts both ways. If you are a Dem and you support illegal immigration to grow unions and voters while hurting wages and jobs this is wrong.

    If you are a Republican and all you want to do is legalize cheap labor and promote hate it is wrong.

    This is not a party or race issue it is about our Country. And both parties are guilty of using this issue to divide Americans.

  9. Melb says:

    So CobbGOPEr, then you admit that is what Sonny is doing?

    “Now the Democratic party may be willing to kowtow to criminals and their friends for a few votes. I certainly hope the Republican party never does.”

    “I am willing to argue, though, that the Latino community – based upon the ethics instilled by their culture (strong family, strong Catholic church, unmatched work ethic) – will find a place in a Republican party that espouses the virtues of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps rather than keeping people permanently on the government dole.”

    Demonbeck, First off, Latino Immigrants, legal or illegal, really resent being called criminals. They are trying to work for the survival of their families. If you call that a criminal, then we all are. If they could come over here legally they would. Democrats have the ethics that Latinos can relate with because they see the ethics we have while drafting bills in Congress that aren’t anti-immigrant, playing on fears and prejudices, bills. Many are becoming tuned in with the rallies and the actions that are happening now. These actions are going to shape their opinions later. If you think that immigrants are going to vote for Republicans after SB 529 you have another thing coming. All over the country LEGAL immigrants are saying, “we need to get involved, we need to register to vote, look at SB 529.”

    Jeff,
    Many immigrants do pay taxes (fake ss#’s) and many do not use government services (fear). Probably the number 1 service used by Latinos whose parents are undoc. immigrants are Latino children in public schools, but usually they are American citizens. Most and probably a majority agree on border security. I don’t see that as anti-immigrant at all. We need to stop the flow of undocumented people into our country, but at the same time give them a path to come over legally. The laws we have now our crap. In relation to your analogy. It is like asking some to drive 15 mph on the interstate and then admonishing them when they break the law by going 50. It is not the people who need to change their driving habits it is the law that needs to change.

    Blazer,

    Now I have a question for you. Was it a bad thing to take illegal immigrants (aka someone who is blatantly breaking US law & GA law) off of Medicaid/Welfare services? First, not many undoc. immigrants use these services, but for those that are, if you take them off you are more likely than not hurting their children, not them. That is why I would argue it is a bad thing.

    Immigrants do not come over to America looking for a handout, they come here looking for work to provide for their families. Many are just looking for their basic survival needs. SB 529, while not all completely bad (aka human traffiking), cuts people off from the jobs they desperately need to provide for their families. That to me and many other Latino immigrants is anti-immigrant.

  10. Melb says:

    I challenge all of you to try and imagine yourself in an undocumented immigrants shoes. The dangerous process they must go through to get here. Many leave their families behind. How cut off from society they are once they are here. All for a better life. I refuse to call these people, illegal, aliens, or criminals. These are people and should be no ones political scapegoats.

  11. Decaturguy says:

    Hmmm … is Sonny trying to beef up his position on illegal immigration in the expectation that Mark Taylor attacks him on it and tries to move to Perdue’s right on the issue?

    Let’s remember that until late in the 2006 legislature, Perdue’s position on illegal immigration was not too much different that the Democrats. He initially said that it was simply a “federal government problem.”

    On January 27, 2006, during the Hispanic Legislative Day ceremony, Perdue stated:

    “I applaud the President,

  12. John Konop says:

    Melb,

    How about imagine a hard working American family that had a father making $20 an hour with healthcare. And now the job pays $8 to $ 10 an hour with no healthcare due to illegal immigrants and Congress.This is not about race to me , we cannot turn are back on working class Americans.

    And this is not free market. Adam Smith did say ““Every man, as long as he does not violate the laws of justice

  13. Melb says:

    John,
    Immigrants are helping our country grow. Studies done by the CBO show that yes, in the short term wages there is a small effect, but long term it has helped the American economy and workers. And this has been proven over and over again with different tides of immigrants.

  14. Demonbeck says:

    “First off, Latino Immigrants, legal or illegal, really resent being called criminals.”

    First off, I only called illegal immigrants criminals. What else would you call someone who breaks the law?

    Secondly, the only folks who are fear-mongering are folks like you who proclaim that SB 529 hurts legal immigrants in some fashion.

    Finally, I don’t know what legal immigrants you are talking to, but I deal with them everyday and they are all in favor of enforcing the laws in the books.

    RiverRat,

    This issue certainly gives the racists a venue to vent, doesn’t it? You and I are in complete agreement on that. However, you are wrong in believing that the entire push for this issue is coming from those sentiments – which, by the way, are widely held on both sides of the issue.

    The answer is to stop the inflow and then deal with the problems associated with it. Our government does a terrible job at everything – even when it can grasp the severity of a problem. Imagine how poorly it would botch this mess as it continues to get messier. You don’t start mopping the floor while there’s still a whole in the roof letting in the rain.

  15. Demonbeck says:

    Melb said,
    August 17, 2006 @ 4:02 pm

    “John,
    Immigrants are helping our country grow. Studies done by the CBO show that yes, in the short term wages there is a small effect, but long term it has helped the American economy and workers. And this has been proven over and over again with different tides of immigrants. ”

    I agree completely. This has always been the case. However, the problem is putting a strain on government services. Enabling our government to regulate the flow of people in and out of the country has become necessary.

  16. atlantaman says:

    “And this has been proven over and over again with different tides of immigrants.”

    No question they have helped in the past, but that was in a time before massive government programs and the huge healthcare burden. In the days of Italian, Irish and Polish immigrants there was no coddling with the typical bleeding heart attitutde of today. There were no bilingual studies in our schools (and no Irish complaining the college entrance exams were unfair to their being written in English), no Italian ATM’s/bank tellers and I don’t think you could have requested a ballot writen in Polish.

    If the current 12 – 20 million illegals are contributing to the economy so much then why have the 5 border states (with Dem and Repub leadership) declared a state emergency.

    Take a hard look at the weight the illegals are placing on the healthcare and government services of Southern CA and TX, because if we allow the current influx of illegals to enter our Country at such and alarming pace Georgia will not be far behind.

  17. Know Nothing says:

    John,

    I am going to have to ask you to provide specific examples of $20/h jobs with healthcare going to illegal immigrants who do the work for $8 and hour. Walk to any construction site and you will not find a skilled worker working for 8 dollars and hour and you will not find an unskilled job anywhere paying 20/h with healthcare.

  18. atlantaman says:

    Shafer earned more than $100,000 in 1999, a personal best. His family vacationed in Know Nothing-

    Here is an excerpt from a March 26th, 2006 AJC article on a man who owns a construction framing company that is on the brink of bankruptcy do to his unwilling to break the law.

    I don’t think there is any question the illegals have decimated the construction industry.

    “Life was good. Shafer thought that as long as people in metro Atlanta wanted homes, he’d be building them. Bids that weren’t close The change was subtle. At first, Shafer figured he’d just hit a rough patch. But as Shafer searched for framing work, it was as if he was competing in a new market. Builders told him his bids weren’t even close. And his U.S.-born carpenters, who were now out of work, too, said the going hourly rate had dropped well below the $15 to $20 Shafer had traditionally paid.

    Shafer said many of his crew members eventually switched to commercial construction or left the business altogether, unwilling to work for such low wages.”

    The rest of the article may be found on AJC.com:

    ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION: One man’s ruin … and recovery

    BYLINE: BRIAN FEAGANS
    DATE: March 12, 2006
    PUBLICATION: Atlanta Journal-Constitution, The (GA)
    EDITION: Main; The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
    SECTION: News
    PAGE: A1

  19. Big Mack says:

    Our local fire chief called this a.m. to say that Mark Taylor was the keynote speaker at the firefighter’s convention this past weekend. He said that Taylor did well with the first page of his speech which concerned firefighter issues but when he went to page -2- he started talking about police issues that were completely unrelated to firefighting. Apparently he had the wrong page -2-. Some of you with front page posting ability, please check this out and let the rest of us know what happened. Our chief was really hacked about this. He said that Taylor did not realize that the page -2- speech had nothing to do with firefighting. Our chief is a democrat so it must have been bad.

  20. atlantaman says:

    No irony in Mark Taylor speaking at the firefighter’s convention. Who screwed up the speech – Josh White?

  21. RiverRat says:

    Demonbeck, I agree that getting a handle on our immigration situation is important. However, if you look at what how GOP is using the issue, it is obvious that they are not interested in solving anything. They are interested, typically, in getting on a soapbox and scapegoating as many people as possible to drum up votes from their extremist, isolationist base, (the one who were calling for Clinton’s head when he went into Kosovo) who see immigrants as an invasion.

    Our congressmen are on record in the paper as admitting they didn’t want to hear a diversity of ideas at the recent hearings – they wanted people up there who supported the extremist position of the House. You’ve got a national GOP chairman who recently apologized for the “Southern Strategy” – which used similar tactics to drum up racist support in the south all the while denying that it had anything to do with race. How can you not expect people to see this as the same thing? How can YOU not see this as the same thing?

  22. Jeff Emanuel says:

    RiverRat…is the GOP base “extremist, isolationist” (i.e., against Kosovo, etc.) or “imperialistic” (i.e., for action in Iraq? The arguments are consistently inconsistent.

  23. RiverRat says:

    I would never say the GOP base is imperialistic. There is a reason Bush said he wasn’t interested in nation building in 2000.

  24. RiverRat says:

    Jeff, personally, I find the “imperialist” stuff a bit tiring. I think our country has always prefered to exert a strong influence in world affairs, but there is also a reason that Bush had to sell Iraq on the WMD stuff – he had to convince an isolationist base that Iraq threatened us.

  25. John Konop says:

    Know Nothing,

    This is of many examples of people hurt by illegal immigration.

    http://www.businessnc.com/archives/2006/05/mexico_way.html

    Melb,Demonbeck

    Most economist agree now , that the old studies about immigration do not apply to what is happening now. If you change the factors you cannot use the same data. In fact the most liberal open boarder economist admitted, it is not working.

    http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/03/paul_krugman_no.html

    If you want I will give more information from economist on the right or left. Atlantaman post was right on.

    Atlantaman point about California and Texas, people in Georgia should take note.I lived in both states before Georgia, and it will happen here.

  26. Jake Tullman says:

    From what i hear, alot of Republicans did alot of work on the immigration bill this year, but that Sonny or his staff wasn’t a part of crafting it at all. This is just what I am told, could be wrong.

  27. CHelf says:

    The ironic part about this whole issue is that only the illegal aliens themselves are targeted both by the protests and the laws. VERY LITTLE addresses the actual AMERICAN people who are breaking the law. You hear about how crossing the border without documentation is illegal and the rule of law should apply. Where is the outcry over the American citizens and businesses who are not only breaking the law but defrauding the taxpayers with an undue burden? We have to cover for this undue burden because a few Americans want to come out cheaper with a few jobs.

    Give me a politician who has the – well cajones – to stand up to the business community, yes those patriotic flag waving Americans, who are breaking the law. Make them pay for tax evasion, medicare fraud, social security fraud, etc. I guarantee you if you started sticking it to the AMERICANS breaking these laws, there would be little hiring of illegals. No place to work means they go elsewhere.

    I just find it ironic that in all of this talk of breaking the law and rule of law we’ve completely missed the boat on punishing the ones actually hiring these people. Only going after the illegals and avoiding punishment for the Americans breaking American laws gives the appearance that this is a racial and ethnic issue afterall. I know I’ll be pounced on for that last statement but what can you say when Americans break the law and get away with it along with pocketing extra money in the process but a few people just trying to live a better life are shipped back to Vicente Land?

  28. John Konop says:

    CHELF,

    You are right. The truth is many in Congress pretend to be for illegal immigration reform and at the end of the day they have just sold – out to multi-national corps that employee or contract with illegal immigrants.While the rest of us pay the bill(healthcare,schools…).

    We do not need any more new laws , why not enforce what we have today. We can fine a company up to 10k per violation.Would not a $10 million dollar fine be a wake up call to Tyson Chickens,PluteHomes………. The real question is why do both parties in congress not want to enforce the current immigration laws? And we all know the answer.Follow the money!!!!!

  29. Melb says:

    Demonbeck,
    I too work with Latinos every single day and I cannot imagine who you work for, but my guess would be the GAGOP Latino branch.

  30. GADemObserver says:

    I thought we were talking about the ad, not debating illegal immigration. But, whatever, that’s as good a topic as any. In terms of the ad, I think the music is pretty good, and the visuals play well with Sonny. I can’t make up my mind whether or not I think the quick cuts are good or *too* quick. I haven’t seen it on the tv yet, does that make a difference?

  31. rugby_fan says:

    I saw it on TV tonight.

    Not a whole lot different in terms of the effect. The cuts are less confusing on TV.

    I will say this, the ads are by and large ineffective. SP has not had a bump in his numbers while MT has remained silent. I know that after labor day the race will heat up but, we should have seen a jump in SP’s numbers or a decline in MT’s with these ads.

  32. Melb says:

    I think he is using it as a tester. Does he get feedback? and what is the reaction of the general public? Then he will know whether to use it later on or to try to find some other issue/tactics.

  33. Melb says:

    Also what the hell did sonny do to lend a hand to Latino legal immigrants? If he treated them like the rest of Georgians than he gave us a huge tax increase. If he treated them like immigrants well then they must have been ignored because that is all he has done.

  34. Demonbeck says:

    “Melb said,
    August 17, 2006 @ 10:42 pm

    Demonbeck,
    I too work with Latinos every single day and I cannot imagine who you work for, but my guess would be the GAGOP Latino branch. ”

    It’s not surprising that someone who works for GALEO thinks so negatively about the Republican Party. Don’t you guys work for ALL Latinos – not just the ones you happen to agree with?

    “However, if you look at what how GOP is using the issue, it is obvious that they are not interested in solving anything. They are interested, typically, in getting on a soapbox and scapegoating as many people as possible to drum up votes from their extremist, isolationist base”

    I am sorry but I am going to have to call bullshit on this one. I have already said it once, but apparently it needs repeating, “You don’t start mopping up the water when there’s a hole in the roof letting rain in.”

    We HAVE GOT to stem the flow of illegal immigrants crossing BOTH borders before we can assess and fix this problem.

  35. John Konop says:

    Demonbeck,

    Melb is right , if you want to clean up the problem go after employeers.And you want the issue not the solution.

    You step around the issue as usual via this comment.

    “You don’t start mopping up the water when there’s a hole in the roof letting rain in.

  36. Demonbeck says:

    The problem with enforcing on employers, John, is that quite often illegals purchase fake social security cards. How is Farmer Brown in Vidalia going to distinguish between a fake and real social security card? Why should he be held liable for not being able to distinguish between the two when we don’t even hold restaurants liable for serving folks who show fake IDs?

  37. John Konop says:

    Demonbeck,

    I work with the software in the payroll industry.In fact what happens is the payroll company informs the employeer of the illegal immigrant and then the employeer takes a new fake card or they move on to the next job.

    If anyone wanted to solve the problem the payroll companies could give all non- matches to ICE and pick the guys up. Or if you saw a bunch of non -matches you would know the employeers to focus on.

    I come from the payment industry, we move billions of dollars of transaction with losses in the bassis points.This is not about technology ,it is will to do something about the issue.

    The same is true with a visa. 1 out 2 illegals who come here on visa get lost on purpose and stay.We have everything from pins, bios…. that could issued to check&track visa holders for years.We could charge the visa holder the cost of the transaction and the card.The networks are built today. in fact many are here in Atlanta.

    When I debated Tom Price, when he was asked about enforcement of employeers he danced.

    Bottom line you cannot say you are only for going after illegals and not employers without looking like a racist. I am not saying you are a racist Demonbeck, only that is what it looks like when you say go after the illegals and the employers.

  38. Demonbeck says:

    John,

    I don’t know what thread you are reading, but I never said that. I inferred that most businesses don’t have the technology to detect a fake SS card and it is a problem. Should we go after businesses that cannot do this? Not every company uses a payroll company for their paychecks.

    What I said over and over again is that our first priority should be stopping the flow of illegals across the borders – before we assess and fix this problem.

    Our first step should not be to round up the immigrants on a case by case basis as more immigrants come in daily. How do you propose paying for all of the ICE man hours it would take to round 12 million individual people up while new illegals stream across the borders every day?

    I don’t see why it is such a shocking demand that we stop the problem before fixing it.

  39. John Konop says:

    Demonbeck,

    All employers get rejects from bad SS#s. It take around 90 days for the company to be informed.This could also be done in less than 10 seconds.

    The way you would manage the flow is go after the largest employeers first. The government has all the data. That is how we know that about 10mm in fake SS #s used in 2004.

    As the jobs dry up you would see people going back home. In areas like farms with a shortage we could use prison labor at the going rate. This could off set the cost of prison.When we get the system under control bring people in as needed.

    While at the same time protect the boarders , but we most use a new visa system that I talked about above. If 1 out of 2 illegals get here from a broken visa system, boarder enforcement will not fix your problem.You will only see an increase in visa violations.

  40. Melb says:

    Demonbeck, I don’t work for GALEO, but nice try. And businesses don’t have to have the technology. If they have a question about a SS# or find one that is questionable than they can turn it into ICE. Problem is that ICE doesn’t have the funding, personnel, resources or the ability to handle something like this on a large scale. For the small number they handle now, it takes 2-3 months.

  41. CHelf says:

    Demonbeck,

    I will put money on it that social security fraud example you’re using is a drop in the bucket in the hiring practices out there. Considering the employers are paying cash and are not filing a 1099, THAT tells me it is the employers who are breaking the law as well.

    You used the example of mopping while there is a leak. Are you saying that people who break the law should not be punished? I mean what’s the point in pushing the issue and pushing rule of law when you ignore THOSE lawbreakers. Wouldn’t THAT be amnesty? Why is THAT amnesty fine? I mean aren’t you giving lawbreakers a pass on hiring these illegals?

    Double standards are coming out of the woodwork here. Punish the illegals for lawbreaking but not the Americans. Amnesty for illegals is bad but amnesty for American lawbreakers is fine.

    You say that these illegals are causing a crisis on costs of healthcare, education, etc. Then punish the ones who are breaking the law by not filing proper taxes. Makes this a IRS and GA DoR domain issue. THAT will add some more law enforcement to the cause to clean up the issue.

    I will beg to differ on the whole cost issue. Keep in mind that most state and local services are funded by sales tax, advalorem tax, etc. The illegals do pay all of those types of taxes. They are buying goods on a constant basis. They are contributing to the state and local tax coffers. While they are ignoring the payroll taxes, you cannot say they are not contributing.

  42. caroline says:

    John Konop is right about the SS numbers. At my husbands company, a lady kept her second’s husband’s name and was using it as her legal name. Apparently, she never changed here name on the SS card and when the company sent in the money to SS, the company got a notification about her. Anyhow, the company had to issue her paychecks with her previous marital name for anything to be legal.

  43. Demonbeck says:

    John and Melb,

    A large portion of Georgia’s illegal immigrants are migrant workers. They move every season depending on harvest times for crops. If it currently takes our federal government 90 days to verify a fake SS# from an honest employer, then…

    1. The migrant worker will be gone before the info comes back
    2. how much longer will it take with more people using the system?

    John,

    Since when has our federal taken ten seconds to do anything but spend a ton of money? No way that will ever happen.

    And bringing in prison labor to do the jobs illegal immigrants are currently doing? Give me a break. There are so many problems with that idea, I cannot even figure out where to start.

    CHelf,

    I never said they don’t contribute at all. They just don’t contribute (as a whole) at the levels they are taxing the system.

    For example, since they are illegal, they do not have insurance. Thus, when they get sick, they go to the emergency room instead of a regular doctor and they don’t pay. The emergency room costs the state a lot more then a regular doctor visit. I am certain you don’t want to advocate for free health insurance for all illegal immigrants.

    All,

    I personally think we should go after businesses who hire illegals, but doing so poses several tough problems to solve. As I have continually said in this thread. OUR FIRST PRIORITY MUST BE TO SECURE THE BORDERS!

  44. John Konop says:

    Demonbeck,

    The migrant worker are the ones using fake SS#s. And you are in the Ag. business somehow and you know game. Come on Demonbeck , please do not tell me that you are not another fake immigration reform guy ?

  45. John Konop says:

    Demonbeck,

    Your point,

    “Since when has our federal taken ten seconds to do anything but spend a ton of money? No way that will ever happen”.

    It is software not the government. This happens today with other products all day long. Food stamp cards can take less than 2 seconds today depending on the system for Auth.

    And you know better, you are a smart guy with an agenda. Melb may be right about you on this issue.

  46. Stephanie says:

    Laws have to be enforced regarding the illegal hiring by businessowners/corp-
    orations. Rather than re-locate every Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Toll Brothers to South America, Indonesia, or China; these entities have encouraged illegal immigration via the “Americans won’t work these jobs” rhetoric. I was recently reading about corporations pulling up roots in Mexico (wage: $3.19/hr.) to relocate to Indonesia (wage: .69 cents/hour). The manipulation of human beings and the environment has to STOP.

    Further, both parties are guilty of colluding against American working class families when they passed NAFTA/CAFTA. Once again it was the “Party of Davos” types that work jointly against American citizens (and global workers) in the name of profit. (There is a Jockey plant that closed in Millen, GA: the jobs are going to El Salvador & Costa Rica).

    Corporations violating laws relative to employing illegal immigrants should result in the following:

    SANCTION CORPORATIONS – make it a . . .

    1) A felony offense
    2) The imposition of STEEP fines based on company size – a % of gross sales
    3) Loss of tax abatements/incentives
    4) A national law to prevent penalized corporations from relocating resulting in sudden economic loss for the community in which they operate –
    5) Reduction of benefits, pay, stock options, etc. > officers/board members who willingly engage in breaking the law through their companies
    6) Force corporations to pay a high % toward social programs that THEIR (illegal) employees utilize (since they don’t withhold taxes/pay benefits, etc.).

    Bush hasn’t “cracked down” on the illegal immigrant issue because his buddy, Pres. Vicente Fox’s 2nd highest source of revenue in Mexico is the money that the illegals send back home!

    Bush didn’t initiate anything until citizens in the border states protested. After all, he is in a precarious position given Jeb’s marriage to the Salinas (sp?) family. (Carlos Salinas, is especially troublesome – drug cartel) Then you have the embarrasing Schiavo episode: Brian Daley (Martinez’s office) is the guy who cooked up the plot to market to use it as a polarizing wedge in an attempt to underscore the so-called compassionate conservative B.S. When Brian’s memo was discovered, he resigned.

    Borders? Most of the terrorists have come in through Canada – Canada’s welfare system is preferred: they don’t have to work while plotting . . .

    Drug trafficking comes through our southern borders: USGC in Miami use to pull in the top: 79% of the total shipments confiscated.

  47. CHelf says:

    After reading this morning’s AJC and seeing that GA is now top billing for illegal aliens, I wonder what the spin will be by both sides as to these numbers. Why is GA now a nationwide haven for illegals? Why is it increasing so much? Could it be that all of those good Red State voters are closet beneficiaries of illegal activity?

    I am a conservative so before I get knocked for the Red State comment let me say that I find it quite ironic that polls show overwhelming numbers of Georgians are against illegals but yet our state is top when it comes to numbers.

    Perhaps there is a mindset that people are against it but if they know it is going to happen anyway and know they can benefit from it they will accept it after all. My favorite part is to see a large pickup with GOP stickers on it pulling into the QT loading up on these migrant workers in the morning.

    While yes there should be some attention to the border, we’re still ignoring the whole premise for the argument here. Everyone of the people who are using the logic of illegals should be punished for breaking the law, should also apply that to the good flag-waving Americans who are breaking their own laws and defrauding our tax, medicare, and social security system. Those good Americans are making it quite difficult for other Americans who work twice as hard to pay for these extra burdens in benefits while those breaking the law pocket extra money. Again I ask, why are Americans getting AMNESTY? I keep hearing amnesty is wrong and we should punish those breaking the law. If that is the case, apply this across the board. Make Joe American pay back what he stole from me. I now see rule of law only applying to half the issue and people using this for political gain. This is a problem. But I see Americans who hire these people and make a larger profit at my expense needing more punishment than a family who lives in squalor only seeking the benefits offered by the American dream.

    To Demonbeck I ask, while one agency addresses the actual border issue, is it too much for the IRS and GA Dept of Revenue to also address the other issues of illegal action as well? Is it too much to ask the state governments to do their part by making it a crime to hire these people that defrauds the state and its people? Why doesn’t the Legislature make it a law to punish these locals who break state laws? There are already laws on the books about tax fraud. Punish these people. Take away business licenses. Fine them. Jail them. Do something instead of giving them amnesty. THEN you will see this issue drying up.

    But as I said before, I don’t think enough leaders have the courage. I think more are actually benefitting from this than we are led to believe. And judging by how many illegals are flocking to GA, something is going on here that deserves some more in depth investigation. It’s hard for me to imagine that such an overwhelming number telling pollsters they are against amnesty and want tougher laws are doing their part to drive out the hiring of these illegals.

  48. Demonbeck says:

    CHelf,

    I agree with you. This is not a one headed monster. However, our government has a tendency to solve one part of the problem and then move on. Priority number one should continue to be stopping the flow of illegals across our borders.

    I think Stephanie had some good ideas on how to punish businesses. What I fear though is that legal immigrants will suffer in the long run – because businesses will be unable to decipher what documents are real and which ones are fake.

    It’s not simply a matter of technology. It’s a matter of implementing that technology effectively and evenly – which is a hell of a lot easier said than done.

  49. CHelf says:

    And tell me how we stop this. How do we stop the flow? We cannot stop drugs from coming in. The Soviets and East Germans learned a wall cannot stop those wanting to go where the grass was greener. We’ve always encouraged people to leave oppression and move to pursue a better life…the American Dream…etc. These people have nothing back home. They’ve got gangs, drugs, poverty, etc. Frankly I’ve seen many situations in these countries and cannot deny that I’d do the exact same thing if I were in their situation. These people risk a lot just to earn a living.

    I’d honestly like to know how to stop this at the border. Throw up a wall and see what happens. We’ll see a flood of people flowing across and risking all to get the last chance to get in. Again note when the Berlin Wall went up. People risked death to get across before the wall went up. Once the wall goes up, most will be locked in here and go underground. The risk? Let’s see. Make some money and then get booted across the border. They leave with money and can go back home achieving what they set out to do. I’d say the process is worth it for them.

    Now if we made it extreme to hire, then their source of employment dries up. They have no reason to come here in the first place if no one hires them. Supply and demand. If the demand is not there (due to steep penalties) supply dries up.

  50. Demonbeck says:

    Dry up the source of money from legitimate sources and money will come from illegitimate sources – they’ll still come in droves for free health care etc. There will always be more opportunity here in America than over there.

    It doesn’t have to be a wall, but it needs to be effective.

  51. CHelf says:

    I’m just not finding out some large misuse of healthcare here. Most illegals choose to remain low-key for good reason. I’ve talked to staffers at Emory Eastside, a few of the ‘quick patch’ medical care places, and a hospital in Greensboro and they all say that if anyone of ‘questionable’ background comes in it is usually worst case medical needs and they’re dragged in by someone of legal background or family member who is scared enough to risk deportation. They all say there is no mass misuse of the system. The ‘quick patch’ places are usually ones you pay cash for.

    I’d like to talk to some billing departments to see what the pay rate is for legals and the rate for illegals is. It would be interesting to see the comparison in who pays their bills and who gets a reduction or skips out.

  52. CHelf says:

    Oh and to your first sentence, how can the source be legitimate when it’s clearly illegal to begin with? Hiring illegals is already illegitimate. Cut that off or make it such a penalty no one can risk hiring illegals and you’ll see the demand die off. These illegals go where they can find work – hence migrant workers.

  53. Melb says:

    Demonbeck, People don’t risk their lives to come here to try and get free healthcare, they come here for a job.

  54. Bill Simon says:

    I think we should encourage some of those Indian tribes who build extreme profit-making casino enterprises in the U.S. to build some in Mexico and employ the locals there.

    How about this: We pass laws that repeal their exemptions from paying taxes (which was put in place courtesy of Abramoff and DeLay) in the U.S., and they will gladly build new operations in Mexico.

  55. Demonbeck says:

    Melb,

    They come here for opportunity – which is much more abundant in the US. If there are no job offers from legal businesses (businesses that are otherwise legal to run in the US, CHelf), there will still be opportunity from businesses that are already illegal here.

    If we don’t start stopping people at the border first. This problem will only worsen.

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