This piece was posted at 6:32 this morning. I’ve bumped it back up top. I think it is an important post for the Republican side and I certainly concur with Senator Staton’s sentiment.
“There is more at stake than my personal feelings or yours. If we want Republican principles to be lived out through state government then we must come together and work for a total victory this fall
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State Senators and John Oxendine are not non-partisan, neutral entities. They also pay for their Senate stationary out of their own pockets on most occasions. Oxendine pays for his through the campaign.
I also did not complain that Ralph Hudgens and Cecil supported Reed, nor Lynn Westmoreland. Hudgens is also supporting John Ox, even though they both support different people for Lt. Gov.
Neither did John Oxendine fire me when I was supporting Ralph openly, like Sadie did to Dave Johnson.
The definition of hypocracy is that double standard.
If you want to start paying double for your insurance, let a trial lawyer become insurance commissioner and open the flood gates. Your face will look pretty silly without the nose you cut off to spite it.
Bill,
Are you denying our founders were influenced by the laws of the Bible? Come on Bill you are smarter than that.
Michael:
are you avoiding Bill’s question? come on, you’re smarter than that.
Michael-
They were influenced without a doubt but they took care to let it not interfere with the workings of such a new nation.
Alan Wolfe recently reviewed three books which explored the question were our founding fathers actually men guided by faith? (Practically speaking they were Diests rather than Christians.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/books/review/07wolfe.html?ex=1153454400&en=5bc20948c92d7180&ei=5070
Quote: “To be sure, they proclaimed that religion was the source of morality and peppered their speeches and state papers with religious language. But it does the historical record no service to see them as compromising on the conflict between reason and revelation the same way they compromised on the power of big states and small ones. Men of the Enlightenment, they feared what Washington called “the horrors of spiritual tyranny.” Their conception of religious liberty made room for non-Christians and even nonbelievers, and their language deliberately avoided sectarian terminology. They were intellectual radicals, willing to push the idea of religious tolerance further than it had ever been pushed before.”
The horrors of spiritual tyranny are what many today fear from the extreme Christian Conservatives.
I am not avoiding Bill’s question. He has not refuted my statement. But for the sake of time.
In a study performed by Donald S. Lutz called “The Relative Importance of European Writers on Late Eighteenth Century American Political Thought” which appeared in the 1984 edition of American Political Science Review, it was found that the Founding Fathers referenced directly the Bible or the works of authors who referenced the Bible in more than a third of their writings. Lutz studied more than 15,000 papers, books, and letters written by the founders to come up with his findings.
When looking at drafting the Constitution the Founders studied all forms of government and all forms of law and law givers including the Law as written by Moses when forming our Constitution.
But our Founders were smart enough to put limits on what man can do in the name of Religion to subject others. The founders guarded against Religious tyranny thankfully. But to deny Biblical roots is naive.
duluthmom, I could not agree more and I am not advocating that we have a theocrasy. It is sad that the persona of Christian Conservatives is what it is. CC’s have allowed themselves to be defined as such because they have not rebuked there own. But that is changing. We no longer tolerate when our religion is highjacked for political gain. Ralph Reed felt the brunt of that. But there is still alot of work to be done to clean up our image. Many Evangelicals voted for change by voting for Cagle.
Michael,
To say that the writers of the Constitution were influenced by the Bible is quite a different matter than you claiming “our Constitution is based on the Bible.”
Perhaps the Founders also read Dante’s Inferno and it may have influenced their writings as well to avoid creating a country of Hell on Earth.
Would that mean our country is based on Dante?
Correction:
Michael didn’t say the Constitution was “based” on the Bible. My personal mistake…I just have run into that claim so often over the past 10 years that I projected that argument on the conversation. My mistake.
Guys, we just got done with Cagle-Reed. Can ya’ll take the serious issues elsewhere? Go to Political Vine and argue these non-winnable debates, crazy is all sold out here.
No worries Bill. I know how excited you get. And Demonbeck welcome to the front page. This is a Cagle-Cagle thing. We all supported Casey.
I know we all supported Casey, but can’t we take a break from the unwinnable arguments for just one day?
Actually the Constitution was based in part on Blackstone’s Commentaries.
Hey everyone-
Let’s help Cindye Coates!!!
She is a great candidate to work with. Nobody
works harder or smarter. Her district is 75% dem
and she lost in 2004 by only 150 votes.
She is so upbeat ( former NFL cheerleader and
now PhD.) Her platform is Education, Education,
Education.
Here is a message from Dr. Cindye Coates:
================================
Hi [ my real name] -
I agree with your comments. Although our dear friend
did not win the Lt. Governor nomination, we are both mature
enough to see the big picture and what is at stake. Ralph
has worked very hard to build the GOP (on a national
level) and if anyone wants to honor him, they should
refocus now and find another republican candidate to
work with.
You may be happy to know that I received an e-mail
from Judson Hill today saying he was going to help me.
Chip Rogers walked door to door for me in ’04 and is
supporting “our cause ” once gain.
I had lunch with Cecil Staton a few weeks ago and he
surprised me with a very generous contribution. So,
I am blessed with friends in the Senate now as well
as the State House. We have a lot of work to do to
get State House 37 filled.
So, if you know anyone who needs to refocus and
find a new campaign to work with, we are building
a strong team as you know. Call me ASAP.
Thanks a million!
Cindye
http://www.CoatesintheHouse.com
770-794-4995
==============================
Hummm . . . this is same “Dr.” Coates who took a last minute shot a Cagle on behalf of Reed.
She got 1641 votes; her Democratic opponent, also running unopposed, got 1626.
Yes, I would say she needs some help. She might want to call on Casey Cagle and see if HE will help her out. I don’t live in her district — fortunately!
That’s why I tell Republicans who are running for office not to get involved in other races (not that any ever take my advice). Look at Oxendine…he’s lost Jimbo’s vote…assuming he is not really a Democrat agitator and would never have voted for Ox anyway…by supporting Cagle.
I refuse to reargue the merits of supporting Cagle over Reed or who is a Christian and who isn’t and who voted and who didn’t. It doesn’t make any sense – the voters of Georgia have spoken.
I will say that I do NOT agree with Senator Staton on one point and that is, his assertion that the Cagle campaign was successful at planting doubt in people of faith and that they in turn stayed away from the polls. I’m sorry, but I feel that is an insult to the dedicated Republican voters of Georgia who turned out yesterday to vote.
This is going to be the only and LAST time that I discuss this matter, because, as I said in an earlier post, the nominee is selected and that’s it. But, what Ralph did was to set an extreme double standard in his use of Christian values. I believe that the electorate knew this and rejected that hypocrisy. But more than that, I think the voters chose the BEST candidate, Casey Cagle. Remember, experience means a lot. Casey and his team of supporters ran an excellent ground game. They turned out there voters.
Also, remember that everything happens for a reason. The Lord may go on to do amazing things in the lives of the Reed family and this defeat may be the door to a deeper, more intense spirtual level in his faith. You and I do not know.
What we do know, is what the polls said, anything else is conjecture, or anonymous speculation and it needs to end. It’s divisive and has no merit in the political arena.
I’m arguing a similar thread with Dr. Charles Bullock right now.
Where are you arguing it at Shep???
Bahama Boy, you don’t have to worry, Judson, Chip and John Wiles will help her along with the Cobb GOP House members. She did great to receive more votes than Roy Barnes cousin .
That’s right Debbie!
She is not “needy” fot any support outside Cobb.
I just though if any Cobb lurkers or bloggers were
wanting a high energy group to join- C’mon!
Let’s get ” Coates in the House” !
Bah Mama Boy -
FYI- Casey and Cindye are fine!
So you can give it a rest.
Both the House and the Senate majority
are backing her.
We all know how to flush the toilet.
Do you?
I haven’t posted anything since election night. It’s been a combination of recovery and wanting to get my thoughts together. I haven’t posted much on here. I’m fairly new. But I’d like to take a moment to use this as my little soap-box. This will be the last thing I will post about the LG race.
Many of you probably figured out that I was a strong supporter of Ralph Reed. I volunteered a great deal for Ralph, and was close friends with many on his staff. Of course, election night was a big disappointment, but that is done. There is nothing that can be done, and my analysis of the “why” and “how” will probably just come across as sour grapes, so I’ll spare you.
However, what disappointed me nearly as much as the loss, was the way Ralph was treat both on this forum and elsewhere. I believe Ralph Reed to be a good man. I’ve been to several events of his, sat down and ate a dinner with him, heard all of his staff’s stories about working for him day-to-day, and even by virtue of hanging around “his people” got to see him in some of his less guarded moments. After all that, there is one thing that I am sure of: Ralph Reed is the real deal. He is a good Christian man, and he had (and still has) the state of Georgia’s best interest in mind. If people would ever let him stop talking about Jack Abramoff, he had some great policy initiatives, many more so than his opponent. When all pulled together, the made up a nice sized binder, a copy of which is in my desk drawer now. Yes, he ran attack ads on Casey, but we all know that moves votes. (“Master of negative campaigning”, Jeff? Get over yourself, and go read another Hannity book. Leave the electoral stuff to people with experience in it). His ads were fair, and verifiable.
As far as the Abramoff stuff goes, Ralph has said he regretted taking the work. That really doesn’t seem to be enough for some on here. It is unfortunate that some of you could hate a person as much as you hate him. I don’t hate Casey Cagle. I’m not voting for him in November, not out of hate or spite, but because he spent his campaign denouncing the very things he used to win. I watched him lie to a man’s face in Thomasville, Georgia one day about a vote (yes, I checked it), and knew he was no better than the picture he wanted to paint of Ralph. I believe that Casey is a good senator. However, I also feel he has ethical issues of his own, and had he put out more than just rhetoric on Jack Abramoff, I would not hesitate to vote for him in November. As it is…Buckley is my guy.
Finally, many of you talk of “uniting the party” on here as if it’s Reed’s people who need to come back from the wilderness. I believe that burden lies with Casey. Whenever you throw out “forced abortions” and “child prostitution”, I think you bear the responsibility of cleaning up the mess. I do hope we are successful keeping Gov. Perdue in the capital, holding, or advancing our majorities, and capturing some of these constitutional offices. I plan to work hard on my part to see that we do. I’m sure we’ll be okay. I just feel we missed a great opportunity.
I sent him the following email earlier:
Dear Dr. Bullock:
I have to disagree with your take in this line:
Reed’s defeat has set a limit on the influence of Christian conservatives in Georgia’s growing Republican Party, said Charles Bullock, a political scientist at the University of Georgia. “They may be the tail now, but they’re not the dog anymore,
Grand Ol Dawg, Great posting. Cagle ran a campaign based on lies and distortions. It can not go unpunished. Cagle has to pay the piper and I have full confidence he will do so.
I made a contribution to Greg Hecht today and urge other Reed supporters to follow suit.
If you Cagle supporters and State Senate leadership thought the Reed people would unite behind Cagle after the kind of campaign he ran, then you must think we are as gullible as Cynthia McKinney’s supporters.
The party is divided and will remain so in the near future. Look for the Reed folks to regroup and face you Cagle people at the State Convention next year. As far as I am concerned, only one battle was lost. The war will still rage on.
Even though Debbie said she would support the nominee, it was only out of obligation. She said her hubby was voting for the Democrat and I really doubt any Reed supporter will be donating volunteer time for Cagle. There is an underground movement afoot.
I do agree with Debbie, we need to support Gary Black and Karen Handel in the runoff. The State Senators need to be taught humility. Black and Handel are great conservatives. I urge all Reed supporters to unite behind Handel and Black. We don’t need any more State Senators elected to statewide office.
Bahama Boy, as far as Cagle helping out Coates, he will have his hands full with his race. With Reed out of the picture, he won’t have the support he had. The gays and libreals that donated money to his campaign and volunteered will leave Cagle hung out to dry and vote Democrat..
Great sentiments grand old dawg. About 80% of Reed supporters I have talked to feel the same way as you.
Ralph Reed is a great and honorable man and it is Georgia’s loss that Cagle won. Ralph will be back and I will be first in line to volunteer for his next campaign. It was an honor to work with him and his staff.
I will never forget the type of campaign Cagle ran. Unfortunately the negative campaigning worked and it will continue to be used if Cagle is elected Lt. Governor. The fact there was crossover voting had an impact. I saw an email where Georgia Equality was gloating over the fact Reed had lost.
The only reason I support Cagle now is because he is the nominee and the people have spoken. My hubby is not voting for Cagle and he stated that nothing would change his mind.
I am not Christian Coalition and never have been. I supported Bush 41 in 1988 over Pat Robertson. I do think those of you that think the CC is finished in Georgia are beign rather premature. I think the election results have awakened a “sleeping giant”.
It you Reedites want to keep up this argument put up or shut up!
You claim Cagle lied about Reed and his dealings with Abramoff. Quote it chapter and verse. No generalities, thank you. Give me ONE specific quote on paper or in a TV ad and I will document the evidence for you.
You claim Reed’s charges against Cagle are all TRUE! Prove it. Recite the charge and YOU provide me the evidence to back up your assertion. None of this “900 percent ! 900 percent ! 900 percent !” crap either. Please provide verifiable evidence that can be substantiated — something like a lawsuit or a Senate report.
You threaten to vote for a Democrat — ANY Democrat — this November just to teach Cagle a lesson and continue your support for a dying cause. Well, don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
Shep, I agree with your assessment.
Picking up the peices- and then what?
GODawg, Philly, and Debbie –
Consider this a blog hug from Peach.
I know there is a lot of hate language
on here. But, love will never fail.
Although I am a Christian Counselor
by profession, I am not a member of
the Christian Coalition either Debbie.
I have been a free-thinking Christian
who marches to the beat of a different
drummer all of my life. I treat people
who suffer from life’s storms and it
keeps me in constant reality check.
I just hate the way the negative
campaigning worked. It is a really bad
signal to send to our youth. I see
lots of young people who are immitating
this just to feel the thrill of being mean.
The brain chemistry allows adrenalin to be
relesaed and can substain the metabolism
for about 48-72 hours. It is a science.
It will take strong people to stand against
the power of nagative campaigning.
Weak influential people who allow the
power of negative energy to sustain them
are the target of this ploy.
The flip side is when they come off this
high, they end up in a deep depresion, just
like a stimulant. I am senssing that is
coming next. Usually things that are said
in the middle of a fight divide and it
takes a lot of work to mend offenses.
Negative energy is fast but does not last-
That’s why they “go negative” the weekend
before Tuesday. If we moved election day to
Thurday, it would have worn off.
I believe there may be hope for you yet, Peach.
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