Question

Were I a Democrat looking to cross over into the GOP primary, I’d vote for Ralph on theory that — as the Cagle campaign is always telling us — Ralph would be a disaster for the GOP in November.

Just think, were Ralph to win the primary, we’d have 4 more months of this crap (perhaps Cagle should do that as a new ad on why you should vote for Cagle).

So, I’ve got lots of people telling me Dems are going to cross over and vote for Cagle — who lots of Dems tell me would beat Hecht or Martin. Why would Dems do that? Wouldn’t they vote Reed?

Help me out. I’m lost in all the wishful thinking.

39 comments

  1. Maurice Atkinson says:

    All the speculation of crossover votes is mere daydreaming and propaganda. Ralph and company (ie, Tim Echols, Debbie, Sadie and others) have used this as an attempt to discredit and smear Casey.

    Tim Echols defended his letters and statements to me but concurred that Casey was not a threat to conservatives. In his reply to me he wrote “My letter and photocopy of the AJC letter was simply an effort to explain to
    donors to my PAC (of which your friend was one) why I was supporting Ralph.
    I was in no way trashing Casey. Just because homosexuals are crossing over
    to vote for Casey is not any indicator that he supports their
    agenda–because he doesn’t. They just see Ralph as a bigger threat because
    of his reputation as an activist.”

    These people refuse the facts and don’t seem to understand that the ends do not justify the means.

  2. LINDA says:

    So what if ten activist gays are going to cross over and vote for Cagle, big whoopty doo. The bottom line is that Ralph Reed is not what he claims to be, which is a straigh shooting values-oriented conservative. I am not ever going to vote for anyone again based upon them saying they are a Christian, as my sole choice for voting. The smart voters’ votes should go for the person that they would be comfortable doing business with, and not wondering is their a hidden agenda with this contract I am entering into, etc… I was also going to vote for Ralph early on, and thank goodness that we cannot early vote for an entire year! Vote for Cagle, Erick, and just keep it to yourself!

  3. George Allen 08 says:

    Because the left doesn’t care about having a Democrat Lt Governor. Their strategy is “Anyone But Ralph.” The Democrats know that Ralph Reed is one of the most influential figures in American politics, and that he WILL fight for his conservative agenda. The Democrats know that Ralph will cut taxes, pass a taxpayer dividend act, fight for the unborn, and keep gay marriage out of Georgia. And they know he’s capable of all this. Not only that, but the national Democratic Party is scared that Ralph will gain momentum in Georgia and run for a higher office in the future, only further spreading conservative values. Democrats don’t want this to happen, and that’s why they would cross over to vote for Cagle.

    Democrats just don’t see Cagle as a threat to their liberal agenda.

  4. LINDA says:

    I see two spelling errors, sorry. “Straight” and “there” instead of their in fifth sentence from bottom. I need to go back to bed and get up on the right side. Ha!

  5. landman says:

    There will be little to no crossover voting in this race,this is just another scare tactic on Ralph’s part to use on nonthinking Reed worshipers.

    The real question is how many borderline voters that vote Dem but that are conservative at their core could Reed pullover in November and I will proffer up the answer of little to none.This is where Ralph hurts our party he has no ability to swing any voters our way,he is a polarizing candidate that would be an extremly large liability going into the General.

  6. LINDA says:

    Well George, you are right about one thing, which is that “Ralph will fight for his own conservative agenda.” He may be fighting for his agenda, but not mine and others! And btw, did you know that a senator has never been elected President, correct me if I am wrong. I assume you are supporting George Allen in 2008, it isn’t going to ever happen. The next President will come out of the Southwest! The immigration issue is a big problem that we face and a DC established politician is never going to win.

  7. Maurice Atkinson says:

    George, your last line is nothing more than hooey. I’m out of words to describe the drivel that comes out of the Reed camp.

    I’ll concede this race has not been fun. It has been like chasing cockroaches. However, it has been a tremendous educational experience.

    What has been overshadowed in this race is the fact that Casey is a tremendous human being. He’s intelligent, hard working, strong in his conservative beliefs and wants to do an effective job for ALL Georgians. This is commendable. And, hopefully from July 19th until November those facts will be in the forefront.

  8. Bill B. says:

    Maurice,
    The last paragraph in your above post is hooey! The only thing overshadowed in this race is Ralph’s agenda for a better Georgia. Instead of discussing vision and ideas Casey slung mud. He did it from the start and hasn’t quit.

  9. Romegaguy says:

    It will just give Ralph (and Debbie, et al) something to shout about as the only reasoning they could have lost next Wednesday. They wont be able to accept the simple fact that Ralph lost because he is Ralph.

  10. StevePerkins says:

    At this point I’m more or less going to vote a straight Libertarian ticket in November (I may back Perdue if the governor race is close). So yeah, my Republican primary ballot this Tuesday will be a “cross-over” of sorts. However, even though a Reed candidacy would give Libertarian nominee Allen Buckley a nice November uptick, I still am just not Machiavellian enough to pull the lever for Ralph… REED.

    I think the “crossover” factor is always exaggerated in Georgia politics. Maybe, MAYBE it played a role in Cynthia McKinney’s primary loss right after 9/11. For the most part though, Georgia’s primary system works as good as a primary system possibly can… and calls for changing it are ill-advised. I’m all for things that weaken party affiliation rather than reinforce it.

  11. RiverRat says:

    Erick – I don’t know that any Democrats have responded to your question. Mostly just a bunch of RR/CC circle jerking that thankfully will be over soon.

    For just this Democrat – exactly what you said. I would prefer Ralph Reed to be the nominee, plain and simple. I’m going to assume that Martin will win on Tuesday – If it is Martin vs. Cagle, then it is generic Republican vs. generic Democrat, and the democrat looses. I mean, Martin is FROM ATLANTA. That is like spotting Cagle a touchdown. Against Reed, Martin can make a distinction and have a chance at a win. I’ve seen enough of Cagle to know that he ain’t no “moderate”, so I wouldn’t be too happy to see him in office either. They both suck, so I’m gonna go with the one who gives me a shot at winning.

    The problem is that many in the Democratic “base” (or who at least like to think they are) are a) pessimistic about the chances of a Democratic victory of any sort in November; b) simply terrified of the Christian Coalition. Since they don’t think that any Democrat could win in November, they arrogantly think it is their responsibility to “stop Ralph” before he become President, and now is the ONLY CHANCE to do that. Which, because the Christian Coalition is the most powerful and evil force EVER in electoral politics, would of course be the end of the world.

    This is the logic of those who simply MUST cross over in the primary to “stop Ralph Reed”. It is not the logic of anyone hoping for a Democratic victory in November – and it shows you that the people crossing over care more about themselves than the Democratic Party. Which is PERFECTLY FINE, it is their right and their perogrative – so long as they then don’t go bitching about the Democratic Party abandoning them. Because it is obvious that they aren’t about the Democratic base. They are about their particular issues.

  12. Michael C says:

    As I see it, to a Democrat it would be a bigger victory to take down a Conservative Christian Icon like Ralph Reed than to simply win Lt. Governors race.

  13. RiverRat says:

    Nope. I’d rather have the office, personally. Right now, I think it’d be a “bigger victory” in Nov. to beat Cagle than Reed, simply because I think it’d be more difficult.

    I also don’t give the Christian Coalition that much credence. Long term, their perceived power over GOP officials will make it easier to show moderates how extremist the GOP has become. Sooner or later Democrats will go after moderate suburban soccer moms for real, and whackos like Sadie Fields pulling strings in the GOP will make that job easier.

  14. stephaniemills21 says:

    Exactly right Independent Thinker. Cynthia McKinney is great for the GOP. She has no real power and doesn’t do a damn thing in congress that affects our everyday lives, but is a huge fundraiser for the GOP. Just stick her picture on a mailpiece and you guarantee yourself a couple hundred thousand dollars in contributions. Reed will be the same thing. Even if he wins in November, the moderate members of the GOP will marginalize him, never give the LG back any of his powers, and he will be nothing but a fundraiser for the dems.

    All, I can say to the dems that read this board, just think about that ad Cagle ran against Reed’s involvement in the Marianas. Now think about adding Sonny’s picture to that ad. All you have to do is connect the two; “Ralph Reed and Sonny Perdue, two peas in a pod! Are these your values?” etc etc etc. Try as he might to distance himself from Reed, Perdue will get tagged with Raphie’s misdoings (even if it is not fair or right.)

    No matter how mad you are at Mark or Cathy, and Martin and Hecht, just don’t throw away our one shot of keeping the LG’s office.

  15. Rusty says:

    I see Ralph Reed as a symbol of the crowd who wants America to be a Christian theocracy, no freer than the Muslim theocracies sprinkled through the Middle East. That Reed is a phony sociopath who I doubt believes in anything other than padding his own pockets makes it that much more important to derail his career than if he really believed anything he says. None of the Democrats have impressed me much, so why not vote to take that scumbag down before he exits the gate? I view a Democrat’s chances against Casey Cagle for governor in 2010 as much better than against Ralph Reed.

  16. IntheArena says:

    Maurice —

    You might be the first person to describe Cagle as ‘intelligent’.

    If it had anything to do with intellect the election would have been over a long time ago.

  17. Bull Moose says:

    You know that MTV show, Pimp My Ride? Ralph is the first candidate that I can say could be on a new show from CSPAN called, Pimp My Candidate…

    When this is over I think that Ralph should go and work for Michael Jackson, they both need an image makeover.

  18. benevolus says:

    I believe that there have been 2 Presidents in the past 100 years who were Senators just prior to becoming President. Kennedy was the last, and I can’t recall the one before that. It does not happen too often. (I looked into this a couple of years ago but my memory on it is fading.)

    I would be surprised if there were any significant crossover. You have to choose which ballot you want in a primary, so if someone wanted to vote against Reed for example, they have to give up their opportunity to vote for any and all other Dem candidates that they like, and there may be some close races that are important.

  19. RiverRat says:

    Rusty, I don’t really have a problem with your logic, mostly because you are always very up front about not being a part of either party. I do think that you take Reed’s threat too seriously, and I second Stephanie’s point that even if he did get elected, he’d help Georgia dems raise money to fund serious candidates in every elelction for the next eight to twelve years – years where he’d be in a position to marginalize the GOP and the extremist right wing.

    Two terms of Ralph Reed and Glen Richardson in control of the GOP agenda will have the large portion of moderate voters sickened by the GOP’s true side – Eric Johnson and Sonny Perdue are smart enough to know that the stuff the base really wants won’t fly with the general population, which is why they aren’t pushing vouchers or sales tax increases or outright outlawing abortion like South Dakota. Obviously I’d prefer to have Democrats in charge, but watching Richardson and Reed hamfist radical policies through the legislature might go further to preventing the radical right’s long term agenda than anything else.

  20. GOPeach says:

    A U.S. Senate Committee confirmed Ralph has been accused of no wrongdoing. Chuck Colson in his Breakpoint magazine said “Talk about guilt by association…. I have never seen anything quite this vicious since the McCarthy era.

  21. GOPeach says:

    Sorry-

    I was typing too fast.

    In 2004, * Rakoh ( Ralph ) was the Southeastern Regional Director for the re-election of President Bush.

  22. GOPeach says:

    Okay Erick-

    I want to give you my take on your “Question”.

    I think you have excellent logic here. In fact
    if you will recall, I stated the exact same
    thing last week.

    I was trying to help everyone see that the
    liberal left is afraid of that which they fail
    to understand. They are so afraid of people like
    Ralph because he has a BACKBONE; not a wishbone!
    He is a fighter and gets the job done!

    Democrats like to bully but they hate being challenged.
    They do not like it when someone can mobilize and
    motivate conservatives. It’s okay when liberals are
    vocal. It’s okay when liberals march in the streets.
    It’s okay when liberals call conservatives
    ” homophobic nut jobs” right??? But the very second
    a conservative challenges them , they freak out!

    Just because conservatives support family values,
    we are deemed “intolerant” etc… You know the drill.

    Anyway- I agree that if the Democrats wanted to
    destroy the Republican Party and if they thought
    Ralph would do so, they would be crazy to vote
    for Casey. Now you see the way it all gets
    “twisted”. That is why we have to think like
    a chess player. So many of us only think about
    the i cause and 1 effect. We have been dummied
    down in government education. It’s pitiful.

    We need to use the brain the Good Lord gave us.
    We do not need to think 1 step ahead, but 2-5 steps
    ahead. Sometimes we don’t think it through far enough.

    We need to ask WHY????

    Thank you Erick!

  23. BahamaBoy says:

    Uh . . . Ralphie is not off the hook yet as far as Congress is concerned.

    This morning’s Washington Post reported that the House Committee on Government Reform has issued a subpoena to Jack Abramoff’s former lobbying firm seeking all firm billing records “referring or relating to matters involving Jack Abramoff or any person working with Jack Abramoff,” as well as all records reflecting any contacts those lobbyists had with the White House.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/14/AR2006071401365.html

    Well, GOPeach, “working with Jack Abramoff

  24. Bill Simon says:

    GOPeach,

    Shouldn’t you be doing phone calls for Ralph telling people Casey smoked dope with Satan and Saddam and Ralph Reed is a choirboy who needs to be elected?

  25. JP says:

    Gen08, you’re on the money there–I don’t want Reed taking his uber-conservative Christian Coalition agenda to the White House. I’ll admit it. And Linda, I am crossing over to vote for Cagle–and I’m nothing close to an “activist gay,” you gay bashing hag. 😉

  26. mercergirl says:

    Personally, I would love it if the Dems vote for Cagle. I don’t care so long as he wins.

    I’m fairly new to participating in this blog, and I wanted to say this much. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Reed face to face, but I have had the chance to meet Cagle. It was at a Christian Coalition kickoff meeting in Macon, about a year or so ago. Reed did not attend, Cagle did. They both had their aides there. I was very impressed by Cagle’s speech and by his personality when speaking with him. I wish Reed had been there because then he might have been able to offset the fact that his aides were visibly making fun of Cagle while he spoke to the audience- VERY unprofessional in my opinion.

    In my opinion, you are reflected by those around you. I’m sorry that Reed was not there to show me otherwise. Afterwards, I kept in contact with both campaign managers due to my involvment in Macon politics. Cagle’s campaign has been great about keeping me in touch, however after one email I never did hear back from Reed’s campaign. I do not believe there is ever room to be snobby in a political campaign.

  27. GOPeach says:

    Bill Simon-

    It was a pure joy cmapiagning for Ralph today.
    There is so much support! You would probably be
    amazed- completley.

    We went door to door in Vinings in a huge subdivision
    where a lot of people were home relaxing and reading
    their mail. They admitted to being bombarded with
    phone calls and mailers although they were excited
    to see me and several friends out asking for their
    vote for Ralph. Out of the 9 streets we walked –
    only 2 Cagle supporters.

    The main thing that turned them against Casey is
    the fact they had never even heard of CAsey until
    this race. They did not know any Senators in
    Hall County who never sponsored legislation that
    concerned them.

    They knew of Ralph as he has been on FOX NEWS many
    times. They liked the way Ralph thinks big! Ralph
    Reed has no small vision for Georgia. It’s refreshing
    to have an over achiever around who likes to get
    things done.

    Oh FYI- Bahama Boy … His name is RALPH not
    Ralphie. That sounds bit disrectful to be honest
    with you.

    Mercergirl-

    Sen. Cecil Staton was a professor at Mercer
    and he highly endorses Ralph Reed. Also Jay
    Sekulow went to Mercer Law School and he also
    highly endorses Ralph. His son (Jordon Sekulow)
    was Ralph’s campaogn aid until he had to leave
    and go to Law School in Washington, DC.

    I think lots of Mercer folks are with Ralph Reed,
    Ralph is so friendly and he is very down to
    earth. You should write him ralph @ralphreed.com
    and see if he responds to you personally. He
    has replied to everyone I know. He stays up
    late…. real late. 🙂

  28. Maurice Atkinson says:

    GOPeach, you make it difficult to lob bricks, however, since you seem to be a fair minded person, how do you reconcile the mounds of evidence and facts of Ralph’s ethical issues? Isn’t there a black and white? A truth or a lie? or is everything relative?

  29. Reed reminds me of David Duke in Louisiana. His Democratic opponent in the general election for governor is now sitting in jail. His supporters had bumper stickers on their car that said “Vote for the Crook — It’s important”. He beat Duke pretty handily.

    Georgia Republicans (mostly) learned a lesson in the ’90’s – put up an extremist right wing nominee for statewide office and watch the Democrats extend their hold yet again on that office. To Rusty: why we would want to help them nominate a better candidate is beyond me.

    Think about your logic for a second. If Ralph Reed is a right wing force that needs to be beat, where will it be easier to beat him — in a primary dominated by right wing voters (and a few moderates and crossover voters) or in a general election with an anti-right wing Republican mood this November?

    Casey Cagle, to the average voter, is a competent, normal, sane conservative Republican. Just like Johnny Isakson, Sonny Perdue, John Oxendine, George W Bush (back in 2000), Saxby Chambliss, etc — notice a pattern here of Republicans who went on to win and currently hold office in Georgia. Reed is more like Mitch Skandalakis, Guy Millner, Mac Mattingly, Republicans that Georgia (at the time of their campaigns) perceived as too conservative and beholden to the Republican party. And these guys are not in office.

    In fact, think about the 96 senate race that Democrats won. Isakson the moderate, business Republican (Cagle) lost to Millner, the ‘true” conservative on abortion. Then Millner lost his second statewide election in two years. Again, if you think Cagle should be Lt. Gov than by all means vote for him in that primary but if you’d prefer a Democrat in the office that’d be like the team that is about to play the Braves trading their ace for the entire Braves bullpen.

  30. BahamaBoy says:

    GOPeach says I should call Reed “Ralphie” because that “sounds bit disrectful [sic] to be honest with you.”

    I am assuming you mean disrespectful, so I will take you up on that.

    So you want to talk about respect? Like respect for Indian tribes? Or respect for sweatshop workers in the Marianas Islands? Or Enron employees and shareholders?

    Take you pick Peach and we’ll have some conversation. The dishes are done and the kids are off to bed, so I’ve got plenty of time on my hands to counter the pathetic ranting of the Reedites who are stirring the Kool Aid.

    And where’s my Reed endorsement? Surely a man of such character and high esteem could convince one lousy newspaper in the state of Georgia that he is qualified to be the next Lt. Gov? ONE? Half of one? A quarter? Don’t make me open up to Auto-Trader.

  31. Maurice Atkinson says:

    IntheArena,,, coming from someone who hides behind a moniker, pretty slick. I mean is that all the better you can do while hiding?

  32. bowersville says:

    Maurice, sorry but I have to agree with Inthe Arena. Ralph does have the higher intellect to be able continue to con all his supporters. Or is there a lack of Intellect by his faithful followers?

  33. duluthmom says:

    I know that I’ve said this before, I am Independent but landman described my situation perfectly.

    Quote:”The real question is how many borderline voters that vote Dem but that are conservative at their core could Reed pullover in November and I will proffer up the answer of little to none.”

    I have voted both Dem and Republican and am fiscally conservative/socially moderate and in the past I might have voted in the Dem primary.

    After having walked away from the Rep. party 8 years ago I’ve decided to come back and help restore it to the party that could be one big umbrella, and not run by the extremist right.

    I am voting Cagle and have persuaded my typically non-voting husband who’s sick of both parties, as well as two borderline Rep. friends, to do the same.

    It is not an issue of being a RINO or trying to be a spoiler. It is exactly what I said before. I can either complain about the current GOP leanings or try to change them from within. I am choosing to do the latter.

  34. mercergirl says:

    GOpeach-

    While I appreciate your efforts to help me get to know Mr. Reed, it was Jordon Sekulow who was one of the people I observed acting in an unprofessional manner.

    And about Senator Staton, while I know him to be a great man (my mother teaches his kids) and I respect him, I would not vote for someone simply because of who endorses him. The fact is I had the chance to meet and speak with Senator Cagle and I liked him a lot. I am also watching the GOP Lt Gov debate again at the moment and I prefer how Cagle carries himself. However, since I believe myself to be a very fair person I will give your guy one more chance and email him.

    And regarding the Mercer community- I’m an Episcopalian so I could give a care about how those at my school feel.

  35. mercergirl says:

    Ok- I just emailed Reed and will be waiting for his response. Just thought I’d let yall know

  36. GOPeach says:

    Bahamaboy wrote:

    “Take you pick Peach” ?

    Looks like I am getting this Spell Check thing down guys!
    I have never been a blogger until now. This takes some
    getting used to.

    Now I will say this one more time…
    It’s Ralph; not Ralph- ee

    Raphie does not have a “ee” sound at the end of his
    name. It’s just plain Ralph.

    If you worked for Ralph, you would be a Ralph-ee.
    But Ralph is not a Rallph-ee. He is just Ralph.

    Make sense? 🙂

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