236 comments

  1. Mike Hassinger says:

    This poll needs a very large grain of salt. My instincts tell me it’s too small a sample for a State Senate district, and the dates are too far apart to show the “trend” that this Bill Lee guy is claiming Musselwhite has. Most suspicious: The release didn’t include the text of the questions. My BS detector is flashing a warning light.

    Sort of an aside: I looked at both candidates’ web sites. Hawkins has tax cuts, property tax reform and the Fair Tax at the top of his “issues” page. Musselwhite doesn’t mention tax cuts -anywhere- on his “issues” page. Huh? How can anyone claim to be a conservative and not offer a tax cut of some kind? Have we Republicans dropped our opposition to taxes?

  2. Booray says:

    News flash for Mr. Hassinger – Lee Hawkins is a Democrat RINO. I live just across the lake, and everyone up here knows it. He’s been a Dem all his life and is trying to sneak in the back door.

    When did Republicans start believing websites and nothing else?

  3. The Busdriver says:

    I saw Hawkins’ site. He’s got “Spent a Decade Supporting Liberal Democrats” listed on his accomplishments page.

  4. larry smith says:

    Hey, Mike, I have no dog in this fight, but how is 300 respondents too small a sample for a Senate District? And, what the does the population size have to do with margin or error and sample size in the first place? It only matters at the margins, and then only if you make a finite population correction in drawing the sample (rarely if ever done in political polling), right?

  5. Tommy_a2b says:

    Since Musselwhite opened the door. Here is what I know. Musselwhite claims to be the “More Republican Candidate” but he is a tax and spend fiscal liberal. He has sat on the city counsel in Gainesville (a very liberal city) since late 2000. Never publically claiming any strong connection to the Republican Party. Gainesville’s City Counsel runs non-partisan. He has voted for millage rates in the city 3 of 5 possible votes that caused an increase in property tax bills for the city people. In the other 2 votes taxes stayed constant (no tax reductions.)

    Now the Big Wammy- Musselwhite is one of the biggest slumlords in Hall County. His properties have been raided numerous times for being crack houses. He also houses a massive number of illegal aliens in his complexes. A month ago or so one (an illegal who lived in the complex) got murdered at his complex. This stuff he owns is bad news and most people ignore it or do not know.

    Do not believe me in what I am saying. Call the local police and ask them. I am sure Musselwhite will soon post saying everything I said are lies. I challenge you to not believe either of us. Look into it for yourself.

    P.S. I love pushpoles that say you have such a large lead in a 3 way race, ha.

  6. Mike Hassinger says:

    I’m not in that district, Booray, and don’t have all the “history” on this race you and others seem to be aware of. Iwas only commenting on the complete lack of taxes as an issue by Hawkins’ opponent. It’s my personal litmus test for people who call themselves conservatives, and as a rule, I prefer candidates who promise tax cuts over those who don’t -even knowing that campaign promises need a bigger grain of salt than polls that claim gigantic leads and unstoppable momentum. I ask you: When did we stop being opposed to taxes? Did I miss that meeting?

    I’ve also been meaning to ask: Are you the same “Boo” of “Boo Got Shot” fame?

    Larry, to answer your question: I don’t know. My suspicions of the results were based on instinct. But all other things being equal, bigger sample size = lower marign of error. A State Senate district has a VAP of about 105,000 to 110,000. If there’s no Democrat in the race, I suspect it’s pretty heavily Republican. But primary voters turn out at about 1/2 the rate of people who self-identify as Republicans -sometimes much lower than that. Did they poll Republicans who voted in primaries past, or just people who self-identify as Republicans. The release didn’t say.

    There’s no way a pollster would release a poll if the MOE was higher than 15%, (that would just be a bad poll) and that’s not what I meant to imply. There’s more than one way to skew results in a poll, and not identifying the respondents precisely and not releasing the questions asked are two of them. Generally, the stronger and more accurate the poll and methods, the more detail provided by whoever announces it. That didn’t seem the case this time.

  7. Booray says:

    How do you know a candidate is losing?

    He attacks like crazy.

    Based on what I hear from across the lake, Hawkins is attacking like a mad dog. I think Musselwhite’s poll numbers must be dead on.

  8. Mike Hassinger says:

    You may be more right than you know, Booray. Any candidate who can pass himself off as a conservative without even mentioning tax cuts or tax reform of any kind must be extremely confident about something.

    Again, that race is not my district, but I just did a poll of all the likely Republican voters in my basement and found them 100% in favor of candidates who support tax cuts.

    Question: “Tax cuts, do you like ’em big or small?”
    Sample size: 3
    Average age: 39
    66% male, 33% female, all voted in Republican primaries at least twice.
    MOE: +/- 0

  9. TSlaughter says:

    Tommy_a2b (Tommy S),

    Just as Bill stated, you’ve failed to inform this thread that you are the loose cannon on the Hawkins Campaign Committee.

    I spoke face to face with another Hawkins Campaign Committee member who admitted to skewing the facts on an election committee.

    There seems to be a willingness from you guys to attack your opponent with character damaging BS and a willingness to continue a negative campaign even after you’ve agreed not to. And, you’re not willing to attach your name to the slander.

    Seemingly, you attack, then call your opponent a “negative campaigner” when he reveals the truth to debunk your attack.

    Listen, speaking a truth, no matter how unsavory, is not negative.

    Here’s an unsavory truth. You’re a liar.
    And I’ll attach my name to it. I’m Todd Slaughter.

    For the benefit of this thread, I’ll reveal that I’ve been a personal friend of Mark’s for over 15 years. I do not work for Musselwhite, nor do I serve on his campaign committee.

    PS – Tommy, it’s “push polls”… “push polls”. Not “pushpoles”. What a moron.

  10. jsm says:

    Todd,

    I am an unpaid volunteer for Hawkins. My mother worked for a colleague of his who was a previous Georgia Dental Association president and a very conservative Republican. Hawkins’ colleagues respect him and support him. His record is the most conservative in this race.

    You will see on a mailer in your mailbox today that there has been no skewing of the facts, except by Mr. Musselwhite. We have not “attacked” him, but merely illuminated his record. It was Musselwhite who attacked, being the first to mention his opponent. Then he asked his opponents to sign a clean campaign pledge. That’s a great tactic–throw your punches, and then call “truce.”

    Musselwhite called Hawkins a Democrat and a lobbyist. That makes him a negative campaigner. Hawkins spent his own money and time at the capital fighting for patients’ rights, while giving his office staff paid time off. He was not a paid lobbyist. The GDA has issued a letter to this effect. Musselwhite’s ad was dirty and untruthful.

    If you continue to post untrue information on this thread, I will call you on it.

    Lee Hawkins is a conservative Republican, and the poll that counts, on July 18th, is the one that we’re working toward.

  11. jackson says:

    If he is such conservative, why did he vote in all the democrat primaries and give all that money to liberal democrats?

  12. rtwingmom says:

    I would like you all to know Tommy and his sleazy tactics were run out of Gwinnett and It won’t be long before he is run out of Hall Co too. Maybe there is is a place where he can lie, dumpster dive to find info, and try to pin a man’s death on a candidate, but it isn’t here in Hall.

    Lee hawkin’s campaign is nothing but half truths and fabrications. His volunteers put out one thing, then scramble to make up a new story when people point out the lies. i.e. Lee claims that Musselwhite raised the Gainesville city taxes by 50%. He backed his lie with copies of “Tax Proposals”. Not actual increases.He was called out on this. Now they are saying that the assessed value of the home went up, causing the amount paid to go up, so that is where they get the tax increase from. Which is still not 50% and Musselwhite has nothing to do with the assessments. Every 3 years your house will be reassessed. Not all homes are done in the same year, so rolling back the millage would not work. Tax assessments have been around since the begining of time. Mark Musselwhite had nothing to do with it. This is how the gov’t keeps up with inflation. Besides, who’s house is assessed at what it is actually worth? no ones. So how is it Mark’s fault?
    Here is another example of the Hawkins trickery. Tommy says “He has voted for millage rates in the city 3 of 5 possible votes that caused an increase in property tax bills for the city people.”
    He has voted for millage rates. Notice he did not say millage increases. He knows that is wrong. He implies that Mark voted for hikes but he did not so he carefully chooses his words. Every person on the city council votes for millage rates, that is their job for the budget.

    Now as far as Gainesville being liberal, you must be crazy. It is the most conservative place I have ever lived. It is obvious Tommy does not live here, oh yeah, he is still in Gwinnett. He just drives all the way up here b/c no one there can stand him.

    One more point I need to cover is Mark Musselwhite being a slum lord. Tommy, he is NO slum lord. He remodels every place he buys. Didn’t you notice how clean the apartments were when you went over there trying to dig up dirt on him? You do remember interviewing his tenants and employees, don’t you? You did not find anything in your sleazy endeavor.What you did do is confirm to everyone that you are LOW!

    There are many more examples I could write but we don’t have all night so I will save them for later.

  13. TSlaughter says:

    [quote]
    Just as Bill stated, you’ve failed to inform this thread that you are the loose cannon on the Hawkins Campaign Committee.
    (True)

    I spoke face to face with another Hawkins Campaign Committee member who admitted to skewing the facts on an election committee.
    (True)

    There seems to be a willingness from you guys to attack your opponent with character damaging BS and a willingness to continue a negative campaign even after you’ve agreed not to. And, you’re not willing to attach your name to the slander.
    (True)

    Seemingly, you attack, then call your opponent a “negative campaigner” when he reveals the truth to debunk your attack.
    (True)

    Listen, speaking a truth, no matter how unsavory, is not negative.
    (True)

    Here’s an unsavory truth. You’re a liar.
    (True)

    For the benefit of this thread, I’ll reveal that I’ve been a personal friend of Mark’s for over 15 years. I do not work for Musselwhite, nor do I serve on his campaign committee.
    (True)

    What a moron.
    (Opinion)
    [/quote]

    jsm,
    I’ve reread the post. (True) It all seems to be true. (Opinion)

    I also know Lee, and really like him, and agree with you that he is a good man that is generous and well respected by his colleagues. I spoke with Lee on the phone Friday a week ago. He knows how I feel about him, and how I feel about his campaign committee. (True)

    [quote]
    You will see on a mailer in your mailbox today that there has been no skewing of the facts, except by Mr. Musselwhite. We have not “attacked” him, but merely illuminated his record.
    [/quote]

    I read the mailer. It is an attacking (Opinion) misrepresentation (True), and I believe the other four council members and City Manager will take issue with it. (Opinion)

    We live in a rapidly growing community with good property value appreciation. (True) Our homes in the city have almost doubled in value over the past six years. (Opinion) That’s what the mailer actually reveals (True), however the language in the mailer is construed in a fashion to mislead the public. (Opinion)

    [quote]
    It was Musselwhite who attacked, being the first to mention his opponent.
    [/quote]

    This is a Republican primary. (True) Most Republicans want to know a little bit about the candidates and their history with regard to politics. (Opinion) Yes, several weeks ago Musselwhite shared a truth about his opponent’s voting record and financial contributions, as revealed in public disclosure records. (True) That is an unsavory truth. (Opinion)

    [quote]
    Then he asked his opponents to sign a clean campaign pledge.
    [/quote]

    Yes he did, and did so several weeks after the unsavory truth referenced above was revealed,… and after your candidate said to Musselwhite at a local church that he would pull the negative radio ad, which as of today has not happened. (True)

    [quote]
    Musselwhite called Hawkins a Democrat and a lobbyist.
    [/quote]

    Reciting public disclosure records, he spoke an unsavory truth. (Opinion)

    [quote]
    That makes him a negative campaigner.
    [/quote]

    That makes him a voice of public disclosure records. (Opinion)

    [quote]
    Hawkins spent his own money and time at the capital fighting for patients’ rights, while giving his office staff paid time off. He was not a paid lobbyist. The GDA has issued a letter to this effect.
    [/quote]

    I never said Mr. Hawkins wasn’t generous, thoughtful, and giving of his time and blessings. In fact, I’ve said these good things, and many other good things, about Mr. Hawkins. (True)

    [quote]
    Musselwhite’s ad was dirty and untruthful.
    [/quote]

    This is getting really old. (Opinion)

    [quote]
    If you continue to post untrue information on this thread, I will call you on it.
    [/quote]

    Fair enough.

  14. Bill Simon says:

    Mike,

    Candidates who say they are for “tax cuts” are wonderful…except, “tax cuts” don’t mean anything unless we get SPENDING CUTS.

    Spending is the BIG problem right now, both with state government and federal government. Bush and people like Tom Price like to yammer about tax cuts and, meanwhile, vote for and sign bills that increase spending by astronomical amounts.

    So, it’s simple math, really: If you cut taxes and allow spending to remain the same OR, in this country’s case, allow it to rise, then you are paying for that rise via ever-increasing debt.

    As the debt rises in this country, interest payments rise and debt ratings decrease. A lot of this directly affects anyone who invests in real estate (whether their home or commercial property or land) because the interest rates rise.

    Sorry, Mike, but I’m a REAL fiscal conservative and I want the books balanced. The only way to balance THIS country’s books is to slash spending on non-discretionary projects. Ted Stevens’ Alaskan bridge, Tom Price’s left-wing largesse for his district, etc….all these PORK projects have got to go.

  15. GabrielSterling says:

    Bill,

    Not to be smart aleck (is that spelled right), but I’d like to introduce you…

    Bill, this is apple and over here we have orange…

    Two totally different things.

    In state government, county government and city government the books must be balanced as a matter of both law and the state constitution. At the Federal level, you’re absolutely right. A lot of the projects are pork and over spending. Even with the BUSH TAX CUTS (which I know you aren’t saying you oppose) Federal revenues are up. The problem is they keep spending even faster. Hell just grow at like 4% per year and you’re still cutting the defecit.

    But back on subject here, the local governments in Georgia for years abuse the backdoor tax increases and hide and say, “But y’allllll, we kept the millage the same”, while letting the digest rise and guess what. Homeowners pay more taxes.

    Voting to keep the millage the same or even cutting it can still be a tax increase if you don’t roll it back as much as the digest goes up.

    Let’s take for example…Oh I don’t know, oh Gainesville for instance. According to the tax increase ad that Gainesville had to take out (Truth in Taxation Law forced them to do it, why…because they raised taxes) from 2000 to 2006 the tax digest went up 38%.

    OK Property Tax Digest up 38%

    For the same period property taxes levied went up over 73%.

    Now Bill I know it bugs you when a UGA guy talks math, but I do know that is a property tax increase whether you graduated from Tech, Harvard, Yale, UGA or GSU (both of them).

    Anyway, one off comment, and I am stealing it, maybe even from here, but it was so good. With the World Cup tomorrow being between Italy & France, between all the switching sides and giving up how will they ever finish the match?

  16. rtwingmom says:

    So Gabriel, Did Gainesville’s taxes go up 38%, 50% or 73%?
    That is some messed up math to get all those answers.

  17. GabrielSterling says:

    Right Wing Mom:

    This is the shell game that local Georgia politicians have played for years. That is the point. It is intended to be confusing so they can try to hide from the fact that they raise taxes.

    The taxes levied by the City of Gainesville went up 73% between 2000 and 2006. That is a black and white indisputable number that the City itself had to release.

    The math itself is pretty straight forward.

    Gainesville
    2000 taxes levied=$5,476,496
    2006 taxes levied=$9,496,750

    The taxes levied INCREASED $4,020,254
    The taxes levied percentage increase is 73.4%

    There is not an intevening year where Gainesville taxes levied decreased.

    I hope this helps to slice through the Gordion Knot of property taxes.

    BTW where did I ever say anything about 50% in my post?

  18. rtwingmom says:

    Gabriel,
    The 50% was the first number Lee Hawkins came up with.
    In gainesville the property value increased by over a Billion dollars. That increase includes land development, new homes, inflation, and so on. So, ofcourse the amount of money that came in went up. But the amount of services need went up to b/c of all the new places.
    If you compare the % of taxes collected to the property value, the % increase is .06%.
    So, as you can see you can get any number you want.

  19. jsm says:

    Todd,

    “I spoke face to face with another Hawkins Campaign Committee member who admitted to skewing the facts on an election committee.”

    Who? I’m sure Lee would like to know.

    “There seems to be a willingness from you guys to attack your opponent with character damaging BS and a willingness to continue a negative campaign even after you’ve agreed not to.”
    (Untrue – no character damaging BS and no agreement not to mention the opponent)

    “Seemingly, you attack, then call your opponent a ‘negative campaigner’ when he reveals the truth to debunk your attack.”
    (Untrue – can’t debunk the truth of his own record)

    rtwingmom,
    50% is a round number that was used, which happens to be far less than the actual total tax increases by definition of Georgia law. Actual documentation from the local legal organ (Gainesville Times) was referenced. Furthermore, regarding the totally separate values in today’s mailer [see Gabriel’s post] you can’t just subtract services from a tax increase and call it a valid number. That’s where Bill’s comment about spending cuts comes in. The numbers are in black and white-there’s no denying them. You might be able to get any number YOU want by spinning them, but the raw numbers are in the record.

    Mark is slick, and he’s good at twisting the truth. Hawkins has faced his record and answered questions about it honestly. As he said at the forum in Gainesville, if you want to throw out all those who have switched parties to the GOP, you can toss Nathan Deal, Sonny Perdue, and Carl Rogers, to name a few.

    BTW, don’t forget that Lee Hawkins is endorsed by Georgia Right to Life. Mark’s not.

    Lee Hawkins is the conservative Republican in this race, and he’s honest about the record. Mark can’t take the heat, and it’s showing.

  20. Bill Simon says:

    Gabe,

    I really hate to stick a needle in your trial balloon, but, it needs to be done… (and why not by me?)

    I want to introduce you to the concept of an intervening variable. Ever heard of such a thing? No? Here’s an example:

    Last month, I went to the grocery store and paid a total of $14.00 in sales taxes. THIS month, I paid a total of $21.00 in sales taxes, a 50% increase in my taxes.

    Did my tax rate change between last month and this month? No, it didn’t. So, one might wonder why I paid more in taxes this month than last?

    Because of the intervening variable. The intervening variable in this case was that my total amount of goods purchased increased, and therefore, I had to pay MORE sales taxes on MORE goods.

    The same damn thing sticks a pin right in your “example,” Gabe. You state the following with regards to the City of Gainesville:

    Property Tax Digest (i.e., the total valuation of property) in Year 2000 was “X”.

    Property Tax Digest in Year 2006 increased by 36% over Year 2000

    Amount of taxes paid in that time period increased by $4,020,254, a 73.4% increase.

    YOU state there’s something amiss here because the two percentages are not the same.

    I say there is at least one intervening variable called the “rate of change” of different property values in the City. Not all home property valuations increase at the same rate and neither do commercial property valuations increase at the same rate.

    What if we found out that the bulk of that increase in dollars paid was due to commercial property that had been substantially added over 6 years? And, that the bulk of that “73.4% increase” came in dollars paid came from commercial property owners whose property values increased at a rate much greater than the 30-year old apartment buildings across from the city dump?

    Gabe, seriously, if you want to play the apple and the orange game with me, the apple in your case is the tax digest and the orange is the tax dollars collected. There is no relaible correlation measure that EVER says they should increase at the same rate. That’s preposterous to either A) think they should, or B) even want them to. More buildings and homes mean more people which means more infrastructure is required which means more money is required.

    Hey, let’s do in Gainesville like Shirley Franklin does in Atlanta and cut firefighter pay and firefighter resources. How often do fires occur anyway? They don’t need more money for that department in Gainesville. Arm every resident with 100 feet of garden hose and attached a spigot to every fire hydrant and people can put out their own fires….just as long as the amount of taxes collected doesn’t increase with a growing city is all that matters…

  21. Booray says:

    Gabe,

    This is Bravo Sierra crap that drives me nuts.

    Did the man vote to increase taxes or not? He says he did one time in his radio ads, and based on what I read here he never did it again.

    He damn sure didn’t vote to raise taxes 73% because he’d be run out of town on a rail. His ad notes (I assume correctly) he was re-elected twice without opposition.

    Your intimate knowledge of this mail piece says you had a hand in writing it. I hope your cute little mail piece for Hawkins is worth going to hell for, because it’s a lie.

  22. The Busdriver says:

    If it votes like a Democrat, and contributes like a Democrat, it’s a Democrat.

  23. rtwingmom says:

    Gabe must of had a hand in writing the mail piece. Who else would know how to spin it to come up with numbers like that!
    I can tell you I live in the city and my taxes did not go up! I go to the council meetings when they are discussing taxes to make sure they don’t go up.
    About assessments. I bought a house 6 years ago for $320,000, the assessment was $300,000. We remodeled. We told the city we would be spending about $60,000 on the project, we spent $120,000 but our assessment went to $360,000. They just added on our estimated project amount.
    They never asked what we spent nor did they come to reassess. Yes our tax amount was higher but the rate was the same. We chose to remodel the city did there job by raising our assessment (they could have gone higher).
    We are now remodling another house, which hundreds of families are doing in Gainesville. That is part of the resone tax assessments have changed so much here.

  24. GabrielSterling says:

    Again, this is the problem. The politicians intnd for this to be a confusing game where numbers are thrown around, in an attempt to make it understandable…

    Tax levies went up twice as fast as property values.

    Actually, for starters, Lee was stating that tax levies went up MORE than 50%. He is correct, and this is indisputable.

    In fact, tax levies are 73% more than when Mark took office.

    And in fact, the net property digest (which is the taxable value of property for the entire city) is up only 38%, or $900 million, according to the city. Not over one billion. RtWingMom, you said over a billion, not a huge point to some, but $50-100 million in value is big to some.

    Tax levies up 73%, tax values up 38%. Do the math. That means taxes went up twice as fast as values. And Musselwhite never voted against any of these tax increases.

    All of these are facts. The City of Gainesville released these numbers. They aren’t arguable.

    And Bill, so are you saying that tax increases are OK if they pay for more services? If so, that is an intellectually honest position. That’s not what Mark is saying. He says he “voted for lower taxes”. That is simply not a supportable statement. And Bill, in Gainesville, the tax rate has, in fact gone up over the same period of time.

    If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck… If tax increasers aren’t liberal, who is?

  25. rtwingmom says:

    Gabe,
    “This is the shell game that local Georgia politicians have played for years.” your quote
    You are the one playing the game right along side of Lee Hawkins.
    Look at the top line of the tax chart. In 2000 the real and personal property was 2,600,115,980 in 2006 it was 3,803,646,599. That is a difference of 1,203,530,619. I do believe that is 1.2 Billion!
    Now the Net Digest went from 2,381,085,380 in 2000 to 3,286,072,539 in 2006. the % is .06% higher.
    You are trying to ignore the fact that Gainesville has seen alot of growth in the last 6 years. The population has gone from 25,578 to 31,107 in 2005. That is 5,529 more people in five years so more homes, apartments and businesses have been built. When you have more people you need more services – police, fire, sanitation, water and sewer and so on. With all these variables don’t you think the city not only will have more money coming in but will also have more to pay out?

  26. jsm says:

    Funny no one wants to mention the thousands Lee has given to Republicans like Charlie Norwood, Carl Rogers, and Amos Amerson. These numbers far outweigh his tokens to Democrats.

  27. jsm says:

    No one is arguing whether Gainesville needed more services. The fact is that Mark has hidden from his record. If he had just faced it and told the truth, everyone would have moved on.

    I’d like to see where how you arrived at this .06% number.

  28. rtwingmom says:

    The only republicans Hawkins gave money to were either fellow dentist or local folks. The democrats were all over Ga. They include Roy Barnes (against Sonny), Max Cleland (against Chambliss), Lester Jackson (black caucus member from Savannah), Michele Henson (Dekalb), Cathy Cox for Governor, and yes he gave to Nathan Deal even when he was a democrat.

    As far as taxes go, you are only looking at one line to get you 73% when you need to take all factors into account.
    I was calculating the taxes collected compared to property value to get the actual % tax rate.
    Percentage wise the amount collected in 2000 was .23%.
    In 2006 in percentage when up to .29% that is a .06% increase in the actual tax rate.
    That is Less than 1/10th of a percent. It is not even worth mentioning.

  29. Mike Hassinger says:

    I checked around for State Senate seats contested in the Republican Primary. It was fairly early in the morning and I was only looking at websites, so it’s not as rigorously scientific as it could be, but you get what you pay for.

    SS 17: Crotts/Douglas – Crotts has no website, just a page that says “under construction.

  30. TSlaughter says:

    JSM,
    Please read this and start paying attention.

    [quote]
    “I spoke face to face with another Hawkins Campaign Committee member who admitted to skewing the facts on an election committee.”
    Who? I’m sure Lee would like to know.
    [/quote]

    Lee DOES know,… I told him. He received a lengthy eMail from me addressed to the committee member, Hawkins and Musselwhite. I sent the eMail to Hawkins’ BellSouth eMail account (Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 23:48:34 -0400)

    [quote]
    “There seems to be a willingness from you guys to attack your opponent with character damaging BS and a willingness to continue a negative campaign even after you’ve agreed not to.”
    (Untrue – no character damaging BS and no agreement not to mention the opponent)
    [/quote]

    As I explained to one of Lee’s sons last evening, a candidate is responsible for the things his “hand selected” campaign committee does and says about the opponent with regard to an election.

    Read this post from Tommy’s “Political-Island” blog, which is linked from his login name:
    “… Take for instance this campaign I am currently working on, one of the opponents to the campaign is out telling the public how Republican he is and how much he hates the situation our area is in regarding illegal immigration. … Now on to the illegal immigration topic. This guy says out of one side of his mouth that we need to stop the illegal immigration invasion and out of the other side of his mouth he says, hey Paco where’s my rent money. You see he is a slum lord in our town and rent heavily to illegals. By the way the last murder in this town, happened at one of his apartment complexes.”

    This is a flat out lie.
    And it may be insignificant, but Musselwhite owns just one complex.

    Yesterday afternoon Hawkins received notice from Musselwhite about a press release that will be released to the public if Hawkins does not respond appropriately.

    A portion of it reads:
    “”I run an apartment and rental business like hundreds of other businessmen around Atlanta,” said Musselwhite. “I ask for more residency documentation than required by state or federal law, and any of my renters accused of breaking the law are turned over to the Gang or Drug Task Force I helped support as Mayor of Gainesville.”

    “But the worst part is Hawkins’ exploiting the murder of an illegal killed on my property in May,” said Musselwhite. “I did not rent to that person, and he was trespassing at the time of his death. But the fact Hawkins would exploit such a tragedy – whether the victim was legal or illegal – shows how truly desperate Hawkins is to win office.”

    “I demand that Lee Hawkins repudiate this trash attack and fire Tommy Sandoval immediately,” said Musselwhite. “Hall County has had enough of this gutter campaigning.””

    There it is ladies and gentlemen.

    Are we to believe that Hawkins in not responsible, knowing this is happening and has for weeks.

    When an upper tier Committee member, who’s life totally surrounds this election, focuses on the distribution of fabrications against the opponent, there should be some accountability.

    [quote]
    “Seemingly, you attack, then call your opponent a ‘negative campaigner’ when he reveals the truth to debunk your attack.”
    (Untrue – can’t debunk the truth of his own record)
    [/quote]

    Again, this is getting really old. (Opinion)

    [quote]
    As he (Hawkins) said at the forum in Gainesville, if you want to throw out all those who have switched parties to the GOP, you can toss Nathan Deal, Sonny Perdue, and Carl Rogers, to name a few.
    [/quote]

    These men were already serving in office. They didn’t switch parties in an effort to get elected.

    [quote]
    BTW, don’t forget that Lee Hawkins is endorsed by Georgia Right to Life. Mark’s not.
    [/quote]

    This is an appropriate comment to this thread. (Smart Ass Opinion)

    Musselwhite is on the record for stating his position. He is a Pro-Lifer with the three exception rule… the same as GW Bush.

  31. TSlaughter says:

    My comments about the press release were posted prior to the release being posted on PeachPundit. Thanks to the one that uploaded it to the site.

  32. jsm says:

    rtwingmom,

    You need to return to high school math. The percentages you’re talking about are essentially the millage rates divided by 1,000. The millage rate in 2000 was 2.30. In 2006, it is 2.89. That is a total millage rate increase of 0.59. Now the percent difference is found this way: 2.89/2.30 = 1.26, meaning the 2006 millage rate is 126% of the 2000 millage rate. Therefore, the rate of increase for the millage over the period is 26%.

    Your .06% value is a raw subtraction of .00289 – .00230, which equals .0006. That’s the mere difference of the two numbers, not the percentage difference.

    So, from the record, from 2000 to 2006:
    The net digest increased 38% (2.38b to 3.29b)
    The millage rate increased 26% (2.30 to 2.89)
    The net taxes levied increased 73% (5.48m to 9.50m)

    Your lack of understanding of basic math and rates of change helps me understand the funky math coming from the Musselwhite camp.

    Todd,

    I’m paying very good attention, and I know what I’m talking about.

    I don’t know whether anyone from the campaign committee said anything about these numbers, but they’re in the record. If someone in the committee didn’t understand them, then it was their mistake.

    Regarding Tommy’s blog: How many voters read that? Attacks are put out to the media or in a mailer, not on some unknown blog or even on this website, which I understand is primarily visited by political junkies.

    I, at the request of Lee Hawkins, asked Peach Pundit to remove Tommy’s post in this thread via the Tip Line. It hasn’t yet been done, and I don’t know if it will. Lee did not authorize what was posted, and he specifically asked that this information not be disseminated. Lee is personally dealing with Tommy about this issue.

    If Mark wants to go public with his press release and air his dirty laundry, that’s his decision. We have not taken this info to the media or to the general public. Mark will be hurting himself, because if this goes public, people will want to know more about his rental property.

    BTW, it’s a lie to say in the release that Tommy was trying to “disguise his identity.” Most people on this site know who he is–it’s no secret. He’s also still calling documents pulled directly from the Gainesville times “fake documents.” Another lie.

    Lee Hawkins has done more for the people of Georgia over the last two decades than Musselwhite has dreamed of. If you want to call him a lobbyist for fighting for your rights, go ahead. Just don’t spread lies about him serving his own interests at the capitol. It’s not true.

    I’ve heard numerous testimonies from friends of mine around Gainesville who talk about how friendly and personal Lee Hawkins is compared to Musselwhite. One in particular said Lee came by his office and met all the employees, taking time to shake their hands. All Musselwhite did was meet with the owner and beg for money. He could have cared less about the employees. If Musselwhite twists and lies his way to a victory, the people of district 49 can forget having principled representation in Atlanta. Remember Stacey Reece, the “colleague” of the lobbyists? Birds of a feather…

  33. Bill Simon says:

    JSM

    You certainly have lots to offer in terms of an opinion on Hawkins and Musselwhite. But, who are you? What do your initials stand for?

  34. jsm says:

    I am Joshua Morris. I’ve lived in Hall County for about six and a half years, and have been an active member of the Hall GOP and/or Hall County Young Republicans since 2001. I was Hall GOP PR chairman in 2003-2004 and Hall YR chairman in 2004. I’ve worked in three election cycles now in Hall County, and I have grown very passionate about my local and statewide representation.

    BTW, I get email from the Political Vine, and I have heard about you from different sources. I do look forward to meeting you sometime.

  35. rtwingmom says:

    Joshua,
    You forgot the part about being on Lee’s campaign.
    My math is not wrong. I may have gone to government schools but you still won’t fool me with your play with words and numbers.
    I was calculating the taxes collected compared to property value to get the actual % tax rate.
    Percentage wise the amount collected in 2000 was .23%.
    In 2006 in percentage when up to .29% that is a .06% increase in the actual tax rate.

    I got the same numbers as you. Taxes went up 25% not the 5o% or 73% your crew is trying to claim. The amount of money that came in through property taxes was up 73% but not due to a millage rate increase alone but greatly due to property appreciation.
    You just don’t like the fact that my number is such a small number after all, you are in Lee’s camp and this is all you’ve got.

  36. jsm says:

    rtwingmom,

    You have just demonstrated your total math ineptitude to everyone on this site. You don’t have a clue.

  37. Booray says:

    Questions:

    1. How many tax increases did Musselwhite vote for?

    2. How many times did Musselwhite vote against rollbacks mandated by state law?

    Those are the only two things an elected official can do, period. Anything else is cheap-shot BS cooked up for crap political reasons.

  38. jsm says:

    I wrote in my first post in this thread that I am an unpaid volunteer for Hawkins. I’m not part of the campaign committee. I work a full time job in an engineering firm in Duluth.

    Since we’re asking…

    rtwingmom,

    Tell us who you are. I suspect Kellie Weeks or Mark’s wife.

  39. Nate says:

    Wow, not sure where to start after all the above. I will say this, I have been doing work for the Hawkins campaign and I have lived in Gainesville for the past twenty years. I also know a little about property taxes as it has been an important part of my studies for grad school which I am just finishing up. I can tell you flat out that the numbers put out by the Hawkins campaign are factual and true. The charts and numbers were copied and pasted strait from Gainesville city records. There was no altering or changing of any kind. Look the facts up for your self and ignore campaign spin.
    Mark Musselwhite started this whole mess when he attacked the Georgia Right to Life after he failed to get their endorsement. It has gone down hill from there. Voters want substance, the Hawkins campaign has not posted bullet point positions, but fully written out plans for property tax reform and “the Georgia Fairtax

  40. rtwingmom says:

    JSM,
    You are about the rudest person, next to Tommy on that campaign!
    Here is a quote from Tommy’s world at political-island.blospot.com . It somes up how this camp is being run.
    “I think I now have a plan to get what I need in order to tell the people of the area what is really going on. Sometimes it is just the way you word something.”
    Sometimes it is just the way you word someing. Hmmm
    Interesting, just like your quote.
    “3 times he voted for budgets including millage rates that legally constituted tax increases.”
    He voted for a budget, not a tax increase. That is his job. Taxes may have gone up slightly due to assessment and development but as I stated before that has always been the case. Mark had nothing to do with that.
    Are you trying to get the entire city council against Lee?
    I think you already have.

    With the math you are insulting me on. I took the Net taxes levied / Net Digest.
    But hey, your way shows a 73% increase on revenue so ofcouse you’ll use it.

    As far as the 2 ladies you mentioned. They are both hard workers and they do more volunteer work around this town than Lee, his wife, the campaign committee, and all 3 of you Young Republicans put together. But I am a friend so I am a little bias. I would sign my name but after reading Tommy’s blog I am worried he is on the edge of a major mental break down (JSM you may want to take something before you reach T’s level)so I will pass for now.

  41. rtwingmom says:

    One more thing.
    Nate, “this whole mess started when he attacked the Georgia Right to Life after he failed to get their endorsement.”
    That is once again untrue. It started when your boy Tommy started calling around town and snooping around Mark’s property trying to get dirt on Mark. Tommy should have never gone to Mark’s apartment to talk to the tenants and employees there. That is just wrong.
    Mark did not attack Ga Right to Life. He merely pointed out that he believed in the 3 Exemption rule. After all, they indorsed Bush and he belives in the 3 exemptions too.
    What I don’t understand is how a life long Democrat can have such a strong stance on abortion. If Lee truely believed in the 1 exemption rule how could he give money to so many liberal democrats?
    He is just doing what ever it takes.

  42. TSlaughter says:

    Booray’s Questions:

    1. How many tax increases did Musselwhite vote for?

    2. How many times did Musselwhite vote against rollbacks mandated by state law?

    Well, it’s been a long night. JSM, thanks for the link, I had been in the archives previously, but others possibly had not.

    The Answers:

    1. One tax increase for 17 fireman, 9 policeman and 2 code enforcement officers. This was shortly after 9/11, and the citizens of Gainesville approved the increase.

    2. Gainesville City Council rolled back the millage each time mandated, which would be 4 times in the 5 years Musselwhite was there.

  43. jsm says:

    So now we go from the issues to personal insults–no surprise.

    rtwingmom, it’s frustrating when you mischaracterize a number and don’t understand a clear explanation of the math. Take my numbers and yours to a local high school math teacher and see who is right. You insulted yourself. That’s the last I will say on that.

    If the Gainesville City Council is against Lee because of their tax digest, then so be it. He only sent out public information. Any concerned citizen could have figured this out for himself, and I’m sure some did. Lee has nothing against the Council; he just wants voters to know the truth.

    Tommy and I are two different people. He is my friend, and I have worked with him, but I have not defended him. I also have many friends that don’t like Tommy. Don’t try to characterize me with his words. I speak for myself.

    Whether you like me or not, I am sincere and honest. I can disagree with someone and still be a friend. In fact, I have friends who support Mark in this race. However, this race means a lot to me, and I firmly believe Lee Hawkins is the best candidate for the seat. For that reason, I will not allow him to be falsely accused without responding.

    Lee Hawkins is a conservative Republican and the right man for Senate District 49.

  44. jsm says:

    Freedom of speech allows anyone to go anywhere and ask any questions they want. The fact that you say Tommy was wrong to ask questions tells me Mark has something to hide.

    From the Gainesville Times, 6/15/06:
    “‘I am pro-life,’ Mark Musselwhite said at a news conference. ‘But because I would not give in to Georgia Right-to-Life’s demand to ban abortion in the few cases of rape and incest, I am labeled the same as pro-choice politicians like John Kerry.'”

    That doesn’t sound to me like a comment supportive of GRTL.

    The entire article is here:
    http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20060615/localnews/103252.shtml

  45. Bill Simon says:

    “GRTL” stands for Georgia Right To Lie, Josh. Support them? Screw them and their absurd stances on whether a 14-year-old who has been raped by her brother can terminate her pregnancy.

    The GRTL is a sham operation, designed to give some nutcases a job.

  46. JayDubya says:

    I think Tommy should stick to stealing yard signs out of supporters’ yards. And a piece of simple advice: don’t put your candidate’s sign in the right of way nearby where you stole the opponent’s sign! Idiot!

  47. rtwingmom says:

    Josh,
    You are the one that started with the insults. Go to your first post to me. Just like the campaign, you try to turn things around.
    Lee is no conservative. If you want to get your facts straight, Kellie was the one that called Lee a Democrat and a lobbyist – not Mark. If you have tried to pull up dirt on her, you should know she has written a number of letters to the editor over the years. The one about Lee was not the first. So saying Mark called Lee a democrat first is another lie.
    BTW, I am surprized you would know Kellie’s name but not Mark’s wifes. Nether of them can name any of you.

  48. jsm says:

    rtwingmom,
    I did not insult you, only commented on your numbers. Stop making stuff up. Also, Mark sent out a MAILER calling Hawkins a Democrat lobbyist–I never said first. So who is lying? This is getting petty.

    BTW, Kellie distributed a letter at the Republican forum. Lots of people know her name in reference to Mark.

  49. jsm says:

    I really don’t know much about the internals of GRTL, Bill. I’m just solidly against abortion in all cases personally. You and I see things a little differently on that.

  50. rtwingmom says:

    Josh,
    You don’t call “You need to return to high school math” or “You have just demonstrated your total math ineptitude to everyone on this site. You don’t have a clue.”or “You have just demonstrated your total math ineptitude to everyone on this site. You don’t have a clue.”
    an insult? That is petty and low.
    Who is making stuff up? you are!

  51. jsm says:

    Even though that’s not the “first post” you referred to, it’s true! I apologize if my way of stating it is offensive to you, but I stated the truth.

  52. jsm says:

    You know better than that, Bill. I just don’t believe that God creates any life He doesn’t have purpose for.

  53. TSlaughter says:

    [quote]
    I just don’t believe that God creates any life He doesn’t have purpose for.
    [/quote]
    JSM,
    I’m just trying to understand something here. You’re saying GOD arranged for the incestuous pregnancy of a 14 year old girl?

  54. jsm says:

    No. I’m not saying that. But I believe that God alone creates life, no matter the circumstances.

    I know from another discussion thread that there are those that disagree with me about this, but I feel like an abortion can add guilt to a girl’s life on top of the horror caused by an incestual rape or other sexual crime. I believe adoption is a better option in these cases.

  55. amazed says:

    I’ve been following this blog and can’t understand the hate filled rhetoric that appears to divide the so called “conservatives” that post. I have trouble understanding Republicans that try to skew math to pander to the lowest common denominator (no pun intended).

    Now, the millage rate increase from 2.3 or 2.31, depending on which you use, to 2.89 is an increase of roughly 25% over the six year period resulting in revenue collection that results in 73% more revenues due to property level increases in excess of $900 million, not a tax increase of 73%. I think attacking someone as being “non-conservative

  56. jsm says:

    Some of the most conservative business leaders in Gainesville support Hawkins’ candidacy and even encouraged him to run. They’re not going to put their reputation behind a RINO. This is the only line you guys have, and THAT is what’s getting old.

    I don’t remember anyone saying there was a 73% tax increase. Why do I have to keep correcting people about the record?

  57. TSlaughter says:

    JSM,

    Based on your previous post, I need to make sure I’m not posting an untruth because I know you’ll call me on it.

    [quote]
    Some of the most conservative business leaders in Gainesville support Hawkins’ candidacy and even encouraged him to run.
    [/quote]

    Last summer, this community was looking for anybody that would run against Stacey Reece. (True) I applaud these conservative business leaders’ commitment to Mr. Hawkins by continuing their public support. It speaks highly of their character. (Opinion)

    There are many more conservative business leaders in Gainesville that support Musselwhite’s candidacy and encouraged him to run also. (True)

    [quote]
    I don’t remember anyone saying there was a 73% tax increase. Why do I have to keep correcting people about the record?
    [/quote]

    Let’s see,… if my memory serves me correctly,…
    Oh, wait! I just need to scroll towards the top…

    [quote]
    I am an unpaid volunteer for Hawkins.
    [/quote]

    And…

    [quote]
    You will see on a mailer in your mailbox today that there has been no skewing of the facts,…
    [/quote]

    You must suffer from short term memory loss. (Opinion) I have the mailer you referenced in this thread. It implies a 73% tax increase. (True)

    [quote]
    rtwingmom,
    Tell us who you are. I suspect … Mark’s wife.
    [/quote]

    I can tell you without an ounce of doubt that neither Mr. nor Mrs. Musselwhite are posting on this thread. (FACT)

  58. TSlaughter says:

    Correction:
    I can tell you without an ounce of doubt that neither Mr. nor Mrs. Musselwhite are posting on this thread. (True)

    Neither Mr. nor Mrs. Musselwhite are posting on this thread. (FACT)

  59. jsm says:

    It “implies” a 73% tax increase? No one SAID 73% tax increase.

    I agree that there are business leaders behind Musselwhite’s candidacy. However, that doesn’t change the fact that those behind Hawkins would not support a RINO. In fact, Martin Ellard, a Republican to the bone, is speaking for Hawkins in radio ads today.

  60. TSlaughter says:

    [quote]
    Martin Ellard is speaking for Hawkins in radio ads today.”
    [/quote]

    Basically, it says, “If he can fix a tooth, he can fix the Senate”

    PLEASE !!! (Opinion)

  61. TSlaughter says:

    I was waiting to see if someone else wanted some of this action.

    [quote]
    It “implies

  62. rtwingmom says:

    You are using Clintonesse Josh.
    Instead of the meaning of “IS”
    You’ve got the meaning of “INCREASE”

  63. rtwingmom says:

    One last thing – Martin Ellard can’t stand the fact that he lost to Mark before. Now he will have Lee to sulk with.

  64. TSlaughter says:

    [quote]
    Thanks for the chuckle.
    [/quote]

    JSM,

    Surely you, an unpaid volunteer for Hawkins, recognize you’re admitting the Hawkins campaign committee is deliberately misleading the public. Yes?

    You should feel ashamed for being a part of something so potentially damaging to our community.

    With whatever influence you may have with the campaign committee, you should explain to them that the citizens of Senate 49 want to know what solutions your candidate has for the issues that affect our communities and our state,… not some BS about the opponent designed to confuse the voter.

    Stop drinking the Kool-Aid,…
    go back to the beginning of this thread…
    (scroll up… that ^ direction)
    and carefully reread what’s been discussed.

    This race is not about who we like or dislike based on how nice they are or the color their hair.

    This campaign has proven one candidate has ideas and solutions with an ability to communicate those thoughts logically and with a clear vision, while the other (I know there are 3, but this thread has focused on only 2) has nothing but negative spin and fabrications… which proves he has few or no ideas or solutions.

    Senate 49 is at a pivotal time in it’s history, and we need strong, experienced leadership in Atlanta.

    Whether you like the guy or not,…
    Musselwhite is a lifetime Republican…
    posses strong leadership skills…
    has experience…
    knows how to complete mathematical equations…
    and is the right man…
    at the right time…
    for Senate District 49.

  65. jsm says:

    Todd,

    You have yet to prove any “fabrication” from the Hawkins campaign, and you should feel ashamed for pushing your friend Musselwhite. What is amazing is that you don’t give up, but rather choose to go down in the quicksand with him. No matter how many times you post a line of crap, it doesn’t become true. He pulled his radio attack ad, because he finally figured out that it was incorrect and that our documentation is real and factual! I look forward to seeing what factcheck.org has to say about the ads Martha sent to them. You still can’t deny that nowhere is a 73% tax increase stated.

    I have learned that Musselwhite is someone who will say whatever is necessary to get elected. How often did he tout his “Republican credentials” in those City Council races? Once he realized that Hawkins’ tax plan works, all of a sudden he’s saying the same thing. Come on, people. Wake up!

    You’ve yet to prove me wrong about Lee Hawkins, but I’m sure you’ll keep trying. BTW, I found out today who you were talking to about “skewing facts.” What does Tom Oliver’s race have to do with this? More smoke and mirrors.

    I’m amazed at the lengths you and RWM will go to in an effort twist the facts of this race and keep posting untrue and uneducated statements.

    Bill,
    You should rethink that last post.

  66. Bill Simon says:

    Josh,

    Personally, I don’t know Musselwhite, you, or Todd Slaughter. BUT, I do know Tommy Sandoval, and while he thinks he has me fooled about his “change of heart”since his support of Maria Strollo back in 2002 (along with all of his looney tune claims in that race), he doesn’t.

    So, whenever Sandvoval speaks, and I get input from other people in Hall County whom I DO personally know (and, whose opinion I respect) about the BS he is speaking about, I take the side that he is not on.

  67. jsm says:

    I hope you’ll take a broader look at this campaign. Look at the facts I have put forth here. You can see I have been careful to be honest in everything I have stated. I have checked the record, read and re-read the mailers, etc., so that I can stand behind my words.

    I’ll stay out of your differences with Tommy. He has nothing to do with whether or not I support Hawkins. Please don’t let your differences with him harm your view of a good man. I hope you’ll get to know Lee Hawkins sometime. He’s sincere, thoughtful, and genuinely concerned about issues facing this district.

    Too many people have told me the exact opposite about Musselwhite.

  68. TSlaughter says:

    [quote]
    … view of a good man. … He (Lee)’s sincere, thoughtful, and genuinely concerned about issues facing this district.
    [/quote]

    Josh,

    Bull’s Eye. This is a very true statement. Lee posses all of these good qualities, and many more qualities of a fine, caring, and generous man. One of his sons that I’ve met in recent weeks, and have had the pleasure of talking with and getting to know better is a gentleman and an extension of his father. Both of these men are men to be proud of and admire, no doubt.

    [quote]
    Too many people have told me the exact opposite about Musselwhite.
    [/quote]

    To imply that Mark isn’t “sincere, thoughtful, and genuinely concerned” is,… well, an inaccurate assumption.

    Have you talked to Mark to discuss any of his thoughts or solutions?

    Have you recognized all the good he has done in our community with regard to bringing the City Council and County Commission together to work more cohesively? (Not single handed. A commissioner has worked equally as hard, and we should be extremely delighted with their tireless efforts.)

    Have you recognized how hard Mark has worked as a public servant in our community, and that he has done so as though it were his only full-time job?

    Maybe you should get out more.

  69. rtwingmom says:

    Josh I like your line “I have learned that Musselwhite is someone who will say whatever is necessary to get elected” and “You can see I have been careful to be honest in everything I have stated.”
    Who joined the GOP days after qualifing for the race?
    That would be Lee.
    Who joined the Chamber months after qualifing for the race, even though he had been in business for 28 years?
    That would be Lee.
    Who Gave money to both Sonny and Casey recently(but never before) to show he has given more to the GOP than tha Dems?
    That would be Lee.

    Who will do what ever it necessary to get elected?
    That would be Lee.

    Lee has done everything After the Fact. His camp is trying to make he into some one he is not. If you say those things don’t matter then, why do them?

    Your other quote “You can see I have been careful to be honest in everything I have stated.”
    Yes they may be “true” but you are trying to imply something else and that is one of those low liberial tactics.

  70. jsm says:

    How many Republicans are there in Hall County? Thousands.
    How many are members of the Hall GOP? not sure. probably 150 or fewer.

    Being a member of the local party does not make anyone more Republican than the other. What makes someone a Republican is what he believes and what he does.

    Who is the better politician in this race? Mark Musselwhite
    Who is the person who has done more for the people of Georgia and will take his experience to the capitol to enact real solutions for District 49? Lee Hawkins

    Mark has not come around me since the Forces Run event in May. What I have seen and heard from him is ads attacking the truth coming from his opponent and angry, threatening phone calls to Lee’s campaign manager. I’ve also seen some of his business associates and the company he chooses, some of which I believe are not interested in the good of our community nor share the values of our community.

    You cannot walk around the truth. Accusing Lee Hawkins or me of implying something is only a diversion from the truth that is right before your eyes.

    Deal with the facts. Lee Hawkins is the best man to represent Senate District 49.

  71. jsm says:

    rtwingmom,

    Re-read Todd’s post from July 10th at 2:00pm and quit making accusations when you don’t know what you’re talking about. (hint: look for the word “implies.”)

    I’m not concerned about your other points. I covered what’s important.

  72. rtwingmom says:

    Josh.
    “I’m not concerned about your other points. I covered what’s important.”

    That is because you can’t dispute the facts.

  73. jsm says:

    Alright, Bill. You’re generalizing my statement. In my view, the particular facts she is referring to don’t matter to this race.

  74. rtwingmom says:

    I sure am glad Mark’s camp isn’t having to change who he is to get him elected.

    You may need to take the “Honesty” line out of Lee’s mailer.

  75. amazed says:

    Bill, I have to say I agree, and with that, the hot air could certainly create some good energy as well.

    Josh, no offense, but I think you need a date…perhaps a woman could help alleviate some of that frustration that seems to plague your posts…there’s a chasm between being passionate about a cause/candidate and spewing maniacal rhetoric.

  76. rtwingmom says:

    Josh, You being the math wiz that you are, maybe you can figure this one out. This is from Accessnorthga –

    Lee Hawkins leads in contributions in the Senate race, with $218,000 ($100,000 of that from his own pocket), and in spending – around $90,000. Mark Musselwhite reports taking in $111,000 (including $17,000 of his own money) and spending around $88,000.

    How could Mark and Lee have spent the same amount?
    Lee has purchased many many many more signs.
    Lee has saturated the radio and TV with ads.
    He has more mailer.
    He has billboards.
    There is no way they have spent the same amount.
    I would like to shop were Lee shops. He gets some good deals.

  77. TSlaughter says:

    JSM,

    [quote]
    I’ve also seen some of his business associates and the company he (Musselwhite) chooses, some of which I believe are not interested in the good of our community nor share the values of our community.
    [/quote]

    That one is probably going to haunt you.

    [quote]
    He (Hawkins)’s sincere, thoughtful, and genuinely concerned about issues facing this district.

    Too many people have told me the exact opposite about Musselwhite.
    [/quote]

    Okay, if a man were not “sincere, thoughtful, and genuinely concerned”, nor “interested in the good of our community nor share the values of our community”…
    would he invest his time and energy into these local projects?

    Boys Scouts

    Boys and Girls Club

    Greater Hall County Chamber of Commerce

    Leadership Hall County

    Leadership Georgia 2004

    Interactive Neighborhood for Kids (INK)

    March of Dimes

    United Way

    Gainesville Ballet

    GHS Athletic and Booster Club

    Substitute Teacher @ Gainesville Middle School

    Volunteer @ Enota Elementary
    Multiple Intelligence Hall of Fame

    Mayor of the Day Program for School Kids

    Participant in Elementary School Reading Groups

    Provided Fire Education and Police K-9 Education
    to local schools

    School Uniform Research Committee

    Gainesville State College

    Brenau University

    Gainesville Jaycees

    Gainesville Rotary

    Kiwanis Key Club Speaker

    Little League and Recreation Baseball League

    2005 Recipient of Georgia Statewide Park and Recreation Society “Volunteer of the Year” Award

    Deacon at First Baptist Church of Gainesville

    So, again, JSM, to believe Mark is NOT sincere, thoughtful, and genuinely concerned about issues facing this district based on what you’ve heard is an inaccurate assumption,…
    and to assert that he is NOT interested in the good of our community nor share the values of our community indicates to me that you’re an ostrich with your head in the sand.

    Now,…
    On to an area of heartfelt concern…

    To those who believe in and embrace the power of prayer…
    we understand that Lee is suffering with an illness.
    (not a cold or the flu or anything like that)

    I sincerely hope Lee recovers quickly and completely.

    Godspeed.

  78. rtwingmom says:

    PITCH, SWING, HIT……
    I believe that one is out of the park, folks!
    Go Todd Go Todd Go Todd

  79. jsm says:

    Todd,

    I’d put 12 years at the capitol fighting for your rights as a medical patient up against that list. I won’t deny that Mark’s done good things in this community. It must be nice to have all the free time to do all those things. I’m just convinced from what I’ve seen of him one-on-one that he’s interested in Mark. That’s my opinion, as you like to point out, and you have your opinion. I’ll agree to disagree with you.

    rtwingmom,

    I’m thinking Mark’s billboards on 985 probably could help explain the similarity in overal spending. Those things are really expensive. Hawkins talked about doing those, but his advisors decided to go a different direction.

  80. rtwingmom says:

    quote
    “I’m just convinced from what I’ve seen of him one-on-one that he’s interested in Mark.”

    Josh, maybe one day you will have a chance to work on a board or project with Mark. I bet you’d be surprized to find out what he is really like. He is not all about himself. Some people may take his strong work ethic the wrong way. The fact that he is self employeed, has given him the flexibility to do a lot of volunteer work, but don’t think he has “all the free time” he ends up working late alot of days b/c of the different projects. He just likes to work , network, and TALK. I have always joked that when he and Martha Z. get together, who would out talk the other? He is friendly and alot of fun to be around plus he has a great wife and family.

    I have not made any low blows on Lee personally. He seems like a very nice man and I pray he will be recover from his illness.
    What I have notice, the little I have seen him (so I maybe wrong) is he is a bit shy and quiet. That does not make him a bad person but this is politics and he seems uninterested.

    Bill – We like to feed our K-9’s better than that.

  81. jsm says:

    rtwingmom,

    Maybe I will be able to work with Mark in the future. You and Todd obviously know him better than I do. One thing he and I share is the affinity for talking. It will be very interesting to see what we all do once this race is over.

    BTW, are you someone that I have seen or talked to at a conservative forum?

  82. rtwingmom says:

    “BTW, are you someone that I have seen or talked to at a conservative forum?”

    No, I have no idea who you are.
    But I am sure we will meet sometime.

  83. TSlaughter says:

    I was raised in a family with a father that knew only how to work hard, and I mean hard work.

    That stated, I will add,… without reservation and thinking thoroughly, that to my knowledge, I have never known anyone that worked harder and with more determination than Mark Musselwhite.

    I am confident there are physically-harder working men and women in this community, but I do not know of anyone with the mental and physical grit Musselwhite posses.

  84. rtwingmom says:

    Josh I would like to ask you something about an earlier post. quote
    “I’ve also seen some of his business associates and the company he chooses, some of which I believe are not interested in the good of our community nor share the values of our community.”

    What is wrong with the “company he chooses”? My husband and I are part of that company, so is Todd. All his close friends are not only good people, they do alot for this community. You should stop making broad judgements.

    BTW, Lee has Ed Martin in his camp and have you seen the kind of places he owns? If he buys a place near you, you can bet your property value will drop instantly! Do you think he is shares the values of our community?

  85. buzzbrockway says:

    When I first posted it, I thought it might get one or two comments – max. I just thought it was interesting that a local candidate released polling numbers, but then again, I am a rabble-rouser.

  86. Demonbeck says:

    Drats, foiled again. Curse you Buzz Brockway!

    At some point after the primary, I would love to see a PeachPundit awards. We can nominate posters for different awards (funniest, most likely to go on a kill-crazy rampage, most poignant, etc.) I would have to nominate you for best Superhero Name.

  87. Demonbeck says:

    I don’t see why not.

    I would have to nominate Erick Erickson for best Super Villain Name. Not because he’s evil, just because I think it would make a great name – especially if you add a Von in there – which I will be doing from now on.

  88. buzzbrockway says:

    jsm,

    100k is nothing. We had a Senate race is Gwinnett a few years ago where the winner spent over $1 million and the 2nd place finisher (or if you prefer, first loser), spend about $600k, IIRC.

  89. rtwingmom says:

    Josh, Who put you back in the play pin?
    I thought you may have gotten into trouble.
    Nice AD for Lee on Martha’s show. She sounded a bit irritated by it.

    I saw the word some but I know ALL the people he hangs out with. That was my point.

    Buzz – Who spent that much in Gwinnett? That is just insane. Up here Lee Hawkins just through in $100,000 of his own money because no one would give it to him.

  90. jsm says:

    RWM, I came into my “play pin” after going to the dentist this morning. It’s pretty nice with a desk, computer, big rolls of drawings that you wouldn’t understand, and a view of PIB out the window. I’ve also been working in VBS at my church all week, some of that community work I don’t know anything about.

    Have you been to see a high school math teacher, yet?

  91. Bill Simon says:

    Man! The spiders are spinning some really intricate webs as this blog thread muscles-on…they’ve spun so much there are cobwebs way-up in the ceiling they deserted…no wonder there is no time to hear crickets, they are all being captured by the spiders!

    And, look, there’s one that says “SOME PIG”…wow, Charlotte lives on…

  92. rtwingmom says:

    Josh
    No need to be an ass. The play pin comment was about all of us, not just you.You need to lighten up. I figured when you did not respond yesterday some one told you to stop writting.
    I could care less about your view of a street. I don’t have to work b/c my husband makes alot of money so I can stay home with my kids and bother you!
    BTW, I did not need to go to my math teacher. Amazed already pointed out your your problem.
    “I have trouble understanding Republicans that try to skew math to pander to the lowest common denominator” Amazed
    BTW he has two, count them, two Masters in Economics.
    He knows you are trying to imply one thing but saying another.

  93. SugarHillDad says:

    RWM Your comment that, “Up here Lee Hawkins just through in $100,000 of his own money because no one would give it to him.” is crazy. You must not have read the article. It clearly says Hawkins raised the most money (more than Musselwhite.) It also says that the prof thinks it is a sign he is commited. At least Hawkins did not violate ethics rules by taking to much money from folks. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so do not go saying he did not understand. Unless he can not read or does not have a phone where he can call and ask. If these are the case he does not deserve to be elected.

    I was also currious to see such an honorable and Conservative US House Rep like Norwood weigh in.

    Lastly I am just glad that weasel Stacey is out of office. I bet he is sad no special session was called on the Gay Marriage thing. I am sure he misses the microphones and video cameras.

  94. jsm says:

    Thanks, Bill. 🙂

    RWM,
    My apologies about the “Who put you back in the play pen” response. I must have somehow taken your comment the wrong way. 😉

    I think my Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering (w/ minor in math) can handle the numbers okay. Amazed never refuted my post that showed the correct math. Since we’re on that, I’ll pull some of those cobb webs down that Bill referred to:

    From Gainesville City records, from 2000 to 2006:
    The net digest increased 38% (2.38b to 3.29b)
    The millage rate increased 26% (2.30 to 2.89)
    The net taxes levied increased 73% (5.48m to 9.50m)

    Refute ’em. And remember, to get the percentage difference, you DIVIDE the difference by the original number.

  95. amazed says:

    Look at the big man on campus with a view of PIB & rolls of pictures only he can understand. You are truly the master of your domain…you must be one of those rich Republicans I hear about on TV.

    I’m not that fortunate…I have to sit in my house & work; that driving to the office & getting paid what other people say I’m worth doesn’t bode too well for me 🙂

    Oh, RWM – my 2 masters are in Finance & e-Business, not Economics…that’s just a hobby 😉

  96. Bill Simon says:

    Josh…

    I’m going to have to call you on your Mechanical Engineering Degree throw-down.

    Folks, everyone else just stand back…

    As a holder of a Mechanical Engineering degree myself, I merely urge Josh to go read my post earliier in this thread to Gabe:

    http://www.peachpundit.com/?p=1583#comment-18649

    In short, there is NO relevance between a tax base increasing and taxes increasing.

    Now, I’m ready to pull-out my Thermodynmaics book and Logarithm tables if it comes to that, Josh… 😉

  97. rtwingmom says:

    sugar dad – “dentist Lee Hawkins has amassed nearly $215,350 in funds, including a $100,000 personal loan to his campaign.” Gainesville times

    He raised $115,350 then he put in $100,000 of his own.
    BTW Mark raised almost the same amont in half the time.
    And Norwood is a fellow dentist.

    Josh I know the numbers you are speaking of, my point way back when was is you pick defferent numbers on that very page you can come up with one that favors one side.

  98. GabrielSterling says:

    I second Demon’s nomination.

    This thread should be shot and put out of its misery.

  99. rtwingmom says:

    Bill, I have tried to point out to Josh that the revenue went up and that could be due to development, not b/c of a tax increase. But he like to call names instead. oh well

    Demonbeck, I second that

  100. jsm says:

    Bill,

    I understand what you’re saying about the intervening variable. However, Hawkins is backed up by the legal definition of a tax increase, increased millage rate, and no action to offset higher assessments.

    I was actually pretty good in Thermo–it’s the Diff Eq. and Vibrations where I’d be a little rusty. 🙂

  101. SugarHillDad says:

    RWM you stated, “He raised $115,350 then he put in $100,000 of his own.
    BTW Mark raised almost the same amont in half the time.
    And Norwood is a fellow dentist.” Mark did almost raise the same amount BUT Hawkins raised the most. Meaning his support is strong and he added his money to the mix (something Musselwhite could have done) to continue the race till its end. About Mark doing it in half the time, did he not qualify the same week as Hawkins? That statement of your is completely false. On the Norwood coment, because his profession was dentistry does that disqualify him of a valid opinion. He is a Congressman in the Senate District I would think that would matter to a few Conservatives.

  102. rtwingmom says:

    I guess it won’t end.
    Sugar dad. Lee started his fundraising long before Mark. Lee knew he was going to run almost a year ago. Mark decided to run after Stacy dropped out.
    I mentioned Norwood being a dentist b/c he was one of the few Republicans Lee gave money too. Plus, most of Lee’s money came from dentist not constituents.

  103. amazed says:

    Who cares? Stick a fork in it…when Mark wins, come back & post something to make this thread officially cooked!

  104. TSlaughter says:

    JSM,

    [quote]
    From Gainesville City records, from 2000 to 2006:
    The net digest increased 38% (2.38b to 3.29b)
    The millage rate increased 26% (2.30 to 2.89)
    The net taxes levied increased 73% (5.48m to 9.50m)
    Refute ’em.
    [/quote]

    Here’s a NEWS FLASH for the Hawkins Spin Machine.

    Musselwhite didn’t have any decision on the budget until 2002. When he arrived on the Council, the 2000 budget was past. The City was spending it’s way through the 2001 budget, and Mark, along with the other four Council members considered the proposed budget for 2002.

    Again, Musselwhite, a Councilman on a five member City Council, DID NOT make budget decisions until the 2002 budget.

    The Hawkins Spin Machine is holding a man accountable for something he had ZERO influence over.

    Is Musselwhite also responsible for the 10+ year Florida / Georgia water war?

  105. Mike Hassinger says:

    Buzz, this is all your fault, for posting what has led to the never-ending thread.

  106. TSlaughter says:

    OH !!! (snap)

    I just gave a great idea to the “Spin Machine”.

    “Mark Musselwhite.
    He is the reason Florida is Suing Georgia in WATER WAR 2006”
    Coming to a mailbox near you.

  107. jsm says:

    I thought we voted for this thread to be dead. Oh, well.

    You had to think long and hard on that one didn’t you, Todd? Keep trying.

  108. TSlaughter says:

    SugarHillDad,

    [quote]
    About Mark doing it in half the time, did he not qualify the same week as Hawkins?
    [/quote]

    No sir. Hawkins was in the race against Reece from the beginning.

    Musselwhite entered the race on the LAST day of qualifying when Reece announced he was dropping from the Senate race. It was such a screw up that Governor Perdue extend qualifying by a week.

    So yes sir, it is significant that Musselwhite has raised virtually the same amount of money in half the time, and her statement is completely accurate.

    “Plus, most of Lee’s money came from dentist not constituents.” Also true.

  109. TSlaughter says:

    JSM,

    [quote]
    You had to think long and hard on that one didn’t you, Todd?
    [/quote]

    No sir.
    I, seemingly unlike you,…

    Question Everything

    Think For Myself

    Come To My Own Conclusions About Life

    Let me explain this new concept to you.

    I VERIFY something to make sure it is ACCURATE before I put my name to it. Something you should give some consideration to.

    I wanted to make sure I understood how the process works, so, I contacted the City Manager’s office. They steered me in the right direction and gladly took the time to share the process and help me, a citizen of this great community, understand the system. I’ll add that I asked questions about the “process” not about the Council members.

    That allows me to come back to the “Play Pen” and be a bully to assuming, numb skull, knuckle draggers like you.
    (Haha… I crack myself up.)

  110. TSlaughter says:

    JSM,

    [quote]
    You had to think long and hard on that one didn’t you, Todd?
    [/quote]

    Also, you being a Hawkins campaign volunteer, this comment confirms to me the Hawkins Spin Machine developed that mailer thinking the public would not try to understand, but instead would just believe the misrepresentation.

    Now, that’s the honest, “no negative” campaign Lee has been saying he wants.

    More proof Lee is talking out of both sides of his bleeding *s*. Typical Democrat.

    And when you see him,… tell him to stop hitting on my girlfriend.
    He’s a married man, for crying out loud!

  111. GabrielSterling says:

    Alright…since we can’t kill this thread, let’s just rename it “Jason” and this can be refered to as “Jason X: Jason in Space”.

  112. rtwingmom says:

    I do believe we are shooting for 200 now.
    What page are we on now?
    Does it ever hit a point where the site just throws us off?

  113. TSlaughter says:

    My last comment about Lee “talking” was a bit rude, and for that I apologize.

    You know guys,… there seems to be a hate for Musselwhite from several of the Hawkins’ campaign members. This hate is reminiscent of the hatred that some have for GW Bush.

    I believe the Hawkins campaign committee is furious that Musselwhite jumped in the race back when Reece bailed. Up until that time, Hawkins was a sure win.

    I also believe they fume over the fact that Musselwhite has backing from some very successful businessmen. Look at his campaign manager and treasurer. And, some of Hawkins’ businessmen supporters left and joined Musselwhite’s camp.

    The revelation that many of Hawkins’ financial supporters are from out of the district, and mostly from the dental world, must also be a little embarrassing. I think the financial disclosure speaks volumes about who is really backing who in this race.

    Seemingly, the Hawkins campaign committee is hell bent to find a reason to hate Musselwhite and spread it around like butter on white bread to anyone who will listen. I think they need to go back and revisit the basic principles of their faith.

    I can be wrong, but I do not know of any Musselwhite constituents that feel such a hatred toward Lee. I know I do not hate the man. But I do hate the fabrications and hoodwinks.
    (Hate the sin, not the sinner.)

    The behavior and hate rhetoric this community has encountered over the radio, in the mailers, and online,… along with how “over the top” the Cagle / Reed race is headed,… is a real shame. If this is what it takes to win in politics,… our country has stepped over the line, and surely GOD is disappointed in us.

  114. jsm says:

    Sounds to me like you’re going under, Todd. Keep fighting–it’s hard staying on the surface of that pool of Musselwhite BS you’re in.

    I’d recommend YOU tell Lee to “stop hitting on [your] girlfriend.” Give me a break.

  115. Mike Hassinger says:

    I think we’re coming to a conclusion: Tax cuts are an important issue and inspire a lot of passion. In fact they inspire people to continue posting on threads that should have been shut down long ago.

    The horse is not too dead to beat!

    Long live tax cuts! Viva Reagan!

  116. TSlaughter says:

    JSM,

    You haven’t stopped drinking the Kool-Aid like I suggested, have you?

    The girlfriend comment was a joke, though he does tell me and Mark and anyone else within listening distance that if he weren’t married, I’d be in a real race.

    It’s a complement to the girl, and a joke among friends. Something you struggle with, huh?

  117. TSlaughter says:

    Moving on from the RINO Spin Machine’s bogus claims of tax increases, and getting back on track about issues.

    I want to go back and replay Booray’s questions because I believe they are relevant.

    1. How many tax increases did Musselwhite vote for?

    Answer: One increase for 17 fireman, 9 policeman and 2 code enforcement officers. This was shortly after 9/11, and the citizens of Gainesville APPROVED the increase.

    2. How many times did Musselwhite vote against rollbacks mandated by state law?

    Answer: Gainesville City Council rolled back the millage each time mandated.

  118. bowersville says:

    TSlaughter, JSM
    Please exchange an email address. We can’t let something Buzz started get to 200. LOL

  119. rtwingmom says:

    About the girlfriend, Todd she is very nice. Josh, how many times has Lee been married? He left one at the alter. Fine man. Did he marry the next one? How long with this one? And by the way, didn’t her ex run for office and lose? She is really pushing this along.

    Buzz, I knew a Super Hero named Erick Erickson. He was a gay hairdresser in Atlanta.

  120. jsm says:

    Keep fighting, Todd. Looks like your anger alone may push this thing to the 200 posts Buzz is looking for.

    RWM,
    It’s easy to post this kind of petty character assassination in anonymity, isn’t it?

  121. rtwingmom says:

    Josh, Just as easy as your fabrications.
    Actually it is easier b/c I don’t have to stretch the truth.

  122. Demonbeck says:

    If you take the next letter in the alphabet for each letter in HAL, you get IBM.

    Eery, huh?

  123. TSlaughter says:

    Hey Josh,
    Very honestly, I’m not angry at all.

    I’m not angry with you, because I believe you are misguided and mistaken. (BTW, a well respected lady has given me an endorsement about you, and she believes you are smart and thinks highly of you. I look forward to meeting you. Shake first, swing later.)

    I’m not angry with Lee, because he is disappointed this race isn’t going the way it was drawn out to go per the plans designed last fall, and as any competitive person will do, he’ll allow the campaign committee to do whatever it takes to win.

    I think this forum is fun. It has allowed for some jousting that has brought to the surface the truth about these men in the race.

    Historically, Hawkins has financially supported liberal Democrats, and in many cases against Republican candidates, per public disclosure records. So, saying he is a Democrat based on his past actions is not a lie. It might not be what he wants people to think, but it’s not a lie.

    As a representative for the Dental Association, he has walked the halls of the Capitol glad-handing representatives and delivering the GDA message and expressing their industry’s concerns. That’s lobbying. And, a person does not have to be paid to be a lobbyist. So, again, saying he is a lobbyist based on his past actions is not a lie. It might not be what he wants people to think, but it’s not a lie.

    Sending out a mailer, and promoting a radio ad that holds a man accountable for City Council decisions that he was not a part of in an effort to sway the public is a fabrication.

    The “raised taxes” mailer and radio ad that most of this thread has argued over indicates the years 2000 through 2006. The long-standing City Councilman Jim West was involved in the 2000 and 2001 budgets. The 2006 budget was in consideration and wasn’t yet approved when Musselwhite resigned from the Council to enter this race. Technically, Musselwhite is only responsible for 57% of what your candidate says he’s responsible for.

    Musselwhite has been truthful in admitting why he did approve a millage increase, as indicated above in two of my posts.

    So, again, I’m not angry at all. I’m as confident about the outcome of this race as I was about the outcome of the Bush / Gore race. The right man will be in the Senate 49 seat come November.

    But let me add this,… Hawkins still contends he is running a “clean” campaign. In his own words to Martha Zoller in her interview with him on Tuesday’s show, said he “will keep it clean until Election Day.”

    Currently, there is a television ad that is another un-truth.

    Here’s a question for any Hawkins supporter…
    What is Lee’s definition of a “clean” campaign?

  124. TSlaughter says:

    I have a mistake in my above post.

    Musselwhite was on Council for the 2002-2006 budgets.

    But, that’s still excludes 2000 and 2001.

    My bad.

  125. jsm says:

    Todd,
    I have enjoyed the debate as well, but I grew tired of it somewhere around post 100. We had hashed and re-hashed all pertinent issues at that point, but I could not allow certain accusations to go unchallenged.

    The more times you post Musselwhite talking points does not make them true. I’m not going to take 20 minutes to argue them again in a long post that no one wants to read.

    I, like you, have been having fun, and Mark’s web lady could tell you that I get into the banter as much as anyone else. I would be able to shake your hand and be friendly after this is over. It reminds me of playing basketball in high school. On the court, it was all out warfare, but after the game I would sometimes go hang out at a restaurant with players from the other team.

    May the best man win. I look forward to July 19th.

  126. rtwingmom says:

    One last thing, if we aren’t going to argue anymore – what will we do until Tuesday? 😉

  127. Chris says:

    And I say congrats to him and his team.

    (lets see how long we can keep this thread alive)

    PS. Bill Simon is an alien.

  128. Chris says:

    Yeah Bill, but your from the Andromeda galaxy. Everyone east of the galatic plane knows that Andromedians are the Alabamians of this cluster.

  129. jsm says:

    Tommy,

    You love to gloat, don’t you. 🙂 We had one heckuva party that night. I’m looking forward to the run-up to November.

    Long live the Senate 49 thread…

  130. GabrielSterling says:

    Well…dingleberry…

    This thread started as a way for the Musselwhite campaign to float poll numbers showing them up 15 points. Of course ten days later they barely came in first in the primary and then their opponent Lee Hawkins won handily in the runoff.

    During the thread there was a circular long winded debate on the Georgia Property Tax, various personal insults, comparisons to Clinton, mathematical accusations, Tech bashing, UGA bashing, a denial of relatives of candidates posting, alien abduction and implantation, a discussion of “web wench” vs “MILF”.

    Essentially, it is about whatever you want it to be about. Just so long as the thead stay alive…

  131. dingleberry says:

    I like MILFs. Can we talk more about MILFs?

    No, I got it. Hollywood Drama.

    NO. Hollywood Drama Queen MILFs!

    Yes.

    Okay, so…what is the deal with Angelina Jolie?

  132. dingleberry says:

    I love her. I want to adopt her kids. How can she stand to put up with that pretty-boy Brad Pitt? She needs a real man. A man like me. She needs a man that will do or say ANYTHING to insure the existence of the Senate 49 thread. That man is me, Dingleberry.

  133. Tommy_a2b says:

    I thought I would come back and say how much fun it is to see everyone supporting the true conservative in this race. I am making early predictions that Lee Hawkins wins by 20 pts.

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