Rudy and Ralph

Okay, I know some of you are developing the shakes since you haven’t had a chance to discuss the LG race today, so here’s your daily dose of Ralph Reed . . .

Rudolph Giuliani was in Atlanta today for the big fundraiser with Ralph Reed:

Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani praised Ralph Reed on Thursday as a candidate who can implement core Republican policies of tax cuts and a crackdown on crime.

“You can count me as a friend and supporter, someone who will do anything I can to get you elected,” Giuliani told Reed during a fundraiser for the ex-Christian Coalition leader who is locked in a fierce battle for Georgia’s lieutenant governor seat.

Giuliani’s appearance is certain to give Reed’s campaign a boost in the run-up to the July 18 Republican primary. Reed’s campaign has been dogged by his ties to disgraced former lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who is facing prison time after pleading guilty to charges of conspiracy, tax evasion and fraud.

And it could provide Giuliani with a jolt of support among conservative Republicans. Giuliani’s endorsement of Reed comes weeks after religious conservative icon Rev. Jerry Falwell said he admired the former mayor, but could not support him for president because of “irreconcilable differences on life and family.”

Giuliani supports abortion rights, gay rights and gun control.

Reed and Giuliani were effusive in praise for one another as they entered the Atlanta fundraiser just before noon, surrounded by news media from Georgia and New York.

“I just want to say I believe Rudy Giuliani is one of the finest leaders in not only the Republican Party but in either party,” Reed said.

So how much of a boost does this give Reed?  Compare and contrast the endorsements of Zell Miller and Rudy Giuliani.  Which means more in Georgia?

100 comments

  1. debbie0040 says:

    http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/0518rudy.html

    Giuliani stumps for Ralph Reed in Atlanta
    Touts lieutenant governor candidate’s “ability as a leader”

    I’m against gay marriage and I’m in favor of civil unions,” Giuliani told reporters after his 20-minute speech. “I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that it should remain that way, inviolate. But I also believe that you should allow for protection of the legal rights of people that are gay and lesbian. And it seems to me the best way to do that is by having a separate category that protects their rights called domestic partnerships.”

  2. caroline says:

    I guess Rudy would agree with the judge’s decision regarding the gay marriage amendment in GA.

  3. debbie0040 says:

    The voters of Georgia don’t. They passed it by 76% last time. It is doubtful they would approve civil unions.

    The reason I posted that is because there has been much said by Cagle supporters on this blog saying Rudy was in favor of gay marriage.

  4. Demonbeck says:

    Why doesn’t Ralph go to New York to go fishing with Rudy? Why must Rudy always come to Georgia for their fishing trips?

    “I wish I knew how to quit you,” said Ralph at togay’s event.

  5. George Allen 08 says:

    Heard it had a good turnout. Anyone in attendance?

    I think everyone on here knows that an endorsement alone will not sway voters to vote for a candidate, but this certainly gives Reed some good publicity. Reed may appeal to moderate Republican voters a little more now after Giuliani’s endorsement.

  6. Decaturguy says:

    What it sounds like to me is that Rudy would have had to vote against the Georgia Constitutional Amendment.

  7. caroline says:

    This is why I see this whole “gay marriage” issue as stupid. The Gov. and his minions put forth an amendment that they knew wouldn’t pass muster. Then they have politicians who are supportive of gay rights do fundraisers and campaign for them.

    The 76% support has now collapsed to around 50+% according to SUSA. Quoting what happened 2 years ago doesn’t help much with making your case. At that same time 51% of the population in the US voted for Bush. Now only about 1/3 of the country would bother to show up and vote for him.

  8. debbie0040 says:

    Your jealousy is showing Demonbeck. 🙂 🙂

    Reed’s stance on gay marriage, civil unions is well known. Just ask someone that is gay what they think of Reed.

    I think Reagan is one of the greatest President’s this nation has ever had and I did not agree with him on everything. Reed and Giuliani don’t have to agree on everything.

    Look at the great press this visit is generating. You might not want to watch either the local or national news tonight.

  9. debbie0040 says:

    Caroline, what polls are you quoting? Provide a link to it.

    I will bet that if it is on the ballot in November it will at least pass by 76% or better.

    Why on earth do you think both Dem candidates are jumping on the gay ammendment appeal/special session bandwagon?

  10. caroline says:

    Debbie,
    I quoted them to you yesterday. They are from SUSA 7/05 poll on this issue. They tracked this issue in all 50 states. The susa website is http://www.surveyusa.com.

    Yes, and we all heard about how Arnold’s amendments in CA were going to pass with flying colors. I wouldn’t be surprised if a bunch of African Americans and Hispanics (who voted for the amendment before) will now come out and vote for it just to give Sonny a black eye.

    What D’s are supporting it? Cox and Taylor? Like I said, according to SUSA, it still has over 50% support.

    Yes, jobs are leaving the state, NCLB is a bunch of garbage and a host of other problems but the most pressing issue to these idiots is something that is already prohibited in the state constitution. No wonder the GOP is polling terribly on issues like “understands my problems.”

  11. grassrootsguy says:

    Just back from the event and how exciting it was. More than 300 there, about 185K raised, big media, and what a great endorsement.

    Couldn’t have said it better, “Reed can get things done.”

    Best of all for Reed, it deals with all the liberal attacks once and for all. If national Republican leaders like Rudy do this for Reed, they cannot be concerned about all the charges coming from the liberal media and the Cagle camp.

    I continue to be amazed by all the hatred that is out there in the Cagle camp for Reed, but it was great to be in a crowd of true Republican leaders who are backing Reed, three senators, a couple of state reps, Bo Calloway, Guy Milner, etc.

    Cagle can join the left wing groups in attacking Reed, but I know Republican primary voters will do the right thing.

    And Reed announced that Sean Hannity will do an event for him next week.

    Who comes next?

  12. Bill Simon says:

    Who cares? None of these folks can vote for Ralph. Go ask Bob Barr how much the “celebrities” helped him get elected in 2002…oh, wait, he DIDN’T get elected, did he?

  13. Former Cagle Guy says:

    I was there too. Best $100 I ever donated. I only wish I could give more.

    There was a buzz in the room. I met people from different parts of the state and saw several from NE Georgia where I am from and from Cagle’s home territory. He does not even have his own district sown up as far as I can tell.

    America’s mayor was very good and even promised to come back to Georgia again to help Reed if necessary. He said how wonderful it would be for Republicans and Georgia to have someone of Reed’s ability in the LG office.

    And it did not matter that he and Reed do not agree on every issue. Republicans have room for both Reed and Giuliani and it is good if they can get along and support one another.

    I agree that Cagle’s downfall will be his joining in with the liberal media and now the left wing groups to try to destroy Reed.

    Rudy once and for all nailed that coffin shut. Reed has some good footage for commercials and next week Sean Hannity is back in Atlanta for Reed. I am going to try to get down to that event too.

  14. Former Cagle Guy says:

    Bill,

    You would care if they were in town for your guy. Give Reed some credit here. If he is elected, he will be the most high profile LG in America.

    How can that be bad for our state?

  15. Jack S says:

    I’m still waiting for the big grassroots machine reeds to prove they actually exist.

    Everything about this guy and his campaign is a mirage.

  16. Demonbeck says:

    Reed wouldn’t even be the most high profile LG on the East Coast. That would go to Michael Steele, the African American Republican from Maryland who gave a rousing speech at the last convention.

  17. Sandy Brothers says:

    I have already been walking precincts for Reed in my area, together with about ten other couples. I don’t consider myself a mirage.

    Funny thing, when I knock on doors, I don’t find any who have read the AJC or ask about the Abramoff stuff. I bet we hit 100 houses last weekend and no one reported anything about that.

  18. Three Jack says:

    “If he is elected, he will be the most high profile LG in America. How can that be bad for our state?”

    Possible headline after November election — ‘Georgia Lt. Governor indicted on numerous charges’, Sub-headline – ‘Convicted co-conspirator Jack Abramhoff will testify against Ralph Reed’.

    Is this the kind of “high profile” Lt. Governor you seek Never Cagle Guy?

  19. jackson says:

    “I bet we hit 100 houses last weekend and no one reported anything about that.”
    So you hit a hundred houses. Great!

    So the question is, how many people did it take to do the other 900?

    Still, no answer from Ralph Reed, or “Former Cagle Guy”/Ralph Reed Staff member.

    You shouldnt have lied, Jared. Gonna come back an bite you.

  20. Sandy Brothers says:

    “Convicted”?????

    I guess that’s why Giuliani, Sean Hannity, Zell Miller, Gov. Barbour and others are endorsing Reed. They fear he will be convicted?

    Keep trying, but we’re not buying. That’s the same crap Cagle has been spreading for more than a year.

    Reed has not even been charged. Cagle and the liberal media are simply trying to tar and feather him as a means to destroy him. That hurts all Republicans.

    I cannot respect Cagle any longer. Nor will I vote for him even if he wins the primary. He does not deserve the position. This is why some values voters sit out elections. This kind of campaigning has to stop.

  21. George Allen 08 says:

    I still don’t know who Casey Cagle is…all I’ve heard is that he’s not Ralph Reed.

  22. gopdoc says:

    What other kind of campaign would you expect from Cagle?

    This is the guy who gave Mark Taylor $1,000 and then lied saying Taylor intimindated him into doing it. Both Taylor and Eric Johnson say he lied.

    This is they guy who broke campaign finance laws by “puffing” his report with contributions he had not even collected. He wanted us to think he raised more than he did.

    This is the senator who voted with Roy Barnes as often as the democrats, worked against early efforts at tort reform, and dodged a difficult vote on eminent domain.

    And now all he can do is attack his opponent with lies from the liberal left.

    I agree with whoever said it, I would rather trust Rudy, Zell, Hannity, and other long time Republicans in this state and not a weak state senator with a lackluster record.

  23. SouthernConservative says:

    OH NO!! They caught me!

    Back to the subject at hand. Hmmm:

    Rudy Giuliani v. Clint Murphy

    Zell Miller v. Chip Pearson/Jeff Mullis/Jim Whitehead

    Sean Hannity v. Steve Forbes

    Bo Callaway v. Some sherrif somewhere

    Mack Mattingly v. some county commissioner somewhere

    Do they vote? Most of them don’t. Do they raise money? Yup. Lots. Buys commercials. Lots of them. Good ones. Smack.

  24. jackson says:

    “This is why some values voters sit out elections. This kind of campaigning has to stop. ”

    Did you forget about Skandalakis? Oh, the irony.

  25. Maurice Atkinson says:

    I honestly am glad he had a good event. It’s about time something went his way.

    Ralph is striking out on the ground. He’s relied on teenagers to gotv. Seems they’re not interested.

    Debbie, the world really is round.

  26. Maurice Atkinson says:

    Jackson, they’ve already established that “all’s fair in love and politics”.

  27. debbie0040 says:

    Oh, the envy I see just oozing from the pores of Cagle devotees.

    This is the beginning of the end for the Cagle Klan and their negative campaigning. The handwriting is on the wall.

    I was out of town attending my daughter’s college graduation and could not go door to door. I did talk to those that did. Most people did not even know Cagle. They knew Reed and were ignoring the maistream media crap. They see the msm attack Bush and Republicans all the time and ignore it.

    You guys will understand that Reed is telling the truth about grassroots July 18th.

    Three Jack, Shut up about Reed going to be indicted. It is not going to happen so just shut your pie hole about it! Quit spreading rumors you know are false.

    Most voters have a lot more respect for Rudy, Sean and Zell than they do for their State Senators. A lot of voters could not even tell you who their State Sentor is.

    Zell Miller can vote for Ralph but Sean and Rudy can not. What Rudy and Sean and others dignitaries from out of state can do is to put the rumors to rest about Ralph being indicted and hurting the party. Voters will see the fact they are standing by Reed so there must not be much credence to the Abramoff thing and the headlines.

    The negative campaigning will hurt Cagle and he will end up being known as the candidate that thought he could win a campaign by attack and humerous internet cartoons. That is really laughable.

  28. debbie0040 says:

    Jackson, Jared did not lie.

    Reed will be speaking at the Cobb GOP Breakfast Saturday and at Paulding County. There will be packed crowds at both.

    He is out working while Casey is trying to think of new internet cartoon to come up with. Maybe Cagle should try to wrangle a guest spot on Saturday Night Live. Never mind, that would ruin the show that I have watched for so many years…

  29. bowersville says:

    Well, plenty of money to run TV time. Plenty of fund raisers to bring in more cash? Envious? You bet, sounds like the confidence of Bobby Kakn and Roy Barnes. I am envious you are this arrogant. All you senators watch out here comes that King Rat, Ralph Reed.

  30. Bill Simon says:

    I’m kinda of curious…I saw Ralphie speak this afternoon on the FOX-5 tape. He talked about “securing our border” being one of his most important stump talking points. What’s he going to do, secure our border to prevent people from Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, North Carolina, and South Carolina from moving here?

    What a complete dipsh*t.

  31. jackson says:

    “The negative campaigning will hurt Cagle…” Sure worked for Mitch Skandalakis.

    It was OKAY back then, but not now?

    “I did talk to those that did. Most people did not even know Cagle.” Well, considering there were only about 40 volunteers out for about an hour, they really didnt hit a lot of homes.

    “Jackson, Jared did not lie.” Really? Then prove it. Did your folks only hit houses for an hour, or did only a few show up? or are you talking about the 6000 man grassroots army? If there are 6000 people, where are they? Why didnt they show up? Why did they show up at your grassroots training…considering you invited everyone, even me? Why didnt they show up at the christian coalition event? Why didnt they show up to walk door to door all weekend. The best you could do was 40 people in 20 counties, 2 people each?

    The lies have caught up with Ralph Reed. The have finally caught up with him.

  32. Bull Moose says:

    Blah Blah Blah…

    Ralph Reed had a great event… Big freaking deal… He is still tied to Jack Abramoff and one of the largest corruption of congress’ scandals in recent history.

    I almost spit up my drink though when I read that Rudy said Ralph Reed was going to help fight crime. That is a joke.

    Mr. Ethically challenged Ralph Reed knows a thing or two about crime and it isn’t fighting it…

  33. Three Jack says:

    “Values Voters” – I encourage all who think they have cornered the market on “values” to read George Will’s column (that would be you Sandy Bros and especially the values vixen herself debbie) –http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/georgewill/2006/05/18/197898.html — including this excerpt — “Conservatives should be wary of the idea that when they talk about, say, tax cuts and limited government — about things other than abortion, gay marriage, religion in the public square and similar issues — they are engaging in values-free discourse. And by ratifying the social conservatives’ monopoly of the label “values voters,” the media are furthering the fiction that these voters are somehow more morally awake than others.”

  34. George Allen 08 says:

    Ralph Reed already has a six point lead in the polls. Now he has Rudy Giuliani endorsing him and Sean Hannity coming next week, and the grassroots activists are in full stride.

    Jackson, has it ever crossed your mind that perhaps all of the Reed volunteers were not out knocking on doors last weekend? Perhaps only the volunteers in the twenty counties were out. You can’t assume that every single volunteer would be out every single weekend.

    I think you’re just shocked that Ralph Reed has so many supporters. Tell me, jackson, how many volunteers does Casey Cagle have to go door to door supporting him?

  35. Three Jack says:

    According to the Metro Political Report, Casey and Ralph will faceoff in Cherokee County Monday night at 7:00. That should be much more entertaining than listening to Ralph at a Cobb breakfast pandering to his faithful myrmidons like Debbie…”shut your piehole?”…that’s no way for the values vixen to talk.

  36. bowersville says:

    GA08,
    Might it shock you that the negative view of Reed is so great that he can not win in November?

  37. George Allen 08 says:

    A Republican can’t win in Georgia in November? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

  38. bowersville says:

    GA08,
    Respectfully, he will not win the general, I hope not the primary for the sake of the party. I am one of those anti Reeds concerned about where to go in the general. Conventional wisdom will not prevail in this race, it is too polarizing.

  39. McCain-Rice\'08 says:

    There is no question this was a possitive moment for Reed..but I think folks like Debbie are thinking this will make a “huge impact” and it wont.

    Reed truly needs all these endorsements to survive, because his record is something he doesn’t want in the spotlight.

    However, his decades of corrution, and dirty politics are slowly but surely catching up with him…and they will bring his political deffeat which will shock the state, let alone the nation in July.

    This race is getting nastier than I could have predicted and we haven’t seen nothing yet Im afraid. But there are more reasons than I can count on why Cagle is a much better candidate for Lt. Governor than Reed…and you all have seen my previous posts..so I will save my breath and not give detailed reasons. Reed is bad for this party and bad for this state..his attrocious acts of dirty campaigning exiplifies that he does not deserve elected office, and I have enourmous faith that the people of Georgia will look past these big name endorsements and see the real Ralph Reed and will send the other candidate, the honest and compationate one to be the next Lt. Governor…so I have unwaivering support for Casey Cagle and we will cause a huge upset in December that will probably send Reed packing and moving back to K-Street where he really belongs.

  40. George Allen 08 says:

    I understand your concern bowersville. I really do. My first concern, as a Republican, is getting Sonny reelected. However, I do not believe the lt gov nominee affects the governor’s race much at all. People do not vote in blocks on the gov/lt gov election, otherwise the current gov and lt gov would be of the same party.

  41. George Allen 08 says:

    Hey McCain-Rice…

    I’ve got bad news for you. McCain’s a liberal and Rice doesn’t want to be President or VP. George Allen is the way to go in 08.

  42. jackson says:

    “Jackson, has it ever crossed your mind that perhaps all of the Reed volunteers were not out knocking on doors last weekend? Perhaps only the volunteers in the twenty counties were out.?

    Yeah, it has. That is my point. At 2 people per county, that means at least 40 people…which means each volunteer only hit 25 homes….less than an hours work. MY POINT was that Reeds response to the Cagle ad was essentially “We dont care about the internet…we are focused on grassroots” so they “knocked on 1000 doors in 20 counties. “But it doesnt make any sense. That is really not concentrating on grassroots or being efficient, 2 things they criticize cagle about.

    It was obvious by the comment they were pulling numbers out of thin air to make it seem like they were doing something but in all reality they werent. It was just a lame excuse.

    They are pulling numbers out of thin air. It ridiculous. And it is lying. I am sure they have plenty of volunteers, and I am sure some went out knocking on doors.
    THE POINT IS THEY ARE LYING ABOUT THEIR NUMBERS AND IT IS OBVIOUS!

  43. George Allen 08 says:

    What benefit would the Reed campaign receive to overstate the number of doors they knocked on this weekend?

  44. McCain-Rice\'08 says:

    Ok…I guess I can understand, you guys just come back from a Reed event with Guliani there as an endorsment, I guess one would only assume a “smug” attitude is to follow, and I have the up most respect for Guliani and Reed is entitled to some postive press now and again.

    But, Grassrootsguy, this endorsement does not “end the attacks once and for all”..Reed can have all the endorsements he wants but his record will get him in the end…John Kerry tried to run from a record he didn’t like…it didn’t work, but fortunatley for Kerry he didnt have the corrupt past as Ralph Reed had.

    and Jackson, funny you mention the “Skandalakis Campaign”..the most corrupt candidate in Georgia history (Reed’s not far behind)..but the “back bone of that nasty campaign” was Ralph Reed…need I say more??

  45. jackson says:

    To make it sound like they are doing something. Why would they say they have 6000 volunteers?

    George Allen (we agree on one thing! I am for him too!)…they were lying about it because they didnt know what else to say. Don’t you see what is going on here?

    1000 doors in 20 counties = 25 homes per volunteer, if they had 2 volunteers (very small considering they say they have on average almost 40 per county) which takes less than an hour to do.

    If it was more than 2 per county, then it was even LESS time. If it was less, what was it, 1? 1 volunteer showed up? They have 6000 people, they say.

    They are faking their numbers. They got caught lying. Its obvious because they cant explain why they said that.

  46. McCain-Rice\'08 says:

    lol..GA’08… I like George Allen too, but you can’t claim McCain is “liberal”…he has been a hawk on the budget and has had unwavering support for the President on the War on terror. In my oppinion he is the best candidate, and I know Condi is not going to run for President…but I hope she would be nominated as McCain’s running mate and accept…Im not sure what would actually happen in 2008, but this in my mind is “the ideal ticket” and possibly the only one at this point that could beat Senator Clinton.

  47. bowersville says:

    GA/08,
    Though you may not be concerned, the polls show a drag on the party by Reed. Perhaps new polls will show otherwise, but I doubt it. If you are so concerned about re-electing Sonny, dump Reed.

  48. George Allen 08 says:

    Slim chance Hillary Clinton would win a general election. McCain could easily beat Hillary, but I think George Allen would win by 5 to 8 points as well. Hillary is just way too liberal in the minds of reasonable Americans. Now, if the Dems nominate Mark Warner, then the Republicans would need a moderate like Giuliani or Romney, or even McCain. I’m also hoping that W can talk Condi into running for President sometime in the next decade, but I just don’t see the desire on her part.

    Jackson, I’m tired and can’t really understand math right now, but from what I can tell 1000 doors in 20 counties is an average of 50 doors per county. “Sandy Brothers” said that their group hit 100 doors in their county, meaning that another 900 doors were knocked on in 19 other counties. Perhaps in those other 19 counties the Reed Campaign had a couple of people knocking on doors, and they knocked on around 40 doors per group. That makes sense to me, but I’m not a politician or a campaigner so I don’t know how that stuff works.

    Either way, I still don’t see the benefit of the Reed campaign overstating the doors they knocked on. It’s in their best interest to knock on as many doors as possible, is it not?

  49. George Allen 08 says:

    Bowersville, if this is true, then why is Perdue not coming out in favor of Cagle? If Cagle would help him get reelected, then wouldn’t that be a logical move?

  50. jsm says:

    Whatever happened to all the huge press this event was supposed to generate? I didn’t see any coverage on the 11:00 news. Is the brief news coverage from this morning and afternoon all that the Giuliani event will generate?

    Hmmm… big splash.

  51. bowersville says:

    Sorry about that, but I laspsed and hit the wrong key. MR, you have been around long enough to realize the current Governor of any state, of any party, will not come out and endorse a particular candidate in a state with voting requirements such as ours, before the primary. But privately, what is happening?

  52. jackson says:

    GA/08 – Your math is right if only ONE person showed up in each county. With 6000 volunteers, they could only muster one person per county? Are you kidding me?

    50 doors is only a little over an hours work (I did it for Sonny last time ran) maybe an hour and a half. I hardly doubt just one person showed up in each county, that is why I estimated TWO people per county showing up. At that, less than an hour for everyone.

    I know you are tired, so maybe you can think about this some later.

    They overstated because they were just making it up when the reporter called. They had to have something to say. It probably went something like this….”Oh, yeah, they did an internet ad? Well….so what….we dont care about that. We, uh, knocked on a bunch of doors, yeah, 1000 doors (That sounds like a lot) yeah, in uh, 20 counties. Yeah, 20 counties…..Yeah, that’s the ticket”.

    Again, my point is NOT that they had people knock on doors. Its obvious some people were probably out (and I am sure with Cagle too)…They have consistenly attacked Casey Cagle for doing stuff on the internet because it somehow doesnt matter, is a waste of money, etc….when they cant muster enough people to knock on very many doors, or get them to knock on them for very long — is hardly a “focus” on grassroots.

    All that to say, it is obvious they are making up numbers out of thin air. They dont have 6000 volunteers.

  53. McCain-Rice\'08 says:

    Bowers, considering that Sonny was the one that fired Ralph Reed as GAGOP Chair, and considering that he and his campaign are very aware that Ralph Reed would be a hindrince to his campaign…I seriously doubt he is “behind the scenes backing Reed.”..and even if he were he’d be very foolish to come out in public with it because Cox and Taylor would have a field day.

    Im not saying he is for Cagle, but he is smart to stay out of it, and if Reed wins (God forbid)..Sonny would be wise to keep a good distance from Reed to avoid a backlash in Novembber.

  54. UGAMatthew says:

    Is it me or does the debate over numbers of grassroot volunteers or more specifically, how many doors, hours and the like…blah blah blah, seem rather pointless. Cagle overstating his fundraising + Reed overstating his grassroot support = cancels each other out. No big deal. Let’s go back to Giuliani…Does anyone think that in the long run, a socially liberal New York mayor (and I respect Giuliani a lot, but just calling a spade a spade) is going to make waves in a Georgia election? Or was Reed just using his endorsement as a fundraisinig tactic? Which, I understand, was a succes…

  55. McCain-Rice\'08 says:

    GA’08…do not underestimate Hillary Clinton, she can be very appealing and her intellect and expertise at campaigning will not be a cake walk for any Republican, even McCain..I expect the 2008 race (if things continue) to be closer than 2004 (even with McCain) but not as close as 2000. We need to carefully watch Ohio, Colorado, and Arkansas..and they need to watch the Mid west and North Western States.

  56. UGAMatthew says:

    WOW.
    Bowers,
    I don’t know if I’m more offended by your assertion that I am a democrat, (which is an egegrious error on your part) or if by that you are implying that you find more value in debating who is lying about doors rather than more germane issues, such as the effect of endorsements on these campaigns.

    And just to end any debate on my politics…I am as socially, fiscally and wholly conservative as they come and a card-holding member of the GOP. So, Bowers, if I were you, I’d hesitate jumping to conclusions from here on out. I was just simply trying to move the conversation along, back to the topic of the thread; one I find more interesting than arguing over math for hours. The point about Reed’s “fuzzy math” was made. ( And I commend y’all for hypothesizing that data this late night too…its too late for math for me) But let’s get back to Giuliani and the like, that’s all I saying.

  57. McCain-Rice\'08 says:

    Sorry to go off topic…But I just got e-mailed the latest Poll results conducted by WXIA (11 Alive)

    Governor Perdue’s Approval ratting: 60%
    President Bush’s Approval rating: 41% (thats for Georgia only)

    Things are looking good for Sonny, but last month this same poll had Bush at 43% here in Georgia, Im postive it was a backlash from the immigration issue.

  58. bowersville says:

    GA08,
    I’m dumb with my posts, but I will try to be clear with you. Nothing personal, but if you and like minded people offer me Reed, the take money from indians to prevent other indians from having profit by some ruined family by gambling profits is all you have to offer, the one who would have voted against it, before I voted for it, though I couldn’t vote, because I have’nt been elected, we voters out here are dumb, but we are not that stupid. Sometimes I confuse things but not this time.. Reed is a bead and blanket Snake Oil Saleman.

  59. UGAMatthew says:

    Bowers,
    Accepted and yes, it’s obvious you’re a bit wound up, but no worries. Hey, that’s why we’re here. I just hope we can get wound up about politics, not doors. I really am stuck in the middle with Reed and Cagle, to be honest, neither impress me much. Initially I favored Cagle over Reed, but lately, his going negative so strongly has made me question the confidence he has with his campaign and lends to little forshadowing of how a Cagle win might be somewhat wishy-washy…but that’s where it goes full circle to Reed, as you just pointed out. I’m just as wound up, but mine is frustration from being dissapointed/unimpressed/irratated with the candidates.

    If Reed didn’t have such a quesitionable past, it’d be a landslide.
    If Cagle hadn’t come out so viciously and vigorously against Reed instead of pushing himself, he’d be far better off…maybe I’m an idealist.

  60. debbie0040 says:

    Brian are you talking about those ads run by that left wing front group with ties to Mother Jones and Air America? This same group was protesting at the Rudy event. You are behind the times. We discussed those ads in a previous thread.

    As for Giuliani and his social liberal views, most GOP voters want to see Hillary defeated at all costs. My Mom and Dad are both far right wing conservatives. My Mom is scared of what would happen should Hillary become President and she thinks Rudy is the only one that could keep Hillary from the Whitehouse so she supports him. I think George Allen could stop Hillary but some think Rudy is the only one that can do that.

  61. jackson says:

    UGAMatthew –

    I think its campaignmoney.org. The ads are pretty dead on. Its a liberal group, but they are factual ads.

    I, for one, understand your concern about the candidates. As a hard-core Republican, dont nescissarily like it when Republicans have to fight.

    But, just remember, when Ralph Reed has been put in similar situations as Cagle, he has done the exact same thing. Not that that is any reason to vote for either, but if you are an idealist, which I am too, ask yourself one question:

    As Republicans we have always made an issue of character, only to be mocked and attacked by Democrats for it. But we know it is so important. It is central to who we are as Republicans and what we believe. While you may/may not agree with Casey Cagle on every single issue (as a hard core Republican, I find very little that I dont agree with him on from a policy standpoint), I dont think you would find a lot of people that can question his personal character — real people that know him. And I am not talking about Debbie Ellis.

    Reed, on the other hand, that is the knock on him. While Reed does have some questionable stands, in reality, it is the fact that many feel he sold them out for money. On a personal intergrity level, can you say that would really feel comfortable with Ralph Reeds’ character with a straight face? I mean, its not just the gambling. What about China? What about how he even got the money from the gambling interests (laundering it through a fake christian group so the christian coalition wouldnt find out.) What about Skandalakis? These are not even debatable questions of character. They are all fact. And they are all important.

    Cagle’s “negativity” is pointing these things out. If Reed where a democrat we woudl feel that is is ABSOLUTELY neccesary to point out those contrasts. Why is it different now. Truth is Truth. Content of Charachter matters….regardless of party affiliation.

  62. Jimbo says:

    Jackson, you are wrong about Cagle. I lived in his district and I question his character. He is very sleezy in a sneaky way.

    He introduced a bill to protect chicken plants that would have taken away property owners right to sue if they lived near a chicken or rendering plant.

    He helped kill Tort Reform in 2004 all the while accepting money from trial lawyers.
    Cagle served or still serves on a State Senate Banking Committee while serving as an officer of a bank.

    There is more I could go on about… Those are character issues.

  63. SouthernConservative says:

    RE: the radio ads. I talked to the station manager of Peachtree City’s J 93.3 yesterday, and they’re incensed that their ad agency suckered them into running the ads without revealing the true nature of the content. A reviewing error on their part, no doubt, but anyway, they’re not going to be running the ads anymore after Saturday, when the ad contract runs out.

    I reckon that’s what the Christian community thinks of those ads.

  64. Jimbo,

    The bill was to protect already existing plant’s property rights against new houses that complained about the plants smell when they built right next to the plant.

  65. jackson says:

    Jimbo –

    How is it sleazy if it is disclosed publicly? Its not like he did it in the shadows. Reed funnelled money through a FAKE christian group so he could lie to the Christian Coalition with a straight face.

    Frankly, I dont think personal character has anything to do with where you stand on Tort Reform. Even if he did kill it (which doesnt make sense because he voted for it..you lost me on that one) what does it have to do with personal integrity and character?

    Dick Cheney was president of Haliburton. Haliburton got tons of government contracts. Is Dick Cheney sleazy? You could make that case that if you have a bank account you shouldnt be on the banking committee because you have a financial interest in that bank.

    You are grasping at straws. No Republican — even Sonny — questioned Cagles integrity while on the banking committee. It was only when Ralph Reed started running did his folks start attacking him for it.

  66. jacewalden says:

    SouthernConservative,

    To answer you question from the other thread:

    I’m not disputing Ralph’s “Georgian” roots; or anything he’s done as a Georgian.

    That’s the problem though. He’s not exactly what I would consider a shining example of honest Georgia politics. You’ve even said as much.

    Cagle may not be a choir boy either. But here’s why I’m going to vote for him:

    Cagle: A+ Rating NRA
    Cagle: Endorsed by GA Right to Life
    Cagle: 100% Voting Record with NFIB in 2002.
    Cagle: co-sponser of Zero Based Budgeting
    Cagle: Cagle also has worked for passage of tax relief legislation, as well as measures to provide alternative sources of revenue (other than property taxes) to support public education.
    Cagle: Authored the bill to allow use of a one percent special purpose local option sales tax for school construction.

    And also, I do think that Ralph Reed is a guilty as sin. Sometimes criminals don’t get caught though…anyway, there is.

  67. Romegaguy says:

    Reed’s campaign says that we are not to believe what we see in the “liberal” media. So when the media says that yesterday’s fundraiser was packed with people and raised almost $185k, I dont believe it.

  68. SouthernConservative says:

    Jace sez – “Cagle may not be a choir boy, but here’s why I’m going to vote for him:”

    Ok, y’know what? I can accept that. I really can. That’s one of the first posts I’ve seen on this site from a Cagler that actually makes sense. “Here’s my guy, here’s what he’s accomplished, and here’s why he’s the best man for the job.”

    Because you know what? No Reeder, no matter how badly he hates Cagle or his myrmidons, can dispute the fact that Casey’s a good, decent fella, he’s paid his dues, and he’s done some good things in the state Senate. I still don’t understand his actions in relation to driver’s licenses and eminent domain, but he still has done some decent things up there.

    As opposed to “The other guy sucks and I really can’t talk about what my guy did but I know I hate the other guy so I’m going to vote for my guy cause you know the enemy of my enemy must be my friend so I’m going to vote for my guy not the other guy cause I hate the other guy and I really think he’s a butthole.”

    That’s why I’ve said all along: let’s look at issues and decide.

    Fair enough.

  69. GAWire says:

    Boy, I missed a lot apparently. I got all of my condensending, pointless comments on this subject out of my system yesterday (arguing over this really does get old and my negative comments towards other posters don’t add anything to the discussion).

    During my travels, though, I made sure not to leave the Hill this week without talking to some of my old frienmds. I did pick up some interesting bits of information … stay tuned.

  70. SouthernConservative says:

    Wire – I agree. Your negative comments about the other folks don’t add anything. 😉

    But then again, neither do mine 😀

    Point well spoken.

  71. UGAMatthew says:

    It seems that Cagle has a real advantage over Reed in that he does have a trackrecord, (thanks for highlighting it Jace), and it ain’t half bad. In fact, compared to his opponent, is rather shinging. With Reed, I guess, its all about perception. People either percieve he’s a snake or the percieve he’s a saint. With regards to proving either case, seems as if, at least officially and formally, people don’t have a leg to stand on. But why isn’t Cagle spending focusing on that instead as his campaign centerpiece? That’s what concerns me; however, Jace I think you’re post it valid and may help decide a vote or two…

  72. SouthernConservative says:

    Jace’s post IS valid. If Cagle would pay attention to it and run commercials about his record, rather than about the hit Reed CD, which he undoubtedly will do, he has a shot at winning. However, if he runs commercials that track along with his websites, he loses.

  73. George Allen 08 says:

    Exactly! Cagle’s Senate voting record, with one or two exceptions, is very good! Yet the average voter doesn’t know that because the Cagle campaign has focused on slinging mud at Reed. The campaign continues to say that Reed is scum and that Cagle’s not Reed. They haven’t done anything to point out that Cagle is a proven conservative, and I think that will be the key mistake Cagle will regret when this race is over.

    I believe Erick wrote a huge article on here a couple of weeks ago saying the same thing.

  74. UGAMatthew says:

    YES!
    I think he’s shooting himself in the foot. Ralph knows how to run a campaign or two and I think he is laying low, letting Cagle establish himself as a negative, seemingly desperate hopeful…just wating for for Cagle to make a mistake so he can jump all over it. Cagle should let Reed’s reputation speak for itself and take on the task of shaping public opinion; he’s not going to be succesful with that. Reed folks love Reed. (ask Debbie) . Rather, he should be CREATING public opinion of himself, I can only guess at the name recognition, or lack thereof for Cagle, when compared to Reed across the state. I just don’t think Cagle has a shot, unless he refocuses his attention back on himself and spends less time trying to define Ralph Reed. Come on Casey!!!

  75. jacewalden says:

    It probably sounds naive to say “go look at Cagle’s legislative website”…but here’s the kind of stuff you will see that he sponsored:

    FISCAL CONSERVATIVE:

    SR 728 United States Congress; urge to make federal tax cuts permanent

    SR 729 United States Congress; urge to abolish death tax permanently

    SR 581 CA: Ad Valorem tax millage rate/ property value; limitations on increases

    SR 163 CA: Limitation On State Taxation, Spending, And New or Expanded Activities; revenue limits; excess revenues; emergencies

    SB 8 Budget Act; continuation budget report; apply zero-base budgeting

    CHAMPION AGAINST FRIVILOUS LAWSUITS:

    SB 540 Common-Sense Consumption Act; provide limited liability for claims of obesity

    MAN OF ETHICS AND PRINCIPLE:

    SB 232 Internet Child Pornography Prevention Act; violations by internet service providers

    SB 466 Laci and Connor’s Law; unborn child developed; feticide; remove requirement

    Not all of the legislation provided above has been passed, yet. It’s proof, however, that Cagle is what he says he is, A true conservative and a man of principle.

    I agree, this is the type of stuff that Cagle needs to focus on. Let Ralph dig his own grave.

    In my last two posts, I’ve laid my reasons for supporting Casey. Reasons which can be backed up with legislation.

    Reed supporters, please do the same. Granted, it wont’ be backed up by legislation (because he’s never had an elected office) but you get the idea. Just bullet points of fact if you don’t mind. Let’s not get emotional like yesterday.

  76. SouthernConservative says:

    We all know RR’s resume, so I’ll skip that part. Ralph’s a small businessman, political strategist, conservative activist, hard worker, ambitious, and a leader. Fiscally and socially conservative. Ralph’s platform includes:

    – Research based Georgia Congestion Index

    – Use of HOT and TOT lanes

    – Traffic congestion relief fund

    – Incentives for mixed use developments

    – Use of community improvement districts

    – Encourage public private partnerships

    – Use of rapid transit and teleworking

    – Expansion of regional airports

    – An increase in LARP funding

    – Activating the Taxpayer Dividend Act

    – Reduction in Georgia’s income tax

    – Enaction of the Homeowner Protection Act

    – Creation of an Economic Growth and Tax Reform Commission

    – Create the Fiscal Responsibility Act to address spending

    – Utilize the Broadband Deployment Initiative

    – Welfare to Work programs

    – Increase exports

    – Protect our farmers

    – Continue to strengthen civil justice reform

    – Expansion of Youth Challenge Acadamies, combining boot camps with classrooms

    – Increase joint enrollment programs with high schools and technical colleges

    – Increased focus on the development of “Stay in School” programs

    – Advocacy of a “No Diploma, No Job” program

    – Reformation of the QBE formula

    – Increase local control over SPLOST funds

    – Easing restrictions on charter schools while strengthening statewide accountability standards

    – Move the focus of healthcare from acute care to wellness and preventative care

    – Using technology and a reduction in regulation and litigation to reduce healthcare costs

    – Auditing the Medicaid roles

    – Creating the Georgia Wellness Initiative

    – Increasing incentives for wellness

    – Creation and empowerment of a State Trauma Center Network

    In the words of Rudy, “Ralph knows how to get things done.”

  77. Demonbeck says:

    If Ralph knows how to get things done, then certainly, it would be no problem for any of you RR supporters to tell us exactly what he has done.

  78. jackson says:

    Well, first of all, it seems as though folks are now talking on here and actually having meaningful dialogue. I can definitely say from my end, I like it.

    I woudl like to point out a few things though:

    FALSE STATEMENT: “They haven’t done anything to point out that Cagle is a proven conservative, and I think that will be the key mistake Cagle will regret when this race is over.”

    WHY IS IT FALSE: Cagle has done numerous press releases, emails, speeches and I even got a mailing of his. He has talked about being a conservative and what he has done. If he hasnt done ENOUGH of that, or he should NOT be Negative, that is one thing, but is it a false statement to say he hasn’t.

    MYTH: Ralph Reed isnt running a negative campaign.

    WHY IT IS A MYTH: Reed has sent out emails and press releases attacking Cagle. Just because he hasnt got coverage of it, doesnt mean he isnt doing it.

    I personally believe, while platforms and vision and ideas are great, character matters. Some people dont, that is fine. But to me, as a christian and as a Republican, when are we going to demand that our leaders have a moral compass they will not compromise? It is what makes Bush so great, regardless of some of his bad poll numbers. He has a moral, ethical compass and he wil do what is right, no matter the cost. Isnt that important anymore?

    Oh, and before ya’ll start attacking, I am asking this honestly, as a question, regardless of what Ralph Reed’s character is now. Is character important and how important should it be?

  79. SouthernConservative says:

    jackson, good question, I suggest you move it up to the Friday open thread, it’s getting a little more action.

  80. tobin smith says:

    Reed:

    help elect a Republican controlled congress
    help mobilize people of faith into a significant voting block to achieve above
    help elect several Republican presidents
    help achieve a Republican majority in GA
    help elect numerous Republican candidates
    figure of national prominance
    trusted advisor to national Republican leaders

    Surely you understand that Cagle is not personally responsible for many of the bills listed above. He is considered a light weight in the Senate and always has been.

  81. Demonbeck says:

    Reed:

    help elect a Republican controlled congress – no, that was done virtually singlehandedly by Newt Gingrich assisted by an overzealous Clinton Administration

    help mobilize people of faith into a significant voting block to achieve above – ok, I’ll give you the “help” part of this, but Pat Robertson was the muscle behind everything

    help elect several Republican presidents – Several implies four, can you name four Republican Presidents that Ralph “helped” elect?

    help achieve a Republican majority in GA – Total BS, he dealt the GA GOP a crushing blow with his ’98 Scandal-akis campaign that set the party back at least 4 years.

    help elect numerous Republican candidates – I’ll give you this.

    figure of national prominance – National, yes, prominence, that is very debatable.

    trusted advisor to national Republican leaders – Trusted? Not a chance, Past Advisor? Maybe. Current Advisor? Not a chance.

    I ask again, what has Ralph accomplished? Tell me some issues/legislation he has pushed through in GA? This is not a federal election. This is not an election to replace Pat Wilson.

  82. jacewalden says:

    “Surely you understand that Cagle is not personally responsible for many of the bills listed above. He is considered a light weight in the Senate and always has been.”

    A light-weight that managed to recieve the endorsements of all but one Republican Senator.

    A light-weight that manages to recieve the endorsements of over 300 elected officials in Georgia.

    I’ll give you Ralph Reed being a figure of NATIONAL prominence. What matters though is Georgia.

    I realize that endorsements don’t mean very much to the average voter. But Ralph only has 12 endorsements by elected officials.

    Who are you calling lightweight?

    But seriously…let’s move this discussion up to the Friday Open Thread

  83. bowersville says:

    Definition of small business man?…”one who sells beads and blankets to Indians and Debbie.” No offence to the Nations.

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