Who is Ralph Reed?

Jeff Emanuel, a Senior at UGA writes this article at Townhall.com about Ralph Reed. An article about Cagle will appear Friday.

A veteran of in-the-trenches electoral politics who refers to himself as a “grassroots candidate,” Reed continuously reiterates the party’s goals for the year: reelecting Governor Sonny Perdue (the first Republican in that office since Reconstruction) and adding to the Republican majorities in both houses of Georgia’s General Assembly. He also addresses his personal goal of “establishing the position of the Lt. Governor as the philosophical ally of Gov. Perdue, rather than an opponent” (for the duration of Perdue’s term, the Lt. Governor has been Democrat Mark Taylor), and to “restore that office to effectiveness,” so that it can “be a leadership slot for conservative values.”

Both educated and articulate, the man Time magazine once called “The Right Hand of God

95 comments

  1. Bull Moose says:

    The Abramoff investigation is ongoing… there is no conclusion to it now or any time in the near future. If the investigation is over then why hasn’t Ralph dismissed his criminal defense attorney yet? In fact, if Ralph has done nothing wrong, why does he need a criminal defense attorney?

    Why won’t Ralph release his client list and disclose what services he’s been paid to do?

    And will Ralph resign from Century Strategies if he is elected? How can he serve both Georgia and corporate clients?

  2. Groseclose says:

    Bull,

    I am suprised you missed how they described Casey in the third line of the editor’s note.

  3. UGAMatthew says:

    Yeah, That’s a fairly glaring error…Cagle should be pitching a fit right about now…I would if I was him. Regardless of party leaning, any candidate should be concerned when he is tagged as a candidate from the opposing party…

  4. debbie0040 says:

    I thought it was a good article.

    It is easy to see how the opposing party line came in. After all, look at the way Cagle caved in to Gov. Roy Barnes and he wussed out and donated money to Mark Taylor.

    Cagle is in real trouble. With all the negative publicity directed at Reed and he has not pulled out in front of Reed. Reed has not yet even begun to run campaign ads. Once those start, it will not even be close.

    Reed will win by 15 – 20%. Get used to it.

  5. Maurice Atkinson says:

    “”” than the fixes instituted by Ted Kennedy’s No Child Left Behind Act””” uh, unless I’m an idiot, wasn’t No Child Left Behind the president’s benchmark?

    This is a nicely written puff piece for Ralph.

    The fact is, Reed is a drag on the whole ticket. An RNC pollster said expect a “Tsunami” in November. The backwash of Republican budgets, the lobbying scandal, oil and Iraq have set the stage for down ticket blowout if Republicans don’t get their act together.

    Reed is knee deep in this mess.

  6. debbie0040 says:

    Maurice, the pollsters said that Roy Barnes would beat Sonny by at least 12 % and they were wrong. They are wrong now.

    More BS scare tactics from the Cagle camp. Cagle knows the ONLY hope he has to defeat Reed is BS scare tactics and that Reed will be indicted. Reed did nothing wrong and will not be indicted.

    Ted Kennedy was a co-sponsor of “No Child Left Behind”. That is a failed big government program instituted by W.

  7. Maurice Atkinson says:

    So are you saying the president “caved”? hmmmm

    Not this pollster. Ignorance is not bliss. So are you saying that the RNC is full of it? Are you saying that every major “think tank” isn’t credible?

  8. debbie0040 says:

    The latest Strategic Vision Poll. Reed still leads Cagle by 6% and undecideds are 22 %.

    Again, the only polls that count are the ones on election day. Polls have been known to be wrong time and time again so you have to take them with a grain of salt.

    http://www.strategicvision.biz/political/georgia_poll_051006.htm

    Reed still leads and has high negatives but has a higher favorable rating than Cagle does.

    This is trouble for Cagle. With the onslaught of negative publicity Reed has endured, Cagle should be ahead and he isn’t.

    The Reed numbers will go up significantly once the ads start running with Reed and Bush and Cheney. The ads will run with well respected GOP figures praising Reed.

    I know of fence sitters that came over to the Reed Camp once it was revealed the Cagle gave a campaign contribution to Mark Taylor. Once person told me either Cagle lied about the reason for the contribution or he was weak. He said in either case he could not support Cagle. He would much rather take his chances with Reed.

  9. debbie0040 says:

    I am saying the W was well intentioned but misinformed. The GOP is in the mess it is today because we have strayed away from the Reagan principles of less government is the best government and decreased government spending.

    What are you referring to when you speak of major think tanks?

    The point is that the polls that say Reed will hurt the party are flat out wrong. If they were true, then Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, Gov. Haley Barbour, Bo Callaway, Nancy Coverdell, Mack Mattingly, Fred Cooper, Sadie Fields and others want to deliberately hurt the party because they whole heartedly support Reed.

    The voters have seen negative blasting of Reed by Cagle and the press at this point. What do you think they will think once Reed starts running ads of W and Cheney praising him? Of Rudy, Newt, Zell and other respected leaders praising him? They will begin to realize that Cgle has been “crying wolf” all this time about Reed to win the election.

  10. debbie0040 says:

    Ralph Reed lost the Microsoft contract because of his stand against gay rights. Iw ill be more than happy to send you the article that mentions that if you like. It was posted in another thread by me. Ralph stood by his principles and refused to bend and knew he would lose 20,000 per month MS was paying him.

    True leadership is standing your ground even when it costs you. Cagle is NOT that kind of leader. Cagle could not even stand up to Roy Barnes. What a wuss he is!!

    That is the kind of leader Republicans want.

  11. The Busdriver says:

    Gosh, they couldn’t have dumped Ralph for maybe, I don’t know, PR problems? Is it wise to have on retainer a man who has been forever linked with the greatest government accountability scandal in history? Or maybe Ralph was dumped by Microsoft for lobbying a client for whom he was working?

    That’s right. Ralph lobbying a client for whom he was working at the behest of another paying client.

    Kinda like when Ralph was working for Richard Shelby and at the same time blasting him for holding hearings on Channel One.

    You’ll recall, in 2000, Microsoft hired Ralph to push for settlement of its antitrust lawsuit. Ralph then crossed the line, as per usual, by urging Christians to write his candidate, Bush, in support of his client, Microsoft. After being blasted by the (liberal) media for this shady arrangement, Ralph apologized, saying:

    “We should have been more sensitive to possible misperceptions, and it is an error that we regret.”

    In response, Bush spokesman Scott McClelland said Ralph’s Microsoft contract “was an unpleasant surprise for us.”

  12. Why is Ralph trying to take credit for electing Sonny? He left him hanging high and dry during his election vs Barnes. Then he was fired by Sonny as Georgia GOP chairman.

    Sonny does not want Ralph’s support. Everyone who is close to the party knows this as fact.

    As for the negative press on RR. Ralph as done that to himself with little effort from the press and the CC camp. Free advertising for Casey’s name recognition.

  13. nfire says:

    Let’s see how many times Debbie says “cave”, “wuss”, “Barnes”, or talks about the ID bill on this thread…

  14. JP says:

    Deb, please dont’ send me anything. I’m a Cox supporter. I do not want another Republican governor, I think “Sonny” has been bad for Georgia.

  15. larry smith says:

    Nfire,

    I’ll guarantee you it will be a heck of a lot more times than she explains why she’s somewhere to right of Pat Buchanan on immigration and still supports Ralph Reed — a guy who called amnesty a “responsible policy” in 2004 and STILL SUPPORTS the failed White House immigration plan today.

    Of course, we also won’t hear Debbie discuss the fact that Casey Cagle opposes education mandates while Ralph Reed was out there shilling for No Child Left Behind.

    Some people just don’t realize that Ralph is a big joke and they’re the punchline.

  16. debbie0040 says:

    nfire, how many times do you Cagle supporters bring up Abramoff or Reed’s business dealings? Turn about is fair play. You think it is acceptible for Cagle supporters to be repetitive but not Reed supporters so stop being a hypocrite.

    As far as Reed and Microsoft, Reed lost the Microsoft contract because of his stance on gay rights. Read it yourselves:

    http://www.loveisloveislove.com/2005_05_01_loveisloveislove_archive.html

    http://www.13wmaz.com/news/statewide_headlines.aspx?storyid=14626

    Larry get your facts straight. Reed’s position on illegal immigration is CLEARLY defined in that article.

  17. GAWire says:

    “””The latest Strategic Vision Poll. Reed still leads Cagle by 6% and undecideds are 22 %.”””

    So, these are the latest poll numbers? What were the poll numbers 3 months ago? 6 months ago? 9 months ago? Trends, folks … they can mean more than the numbers themselves.

  18. GAWire says:

    Great … another UGA PolySci kid giving his “expert” analysis of a race/candidate. I’m sure John Fund is knocking down his door for more information.

  19. larry smith says:

    Debbie,

    I don’t dispute that Ralph says he opposes amnesty … he’d be a fool not to, and he’s no fool.

    But, he also refuses to say that he does not support the Bush Amnesty Plan he called a “responsible policy” in 2004. Instead, he still continues to insist that plan isn’t amnesty even though it is … as everyone from Johnny Isakson to Charlie Norwood said at the time.

    You can repeat whatever talking points Ralph is feeding you and keep calling Casey names as long as you want, but that doesn’t change the reality that your candidate is either lying to you, everyone else, or both.

    I really just feel sorry for you to be honest.

  20. The Busdriver says:

    The apocalypse must be upon us. Debbie is citing vile, anti-Bush comedian Margaret Cho’s lesbian blog to substantiate her claim that Microsoft dumped Ralph because of corporate disagreement over gay rights employment legislation.

    Debbie, if the AJC is a liberal publication, what does that make Margaret Cho’s lesbian blog?

    Debbie, do you believe that Ralph argued with Microsoft over their stance on the gay employment legislation? If you do, you don’t read the news. Ralph never disagrees with clients that pay their bills.

  21. Michael C says:

    Do I want the kind of leader whose answer to every scandal that surrounds him is “Had I known”.
    Do I want the kind of leader who places himself in the shadier parts of politics?
    Do I want the kind of leader that will openly lie about an opponent just to win?
    Do I want the kind of leader that just because he has a big rolodex of national GOP figures thinks he should be LT. Governor?
    Do I want the kind of leader who does not hold Christian principals to his core?

    My answer no.

  22. Philly says:

    Bus driver, you are the one that is vile.

    Debbie gave you proof to back up the fact that Reed was dismissed from Microsoft because of his stance against gay rights and you are seeting that she was able to provide proof.

    Obviously, the mis-information being given out by the Cagle campaign is not factual. Reed does disagree with his clients and is willing to make sacrifices for his strong stands on issues.

    Larry, Reed was speaking on behalf of the Bush-Cheney Campaign when he spoke about illegal immigration in 2004. A complete idiot could understand he was just articulating Bush’s position.

    Cagle is the admitted liar not Reed.

  23. SouthernConservative says:

    While Casey Cagle is being blasted by conservatives for supporting Democratic gubernatorial candidate Mark Taylor, Ralph Reed is being kicked to the curb for opposing pro – liberal policies. This is the same guy who was arrested back in the 80s for protesting in front of abortion clinics. This man is the leader that Georgia voters are hoping for: someone who is a strong conservative voice who stands for the same issues in 2006 that he stood for in 1986, and who will continue to be a strong figurehead for our conservative convictions, regardless of the amount of mud thrown against him. Voters prefer this type of leader over someone who has missed votes on proprty rights, left early from committee meetings on stem cell research, and voted against bills that would insure better laws on illegal immigration.

    Everywhere I’ve been over the last several months, people are becoming increasingly fed up with our leadership in Washington, and their refusal to lead in the issues that are so important to conservative Republicans. Their thirst is for politicians who will lead, make the right decisions, and be up front about what they believe, regardless of what the MSM says. Even Peggy Noonan published a column today that indicated that she would not be a bit surprised if there was quite a bit of shakeup in the next election cycle or so.

    Let’s talk about those poll numbers.

    18. Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Ralph Reed, a Republican candidate for Lieutenant Governor? (Republicans only)
    Favorable 40%
    Unfavorable 45%
    Undecided 15%

    19. Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Casey Cagle, a Republican candidate for Lieutenant Governor? (Republicans only)
    Favorable 39%
    Unfavorable 19%
    Undecided 42%

    20. If the Republican primary for Lieutenant Governor was held today, whom would you vote for Ralph Reed or Casey Cagle? (Republicans only)
    Ralph Reed 42%
    Casey Cagle 36%
    Undecided 22%

    21. For the 2008 Republican Presidential Nomination whom would you support (Republicans Only)?
    Rudy Giuliani 28%
    John McCain 24%
    Newt Gingrich 13%
    George Allen 9%
    Mitt Romney 5%
    Bill Frist 2%
    Rick Santorum 1%
    George Pataki 1%
    Chuck Hagel 1%
    Undecided 16%

    Here’s the natural conclusion. Most voters polled listened to the question and responded: “Who the heck is Casey Cagle?” Outside Hall county and the AJC coverage area, no one knows who he is. Voters have a distinct tendency to vote within their realm of knowledge…that is to say, they’ll vote for a name they recognize over a name they do NOT recognize, regardless if their is a hazey negative surrounding that name recognition. A vast majority more voters know Reed than know Cagle, regardless of what they think of him. Not to mention the fact that the majority of Georgians polled are voting for Rudy Guliani, who is coming to town for Ralph next week.

    I said it before, and I’ll say it again: the Cagleites can’t spin that event, no matter how hard they try.

  24. The Busdriver says:

    I’m vile? Oh, snap!

    Uhh, Debbie’s proof was a gay blog and a wire story out of Arizona. Not exactly “all the news that’s fit to print.”

    In fact, one thing I promise you you will never hear on any credible news outlet: “We’ve got a breaking story coming to us right now from Margaret Cho’s blog.”

    Can you provide an example in which Ralph refused to go along with his corporate clients? Show me something at Microsoft, Channel One, the Mariana Islands, statehood for Puerto Rico, or working for business interests (and against human rights) in China.

  25. The Busdriver says:

    Did you just post the tab that shows Ralph’s unfavs are higher than his favs?
    In Ralph’s own words, “don’t repeat the negatives.”

    Bright team you got over there at Reed Central.

  26. SouthernConservative says:

    Haha, I was just sitting here and re-reading my post: why the bloody hell am I citing a poll from pollsters who can’t even get the questions grammatically correct?

    And yes, Maurice, I think the RNC is about as full of it as you are.

  27. nfire says:

    Am I the only one who sees the humor in this great quote from Philly:

    “Reed does disagree with his clients and is willing to make sacrifices for his strong stands on issues.

    Larry, Reed was speaking on behalf of the Bush-Cheney Campaign when he spoke about illegal immigration in 2004. A complete idiot could understand he was just articulating Bush’s position.”

  28. SouthernConservative says:

    Well, Busdriver, I reckon if I worked for Ralph I’d be getting eaten up right now, but seeing as I don’t, that’s not a problem. Yup, I sure did post a poll showing that: if you’d read the whole post, you’d see the rationale why.

  29. The Busdriver says:

    “This man (Reed) is the leader that Georgia voters are hoping for: someone who is a strong conservative voice who stands for the same issues in 2006 that he stood for in 1986,”

    That’s a gas.

    By the way, since you guys were throwing around the illegal immigration thing, I thought I’d put this out there. This appeared in National Journal, the godfather of conservative thought, and a publication whose conservative street cred is not open to dispute.

    The article is entitled, “Overriding elites: political leaders who defend current levels of immigration substitute their own will for that of their constituents.”

    And here’s what they said about Ralph.

    “Similarly, Ralph Reed may have turned a number of Republican votes in the House last year with his last-minute letter from the Christian Coalition advising against chain-migration reform.”

    In short, Ralph wrote a letter to Republican members of the House of Representatives urging them to oppose legislation strengthening our immigration laws.

    You cannot say that he was merely articulating Christian Coalition’s position. You’re already saying the same thing about the Bush campaign. Furthermore, Ralph WAS Christian Coaltion.

    Please dispute this quote and the publication it appeared in. I can’t wait.

  30. The Busdriver says:

    I can’t do this anymore. I’m finished. I’m retiring for today. It’s almost too easy. Showing the Reed people up is like taking candy from a baby, and then routing the candy through a tax group in DC, and then sending the candy to a child molester in Virginia.

  31. caroline says:

    Oh, I forgot about Reed’s ties to the child pornographer. That will play well in the GE, won’t it? /snark

  32. larry smith says:

    And, while Ralph is busy doing whatever it is he does, here’s what Casey has done.

    Debbie and Philly … can you point out anything remotely similar Ralph Reed has done to make anyone’s life better in Georgia?

    Gainesville, GA — Senator and Lt. Governor candidate Casey Cagle issued a statement today urging continued shifts toward a fairer, simpler tax system in Georgia. Cagle’s remarks were based partly on job start numbers from the Georgia Department of Economic Development following enactment of dramatically simplified corporate income tax in Georgia.

    In the 2005 legislative session Cagle — who chairs the Senate Finance Committee — led the development and enactment of a new Single Factor corporate income tax system in Georgia. This new system shifts taxation solely to sales and replaced an old system that also taxed companies for adding new employees and expanding their facilities in Georgia.

    According to the latest job start numbers in Georgia, there has been a major increase in the year over year period following enactment of Single Factor. For example, the number of jobs created in Georgia for 4th quarter of 2005 jumped 167.1% and increased 36.3% in the 1st quarter of 2006 (based on year to year comparisons). All told, businesses investments in Georgia increased over $700 million in these two quarters alone.

    “While numerous factors play into decisions by companies to come to Georgia, there is no doubt that taxing businesses for creating jobs and expanding their facilities here is counterproductive. As the national debate over tax reform continues, there is no reason we in Georgia should not be leading the way on enacting a fairer, simpler system that encourages investment,” said Cagle.

    “As a Georgia employer, I can say without a doubt that taxing businesses for creating jobs and expanding is about as wrongheaded a policy as we could have. By enacting single factor, Casey helped create an environment where businesses like mine can grow and flourish,” added Allen Rice, CEO of Savannah Luggage Works in Vidalia, Georgia.

    Cagle pledged to make continued movement toward enacting a fairer, simpler system a top priority in Georgia, saying “thanks to the work of leaders like Congressman John Linder and Neal Boortz, Georgians have a deep appreciation for the principle that a simpler, fairer tax system benefits everyone. I am committed to relentlessly pressing for this goal in our state’s fiscal policy.”

    ####

  33. Jack S says:

    Who is Ralph Reed?
    A sell out who will compromise anything if the price is right.

    A congenital liar who can’t even tell the truth about where he was born and grew up.

    A Republican Bill Clinton who makes himself out to be the victim of everything even though his problems are directly attributable to his own hypocrisy.

    A fraud who claims his only motivation is moral values when his own emails show his only motivation is making money.

    A poser who drives a leased pick up truck for his campaign vehicle and wears cowboy boots (cmon!). I have no idea if the boots are leased or not. I would bet they are.

    A pretty poor businessman who shows no clear revenue sources outside of his lobbying business and lives in a gated country club whose annual dues amount to more than the LG’s salary – so how exactly will Ralph pay for his kids to go to college if he wins?

    That’s Ralph Reed.

  34. debbie0040 says:

    Bus Driver, please provide the link and DATE that story appeared in the National Journal so that we may read the entire article and know when the story was written. When I post something written in the press I do you the courtesy of providing the link so you may check out the context and date. You Cagle supporters do have a tendancy to mislead about the facts.

    Reed has great vision for Georgia.

    Cagle voted against the Driver’s License bill under the Barnes regime that would have saved tax dollars. Cagle voted to kill Tort Reform in 2004 while accepting money from Trial Lawyers. Cagle introduced legislation that wouild take away property owner’s right to sue if they lived near a rendering plant.

    Cagle has a record of caving in under pressure and donating to Democrats.

  35. debbie0040 says:

    Reed has vision. Cagle has rhetoric.

    A true leader will stand by his principles no matter what it costs him. Reed did that on gay rights and lost the Microsoft account. Cagle is such a wuss that he could not even stand up to Roy Barnes and was so cowardly he donated money to Mark Taylor.

    Cagle has a record of standing up when it does not cost him anything but not when it does.

  36. larry smith says:

    Debbie,

    All you’ve done in response is call Casey a few more names. You still haven’t pointed out anything Ralph Reed has actually done other than getting fired by Microsoft.

    How does Ralph Reed getting fired by Microsoft positively impact the life of anyone in Georgia?

    I mean, don’t get me wrong … I’m glad they fired him, but why should I care that he has to wait another year to buy that timeshare in Aspen he’s had his eye on?

  37. debbie0040 says:

    Reed help elect Saxby Chambliss and other Republicans while serving as Georgia GOP Chairman. Reed helped elect and re-elect George W Bush.

  38. nfire says:

    YESSSS!!!! Debbie held out for as long as she could muster, but she brought the fire those last two posts: “wuss”, “Barnes” (twice), “cave”, and she mentioned the ID bill!

    We should have a Debbie drinking game where any time she says one of those things you have to drink.

  39. larry smith says:

    Philly is fun too … turns out everyone who doesn’t like Ralph is a “complete idiot” and Casey Cagle is an “admitted liar.”

    Now, maybe I missed the debate where Casey stood up and said “I am a liar,” although that’s probably because I am a “complete idiot.”

    And this all leads me to two questions:

    1) Are Philly and Debbie the same person?

    2) Are Philly and Debbie 12?

  40. Michael C says:

    SouthernConservative, a vote for Reed is a vote for the same type of Republican you are so fed up with in Washington. Reed is the establishment Republican in this race. The type that seeks power over principle. this goes for you too Debbie. The same Republicans who abandoned conservative candidates in the 2004 election and went for the less conservative candidate.

    Pat Toomey vs. Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania)
    Herman Cain vs. Johnny Isakson (Georgia)
    Tom Coburn vs. Kirk Humphreys (Oklahoma)
    Mike Miller vs. Lisa Murkowski (Alaska)
    Bob Schaffer vs. Pete Coors (Colorado)
    Michael Benjamin vs. Howard Mills (New York)

    Only Tom Coburn overcame the NRSC favorites and went on to victory. And he is now the the conservative champion in Washington. In a national party of Reagan-claiming moderates, only Coburn measures up. The rest are like Reed, out for their own interest.

  41. larry smith says:

    My Debbie/Philly impression:

    You Cagle supporters are hipocrites. You say Ralph Reed commited a crime. You don’t include a link.

    I dated a guy who went to elementary school with Cagle. Roy Barnes took his lunch money and he caved.

    Casey Cagle is a coward lying idiot hypocrite who gave his lunch money to a fat meanie named Mark.

    You will see. Ralph Reed will lead our brave soldiers into Austria-Hungary and unite the Fatherland. Just wait.

  42. debbie0040 says:

    No , Philly and I are not the same person. Are you and Nfire the same person? Or is Nfire Demonbeck?

  43. jacewalden says:

    I can’t believe I have waited this long to chime in on a Ralph Reed post:

    Debbie,

    If you knew anything about leadership, you would know that being a leader means making compromises for the greater good. It doesn’t mean being a bull-headed partisan stalwart like Ted Kennedy. According to your definition of leadership though, Ted is a great leader. The fact that Cagle got anything passed at all under Democratic leadership is a sign of leadership. I’m sure he had to compromise…I’m sure he had to back down–but at least he got something passed.

    Now on to your bedfellow, Mr. Reed. Can you name one vote where Ralph Reed has had to make the tough choice? How did Ralph vote on the emminent domain bill? How did Ralph vote on the Voter ID Bill? Oh wait…that’s right, Ralph has never had to make the tough vote because he’s never held an elected office! Damn, that must mean that Reed can SAY all he wants to about “traditional conservative values” but until he actually has to make decision/compromises his record is unproven at best.

    Here’s the SAME OPEN CHALLENGE I have posted on every single Ralph Reed thread:

    If anyone can give one redeeming quality about Ralph Reed that cannot be refuted by fact or logic, then I will forever stop speaking bad about Reed.

    Oh, Debbie and Philly, let me make it easier for you two as well….Here are “qualities” that will recieve automatic rejections due to the fact that they are untrue:

    1. Ralph Reed is a proven leader
    2. Ralph Reed knows what the people of Georgia want
    3. Ralph Reed is not a crook

    So, there it is. Have fun.

  44. larry smith says:

    Interpreting a regulation in the same way a majority of the campaigns in Georgia do is not lying. If you interpret it differently, that’s fine … I’m not calling you a liar.

    Saying you’re not being paid by gambling interests and then having your fees laundered through a shell group run by a convicted child molestor? Now, that is lying.

    And thanks for the three stooges reference. You’re making my point for me quite nicely.

  45. debbie0040 says:

    Jace Walden, Cagle voted with 27 Democrats and Roy Barnes against a GOP sponsored driver’s license bill. That is not compromise, that is full scaled surrender!

    Reed has not been in any position to vote on any bill.

    Using your logic Jace Walden, I guess you voted for Vice President Al Gore over Bush in 2000 because Bush was not in a position to affect national policy and Gore was.

  46. larry smith says:

    I wasn’t aware that they let the Governor vote in the State Senate, Debbie.

    You should tell Sonny right away … I’m sure he’d find your interpretation of the Constitution as useful as everything else you contribute.

  47. jacewalden says:

    Debbie, Debbie, Debbie,

    First, I am glad to see that you have acknowledged that I am using logic.

    Unfortunately, it’s logic that you misunderstand. I could care less about effecting national policy. Hell, I’ll concede that Ralph Reed as head of the Christian Coalition has probably had a greater effect on national policy than Cagle (not necessarily in a good way though).

    G.W. Bush was an elected official! When he ran against Gore, he had the experience in making tough decisions (it’s called using the veto pen or the approval pen). Reed hasn’t even had to do that!

    Just because a Republican sides with a Democrat every now and then, it doesn’t make him less of a Republican. Is Bush less of a Republican because Ted Kennedy co-sponsored No Child Left Behind? Of course not.

    Sometimes, Debbie, being a leader means taking an unpopular route. Maybe Cagle’s constituents didn’t want to see that Drivers License Bill Pass…voting the way your consituents want you to…what a concept!

    And I do appreciate the fact that you admitted Ralph Reed’s lack of elected office experience. Thanks.

  48. debbie0040 says:

    You and disagree with what makes a strong leader. You say they have to be an elected official, I say they have to have vision, stand my their convictions and be a fighter.

    “Ahnold” never had been an elected official and he is now Governor of California.

    Rudy never held an elected position until he was elected Mayor of New York.

    I think Reed had a positive effect on national policy you and I disgree yet again. No suprise and it is not a suprise that you are supporting the more moderate of the two.

    Cagle sided with Barnes more than now and again.

    Cagle’s constituents did want to see the bill pass. He was just too scared to stand up to Gov. Barnes because Barnes kept a report card.

    Cagle’s constiuents wanted Cagle to speak out against the Barnes Education Package and the Hall County
    Town Hall Meeting and Cagle would not because he let Barnes intimidate him. He is a wuss and coward.

  49. jacewalden says:

    OMFG! I’m going to kill myself! I feel like I’m arguing with my 10 year-old sister!!!

    I don’t think elected experience is necessary in all instances, Debbie. And yes, I typically do favor more moderate candidates.

    It just so happens…in this instance…that elected experience is an point to consider. You know, we are talking about the Lt. Governor slot–president of the Senate. Cagle knows how the Senate operates. He’s been in the trenches. He’s had to cut deals at times, and take stances at times. The closest Ralph has came to being in the Senate is probably on a tourist trip to get his picture taken with the Lt. Governor. Maybe he should try being a Senator first–learing the system–learning that you can’t always be a bull-head partisan stalwart (as Debbie would suggest).

    You’re buddy Ralph is the one who has let people push him around…

    Are you even familiar with the circumstances in which he stepped down as head of the Christian Coalition?

    He was about to be investigated for MONEY LAUNDERING (something he would definately find profitable later on). In exhange for his stepping down, the investigation was dropped.

    If Ralph Reed had nothing to hide, then why did he let some “investigator” push him around? Is it because he is the true coward? I think so.

  50. Rusty says:

    This thread reminds me of the time, when I was about 10 or 11, that I was swimming around the Little Hooch at White Water and saw a turd floating in the water. I was like three feet away from it before I noticed it. Had I noticed it from further away, I would have been able to get out of the Hooch at one of the eight or so exit steps. Alas, because it was in between exit points, I had to swim right by it.

  51. debbie0040 says:

    I feel like I am arguing with a brick wall.

    I can certainly understand you supporting Cagle if you lean toward more moderate candidates. Cagle is certainly the more moderate of the two.

    Let’s see proof of wrong doing by Reed at Christian Coalition.

    You only believe someone should have elective experience first because it fits your selected candidate. I think Cagle’s experience is detrimental. It shows his weakness.
    There are plenty of elected officials that did not cower to Roy Barnes. Rep. Bobby Franklin is one example.

    I think it is a plus not to be an insider or part of the state government status quo for a Lt. Governor. He can really come in and shake things up.

  52. jacewalden says:

    Debbie, I have nothing but love for you.;)

    Unfortunatley, I have to go to work now, so I won’t be able to debate you until tomorrow. But I can see your leaning toward Reed if you favor ultra right-wing conservatism.

    I’ll leave you with this:

    Let’s see your proof of any good-doing by Reed.

    And, as always, the Open Challenge:

    If anyone can list one redeeming quality about Ralph Reed that can’t be refuted by fact or logic, I will forever shut my mouth about Reed.

  53. debbie0040 says:

    Larry, I have never had to choose a surgeon but would want one that would fight and not give up.

    Jace Walden, I am not ultra right wing but consider myself a Reagan Republican.

    Reed helped elect Sen. Chambliss and many other Republican candidates. Reed helped awakened the sleeping giant of Christian Conservative voters which helped elect many Republicans to office. Including W.

  54. UGAMatthew says:

    GAWire,
    Devaluing is usually most effective when you establish credibility yourself. For example, knowing that the prefix “poly” means many and is incorrect when paired with “sci” if you’re referring to political science, in which case the correct term is “Poli-Sci.”

    Petty, I know-but nevertheless worth throwing out there for you so you don’t come of as, say, ignorant.

  55. flamingmoderate says:

    UGAMatthew,

    Accusing someone else of being ignorant is most effective when the accuser himself is not ignorant. Oh, and name calling is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Just some food for thought. It might come in handy while your struggling to make a “D” in Political Science 1101!

  56. Jack S says:

    Bobby Franklin is a jackass, not an effective leader or a model for anyone who aspires to be one.

    Oh wait, that’s Ralph Reed too! Amazing coincidence.

  57. jsm says:

    Aside from all the back and forth debating over whether Reed or Cagle is the bigger liar and which is the better fighter for the conservative cause, I see this race in this light:

    If Ralph Reed is elected, he will bring scandal to our state government. Scandal is never effective in making positive change.

    If Ralph Reed really cared about Georgia, he would back out of the elective political arena until investigations and accusations are past, or at least dismissed as irrelevant.

    I hope he is cleared of any wrongdoing, but if he is implicated and found guilty of any crime as an elected official in Georgia, our state will suffer for it.

    Reed should pack it in for now and come back strong another day.

  58. UGAMatthew says:

    Flaming,
    I’d love for you to attempt to prove ignorance on my part. I was merely correcting a mistake- admittedly slightly facetious in my approach to tact. As for your “scoundrel” statement, I acknowledged the pettiness of the remark. However, we should all know how to correctly abbreviate Political Science. And I just adore your accusation of my struggling to make a “D” in Political Science 1101. I really don’t know where begin besides to say that the first day in class, the professor made it clear her class discussed Political Science and not Many Science. I won’t begin dropping my GPA on here. And you know, I just can’t help but to call you out on your incorrect use grammar. It really does not help your case for arguing my ignorance when you cannot employ correct grammar. Next time, try “you’re” as opposed to “your” when attempting to contract “you are.” “It may come in handy while you’re trying to make”…anything sound intelligent!

    Just some food for thought.

  59. Jeff Emanuel says:

    For the record, there was a brief editorial oversight when the piece was put up last night, and the Editor’s Note did, in fact, mistakenly refer to Cagle as “Reed’s Democratic opponent.” This was caught by both myself and another editor, and was corrected. It was, as UGAMatthew has called it, a “clerical oversight.” All involved know that both candidates are Republican.

  60. nfire says:

    It’s a grammar fight! Better watch out flaming – he’s threatening you with his GPA!

  61. rugby_fan says:

    Hey UGAMatthew:

    “I just can’t help but to call you out on your incorrect use grammar.”

    ‘Nuff said! ;D

    All in jest my friend. All in jest.

  62. Bill Simon says:

    I think Debbie and Bart Brannon should hook-up, have kids, and teach them to act as snarling, snapping dogs just like they do every time their favorite punching bag’s name is mentioned.

  63. Bill Simon says:

    Rusty…harking back to your experience when you were 10 or 11, are you certain that wasn’t a Baby Ruth bar that someone dropped in the water? 🙂

  64. jacewalden says:

    Wow,

    I come back from work and the post has gone from a Ralph Reed/Casey Cagle slug fest, to a high school English class.

    Flaming and UGA Matthew, you both sound like a couple of nerds on the playground arguing over how many original Star Trek episodes were in the first season. All we’re lacking from your “intellectual” argument is a little bit of Dungeons & Dragons lingo.

    Flaming, by resorting to calling UGA Matthew a scoundrel, you violate your own rule “name calling is the last refuge of a soundrel”.

    UGAMatthew, by resorting to grammar checks, it just makes you sound petty and immature.

    You should both apologize for subjecting the rest of us to your inane arguments. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

    Now Debbie, if you consider yourself a “Reagan Republican” the last person you should want in office is someone who, as you say, helped get W elected. “W” is a fiscal liberal and a social authoritarian. He’s basically left the Reagan legacy in the dust.

    Also, your definition of “conservative” needs tweaking. You claim to be a “Reagan” Republican, but from all your banter on here, you have established yourself as a Neo-Con. One of those “conservatives” who are more interested in pushing their religious views on others than they are looking out for the fiscal condition of the country.

    True Conservatives, are fiscal conservatives but moderate socially. I submit to you that you are not a “Reagan” republican. And neither is Ralph Reed.

  65. Maurice Atkinson says:

    Rusty I think I can relate. I recall about 15 plus years ago we had dinner at my cousin’s home. They were big hog farmers. After dinner I took my boys to the hog lot to show them the hogs. My youngest son, who must have been 5 or 6, started roaming around outside of the barn. I heard him screaming. When we found him he was knee deep in crap. It ruined his clothes and new shoes. We had the kid bath for 2 hours and he still stunk. It took days for the scent to wear off. It was hilarious.

    Currently, Ralph is knee deep in it but it’s not so humorous. It’s sad when someone presents themselves with high ideals only to be proven they were only manipulating people. When the people wake up begin to see they were duped and have to reconcile themselves with truth.

    Senator Cagle has never presented himself as anything other than a decent and honest human being. Perhaps to some his $1,000 donation was not a politically astute move, but it hardly is as appalling as what he did to Senator Shelby and his schemes with his cohort Jack Abramoff. My momma always told me birds of a feather flock together.

    For the grammarian,,,,

    I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was
    Rdanieg. The?
    phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at
    Cmabrigde?
    Uinervtisy, it dseno’t mtaetr in what oerdr the ltteres in a word
    Are, the?
    olny iproamtnt tihng is that the frsit and last ltteer be in the
    Rghit?
    pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it whotuit
    A?
    pboerlm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by?
    istlef, but the word as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas
    Tghuhot?
    slpeling was ipmorantt!

  66. UGAMatthew says:

    Jace, I don’t think she’d get to the 2nd sentence.
    Debbie, one task for you-
    We’ve been discussing vision and Ralph’s vision, which I agree contains some fantastic goals and benchmarks for the state. He really does have sound policy proposals. Convince me that Ralph will see his agenda through as he attempts his ascension to the Oval Office. I’m still open in this race, but seems to me that Cagle may have more interest in the state than does Reed, given Cagle’s (at least) non-apparent desire to conquer America; so convince me. And please try not exhaust all the previous arguments, convince me Ralph is in this race for the state, wholly, not that he is a Saint on High.

  67. bowersville says:

    JACE,
    You’ll have to wait until tommorrow. All 12 year olds are in bed and don’t have their fairy tale talking points until after “night-night.”

  68. BernieT633 says:

    Other than the platform and title the Lt. Governor has to make sure the Governor goes to the doctor. Does anyone really think Eric Johnson is just going to hand over power . . . especially to Ralph who he doesn’t support.

    Just something to think about

  69. Bill Simon says:

    I suspect that Eric Johnson would cave-in to pressure from the Coalition were Ralph to win. It’s amazing that all the CC has to do is whistle sometimes to get these holy “senators” to heel.

  70. bowersville says:

    Bernie,
    I do not expect Eric to hand over anything to Ralph. If Ralph by some unfortunate reason wins this election, I strongly believe Eric & the senate will keep him in the corner as they have Taylor.

  71. bowersville says:

    But Bill Simon has a point. Will Eric cave and becaome a “wuss,” “cave-in,” give up to “pressure” type of republican that Reed supportors claim Cagle is? He might! Eric, come out of the clost and tell us who you support!

  72. McCain-Rice\'08 says:

    Wow 86 Comments, this is a heated race no doubt! Ralph Reed is one of those people you have to define yourself, all of us have a different oppinion of him.
    Mine is that the man is a profesional politician, he is more concerned about winning this race because he knows he must if he wants to be Governor (President is a stretch of the imagination).. he is more conserned about winning than he is about the Good of the Republican Party. I think if he wins in July, he will loose in November…the Democrats are rallying behind Jim Martin and they have a lot of stuff they can tell the voters about Ralph Reed. I was a Reed Supporter since he enterd this race, and switched back in January because it finally hit me…Reed would be a negative effect on the party. He would not only loose, he would bring out alot of angry democrats to make sure they vote against him, and that could possibly significantly hurt Governor Perdue. I simply cant trust Ralph Reed, Ive read up on both candidates…and Ralph Reed scares me, he was corrupt since college and with the Jack Abramoff case not even in full sing yet..you know that Reed is in for it. He is a good public speaker no doubt, but he cant connect on an individual basis like Cagle can…Cagle has the trust and support of the Republican State Senators and will have all the resources to be a great Lt. Gov. The Reed campaign continues to go negative on Cagle as an attempt to stop the flow of Reed supporters to the other side, but this is simply an act of desperation. Rudy Guliani may be keynoting a Reed event, but even the NATIONAL JOURNAL said that if he were to run in ’08..this little photo opp with Reed may devesestate the campaign early on.

  73. bowersville says:

    M/R 08
    We agree, but where is Eric Johnson on this? Does Eric agree to keep Reed in the corner as the current senate rules require of Taylor? I don’t want to put Eric on the spot, but as you can tell. I don’t want Reed to put his “family values on me.”

  74. flamingmoderate says:

    Bowersville,

    Although I can’t give you the answer you’re looking for, I think Eric Johnson will do whatever looks best for Eric Johnson.

    Take this year’s budget, for instance. All of the debate and fiery rhetoric between Johnson and Glen Richardson (Speaker of the House). All of that posturing amounted to little more than the opening shots in the 2010 Governor’s race…

    I know neither candidate has announced–but damn. It’s pretty obvious to me. Johnson will do whatever makes him look best in the eyes of the voters. If voters end up hating Reed as Lt. Governor, then we will see Eric attempt to keep him in the corner. If they love Reed, well, I think we’ll see a lot more Johnson/Reed photo ops.

    While it would benefit Johnson more if Cagle won, I still think he would back Reed if it came down to it.

  75. BernieT633 says:

    Flamingmoderate,

    You make a good point, rumor has it that Eric is planning on returning next year as a regular senator not pro-tem; and has handpicked David Shafer to take his place. Means two things- Eric doesn’t want to be governor and Reed stays in the corner. Also think of the pressure Glenn Richardson will put on the Senate to marginalize Reed- although he won’t endorse Casey we know where his opinions fall.

    Also if there is a coalition of Senators who want to give Reed any power by way of the rules, I’d belive the Senate Cagle Caucus and the democrats would fight to defeat any such rules– I think the dems see Reed as a much bigger threat than any single senator.

    Either way- Reed will be a lame-duck Lt. Governor if elected; The Senate has taken power and will never heel- As I remember Ralph only has one senate endorsement.

  76. Bill Simon says:

    Bernie,

    Ah, but you forget, or, perhaps you’re not aware of the strange hold Lobbyist Linda Hamrick has over Eric Johnson, Tommie Wiliams, Bill Hamrick (no relation), and others. Maybe the CC won’t be able to get these whipped boys to heel, but Hamrick can if Walphie gets elected.

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