76 comments

  1. jackson says:

    Erick, I dont think you should do these open threads. I think controversy and debate of the issues is important. I think if there is something to talk about, either that Cagle or Reed is doing, you should do a paragraph or two and let everyone duke it out if they want. If they dont, they dont have to read it. I think it is much better in the long run to make the “news” the “news” weather it is dominated by Reed v. Cagle, Stephens v. Handel, or whomever/whatever else. Doing empty threads because some people are sick of hearing about it is kind of lame in my opinion. I love the site, and this is not a criticism of you, but please just let it take its own course. Things like “Ralph Reed did a press release on such and such” or “Cagle sponsored a bill on such and such” are things that people can really focus on and debate the merits of. Anyway, think I made my point. Thanks.

  2. JulieSMI says:

    Jackson nailed it, Erick. There are things that both campaigns are doing that are worth mentioning and allowing the wars to commence. these open threads are just allowing folks to vent and that’s not really what this is about.

    And for those tired of hearing about how bad Ralph is, blame Ralph. he did it to himself.

  3. debbie0040 says:

    Ralph made bad choices but the Cagle campaign has offered nothing other than attacks and I am not RR.

    The more attacks on Ralph, the more steadfast my support is so bring it on. Just make sure if there are accusations you can provide proof.

  4. Erick says:

    Julie and Jackson, you are absolutely right. And we’ll get back to doing that, but PP needs a break from all the battering any of us who dare write about this topic get.

  5. JulieSMI says:

    Erick, I can understand that, but why don’t you just post up the press releases and let folks talk about it? I’m not saying you should write your opinions. I’m jsut saying that ignoring what the campaigns are doing isn’t helping.

  6. jackson says:

    I am really excited about Debbie posting on here. Her comments and my rebuttals are going to make me look like a genius!

    “Cagle campaign has offered nothing other than attacks” – Actually that is not true. In keeping with your later statement that “Just make sure if there are accusations you can provide proof,” I am doing what you are failing to do.

    Check out both site, caseycagle.com and ralphreed.com. Can you tell me which candidate has his stand on the issues posted? Hint: it is not the one whos name rhymes with Greed.

    In addition, if you are upset about attacks Debbie, talk to Ralph Reed. He is a pro. You have been an activist since 76, so you know what he did to take down Clint Day with Mitch Skandalakis. Even more, Reed is a campaign consultant and has attack dozens of Republicans. Him complaining about negative attacks is laughable.

    Speaking of laughable, did ya’ll see the Reed press release that Cagle was hiding behind political consultants. Ha Ha ha ha. That was really funny. A man who has litterally made millions as a political consultant, saying a candidate is hiding behind his consultants. Talk about desparate.

  7. Bull Moose says:

    Erick, healthy and lively debate is drawing people across the state to your website. I would think you’d want that.

    Don’t cheapen it by simply treating the hallmark races of the primary as some sort of childish matchup.

    There are HUGE differences here between Cagle and Reed that warrant discussion and debate.

    If the Reed camp can’t handle that, then they need to do a better job of selling their candidate.

    Blogs and netroots are here to stay and are only going to grow stronger. Be proud of the fact that, in Georgia, you are a pioneer and started this site…

    I say let the debate carry forward.

  8. topazpilot says:

    Ralph Reed also isn’t exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Some time ago, I asked him, via email, about his comment “I want to be invisible. I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know it’s over until you’re in a body bag,” and what was his meaning. I’ve give the lil’ guy credit, he actually replied back.

    “i’ve stated years ago that I regretted that choice of words. I was showing a little youthful enthusiasm after a campaign victory. What I meant was that grassroots work does not try to throw the long pass, but focuses on a running game of 2 to 3 yard gains.”

    Whatever that means.

  9. John Konop says:

    The questions about Ralph Reed is not black and white. For anyone to deny Ralph Reed did not to do great things for the Republican party in Georgia is just wrong. For anyone to call Casey Cagle a liberal and deny his contribution to Georgia is just wrong. Yet for any of us to deny that the K Street, lobbyist driven bills are not bankrupting our country and driving distrust among voters for all races is not being honest. The real issue is who will stand up and represent the traditional Republican values like less Government, fiscal and personal responsibility,local control and not sell out to K street lobbyist.Neal Boortz called for everyone on his radio show to kick out Republicans in U.S. house to send a message to the party. That is the wake up call.

  10. debbie0040 says:

    The only desparation I see is from the Cagle camp. Reed’s positions are well known and highly publicized.

    http://www.ralphreed.com/v2/inthenews.asp

    As for looking like a genius, you have not rebutted a thing nor provided proof. Cagle drew first blood as far as the attacks go. Reed waited a time to respond.

    Cagle’s emails have been used to mostly attack Reed. I know, I receive Cagle’s emails.

    Reed proposes something then Cagle proposes something similar months later. Case in point:Medicaid Audit
    http://www.ralphreed.com/v2/inthenews_details.asp?newsid=16
    Date August 31,2005

    http://www.caseycagle.com/news_detail.cfm?news_id=28 Date March 7, 2006

    Property rights band wagon:

    http://www.ralphreed.com/v2/inthenews_details.asp?newsid=27 Date Feb. 1, 2006

    http://www.caseycagle.com/news_detail.cfm?news_id=32 Date: March 24,2006

    If Cagle was so concerned that only citizens legally residing within Georgia’s borders have access to taxpayer funded benefits, did he vote against a 2002 bill identifying non citizens on Georgia Driver’s Licenses? Cagle was one of two or three GOP State Senators voting with 27 Democrats against that bill.
    Cagle did not want to defy Roy Barnes because Barnes kept a “report card” on the legislators.

  11. jackson says:

    Debbie, I have a list for you:

    Weekly Standard

    World Magazine

    Wall Street Journal

    John Fund

    David Brooks

    Marvin Olasky

    Matt Conetteti

    Jim Wooten

    HINT: All are respected contributors of the conservative, right-wing media, and all have significantly challenged or criticized Reeds Misdeeds of Greed.

  12. debbie0040 says:

    You don’t like a Reed supporter; much less a woman standing up to you so don’t give me that bs. You have not refuted nor provided proof of a thing. Reed’s position on issues is very well publicized.
    As for the attacks, Cagle drew first blood and Reed did wait for a time before he responded back. Did Reed ever call for a candidate to withdraw for the good of the party? Did he ever publicly make the statement that a candidate would drag down the GOP? I would love to see evidence of that. That was said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980.

    I have never inferred Cagle was a liberal, I stated he was weak and a wuss.

    As for the issues Reed issues statements on certain issues and Cagle follows months later. Cases in point:

    Medicaid Audit: Ralph Reed Date August 31, 2005
    http://www.ralphreed.com/v2/inthenews_details.asp?newsid=16

    Casey Cagle Date March 7, 2006
    http://www.caseycagle.com/news_detail.cfm?news_id=28

    Property Rights: Ralph Reed Date February 1, 2006
    http://www.ralphreed.com/v2/inthenews_details.asp?newsid=27

    Casey Cagle Date March 24, 2006
    http://www.caseycagle.com/news_events.cfm

    If Cagle is so concerned about only citizens residing in Georgia have access to taxpayer funded services then why did he vote against a bill in 2002 that would have help prevent that?
    A bill was introduced that would have required Georgia Driver’s Licenses to state that someone was a non citizen if they were not U.S. citizens. Cagle was one of two or three GOP State Senators that voted with 27 Democrats against that bill. Barnes was against the bill and Cagle did not want to anger Barnes.

    Reed will not sell out to the K Street lobbyists and no he has not done so.

    The real issue is electing someone we can count on to fight and stand their ground for Republican values and not waiver no matter who is in power. We need someone that will not be deterred by bad press and that will not allow their Democratic colleagues to “twist their arms” to support big government and pork spending. We need someone to stand strong and that is not Cagle.

  13. debbie0040 says:

    You don’t like a Reed supporter; much less a woman standing up to you so don’t give me that bs. You have not refuted nor provided proof of a thing. Reed’s position on issues is very well publicized.
    As for the attacks, Cagle drew first blood and Reed did wait for a time before he responded back. Did Reed ever call for a candidate to withdraw for the good of the party? Did he ever publicly make the statement that a candidate would drag down the GOP? I would love to see evidence of that. That was said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980.

    I have never inferred Cagle was a liberal, I stated he was weak and a wuss.

    As for the issues Reed issues statements on certain issues and Cagle follows months later. Cases in point:

    Medicaid Audit: Ralph Reed Date August 31, 2005

    Casey Cagle Date March 7, 2006

    Property Rights: Ralph Reed Date February 1, 2006

    Casey Cagle Date March 24, 2006

    If Cagle is so concerned about only citizens residing in Georgia have access to taxpayer funded services then why did he vote against a bill in 2002 that would have help prevent that?
    A bill was introduced that would have required Georgia Driver’s Licenses to state that someone was a non citizen if they were not U.S. citizens. Cagle was one of two or three GOP State Senators that voted with 27 Democrats against that bill. Barnes was against the bill and Cagle did not want to anger Barnes.

    Reed will not sell out to the K Street lobbyists and no he has not done so.

    The real issue is electing someone we can count on to fight and stand their ground for Republican values and not waiver no matter who is in power. We need someone that will not be deterred by bad press and that will not allow their Democratic colleagues to “twist their arms” to support big government and pork spending. We need someone to stand strong and that is not Cagle.

  14. Jimbo says:

    Women or men Howard Dawg? My wife drools over a Robert Redford/Brad Pitt look a like on Reed’s staff. His name is Chris.

  15. tobin smith says:

    I’m tired of that Clint Murphy ranting on here about how bad Reed is. We all know what Reed has accomplished for our cause. Cagle simply misses key votes and votes his own pocketbook. Reed has made money, but has not used elected office to do it. Cagle is as corrupt as they come chairing a banking committee while being in that business.

  16. Don\'t Make Me Ralph says:

    Oh Debbie, that was a doozy . . . “Ralph will not sell out to K Street lobbyists.” Channel One, China, Marianas Islands, cable monopolies . . . these are all interest which espouse conservative virtues, yes?

    Continuing with this “Ralph will not sell out to K Street” theme, umm, Ralph was one of 4 charter members of the K Street Project, which was created by the soon-to-be-out-the-door Representative Tom Delay in 1995, but really picked up steam in 1998.

    For the record, the other 2 members were:

    Grover Norquist (Ralph’s old CR buddy. All-around slimeball for hire who skimmed $ off the top of Abramoff’s pass-throughs to Ralph. He’s currently the subject of a Justice Department investigation, and had a starring role in the Indian Affairs investigation)

    Jack Abramoff (He’s been in the news a little bit lately)

    So, the idea that Ralph is not a wholly-owned subsidiary of K Street business interests is somewhat funny, as that is how he’s made his living. Ralph’s cash sure hasn’t come from win bonuses, if you know anything about his record.

    And Debbie, I’m a Republican, I worked on the Hill for conservative members of congress for many years, and I’ve also worked on a number of campaigns. That doesn’t mean I’m cool, that my vote counts twice, or that I’m better than anyone on this board. But it means my conservative street cred is unimpeachable, and it means that I can say–with conviction–that Ralph is a corporate slut who has/will sell his convictions to the highest bidder, even if it means attacking other Republicans (see: eLottery).

  17. Demonbeck says:

    Debbie,

    How does RR plan to work with the 21 State Senators who have publicly declared that they don’t want him as LG?

  18. debbie0040 says:

    Your credentials do not mean that you can predict the future. As far as your credentials working with members of Congress for years, Abramoff did that too. Delay’s aides that recently pleaded guilty to bribery worked for years on the Hill, too. Don’t even try to be superior with me . Show me proof of wrong doing by Ralph. Congressman Westmoreland currently serves in Congress and he supports Ralph. I guess you know more than Sen. Coverdell’s widow and all other Reed supporters. Carolyn Meadows supports Ralph and I DO trust her conservative credentials. An then there is longtime GOP activist Sue Everhart. Get real, you don’t like Ralph pure and simple. I don’t believe your conservative street cred is unimpeachable. Looks like you are a legend in your own mind.

  19. debbie0040 says:

    Give me a break Demonbeck, if Ralph wins the SS will work with him. Do you think they will risk the wrath of RR voters by not supporting him and working against him if he is the nominee. That would endanger their own re-election

  20. Jimbo says:

    I never ceased to be amazed by the arrogance and superiority of you Cagle supporters. You have the same elitist, “you are too uninformed to vote the right way”, “I am smarter than you so I will decide what is best” attitude the liberals have. It sickens me. They lose with that attitude and you will too.
    You don’t criticize Cagle about serving on the Senate Banking Committee.
    I don’t fault Reed for making money as a lobbyist. He was smart enough to realize that it takes money to run for office.

    The bottom line is that Reed can use his connections and help Georgia.

    I guess that you, Don’t make me mad Ralph said, know more than Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, Rudy Guiliani, Congresswoman Katherine Harris, Gov. Haley Barbour and others that stand behind Reed.

  21. Jimbo says:

    I never ceased to be amazed by the arrogance and superiority of you Cagle supporters. You have the same elitist, “you are too uninformed to vote the right way”, “I am smarter than you so I will decide what is best” attitude the liberals have. It sickens me. They lose with that attitude and you will too.
    You don’t criticize Cagle about serving on the Senate Banking Committee.
    I don’t fault Reed for making money as a lobbyist. He was smart enough to realize that it takes money to run for office.
    The bottom line is that Reed can use his connections and help Georgia.
    I guess that you, Don’t make me mad Ralph said, know more than Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, Rudy Guiliani, Congresswoman Katherine Harris, Gov. Haley Barbour

  22. jackson says:

    Debbie, Debbie, Debbie….Your comments make us all seem so rational, in-control, and smart. Thanks!

    To respond to a few of your over the top comments:

    –“You don’t like a Reed supporter; much less a woman standing up to you…”–
    1. What does my like/dislike of a Reed supporter have anything to do with the facts? It is pretty obvious you dont like Cagle or Cagle supporters, does that negate your arguements? 2. Again, where did I ever say anything about you being a woman? Trust me, I dont have a problem with a strong woman. Talk to my wife if you dont believe me.

    –“You have not refuted nor provided proof of a thing.”– Actually, you have made comments that Reed was being attacked unfairly by the liberal media. While the liberal media may be attacking him, so are a fair number of respected conservative. You float a bunch of names like if those people are supporting Ralph Reed, he must be okay, but then you disregard the same amount of prominent Republicans or Conservative leaders that dont support him. You cant ahve it both ways.

    –“Reed’s position on issues is very well publicized.”– Then why won’t he post them on his site? You said, –“the Cagle campaign has offered nothing other than attacks,”– and that is false. Ralph Reed wont even do interviews with the christian media.

    –“As for the attacks, Cagle drew first blood and Reed did wait for a time before he responded back.”– what is your point? Its like saying, “He took a cookie when he wasnt supposed to, so so did I.” They are both responsible for their actions. HOwever, I find nothing wrong with Republicans challenging other Republicans on thier beliefs, actions, stands, or character.

    –” Did he ever publicly make the statement that a candidate would drag down the GOP? I would love to see evidence of that.”– Sure. 1998. Mitch Skandalkis, his client, trashed the heck out of Clint day then went on to drag down the Republican ticket with a campaign based on race baiting and was sued false accusations (of which Skandalkis paid a ton of money to settle).

    –“That was said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980.” Sorry, that was not said of Reagan. Reagan was never a corporate account humping (ralphs words, not mine) lobbyist who sold out christians to line his pocket. While they share the same initials, Ralph Reed and Ronald Reagan are two very different people.

  23. Jimbo says:

    I never ceased to be amazed by the arrogance and superiority of you Cagle supporters. You have the same elitist, “you are too uninformed to vote the right way”, “I am smarter than you so I will decide what is best” attitude the liberals have. It sickens me. They lose with that attitude and you will too.
    You don’t criticize Cagle about serving on the Senate Banking Committee.
    I don’t fault Reed for making money as a lobbyist. He was smart enough to realize that it takes money to run for office.

    The bottom line is that Reed can use his connections and help Georgia.

  24. Jimbo says:

    I never ceased to be amazed by the arrogance and superiority of you Cagle supporters. You have the same elitist, “you are too uninformed to vote the right way”, “I am smarter than you so I will decide what is best” attitude the liberals have. It sickens me. They lose with that attitude and you will too.
    You don’t criticize Cagle about serving on the Senate Banking Committee.
    I don’t fault Reed for making money as a lobbyist. He was smart enough to realize that it takes money to run for office.

    The bottom line is that Reed can use his connections and help Georgia.

    I guess that you, Don’t make me mad Ralph said, know more than Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, Rudy Guiliani, Congresswoman Katherine Harris, Gov. Haley Barbour

  25. Beth says:

    Just to state to obvious.

    Ralph has his hardcore base wrapped up and they will support him no matter what. Casey is building his base. Most of the people are undecided and it is a fight for those votes.

    Makes it tough for Ralph with the huge cloud around him. That cloud will not go away.

    They are both going to work very hard and in the end:

    Cagle ’06

  26. Jimbo says:

    Debbie asked if Ralph ever asked someone to withdraw because they would hurt the ticket? You have not answered that. Tell me, I bet you supported Day and still have sour grapes because you got your a** kicked. You Cagle supporters sure are arrogant and have an I know better than you attitude like the liberals.

    It WAS said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980 that he would hurt the party. Ford’s camp said it in 1976 and in fact there was quite a floor fight at the GOP Convention over the nomination. It was said that Reagan was too conservative in 1980 and he would hurt the party. Want me to pull newsparper clippings for you?
    Get over your anger about Ralph. Seek mental health treatment.

  27. Jimbo says:

    Debbie asked if Ralph ever asked someone to withdraw because they would hurt the ticket? You have not answered that. Tell me, I bet you supported Day and still have sour grapes because you got your tail kicked. You Cagle supporters sure are arrogant and have an I know better than you attitude like the liberals.

    It WAS said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980 that he would hurt the party. Ford’s camp said it in 1976 and in fact there was quite a floor fight at the GOP Convention over the nomination. It was said that Reagan was too conservative in 1980 and he would hurt the party. Want me to pull newsparper clippings for you?
    Get over your anger about Ralph. Seek mental health treatment.

  28. debbie0040 says:

    Ralph has his base and will build on it with campaign ads featuring well known Republicans and celebrities. Those in the undecided column should have gravitated to Cagle with all the negative publicity about Ralph and they have not. Not a good sign for Cagle.

  29. Jimbo says:

    Debbie asked if Ralph ever asked someone to withdraw because they would hurt the ticket? You have not answered that. Tell me, I bet you supported Day and still have sour grapes because you got your rear kicked. You Cagle supporters sure are arrogant and have an I know better than you attitude like the liberals. IE: WE are the ones that should make the decision not the voters, etc.

    It WAS said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980 that he would hurt the party. Ford’s camp said it in 1976 and in fact there was quite a floor fight at the GOP Convention over the nomination. It was said that Reagan was too conservative in 1980 and he would hurt the party. Want me to pull newsparper clippings for you?
    Get over your anger about Ralph, don’t make me mad. Seek mental health treatment.

  30. Jack S says:

    Like others before her, Debbie’s posts amount to a Maverick/Silence ostrich re-enactment. When confronted with clear facts, the retort is always “Nu-uuhhh, no way, I don’t believe it, whaaaaaaaahhhhhh, I can’t hear you!”

    Please, Debbie, shut up. You’re more irritating than a 2 year old screaming in a restaurant.

  31. True Conservative says:

    Voters do not have to have proof. They jsut need a reasonable doubt. Sorry Debbie Ellis.

    BTW, glad your posting it was kinda dull after the Reed guys converted on here. You do by the way make us all look good by repeating your same points, over and over.

    John Kerry had a lot of celebrities supporting him also.

  32. Jimbo says:

    Debbie asked if Ralph ever asked someone to withdraw because they would hurt the ticket? You have not answered that. Tell me, I bet you supported Day and still have sour grapes because you got your a** kicked. You Cagle supporters sure are arrogant and have an I know better than you attitude like the liberals. You keep getting asked to provide proof of wrong doing by Ralph and you skirt the issue. You guys keep making the same accusations over and over again.

    True conservative, according to your logic, I guess that means W is guilty of lying about the wmds in Iraq and Cheney and Haliburton are in a conspiracy.
    It WAS said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980 that he would hurt the party. Ford’s camp said it in 1976 and in fact there was quite a floor fight at the GOP Convention over the nomination. It was said that Reagan was too conservative in 1980 and he would hurt the party. Want me to pull newsparper clippings for you?
    Get over your anger about Ralph. Seek mental health treatment. True Conservative why don’t you post under Brian, your real name?

  33. Jimbo says:

    Debbie asked if Ralph ever asked someone to withdraw because they would hurt the ticket? You have not answered that. Tell me, I bet you supported Day and still have sour grapes because you got your a** kicked. You Cagle supporters sure are arrogant and have an I know better than you attitude like the liberals. You keep getting asked to provide proof of wrong doing by Ralph and you skirt the issue

    True conservative, according to your logic, I guess that means W is guilty of lying about the wmds in Iraq and Cheney and Haliburton are in a conspiracy.
    It WAS said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980 that he would hurt the party. Ford’s camp said it in 1976 and in fact there was quite a floor fight at the GOP Convention over the nomination. It was said that Reagan was too conservative in 1980 and he would hurt the party. Want me to pull newsparper clippings for you?
    Get over your anger about Ralph. Seek mental health treatment. True Conservative why don’t you post under Brian, your real name?

  34. Jimbo says:

    Debbie asked if Ralph ever asked someone to withdraw because they would hurt the ticket? You have not answered that. Tell me, I bet you supported Day and still have sour grapes because you got your a** kicked. You Cagle supporters sure are arrogant and have an I know better than you attitude like the liberals. You keep getting asked to provide proof of wrong doing by Ralph and you skirt the issue

    True conservative, according to your logic, I guess that means W is guilty of lying about the wmds in Iraq and Cheney and Haliburton are in a conspiracy. Ralph does not just have celebrities endorsing him. He has people like Guliani, Zell Miller (VERY popular in Georgia) Sean Hannity, Newt,etc

    It WAS said of Reagan in both 1976 and 1980 that he would hurt the party. Ford’s camp said it in 1976 and in fact there was quite a floor fight at the GOP Convention over the nomination. It was said that Reagan was too conservative in 1980 and he would hurt the party. Want me to pull newsparper clippings for you?
    Get over your anger about Ralph. Seek mental health treatment.

  35. Jimbo says:

    Debbie asked if Ralph ever asked someone to withdraw because they would hurt the ticket? You have not answered that. You Cagle supporters sure are arrogant and have an I know better than you attitude like the liberals. You keep getting asked to provide proof of wrong doing by Ralph and you skirt the issue

    True conservative, according to your logic, I guess that means W is guilty of lying about the wmds in Iraq and Cheney and Haliburton are in a conspiracy.

  36. debbie0040 says:

    True Conservative/Brian, So no proof is needed.? I guess according to your logic then W is guilty of lying about wmds and he liberated Iraq for the oil and Cheney and Haliburton were part of the conspiracy. I keep repeating the same things because you guys keep making the same accusations over and over. You guys have been saying that Ralph will be indicted anyday now. That has not happened and it will not happen. You cry wolf enough times and people begin to ignore you.
    Jack S,
    I have not been confronted with any facts of the accusations Jackson made. I asked to see proof and I have not . Let’s see evidence of illegal activities by Ralph. Being a lobbyist is not illegal. Making money is not illegal by being a lobbyist. I could care less about Reed’s activities as a lobbyist. He broke no laws and he stopped a casino from opening. Had I been in his shoes, I would not have cared where the money came from to stop another casino from opening. Reed did nothing different than the majority of politicians do, including Republicans. You Jack don’t like being asked to provide proof. It is a entirely reasonable request, but then again some of you are not reasonable people. You are taking a play form the Bill/Hillary Clinton playbook. Say something enough times and people will begin to believe you. It will not work in this case.

  37. jackson says:

    –“I could care less about Reed’s activities as a lobbyist.” Guess character doesnt matter anymore. Oh well. Considering that Reed has spent more time as a lobbyist than at the Coalition, I would care.

    –“Reed did nothing different than the majority of politicians do”– Hmmm…so that makes it okay. I see your logic.

    –“I would not have cared where the money came from to stop another casino from opening.” I dont think anyone cares. Problem is Debbie, he lied about it. He knew where it was coming from, and lied. Plain and simple.

    –“You Jack don’t like being asked to provide proof.” — NOt that it would do any good. I just discected your last post, but what good did that do me?

    Problem is Debbie, no one here (that I know of) has a problem discussing this race with objective people. Your problem is that you throw venom at anyone that challenges Ralph Reed. If you have questions about Casey Cagle, fire away. But at least answer the challenges about Ralph. And, whining “that is not true” when it is a fact is not going to get anyone to support your cause.

  38. Bull Moose says:

    Reed has his solid core of 38-40% of the vote and they will never abandon him. In my view, that will be the peak of his support. He isn’t going to attract anymore votes beyond that.

    My issue with Ralph Reed has to do with his lack of candor and honesty as it relates to his relationship with Jack Abramoff and his business dealings with him. Had he been honest from the get go, I may not feel so strongly against him. However, it wasn’t until the US Senate started releasing evidence that Reed started getting honest. I’m sorry, that’s just wrong.

    However, I also don’t like the fact that Ralph Reed, as a campaign operative, attacked John McCain, our likely 2008 Presidential Nominee, FALSELY, for having a “black baby”, when it is a well known fact that John and Cindy McCain adopted a Bangledesh orphan as a baby.

    Certainly I am not the only one that doesn’t feel good about hiring one of Enron’s last lobbyists. Enron employees lost their life savings and Ralph Reed walked away with buckets of money.

    Given all of that, it doesn’t make any sense to nominate Ralph Reed for any office, especially when we have a stellar conservative candidate like State Senator Casey Cagle running.

    Casey Cagle has been an excellent representative of Gainesville, GA and will do a great job serving the state of Georgia as Lt. Governor.

  39. Bull Moose says:

    Maurice, you can give them proof, but they are blind to it… They just can’t read it. They will deny it. They’ll think you hacked into the US Senate Indian Affairs Committee website and created those emails yourself.

    I mean come on people, even Jack Abramoff didn’t trust Ralph Reed after working with him.

  40. Jimbo says:

    Jackson and Maurice, Debbie asked you to provide proof of illegal activities by Reed. You have not provided any. Just re-hashing the same thing about Reed’s lobbying efforts and Abramoff. Jackson you made some pretty serious charges against Reed and have not provided one shread of evidence to back them up. You have not dissected a thing. You and others keep on making the same boring wild accusations aand innuendo. Jackson dissected is spelled d-i-s-s-e-c-t-e-d.

    Debbie called Cagle a wuss. I think she was being lady like in not calling him what he really is. I will give a hint, it starts with p and ends with y.

    You guys keep pointing to the fact he lied. Cagle has lied and so has every other politician. You think it is acceptible for someone you support do so but not the other candidate. You need to research Cagle when Barnes was Governor.
    I don’t either of you would support Reed if it were not for the Abramoff scandal. This is just an excuse.

    It was said of Reagan in 1976 and 1980 that he would hurt the party and that did not happen. I will be happy to produce newspaper clippings to show that.

  41. debbie0040 says:

    There is no evidence of illegal activity. I repeat lobbying is not a crime. Haley Barbour used his lobbying contacts quite well in helping deal with Katrina. All politicians lie even Cagle. You should really check his record out under Gov. Barnes. I throw venom? That is really laughable. What do you think you guys do? Stop being hypocritical – you do the same exact thing. And Jackson dissect is spelled d-i-s-s-e-c-t and you have not dissected a thing. You guys just keep pointing to the Reed lied and Abramoff lobbying efforts. You would have issues with Reed even if were not for the whole Abramoff thing so just be honest and admit it. Where are the indictments and illegal activity?
    Where is the evidence of these charges that were made, huh?
    “Did you know that Ralph has hired Bill Clinton’s former counsel who is now one of the top white collar criminal defense lawyers in the United States to represent him?

    Are you aware that Ralph has been subpoenaed by a federal criminal probe?

    Are you aware that Ralph is also a target of investigations by two Republican-led U.S. Senate committees?

    Did you know that Ralph’s own campaign is paying his legal bills with funds contributed by donors?”

    It WAS said of Reagan in 1976 and in 1980 that he would hurt the Republican Party election chances. In fact, I found a 1988 New Orleans Time Picayune Convention Edition newspaper and there are articles that said if Bush 41 had any chance to win, he needed to distance himself from Reagan. That with the Iran Contra scandal, Reagan would hurt Bush. Reagan is one of the GREATEST Presidents our country has

    ever had and he did not always tell the truth.

  42. debbie0040 says:

    The emails are nothing new. I have sent emails that were contrued as meaning something entirely differently than what I had intended. I have already stated in previous posts that I think Reed turned a blind eye or was naive to the funding but had he not received the money another casino would be opened. There are not a lot of funding sources available to stop a casino. I have toured the reservation in Philadelphia, MS and they have other businesses besides the casinos. I don’t have a problem with where the money came from. We are walking down a slippery slope when accusations start flying about Reed lied. I give him the benefit of the the doubt and defend him just like I do with Gov. Perdue about the whole flag issue and the flaggers with their “Sonny Lied’ signs. At least I am consistent.

  43. larry smith says:

    OK, Debbie, I’ll bite. Arguing with you is amusing if nothing else.

    I am pasting below the precise quote from one of several newspaper stories covering Ralph’s criminal defense attorney. In fact, since you’re such a fan of Iran-Contra and Reagan, you may be interested to know this guy also prosecuted Ronald Reagan before he worked in the Clinton White House.

    He’s now Ralph Reed’s lawyer. Still think I’m lying?

    “Reed has taken time out from his political campaign to hire noted Washington criminal defense attorney Neil Eggleston to sort out his myriad problems. Interestingly, Eggleston’s resume indicates close ties with Democrats. The attorney served as White House associate counsel to President Clinton in 1993-94 and as deputy chief counsel of the House Iran/Contra Investigation Committee in 1987. His private practice focuses on white-collar criminal defense and cases involving Securities and Exchange Commission matters.”

  44. Maurice Atkinson says:

    Ok,,, so the whole media (Christian, Conservative, Liberal and Business Publications) are out to get Ralph?

    And, Cagle is weak kneed caving at every corner? The man has a 12 year record that y’all have thrown darts at a missed vote and on one issue he voted different than you would have liked. hmmm

    The facts don’t matter only rationalizations. So,,, if you ever see smoke coming from a home (where it normally would not be smoking ie. fireplace, please call the fire department. Usually that means there is some serious trouble and the homeowner would be greatly appreciative.

  45. Maurice Atkinson says:

    I would prefer not to vote for someone who has a pattern of not telling the truth…

  46. jackson says:

    Like I said, waste of time with Debbie. She still wont believe you. Her arguements are not even consistent with the normal rhetorical process.

    THanks Debbie for the spelling help. Now that I know you are reading my posts, the next step is actually responding to the points and facts that I lay out. If you can do that, you will be on the way to be about to at least making coherent thoughts.

    Until then, you are not longer worth my time. That is, unless i misspell something, then I am going to need your assitance.

    For all others who may have read my posts: please accept my deepest apologies for my previous spelling error. I know that on a blog, all words are expected to be spelled correctly and all language is expected to be in its proper form. One can only hope to be like Debbie and spell their words right.

  47. debbie0040 says:

    Larry, I would like to see the publications, time and dates it appeared in so I can check it out. That should not be too hard for you since you have fresh quotes. I should be able to do research from the info given in the articles. A web link would be great. What about your other accusations?

    Maurice, so you would not vote for someone that lied?

    There are more issues I disagree with Cagle on and Cagle is weak. I have never said he caves at every corner, just has a record of caving in when things get tough. Just ask some of the teachers that attended a town hall meeting in Hall County to discuss Barnes’s Education Package. Look at his scorecard under Barnes. Cagle was one of the lowest in the Senate, but that shows they caved in under Barnes. Cagle’s was 64 %. Compare that to House Member Bobby Franklin with a 41 %. I want someone I can count on to stand their ground no matter who is in power. Bobby Franklin is a great conservative legislator that is independent and he stands his ground and fights.

  48. debbie0040 says:

    Jackson , I understand . My point in bringing it up to you is that others have done so with me and I am not the only one that does so. It is easy to make spelling mistakes .

  49. debbie0040 says:

    Jackson, I have responded to you. You might not have liked my answers because I did not see things your way and we disgree about Reed’s lobbying activities. I don’t take anyone’s word for anything, I want proof and evidence and I do investigate. Please do me the courtesy of pointing out how my arguments are not consistent. I am consistent. I give officials the benefit of the doubt. You only give certain people you support the benefit of the doubt and hold those you don’t support to a higher standard.

  50. Jimbo says:

    You Cagle supporters are really an arrogant bunch. I have not seen any of you presenting arguments to change my mind about Reed. I have seen some off the wall accusations being leveled at Reed and you have not been able to provide backup. I could care less about the lobbyist efforts by Reed. How many of you do not have lobbyists friends? The issue is strong leadership, not whether or not someone lied or is trustworthy. You ask some of the Southern Heritage group and they will tell you they don’t think Gov. Perdue is trustworthy.
    You apply different standards to those you support and to those you do not support.

  51. Bill Simon says:

    Debbie, perhaps looking at “scorecards” that you don’t know the entire base of legislation on is misleading you.

    I don’t recall all of the legislation under Barnes, but anything in the 60s is pretty low. Maybe not as low as Bobby Franklin, but, then again, Bobby tends to vote for a lot of self-destructive things, and against items which may have actually been good legislation.

  52. larry smith says:

    Debbie,

    I am not going to sit here all day responding to petulant requests that I use Google for you.

    Here’s a tip … take the text I posted, paste it into the search engine, and press “find.”

    It is very frustrating to be called a liar by someone who doesn’t have the initiative to do something this simple to check facts. I am not trying to be a jerk, but c’mon … this is ridiculous.

    I realize confronting the truth can be difficult in some cases and downright traumatizing in others. But, the reality is that Ralph has been selectively feeding you facts to make you dance like a puppet on a string. He is counting on you not taking the time to get the truth.

  53. debbie0040 says:

    This may come as a shock to you, but Ralph has not been feeding me anything. I looked up Cagle’s record in the AJC archives months ago. I have an account there. Want me to provide proof? My boyfriend was a teacher in Hall County during the Barnes regime and he is the ONE that gave me a first hand account of the town hall meeting and Cagle. His opinion of Cagle is that he caves in and is basically worthless. I was trying to decide between Ralph and Cagle and talked to him , Sue Everhart and several others and formed my choice of whom I would support. Up until last year, I had never even met Ralph Reed. Cagle is the one that will dance like a puppet on a string.

    I already had done a google search and could see why you did not want to post the source. It was not a news story at all but a column by Bill Shipp. It must be noted no proof was provided in the column that Reed had hired him, just speculation being advanced by Shipp. Shipp is not a fan of Perdue’s either. I was correct in wanting to look at the context and who wrote the column. It appeared as a column written by him the Gwinnett Daily Post on 5-22-05 and appeared as a column in other publications. Rumors are easily started and people believe them as fact. I continue to ask for proof in the other accusations that Larry made. Only a fool would believe everything that was written in a newspaper. Remember Richard Jewell and the Olympic Park bombing?

    You Cagle supporters are really an arrogant bunch and are under the mistaken opinion that Reed supporters are mind numb robots or can’t think for ourselves or will just blindly follow him and that is absolutely false . I have not seen any of
    you presenting arguments to change my mind about Reed. I have seen some
    off the wall accusations being leveled at Reed and you have not been able to provide backup. I could care less about the lobbyist efforts by Reed. How many of you do not have lobbyists friends? The issue is strong leadership.
    The bottom line is most voters know that politicians will lie from time to time. You ask some of the Southern Heritage group and they will tell you they don’t think Perdue is trustworthy but I do believe the Governor is very trustworthy.

  54. larry smith says:

    Debbie,

    I’m not going to play this nutty game where I send you proof, and then you dismiss it as a lie, and I look for more.

    What do you want, an oath signed in blood from this guy saying he’s Ralph’s lawyer? It’s been printed in over a dozen publications, not just Shipp’s column, and not once has Ralph taken issue with it.

    It’s no wonder people get some laughs at your expense … you’re making a mockery of yourself.

  55. debbie0040 says:

    I did a google search for the attorney also. I saw no articles. The only thing I saw was that column by Shipp and it was printed in several other publications. Please send me the names of the publications and authors that this has appeared in. I am very sorry, but I am not going to just take your word for it. I want to see it myself.

    You made three other accusations as well. I keep requesting proof and you ignore it.

  56. Philly says:

    Maurice, I guess there are a lot of mind numb robots out there because we don’t just assume if we have read it in a newpaper then it must be true. Excuse us if we wants EVIDENCE.

  57. debbie0040 says:

    Maurice, you must think you guys are some kind of gods that no one should question or ask for proof of your accusations. Larry made some pretty serious accusations and so far he has only attempted to prove one and that was not proven. That was the least serious of the accusations he made. You need to come off of Mt. Olympus.

  58. larry smith says:

    Debbie,

    See articles above. There are numerous others.

    When you admit that I was telling the truth about the lawyer and apologize, then I will provide proof on the other points.

    Otherwise, I’m not going to waste my time.

  59. debbie0040 says:

    Larry, the Athens article was the column written by Shipp. The Washingtonian is a gossip column and you use Answers.com as a credible source. They derived that article from Wikipedia and users can post stuff on that. In fact there was something in the news about erroneous postings on their site being posted by a rival. This disclaimer was on the answers.com article

    “This entry is from Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia. It may not have been reviewed by professional editors (see full disclaimer) ”

    The http://rogerailes.blogspot.com/2005_04_17_rogerailes_archive.html said they requested Reed’s records. They did not have to subpoena his records. He turned them over willingly. I have never denied that he turned his records over but that is different than Reed being subpoenaed himself which is what you said. That was almost a year ago, where are the indictments? Tell me when is Reed going to be charged with a crime. Reed would have been crazy not to hire an attorney regarding the records. Give me a break. I can’t wait to see your proof on the other accusations. It is probably the same type of convoluted crap as this is. That is why you did not present your so called proof at the beginning, you knew it would be scrutinized and torn apart.

    Reed is not a target of two Senate Committees . They investigated him as part of the whole Indian Tribe Abramoff thing. I guess using your logic, the Dems could say Bush is part of a Senate Commitee criminal investigation or that Cheney is. There were a lot of officials investigated as part of that. Again I ask, where are the indictments?
    You deliberately try to mislead.

  60. larry smith says:

    Debbie,

    See articles above. There are numerous others.

    When you admit that I was telling the truth about the lawyer and apologize, then I will provide proof on the other points.

    Otherwise, I’m not going to waste my time.

  61. debbie0040 says:

    I will find out from the Reed campaign if it is true or not. The lawyer thing was not the main thing. I would hope Reed would be smart enough to have an attorney. As for the other accusations, you deliberately attempted to mislead as to illegal wrong doing and illegal activity on Reed’s part and that is not true. I have repeatedly asked where is the evidence of Reed breaking the law?

    You see my rebuttal on those articles.

    I am extremely upset about the Senate Compromise Immigration Package. Some of the GOP Senators are gutless wonders and I am sick of elected officials like them that fold under pressure. I had co-workers watching the press conference in our company break room. They are independent but vote GOP 90 % of the time. Their statement after watching the press conference was that the Libertarian Party looks better and better and they are tired of the Republicans giving in all the time. That is why I support Reed. Cagle folds under pressure.

  62. larry smith says:

    Debbie,

    See articles above. There are numerous others.

    When you admit that I was telling the truth regarding the lawyer and apologize, then I will provide proof on the other points.

    Otherwise, I’m not going to waste my time.

  63. Lets change the subject a little. Any body find it interesting that the Georgia GOP under Ralph Reed did not help Steve Stancil in his Lt Gov race vs Mark Taylor in 2002. Was this part of the RR plan?

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