McCain’s ANTI-Torture bill passes

I am linking here to several articles articulating that agreement has been reached by the White House and Senator McCain on the issue of torture and prisoners of war. President Bush and Senator McCain agreed collectively that this should be the law of the land for America and our military. Read article here.

The House agreed to the bill, HR 2863 by a vote of 308 to 122. Some of those 122 votes against the measure included 8 Members of Georgia’s illustrious Congressional Delegation. John Linder, Nathan Deal, Phil Gingrey, Jack Kingston, Lynn Westmoreland, Charlie Norwood, Jim Marshall, and Tom Price voted against this measure. That is a shame and I hope that there disrespect for the principles of this country are remembered.

The US Senate had previously voted in favor of Senator McCain’s bill by a vote of 90 (IN FAVOR) to 9 (AGAINST). THANK GOODNESS FOR SENATORS CHAMBLISS AND ISAKSON WHO BOTH VOTED IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL! Read the article from the Washington Post here.

23 comments

  1. Erick says:

    Over at RedState we’ve had a long discussion about this bill. One of our editors wrote a stinging piece about it, which Rush Limbaugh picked up on and read.

  2. GAWire says:

    Two questions to consider:

    1. What were the differences b/t the House and Senate versions of this Bill?

    2. Why do you think it is that the majority of GA’s Members disaggreed with McCain on this? Do you think they just want to wontonly torture prisoners, or is there perhaps more to this story than what the Post, and the NY Times have reported?

  3. Bull Moose says:

    Well the President agrees. Senator Chambliss and Senator Isakson agreed.

    America is a democracy and a shining beacon of light upon America. To condone terroristic acts for any reason as treatment of prisoners diminishes America’s international standing.

    I’m glad that the prevailing wisdom on this turned out to be what it is.

  4. Tater Tate says:

    They are pandering. McCain’s own military experience is tarnished by this. Terrorists are not in the uniform of a country, but are combatants who have no respect for life and deserve no special treatment. Torture all you will if it will save American lives.

    I will shake the hands of the members of our delegation who voted against this. Shame on our Senators.

  5. Bull Moose says:

    Tater Tate you are stupid. How does being a POW tarnish McCain’s service to this country? Are you really so ignorant to make that statement?

    Whatever Tater Tate… It’s a matter of principle — American principles. If you will use your brain and common sense, there is a difference between the two and our military and this legislation recognizes that…

    I think it is time for term limits. The House needs new leadership.

  6. Tater Tate says:

    Merry Christmas to you too Bull.

    I stand by my low opinion of McCain. I think he is less of a hero for this. I hate it when Republicans vote for political correctness.

  7. Ben King says:

    I’m intrigued by Marshall’s vote against this bill, frankly. Just remember that the next time someone here throws out the “liberal” card just because he’s a Democrat.

  8. Bill Simon says:

    Tater, do you think that just because it is the Christmas season that people should give you a “by” on your commentary? You’re a putz if you think that, and Merry Christmas to you and anyone else who thinks like you!

  9. Booray says:

    I hate to dip into pop culture to justify a political point, but the TV show “24” changed my view on this.

    Put yourself in the position you see often in that show: eyeball to eyeball with someone who has information about the imminent detonation of a dirty bomb in, say, downtown Atlanta.

    Anyone who thinks he wouldn’t pull out that guys fingernails to keep a dirty bomb from killing his wife, his kids, or 50,000 other people is without both a heart and balls.

    Booray Bussey

  10. larry smith says:

    Tater,

    How many years did you spend locked in a cage as a POW?

    I’ll answer that question for you … you’ve never been anywhere near a shot fired in anger, and the extent of your patriotism is probably standing up for the Star-Spangled Banner at a ball game.

    I dare you to walk into any American Legion hall in the country and tell the guys there that McCain is “less of a hero.”

    You’re really a piece of crap, man.

  11. Bull Moose says:

    Okay, folks, in case you haven’t already realized it — the worst of the worst of these terrorists are already willing to die. A little torture is nothing. Plus, if you haven’t realized it, most of the innacurate information garnered recently has come from these people making it up as a result of torture.

    Exercise a small piece of common sense and you’ll realize that this legislation only restates a strong principle of our democracy. As the last remaining Super Power, we put ourselves out there as an example to the rest of the world. Again and again we put forth that ensuring a democracy is a cause worth fighting for, yet we ourselves are willing to compromise and accept less on from our own government?

    We are not a nation without laws. We are a nation built upon laws and the rules of order and decency. When we start sacrificing our principles in order to achieve some sort of perceived gain, then we are truly on the decline part of our time as a Super Power.

    As such, I am glad that the President of the United States, Senator John McCain, and a Super Majority of both the House and Senate, both Republicans and Democrats agreed that there is no place for torture.

    It does trouble me that there are those who are so willing to compromise our values and principles, and as such those who voted against outlawing torture put every single American member of the military at risk.

    In my book and mind, we are the United States of America and we are still better than our enemies.

  12. Eddie T says:

    Tater, Booray, you both miss one pretty important distinction between real life and 24–in real life, this torture stuff just doesn’t work. Study after study, time after time proves that torture only makes people tell you the information they think you want to hear. In fact, official military policy agrees that torture is a poor means of extracting information.

    So if it doesn’t, what’s the point, except to make us feel like we’re Jack Bauer?

    And is feeling like Jack Bauer worth diminishing our reputation throughout the world, the sacrificing of core American values, and providing justification for the assholes that want to do this to us?

    Torturing them —> torturing us. And I’m not just talking about terrorists here, but rogue nations, as well. What, then, becomes our justification to say to the world that torture in any case (especially against our own troops–the ones you claim to support so wholeheartedly, except for when they disagree with you) is wrong?

  13. Booray says:

    Actually, the stuff I’ve read says that torture will end up extracting the truth, because the guy knows you can still lay the wood to his ass and he knows you’re going to find out if he is lying.

    I don’t get it where people say “American values” prevent us from torturing terrorists (not enemy soliders obeying the rules of war – terrorists who do not), in extreme circumstances, where massive loss of life is at risk.

    The rules must have exceptions in situations like that.

    Also – anyone who thinks they are torturing us because we are torturing them is married to Pollyanna. That’s the same kind of logic that says they attacked us on 9/11 because we deserved it.

    Booray Bussey

  14. Erick says:

    We don’t torture people and we defame the good military we have by accusing them of torture. Sure, a few soliders did some bad things. They were arrested, court martialed, and jailed or tossed. But our military does not torture and we already have laws and UN treaties to our name doing what this law does. Good for the Georgia House members for showing some spine.

  15. Booray says:

    Erick,

    I respectfully disagree. CIA and others are clearly skirting the rules (at least a strict interpretation of them). I respect the House members for standing up to the idea we have to unilaterally disarm ourselves while the bad guys can do anything they want.

    We do not need to be as bad as them or as dirty as them – but sometimes you have to resort to extreme measures to save lives. Keeping an idea of being “better than your enemies” is noble but not realistic in every case.

    Like I said – anyone who says they wouldn’t pull the fingernails out of someone with imminent knowledge of an attack on American families is without a heart and balls. That’s the real world.

    Booray Bussey

  16. buzzbrockway says:

    It seems to me the argument is over how to define torture. Few Americans support torture, and the military and CIA developed techniques to interrogate without torturing. Amnesty Int. and others say we routinely torture and apparently McCain agrees. I hope this bill is not a mistake, but I fear the far left will use this to claim torture for routine matters.

  17. Bull Moose says:

    The Members of the Georgia House who voted for this bill are showing why they are still Members of the House and not the Senate or Governor or anything else.

  18. Bill Simon says:

    Erick, do you really think the Abu Graibe (sp?) thing was all due to a couple of privates and other lower-level specialists having fun?

    Iraq wasn’t known for having PetSmart locations, so, where the hell did Lyndie England get a dog collar and a leash? Is this standard gear pack material in today’s military?

    No, it’s standard issue stuff for the CIA School of Pranks and Prisoner Abuse. Unless this is on the standard checklist for military operations: let’s see…camoflauge pants, check…regulation boots, check…M-16, check…MREs, check…one regulation dog collar and leash, check…okay, Mom and Dad! I’m ready to go to Iraq!

  19. UGA Wins 2005 says:

    Tater nails the issue here, as usual.

    You might want to check again, both of our Senators voted against McCain in an earlier version of this bill, and unless another vote has been taken in the Senate, they are on record as voting no. I talked to Isakson about it and thanked him for voting that way.

    Now they have been hung out to dry by a spineless President. He said he would veto the defense bill if it contained this provision. It does and he wont. He has never vetoed anything from this big spending congress.

    Bush’s record of being a wimp is endless: He is spineless because American torture consists of putting panties over the head of brutal, sadistic murderers. Spineless because the PC culture is so strong at Gitmo that our guards cant even respond when sh**, urine and sperm are hurled onto their persons by the inmates. Spineless because our military is being forced to fight with one and a half hands tied behind their backs.

    Now McCain who fancies himself as President actually wrests away from Bush the power to decide what the US Military will do.

    McCain will NEVER get my vote. Never.

    GW, your dad said it best and you learned well: “Read my lips………” Wait! Dont read my lips.

  20. Booray says:

    UGA – you are speaking the truth. Never in the history of man has a nation done so much for other nations, obeyed the rules so much better than its enemies, and still somehow gets labeled the bad guy.

    That is because this is not about good-faith critics trying to improve our behavior. We will never, ever satisfy our critics in the global left movement. Now that we have caved in on “torture” they’ll move on to something else until they achieve their ultimate objective – electing another globalist, left-of-center president like Clinton who will sign up to their Internationational Court of Justice and other such utopian fantasies.

    They’ll get their chance in 3 years with Hillary. God help us if we don’t have the balls as a nation to stand up to this left-wing brow beating and demand that our country do what it takes within reason to defend ourselves.

    Booray Bussey

  21. Booray says:

    Just so you lefties don’t claim I’m making it up about the globalist, mostly Euro leftist movement against the US, I offer the following quote taken directly from the BBC website during the run-up to the Iraq war:

    Graham Watson, leader of the Liberal Democrats in the European Parliament, said the disarray showed that Europe needed a single seat at the United Nations, and that this would help it to “constrain the unfettered exercise of American power.”
    “If the EU had one vote Germany, France, Britain and Spain would have to agree and speak with one voice. Europe’s world view would prevail.”

    This ain’t about torture – it’s about power.

    Booray

  22. Bull Moose says:

    WRONG — Isakson and Chambliss voted for the McCain language. Only 7 Members of the US Senate voted against McCain.

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